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Speaker 1: Mister New York Mark Simone or well, we'd like to

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Speaker 1: bring you the smartest people on earth. John Carney, brilliant

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Speaker 1: writer of nobody better on business, the economy. John Carney's

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Speaker 1: columns and his work. You can see it in bright

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Speaker 1: Bart Business Daily. You should subscribe to it, read it

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Speaker 1: every day bright Bart Business Daily. John Carney, how you.

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Speaker 2: Doing very good? Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Mark Hey at your own Powell, what do you think

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Speaker 1: goes through his mind? Why doesn't he just say to himself,

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Speaker 1: let me step down and get the hell away from

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Speaker 1: all this.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's a good question. He only has a

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Speaker 2: few more months as chairman, and he's decided to make

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Speaker 2: those as explosive as possible rather than sort of quietly

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Speaker 2: ride out into the sunset. I think he's just what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing is he's taking in this very personally. Trump

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Speaker 2: has been very critical of him, and Howl has decided

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Speaker 2: I guess that he's had enough. Unfortunately, Palell actually, although

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Speaker 2: his chairmanship ends in May, he actually has two more

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Speaker 2: years to go on as governor term Normally a chairman

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Speaker 2: steps down from the governor's seat, but Pale, I think

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Speaker 2: is going to end up sticking around in part just

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Speaker 2: to sort of put a stick in Trump's eye because

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Speaker 2: he's so upset now.

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Speaker 1: A trouble of point a new FED chairman and then

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Speaker 1: Powell remains on the board, but as a former chairman,

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Speaker 1: he can wield a lot of influence on the votes,

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Speaker 1: on the decisions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. That's why the chairman have tended to

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Speaker 2: step down. I mean almost all of them have for

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Speaker 2: the last seventy five years. The last time somebody didn't

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Speaker 2: step down when they left the chairmanship was in nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty eight, so it's been a long time since this happened.

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Speaker 2: The reason why they stepped down is because you're clearly

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Speaker 2: undermining the new chairman when the old chairman, who you know,

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Speaker 2: ran things, who knows everybody on the FED, who's been

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Speaker 2: dealing with both the PLF officials and the entire staff

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Speaker 2: for years. In palace case, he's served two terms. If

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Speaker 2: he stays around, he will essentially become the shadow chairman.

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Speaker 2: It will damage the Fed's credibility and it will hurt

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Speaker 2: it institutionally. He really should go, but there it seems

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Speaker 2: increasingly likely that he's going to stick around and become

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Speaker 2: sort of the shadow chairman of the Fed, or at

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Speaker 2: least at least until through twenty twenty eight. Genuary twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty eight is when his final term will end.

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Speaker 1: Wow. John Carne, Breitbart Business. By the way, the daily

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Speaker 1: newsletter is excellent. Make sure you sign up for that

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Speaker 1: Breitbart daily newsletter, the Business Digest. Now President Trump will

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Speaker 1: appoint a new FED chairman. We don't know who it's

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Speaker 1: going to be. Can we be sure his name will

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Speaker 1: be Kevin Well?

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Speaker 2: This actually has gotten more complicated reasons because we've had

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Speaker 2: a couple senators say that they will that until this

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Speaker 2: fight with the Justice Department between the Justice Department and

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Speaker 2: the Fed is resolved, that they're going to oppose any nomination,

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Speaker 2: that they won't confirm any of Trump's nominees to the FED.

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Speaker 2: What that could mean is that Trump would have to

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Speaker 2: Trump still gets to pick somebody. Powell's term will end

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Speaker 2: when it ends in May. He will no longer be chairman,

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Speaker 2: even if they don't confirm a new one. It's unclear

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Speaker 2: exactly what happens in that case. Would the FED just

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Speaker 2: have no chairman? The way back in nineteen seventy eight,

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Speaker 2: the Carter administration looked into this very question, and they

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Speaker 2: determined that the president gets to a point a acting

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Speaker 2: FED chairman, but it has to be somebody who's already

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Speaker 2: on the FED. Oh, Trump has three appointees there now,

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Speaker 2: Christopher Waller, Michelle Bowman, and Steven Myron. So he could

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Speaker 2: pick one of them and make them the acting chair.

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Speaker 1: Right now.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Hassett and Kevin worsh are not on the FED.

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Speaker 2: They could not be picked if that was the case,

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Speaker 2: if the Senators were trying to block And there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of skepticism now, given this fight with the Justice Department,

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Speaker 2: whether Kevin Hassett could get confirmed. He's seen as very

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Speaker 2: close to Trump. He is Trump's top economic advisor in

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Speaker 2: the White House, and including Republican senators may push back

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Speaker 2: and say, we don't want somebody that close to the

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Speaker 2: president getting the nomination.

