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Speaker 1: This is Tony Pike since he three sixty about Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts

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Speaker 1: all sincey all day. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Hello, welcome in our number two of Tony Pike

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Speaker 2: Sincy three to sixty here on ESPN fifteen thirty. My

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Speaker 2: name is Austin Elmore. No big fella today, Tone is out.

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Speaker 2: He'll be back tomorrow. One hour from right now, we

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Speaker 2: talked to Keegan Nickoson from Bearcat Journal dot com. Keegan

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Speaker 2: just now talking of tweeting about a couple of Bearcat

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Speaker 2: offensive linemen that have decided to come back for next year.

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Speaker 2: We'll get an update on the transfer portal happenings and

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Speaker 2: all that with the Bearcats, what happened last night on

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Speaker 2: the hardwood as well. But right now we keep talking

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Speaker 2: football with a guy that I can't believe I just

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Speaker 2: now thought of this. I'm gonna start calling him this

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Speaker 2: from here on out. Johnny Football. John Sheeran from A

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Speaker 2: to Z Sports covering the Cincinnati Bengals. Hi, Johnny Football,

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Speaker 2: how are you?

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Speaker 3: I feel like we could worship this? There was kind

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Speaker 3: of the stigma with that name you know, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: someone else had it and he got kind of embarrassed

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Speaker 3: by the Bengals, and I kind of embarrassed the Bengals

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Speaker 3: and said the other way around.

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Speaker 2: So you know, uh, yeah, well you could be the

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Speaker 2: reason for change with the Johnny football nickname. We'll work

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Speaker 2: on it. We'll work on it. What do you make

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Speaker 2: of the last two weeks of the Joe Burrow narrative

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Speaker 2: about him and his future and not seeing eye to

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Speaker 2: eye with the organization and what he said yesterday and

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Speaker 2: last week sum it all up for me? What's your

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Speaker 2: general feeling and consensus about Joe Burrow in his relationship

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Speaker 2: with the Bengals right now?

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Speaker 3: We love hearing Joe talk because he is very calculated

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Speaker 3: about what he says, and he's said that I think

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Speaker 3: forbade him. But typically when he says something of substance,

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Speaker 3: it's because he means it. And also he's just he's

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Speaker 3: just a very smart individual, so he think it's about

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Speaker 3: more than just what is directly in front of him.

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Speaker 3: And of course, you know, in the media nowadays, you

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Speaker 3: typically only look at what's right in front of you,

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Speaker 3: and that's what generates the headlines. Right So when Joe

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Speaker 3: is thinking about a lot of things beyond just the

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Speaker 3: last week or so of football, and it sounds like, oh,

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Speaker 3: he's thinking very big picture and it doesn't sound very good.

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Speaker 3: It leads to I think a lot of the reactions

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Speaker 3: that we've seen in the past couple of weeks. But

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Speaker 3: I think when you have to try to figure out

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Speaker 3: what is going on in his mind, you have to

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Speaker 3: think about every single angle, from every single avenue, about

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Speaker 3: what everything that is encapsuling what it could possibly be

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Speaker 3: going through his mind right now, which is again coming

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Speaker 3: back from another injury, and thinking about how long he's

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Speaker 3: capable of playing, how long he wants to play, and

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Speaker 3: how that all of that ambition and planning is being

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Speaker 3: you know, deterred by what has happened over the past

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Speaker 3: handful of months here on top of being on a

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Speaker 3: team that, just like he says, is a bad football

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Speaker 3: team that hasn't done enough and needs to continue doing

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Speaker 3: things differently and it needs to continue evolving and in

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Speaker 3: his own.

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Speaker 4: Words, thinking outside the box.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's everything from just him thinking about

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Speaker 3: his own ability, his own durability, his mortality in the game,

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Speaker 3: but also where he stands with this team and what

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Speaker 3: the team needs to do going forward around him, So

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Speaker 3: it's everything. It's not just like, oh, like he's thinking

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Speaker 3: about hanging it up and leaving the Bengals. No, Like,

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Speaker 3: there's thoughts about that that naturally pop up when you're

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Speaker 3: thinking about your futuring, your career and everything like that.

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Speaker 3: But I think so to boil it down to just

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Speaker 3: one or two things is not doing a justice to

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Speaker 3: someone who clearly thinks about a lot more than that.

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Speaker 5: Do you think he should play the final three games?

