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Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray. I'm WBS Costin's news radio.

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Speaker 2: Well, a few weeks ago, I had the honor and

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Speaker 2: pleasure of having doctor Bronwyn Carroll, pediatric emergency medicine physician

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Speaker 2: at Boston Medical Center and Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at

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Speaker 2: Boston University School of Medicine, on my show, and we

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Speaker 2: talked about the fact that one in ten children ten

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Speaker 2: percent of children experience sexual abuse before the age of eighteen,

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Speaker 2: and this makes that circumstance more common than any childhood

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Speaker 2: illness or injury that parents routinely hear about preventing, doctor Carroll,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to Night's Side. That is an astonishing figure

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Speaker 2: that you know, ten percent of every high school graduating

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Speaker 2: class in America has experienced sexual abuse before they get

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Speaker 2: their high school diploma? What do we base that? First

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Speaker 2: of all, welcome back to night said, thank you for

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Speaker 2: joining us, and how convinced are you in the accuracy

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Speaker 2: of those decisions, which to me and a lot of

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Speaker 2: other people appear just a combination of frightening, almost unbelievably frightening.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me back. I am so

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Speaker 3: happy to be here. And what I would say about

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Speaker 3: the numbers is that anybody who studies this or knows

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Speaker 3: much about it is in agreement that those numbers aren't

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Speaker 3: under estimate, which I know sounds even more shocking. But

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Speaker 3: the issue with those numbers is that they are based

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Speaker 3: on what is reported. Most of these studies are done

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Speaker 3: by surveying adults about their childhoods, because the unfortunate truth

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Speaker 3: is that the majority of children who are sexually abused

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Speaker 3: do not disclose, at a minimum for about five years,

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Speaker 3: many not until adulthood, and many not ever.

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Speaker 2: Okay, how long I'm going to ask questions here? You

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Speaker 2: know I keep telling people we don't script questions. You

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Speaker 2: haven't given me a series of questions. You have no

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Speaker 2: idea what I'm going to ask you, which to me

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Speaker 2: is the way it should go. But just how long

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Speaker 2: have these sorts of statistics been maintained in our country?

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Speaker 2: And which, of course, is going to lead me to

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Speaker 2: the next question of are things getting worse in this

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Speaker 2: regard or are they getting better?

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Speaker 3: I think that's a really good question, just off the

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Speaker 3: top of my head. There have certainly been studies looking

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Speaker 3: at this from the seventies and eighties, so these aren't

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Speaker 3: just recent data. Sure, and they seem to be quite stable.

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Speaker 3: The numbers are higher for girls, so the number for

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Speaker 3: girls is about between one and four and one in

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Speaker 3: five to twenty to twenty five percent of girls, and

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Speaker 3: then the number for boys are lower but still very high.

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Speaker 3: The range in those studies there's a broader range, and

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Speaker 3: I think that has a lot to do with the

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Speaker 3: fact that disclosing sexual abuse is often considered more shameful

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Speaker 3: for boys. Of course it should not be, but I

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Speaker 3: think there is more shame around disclosing, which probably has

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Speaker 3: something to do with the range. In reporting. It's just

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Speaker 3: harder to get accurate numbers.

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Speaker 2: There is there any you know, whenever we do polls,

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Speaker 2: which I'm pretty familiar with because I have friends of

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Speaker 2: mine who are political posters, they love to break out

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Speaker 2: the numbers. But between age and gender, region and if

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Speaker 2: it's a national poll, are there any numbers that jump off,

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Speaker 2: you know with what they call the internals of a pole,

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Speaker 2: would show that one group of again these are children,

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Speaker 2: are are sexually abused based upon well you're talking about

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Speaker 2: gender obviously, uh, geography, you know, any any other you

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Speaker 2: know breakout that that that we can point out and say, ah,

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Speaker 2: here might be a clue as to how we can

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Speaker 2: can fight this.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so it's interesting because physical abuse has correlations for children.

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Speaker 3: So unfortunately, children who grow grow up in poverty, children

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Speaker 3: of lower socioeconomic status are more likely to experience physical violence,

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Speaker 3: and the exposed of physical violence sexual abuse is much

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Speaker 3: more evenly distributed. Sexual abuse impacts all kids, all genders, races, nationalities, ages,

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Speaker 3: all backgrounds, which is so important for parents to understand.

