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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to TJ. Watt just the moment. It's

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Speaker 1: the second minute.

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Speaker 2: It snil, Neil.

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Speaker 1: Expect frequent updates on this mfor uh, this is the

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Speaker 1: Mark Madden Show. I am indeed a hunk a hunk

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Speaker 1: up burning love number to call for calls on the

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Speaker 1: fifteenth and call call right now. I'll put you on

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Speaker 1: right now because if you if I should have done

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Speaker 1: the hour with Tom in the three o'clock hour so

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Speaker 1: he could talk and I could watch the game. But

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Speaker 1: I didn't do that, So call now A three three

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Speaker 1: four one two w XDX. Let's get to TJ. Watt,

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Speaker 1: Theodore James Watts. He's the invisible man. I mean he's

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Speaker 1: had a couple okay games, but for forty one million,

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Speaker 1: that crazy big deal.

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Speaker 2: You expect more than okay. Yeah, he had to pick.

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Speaker 1: Off on that deflected ball against Baltimore, but he didn't

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Speaker 1: know too much about it.

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Speaker 2: That was on the lucky side of the street.

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Speaker 1: What had six games this year with no sacks, three

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Speaker 1: more games with only half a sack? How do you

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Speaker 1: get half a sack? That contract extension was a mistake.

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Speaker 1: It will be an albatross around the neck of the

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Speaker 1: Steelers moving forward. But okay, TJ. Maybe I'm full of crap.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I pick on you, Maybe I don't like the

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Speaker 1: Watt family. Okay, have a big game Monday night. Go

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Speaker 1: out there and win the game Monday night. Earn that deal.

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Speaker 1: Pay your bills, even if it's only for one night.

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Speaker 1: In one win, which would be my god. It's pouring

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Speaker 1: in London, absolutely pouring. Call the game, split the points.

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Speaker 2: It'll be TJ. Wat's first ever playoff win. Wat had won.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the stats do not do him any favors.

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Speaker 1: What had only one multiple sack game all year? He

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Speaker 1: never had a true TJ. Watt game. You know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? He never had a true TJ.

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Speaker 2: Watt game.

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Speaker 1: Well, on Monday, that's exactly what the Steelers need, a

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Speaker 1: real Tjwatt game, not a real expensive brand of vanilla.

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Speaker 1: Prove it, TJ. It's time to pay your bills. It's

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Speaker 1: time to prove it.

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Speaker 2: Walk the aisle, Gym.

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Speaker 1: Teacher, walk the aisle that number to call again, eight

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Speaker 1: three to three. Look at our Teta looking like a

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Speaker 1: drowned rap. Then again, art manager with that bald head

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Speaker 1: and the rain. Just ricohetan off it uh this game

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Speaker 1: on Monday should be a crossroads. Now, it should determine

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Speaker 1: the future direction of the Steelers. But oh god, first

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Speaker 1: offensive thrust they have, they get behind our guys.

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Speaker 2: But bad pass. Uh. If the Steelers lose money, very

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Speaker 2: little change.

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Speaker 1: Fire a coordinator, a token sacrifice or two run it back,

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Speaker 1: get even older.

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Speaker 2: But if you want to shut me up, just went

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Speaker 2: on Monday. He went on Monday.

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Speaker 1: I'd still get rid of Tom Went, but at least

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Speaker 1: then they could justify not. I still wouldn't bring back Rogers,

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Speaker 1: but at least then they could justify not.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Here's my scenarios, good and bad, good times, bad times.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot of music references today, Bowie's birthday,

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Speaker 1: Elvis's birthday.

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Speaker 2: Here's my scenarios.

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Speaker 1: Rogers throws for three hundred yards, or Rogers gets broken

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Speaker 1: into by Houston's pass rush, Boswell hits the game winner

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Speaker 1: at the buzzer, or Boswell kicks it up Kotsis wrecked

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Speaker 1: him at the buzzer. Had to be careful how I

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Speaker 1: pronounced that an odd mix of words?

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Speaker 2: There?

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Speaker 1: Uh, that's off side, offside? Good call? What gets five

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Speaker 1: sacks or what goes to the blue tent and gets

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Speaker 1: stabbed in the other lung. DK catches a touchdown or

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Speaker 1: DK catches a beating because he punches the wrong fan.

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Speaker 1: You know, I thought about that. I mean, DK knew

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Speaker 1: the guy with the blue hair in Detroit was no threat.

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Speaker 1: What if it would have punched like a guy, I

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Speaker 1: mean a guy that looked like that but had a

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Speaker 1: black belt, kind of like when Chelsea punched the cheese

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Speaker 1: guy in that seventies show. Chris Masterson didn't know he

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Speaker 1: was a black belt. Chris masters to beat the heck

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Speaker 1: out of him. I'm getting really obscured today and I

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Speaker 1: like it.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: My safest prediction is bored him, over ted him by

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Speaker 1: a fumble, and that might benefit the Steelers. We need

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Speaker 1: to protect the ball better. You're gonna hear that Monday

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Speaker 1: night too. It's gonna be like thirteen twelve or ten nine.

