1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Normally I wouldn't play the same talk back twice in 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: the same show, but Michael specifically asked for this one. Michael, 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: we've had this discussion before. 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 2: What happens if Trump just disregards what that judge said 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 2: about sending that regard for him. 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: I mean, he's the president. 7 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 3: He's just some kind of judge. I mean, I wouldn't 8 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 3: even listen to that. He's the commander in chief. 9 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: Please answer this one, all. 10 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: Right, sit down, shut up, and listen. Now. 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: I understand the frustration, but again, let's go back to 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: the premise of your point that or your your question. 13 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: I guess because it is it wasn't. The form of 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: a question has to be in the form of a question. Yes, 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: he's the commander in chief. But we have three equal 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: branches of government. You've got the Congress, or you have 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: the executive Article two and the judiciary Article three. They 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: are equal branches of government. 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 3: And. 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: None is more powerful or less powerful than the other. 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: They're equal branches. Let's take the judiciary though, for just 22 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: a second, because I think the Congress is self explanatory. 23 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: You have the Congress, it's divided up into two houses, 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: the House and the Senate. You have the executive which 25 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: is the President, and the President is in charge of 26 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: faithfully administering the laws and is the commander in chief 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: over the armed forces, over the US military. Then in 28 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Article three, you have the Supreme Court, which is the 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: only court established by the Constitution. Any other courts are 30 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: referred to as Article three courts which are established by 31 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: Congress and their jurisdiction is established by Congress. Those courts 32 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: can so so all the trial courts can be expanded 33 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: or diminished. The appellate courts could be divided up and 34 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: make we get We could expand the number of appellate courts. 35 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: They Congress could reduce the number of pellate courts, and 36 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: of course they can determine their jurisdiction based on Okay, 37 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: we're going to create a new UH fourteenth Circuit, and 38 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: the fourteenth Circuit will just cover UH the UH lower 39 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: portion of New York, the boroughs of New York City. 40 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: Those are all even though they're established by Congress, They're 41 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: jurisdiction is established by Congress, and of course, obviously and 42 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: that is subject to interpretation by their superior court, which 43 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: are their appellate courts and their Supreme Court. If Trump 44 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: were to ignore a federal trial judge's injunction prohibiting the 45 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: deployment of National Guard troops to Portland, we would face 46 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: both well, everyone the country would face severe legal and 47 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: profound political ramifications. Let's go through the legal ramifications. Ignoring 48 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: a federal court order, whether the President or you're Michael Brown, 49 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: constitutes a direct challenge to the constitutional principle of judicial review, 50 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: which has been established in a firm by the US 51 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: Supreme Court and the supremacy of federal law, as established 52 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: in Marbury versus Madison, the very first decision decided by 53 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court. So let me state it again. 54 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: That's a direct challenge to the constitutional principle of judicial review. 55 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: The second point would be the trial judge could start 56 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: contempt proceedings. Will go to India these separately in just 57 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: a second. The trial judge could start content proceedings. The 58 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: trial judge could issue additional enforcement orders, or even the 59 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: judge could seek the intervention of higher courts. The judiciary 60 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: has limited power to compel presidential compliance directly, especially regarding 61 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: use of the military, so the judge has things the 62 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: judge could do. He could try to hold the president 63 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: in contempt. I don't think that will fly. He however, 64 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: could holding can attempt those who are carrying out the orders. 65 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: That would be appealed immediately by the Department of Justice. 66 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: And if there were personal contempt citations, then those individuals 67 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: would appeal their contempt citation. So now you're involved in litigation. 68 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: Now you're fighting in. 69 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: Court over the order. 70 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: Ultimately, Ultimately, the primary constitutional recourse is for Congress to 71 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: invoke oversight or pursue impeachment. And I throw impeachment because 72 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: a willful defiance by the president of the Article three 73 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: court's authority is widely considered and has been held to 74 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: be a high crime and misdemeanor because it endangers the 75 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: separation of powers. Those equal branches of government operate under 76 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: a concept of separation of powers. 