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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVZ, Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: Well, in the last couple of days, there have been

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Speaker 2: two huge lawsuits concluded, one today in Los Angeles, one

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Speaker 2: yesterday in New Mexico. The numbers are extraordinary. The lawsuit

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Speaker 2: yesterday in Mexico, Meta, which owns Facebook and Instagram, has

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Speaker 2: been ordered by the state of New Mexico to pay

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Speaker 2: three hundred and seventy five million dollars over child safety violations.

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Speaker 2: They will also be I believe subsequent hearings at this

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Speaker 2: case in which the State of Mexico will ask for

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Speaker 2: more damages. I assume some form of punitive damages. In

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles today, a lawsuit that was brought on behalf

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Speaker 2: of a young child, a girl named Kaylee who's now twenty,

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Speaker 2: claimed that she, at the age of six, basically fell

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Speaker 2: under the spell of Meta and YouTube uh and that

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Speaker 2: they have created products that led to addictive behavior behavior

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Speaker 2: by young users. And it's a landmark decision I'm reading

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Speaker 2: here from a CBS news piece that could set a

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Speaker 2: legal precedent for similar allegations brought against social media companies

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Speaker 2: around the world. For that matter. Then the number of

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Speaker 2: the number of potential legal actions that now that are

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Speaker 2: already underway, but what which, which in addition might be initiated,

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Speaker 2: could be extraordinary. And the person who is best capable,

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Speaker 2: i think, within the sound of voice to explain the

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Speaker 2: complexities of this and too, and to simplify for those

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Speaker 2: of us who are not as as adept as he is,

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Speaker 2: it's my good friend, Hiawatha Bray of the Boston Globe. Hiawatha,

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to night Side.

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Speaker 3: True glad to be here. I think, yeah, well, I

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Speaker 3: guess this is a tough one. I mean, I to

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Speaker 3: just lay my cards on the table, right, I'm not

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Speaker 3: entirely sure what I think about this, because this is

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Speaker 3: actually a very complex issue that I think people are

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Speaker 3: really going to be grappling with for a long time.

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Speaker 3: I was talking actually to one of the organizations that

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Speaker 3: pushed this lawsuit and was celebrating the victory, and even

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Speaker 3: the attorney that I talked to admit it that it's

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Speaker 3: a complex question that isn't susceptible to a very simple answer,

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Speaker 3: because there are so many various levels at which this

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Speaker 3: problem has to be addressed. Now, you've got to keep

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Speaker 3: the two cases sort of separated. The three hundred and

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Speaker 3: seventy five million dollar one. That was one I think

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Speaker 3: is a little easier because what they were basically saying

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Speaker 3: is you had an obligation to protect children from sexually

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Speaker 3: explicit and exploitive material. You claimed to be doing it,

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Speaker 3: and you weren't. Huge amounts of this stuff was still

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Speaker 3: accessible to children, and you should have done something about it.

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Speaker 3: And that is a that's an argument that I think

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Speaker 3: has a considerable weight to it because in American law

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Speaker 3: we have always recognized this idea that there's a vast

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Speaker 3: area of freedom of speech, but we set limits around

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Speaker 3: free speech when it comes to speech aimed at miners.

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Speaker 3: And it is acceptable to place limits on the kind

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Speaker 3: of speech made available to minors when it involves sexually

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Speaker 3: explicit materials. And these companies are supposed to be protecting

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Speaker 3: kids from that kind of stuff, and clearly they have

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Speaker 3: not successfully been doing that. This one, the other hand,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: Let me just I just want to finish up with

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Speaker 2: you a little bit on New Mexico, because you have

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Speaker 2: much better grasp of this than I do. I'm looking

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Speaker 2: at that case and reading it. I haven't read the

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Speaker 2: filings right, but enough of a lawyer to understand that

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Speaker 2: these are cases that that are very significant. Three seventy

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Speaker 2: five that's a lot of money. I wondered if if