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Speaker 1: Somebody said this on Twitter. No. A friend of mine

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Speaker 1: texted this. I always call games like this a Tom

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Speaker 1: win type of game, a rock fight. A friend of

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Speaker 1: my texted, this will be a rock fight without enough rocks,

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Speaker 1: so you have thirteen twelve, ten nine. I feel like

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Speaker 1: Hunter might fried Dilan Cook and kill Rogers.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I hope it's a real rock fight

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Speaker 2: with actual rocks.

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Speaker 1: And the notion that DK might get owned by Stingley,

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Speaker 1: their Pro Bowl cornerback.

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Speaker 2: And what you're gonna do? Brother?

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Speaker 1: Why do they gotta win that battle? I hear that

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Speaker 1: all the time. I hear excuses made in advance. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean Stingley's really good. Maybe the tight ends can

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Speaker 1: can get open. You know, why is it always assumed

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Speaker 1: that our guy can't win that battle? Like I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: I'm not just assuming Joey Porter Junior does a good

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Speaker 1: job on Nico Collins. I'd guarantee it, well pretty close.

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Speaker 1: I feel strongly about it. I mean, why do we

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Speaker 1: assume the other teams could have win a battle like that?

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Speaker 1: Why can't fought Tim and stop Anderson? But that gives

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Speaker 1: me back to Dylan Cook and Hunter. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: like expecting Saran Rap to stop a hurricane force wind.

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Speaker 1: And I don't care how good that Dylan Cook has

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Speaker 1: done so far, and he has, but this is a

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Speaker 1: different situation. It's a playoff game, and Hunter man, he

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Speaker 1: is a different cat. He is gonna be Oh god, okay,

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Speaker 1: we cleared that that's no foul play anyway, calling out.

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Speaker 1: You gotta calling out. If you don't calling out, this

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Speaker 1: next segment's in trouble. I'm gonna tell you it was

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Speaker 1: all I could do to get through this one ninth minute.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, put that on the score.

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Speaker 1: Arsenal lost one nil at Liverpool in August thirty first,

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Speaker 1: which is a.

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Speaker 2: Very long time ago. One oh five nine the X.

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Speaker 4: It's the show. Oh got t X at one o

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Speaker 4: five nine. Let's see that is.

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Speaker 1: Gang Red Beach one of his projects, black Swan with

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Speaker 1: MSG singer Michael Shanker singer Robin McCauley on vocals. Great

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Speaker 1: stuff with the Winger and Whitesnake done. Maybe black Swan

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Speaker 1: can get out on the road. I'd love to see it.

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Speaker 1: Great guitar work there by Rebellious. The number to call

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Speaker 1: eight three three four one two WSDX it is calls

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Speaker 1: on the fifteens, Neil Mill in the seventeens, the seventeenth minute.

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Speaker 1: Uh got a viewing party for the Penguins on Sunday

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Speaker 1: five pm at Pittsburgh Brewing Company just off through twenty

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Speaker 1: eight in Creighton, and then the same location with the

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Speaker 1: Steelers and Houston the next night at eight pm.

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Speaker 2: So join me Sunday and Monday.

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Speaker 1: To watch games and drink icy light at Pittsburgh Brewing

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Speaker 1: Company in Creighton, the big brewery, biggest big screen TV

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Speaker 1: you can imagine. And those uh we've had I think

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Speaker 1: three of those there already this year and they've all

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Speaker 1: got a lot of people, have been a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: Let's go to Zach. Zach, you're on with Mark.

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Speaker 4: Mark.

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Speaker 2: How you doing great?

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Speaker 1: Zach?

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Speaker 5: As I predicted the Steelers have beaten the Gravens and

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Speaker 5: they're gonna go on and they are gonna beat the

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Speaker 5: Houston Texas Aaron Rodgers, Jalen Warren, and I can hear you.

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Speaker 1: Mark, you're becoming a believer too.

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Speaker 2: No, no, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not really, but I would like to

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Speaker 1: see it happen because it's what's best for business. But uh,

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Speaker 1: as you predicted, nobody knows who you are. But thank

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Speaker 1: you for the call, Zach. Let's go to Nick.

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Speaker 5: Nick. Hey, Mark, I was listening to you on DV

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Speaker 5: early and I was hoping you could explain a little further.

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Speaker 5: You mentioned what when yesterday one, no, this morning, I

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Speaker 5: was on this morning.

