1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: I was addicted from go to a Netflix show about 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Lucy let Be, the British neonatal nerves convicted of murdering 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: seven babies, attempting to murder seven more. It's got extensive 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: interrogation videos. 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 2: What could have caused this? It sheds some light on. 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: The theories that she wasn't guilty, that it was in 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: fact maybe a plot to frame her. 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: Anyway, it's all part of our True Crime Tuesday. 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 3: The story is true, that's true. 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: No, it sounds made up. I don't know. 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 3: Gary and Shannon present True Crime. 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: Now, before we get to Lucy let Be, we do 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: have breaking news on the true crime front, and that 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: is out of Arizona where the sheriff announced there was 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: no DNA hit on that black glove found two miles 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: from Nancy Guthrie's home. No DNA hit from cotis Who 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: who is involved in codis well. I believe it's something 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: like twenty seven million people in that database, people who 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: have been arrested, felons, DNA from crime scenes, missing persons, 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: all of that that was on a glove again that 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: they found about two miles. The DNA was tested in 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: Florida and then they had to bring it back to 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: Arizona before it could be entered into the CODIS system. 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: The FBI cannot use the CODAS system unless the item 25 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: in question is tested in the state where it was found, 26 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: so that's why there was some delay. So they brought 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: it back to Arizona and they have sent it out. 28 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: It's a type of testing PCR test, and the process 29 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: went pretty quickly. Cotis again twenty seven million DNA profiles 30 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: in the CODA system and it was not a hit. 31 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: So what they can do in terms of next steps. 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 3: One of the things they can do within CODIS itself 33 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 3: is there are some states that do allow a secondary 34 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 3: search of code IS to potentially find close relatives of 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: somebody who might be in Cotis. That would narrow their 36 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 3: search to one specific family. It's led to several convictions. 37 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 3: We've seen this before. One of them was the Grim 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: Sleeper serial killer, where the uh I his son. Yes, 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 3: it was a close family member who was in Cotis, 40 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: even though the provider, I guess you could say, of 41 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 3: the DNA wasn't originally. If that fails, if they can't 42 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 3: find somebody from the family that's in Cotis, what they 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 3: then can do is what We've said many, many times 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 3: and talked with CC Moore about it. This genetic genealogist 45 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: use that to look in public databases of DNA, which 46 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: would be this family History, Theancestry, dot com, the twenty 47 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 3: three and n and that type of that type of 48 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 3: database where the FBI, in this case, the sheriff, the 49 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 3: Sheriff's department as well, can go to those companies and say, 50 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: here's our here is our DNA sample. Do you have 51 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 3: any relatives as close as you can possibly get to them? 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: And at that point they can hopefully sort of reverse 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 3: engineer a family tree and get closer to a suspect, 54 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 3: if not identify suspect outright. 55 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: There are other tentacles to the investigation. 56 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: News Nation has reported that law enforcement has given some 57 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: gun shops and Tucson about forty names to determine if 58 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: any of those people bought a gun like the one 59 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: the presumed kidnapper was photographed holstering as he approached Nancy's 60 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: door in that footage that was recovered, the footage, the stills, 61 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: all of that. As for how those forty names were selected, 62 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: TMZ reports that authorities have identified that specific type of 63 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: holster the man was wearing, and that they have found 64 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: about forty people in the area who purchased that item. 65 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: So again they've given law enforcement has given gun shops 66 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: in the two area at Tucson area about forty names 67 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: to determine if these people can be cross checked with 68 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: the records at the gun store. 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: We also talked about that that holster, the mask, the sweatshirt, 70 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: the backpack, that they were all products that could be 71 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 3: purchased at Walmart. So Walmart has apparently been very cooperative 72 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 3: with law enforcement trying to going through their database to 73 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 3: see did anybody come and buy all of those things 74 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 3: at once, or did somebody buy a couple of those 75 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 3: items at once, Did they buy them all at one Walmart? 76 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 3: Did they buy them online? That sort of thing, because 77 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: that would bring up hopefully they could cross reference with 78 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 3: that list of other forty names. 79 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: And then finally TMZ says they're not going to talk 80 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: about the man who has sent them various demand letters 81 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: asking for one hundred thousand dollars in bitcoin in return 82 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: for the identity of the kidnapper and the location of Nancy. 83 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: Of course, TMZ has said if this guy who's been 84 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: in contact with them at least through several letters, a 85 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: couple two or three. 86 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: That they would immediately ford it to the FBI. 87 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: There would be a record of the information, which is 88 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: one of the ways they try to get this guy 89 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: to talk to them. Hey, we have a record of 90 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: you saying you know where this where she is? Let 91 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: us know where she is and there's a record and 92 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: you get the one hundred thousand dollars reward. So apparently 93 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: nothing has come of fruition. Otherwise, you know, you would 94 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: hear about it from TMC. Do you remember the case 95 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: of Lucy let Be. 96 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 3: I do, vaguely. I do know there have been I'm 97 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 3: more aware of the shows that have been made about 98 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: the case than I was about the case originally. 