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Speaker 1: It is time for Joe lars Guard, a host of

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Speaker 1: how to Money. He's heard every Sunday twelve to two

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Speaker 1: pm right here on KFI and he is at how

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Speaker 1: to Money Joel. That's a social address and his website

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Speaker 1: is howtomoney dot com. Good morning, Joel, Morning Bill. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we get right to it. Tax refunds are going to

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Speaker 1: be bigger and better for many Americans this year. And

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Speaker 1: I've always thought that big tax refunds make zero sense.

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Speaker 1: But at the some time, at the same time, they

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Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. And I know that's kind

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Speaker 1: of contradict no, and I think you'll agree, right, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's start with.

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Speaker 2: That they're going to be bigger. Why is that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you're you're You're right on both ends

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Speaker 3: that I think it makes sense in some ways because

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Speaker 3: it's a forced method of savings for people and it

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Speaker 3: makes them feel good.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: It feels nice to get like three thousand, four thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars back in April and you're just like, all right,

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Speaker 3: I can do something big now with a giant sum

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Speaker 3: of money. But really that's just money that you overpaid

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Speaker 3: to the government. You're getting refunded to you, and you

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Speaker 3: could have done other things with that money throughout the year.

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Speaker 3: Ride an extra couple hundred bucks in your paycheck, that's

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Speaker 3: nothing to sneeze at. But people have gotten used to

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Speaker 3: these giant tax refunds. And this is even if they

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Speaker 3: realize it's an interest free loan to the government. Most

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Speaker 3: people don't seem to mind.

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Speaker 1: No again, And here's why, because when I used to

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Speaker 1: file taxes this way, the way that didn't make much

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Speaker 1: sense is that you don't put away two hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: a month to pay your taxes.

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Speaker 2: Nobody does.

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Speaker 1: So when you get the big tax refund, it is

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Speaker 1: for savings, and you ignore the fact that it's a tax,

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Speaker 1: that it's an interest free loan to the government, because

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Speaker 1: that overrides oh boy, now I have money for sex,

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Speaker 1: drugs and rock and roll, which you didn't think you had.

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Speaker 3: Right well, And in some ways, like for a lot

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Speaker 3: of the way Americans handle money, having some sort of

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Speaker 3: method of savings, it's almost like sitting on your hands,

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Speaker 3: so you can't do the dumb thing and spend it

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Speaker 3: in the month that you get it. And so from

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Speaker 3: that standpoint, like I'm not one hundred percent against a

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Speaker 3: big tax refund, even though, oh yes, are you missing

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Speaker 3: out on doing smart things with it?

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Speaker 2: For sure?

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Speaker 3: But if you, if you treat money like the average

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Speaker 3: American does, like actually, it might be in your own

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Speaker 3: best interest to have a big tax refund and then

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Speaker 3: do something hopefully smart with what's coming down the pike.

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Speaker 3: And this year we're gonna see people getting bigger tax

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Speaker 3: refunds on average than last year. And that's because of

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Speaker 3: the so called big beautiful Bill. Right, So it's we're

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Speaker 3: talking about no tax on tips, like better overtime tax

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Speaker 3: tax realities. We're talking about if you bought a new

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Speaker 3: card this year, you're getting a tax break for the

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Speaker 3: interest you paid on on that car loan. Uh, the

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Speaker 3: larger standard deduction. There are all these, all these ways,

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Speaker 3: all these like little tax perks that are going to

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Speaker 3: add up in the average person. Instead of seeing a

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Speaker 3: tax refund of like three grand, it might it might

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Speaker 3: be closer to four thousand dollars. And that's just a

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Speaker 3: lot of chunk could change that people need to know

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Speaker 3: what to do with and be smart with.

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Speaker 1: I have a question, and this is a big picture question,

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Speaker 1: and that is obviously, the bigger the tax break the refund,

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Speaker 1: the less money comes into the government and it is well, frankly,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're running more of a deficit. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time you've got these tariffs where money is

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Speaker 1: coming in.

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Speaker 2: Does it even out?

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Speaker 1: Are we getting more money from tariffs than what the

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Speaker 1: tax breaks are or the other way? I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you know, I know that unless you keep up with

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Speaker 1: this and looked at the stats, you wouldn't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd have to look at the statistics. But my

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Speaker 3: assumption is that, well, I think the tariffs are bad

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Speaker 3: on multiple fronts, right, and I think ultimately, like the

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Speaker 3: latest statistics showed that American consumers end up paying essentially

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Speaker 3: ninety six percent of the cost of those tariffs. Maybe

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Speaker 3: some folks in foreign lands who ship their goods here

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Speaker 3: they eat a small small amount of that tariff, but

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Speaker 3: it really gets passed on as a tax to American consumers. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: are the tariffs generating income for the federal government, Yes,

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Speaker 3: but typically it's on the backs of American consumers anyway,

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Speaker 3: in the form of fire prices.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And people don't realize that because what's happening is the

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Speaker 1: President says, you're not paying the tariffs, and it's true,

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Speaker 1: you're not writing the check for the tariffs. It's the importer,

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Speaker 1: it's the manufacturer overseas. And as I've mentioned many times,

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Speaker 1: I have a import business with my friend Savil. We've

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Speaker 1: been partners for twenty years and we import cookwar from

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Speaker 1: China and it's made out of stainless steel and we

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Speaker 1: are paying about one hundred and one hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: percent in duties. So the last container we brought in

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Speaker 1: I think it was, it was small, small container and

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Speaker 1: it was I think seventy five thousand dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: goods and we wrote a check to the government for

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Speaker 1: eighty two thousand dollars on top of paying for the goods.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it's crazy.