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Speaker 1: Your I thought you were on this, you were on

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Speaker 1: this maybe anyway, what what did I say maybe they

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Speaker 1: played me back.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you mentioned that if the Steelers win the player

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Speaker 5: game that you would be less critical. I was curious about.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I said that sarcastically. I mean, I I

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Speaker 1: think this team needs a massive overhaul. I think even

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Speaker 1: if they win a playoff game, they're just an old

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Speaker 1: team that gets older, too expensive, tough to change, same coach,

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Speaker 1: and running it back is not what I would do.

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Speaker 1: But hey, whatever you guys want. It's not a team

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Speaker 1: I support, so I can just criticize. But I honestly

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Speaker 1: don't care. If that makes sense.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it makes complete sense because I don't believe like,

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Speaker 5: if they do win, which I think they will, I

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Speaker 5: would not give the credit to Tomlin, which most people would.

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Speaker 5: But that's why I was confused, because I kind of

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Speaker 5: think you think the same thing.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you. I'll give you an example.

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Speaker 1: If Tomlin wins his first playoff game, it would be

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Speaker 1: one in nine seasons. That means he's batting one to eleven,

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Speaker 1: which well, I mean, I guess you could catch for

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Speaker 1: the Pirates and be Henry Davis, but it's not a

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Speaker 1: good batting average.

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Speaker 5: He also has a worse record than Harball in the playoffs.

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Speaker 2: Oh, much worse than of Harball.

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Speaker 5: And here's a an interesting fact because I did talk.

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Speaker 1: In a much in a much worse, a much worse

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Speaker 1: record than harmon the playoffs and then his predecessor, uh

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Speaker 1: Bill Cower in the playoffs.

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Speaker 5: Yes, the Steelers are third in the league with tight

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Speaker 5: end targets with one hundred and fifty five, which was

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Speaker 5: very sad.

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Speaker 1: That seem that seems hard to believe, but I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that's because a lot of those were just token two

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Speaker 1: yard targets like to the fat Kid whatnot.

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Speaker 5: And I agree with you one hundred percent. I think

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Speaker 5: they need to target more, especially with better targets in

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Speaker 5: the middle. But I am I am pleased that at

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Speaker 5: least Rogers does target them a lot more than most

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Speaker 5: of the quarterbacks have in the pass for the Steelers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, isn't it more about what the

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Speaker 1: targets lead to and if they can produce a coherent

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Speaker 1: game plan? And I don't know, it's a results based business,

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Speaker 1: but as Tom and I talked about yesterday, I think

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Speaker 1: it was there's.

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Speaker 2: So many stats now in every sport that you can.

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Speaker 1: Find a stat to make it seem like things are

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Speaker 1: going better than they are.

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Speaker 2: For me.

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Speaker 5: It equates to the most of the time, a majority

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Speaker 5: of the time in the past, including recent whoever utilizes

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Speaker 5: their tight ends the best, especially the ones with the

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Speaker 5: elite tight ends normally win the Super Bowl even more

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Speaker 5: than anywhere near.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, but again that's a self that's a

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Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy, though, I mean, how many elite tight

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Speaker 1: ends are there. It's kind of like when when when

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Speaker 1: I say, and I've said it frequently, Nick, that the

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Speaker 1: Steelers have trouble with an elite tight end, like in

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Speaker 1: the past when they've played Mark Andrews or whoever, right,

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Speaker 1: and then I amended by saying, then again, elite tight

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Speaker 1: ends give every team's defense trouble.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and let's be fair. I mean, the ones that

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Speaker 5: have won the Super Bowl have been a lot majority

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Speaker 5: of Kelsey and Gronkowski.

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Speaker 1: Always thrown to him, not just that arm, but that mind.

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Speaker 1: And the same goes with Mahomes and Kelsey too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely, man, thank you so much. I always enjoy

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Speaker 5: listening to you and agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I was hoping we could drag it out a little

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Speaker 1: longer so I could watch the game and not like

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Speaker 1: look at my notes.

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Speaker 2: Uh call now eight three three four one two w

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Speaker 2: x X. Who's up next?

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Speaker 1: Josh Showey who if Arsenal scored during his appearance? I

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Speaker 1: will I will blame him. It's still knowing the old

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Speaker 1: twenty second minute. I'm not gonna lie to you. What's

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Speaker 1: the phrase I'm looking for? Oh yeah, being on played badly,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean you can't win. One O five

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Speaker 1: nine the X.

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Speaker 4: Tonight's the Pens take on the Devils. Game time is seven.

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Speaker 3: Our coverage starts at six here every game, and the

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Speaker 3: best coverage right here on your home of the Pens.

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Speaker 4: One five nine the X.

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Speaker 6: Much high.

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Speaker 3: It's finny food. So you gonna set me on fire,

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Speaker 3: brain flame.

