Speaker 1: I don't want to be in a mefican got flowed
Speaker 1: on seven hundred WLW so this week, and you're probably
Speaker 1: gonna spend a lot more time in front of the
Speaker 1: devices than you do during the week, right just because
Speaker 1: you're not working hopefully and you yourself.
Speaker 2: On average, you have around twenty one devices which are
Speaker 2: online in various places throughout the day, all of them
Speaker 2: using data pretty much all the time. And with the
Speaker 2: AI boom comes the need for more data centers. Thus
Speaker 2: the debate. So here in the Tri State, the debate
Speaker 2: over regulations being fought tooth and nail. And if you
Speaker 2: don't think this affects you, it's probably coming to your area,
Speaker 2: no matter if you live in the city or in
Speaker 2: the outlining area especial rural areas Ohio. Right now we're
Speaker 2: fifth nationally for data center development. We want to be
Speaker 2: number one. The state BESUS is an economic machine force
Speaker 2: to get us on the technology well at the top
Speaker 2: of the technology map. I guess City of Cincinnati's you
Speaker 2: may or may not know, it's getting very proactive. They
Speaker 2: just put a temporary moratorium on data centers in the
Speaker 2: city while they do a zoning study. Adams County there
Speaker 2: was another meeting over well, we really don't know. This
Speaker 2: is probably the most interesting battle over data centers is
Speaker 2: that adding the controversy over these plants comes a plan
Speaker 2: here in Adams County that's completely secret because Economic Development
Speaker 2: Director signed a non disclosure dree agreement, and nobody really
Speaker 2: knows what it's going to be, where it's going to go,
Speaker 2: and what it's going to do. Other than that, everything's great.
Speaker 2: Alex Schaeffer's here. Alex is a resident and he's proactive
Speaker 2: in the process of finding out if this is right
Speaker 2: for his community, and he's out in Adams County and
Speaker 2: the Monroe Township and joins the show this morning. Basically,
Speaker 2: the bottom line is you're not going to do a
Speaker 2: more toim like City Cincinnati has, but you're going to
Speaker 2: make sure there's some strict zoning regulations in place. So
Speaker 2: it's progressing, it's moving forward.
Speaker 3: It's progressing, it's moving forward. There's a lot of community input.
Speaker 3: The role of the trustees now within the township is
Speaker 3: they are going to work with outside legal counsel to
Speaker 3: put in the framework for zoning, you know, within these
Speaker 3: industrial areas within the township. Because everybody was on the
Speaker 3: same page where we have to get more information. We
Speaker 3: have to have more facts and more importantly, we have
Speaker 3: to know even who these people are that are wanting
Speaker 3: to come in and what they're wanting to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what raised the red flags for you about
Speaker 2: these projects? What motive motivated you to get involved?
Speaker 3: You know, these sites at Stewart and Killing Station, Killing
Speaker 3: is in and Roe Township have been empty for roughly
Speaker 3: eight years since the power plant shut down, and a
Speaker 3: lot of that has to do with the site cleanup.
Speaker 3: And those were the economic drivers of our county. And
Speaker 3: Adams County is such a prideful, beautiful countryside, but those
Speaker 3: were the economic drivers that really our community was built around.
Speaker 3: So it is these are general generational issues that we
Speaker 3: have in our county and we want to make sure
Speaker 3: that we're doing the right things. So not only us,
Speaker 3: but our children and our grandchildren are proud to continue
Speaker 3: to live and remain in Adams County.
Speaker 2: So this isn't completely going, Hey, we don't want a
Speaker 2: data center, we don't want any of this stuff. Stay
Speaker 2: the hell out of town.
Speaker 3: No, I would say everyone is of the mindset, where
Speaker 3: as I would akin these NDAs to that, mister Worley
Speaker 3: signed is you're essentially agreen to get married before you've
Speaker 3: even seen who you're going on a date with. So
Speaker 3: you know, we need to have more faction. We need
Speaker 3: to know exactly who these companies are. Are they are
Speaker 3: they you know, companies based in the US. Are they
Speaker 3: foreign based companies? And you know what exactly the plans
Speaker 3: are because there's so many different variables that come into play.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a critical point because in this
Speaker 2: particular case, and we'll get into the NDA battle in
Speaker 2: just a second, and Paul Worley, I believe, is the
Speaker 2: Economic Development director for Adams County. He signed an NDA
Speaker 2: with a company, But you guys have no idea on
Speaker 2: you know, the size and scope of the project, the
Speaker 2: exact location. I mean, you could kind of figure that
Speaker 2: out maybe with EPA records, but if you don't know
Speaker 2: the company, you don't know even if it's a data
Speaker 2: center or the type of services they offer before this
Speaker 2: thing goes in.