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Speaker 3: I think there's a reason too, because of how he

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Speaker 3: played this past week. I think it would be not

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Speaker 3: the greatest for his psyche to enter the offseason after

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Speaker 3: just having one of the worst games of his career,

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Speaker 3: especially considering the fact that he just hasn't played that

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Speaker 3: much this year.

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Speaker 4: I think having him, giving him.

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Speaker 3: The opportunity to at least enter the actual offseason on

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Speaker 3: somewhat of a hind note, can be kind of good

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Speaker 3: for him, because if he only played what four or

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Speaker 3: five games this year, and again one of them was

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Speaker 3: terrible and they eliminated them for the playoffs, I would

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Speaker 3: imagine that wouldn't be necessarily the best for his mental health,

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Speaker 3: especially because that's been such topic of conversation for over

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Speaker 3: the past ten days or so, So.

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Speaker 4: I think it was valuing him.

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Speaker 3: Playing and if you want to talk about like draft

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Speaker 3: positioning and keeping him healthy, like he needs to prove

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Speaker 3: that he can stay healthy. And I think regardless of

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Speaker 3: whoever's the quarterback for the Bengals right now, they're not

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Speaker 3: a guaranteed to win or lose any of these games

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Speaker 3: just because of the verst of the team around the

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Speaker 3: quarter quarterback position.

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Speaker 2: When you saw the report this week from Paul Danner

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Speaker 2: Junior that Zach Taylor actually had two years remaining on

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Speaker 2: his deal and that Duke Tobin and Al Golden are

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Speaker 2: also unlikely to be let go, what was your reaction

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Speaker 2: and how does that shape your view of this upcoming offseason.

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Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, the Bengals are.

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Speaker 3: They may not be exactly the same organization as they

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Speaker 3: were loose, but they're still the organization. It's not going

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Speaker 3: to fire head coach with two years left of guaranteed

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Speaker 3: salary left on his deal. That it was a complete

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Speaker 3: game changer in my opinion about Zach's job security and

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Speaker 3: the fact that it probably hasn't been questioned at all

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Speaker 3: this year and that's it's always about the same around,

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Speaker 3: you know, when the Bengals are bad and it's entering December,

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Speaker 3: like yeah, like maybe there's some conversation about the head coach,

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Speaker 3: but in reality, the front office doesn't really see it

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Speaker 3: like that at this point in time, And that was

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Speaker 3: kind of the sentiment this year. But hearing that in

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Speaker 3: the fact that he has again two years left of guaranteed,

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Speaker 3: like it doesn't matter, Like he could be coaching somewhere

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Speaker 3: else in twenty twenty seven, the Bengals would still to

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Speaker 3: be paying him the salary that they owe him and

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Speaker 3: that they gave him.

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Speaker 4: I guess under the table.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 3: I don't like Again, it's not standard practice for teams

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Speaker 3: to have officially announce these contracts. Sometimes it does kind

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Speaker 3: of go under the radar. An example brought to me,

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Speaker 3: brought to my attention over the past school days, the

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Speaker 3: Green Bay Packers extended Matteli Sluurer and a GM and

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Speaker 3: their vice president of football operations really early in the

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two offseason, and it didn't get reported on

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Speaker 3: it until July, like during their annual meeting with the

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Speaker 3: media and everything like that. So sometimes it does happen,

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Speaker 3: but again, like if you're the Bengals and you just

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Speaker 3: came off with back to back games, the championship games,

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Speaker 3: the sentiment of round Zac kid, it was so high. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't really know why they wouldn't announce whether it

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Speaker 3: was a separate five year extension or just a one

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Speaker 3: year extension on top of the five year contract that

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Speaker 3: he signed in twenty twenty two. It doesn't make a

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Speaker 3: lot of sense to me why they kept that a secret.

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Speaker 3: And I can't imagine that because they had the last

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Speaker 3: three years unfolded. Maybe it wasn't their best interest and.

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Speaker 4: I let that be known.

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Speaker 3: But it definitely did change how I view, like what's

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Speaker 3: going to happen in this offseason, because again I just.

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Speaker 4: Don't think they're gonna fire head coach with two years

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Speaker 4: left on the deal.

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Speaker 2: What did you make of the way Zach talked about

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Speaker 2: it yesterday and not wanting to talk about.