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Speaker 6: I don't know which fighting good.

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Speaker 2: Elvis would have been ninety one today, still the King.

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Speaker 1: I think playing playing burning Love adds a little perspective,

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Speaker 1: maybe too much effing perspective. Liverpoo had a good five

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Speaker 1: minute spell and hit the crossbar. Still nil nil in

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Speaker 1: the thirtieth minute. Now I'm joined out of Talk Hockey

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Speaker 1: by the great Josh Owey of the Athletic Josh Gino.

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Speaker 1: Seems very probable for tonight. What are you hearing? And

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Speaker 1: do we yet know what his injury even is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Mark, I do think he's going to play. He's

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Speaker 5: looked really good in practice this week. He looked perfectly

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Speaker 5: good to go, all he told us was and he

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Speaker 5: was more open than the most athletes are as Geno

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Speaker 5: tends to be. He said he woke up the day

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Speaker 5: after the game in Tampa and he couldn't move his arm,

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Speaker 5: and he mentioned specifically his shoulder, So I know I

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Speaker 5: will take that as it was some kind of a

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Speaker 5: shoulder injury or shoulder separation. Of odd that he wouldn't

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Speaker 5: feel it until the next morning, of course, but it

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Speaker 5: does appear to be shoulder related from what I could tell.

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Speaker 1: Are you surprised Novak is staying at center between the

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Speaker 1: twin towers Mantha and Braso, and Gino's apparently going to

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Speaker 1: be at wing.

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Speaker 5: Right, That's what it looks like. I'm really surprised. I

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Speaker 5: thought you would put Malkin right in between Braso and Mantha,

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Speaker 5: which obviously that line really worked, and I had assumed,

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Speaker 5: especially with mcgordy Aldi, you would just see Novak slide

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Speaker 5: over to wing and play on the third line with

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Speaker 5: Ben Kendall.

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Speaker 1: Because Novak can kindall had played okay together earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: Not great, but there was a level of communication.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Novak's just playing so much better now than he

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Speaker 5: was in October two.

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Speaker 2: He still saw that way.

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Speaker 5: Well, I thought it would have made sense. I'm a

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Speaker 5: little surprised by the configuration. I'm a little surprised that

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Speaker 5: Malkin is shifting over to wing. Not that he can't

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Speaker 5: do it, just that he was playing so well. It's

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Speaker 5: surprising to me that they would make this decision. But

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Speaker 5: clearly they like no Back at center. And I will

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Speaker 5: tell you this, Mark just from getting to know Dan

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Speaker 5: Mues this season. You know, I think no Back's okay.

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Speaker 5: And I know you're not a huge fan of his either,

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Speaker 5: but Dan Mues seems to really like him, like he

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Speaker 5: thinks he I think he sees things in him that

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Speaker 5: maybe we don't put it that way.

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Speaker 2: I got a vent here for a second.

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Speaker 1: It's still nil nil, Josh, but but Arsenal's players are

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Speaker 1: going down quicker than a Flyer fans sister near the

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Speaker 1: Kate Smith statue. This is starting to get me pissed off. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Cangino play wing. I mean that that's the big discussed.

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Speaker 1: I think he seems have been slow to play wing,

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Speaker 1: not least to play with Kindle and Chinnikov.

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Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean he is slow to play wing,

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Speaker 5: that's but one good thing about playing wing is it

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Speaker 5: doesn't have as many defensive responsibilities as playing center, and

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Speaker 5: that's never been the strength of his game. Maybe in

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Speaker 5: that sense you can hide them a little bit. And

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Speaker 5: I was actually surprised. Now, granted, this is playing with Sid,

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Speaker 5: so maybe that changes things. But Gina was really good

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Speaker 5: on the wing last year. You will recall Sid had

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Speaker 5: to slow start and they put Gino and Sid together

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Speaker 5: for a few games and it really worked.

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Speaker 2: And that was the first time it ever worked. That's right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's right.

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Speaker 5: And Malkin played the wing and he actually was pretty

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Speaker 5: good at it. So I don't know if that's part

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Speaker 5: of why they're trying this with that in the back

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Speaker 5: of their minds. We will see, But I get it.

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Speaker 5: You don't want to move Kendall from center. He's very

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Speaker 5: clearly a center. Sid is Sid, and for whatever reason,

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Speaker 5: they're comfortable with no back at center. So okay, I

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Speaker 5: get it. On some level. If they struggle at all,

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Speaker 5: I'm sure you'll see Malkin head back to center. And

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Speaker 5: one thing to keep in mind also, Malcolin and Novak

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Speaker 5: haven't really played much together this season. Malcoin I know

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Speaker 5: this for a fact. He went to Kyle Dubas and

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Speaker 5: the coaching staff this summer and told them that he

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Speaker 5: wanted to play with Novak at some point because he

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Speaker 5: really liked him and thought their games would mesh. For

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Speaker 5: whatever that's worth, we haven't really seen it yet, maybe

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Speaker 5: we will at some point.