77 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 3: Each has its own power. Now, other presidents, Andrew Jackson. 78 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: And Richard Nixon, they faced escalating political legal consequences when 79 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: they challenge the authority of the courts. Generally, either the 80 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: threat of impeachment or correct congressional action has caused presidents 81 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: to back down rather than trigger a full blown constitutional crisis. 82 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: If Congress ordered, say the Secretary of Homeland Security, the 83 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: Secretary of defense all to appear and to answer on 84 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: behalf of the president. 85 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: They wouldn't. 86 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,119 Speaker 1: They wouldn't dare call the president that he could invoke 87 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: an executive privilege and he just would not appear. But 88 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: they could go down the path of exercising their constitutional 89 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: right to do oversight and start questioning the who, what, where, when, 90 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: and why the five ws of the order that's defying 91 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: a trial judge. And if they found evidence that the 92 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: president had in defiance of that order told them to 93 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: go do this anyway, that would start an impeachment process. Interestingly, 94 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: the impeachment process in this situation, I'm not going to 95 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: say would not go anywhere. Many people would jump to 96 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: the conclusion and say the impeachment process would never go anywhere. Now, 97 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: remember impeachment has to start in the House, so you 98 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: would have to have the House approve articles of impeachment. 99 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: Because Republicans control the House, they probably would not be 100 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: able to get enough votes to issue articles of impeachment. However, 101 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: think about what that does. You're now starting. You've got 102 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: the shutdown going on, you've got the budget crisis going on, 103 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: you've got the spending and debt crisis that they're occurring 104 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: you've got all the international things that Trump's going that 105 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: he is doing right now. Congress would be out of 106 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: their freaking mind to spend one natal second debating impeachment 107 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: because that's now going to detract Trump from doing all 108 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: the other things that we want Trump to do. And 109 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: I think Trump would be smart enough to say, you 110 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: know what I'm going to do. Okay, you've enjoined me 111 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: from deploying the troops. I'm going to direct the Department 112 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: of Justice on behalf of the White House to appeal that. 113 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: I think that's the right thing to do. But there 114 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: are political ramifications. I haven't discussed at all. Presidential defiance 115 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: of a judicial order. Just saying you know me mean 116 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: you know a raspberry. I'm not going to do anything 117 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: that would create a constitutional crisis, and that will I 118 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: talked about the lack of confidence in the American rule 119 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: of law because of what's going on in Chicago. This 120 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: would set a perilous precedent for future executive action. This 121 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: would be the absolute wrong thing for Trump to do. 122 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: Because I'm talking pure politics now, because while many you, 123 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: for example, would stand up and applaud it, I would 124 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: not applaud it. I would not applaud him just flagrantly 125 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:41,479 Speaker 1: ignoring a court order, because that does set a precedent 126 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: and that does create a constitutional crisis. 127 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 3: So the political part of me says, don't do that. 128 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 3: Take it to court. 129 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: I know everybody is in a rush, rush, rush to 130 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: get as many people to port as quickly as possible, 131 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: to do whatever it takes to make that happen. 132 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 3: I'm the same way. 133 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: I want the same thing you do, but I don't 134 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: want to create a constitutional crisis, and I don't want 135 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: Trump doing things that's going to have a political ramification 136 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: that may cause us to lose in the next election. 137 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: I know I can hear you through my earbudge right 138 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: now that many people would stand up and applaud him 139 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: doing that. And I'm telling you as many people would 140 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: also stand up and say, wait a minute, you can 141 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: just ignore a federal judge's order. 142 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 3: There is a process by which to do that. 143 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: Now, you may not like the process, and I personally 144 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: think the process takes too long, but Trump could do this. 145 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: He could explige it to the Supreme Court. Trump could I 146 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: get right to the Supreme Court if you wanted to. 147 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: Now it's up to the Supreme Court whether they want. 148 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 3: To hear it or not. 149 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: But if we've got ICE agents under attack, we have 150 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: local law enforcement refusing to help defend them, if we 151 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: have right it's in Portland, we have federal buildings being 152 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: burned down, and a federal judge won't let things, won't 153 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: let him deploy the National Guard. Then I think that 154 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing that probably I would hope 155 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: nine zero, but more likely eight to one, because you 156 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: know that Jackson Brown's not going to do anything. She's 157 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: against Trump regardless. I think even Kagan and so to 158 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: my or to some extent, would be, Yeah, this is 159 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that we need to hear because 160 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: this involves executive power, executive function versus our judicial power. 