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Speaker 3: Because parents, and this has also been studied, parents almost

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Speaker 3: universally seem to believe that sexual abuse is something that

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Speaker 3: is more likely to happen to.

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Speaker 4: Other people's children.

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Speaker 3: And I think there are many reasons why people think that.

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Speaker 3: But the problem is clearly, if this were true for

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Speaker 3: all of us, a minimum of ten percent of children

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be sexually abused before they're eighteen. That is all

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Speaker 3: something of bad news, But the really good news is

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Speaker 3: that parents can use simple strategies to get ahead of

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Speaker 3: sexual predators to prevent us.

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Speaker 2: Would of me to obvious question, what can parents do?

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Speaker 2: I watched a video of you today that just in

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Speaker 2: getting ready for tonight show that talked about how that

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Speaker 2: there needs to be consistency, how all of these sort

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Speaker 2: of problems, whether it's stranger danger, you know, drug use,

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Speaker 2: sexual abuse, need to be treated uniformally or consistently consistently

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Speaker 2: by parents. And I want to give you the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to make that point. And then we're going to go

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Speaker 2: to a break and we'll get some phone callers and

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Speaker 2: we'll get the conversation going. What should parents do to

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Speaker 2: protect their children? You can't be with them twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: A day, no, and you shouldn't be. That's sort of

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Speaker 3: helicopter parenting and constant hovering is not the answer because

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Speaker 3: number one, that's not how you keep kids safe, and

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Speaker 3: number two, that impairs their development in other ways. Child

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Speaker 3: predators are like a football team that keeps winning with

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Speaker 3: a single play. But if we teach parents and families

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Speaker 3: and kids to recognize and defend that play, then that's

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Speaker 3: how we get ahead of them. So for a child

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Speaker 3: predator to succeed in sexually abusing a child, he it's

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Speaker 3: most often then needs three things. Access to a child

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Speaker 3: who is perceived as vulnerable, compliance from the child, and

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Speaker 3: to maintain gracy. So, given the child predators have three

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Speaker 3: requirements to succeed in sexually abusing kids, what parents and

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Speaker 3: other adults who care about kids need to do is

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Speaker 3: take a three pronged approach. So, in terms of access,

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Speaker 3: we all need to be mindful of who has access

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Speaker 3: to our children. And then also in terms of child

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Speaker 3: predators seek out children who they perceive as vulnerable, and

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Speaker 3: what that means for them is they seek out children

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Speaker 3: who they believe have low parental involvement and who they

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Speaker 3: perceive as having low self esteem and needing attention. So

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Speaker 3: the way that parents can use that information to help

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Speaker 3: keep their kids safe is to make themselves visible as parents.

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Speaker 3: And I don't mean hovering all the time. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm a working mom with four children. I am certainly

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Speaker 3: unable to attend every event, every practice, every everything for

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Speaker 3: every child. But what I'm very conscious of doing is

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Speaker 3: making certain that all the adults in my kids' lives

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Speaker 3: know me, know I'm around, No, I'm paying attention, and

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Speaker 3: so I drop in unexpectedly on the babysitter, I introduce

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Speaker 3: myself to the coach, and I ask questions. I make

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Speaker 3: sure to seek out my kid's teacher. Then the other

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Speaker 3: thing that it's important to do is to make sure

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Speaker 3: that your children know how to move through the world

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Speaker 3: with confidence. Obviously there's a range in temperament. Some kids

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Speaker 3: are outgoing, some kids are shy. That's all fine, but

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Speaker 3: we want to build our kids confidence for many reasons.

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Speaker 3: That's just a good thing to do at baseline. But

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Speaker 3: if you teach your child to move through the world,

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Speaker 3: making eye contact, using a strong voice, showing a certain

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Speaker 3: degree of confidence in themselves, that makes them less of

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Speaker 3: a target for predators. Then the way that predators achieve

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Speaker 3: compliance from kids is through the grooming process. Grooming is

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Speaker 3: the process through which predators gain the trust of a child,

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Speaker 3: but predators also groom parents, families, colleagues, communities, and it's

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Speaker 3: through a set of very established behaviors. Parents need to

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Speaker 3: learn what those behaviors are, and you just start talking

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Speaker 3: to their kids about them. And then the last thing

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Speaker 3: the child predators need is secrecy. And so this is