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Speaker 2: now this is a civil case, but it involved undercover

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Speaker 2: investigators who basically went on to websites and basically portrayed

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Speaker 2: themselves as young, young kids, right, And that is how

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Speaker 2: in this case they made it. And it seems to me,

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Speaker 2: now again we get into difficult areas here because but

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Speaker 2: it seems to me that this came very close to

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Speaker 2: being potential, potentially a criminal indictment against.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about that, but I get your point,

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Speaker 3: and I think you're making a very good point. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they are supposed to be offering a service which protects

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Speaker 3: minors from that kind of thing. And indeed, they had

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Speaker 3: undercover people going in saying basically, I'm a child, and

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Speaker 3: they were able to access the most shocking and appalling stuff,

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Speaker 3: and that meant that at the very least, they were

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Speaker 3: misrepresenting what they were offering there. And there's a real

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Speaker 3: question there about you know, whether that's fraudulent.

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Speaker 2: Called fraud and the inducement number one number two, it

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Speaker 2: also it's if you know that that you put something

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Speaker 2: out there that kids have access to. And you know,

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Speaker 2: if you know that predators are going to avail themselves

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Speaker 2: of whatever you have have constructed and put out there,

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Speaker 2: you know, you start to get almost to a conspiracy

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Speaker 2: argument potentially. Now, again, they're not working with the predators,

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Speaker 2: but obviously for some reason there must be some financial

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Speaker 2: gain that they are recognizing and reaping from activity, which

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Speaker 2: they should be aware of. It gets into some real

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Speaker 2: murky waters, and it can.

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Speaker 3: It does. Know you're at the point because the question

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Speaker 3: is how much do they do, how much do they

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Speaker 3: spend to try to deal with this, and there is

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Speaker 3: it's an open question as to whether they are anywhere

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Speaker 3: near doing as much as they could to keep this

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Speaker 3: stuff away from kids.

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Speaker 2: But let's get to the other case I talked, I

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Speaker 2: took you down. The Los Angeles case is a single

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Speaker 2: child individuals. You know, originally six year old girl who

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Speaker 2: got hooked on this stuff. And I guess she was

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Speaker 2: represented by well a lawyer who I think his name

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Speaker 2: is Mark Lannier. But there was also this group, maybe

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Speaker 2: it was a group you were talking to, social Media

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Speaker 2: Victims Law Center, Matthew Burd.

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Speaker 3: No different, I was talking to a different group.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, so tell us about that case, because that

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Speaker 2: one potentially is an extraordinary case because if she can

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Speaker 2: be successful, she's not the only child who was who

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Speaker 2: was ensneered in this this addictive behavior, which I guess

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Speaker 2: her lawyers must have argued that Meta did this intentionally

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Speaker 2: and they knew what they were doing.

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Speaker 3: Well, this one, I think the really complicated one, because

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Speaker 3: in effect, you're telling a media organization that you have

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Speaker 3: done something unethical by designing your product to make people really,

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Speaker 3: really really want to use it. And that's what media

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Speaker 3: organizations do, It's what they're supposed to do. Now, the

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Speaker 3: only to me, to the extent that it involves miners,

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Speaker 3: that's the area of maximum danger, and that's where this

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Speaker 3: really becomes problematic. But carried to its logical conclusion, you know, people,

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Speaker 3: for example, people compare this to the whole legal attack

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Speaker 3: on cigarettes, pointing out they're making a product that is

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Speaker 3: the addictive and kills people, and it was not about miners,

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Speaker 3: it was about anybody who used cigarette. Well, as I'm

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Speaker 3: sure we all know, there are plenty of people who

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Speaker 3: are not miners who are addicted to social media. And

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Speaker 3: there's no question, none at all that social media people

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Speaker 3: design their products to be well, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you call it necessarily addictive, but certainly habit for me.