161 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: Let's hear it right now. So that doesn't mean that 162 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: they would vote in favor of him. I'm just saying 163 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: I think they would vote to hear the case. Yeah, 164 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: let's go back to again, let's catch back up on 165 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: the political ramifications. This would provoke a national outcry. It 166 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: likely would unite Congress, including many from his own party. 167 00:11:54,480 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: Republicans in a bipartisan condemnation or calls for accountability would 168 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: be a step too far. The situation could also galvanize 169 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: public protests and civil unrest, especially if federal troops acted 170 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: in defiance of both public and judicial authority in the 171 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: contentious city. 172 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 3: This is really pushing This is not pushing. 173 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: The envelope over here on the edge. This is pushing 174 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: the envelope off the edge. Politically, ignoring a court injunction, 175 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: Trump would risk eroding presidential legitimacy both domestically and internationally, 176 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: both of which are incredibly important right now, calling into 177 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: question the commitment to a constitutional governance. 178 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 3: Now. 179 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: Historically rare episodes of presidential defiance. Let's Andrew Jackson's non 180 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: compliant There was a case Who's ser versus Georgia. Andrew 181 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: Jackson's non compliance with that case and lincoln suspension of 182 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: habeas corpus in another case ex party merriment were viewed 183 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: as a extraordinary exceptions, each of which was followed by 184 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: intense political conflict called the Civil War and demands for accountability. 185 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: This system is designed ultimately to ensure compliance with judicial 186 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: decisions using legislative checks as at the last resort. So 187 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: if Trump were to defy the injunction, just say screw you, 188 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: Judge McIntyre. Whatever Judge's name is, would thrust this country 189 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: into uncharted territory. It would collapse our constitutional guardrails, and probably, 190 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: you know very well, could lead to impeachment. 191 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 3: Republicans might have enough. It would certainly lead. 192 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: To debates in Congress about whether or not to proceed 193 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: with impeachment. So, now that we kind of understand what 194 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: the framework is, let's think of the practicality. You're pissed off, 195 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: as I'm pissed off because the these judges, these trial judges, 196 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: keep stepping on presidential authority. We have, albeit a slow 197 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: we have a system for working out those conflicts. If 198 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: we step outside that highway of how we work out 199 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: our conflicts and decide that everybody's just going to start 200 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: acting on their own, we're actually adding onto and creating 201 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: even more anarchy ourselves. Trump would be playing right into 202 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: the very hands of those who advocate rules for radicals 203 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: or the Cloward pivot strategy. This would be precisely what 204 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: they want. He would be playing into their hands. I say, no, 205 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: don't do it. Appeal the order. It'll take time, and 206 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: I know that everybody's in a hurry. How long, for 207 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: how many decades have we fought and thought and thought 208 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: about illegal immigration for most of my life. 209 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 3: Well, we're not going to solve it. 210 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: In fact, we were in such a hurry as I am, 211 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: as I know you are, to try to get this fixed, 212 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: to get as many of these people out of here 213 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: as possible. Yes, we all agree on that. But if 214 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: we're going to start ignoring courts in order to meet 215 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: a political objective of deporting illegal aliens, that's not good 216 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: for our cause. That creates both a constitutional and a 217 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: political crisis, and it hurts our cause. The best way 218 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: to do this is within the constitutional framework that the 219 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: Founders established to resolve our differences. Now, the other thing 220 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: I can hear in my other ear is I want 221 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: the Civil war. If you really want a civil war, 222 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: you've never studied the Civil War. You don't really understand 223 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: the Civil War and how it ripped this country apart, 224 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: and we're lucky to have it back together again. You 225 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: don't understand what it did in terms of the loss 226 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: of life. You may think, because you know we're all 227 