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Speaker 3: maybe the simplest place to start these conversations with kids,

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Speaker 3: which is that adults never ask kids to keep secrets. Now,

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Speaker 3: a secret is different than a surprise. With a surprise,

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Speaker 3: people are going to find out and are expected to

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Speaker 3: be happy about it. So a surprise is making Grandma

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Speaker 3: a cake for her birthday. Secrets are different with the

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Speaker 3: secret nobody's ever supposed to find out, and people presumably

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be happy. Child predators need secrecy. So if we

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Speaker 3: teach children that adults never ask kids to keep secrets,

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Speaker 3: and if that happens, they should tell another adult immediately,

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Speaker 3: then that is a great first step to keeping kids safe.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was a whole lot of great information, and

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Speaker 2: so that's going to give us plenty of things to

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Speaker 2: talk about. But more importantly, I want to give parents

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Speaker 2: an opportunity to call join the conversation. Six one, seven, two, five,

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Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: This is one of those subjects that are difficult to

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Speaker 2: talk about. However, it's so important we've found out about

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Speaker 2: it that literally you never know who could be a predator.

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Speaker 2: We found out during that the priest scandal, the priest

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Speaker 2: pedophile scandal, the abuse that went on in of all

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Speaker 2: places that you know most of us would not expect,

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Speaker 2: within a within a church, and it was covered up,

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Speaker 2: so secrets were kept. Exactly what you're talking about. We

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Speaker 2: will take a break if you'd like to join the conversation,

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Speaker 2: if you want to ask a question, if you've experienced

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Speaker 2: this yourself and you'd like to talk about it. You

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Speaker 2: don't have to go into great specifics, but I think

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Speaker 2: it's important for people to realize that they're not alone

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Speaker 2: if they've also been subjected to it. Six one, seven, two, five,

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Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: None of us grew up in perfect households. Some of

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Speaker 2: us didn't even grow up in households. Some of us

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Speaker 2: were in more difficult circumstances. So with all the creatures

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Speaker 2: of our own experiences, and if there is an experience

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Speaker 2: that none of us want to ever be subjected to,

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Speaker 2: it's what we're talking about this evening and this hour

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Speaker 2: with doctor Brownwyn Carroll, Boston Medical Center. Back on Nightside

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Speaker 2: right after the break six one seven, two, five, four

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Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: Coming back after.

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Speaker 1: This night Side thought with Dan Ray. I'm w BZ,

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Speaker 1: Boston's news Radio.

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Speaker 2: My guest is doctor Bronwyn Carol. She works at Boston

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Speaker 2: Medical Center and she deals. She's a pediatric emergency room

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Speaker 2: medicine physician, I should say, at Boston Medical Center, sister

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Speaker 2: Professor of Pediatrics at Boston University School of Medicine. Is

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Speaker 2: this I'll ask you a broader general question. Is this

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Speaker 2: a problem that we are going to have to live

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Speaker 2: with as a society going forward, or is it a

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Speaker 2: problem that is an American problem? You know, we have

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Speaker 2: a fairly open, free wee league society here, or is

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Speaker 2: this something that occurs in other countries, you know, with

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Speaker 2: greater frequency. I'm just trying to get my arms around

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Speaker 2: how much of an American issue this is as opposed

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Speaker 2: to a worldwide issue.

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Speaker 3: This is a worldwide issue. The World Health Organization has

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Speaker 3: studied it extensively, and of course there's some variation and

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Speaker 3: there are you know, distinctions between different cultures in terms

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Speaker 3: of what happens and how it happens. But this is

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Speaker 3: something that happens everywhere. That said, I genuinely believe that

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Speaker 3: we can fix a significant portion of it just through

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Speaker 3: conversation and education. If every family knew how this happened,

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Speaker 3: and every family knew what to do about it, how

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Speaker 3: to get ahead of it, and how to speak about

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Speaker 3: it openly to their kids, what their kids needed to know,

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Speaker 3: child predators would no longer be able to operate as

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Speaker 3: they do now because going back to the football team,

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Speaker 3: everybody would know how to defend their play.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the video that I watched with you today

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Speaker 2: or not with you, but of you. You were very

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Speaker 2: very specific in terms of how parents should approach not

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Speaker 2: only the issue of sexual abuse, which is an uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: topic because some of it can happen with relatives as

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Speaker 2: well as family friends. These are not This is not

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Speaker 2: a stranger danger issue. I would assume it's more someone

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Speaker 2: who already has access to the child. You did layout

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Speaker 2: which I thought in a very convincing manner, that parents

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Speaker 2: should be consistent with how they deal with their children.