99 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: Well. 100 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: Yes, This is the fifth documentary that has been produced 101 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: in the wake of Lucy let Be's convictions in twenty 102 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: twenty three and twenty twenty four convictions on seven counts 103 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: of murder and seven of attempted murder of babies under 104 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: her care at the Countess of Chester Hospital. The fifth 105 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: documentary She's obviously British. This Netflix documentary just dropped in. 106 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: It's been in the top ten since it did a 107 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: few weeks ago, and some say it's reigniting the whole case, 108 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: and it does cast a lot of doubt on the 109 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: convictions because you hear so much from the defendant. You 110 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: hear so much from Lucy let Be in the eyes 111 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: of her best friend that was with her all through 112 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: school and nursing school, and you hear from Lucy let 113 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: Be in the interrogation videos. She is a very capable nurse. 114 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 1: She doesn't appear to be crazy at all. It looks 115 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: like some evidence was planted slash potentially doctored, but there's 116 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: no mistake about the fact that seven babies had died 117 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: and then seven attempt murders of babies as well. And 118 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: there's this weird, tenuous, vague theory that this documentary raises 119 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: about the fact that Lucy let Be was kind of 120 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: not kind of She was bullied by the other nurses 121 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: in this hospital, so much so that her friend who's 122 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: interviewed extensively, so I can't believe Lucy would stay at 123 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: that hospital. They just didn't get along for whatever reason. 124 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: Lucy had said that it was because she was shy 125 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: and withdrawn and that's why the other nurses didn't take 126 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: a liking to her. But it's almost like a weird, 127 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: tenuous claim that she was framed for this. 128 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 3: Well, I guess part of the belief in those that 129 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 3: would defend her say that the conviction on the basis 130 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 3: of what was gathered was not right, most of that 131 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: none of the babies was murdered by her, but that 132 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: in fact they were victims of what was chronically understaffed 133 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: hospital at the time the Countess of Chester Hospital, that 134 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 3: it was a mismanaged unit, and that all of those deaths. 135 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 3: The one thing that they may be able to put 136 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 3: in common is that she was co located, I mean 137 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: geographically she was there at the time and then used 138 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 3: her as the scapegoat. 139 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the other theory that seems to hold 140 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: the most water in this documentary. Not to ruin it 141 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: for anybody, but it is underfunded, as most nursing departments are. 142 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: This was another department underfunded, that the ratio wasn't great 143 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: and a trial they pointed out well, as soon as 144 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: she was reassigned or she was moved off that floor, 145 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: that the number of sick babies or collapsed babies is 146 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: how they refer to it in the documentary and in Britain, 147 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: that that went away. But at the same time that 148 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: she was reassigned, the unit was downgraded, which meant fewer 149 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: sick babies being placed in that unit as well. 150 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: This is it's one of those. 151 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: That it's hard to wrap your head around because who 152 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: would want to kill babies, especially ania onatal nurse who 153 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: chooses to be there. And this woman, when you hear 154 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: her talk, she is exactly what the antithesis of a monster. 155 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: I mean, she just seems like a capable nurse. 156 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: Here's the other part about this that I think is 157 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 3: it does discredits the genre of documentary. It's still entertainment. 158 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: You're still trying to get people to watch this, to 159 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 3: talk about it, to have other people watch it as well. 160 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 3: And one of the things that they apparently do is 161 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 3: they talk with a mother of one of the babies. Now, overly, 162 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: emotional evidence or testimony like this would not have been 163 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: allowed in court because it does or it would could 164 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 3: bias the jury. But you're not and solely for the 165 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 3: purpose of emotionally manipulating the jury. But in the event 166 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 3: that you do it in a documentary, it's perfectly okay. 167 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: But I'll say this, I've seen it. I saw the documentary. 168 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: Have you seen it? Okay, I've seen it, and so 169 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: I took in all of what that mother said. It 170 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: would all have been admissible in court. She's entirely unemotional. 171 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 3: Really, yes, how do the. 172 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: British are different? The British are different when it comes 173 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: to emotions. You'd fit in very well there. They don't 174 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: show them. She obviously is devastated. They went on to 175 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: have another baby. But she's obviously devastated. But it would 176 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: be completely admissible the interviews that she gave because they. 177 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: Lack emotion well, and even in this case, they said 178 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: that they are going to revisit. Reports are with the 179 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: Criminal Cases Review Commission there in the UK, and the 180 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: decision is expected sometime in the fall about whether or 181 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: not to retry on some of these or do something, 182 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 3: if anything, vacate the verdict or something like that. 183 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: We'll keep what you watch in Wednesday tomorrow around this 184 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: time a day, let us know what you are watching. 185 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: One of my girlfriends told me I had to watch 186 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: the Next Top Model or the Top Model documentary on Netflix. 187 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: I'll check that out. Finished Love is Blind. Every season 188 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: I say, I'm not watching that show anymore. And there 189 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 1: I am a clown watching the show again, and this 190 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: one is Everyone's from Ohio and boy are they and 191 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: boy are they? Let us know what you are watching. 192 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: Hit us up on the Talkbacker on social media at 193 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: Garyan Channon