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Speaker 3: They designed to make you want to come back again

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Speaker 3: and again and again every television program ever made, so

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Speaker 3: do Star Wars movies?

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Speaker 2: Is that? Is that the concept of doom scrolling? Hiawauth? I?

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Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, I can't lie. I do it too at

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Speaker 3: times I have to force myself to put down the phone.

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Speaker 3: But are they vile? Are they committing any kind of

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Speaker 3: of illicit or unjust act by designing a product that

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Speaker 3: makes me want to keep using it. That's a pretty

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Speaker 3: risky argument to make, especially when it involves communications and speech.

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Speaker 3: Now it becomes less risky when you aim at it minors.

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Speaker 3: But how do you deal with that problem? How do

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Speaker 3: you make sure because I and principle I would go

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Speaker 3: along with that. I'm sympathetic, you know. Was it Australia

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Speaker 3: that has banned minors from social media?

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Speaker 2: How do they enforce that?

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Speaker 3: I have no idea. I don't even think they can.

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Speaker 3: That's part of the problem. How in the world do

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Speaker 3: you enforce that? It would be extremely difficult to enforce

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Speaker 3: such a law, And that's one of the key problems

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Speaker 3: with this particular case that's really driving me crazy. Are

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Speaker 3: you going to basically somehow make it illegal or subject?

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Speaker 3: You could be sued if you're like of facebookers on

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Speaker 3: that because it is discovered that their technologies such as

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Speaker 3: like you said, infinite scrolling and so on, are automatically addictive.

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Speaker 3: Are you going to make them stop doing everything they

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Speaker 3: do that makes their product so attractive that's going to

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Speaker 3: devastate their business, is going to make people use the

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Speaker 3: product lass And if you're an adult, come on, that's

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Speaker 3: your business. Why in the world should they be able

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Speaker 3: to step in and say, how dare they make a

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Speaker 3: product that you want to keep on using? Okay, so

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Speaker 3: that's kind of a really weird argument.

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Speaker 2: Let me do this. I got to take a break

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Speaker 2: to love your enthusiasm and your knowledge, and I so

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Speaker 2: appreciate you spending some time with us. I'd like to

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Speaker 2: be bold and see if if you take a few

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Speaker 2: phone calls from oh yeah, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: Those are really good subj and especially when it comes

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Speaker 3: to minors, I'm not sure what we're supposed to do

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Speaker 3: about this. Well, and everybody's got a really challenging issue,

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Speaker 3: and people who think this is a simple one side

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Speaker 3: or the other argument. I can't go along with it

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Speaker 3: because I'm really bothered by it.

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Speaker 2: No, I totally get it. I totally get it. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, you know, I've never understood when they had,

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Speaker 2: you know, these chips which the parents could control TV sets.

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Speaker 2: The kids know the TV sets better than the parents,

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Speaker 2: then they know how to get around whenever they want

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Speaker 2: to watch at three o'clock in the afternoon. So my

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Speaker 2: guess is Hiawatha Bray, Boston Globe writer. But I also

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Speaker 2: think he's an extraordinary speaker and explainer, which is why

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Speaker 2: I love to have Hiawatha on, particularly on subjects like this.

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Speaker 2: If you have an opinion, if you have a comment

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Speaker 2: and observation six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty

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Speaker 2: or six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I

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Speaker 2: believe this will alter the landscape of what we're talking

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Speaker 2: about these social media sites because the implications of not

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Speaker 2: only these two cases decided in the last two days,

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Speaker 2: but the hundreds and thousands of other potential cases. They

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Speaker 2: could overwhelm the court system and overwhelm these companies, which

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Speaker 2: so far have been pretty much been able to do

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Speaker 2: whatever they want to do in whatever way they want

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Speaker 2: to do it, which is what freedom and capitalism and

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Speaker 2: all of that is all about. We'll be back on

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Speaker 2: Nightside with Hiawatha Bray. Feel free. I'm sure many of

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Speaker 2: you have more knowledge and can ask better questions than

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Speaker 2: I can. This is not my wheelhouse, but it's certainly interesting,

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Speaker 2: and Hiawatha Bray makes it so even I get it.