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: sitting in Denver right now, it's a cloudy, cool, overcast day. 228 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: It's like the first feels like the first day of fall. 229 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: Might be a little snow in the peaks when the 230 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: sun finally comes out and we're going about our lives 231 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: doing everything. Yes, I concealed carry because I worry about 232 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: bad guys. I worry about the criminal elements. I don't 233 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: really worry about my political opponents. Well, I think Democrats 234 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: and Marxists are danger to our constitutional authority. I don't 235 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: yet fear them and bushing me on the street, shooting 236 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: me simply because I'm a Republican versus a Democrat or 237 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: a Marxist. But that's what we would turn into, literally 238 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: citizens killing citizens to all us talk about the civil war, 239 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: stop it, just stop it. 240 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 3: We're working through this Trump's doing. We'll be asking to do. Mike, 241 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 3: didn't Biden ignore the court's ruling about student debt. I 242 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: didn't see a constitutional crisis? 243 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: Then, no, you didn't. You know why, because that's not 244 00:17:54,840 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: what Republicans do. Republicans went through the process. Republicans challenged 245 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: it legislatively and in the courts, So you didn't see 246 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: a constitutional crisis. Based on that talk back and interestingly 247 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: text message I have, here's what I really want to 248 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: try to get people to. You've got to change your thinking. 249 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: You've got to recognize that they are not like us, 250 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: and they are not going to play by the same 251 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: rules that we play by. And I know that for 252 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: many that's a war cry that is, well, then we 253 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: should If they're going to use fire, then we should 254 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: use fire. If they're going to shoot us, we should 255 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: shoot at them. Because this text message from fifteen seventy 256 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: three says Mike, I don't understand why the governors of 257 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: these states don't want to quell the riots. 258 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: I'm not picking on you, but seriously, you. 259 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: Don't understand why the governors of the states want this 260 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: to occur. You don't understand it because you don't think 261 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: like them. You don't understand it because you don't understand 262 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: what their objective is. You don't understand it because you 263 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: haven't studied. In this case, I mean Clarendon Piven does 264 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: apply to some degree, but more appropriately, Saul Olenski's rules 265 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: for Radicals applies. This is part of exactly what the 266 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: Marxist These are Marxist tactics designed to bring down our system. 267 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: And the more they try to bring down our system 268 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: of checks and balances, the rule of law, constitutional order, 269 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: equal branches of government, separation of powers, the bill of rights, 270 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: the more they attack those, the more we have to 271 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: make certain that we use those very institutions and we 272 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: use those very structures to battle them back. Why because 273 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: what they are doing that they're doing. Let's just start 274 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: with Saulolenski's Rules for Radicals. It is a guidebook for 275 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: grassroots organizing that it outlines the practical tactics for establishing, 276 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: I mean, for challenging the established power structures everything that 277 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: I just described, the constitutional order, the rule of law, 278 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: separation of powers, equal branches of government, judicial process, do process, 279 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: all of those things that we cannot function as a 280 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: society without those things, at least a society as we've come. 281 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 3: To enjoy it. Look around you. 282 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: A free market, a constitutional order is what we're trying 283 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: to preserve. And what I'm hearing people on our side 284 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: advocate is to abandon that in order to allegedly to 285 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: use the vernacular fight fire with fire. It won't work, 286 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: because that is precisely what Rules for Radicals wants us 287 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: to do. 288 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 3: Unless he's thirteen rules. You know. 289 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: Let me just say this right now, if you've not 290 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: read Reddit, I'm certain you can find it online or whatever, 291 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: that there's a website that has all these free books 292 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: that you can read somehow, you need to go find 293 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: rules for radicals and read it. Thirteen rules do you 294 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: know the most familiar? Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, 295 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: and polarize it. Use ridicules a potent weapon. Keeping the 296 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: pressure on opponents. Democrat mayors and governors that oppose Trump's 297 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: immigration policies. They personalize and they polarize the issue, and 298 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: then they frame the Trump administration iceen border patrol. They 299 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: frame them as the aggressors, and those are aggressors that 300 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: are hurting vulnerable immigrant populations. They're hurting American citizens. They've 301 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: picked the target, they're freezing it, they're personalizizing it, and 302 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: then they're polarizing it. They do that to make us 303 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: the bad guys. Why do you think when Dragon said 304 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: that he looked up the story about the the FAP 305 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: in Chicago, Fox Fox Fox Fox Fox, nothing from anybody else. 306 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: Because as as hard as it maybe be to accept, 307 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: I use the word cabal, they are part of that 308 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 1: cabal that is helping them in this case by omission. 309 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: They don't want you. 310 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 3: To know that. 311 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: The Fraternal Order of Police, both nationally and locally, have 312 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: come out and said whoa wait a minute, This is 313 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: not how we do law enforcement. When other cops need 314 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: our help, we come rushing in public rally, social media campaigns, 315 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: coalition building with activist groups. All of that echoes a 316 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: Lensky's strategy for mobilizing broad based grassroots composition, ridicule, delbimization. 317 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: Are employed Democrat officials. You heard from the mayor Chicago 318 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: deriding Trump's policies as racist, inhumane, un American, And what 319 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: do you do? Then you start lowering not among you, 320 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: although it may be affecting you to some degree, they're 321 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: trying to lower public support reinforcement. That is a direct 322 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: application of Alenski's advice to use ridicule and demonization. We 323 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: are watching it play out in real time. And what 324 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: we have to do is make certain that I'm not 325 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: trying to I'm not trying to be a Gandhi here, 326 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be a Glenn Back here. I'm 327 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: not trying to be any of that crap. I'm trying 328 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: to explain to you the reality, the political reality that 329 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: if we start pushing now, there's a way to push back. 330 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: And we have and we have a framework. 331 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 3: We have a. 332 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: Constitutional statutory framework within which to push back, and we're 333 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: not gonna win every battle. Quit focusing on winning every 334 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: freaking battle we get engaged in. This is a long 335 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: term this is it took a long time to get here. 336 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: I know your impatience gonna take a long time to 337 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: get out of it too. Trump has started that process 338 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: and voomp, they have come down like a wall of 339 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: bricks on using Elensky tactics to demonize him, the policies, 340 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: You and me, the Charlie Kirks of the world, anybody 341 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: who supports this change in American society so efforts to 342 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: disrupt ice operations as a perfect example, such as refusing 343 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: to cooperate with federal detainer requests, holding all of those 344 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: no you're right, you know, rallies for the for the aliens, 345 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: publicly shaming businesses, publicly shaming law enforcement, refusing to assist 346 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: law enforcement, sanctuary cities, all of that that support Trump's 347 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: policies that precisely mirrors, I mean it literally mirrors Elensky's 348 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: guidance to isolate and pressure key actors and the use 349 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: of mass protests, symbolic acts like declaring sanctuary status, for example, 350 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: and then building coalitions around that that's all consistent with 351 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: Elensky's bottom up organizing model designed to make systemic change 352 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: by mobilizing those marginalized communities and their allies in persistent opposition. 353 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: We're watching this play out in real time. We have 354 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: to stick to our guns that we're going to follow 355 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: the constitutional framework in which we're going to battle this stuff. 356 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: And again, it's slow, it's methodical, it's going to result. 357 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: You know, the smartest thing we can do. I think 358 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: the smartest thing we can do is recognize we've asked 359 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: ICE to start deporting criminal, illegal aliens. That's what they 360 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: are doing. Now, when you do that, sometimes you're going 361 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: to make a mistake. Accept that, don't They're going to 362 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: use those mistakes to show how we're demonizing. And what 363 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: did that stupid mayor in Chicage saying that sound by 364 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: we are we are instilling terror and fear in those neighborhoods. Well, yeah, 365 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: that's to be expected if we're engaged. 366 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 3: And I. 367 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: Want to use Vietnam, but I don't want people to 368 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: take Vietnam as an example and then say, oh, look 369 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: at me, like, but take Vietnam when you're trying to 370 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: rout the Viet Cong from a village, mistakes will happen. 