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Speaker 1: Well, this whole thing about the FED has to be

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Speaker 1: totally independent, totally separate. Is that always been the case?

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Speaker 1: Is that really true?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not really true. Actually, historically the FED hasn't

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Speaker 2: been totally independent, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. It

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Speaker 2: used to be by the way that the Treasury Secretary

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Speaker 2: sat on the board of the Federal Reserve. That got

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Speaker 2: changed decades ago. But the and typically the FED hasn't

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Speaker 2: actually usually been at odds when the president. They try

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Speaker 2: to help the economy grow. They don't get in the

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Speaker 2: way of presidential policy. Jerdan Powell is actually probably compromised

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Speaker 2: a bit of the Fed's independence by being so vocally

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Speaker 2: an opponent of the tariffs. You know, Trump's signature policy

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Speaker 2: has been under fire and criticized by the FED. That's unusual.

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Speaker 2: The last time it happened really was probably Arthur Burns

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Speaker 2: when Jimmy Carter came in and Burns was critical of

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Speaker 2: the Democrats economic plans. But Burns actually was probably not

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Speaker 2: independent enough from the Nixon administration and kept rates low,

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Speaker 2: helping spur inflation back then. So it's not really true

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Speaker 2: that they're always independent. It would probably be good to

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Speaker 2: have them be independent, but not in a way that

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Speaker 2: interferes with the political process. They need to stay keep

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Speaker 2: their distance from that. Alan Greenspan was good at keeping

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Speaker 2: his distance of that. Frankly, so is Bernanki and even

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Speaker 2: yelling were better than what Powell has done, which has

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Speaker 2: really been to enmesh himself in the politics of the day,

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Speaker 2: which is a mistake.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he says he's like a financial Fauci, isn't he

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Speaker 1: kind of.

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Speaker 2: I love that idea, he really so. One thing that

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Speaker 2: you can notice about how he thinks about his role

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Speaker 2: is when Ben Bernanke began doing press conferences, he only

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Speaker 2: did them every other meeting, and he did them sitting

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Speaker 2: behind the desk. It was like going to office hours

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Speaker 2: like the economics professor. Powell changed that he does them

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Speaker 2: every meeting, and he doesn't standing up at a podium

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Speaker 2: as if he were an elected official. That I think

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Speaker 2: was intentional. It's made him a lot more visible, and frankly,

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Speaker 2: it makes him a bigger part of the political process.

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Speaker 2: Which again, if the FED wants to preserve its independence,

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Speaker 2: it needs to stay out of politics. It needs to

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Speaker 2: stay in its own lane. The next guy should probably

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Speaker 2: not hold a press conference every meeting, or at the

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Speaker 2: very least go back to the days where Yellen and

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Speaker 2: Bernanki did it from behind a desk. Don't try to

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Speaker 2: stand up there and look like your press conference is,

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Speaker 2: you know, a White House press conference, which is what

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Speaker 2: they look like.

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Speaker 1: Hey, John, Connie, WILLI on a minute left. But for

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Speaker 1: somebody might say to themselves, well, the president wants rates

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Speaker 1: lowered if the economy is going to do so well

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Speaker 1: if it's booming. Do you need rates?

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Speaker 2: Lord, The weakest part of the economy is the right

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Speaker 2: now is the part that is most exposed to interest rates,

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Speaker 2: which is the housing market. We probably need rates lower

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Speaker 2: to unfreeze the housing market. A lot of people have

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Speaker 2: the situation where they are. They got a low interest

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Speaker 2: rate mortgage back during the pandemic. They might want to

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Speaker 2: sell today, but they would have to trade into a

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Speaker 2: much higher interest rate mortgage, so they feel locked in.

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Speaker 2: That's met very low supply of existing homes on the market,

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Speaker 2: and that's pushed up prices a lot. We may get

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Speaker 2: some if we bring rates down. I think we'll get

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Speaker 2: some resolution to that.

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Speaker 1: All the brilliant John Carney Read him every day bright

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Speaker 1: Bart Business Digest and make sure you sign up for

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Speaker 1: his daily newsletter. It's brilliant stuff every day bright Bart

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Speaker 1: Business Digest, the daily newsletter. John Carney, thanks for being.

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Speaker 2: With us, Thanks for having me Mark, I.

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Speaker 1: Take care, Hey, everybody. Also, don't forget Buck and Clay

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Speaker 1: at noon today. I love their show noon to three

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Speaker 1: every day, and then at three o'clock they'll most listen

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Speaker 1: to radio show in the world. Sean Hannity, Jesse Kelly

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Speaker 1: at six and every night now we've got Jimmy Fail.

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating, it's funny, it's a great show every night

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Speaker 1: at nine, seven, ten, Woor