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Speaker 2: What are your initial impressions of the new guy Tinnakoff.

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Speaker 5: He's physically impressive, is what I would say. In his

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Speaker 5: first game against Detroit, he had a burst of speed

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Speaker 5: down the right wing, We're like WHOA, Like, Okay, this

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Speaker 5: guy's got serious wheels. Yeah, And watching him shoot the

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Speaker 5: puck mark like it just comes off of his stick

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Speaker 5: a little different. I mean, so he has all the

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Speaker 5: physical attributes. If you're building a guy in a video game,

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Speaker 5: he'd have a really good score because he's got all

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Speaker 5: those physical gifts. I don't know about his hockey IQ yet.

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Speaker 5: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I just

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Speaker 5: haven't seen him play enough. But I think he's a

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Speaker 5: very intriguing player and you talk with other players around

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Speaker 5: the league and players in the Penguins locker room. Boy,

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Speaker 5: they sure knew who he was. He's a guy that

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Speaker 5: gets their attention. And he's only four years old. So

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Speaker 5: because of all of that, I get it. With Russ

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Speaker 5: and Raquel get into their mid thirties, now, he could

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Speaker 5: be a guy sooner rather than later that at least

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Speaker 5: has the talent to be a legitimate top six winner.

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Speaker 1: Is the fourth line as impressive and as important as

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Speaker 1: everybody's making out? And I'm not being dismissive, Josh, I

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Speaker 1: find myself considering.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the numbers are what they are, right. The

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Speaker 5: Penguins are a really good team, and that's their fourth line,

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Speaker 5: and it's been terrific. It's been a catalyst, I think

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Speaker 5: a lot of it. And I'm not trying to take

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Speaker 5: anything away from Door, who's actually pretty solid in a chari,

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Speaker 5: who has at least exceeded expectations. But I think Blake

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Speaker 5: Losat's the guy who makes that line go.

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Speaker 1: And further, I think without either Lazatte or a Chari,

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Speaker 1: the line suffers.

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Speaker 2: I think they they absolutely got to have both.

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Speaker 5: You might be right and Lazza, I mean Lazztte has

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Speaker 5: really been one of the more valuable players. That's not deniable.

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Speaker 5: He is so good defensively, He's such a pest, he

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Speaker 5: creates turnovers. He's exactly what a fourth line center is

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Speaker 5: supposed to be. He really is. He's basically doing a

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Speaker 5: lot of the things that Matt Cullen did a decade ago.

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Speaker 5: Not as big of a guy as Colin, but there

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Speaker 5: are some similarities, so I think he's the most important guy.

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Speaker 5: You can always make that line better, though, I mean

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Speaker 5: when they're completely healthy, Like I'd be okay with Rutger

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Speaker 5: McGroarty playing with him on a fourth line role, like

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Speaker 5: that's fine. That he's a better player than Connor Doer,

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Speaker 5: so that and that will help him develop perhaps, I

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Speaker 5: don't know. So there are different things they can try.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't have to be those three guys. But to me,

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Speaker 5: it's just Lozatte is so important to this team. That's

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Speaker 5: been made very clear. And I get the other two

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Speaker 5: guys credit that line. Sometimes lines just work, you know,

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Speaker 5: and that that line clearly works.

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Speaker 1: Talking to Josh Joi of The Athletic Here on the

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Speaker 1: Mark Madden Show, Josh was that defensive effort in Detroit,

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Speaker 1: a turning point or just a fluke. My god, they

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Speaker 1: only got twelve shots, an all time low for a

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Speaker 1: road game in franchise history.

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Speaker 2: I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing. Neither could I.

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Speaker 5: It's probably something of a fluke, and they gave up

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Speaker 5: four goals the next day, so I think that might

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Speaker 5: have been fairly telling. But I also think it shows them,

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Speaker 5: you know, how they can try to play. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I would go back to even Mike Sullivan for years now.

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Speaker 5: He couldn't get them to do it, unfortunately, but he

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Speaker 5: would always say, you know, if we would just take

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Speaker 5: care of our own zone first, like the goals will come.

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Speaker 5: We still have enough talent, but these guys always want

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Speaker 5: to push, and you know he's right. And that game

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Speaker 5: in Detroit, well, I couldn't believe what I was watching.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that was a defensive clinic of all time.

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Speaker 5: And we also thought, by the way, the first game

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Speaker 5: of the season in New York, that's the game it

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Speaker 5: reminded me of. In fact, I just don't think the

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Speaker 5: Penguins have enough good defensive players to really play that

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Speaker 5: way all the time, but it was encouraging to see

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Speaker 5: that they were at least capable of it, and clearly, Mark,

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Speaker 5: since the holiday break, this is an entirely different hockey team.