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Speaker 3: It, and he can say that it's going to make

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Speaker 3: any of the situation better. I understand him saying like

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to comment on it because he wants

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Speaker 3: to continue the solution that like, oh, like I'm coaching

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Speaker 3: for my job. We know you're not man like it

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Speaker 3: is what it is. Like, that's just not how it's

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Speaker 3: organization goes. And I appreciate the media for still pushing

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Speaker 3: it regardless, because at the end of the day, he

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Speaker 3: is again the only vessel of information that we can

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Speaker 3: that we can garner any information from with this organization

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Speaker 3: because the other powers that be are silent for three

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty three days of the year. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's unfortunate that we can't that anyone in the media

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Speaker 3: can't talk to the people who actually employ Zach and

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Speaker 3: everything has to come through him. And it was kind

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Speaker 3: of a weird shippy respond to me like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 3: sorry that you can't talk to them, Like yeah, dude,

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Speaker 3: Like it is unfortunate. That's the problem with the lack

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Speaker 3: of transparency with this organization, And yeah, it does. It

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Speaker 3: is unfortunate that Zach is being put into the situation

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Speaker 3: sometimes there is all that responsibility that he has as

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Speaker 3: that coach and this doesn't seem like something that should

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Speaker 3: be his responsibility to talk about his job security. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think it just speaks to the lack of transparency

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Speaker 3: in the fact that there are some definitely things that

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Speaker 3: need to change in which the way that this organization runs.

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Speaker 2: Talking to John Sheeran ad Is the Sports I made

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Speaker 2: the point earlier. I think there's a lot of similarities

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Speaker 2: in this upcoming off season to the ones following the

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty season in terms of cap space, in terms

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Speaker 2: of needs and the way that they did kind of

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Speaker 2: go outside the box and signing a big free agent class,

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Speaker 2: trading for BJ Hill, extending Sam Hubbard to try to

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Speaker 2: build some veteran presence and some talent on the defensive

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Speaker 2: side of the ball. You mentioned outside the box. Thinking

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Speaker 2: for this offseason, what's an example of something that they

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Speaker 2: could do. Do you agree that it's similar to the

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Speaker 2: season following the off season following the twenty twenty year,

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Speaker 2: and do you feel like they can actually turn this

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Speaker 2: around in one off season based off of what they

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Speaker 2: have at their disposal.

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Speaker 3: But it just depends on how aggressive they want to

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Speaker 3: go about it. I think they, I mean, we know

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Speaker 3: this by heart, right, they limit themselves in which how

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Speaker 3: much better that they can get a certain period of

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Speaker 3: time because they like to take things in terms of

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Speaker 3: value opportunities, in terms of sometimes the right player, it

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Speaker 3: comes at a greater constant what they're willing to end

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Speaker 3: up paint up, so they ended up sacrificing the quality

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Speaker 3: of players that they go after. And that's beyond just

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Speaker 3: the draft is also in a free agency. I think

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Speaker 3: if they want to identify what they need, then then

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Speaker 3: the evolution of thinking outside of the box in this

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Speaker 3: case is to not letting anything stopping them from going

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Speaker 3: after and getting the players that whatever Out Golden, whoever

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Speaker 3: out Golden wants, with, whoever Zach Taylor wants, whoever Duke

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Speaker 3: Tobin wants, whoever. If you identify that the coaches in

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Speaker 3: the personnal department are not the issue here and it

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Speaker 3: is a player and a roster problem, then make sure

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Speaker 3: that nothing is holding you back from getting the roster as.

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Speaker 4: Good as it needs to be.

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Speaker 3: And that was definitely an issue last year in which

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Speaker 3: they weren't aggressive enough. They were sitting on their hands

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Speaker 3: in the first week of free agency because half of

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Speaker 3: the personal department was figuring out how to extend Jamar

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Speaker 3: Chase and Teggans the contracts that should have been signed

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Speaker 3: months prior to freegency even beginning of the first place.

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Speaker 3: So that cannot be repeated again. They need to be

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Speaker 3: extremely more active and aggressive in freegency and not letting

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Speaker 3: anything hold them back, and if that means that you're

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Speaker 3: sacrificing your principles of guaranteed money and guarantee future salaries

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Speaker 3: and contracts, so be it. That is the outside of

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Speaker 3: the box thinking that they need if they're not going

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Speaker 3: to pin any of this on the on the actual

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Speaker 3: decision makers of this.

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Speaker 2: Organization when it comes to these final three games and

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Speaker 2: looking for some of the answers to you know, the

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Speaker 2: questions of the offseason. What exactly are you looking for

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Speaker 2: in terms of evaluating some of these players on this

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Speaker 2: roster and trying to figure out what they have going

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Speaker 2: into the offseason.

