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Speaker 1: It's six or six here fifty five kersee detalk station.

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy Friday to everyone. Tech Friday, Dave Hatter

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Speaker 1: are coming up? What caused that Verizon adage? He says,

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Speaker 1: also in his opinion piece the benefits of Kentucky Consumer

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Speaker 1: Data Protection Act and finally the worst products at the

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Speaker 1: Consumer Electronics Show. That should be fun Dave hat or

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Speaker 1: bottom of this hour right now, a regular feature here

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Speaker 1: lately on the fifty five cares of the Morning Show,

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Speaker 1: all the what I will call Shenanigan's coming out of

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Speaker 1: the orders and actions related to the mayor, the city manager.

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Speaker 1: Back in the background, Iris Rolie, and of course our

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Speaker 1: administratively police chief Threesy Thigi, who's implicated in this one.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back FOP President Ken Kobert. It's great to have

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Speaker 1: you on.

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Speaker 2: Ken.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Brian. Thanks for having me again.

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Speaker 1: I understand Joe suggested perhaps you should become a weekly

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Speaker 1: feature or even a daily feature on the Morning Show

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Speaker 1: with all of your press releases, and that's the genesis

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Speaker 1: of Joe inviting you on the program. In my you know,

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Speaker 1: happiness about having you on the program. You releast some

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Speaker 1: to the press about what's going on over like, what

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Speaker 1: in the hell how did this happen? Of course, that's

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Speaker 1: the case with the firing of Danda Pettis. She was

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Speaker 1: a police captain. That is a it's ab almost as

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Speaker 1: high as rank as you can get, right, it's a captain.

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Speaker 1: Then what assistant chief.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, assistant chief and then the chief, and the captain's

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Speaker 3: really the highest rank. Yeah, that you can attain through

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Speaker 3: taking promotional exams. Once you get to assistant chief.

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Speaker 1: Their appointments then that becomes political, but we'll ignore that

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Speaker 1: for the moment. So we're talking about someone a very

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Speaker 1: high status in the police department. She is the or

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Speaker 1: was and soon will be again the highest ranking black

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Speaker 1: female fifty five years old, work for the Cincini Police

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Speaker 1: Department for more than twenty five years. But then Police

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Speaker 1: Chief three Sohigia, according to the reporting on this, in

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Speaker 1: December of twenty four, fired her for alleged dishonesty and

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Speaker 1: subordination rule violations like time and overtime issues. She appealed

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Speaker 1: that and went to arbitration, and the arbitration panel said,

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Speaker 1: uh uh, they've ordered full reinstatement of her as since

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Speaker 1: a police captain with back pay, rejecting the administrations what

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Speaker 1: they call unfounded efforts or what you kind of called

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Speaker 1: unfounded efforts to terminate her.

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Speaker 2: What happened? Why was she targeted?

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Speaker 1: And I guess I have to ask you out loud,

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Speaker 1: do you think this was police chief three so that

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Speaker 1: Thiji's decision to fire her or maybe she got influenced

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Speaker 1: by someone else in the hierarchy?

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Speaker 3: Ken Kobert, Well, there's a lot of things they don't know.

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Speaker 3: The why is the biggest thing. We don't know why

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Speaker 3: why this was done.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: They ultimately, after this interview and they came up with

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Speaker 3: these charges, they decided that the fire chief would be

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Speaker 3: the department level hearing officer. Why again, they say, well,

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Speaker 3: it's because we wanted to be independent.

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Speaker 2: The fire officer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the fire chief did a did the the department

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Speaker 3: level hearing, which the department level hearing is basically like

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Speaker 3: a predisciplinary hearing. They hear from both sides as to

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Speaker 3: what they believe the fact pattern is and then they

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Speaker 3: make a decision. Well, the fire chief after all this,

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Speaker 3: and like I said, a lot of these questions go

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Speaker 3: unanswered as he issues an eighty eight hour suspension. It

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Speaker 3: then went to Chief Thiji, who determined No, I don't

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Speaker 3: like this, I want her terminated. So then it goes

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Speaker 3: to Cheryl Long, who's the city manager who is responsible

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Speaker 3: for the hiring and firing of every city employee, upholds

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Speaker 3: Chief Thiji's decision and they terminate her. Of course, now

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Speaker 3: thirteen months later, you know, after going to arbitration over

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Speaker 3: the summer, this three arbiter panel came back with a

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Speaker 3: decision of she.