Speaker 3: So the projects that are being proposed in Spring Township
Speaker 3: are a little bit further along, specifically at Stewart Seite,
Speaker 3: and there's also Buck Canyon site which is across the
Speaker 3: road too. In row is very much earlier on in
Speaker 3: the process, which is very fortunate. And so that's precisely it.
Speaker 3: You know, we have to have more information on this
Speaker 3: because there I mean, it's just it's a black hole
Speaker 3: right now for the county, Okay.
Speaker 2: So the Economic Development Director signs this non disclosure agreement
Speaker 2: with a couple companies and says, we've got to do
Speaker 2: this and they'll be transparency if the project gets to
Speaker 2: a point. So, you know, how do you respond to
Speaker 2: residents like yourself being asked away for details until the
Speaker 2: deals are nearly finalized. At what point is it too
Speaker 2: late for meaningful public input?
Speaker 3: I think that starts at the time that you actually
Speaker 3: signed the nbas. You know, Paul Whorley executed two nbas,
Speaker 3: one in January of twenty twenty four, the other one
Speaker 3: was in November of this year, and based on my
Speaker 3: tracing them, it's my opinion that they are linked to
Speaker 3: Amazon because the framework around the NBA's is the same
Speaker 3: as what's going on in Mount War right now in
Speaker 3: Brown County. And you know, to that point, and I
Speaker 3: had raised this issue and discussions with some of the
Speaker 3: commissioners on Monday, is Paul Whorley serves at the pleasure
Speaker 3: of the Board of Commissioners in Adams County. So how
Speaker 3: is the Board of Commissioners able to oversee Paul discharging
Speaker 3: his job duties for the board and thus in the
Speaker 3: best interests of the county if they cannot even monitor
Speaker 3: what he is working on. Who is who he is
Speaker 3: working with on these sites?
Speaker 2: Sure, but from the company standpoint, be it Amazon or
Speaker 2: whatever it might be, we don't know. At this point.
Speaker 2: He's kind of like the cond of with so on
Speaker 2: these deals, you get a guy like him, an economic
Speaker 2: development guy, signs a non disclosure agreement with whoever's building
Speaker 2: this thing, which is kind of standard practice because you know,
Speaker 2: they want to keep the secret for as long as
Speaker 2: pass from the competition because there's a lot of proprietary
Speaker 2: technical information of all. But the people that don't sign
Speaker 2: it would be the the elected lawmakers, right, that would
Speaker 2: be the county commissioners of Adams County. And so at
Speaker 2: some point there's going to have to be a disclosure
Speaker 2: so that you can you can vote on this. So
Speaker 2: based on that, is this anything? Is this? Is this
Speaker 2: different than how it's done elsewhere, Not that it makes
Speaker 2: it right, but you know what I'm saying is like,
Speaker 2: if this is standard practice, I get why Amazon or
Speaker 2: whoever is trying to protect their interests here, because you know,
Speaker 2: you don't want all this information out there until you
Speaker 2: get a deal kind of put together.
Speaker 3: The debate on whether NDA's is standard practice or not
Speaker 3: really dependent on who you ask. I can tell you
Speaker 3: in certain areas and Columbus, which Columbus has over one
Speaker 3: hundred data centers right now, is not the most standard practice.
Speaker 3: And to your point about competition, that is actually what
Speaker 3: NDAs specifically inhibit. My degree is in economics from Ohio
Speaker 3: State University, and when you put an NDA in place,
Speaker 3: that prohibits you from even looking at other alternatives as
Speaker 3: to those sites and those developments, thus reducing competition. What
Speaker 3: happens when you reduce competition, you harm the consumer. Who's
Speaker 3: the consumer here, the residents of Adams County.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get the argument, and you, you guys,
Speaker 2: you definitely should have a hand in the process here.
Speaker 2: We don't want government just going out and no, we
Speaker 2: know what's best, and that's it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2: County officials there will switch to the jobs saying they said, well,
Speaker 2: seven hundred seven hundred jobs lost with the power plant
Speaker 2: closures there in Adams County, another five and a half
Speaker 2: million from school funding gets pulled off because as they said, look,
Speaker 2: I've going hey, listen, this is going to help support
Speaker 2: the tax space here. But as I understand it, data
Speaker 2: centers are obviously exempt from property taxes because it's commercial.