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Speaker 2: And at what age would be the question that I

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Speaker 2: would have, is this issue something that should be broached

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Speaker 2: with children? Obviously that there's a certain age below which

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Speaker 2: I guess it's not helpful at all. Give us, give

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Speaker 2: us the parameters as to how people should handle it,

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Speaker 2: and what age can it first be introduced to children?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so of course the way that you talk to

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Speaker 3: kids about this depends on the marriage and what's developmentally appropriate.

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Speaker 3: So with very young children two three four preschool age.

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Speaker 3: The two most important pieces of it are number ones

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Speaker 3: focusing on bodily autonomy and what I mean when I

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Speaker 3: say that is your body belongs to you. Nobody else

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Speaker 3: should be touching your body. Adults should not be showing

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Speaker 3: you their grown up bodies or asking you to touch

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Speaker 3: their grown up bodies. Those are just simple lessons that

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Speaker 3: kids can internalize from a young age. I think one

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Speaker 3: of the fears that parents have in talking about this

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Speaker 3: and thinking that it's going to be uncomfortable, is that

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Speaker 3: the worry that they're going to have to get into

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Speaker 3: nitty gritty details you don't at all. The messaging is simple.

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Speaker 3: Adults don't ask kids to keep secrets. No adults should

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Speaker 3: be touching or looking at your body, things like that.

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Speaker 3: The other part of it that we can do with

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Speaker 3: very young children is just teaching them to listen to

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Speaker 3: their inner voice. And what I mean when I say

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Speaker 3: that is we all have an inner voice that kind

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Speaker 3: of signals us when something feels uncomfortable or not writy

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Speaker 3: or just doesn't feel good to us. And with it

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Speaker 3: not with ill intention, of course, but just naturally. Adults

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Speaker 3: are frequently telling young children that the young child's inner

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Speaker 3: voice is incorrect. So a young child falls at the

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Speaker 3: park and is crying, an adult immediately rushes and it says, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're okay, and what the adult means is you're not

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Speaker 3: seriously hurt, and that's true, but the child doesn't feel okay,

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Speaker 3: which is why they're crying. And so when the child

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Speaker 3: is crying and you're giving them the message everything's fine,

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Speaker 3: there's a disconnect there and you're telling them that their

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Speaker 3: feelings are wrong. Another good example of this is kids

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Speaker 3: who are fearful of different things. You see it a

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Speaker 3: lot with kids who are scared of dogs, and adults

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Speaker 3: are constantly saying, Oh, there's nothing to be scared of.

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Speaker 3: The dog is friendly. This dog is so friendly. You know,

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Speaker 3: we understand how anxiety works with adults. If you had

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Speaker 3: a friend who was afraid of flying, you wouldn't think

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Speaker 3: that if you just said, oh, the plane is safe,

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Speaker 3: your friend would say, oh, that's okay, and hop on

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Speaker 3: the plane. But with kids, we dismiss their fears. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: here's why this matters.

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Speaker 2: Okay, when you talk about the inner voice, I hear

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Speaker 2: what you're saying. But is that also a developing conscience.

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Speaker 3: It's a little bit of everything. And here, but here's

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Speaker 3: why it matters. The reason why it matters is because

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Speaker 3: when children find themselves in situations that feel uncomfortable to them,

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Speaker 3: we want them to be accustomed to listening to that

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Speaker 3: inner voice that says, I don't want to do this,

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Speaker 3: this doesn't feel right, and to have had their parents

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Speaker 3: encourage them listening to this. I wrote an article just

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Speaker 3: this past week that was published in Psychology Today, and

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Speaker 3: it was about the idea that kids should not be

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Speaker 3: forced to hug their relatives at holiday events or at

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Speaker 3: any event if they don't want to. And it's for

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Speaker 3: the same reason if a kid doesn't feel like showing

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Speaker 3: adults affection, we do not want to be giving them

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Speaker 3: the message that they are required to show adults affection,

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Speaker 3: or even worse, that they are expected to show affection

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Speaker 3: to keep adults happy. And the inner voice is something.