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Speaker 2: Didn't do any of this.

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Speaker 3: All of the charges that they had, they said, absolutely not,

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Speaker 3: all of this was unfounded. In fact, you're going to

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Speaker 3: reinstate her with full back pay, full benefit immediately.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And I suppose giving a collective bargaining agreement, And I

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Speaker 1: don't know what's in it. Is that her sole remedy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good one that she got her

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Speaker 1: job back on all the back pace she's been out

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Speaker 1: for that long. But is there any opportunity like so

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Speaker 1: many others, for example, the fired police chief Washington or

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Speaker 1: the fire chief Washington's gonna end up getting a big

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Speaker 1: fat settlement checked because they wrongfully terminated him. It's been determined.

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Speaker 1: Is she because she's now still an employee or reemployed

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Speaker 1: by the sin Sty Police department. Can she pursue like

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Speaker 1: civil actions for this damage to a reputation and that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing, or is that is that covered by

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Speaker 1: the arbitration.

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Speaker 3: I don't know's that's something I know she has private counsel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I don't know if that's.

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Speaker 3: Something they're exploiting or not. But I could tell you

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Speaker 3: from the labor perspective. You know, we filed for arbitration.

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Speaker 3: We filed aggrievance based off of just cause, which means

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Speaker 3: there was no just cause to fire her, which this

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Speaker 3: arbitration panel said absolutely, there was no just cause. But

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Speaker 3: there's another interesting part of this, and we have child

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Speaker 3: that her right to do process was violated, and part

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Speaker 3: of that was, you know, in our collective bargaining agreement,

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Speaker 3: it says that everyone that is uh, you know, subject

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Speaker 3: to any kind of disciplinary action will be treated fairly

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Speaker 3: and I'm trying to remember exact words, but you'll be

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Speaker 3: treated all with dignity and respect.

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Speaker 2: And based off of.

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Speaker 3: Their findings, the arbitrator panel said she was not treated

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Speaker 3: with dignity in respect. Hmmm, So they sustained that charge

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Speaker 3: as well. So we had two charges they sustained both

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Speaker 3: of them, which is what led to ultimately for reinstatement.

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Speaker 1: Well, I can only rely on Jennifer Edwards Baker from

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Speaker 1: Fox nineteen to reporting on this. But apparently her termination,

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Speaker 1: least according to her lawyer, was a retaliation because she

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Speaker 1: had filed a complaint with the Ohio Civil Rights Commission

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Speaker 1: alleging unlawful discrimination retaliation against her by the city. So

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Speaker 1: she does that before she gets fired. That that sounds

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Speaker 1: like at least a logical predicate for them wanting to

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Speaker 1: fire her. Do you know what she said to the

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Speaker 1: House Civil Rights Commission Ken Cover?

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Speaker 3: I don't because those are all things. When we look

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Speaker 3: at what the FFP does is we don't get involved

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Speaker 3: in cops filing complaints against other cops because ultimately we

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Speaker 3: may end up defending them. Good point, So our responsibility

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Speaker 3: is what happened here. She was terminated, She came to

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Speaker 3: the FFP said I don't think this is right. She

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Speaker 3: laid out why. Our grievance committee said, yeah, we should

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Speaker 3: fight this. So we filed for arbitration and this is

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Speaker 3: where ultimately we landed. But as far as the cops

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Speaker 3: file complaints against each other mid administration, we don't get.