Speaker 2: What about the job creation element?
Speaker 3: So job creation, the studies have shown that you have
Speaker 3: to have roughly twenty million dollars of capital input costs
Speaker 3: to create one full time job. So if you have
Speaker 3: a billion dollar data center development, you are only going
Speaker 3: to create roughly fifty jobs, Whereas if you look at
Speaker 3: other industrial usages for that site that actually provide you know,
Speaker 3: not only additional jobs and infrastructure and increase land value
Speaker 3: for the community. You are actually specifically targeting a broader workforce,
Speaker 3: the technical skill set of the workforce that we have
Speaker 3: in Adams County. And it's also then benefiting the community
Speaker 3: for people to work there and also the school district
Speaker 3: in terms of the generation of those taxes from the payroll.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, what about the element of what about the
Speaker 2: this is you know, the trail. I love the trades,
Speaker 2: but there'll be like over a thousand around a thousand
Speaker 2: construction jobs for up to five years, and some of
Speaker 2: those would have to be in place for maintenance because
Speaker 2: a minute you finished this huge project going to take
Speaker 2: you know, three years, you're going to start having to
Speaker 2: refit some areas that were done three years ago because
Speaker 2: it's technology to change is rapidly. So some of the
Speaker 2: estimates say, you know, maybe one hundred million plus in
Speaker 2: local wages, one thousand, two thousand workers, eighty percent of
Speaker 2: those will be in radius of where you live. Those
Speaker 2: jobs are nothing to some of your nose at.
Speaker 3: There are nothing go some of your knows that. But
Speaker 3: I think you have to look at the actual data
Speaker 3: in terms of the payroll. And I've talked about this
Speaker 3: with David Gifford, the county auditor, who's a good friend
Speaker 3: of mine. And you know, when people try and say
Speaker 3: these auxiliary jobs that are created in the permanency of them,
Speaker 3: the numbers simply do not support that in the payroll records,
Speaker 3: and the auditor has that. And I think you also
Speaker 3: overall with these data centers in the job creation, you
Speaker 3: have to look at what's happening in the Greater Columbus
Speaker 3: area with Intel, where essentially Mike Dwine sold the farm
Speaker 3: to Intel and we had and the plants were supposed
Speaker 3: to open last year, and they were all these financial
Speaker 3: incentives and benchmarks that were supposed to be met by them.
Speaker 3: They have not. Mike had the option to enforce those
Speaker 3: agreements last year and he basically said.
Speaker 2: No, it's okay.
Speaker 3: You know, you can do whatever you want here in Ohio.
Speaker 3: So what would make the situation any different in Appalasha areas?
Speaker 2: And yeah, but at the same time you look at
Speaker 2: it and go, are there industries that are are knocking
Speaker 2: at the door and trying to get their way into
Speaker 2: Adams County right now? You know, you mentioned Columbus, Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: the big cities. A lot of companies want to do
Speaker 2: business in those areas. It makes a lot of sense
Speaker 2: for reasons we don't. The obvious reasons would be infrastructures
Speaker 2: already in place. But you know, Adams County I lost jobs,
Speaker 2: power plants. Is it kind of like you're turning your
Speaker 2: nose up with a good thing or you're trying to
Speaker 2: basically avoid a slam dunk care I mean, I think
Speaker 2: people see this and go, well, it's Adams County. It's
Speaker 2: not like and it's not being I'm not being derogatory.
Speaker 2: It's just like there are in companies that are looking
Speaker 2: to knock the door down to Adams County at this point.
Speaker 3: Are there no I would disagree with that. The sites
Speaker 3: have been looked at for a multiple for a multitude
Speaker 3: of different sectors over the years. And again I think
Speaker 3: it's important for people to remember that once the power
Speaker 3: plants closed, it's not like you can just open up,
Speaker 3: you know, a new enterprise there the next day. There's
Speaker 3: so much environmental cleanup the head to be done with
Speaker 3: King Fisher Partners to come in.
Speaker 2: It's a brownfield exactly precisely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and but okay,
Speaker 2: so there's some infrastructure there, but people are well, well,
Speaker 2: I'd rather build something, you know. At the same time,
Speaker 2: you know, these data centers take a lot of power,
Speaker 2: so you know, put two and two together, it's pretty
Speaker 2: obvious that you want to be near water, which you have,
Speaker 2: and you want to be near you know, megawats of electricity.