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Speaker 3: The inner voice is something that listening to that inner

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Speaker 3: voice will serve your child well as they continue to

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Speaker 3: grow up, because in adolescence and in young adulthood, that

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Speaker 3: is the same voice that might say, don't take the drink,

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Speaker 3: don't get in the car, let's leave the party, let's

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Speaker 3: end the deep and so teaching little kids to follow

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Speaker 3: those instincts is a good thing to do and is

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Speaker 3: an easy place to start.

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Speaker 2: Great advice. My guest is doctor Brunwin. Carol She is

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Speaker 2: a pediatric physician, and she has some really good advice here,

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Speaker 2: so please feel free to join the conversation. We're talking

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Speaker 2: about the fact that one in ten children experience some

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Speaker 2: form of sexual abuse before the age of eighteen.

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Speaker 4: That is.

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Speaker 2: Just to me a mind blowing number. But apparently that

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Speaker 2: is the number that we're talking about. I guess we

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Speaker 2: could focus on the ninety percent and say, isn't good

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Speaker 2: that ninety percent don't experience sexual abuse? But when you

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Speaker 2: realize the damage that is done by adults to children

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Speaker 2: under the age of eighteen, and the long term aspects

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Speaker 2: of it, and sometimes the repetition general generationally that occurs,

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Speaker 2: and I want to talk about that. We will will

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Speaker 2: continue our conversation. We have to just pause for a

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Speaker 2: moment here at the bottom of the arraw. Doctor Bronwin Carroll,

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Speaker 2: pediatric emergency medical medicine, physician at Boston Medical Center, an

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Speaker 2: Assistant professor of pediatrics at Boston University School of Medicine.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to help you. You're going to help me

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Speaker 2: pronounce this because I know it's important to Chobanian and

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Speaker 2: Avedisian School of Medicine. Is am I correct on that pronunciation?

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Speaker 2: Close to it, close to it. Yeah, okay, good, that's

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Speaker 2: a very good I have a business school professor who

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Speaker 2: comes on, and he always wants to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we give credit to the business school, the name of

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Speaker 2: the business school, so I have to do the same

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Speaker 2: for the School of Medicine. Six one seven thirty six

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Speaker 2: one seven, nine thirty Back on Night Side with phone

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Speaker 2: calls for my guest, doctor Carroll. Coming back right after this.

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Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZY,

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Speaker 1: Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: My guest is doctor Brown and Carol and I think

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Speaker 2: that we have covered a lot of the basics of this.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to ask you a question inappropriately, but

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Speaker 2: what is the age or the age range that most

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Speaker 2: of these children who are reported to be sexually abused

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Speaker 2: before they reach the age of eighteen. I'm assuming that

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Speaker 2: there's a scale here, and I'm fearful of what your

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Speaker 2: answer might be, But my instinct tells me it's probably

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Speaker 2: going to be a lot younger than people realize.

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Speaker 3: So I think that there are different types of situations

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Speaker 3: that all fall under this single ugly umbrella, right, so

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Speaker 3: what these things look like can be very different. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: child sexual abuse materials which used to be and is

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Speaker 3: still more commonly referred to as child pornography. The Internet

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Speaker 3: has opened up a whole new avenue for abusing children

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Speaker 3: because child pornography, there's no such thing in the sense

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Speaker 3: that all child pornography is is the documentation of the

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Speaker 3: sexual abuse of children. So those images can start with

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Speaker 3: shockingly young children like infants, which is just horrifying to

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Speaker 3: think about. I think that where kids become generally at

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Speaker 3: risk is it depends on the category abuse. So, as

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Speaker 3: you said before, children are overwhelmingly abused by people who

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Speaker 3: they know, and that can be different things. So for

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Speaker 3: those kids who it's family members, the kids who are

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Speaker 3: abused younger, it tends to be family members because that

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Speaker 3: makes sense, right, They're not out in the world yet

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Speaker 3: to meet people in other ways. So that's what happens

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Speaker 3: to the young kids. Then as children move more into

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Speaker 3: the school age range, that's a different group. That's who

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Speaker 3: the group was who. For example, you were talking about

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Speaker 3: this scandal in the Catholic Church, which follows the same

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Speaker 3: patterns as so many of these other stories. We get

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Speaker 3: these stories with coaches, with Boy Scouts, teachers, you know,

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Speaker 3: justin Massachusetts, if you put into a search engine Massachusetts

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Speaker 3: teacher arrested child sexual abuse, you get many, many news stories.