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Speaker 1: Involved with that, Okay, I can understand your need to

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Speaker 1: remain neutral on matters involving police against police because you

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Speaker 1: do represent all of the police, and of course you know,

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Speaker 1: this case is a great illustration of the benefits of

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Speaker 1: membership in the Fraternal Order of Police. I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: providing all this valuable service when when the police officers

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Speaker 1: I will say loosely rights have been violated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, without a doubt.

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Speaker 3: I mean Kim Ratowski, who you know is a partner

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Speaker 3: with Lazarus's law firm that we have. I mean, she

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Speaker 3: spent hundreds of hours preparing for this, you know, going

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Speaker 3: to this arbitration, writing briefs. I mean, it just does.

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Speaker 3: She does a phenomenal job. She really needs to be recognized,

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Speaker 3: you know, for the work that she did to defend

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Speaker 3: these cops. And she's done it, you know, with this

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Speaker 3: law firm for over twenty years, and she's certainly an

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Speaker 3: invaluable piece to the FOP.

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Speaker 1: That's wonderful, And you just gave a shout out to her.

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Speaker 1: Now double down on that for her great work on this. Now,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm kind of curious since Police Chief Fiji

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Speaker 1: determined that Denita Pettis should be fired rather than put

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Speaker 1: on at min Lee for eighty eight hours or whatever

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Speaker 1: was recommended initially. Did she testify at the hearing at

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Speaker 1: the arbitration, Yeah, she did. Did she I mean shed

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Speaker 1: any light on this specifically? No, No, this is exactly

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Speaker 1: what happened, why I terminated or rejected this suspension part

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Speaker 1: of it, I mean, any flesh on the bones of

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Speaker 1: that boiled down Stavid.

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Speaker 3: Not really. I mean she testified, she gave what she

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Speaker 3: believed was her fact matter. I mean there were probably

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Speaker 3: I don't know twenty people or so that testified. I

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Speaker 3: mean this was.

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Speaker 2: Hours upon hours. I mean it was nearly.

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Speaker 3: Roughly thirty hours of testimony roughly throughout everybody, and it

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Speaker 3: just came down to the arbitrators didn't believe that any

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Speaker 3: of this warranted discipline. Not only did they not only

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Speaker 3: did they believe that it didn't warrant it any discipline,

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Speaker 3: they also obviously didn't believe that it warranted her termination.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, if there's no underlying disciplinary problem, they didn't

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Speaker 1: believe there were any ethn clearly there was nothing to

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Speaker 1: justify the termination. That's just crazy. Did okay, Since the

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Speaker 1: chain of command goes all the way up apparently to

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Speaker 1: the final decision maker. Cheryl Long, the city manager that

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Speaker 1: should share a long testify at this hearing.

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Speaker 3: No, she did not.

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Speaker 1: Well, she's like three times removed from any of the

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Speaker 1: information relating to Danita Pettis on the job work anyway.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she doesn't know what's going on with this

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Speaker 1: woman on a day to day basis.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: And that's the thing is you're the city manager said,

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Speaker 3: they're ultimately responsible for for who's fired in this city.

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Speaker 3: But certainly it calls into question and I get it way,

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Speaker 3: we have six thousand employees. I don't know whether or

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Speaker 3: not how well this is reviewed. I mean, that would

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Speaker 3: be certainly questions for her. But it certainly is very

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Speaker 3: concerning when you have a fire chief that's been fired,

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Speaker 3: you know, to have you know, Captain Pettis fired, we

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Speaker 3: have an assistant fire chief fire we have a situation

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Speaker 3: that Chief Fiji's in right now. That is certainly concerning

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Speaker 3: that there's a pattern being created that certainly questions as

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Speaker 3: to whether or not any of these people should be

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Speaker 3: in the predicament that they're in.