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Speaker 5: Over the final three games.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that is for me, honestly, kind of

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Speaker 3: started when once Burrow got back, because I think it's

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Speaker 3: important to see what the team as a whole looks

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Speaker 3: like when you have the main quarterback at play under center,

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Speaker 3: that that's when you know that all the operations are

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Speaker 3: going in the way that they would like them to go.

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Speaker 3: I think on defense, you still wants to see different

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Speaker 3: ways in which some of these players are used, Like

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Speaker 3: you saw some of the evolution with Demetrius Knight Junior

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Speaker 3: against the Baltimore Ravens. He saw make a little bit

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Speaker 3: more plays at him behind the line of scrimmage. He saw,

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Speaker 3: you know, Berek Carter continuing to be who he is.

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Speaker 3: He saw Miles Burkey continuing take to take those steps

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Speaker 3: as a pass rusher. So just giving these guys is

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Speaker 3: more it sounds cliche, but just giving them more reps

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Speaker 3: in positions in which they will probably be counted on

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Speaker 3: to play next year. Like that, that's all it is.

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Speaker 3: It's just a piling up of experience and reps and

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Speaker 3: making sure that you have as much of an evaluation

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Speaker 3: on them as possible. And that goes for both sides

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Speaker 3: of the ball. And you know, I'm interested to see

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Speaker 3: if there's any change up along the lines of the defense.

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Speaker 3: And with all these injuries that they're incurring, that like

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Speaker 3: eight guys who have ankle injuries right now, so maybe

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Speaker 3: you'll see some new players play against the Dolphins and

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Speaker 3: the Cardinals and the Browns. But yeah, it's just about

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Speaker 3: getting as much tape out there as possible and putting

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Speaker 3: these guys in the positions that they should be expected

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Speaker 3: to play next year because of the coaches.

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Speaker 4: Isn't going to change.

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Speaker 2: Who do you think outside of Miles Murphy and DJ

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Speaker 2: Turner has made the most progress this year on defense.

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Speaker 3: I still I'm still wondering, like it is progress the

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Speaker 3: word that you would use with Jordan battle, because if

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Speaker 3: for every great play that he makes, there's a player like, oh,

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Speaker 3: there's probably a reason why you shouldn't be starting out there.

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Speaker 3: I think Battle at least I feel like I have

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Speaker 3: a better idea.

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Speaker 4: Of who he is.

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Speaker 3: He's a guy that I would want on the field

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Speaker 3: if the rest of the defense has figured out, just

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Speaker 3: because he's such an ex factor in terms of just

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Speaker 3: finding the ball and being around the ball. And I think,

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Speaker 3: just at least for his sake, identifying that quality of

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Speaker 3: him as a player now that he's a full time starter,

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Speaker 3: I think that's useful information to know. Again, I don't

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Speaker 3: know if he's really made a big of a jump

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Speaker 3: that you would want to be like, oh, like I

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Speaker 3: want this guy for sure starting next year in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty six. But at least there's more information about him.

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Speaker 3: I would have liked to see more of that from

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Speaker 3: Dak still this year. But I think the fact that

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Speaker 3: he's been playing on the boundary when he was you know,

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Speaker 3: being you know, trained to be in the Nickel this year,

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Speaker 3: all the time and the injury that came to him,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's necessarily helped him, but I still

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Speaker 3: think that he was showing some progress in some science

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Speaker 3: of consistency in the role that he was probably meant

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Speaker 3: to play. And then again, like, I think there's been

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Speaker 3: some flashes here and there from Chris Jankins and McKinley Jackson,

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Speaker 3: but not quite enough to the point where like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: there are definitely the level of Turner and Murphy, So

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Speaker 3: I really do feel like it's just those two and

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Speaker 3: everyone else is kind of in the tier of their own.

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Speaker 5: Tony and I debated earlier this week.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you're trying to build a culture that

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Speaker 2: wins are sometimes more important than draft picks. Do you

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Speaker 2: feel like the Bengals need to build on and work

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Speaker 2: on their culture and wins can help that, or do

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Speaker 2: you think they're so far gone that the draft pick

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Speaker 2: is the most important thing and it really doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: whether or not they win games over the final three weeks.

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Speaker 3: In general, I'm a firm believer that tanking for any

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Speaker 3: sort of draft pick that isn't going to be used

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Speaker 3: on a quarterback is not necessarily in your best interest

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Speaker 3: because at the end of the day, like, yeah, like

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Speaker 3: there have been examples of top sixteen picks that completely

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Speaker 3: revolutionize one side of the ball at Jamar Chase can

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Speaker 3: be an example of that, right, Kyle Hamilton example of

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Speaker 3: that for the Ravens. Right, maybe there is that player

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Speaker 3: that the Bengals could draft nine rather than maybe picking

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Speaker 3: like thirteen and fourteen.