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Speaker 3: It's really shocking. So school age kids are vulnerable to

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Speaker 3: the people who they come into contact with doing the

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Speaker 3: activities that school age kids are supposed to be doing,

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Speaker 3: playing sports, going to school, going to clubs, going to

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Speaker 3: boy Scouts, going to church. Then as kids move into adolescence,

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Speaker 3: the risk shift a little bit because what sexual abuse

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Speaker 3: can look like then can start out as something you know,

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Speaker 3: it is developmentally appropriate for adolescents to be interested in

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Speaker 3: romance and dating and seccess normal the internet. This is

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Speaker 3: another place where the Internet comes in. The Internet has

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Speaker 3: opened up all kinds of avenues for what's termed sexploitation,

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Speaker 3: which is kids meet people online and sometimes they even

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Speaker 3: know that these are older people. But it might be

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Speaker 3: a teenage girl who starts chatting with a man who

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Speaker 3: she believes is twenty two twenty three until they meet

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Speaker 3: in person and it turns out he's much older and

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Speaker 3: he assaults her. And so adolescens can also be.

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Speaker 2: At risk.

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Speaker 3: As their social life changes right and all of a sudden.

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Speaker 3: Alcohol can become part of the equation, as can other substances. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: when people are victimized, it is never the victim's fault.

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Speaker 3: Victimization is caused by perpetrators. However, the introduction of alcohol

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Speaker 3: and substance use dramatically increases the risk of these events transpiring.

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Speaker 2: Let's let's get some phone calls. Let me go first

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Speaker 2: to Carol in Randolph. Carol, you are first this hour

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Speaker 2: on Nice. I would talk to Ron Win Carrol, go

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Speaker 2: right ahead, Carol.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, I love what you're saying, and I

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Speaker 5: understand it. I was victimized when I was probably I

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Speaker 5: can't even remember, by six years old, and it was

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Speaker 5: a family member, and it was the whole guilt that

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Speaker 5: like I couldn't say anything because it would blow my

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Speaker 5: family up, and I live with that forever. And then

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Speaker 5: finally he died and I was able to finally tell

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Speaker 5: my parents what happened. And then it was the disbelief.

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Speaker 5: It was like, no, this didn't happen, and I know

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Speaker 5: we really did, and they didn't believe me, and it

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Speaker 5: just caused so much trauma for me in my life

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Speaker 5: because it was like, I'm sure.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Carroll, why don't you just talk to Carol for

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Speaker 2: a moment here, because I think yeah, she wants to

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Speaker 2: hear from you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, first off, Carol, thank you for calling. I

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Speaker 3: am so terribly sorry to hear that this happened to you.

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Speaker 3: You are not alone, unfortunately. I mean, the whole basis

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Speaker 3: for my work is that your story is so common.

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Speaker 3: What I say to survivors is you are unfortunately a

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Speaker 3: member of a club that you did not ask to join.

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Speaker 3: I am trying as hard as I can to keep

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Speaker 3: your club from acquiring new members, and so much of

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Speaker 3: what you said is exactly what I'm trying to prevent.

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Speaker 3: Because one of the main reasons that kids give for

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Speaker 3: not disclosing sooner that adults say the reason that they

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Speaker 3: didn't disclose, it's what you said, fear of basically of

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Speaker 3: upsetting people, but then also fear of not being believed,

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Speaker 3: which sounds like what happened to you. And so I

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Speaker 3: think it is so important to get ahead of this

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Speaker 3: and to educate parents so that they know that this

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Speaker 3: does happen. They need to actively work to prevent it.

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Speaker 3: But if it does occur anyway, the most important thing

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Speaker 3: that they can do is to believe their child when

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Speaker 3: they disclose that I'm hoping that by getting that message

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Speaker 3: out other kids will not have your experience.

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Speaker 5: I hope so. But you know, it was so hard

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Speaker 5: from my mom to believe it, and she was like, Nope,

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Speaker 5: this didn't happen.