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Speaker 1: Well that and then you add on a sort of side,

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Speaker 1: is you all the checks that the city's writing for

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Speaker 1: to various employees. We know about Chief Washington, we anticipate

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Speaker 1: Chief THEG getting one, but we also have you know,

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Speaker 1: the money paid to the protesters, and we've got money

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Speaker 1: being paid to well, perhaps being paid for wrongful death

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Speaker 1: actions involving justified police shootings. I mean, this is this

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Speaker 1: is just I want to say a Charlie Fox trot,

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Speaker 1: if I can be so bold, I just I can't

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Speaker 1: see anything good going on with this administration relative to

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Speaker 1: police operations and how they handle matters involving litigation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is something that this is snowballing out of

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Speaker 3: control quickly, as we've seen over here just in the

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Speaker 3: first couple of weeks of the year. The problems that

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Speaker 3: we were were seeing.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, one of the other ongoing problems moving

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Speaker 1: away from Police Chief DJs involvement in this wrongful termination

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Speaker 1: to her also being subject to that kind of approach.

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Speaker 1: She was let go and fired without any burden in

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Speaker 1: place on administer to leave without any articulated reason. We

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Speaker 1: still don't to this day, and they've extended the investigation

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Speaker 1: to Police CHIEFDG. The investigation can and confirm for me

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong or right. Investigation is to decide whether

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Speaker 1: there is any grounds to either place or an administratively

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Speaker 1: or fire herb because they didn't say there were. This

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Speaker 1: is like looking backward in an effort to support something

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Speaker 1: that they've done already.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is certainly one of the questions

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Speaker 3: that comes is, you know, wasn't arrest made and then

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Speaker 3: the charges have been Are they trying to determine the charges?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly what it sounds like.

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Speaker 3: It's just I mean, the this has been the common

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Speaker 3: theme is the lack of transparency, not knowing why why

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Speaker 3: why do we have Chief DG on administrative leaf. No

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Speaker 3: one seemed to be able to answer that, And I

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Speaker 3: guess we're gonna have to wait till the end of

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Speaker 3: February now, Yeah, to see what's going to happen next.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're paying a law firm substantial amount of money

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Speaker 1: to look into what police Chief three FIGI either did

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Speaker 1: or didn't do. We'll get a report on that and

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Speaker 1: then they'll be able to retroactively whether they were appropriate

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Speaker 1: in letting her go.

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Speaker 2: This is crazy. That's where we have you FLP President

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Speaker 2: ken Kober.

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Speaker 1: Keep issuing the announcements, keep making public statements. You know,

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Speaker 1: I just learned this morning that the fire department actually

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Speaker 1: has someone in your capacity. There is a union fire representative,

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Speaker 1: you know, president, and just Riker said, just missing an action.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even mean we had one. Apparently, anybody who

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Speaker 1: reaches out to that guy asked for a comment or

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Speaker 1: anything that's like got crickets in response. So we're lucky

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Speaker 1: to have you, Ken, Kobe are actually speaking out loud

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Speaker 1: on behalf of the folks. You represent the Cincinnati Police Department.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's it's a job that I certainly take seriously.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a very very important one of these

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Speaker 3: men and women that call out every day to protect

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Speaker 3: the citizens of the city deserve to have somebody that's

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Speaker 3: going to be vocal, that's going to fight from And

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Speaker 3: it's something like I said, that I certainly take seriously,

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Speaker 3: and I certainly enjoy being in this role.

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Speaker 1: I know you do, and I'm certain that the police

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Speaker 1: department and the members of the Sinsint Police Department appreciate

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Speaker 1: what you're doing and your activism on their behalf. And

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Speaker 1: you're always welcome here in the morning. Ken, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you're a regular feature. Part of me wants

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Speaker 1: to say no, because things will settle down and things

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Speaker 1: will approve and you'll have nothing to report to the

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Speaker 1: public about. But until that time, Ken, thanks again, have

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Speaker 1: a fantastic weekend and go on behalf of all of

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Speaker 1: my listeners and me and my family. God bless the

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Speaker 1: men and women in law enforcement.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Brian, I appreciate it. Take care of a good weekend,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure I'll talk to you soon.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you probably will. Take care of man