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Speaker 5: I keep asking players, and I've asked Dan Muse what

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Speaker 5: was said to make things different, and nobody seems to

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Speaker 5: think anything at all was different. They just needed a break.

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Speaker 5: Maybe that's the case, but boy, have they been a

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Speaker 5: different team.

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Speaker 2: Didn't News turn a corner?

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Speaker 1: I think it's too early to tell, but I was

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Speaker 1: doubting his confidence at this level quite frankly, but the

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Speaker 1: Penguins have not looked disheveled during this five game win streak.

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Speaker 1: Then again, maybe it's because it's a five game win streak.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he made an interesting comment to me.

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Speaker 5: I was actually in his office the other day and actually, let.

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Speaker 2: Me interrupt, Josh.

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Speaker 1: I've probably been doing critical on him, but just trying

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Speaker 1: the franchise, trying to split the difference between contending and rebuilding,

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Speaker 1: has just gone on too effing long now and it's

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Speaker 1: driving me nuts.

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Speaker 5: Well, and you know, even when you look at this season, Mark, listen,

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Speaker 5: the Penguins are a few good story we I think

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Speaker 5: we've all enjoyed being around them and how entertaining they've

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Speaker 5: been they're in playoff position. Nobody expected that. But really,

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Speaker 5: other than Ben Kendall, how many young players have had

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Speaker 5: a big impact on the team this season. Well, they're

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Speaker 5: in playoff position because guys like Carlson and Malkin have

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Speaker 5: been a lot better this season, and guys like Mantha

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Speaker 5: have come in and you know, played really well, Like

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Speaker 5: those are all guys in their thirties. So this isn't

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Speaker 5: you know, a situation where the Penguins are making themselves

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Speaker 5: better or doing a great job of developing young players

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Speaker 5: this season necessarily. The fact is, you know, coiven and

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Speaker 5: and McGroarty I think especially Coyvanan have been very disappointing.

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00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 5: I mean you can go down the list. Ohen Pickering

437
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 5: didn't even make the team. So it hasn't necessarily been

438
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 5: a great few months for you know, the Penguins for

439
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 5: five years from now, even though they're winning. So I

440
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 5: kind of get the situation uses in I know you've

441
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 5: been talking a lot about you know, McGroarty should be

442
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 5: in the lineup no matter what. Maybe coiven in two

443
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 5: and I hear you, but they're to the point now,

444
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 5: mark like they're on pace for almost one hundred points.

445
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 5: Like if you miss the playoffs by a point, you

446
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 5: could argue that it's just been a complete disaster. At

447
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 5: least make the playoffs if that's the goal, and unfortunately

448
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 5: it might be the older guys that are going to

449
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 5: help them in the short term.

450
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 4: Mark well in that vein.

451
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: If the organizational goal now, as you've written recently at

452
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: the athletic, if it's to make the playoffs, then put

453
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: more Shoff in goal.

454
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 2: In Pittsburgh, he's your best goalie.

455
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 5: Well, I don't disagree with that, and he's had a

456
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 5: couple of bad games and books very recently, but which is.

457
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 2: Noteworthy opposed in Pittsburgh.

458
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 5: Right, Skinner's been much better the last couple of games,

459
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 5: but you know he's limited physically. Everybody knows that she

460
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 5: loves has you know, not been particularly good. Now the

461
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 5: Penguins are not a good defensive team. That's going to

462
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 5: impact goaltending. But all the more reason perhaps to bring

463
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 5: Miroshov up. I don't disagree with that, Mark, I don't.

464
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 5: He's clearly their best goaltender. I've seen enough of him

465
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 5: in what four games at the NHL level.

466
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: To Josh, we both talk to people in the organization.

467
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: They think he's the best goaltender too. I mean, you

468
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: can't just reserve the little goaltending corner of the season

469
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: for development and compromise that everywhere else.

470
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense.

471
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 5: And I will say this, you know, listen, the development

472
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 5: takes different forms, you know, with different players. But there's

473
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 5: a lot of people out there who have said, oh,

474
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 5: you can't play miroshav behind this kind of a defensive team,

475
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 5: it'll scar him, blah blah blah. I don't agree with that.

476
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 5: If he's going to have the mental toughness to be

477
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 5: a great goaltender in the NHL, he can deal with it.

478
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 5: Marc Andre Fleury got shelled his first year behind a

479
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 5: team that wasn't good defensively. It surely didn't have any

480
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 5: impact on him. If he's ready, he's ready, and I

481
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 5: think he's their best bet. And he has had some

482
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 5: time in the minor leagues. Now maybe it is that time.