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Speaker 2: And Carol, thank thank you for having the courage to

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Speaker 2: call tonight, because I'm sure that there are one hundred

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Speaker 2: or five hundred or one thousand people who, for the

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Speaker 2: first time probably are hearing their story told in effect

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Speaker 2: by you, uh, and that they now maybe feel a

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Speaker 2: little better by the fact that you called and explain

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Speaker 2: to doctor doctor Carroll, what what not only you went

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Speaker 2: through with the hands of the abuser, but then what

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Speaker 2: you subsequently went through when you tried to talk about

436
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: it to family members. A lot of courage called Carol,

437
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: thank you very much.

438
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 5: I mean, it was the hardest thing, and I mean

439
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 5: it brew a divide between my mom and I because

440
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 5: she she didn't believe me.

441
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: And is your mom still alive?

442
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 5: No, no, she passed before I would yeah, but she

443
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 5: was just like she just was like not a believer,

444
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 5: like this could have her happened to And I think

445
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 5: she knew, but maybe.

446
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 2: She didn't want maybe she didn't want to acknowledge it.

447
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 5: She couldn't acknowledge it and.

448
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: Carol, I mean, Carol, I got to take a break.

449
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: I think you in about four minutes probably lifted a

450
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: burden off of the shoulders of a lot of other

451
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: people who are listening tonight. And I thank you so

452
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: much for having courage to call.

453
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

454
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: And the one thing that I would add, Carol, is

455
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 3: that there is estimated that there are forty two million

456
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 3: adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse in the United States,

457
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 3: So you are not alone. And I would encourage you.

458
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: There are resources, there are support groups, and I would

459
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: encourage you to reach out and talk about it more

460
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 3: because that helps. Sexual abuse persists because of a culture

461
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 3: of silence and shame, and by shining light in these shadows,

462
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: that is how we affect cultural change.

463
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 5: It has to be done.

464
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: I mean no idea.

465
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 5: I'm a surviver and I'm fine now, but it hurts.

466
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 5: I mean when your own mom doesn't believe you, and.

467
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 3: That's very hard.

468
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: Carol, Thank you for sharing, but I gotta get a

469
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: couple more callers in here after the break. Thank you

470
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: for the cu for your courage tonight. Thank you so much.

471
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: Bye bye, We'll take.

472
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: A quick break. That's an incredible phone call. Gregory is

473
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: coming up, as is Rosie. We'll get you both in.

474
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: I promise coming back after this one night side.

475
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan Ray and Boston's news Radio.

476
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,959
Speaker 2: Okay, let me go to Gregory in Dorchester. Gregory next

477
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: on nights. I appreciate your calling. And you're all with

478
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: doctor Bronwyn Carrol'sted his start.

479
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: My name is Gregory and I came here as a

480
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 4: young kid from Ireland. I sixteen and I was going

481
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 4: to the Irish dances and this greg I knew one

482
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 4: from home, and you're seeing me right and all that.

483
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 4: One night he told me to sleep over and he

484
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 4: try to attack me with him. I have a smart

485
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: enough I had him in the mouth, get out, get

486
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 4: out of the house. I think the reason is there's

487
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 4: an awful lot of it swept into the rugue, and

488
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 4: thank god today the kids are smarter in the way

489
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 4: they are. But there's too much information on the internet

490
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 4: that's not good either. But as far as hugging anybody

491
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 4: or don't fortune. I would never forced my kids to

492
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: hug me. I'd say I love you well, God bless

493
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 4: you and all that. And I want to say one

494
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 4: thing about the boss there, Dan Ray. He got the best,

495
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 4: the best program in the United States because I watched

496
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: seeing them and I watch Fox Dos and all that,

497
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 4: and I have more information from them every night, and

498
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 4: they understand politics better than than anybody. And I just

499
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 4: I'll be very very brief. I want to wish you

500
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 4: and your family a very happy, happy and merry Christmas.

501
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 4: And and then I to be your ancestor and Gaelic

502
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 4: would be a knowledge son of it. Night, and thank

503
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 4: your doctor for your information.

504
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: Greg. Thank you. I know that you were able to

505
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: have a nice family and h and whatever was attempted you,

506
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: you prevented it. And uh you have a great reputation

507
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: in Dorchester and you know that. Night, I thank you

508
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: for letting people know that that it could happen to

509
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: anyone at any time, particularly when they're when they're young.