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Speaker 1: And the point I'm making it's the manufacturer that's paying

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Speaker 1: it and believing the government. They say you're not paying

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Speaker 1: for it. Believe me, we're all paying for it, although

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Speaker 1: the manufacturers, the importers, suck up a lot of that

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Speaker 1: and profits are way way down. Okay, just that was

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Speaker 1: off topic a little bit. Here's a question and Joel

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Speaker 1: came up with it. Is it possible to have a

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Speaker 1: healthy three dollars dinner without either dumper dice, dumper dumper dusting, diving,

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Speaker 1: or standing on the off ramp of a freeway with

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Speaker 1: a sign will work for food, with no intention of

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Speaker 1: actually working.

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Speaker 2: How do you do this for three bucks?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm I want to throw the question back

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Speaker 3: to you. Do you think it's possible?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, no, I don't unless you unless you get used food. No,

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Speaker 2: I do think it's.

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Speaker 3: Possible, and I do think it's possible to eat reasonably

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Speaker 3: healthy at the on and average three dollars per meal

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Speaker 3: per person per day. So let's say you family of

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Speaker 3: four or five. There are certain things you can make

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Speaker 3: if you're smart and you're cautious about what you're bringing

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Speaker 3: into your house. Where you buy that food. By the way,

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Speaker 3: super duper important because yet not all grocery stores are

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Speaker 3: created equal.

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Speaker 2: I think it's possible.

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Speaker 3: I just think it's really really hard, right, and you

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Speaker 3: are going to have to be incredibly intentional about buying

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Speaker 3: things on sale and buying, for instance, like the cheaper

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Speaker 3: cuts of meat. The Wall Street Journal did an article

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Speaker 3: about this, and they did they kind of went shopping

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Speaker 3: at some stores and one of the things they found

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Speaker 3: was like, oh yeah, you can with like one piece

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Speaker 3: of broccoli and some boneless skinless chicken breast. And here's

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Speaker 3: what I was like, that's ridiculous, Like, no one's gonna

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Speaker 3: eat like one piece of broccoli. Sorry, it's not enough

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Speaker 3: for your dinner plate. But when they said boneless, skinless

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Speaker 3: chicken breast, I was like, that's the most expensive cut

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Speaker 3: you can buy. Like you can buy whole chickens. This

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Speaker 3: is something I've been doing regularly lately. I buy two

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Speaker 3: whole chickens at Costco. They're nine to nine cents a pound,

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Speaker 3: and then you cook both of them on a Saturday

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Speaker 3: or Sunday, and you plan your meals for the week

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Speaker 3: around those chickens. Around ten dollars worth of protein. That's

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Speaker 3: the kind of stuff you have to And I'm not

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Speaker 3: saying I eat for three dollars a meal every single

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Speaker 3: week or every single day. But still I think it's

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Speaker 3: possible if you choose the right foods.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, But you know, based on what you said,

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Speaker 1: lots of pasta obviously, if you're going to get meat,

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Speaker 1: you get lots of body parts of cows and chickens

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Speaker 1: that you would never even talk about. But I guess

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Speaker 1: working is that hard to find. I guess it was

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Speaker 1: a question if your food insecure I mean, clearly you're

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Speaker 1: gonna do that, Neil, jump in, And I was thinking

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Speaker 1: of restaurants, by the.

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Speaker 2: Way, which of course is impossible, Meil, He's.

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Speaker 4: Spot on and many of us. I used to think

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Speaker 4: it was just a Mexican thing, but apparently it's all

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Speaker 4: over the place. My mom would boil a chicken every Sunday,

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Speaker 4: and it wasn't for an intent for us to eat

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Speaker 4: it that Sunday. It was for the rest of the week,

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Speaker 4: and it would go into rice dishes, it would go

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Speaker 4: into pasta dishes, it would go into enchiladas, whatever it was.

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Speaker 4: But I think you're absolutely right. I think the word

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Speaker 4: you use was intentional or something like that, being intentional

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Speaker 4: about what you purchase, looking for what's on sale. Some

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Speaker 4: of the best cuts of meat, even ground beef is

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Speaker 4: more expensive right now. You could probably get flat meat

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Speaker 4: for a better price and learn to cook it properly

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Speaker 4: and cut it properly and get really you know, proteins

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Speaker 4: are going to be one of the most expensive things.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, learning how to do these things, I think

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Speaker 4: you absolutely could do it for three bucks a meal.