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Speaker 2: I understand that back on Nightside after this.

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Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: My guess is Boston Globe columnist, analyst, commentator Hiawatha Bray,

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Speaker 2: highwathor real Quickly, here, I have two quick sound bites

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Speaker 2: from the attorney representing the plaintiff in the Los Angeles case,

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Speaker 2: a woman who now I believe is twenty years old.

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Speaker 2: She goes by the name Kaylee. She did not present

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Speaker 2: herself today. The first one is a linear attorning Mark

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Speaker 2: Lanear reacting to the decision. I want you to comment

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Speaker 2: on this one cut twenty six, Please Rob. There are so.

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Speaker 4: Many families who've been tragically hurt through the addiction of

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Speaker 4: social media, and while we've never been able to talk

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Speaker 4: about the content of what these social media platforms can

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Speaker 4: do that's protected under the judge's rulings.

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Speaker 2: We have been able to talk about the features.

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Speaker 5: I feel like what we're about here is something beyond

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Speaker 5: just trying to make a buck, beyond just trying to

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Speaker 5: help Kayley. I feel like we're about something that is

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Speaker 5: incredibly socially important and responsible.

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Speaker 2: Let's to get your reaction to that. Obviously, a lawyer

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Speaker 2: pretty excited about the verdict. The three million dollars is

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Speaker 2: for compensatory damages. That may be some putative damages which

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Speaker 2: will also be assessed in this case, so it could

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Speaker 2: be a lot more than three million dollars. Your thoughts,

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Speaker 2: I mean that lawyer pretty much, I think framed the

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Speaker 2: case pretty well.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you buy into the idea, and which I

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Speaker 3: guess I do, that the material that these young people

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Speaker 3: are exposed to could indeed be harmful to them. And

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Speaker 3: you're saying that this company has an obligation to somehow

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Speaker 3: prevent these kids from getting access to it, or design

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Speaker 3: their maybe more specifically, design their product so that it's

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Speaker 3: not constantly being reinforced by ever more exposure to it.

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Speaker 3: And you could make that argument that the problem is

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Speaker 3: where do you exactly do draw the line. For example,

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Speaker 3: how would a social media company know the age of

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Speaker 3: the person who's using the account. There are ways of

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Speaker 3: doing it, but they're not perfect, and a minor could

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Speaker 3: get on to say Facebook, and it would be unknown

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Speaker 3: to Facebook that the person is a minor. The only

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Speaker 3: way for them to deal with this in a fully

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Speaker 3: satisfactory way, I guess, would be for them to somehow

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Speaker 3: figure out every feature of Facebook that might have the

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Speaker 3: tendency of causing people to become addicted or finding it

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Speaker 3: very difficult to resist the information that they're getting, and

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Speaker 3: then removing those features so that Facebook would become a

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Speaker 3: lot less attractive, a lot more boring many of us

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Speaker 3: who like to use it. And this is not just Facebook.

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Speaker 3: There's a egoys. I personally deliberately stop using TikTok for

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Speaker 3: that very reason. It is so insanely addictive that I

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Speaker 3: took it off my phone so I know what they're

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Speaker 3: saying is true and I'm an adult. Should they ban

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Speaker 3: the famous TikTok algorithm that is so good at figuring

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Speaker 3: out what people are going to want to see next?

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Speaker 3: That's TikTok's secret sauce. It's the reason why you can say, well,

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Speaker 3: that's just because they want to make a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: That's true, but it's also the reason people like TikTok.

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Speaker 3: You're saying something that millions, in fact, probably billions of

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Speaker 3: people around the world actually enjoy. They like the fact

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Speaker 3: that when you go to TikTok, it's going to show

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Speaker 3: you that next video and that next video. That's why

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Speaker 3: they go. Is that something unjust? Something they should not

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Speaker 3: be allowed.