510
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: So Merry Christmas. Greg, Thanks for having the courage of

511
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: call tonight. I appreciate it immensely. Thank you, Greg, You're welcome.

512
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: Thanks night. Rosie is in Norwood. Rosie, you're next to

513
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: Night's side with my guest doctor Bronwin Carrol.

514
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Rosie, Hi, I have a question for doctor Carro.

515
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 6: I love some of the points she made tonight about

516
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 6: telling teaching your children at very young age that their

517
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 6: body is theirs. But the question I have I know

518
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 6: of some adults today who were molested by their parents,

519
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 6: So how can you they're not going to tell their.

520
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 3: Kids that their body is sacred? What can be done?

521
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 3: What can we do with you know?

522
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 6: What can we be doing?

523
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: Period? I don't know what to say here? Yeah, yeah, no,

524
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: I think this is a very important question and something

525
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: that I absolutely think about. My goal is that we

526
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: change the cultural conversation broadly. The one thing that I

527
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: think about is mothers against drunk driving. Now it's parents

528
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 3: against strump driving, I believe, But once upon a time,

529
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: drunk driving was relatively common and was considered I don't

530
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: know that I would say so acceptable but not remarkable,

531
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 3: And Mothers against drunk Driving was able to completely shift

532
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 3: the cultural narrative. And so what my hope is is

533
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: if we can start making talking to kids about sexual

534
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: abuse prevention part of standard injury prevention, just like we

535
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 3: talk about wearing seatbelts and not playing with matches and

536
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 3: not swimming without adult supervisions. So this is something that

537
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 3: kids hear from all sorts of places. They hear it

538
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: at school, they hear it through the media, they hear it,

539
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: you know, from their friends' parents. Then hopefully those kids

540
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: who are being sexually abused at home will get the

541
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: message elsewhere that this isn't right, and that will help

542
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: them disclose to perhaps another relative who they feel comfortable with,

543
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: or a teacher who they have a good relationship with,

544
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 3: or another adult too feeling safe. But you're absolutely right

545
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 3: that that is probably the hardest situation to get ahead

546
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 3: of us.

547
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, well it's a tough one. But thank you

548
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 6: for your insight, and I hope we get to that

549
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 6: that level of awareness at the younger kids age.

550
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 3: I hope that happens. But thank you so much for

551
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 3: calling your insight you.

552
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: Gave us, Rosie, appreciate appreciate your call. You raised an

553
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,919
Speaker 2: aspect that I hadn't even thought of, and obviously that's

554
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 2: the that that's the worst situation for anyone, anyone possibly

555
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 2: to be betrayed by their own parents. Thanks, Rosie, appreciate it.

556
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: Here well, doctor Carroll, there are any resources that we

557
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: can refer people to who have listened tonight and want

558
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: to get more information. Is there a book or anything

559
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 2: that that you could refer people to that perhaps you

560
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: may have written yourself.

561
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,959
Speaker 3: So I am in the process us of writing a book,

562
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 3: although that is not something that can be purchased yet.

563
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 3: But I do have a website. It is Bronwyn Carroll

564
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 3: m D b R O n W U E n

565
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,399
Speaker 3: C A R R O L L M D dot

566
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: com and not as links to articles I've written, and

567
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 3: also my social media Bronwyn Carrol MD is also my

568
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: handle on Instagram and TikTok, and I have lots of

569
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: short videos talking about all of these topics with quick

570
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: tips for people that hopefully people will find useful, and

571
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 3: when the book comes out, information about that will certainly

572
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 3: be on social media and on my website as well.

573
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: Well. That's great. I watched some of the videos today

574
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,959
Speaker 2: and you're very You're a very effective communicator. You speak

575
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 2: very clearly, and you speak with authority. So thank you

576
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: for spending your efforts to make people aware of this.

577
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: It's much more prevalent than any of us would could

578
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: possibly imagine. Thanks so much for your time, and I

579
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: hope you have a great holiday season and a happy

580
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: new year. We'll look forward to having you on when

581
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 2: your book comes out.

582
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 3: Okay, thanks for having me. Happy holidays to.

583
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 2: You too, Right back at you, thanks doctor, doctor Carroll,

584
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Bronwin Carroll b R O n W E n

585
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 2: C A R R O L L M D dot com.

586
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: We're coming back on night Side right after the eleven

587
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 2: o'clock news