Speaker 2: They're easily accessible.
Speaker 3: Correct, And we do have the power grid there in place,
Speaker 3: and you know, this is something that that think Ramaswami
Speaker 3: has discussed about the strain on the power grid right
Speaker 3: now and there's currently a House bill in place, House
Speaker 3: Built six forty six sitting in the House Rules Committee
Speaker 3: in terms of actually setting a thirteam member commission to
Speaker 3: study these data centers because of the boom of them
Speaker 3: in Ohio, because of the strain on our electrical grid.
Speaker 3: So I kind of akin it to people as this is,
Speaker 3: how are we going to continue as a society to
Speaker 3: supply the power and energy to these data centers because
Speaker 3: they are not they are they are an energy input.
Speaker 3: They are they are not an energy export if we
Speaker 3: do not have facilities in place to actually generate that
Speaker 3: power for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've talked about this a lot of my show
Speaker 2: Well in the Future. And you know, you're in the
Speaker 2: tech sector as well, So it's not like you know
Speaker 2: your lutta, your scrim at the old man, scrim at
Speaker 2: the clouds and saying damn computers go away, right, I
Speaker 2: mean you lean We all leaned into it. We're all
Speaker 2: and it's it's such a paradox, right, Alex, because we're
Speaker 2: all guilty of this. We all have devices. I mean
Speaker 2: we're talking, you know digitally right now, I'm recording you digitally.
Speaker 2: It's going into a cloud, and so we're guilty of
Speaker 2: this ourselves right now. We have no choice but to
Speaker 2: figure out a way we can all live.
Speaker 3: With us absolutely. And you know, my company uses you know,
Speaker 3: cloud servers, and you know we have to have them
Speaker 3: as society, and we have to have them also in
Speaker 3: terms of national intelligence and also being independent from you know,
Speaker 3: foreign control. And I think we all saw what happened
Speaker 3: with COVID when manufacturing shut down in the rest of
Speaker 3: the world. Look that, you know, Oh my god, look
Speaker 3: how de pendent we are upon China. So you know,
Speaker 3: that is definitely, you know, a great point. And that's
Speaker 3: the thing I think everyone's standpoint is we are not
Speaker 3: saying no to data centers overall, but in terms of
Speaker 3: specifically the locations and the phases in which you possibly
Speaker 3: would put those in and where you would put those
Speaker 3: in at is what the biggest concern is with not
Speaker 3: having any information from these companies?
Speaker 2: The number one, the biggest outside of transparency the politics
Speaker 2: of it, which generally they tend to settle down at
Speaker 2: some point. What's the biggest concern for residents? Would you
Speaker 2: say there, Alex Schaeffer and Adams County over this.
Speaker 3: I would say, specifically where they're proposing it is you know,
Speaker 3: the landscape in you know, the southern part of Adams County,
Speaker 3: the hills and the river and everything is what makes
Speaker 3: Adams County beautiful. And also, you know, you know, the
Speaker 3: side effects that you have from the data center's long
Speaker 3: term is something that again we don't know about. So
Speaker 3: if the state is at the process to where they're
Speaker 3: looking at creating a thirteen member committee to study those effects,
Speaker 3: then us as Adams County should sit here and look
Speaker 3: at it and say, Okay, if this is a broader
Speaker 3: issue at the state and obviously the national level, you know,
Speaker 3: we don't have the ability as a small community to
Speaker 3: fight this later on down the road. So we don't
Speaker 3: want to make the wrong decision now that we look
Speaker 3: back ten years and we're like, what did we do right?
Speaker 2: It's hard because you know, you're at the tip of
Speaker 2: the spirit at this point. There are not many other
Speaker 2: peers you could look at that have been doing this
Speaker 2: for you twenty years and see what the long term
Speaker 2: effects are. You've got to make a decision that's going
Speaker 2: to impact the next hundred exactly.
Speaker 3: And you know that's that's honestly the problem in society
Speaker 3: with a lot of things, whether that's technology or medicine,
Speaker 3: and you know, we have to continue to evolve and adapt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are unforeseen consequences that no one can predict.
Speaker 2: And usually that's the case. We didn't we didn't think
Speaker 2: of that, or we didn't see that coming because while
Speaker 2: the world is always changing, for sure, So what are
Speaker 2: the next steps here?