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Speaker 4: Right, But at the end.

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Speaker 3: Of the day, when you have the quarterback, you don't

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Speaker 3: need a plethora of superstars around him. You just need

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Speaker 3: solid quality players and you can find that whether you're

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Speaker 3: picking at eight or fourteen.

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Speaker 4: As long as you know what you're looking for.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a believer that, yeah, this team definitely needs

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Speaker 3: to learn how to win again and learn what winning

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Speaker 3: feels like, and learn how to win games of this

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Speaker 3: part of the year, because that was something that was

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Speaker 3: assumed that would happen again this year, winning in December,

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Speaker 3: and clearly that has definitely fallen off the map. So

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Speaker 3: I think building wins if you're going to keep all

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Speaker 3: this together, what winning is definitely more important than having maybe.

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Speaker 4: A couple of spots in the draft order picked up.

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Speaker 3: Because again, people are worried about the Bengals picking in

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Speaker 3: the teams because they haven't had that much success. But

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Speaker 3: I don't think that that, again, like a handful of

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Speaker 3: draft spots, is really going to make that large of

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Speaker 3: a difference, especially if they especially if they evolve their

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Speaker 3: draft process the way that they need to.

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Speaker 2: When do you start, like digging into draft stuff. When

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Speaker 2: do you start, you know, start reading about prospects and

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Speaker 2: mock drafts and all that. When does that process start

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Speaker 2: for Johnny football?

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Speaker 3: For Johnny Football, it's really just a bad after these

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Speaker 3: guys declare, because I've been burned too many times about

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Speaker 3: learning about underclassman who obviously, like are the guys that

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Speaker 3: you want to draft early on, like the guys with

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Speaker 3: the most potential, the guys who produced the most, and

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Speaker 3: sometimes some of those guys end up going back to school.

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Speaker 3: So I don't want to get burned about guys, you know,

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Speaker 3: going back and obviously that's more prevalent now than ever

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Speaker 3: with n IM the opportunity for these guys to make money.

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Speaker 3: So once they declare, I'm pretty much full full steam

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Speaker 3: ahead for the Senior Bowl and around that time of

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Speaker 3: the year.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any comments on Jisel James returning to

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Speaker 2: the Bearcat lineup last night.

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Speaker 3: I think Moegger said it best in how like his

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Speaker 3: return could alter the team's chemistry or chemistry any talent

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Speaker 3: that you can get there and make west Miller less

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Speaker 3: important for the actual on.

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Speaker 4: Field on core performance.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, great stuff, John. What are you working

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Speaker 2: on for Bengals fans to follow along?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Again, it's it's you know, the last few weeks of

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Speaker 3: whatever this this season has been. I guess if you

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Speaker 3: want to continue following along or the Sportscincinnati dot com

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Speaker 3: a sports Cincinnati for your short form video on talk, YouTube, Instagram,

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Speaker 3: do live streams on all those platforms as well.

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Speaker 4: Once a week check us out there to see how

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Speaker 4: the season ends.

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Speaker 2: Great stuff, John, thanks for making some time for me.

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Speaker 2: Have a great holiday. We're not going to talk next week,

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Speaker 2: but enjoy your holidays. Man, appreciate all your help this season.

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Speaker 4: Happy All that is awesome?

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Speaker 5: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: That is John Shearon you heard him? Eight is e

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Speaker 2: Sports one of my favorites. Go follow him John underscore

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Speaker 2: underscore Sharon on X A lot of great stuff.

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Speaker 5: Did I say X? Who have I become? That's not me?

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Speaker 2: It's Twitter. Gosh, I can't believe I just I'm disappointed

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Speaker 2: in myself. I can't believe I just said that. All right,

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Speaker 2: it's it's Twitter. That's where it's at. All right, when

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Speaker 2: we come back talkbacks. If you haven't left to talk back,

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Speaker 2: there's still time. Go to the iHeartRadio app when you

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Speaker 2: search ESPN fifteen thirty. There's a little microphone next to

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Speaker 2: the play button. Just tap that microphone. Leave me a

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Speaker 2: thirty second message and we'll play it. I'll play it

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Speaker 2: when we come back. Talkbacks are next right here on

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Speaker 2: the home of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifan dirty