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Speaker 2: And I want to point something else, Neil.

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Speaker 1: Clearly, you know how tasty boiled chicken is there is

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Speaker 1: nothing tasting on the planet.

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Speaker 4: Boiled chicken with a little salt on it still one

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Speaker 4: of my favorite things.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it really is.

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Speaker 4: It's a simple, but it brings me back, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I think it's a good way to prep for other

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Speaker 4: meals and for salads and for all kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: All right, fair enough, moving on then the billionaire tax

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Speaker 1: in California having unintended consequences.

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you, I think they knew.

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Speaker 1: Exactly what was going to happen when the billionaire tax

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Speaker 1: was passed.

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Speaker 3: So come in on that if you would. So you

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Speaker 3: think they just wanted all the billionaires to vacate.

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Speaker 1: No, they wanted They knew they were going to or

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Speaker 1: was a chance they were going to vacate. And I

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Speaker 1: think somebody did a formula in government simply weighing the

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Speaker 1: consequences and figure out, okay, we're going to make more

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Speaker 1: money with the tax.

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Speaker 2: It was like the Ford motor case.

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Speaker 1: If you remember the Pinto case where that kid burned

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Speaker 1: to death and the internal MENMO said, oh, we're going

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Speaker 1: to have X number of people die, but it's cheaper

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Speaker 1: than redoing all the cars. And I think that went on.

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Speaker 1: But you buy that you think this was totally unintended.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how unintended You knew that was going to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're right.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there there was at least some assumption that

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Speaker 3: this was going to happen to a certain extent. But

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Speaker 3: I just don't know if the people formulating the law

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Speaker 3: were like, oh, there's going to be a mass exodus

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Speaker 3: of talent and wealth from this state if we implement

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Speaker 3: something like a wealth tax. And I get kind of

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Speaker 3: I get the desire right to to and we already

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Speaker 3: have right the different a graduated tax system to.

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Speaker 2: Where you make more money, you pay more money.

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Speaker 3: And yes, some of the richest among us they pay

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Speaker 3: some of the lowest tax rates because of the way

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Speaker 3: they're income, the way they make their money, and the

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Speaker 3: way it's tax and a lot of what the richest

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Speaker 3: people in the country, it's it's like wealth on paper, right,

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Speaker 3: And so this is an attempt to get some tax

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Speaker 3: revenue from the wealth that exists on paper. And I

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Speaker 3: totally understand why they want to do that, but I

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Speaker 3: just when you look at past example of wealth taxes

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Speaker 3: and what happens, the billionaires tend to flee, and it

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Speaker 3: reduces actually your tax base in the state, and it

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Speaker 3: reduces opportunity and businesses. Businesses tend to move out of

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Speaker 3: a state like this, and so it actually has I

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Speaker 3: think the unintended effect is actually worse than what you

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Speaker 3: were hoping to get from this new legislation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's and billionaires don't spend that much money.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they live large, but when you talk about

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Speaker 1: someone who is worth ten twelve four billion dollars, that

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Speaker 1: net worth is all stocks and it's all annuities and

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Speaker 1: it's not income coming in. The income coming in is

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Speaker 1: relative to the wealth, not that much. But hey, welcome

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Speaker 1: to California.

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Speaker 2: You know that.

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Speaker 1: How about the mansion tax here in Los Angeles and

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Speaker 1: what that did to the sale of Holmes right exactly.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's just another I think it's just another

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Speaker 3: problematic way of trying to drive tax revenue. And the

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Speaker 3: other thing that's going to happen here is if those

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Speaker 3: billionaires leave, if they take their businesses with them because

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Speaker 3: they want to avoid this punitive tax. I think one

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Speaker 3: you might say, oh, well, you have enough money to

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Speaker 3: pay this tax, so just get it over with, Like

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Speaker 3: who cares? And who cares if you have ninety five

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Speaker 3: billion instead of one hundred billion dollars, And there is

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Speaker 3: one case to be made for that, but oftentimes, because

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Speaker 3: these are paper valuations and there's the sale of stock

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Speaker 3: and capital gains tax to go along with it, there

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Speaker 3: are other considerations that need to be made. And it

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Speaker 3: also just feels I think for these billionaires. I mean

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Speaker 3: I'm not shedding a tear for any of them, but

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Speaker 3: that it's like, well, if I'm going to live in

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Speaker 3: a state where there's opportunity, but do I want to

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Speaker 3: live somewhere where they're constantly looking at me as a

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Speaker 3: source of revenue and maybe the money's not being spent

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Speaker 3: in a way that seems appropriate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And the issue is moving the businesses, I think is

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Speaker 1: that is a big hit because those are jobs that

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Speaker 1: are disappearing, and that is I think far more detrimental

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Speaker 1: to certainly our economy. All right, Joel, thank you. We'll

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Speaker 1: catch you this Sunday from twelve to two pm, so good.

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Speaker 2: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: Bill,