483
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 5: If you lose. She loves on waivers. Guess what, it's

484
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 5: not the end of the world.

485
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: What will Dubas do it the deadline? There's no way,

486
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 2: he adds, is there.

487
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 5: Not? In the convention sense? I think at the deadline

488
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 5: you're going to see a lot of pure hockey trades,

489
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 5: if you will, because there's only a couple of teams

490
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 5: that are going to be sellers. Mark. I mean, there

491
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 5: are only three teams in the league right now who

492
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 5: are more than five points out of a playoff spot,

493
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 5: which is incredible. So there's not going to be many sellers.

494
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 5: So what you're going to see is there's maybe a

495
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 5: team like the Penguins needs a defenseman, and maybe they

496
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 5: have a surplus of forwards. So there's a team that's

497
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 5: you know, vice versa in the Western Conference, so maybe

498
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 5: you trade a forward for a defenseman something along those lines.

499
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 5: I could see that. I think Kyle wants to be

500
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 5: active regardless. But I don't see them just you know,

501
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 5: selling a bunch of draft picks and prospects to go

502
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 5: make a run. I don't think it'll be anything like that.

503
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: Are you an interesting story at the Athletic? Arsenal's threatening

504
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: your Josh Hold on a second. Then again, if I

505
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: stop talking every time they threatened, it would be dead. Okay,

506
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: we haven't kind of clear, Okay, following them good? You

507
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: run a story at the Athletic about how SID doesn't

508
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: necessarily play well produce if there's an extra day or

509
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: so between games, like there is in this case, what

510
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: three games between Penguin games.

511
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 2: It's weird, but it's true. At least that's what the

512
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: numbers say. What do you make of that?

513
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 5: Well, and he's told me that when he goes long

514
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 5: periods of time without playing, like his body just doesn't

515
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 5: feel quite right. He doesn't like hele his hands feel.

516
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 5: The more he plays the better. Remember, everyone thought he

517
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 5: might take a day off after the Four Nations tournament

518
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 5: last year because the schedule was so hectic, and I

519
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 5: asked him about it and he looked at me like

520
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 5: I was crazy. He's like, nah, this is when I

521
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 5: feel my best. I like playing every other day. This

522
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 5: is perfect. So I think it comes down to that.

523
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 5: The numbers are incredible. I think it's the last twenty

524
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 5: five games he's played when there have been three days

525
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 5: off or more before the game, he only has three goals.

526
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 5: I think one was an empty netter. He is not effective,

527
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 5: or at least as productive, I should say. And though

528
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 5: it was funny, I brought it up with him a

529
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago, and he started laughing about it

530
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 5: because he knew where I was going and he knew

531
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 5: it was true. But twenty minutes later he comes back

532
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 5: into the locker room and he looks at me and

533
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 5: he goes, hey, you got me questioning my preparation now,

534
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 5: and he started like, course, we both started laughing because

535
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 5: he's the most prepared athlete ever, but he was being

536
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 5: a little bit serious, like it's on his mind now

537
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 5: because he knows it's been an issue he had.

538
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: But he knew that before you talk to him, right, well,

539
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: of course he did.

540
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

541
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: I mean it's like there are some people you can

542
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: about that credit right.

543
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: Well, here they come again, Josh, oh my god, by Ali,

544
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: way to go Alison, New Jersey has struggled. Got bet

545
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: nine to zero by the Islanders on Tuesday. Why aren't

546
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: they as good as has been predicted? I got my ideas,

547
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: but you go ahead.

548
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 5: Well, their blue line is terrible, for one, I mean,

549
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 5: they have really really struggled in that department. I know

550
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 5: that from Washington play. It's just not a good blue

551
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 5: line at all. And they don't have a lot of depth.

552
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 5: And when Jack Hughes got hurt and he missed quite

553
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 5: a bit of time he missed, I forgot it was

554
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 5: six weeks. I think he was out something like that

555
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 5: that you know, he's a real superstar in this league.

556
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 5: I disagree he's really good, but I maybe he's not

557
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 5: a superstar. But I think those are the two leading causes.

558
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 5: Their goaltending hasn't been good. There has given up too

559
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 5: many goals. When you think of the Devils, boy that

560
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 5: that's never what you think of. But that said, they're

561
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 5: always a tough matchup for the Penguins. They rarely play

562
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 5: well against Jersey, so I'm kind of interested to see

563
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 5: what happens tonight.

564
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree about the goaltending. I think they have

565
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: vanilla goalies. I think we have vanilla goalies. I don't

566
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: like their defense, but I want to get back to

567
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: the Ues family. I think they overestimate both uses Luke

568
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: on defense dramatically.

569
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: They pay him like he's a top pair defenseman and

570
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: he's not.

571
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 4: And Jack Hughes is like.

572
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: Very good. Does that make sense?