371 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: And yes, maybe those people in those in those villages 372 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: feared both the Vietnam the viet Cong communists as much 373 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: as they feared the Americans, because the viet Cong used 374 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: and in a very good uh propaganda campaign about how 375 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: evil the Americans were. So if you were in an 376 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: American uniform, they came in with a predisposition that you 377 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: were the evil ones, even though we know the Communists 378 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: were the evil ones. So when we would go through 379 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: a village and we would try to route out the 380 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: via the viet Cong, yeah, sometimes a mistake was made 381 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: and it's awful and it's tragic and it's sad and 382 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: it makes you angry. But that is war. We are 383 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: engaged in a similar war here and they're using Olenski 384 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: tactics to make you either do one of two things, 385 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: back off, cave in, or overreact and say, oh now 386 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: we got to get our guns out. And by god, 387 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: we ought to just we ought to just defy a 388 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: judge's order. We all to just tell that judge to 389 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: go hell, go f himself, and we're gonna do what 390 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: we damn well please. Yeah, that brings down the constitutional 391 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: order that creates political chaos and that feeds right into 392 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: Lensky tactics. Recognize the battle that we are in. Please 393 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: democrats and mayors that are engaged in opposition to Trump's 394 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: immigration enforcement efforts are going to use these methods that 395 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: closely follow the strategic procedures outlined in Rules for Radical 396 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: and they do it by personalizing the conflict, using ridicule, 397 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: continuous pressure, grassroots mobilization. Now some will argue, well, all 398 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: of that is part of the American protest. Yeah, you 399 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: can go protest, but it crosses the line when you 400 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: start trying to envelop a ice pickup or a van 401 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: or a truck or car, whatever it is, or you 402 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: start throwing rocks at it, or you try to shoot 403 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 1: at somebody, or you try to set fire to something. 404 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: Now you're engaged in violence, and that is not the 405 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: American tradition. We're at the beginning of, were the beginning 406 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: of the change, and don't let yourself get sucked into 407 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: exactly what these radicals are trying to get you to do, 408 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 1: which is to overreact, which is to give up the 409 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: constitutional order, the rule of order. 410 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 3: Because ooh one, because you've. 411 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: Been you've been sucked up and sucked into the rules 412 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: for radicals, or two you're like, oh no, I just 413 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: want to now, I just want to go kill them all. 414 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 3: Sorry, Michael Brown. 415 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 2: I agree with the premise that you're saying on your argument, 416 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 2: but I definitely disagree with the last thing you said. 417 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 2: Do you really think that Charlie Kirk thought that he 418 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 2: was going to get shot that day by one of 419 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: his political adversaries for the things that he said. You 420 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: got to remember that you're also a political person and 421 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: you say your stuff on the air. Anybody can come 422 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: up to you in the iHeart parking lot and take 423 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:00,719 Speaker 2: you out. 424 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: I don't know where you got the idea that I'm 425 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: not aware of that and that I don't take extraordinary 426 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: measures to protect myself every f and day. I know 427 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: they're dangerous people out there, and I know they exist, 428 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that because there's a protest out there, 429 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: that I'm going to go engaging them in a gun battle. 430 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to avoid that. 431 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 3: Now. 432 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,959 Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's what you mean or not, 433 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: but if you're implying somehow that we need to go 434 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: engage in gun battles with these people, you're a fing 435 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: out of your mind. No, I'm quite aware of that. 436 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: You don't think I haven't had conversations with management in 437 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: this building about this building itself. We've had a talk 438 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: show host on this in this company murdered for his beliefs. 439 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: I'm quite aware of that. Back to the point about 440 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: Olinsky tactics, I don't know why, but it reminded me 441 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: of the Gettysburg address. It is for us, still living, 442 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which 443 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. 444 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: It is rather for us to be here dedicated to 445 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: the great task remaining before us, that we here highly 446 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, 447 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: and that this nation under God shall have a new 448 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: birth of freedom, and that government of buying for the 449 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: people shall not perish from the earth. We can only 450 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: do that if we recognize that that enemy within that 451 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: is opposing, that is absolutely using and adopting Olensky tactics 452 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: to marginalize us, cannot succeed by us adopting the same 453 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: tactics that they are using, because that will lead to 454 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: some president somewhere down the line giving another speech exactly 455 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: like that, and I refuse to allow that to happen.