Speaker 3: So so from area township right now, they're in the
Speaker 3: process of obtaining outside legal counsels, start trapped in the
Speaker 3: framework for what they want to put in for zoning. Specifically,
Speaker 3: their Sprig Township has a meeting I believe it is
Speaker 3: February twenty third, and there there is going to be
Speaker 3: some more information hopefully that'll come out about at that standpoint.
Speaker 3: And so overall for the county, the commissioners have promised
Speaker 3: to have more public input and a more dedicated special
Speaker 3: meeting to this. But again I think it's very important
Speaker 3: to point out, you know, in terms of these developments,
Speaker 3: the Board of Commissioners has the option to direct mister
Speaker 3: Warley to recuse himself from these NDAs, and that prevents
Speaker 3: these companies moving forward with the speed that they would
Speaker 3: like and garner that public input and have these representatives
Speaker 3: come in and talk to the community, talk to us
Speaker 3: about what their plans are and how they want to
Speaker 3: integrate themselves into our county in a way that we're
Speaker 3: proud of, just like General Electric has done with their
Speaker 3: jet engine testing facility in people.
Speaker 2: Makes sense, you think Cincinnata has it right putting the
Speaker 2: moratry monitsor in I do.
Speaker 3: And several other townships and Columbus have done that. Jerne Township,
Speaker 3: Washington Township, and the City of Dublin have done that.
Speaker 3: And they have data centers kind of around the perimeter
Speaker 3: of the City of Dublin. And because you know right
Speaker 3: now it's an arms race for data centers, it truly is,
Speaker 3: and that stems from I believe, you know, a technological
Speaker 3: arms race with China. So again, in order for us
Speaker 3: to properly look at this for our future and look
Speaker 3: at the side effects of it, and look at where
Speaker 3: we want to see these things in the landscape of
Speaker 3: our communities, we have to put the pause button in place,
Speaker 3: get more information, get more facts, and truly be able
Speaker 3: to make candidly and more education an informed decision.
Speaker 2: Alex Schaeffer is a residence in Adams County and it's
Speaker 2: certainly one of the more interesting cases because of NDA's
Speaker 2: and land and not knowing what really is going to
Speaker 2: go and who even owns a data center for that point.
Speaker 2: But it's a great example to look at for the
Speaker 2: rest of us because Alex is a resident, is getting involved.
Speaker 2: He's being proactive in the process of finding out if
Speaker 2: it's right for his community and where he lives and breathes,
Speaker 2: he eats, and works. And that's a battle. It's you
Speaker 2: hear and that's going well, that's Adams County. But guess
Speaker 2: what it's happening in Cincy. It's going to happen in
Speaker 2: in not only the city, but it's going to happen
Speaker 2: in maybe suburban areas, but particularly rural areas, Butler County,
Speaker 2: Mount Orb the list goes on and on and on.
Speaker 2: So it's a battle we're all going to have to face,
Speaker 2: or an issue we're gonna have to face, I guess,
Speaker 2: and figure out how to to what the best practice is.
Speaker 2: It's not going away. We're going to have to put
Speaker 2: them somewhere. How do we coexist, I guess is a question.
Speaker 2: It's a great case, Alex. We'll talk again in the future,
Speaker 2: I'm sure man, Thanks for coming on and shedding some
Speaker 2: light on this issue.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and Scott, you know on behalf of the people
Speaker 3: of Adams County. Thank you for having me on to
Speaker 3: allow us to raise our voice on your platform into
Speaker 3: the greater Tri State area. We are truly and greatly
Speaker 3: appreciative of all.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you, brother, and again we'll talk soon. Thanks again,
Speaker 2: Thanks Scott. All right, there we go Alex Schaeffer on
Speaker 2: the show. Yeah, you hear that, you go. It doesn't really,
Speaker 2: it doesn't concern me, it does it concerned We're the
Speaker 2: ones doing it right. We use all this stuff as
Speaker 2: far as information goes in data. We're using it right now,
Speaker 2: you're using it right and we're all using it. We
Speaker 2: have no choice. This is it's what it is. It's
Speaker 2: the future too. So can we lean and make money
Speaker 2: and make Ohio a more vibrant and improve our economy
Speaker 2: because of Intel, because of AWS et cetera, et cetera. Well,
Speaker 2: we also have to live where these plants are too.
Speaker 2: So watching these guys, I think it's a great test
Speaker 2: case for all of us. If you will anyway, we'll
Speaker 2: continue to follow that. Scott's Loan Show continues seven hundred
Speaker 2: w weld