573
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: I'd want him on my team. I wouldn't want my

574
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: franchise to relye on him.

575
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 5: I don't know. I think I might have a higher

576
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 5: opinion of him than you do. I think he's a

577
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 5: legit number one center, but I will agree with you

578
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 5: his brother now Quinn, but the kid who plays with

579
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 5: him in Jersey. I don't understand why they pay him

580
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 5: what they do. And I've had a couple of people

581
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 5: in the hockey industry tell me, well, his underlying number

582
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 5: suggests that he'll become a star, Like I don't even

583
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 5: know what that means, but I would like to see

584
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 5: somebody become a star before I pay him what they're

585
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 5: paying him. Yeah, I think that's clearly an issue, and

586
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 5: I don't think they've handled that, you know, the finances

587
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 5: very well when it comes to the Hughes brother said

588
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 5: that it is a very fair point.

589
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: They're going to fire anybody because you certainly hear things.

590
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: We got our guy fits he down there DM and.

591
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 5: I actually think he's a good GM by the way,

592
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 5: I do a lot of good things. I don't know,

593
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 5: I mean, it's hard to say. I think it's conceivable

594
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 5: because expectations were, like they've been kind of a sexy

595
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 5: pick to win the Eastern Conference the last couple of years.

596
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 5: After they beat the Rangers in the playoffs two years ago,

597
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 5: everybody was really on them for good reason, I think,

598
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 5: and they've spent a lot of money and in a

599
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 5: weak Eastern Conference that they've been bad. They've they've been

600
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 5: maybe the biggest disappointment other than Toronto in the East.

601
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 5: So yeah, I I would think it's something to keep

602
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 5: your eye on with them, for sure.

603
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: It is funny, Josh.

604
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: I never saw the Penguins making the playoffs this year,

605
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: and I'm still not sure I do, but I definitely

606
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: think it's possible.

607
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: I think they'll be in the race till the end.

608
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: But one thing I didn't see is the potential there,

609
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: the legit potential there to finish second in the friggin'

610
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: Metro Division.

611
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: And they're not far off that right now.

612
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 5: Oh, there are a couple of points out of that

613
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 5: I didn't either. I thought this had a chance to

614
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 5: be a bottom five team in the league. They have

615
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 5: completely shocked me. Yes, the East is bad and that helps,

616
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 5: but you know what, they've been good and a lot

617
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 5: of things are going to help them here. The schedule

618
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 5: is pretty soft for the next month, and I think

619
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 5: the Olympic break really helps them. They only have a

620
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 5: couple of guys playing in the Olympics, and in the

621
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 5: case of getting malk and the more rest he gets,

622
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 5: the better he's a better player. When he plays sixty

623
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 5: games as opposed to eighty two. He's on pace to

624
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 5: play sixty five now, and he's going to get another

625
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 5: few weeks after in the Olympics. I really think that

626
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 5: will help his legs. Sid's going to play in the Olympics.

627
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 5: As we've learned, the more he plays, the better he plays.

628
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 5: So that's not a problem. Like I said, they just

629
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 5: got through their toughest stretch of schedule, probably of the

630
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 5: season in December. It gets tough again in March, but

631
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 5: they've got a chance to really make some hay here

632
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 5: in the next few weeks.

633
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: Josh, did you hear Eric Carlson the show yesterday?

634
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: No?

635
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 5: I didn't, but I was actually very intrigue, intrigued to

636
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 5: hear about it because I know you've not always been,

637
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 5: you know, his biggest fan on.

638
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: He's been real good this year. Oh yeah, I got

639
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: to tell you.

640
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: I felt like Ed McMahon. I felt like a sidekick.

641
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: I feel like we've run.

642
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 4: Late night TV.

643
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: He just talks and talks and talks, and it's great.

644
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 5: And he uses the English language better than most Americans

645
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 5: I know, in fact, so I I listen. He's one

646
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 5: of the most interesting people I've ever covered. I legitimately

647
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 5: like him. You never know how he's gonna play. That's

648
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 5: part of the fun in many ways, though, Mark, don't

649
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 5: you agree like he was meant to be a Penguin

650
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 5: at some point, just the way he plays the game

651
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 5: and his personality. He really was like, I honestly considered

652
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 5: a privilege to cover the guy. I enjoy it.

653
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's fun to have him on and at

654
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: least he's playing good this year. But it was like,

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00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: and he freely admitted to being insulted by not being

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00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: in Sweden's first six.

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00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: He was he was great. I was gonna go.

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00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: I was gonna go full at McMahon, I just go.

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00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: That's Josh showe eat no Nil at halftime. One oh

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00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: five nine, Every weekday at ten am is Travis starting

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00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: your birthday commercial free on one oh five nine or

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00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: the Mark Mannon Shows