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Speaker 2: I want to I don't want to sound like a

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Speaker 2: like a knucklehead, but I love on when when I

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Speaker 2: have a few minutes and I catch a really messed

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Speaker 2: up baseball play, you know, some guy running to the

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Speaker 2: other guy in the outfield, they both end up ball

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Speaker 2: falls between them. Or some guy who tries to catch

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Speaker 2: a ball he ends up going over the fence. You

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Speaker 2: can't stop. But the ad the pringles you can't stop

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Speaker 2: at one.

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Speaker 3: That's right. That's right.

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Speaker 2: Also, I have linear here. He's reading the response, this

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Speaker 2: is quick. I'd like you to respond to this one.

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Speaker 2: The attorney Mark Lannier reading Kayley's response, this is the planet.

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Speaker 2: In the case, the twenty year old plaintiff, she apparently

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Speaker 2: did not choose to go in front of cameras because

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Speaker 2: her the damage was done to her when she was

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Speaker 2: a minor, even though she's now twenty she I think

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Speaker 2: as a plaintive is identified only as three initials KMG

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Speaker 2: or something, but this is him cut twenty nine, please Rob.

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Speaker 4: Kayley has asked me that she does not want to

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Speaker 4: get in front of the cameras, she.

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Speaker 2: Is averse to that, but she did.

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Speaker 7: Want me to express her appreciation publicly for the work

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Speaker 7: of the court, for the work of the jury, and

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Speaker 7: for the work of the media in helping to recognize

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Speaker 7: what the first social media addiction trial is all about.

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Speaker 2: That kind of says that the first social media addiction trial, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: as a little different from yesterday in New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that is That's exactly right. The New Mexico thing

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Speaker 3: is a very different situation where they're saying, you guys

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Speaker 3: had an obligation to keep kids from seeing this stuff

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Speaker 3: and you did not live up to that obligation. That

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Speaker 3: is a very different case because, after all, they are

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Speaker 3: indeed promising to protect kids. See that's why I think

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Speaker 3: that's on much firmer ground, cause these guys are saying,

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Speaker 3: we're going to protect your kids from this stuff, and

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Speaker 3: they weren't.

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Speaker 2: So let let me, let me, let me throw one another.

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Speaker 3: This is a very different kettle of fish.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let me throw one hypothetical, hypothetical at you. Let's

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Speaker 2: go back fifty years when Hugh Hefton was publishing Playboy magazine,

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Speaker 2: and it was a magazine, a gentleman's magazine, so called. Right,

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Speaker 2: it was topless, topst women, right, okay, and every kid

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Speaker 2: who was you know, ten, twelve, fourteen, fifteen was dying

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Speaker 2: to see the pictures. It was a it was a

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Speaker 2: it's a simpler time if you take that model, meaning

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Speaker 2: the business model, and compare it to what's going on today.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the social media stuff is everywhere. It's literally

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Speaker 2: in the air. It's in the air now. They never

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Speaker 2: would have said to Hefner, you can't publish a magazine

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Speaker 2: that has, you know, these topless pictures because it might

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Speaker 2: fall into the hands of a child, even though I'm

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Speaker 2: sure knew that his magazine would occasionally fall into the

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Speaker 2: hands of young young boys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, actually always, actually right, We're living in a different

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Speaker 3: world in which the stuff is all pervasive.

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Speaker 2: Though is was this never raised with Hefner or with

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Speaker 2: Playboy because it was more traditional print, you know, ink

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Speaker 2: and paper as opposed to what we're dealing with.

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Speaker 6: They want.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember, was Playboy. I mean, lots of

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Speaker 3: publications were prosecuted for obscenity.

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Speaker 2: Well, Hustle, Larry Flint and Hustler magazine. They made a

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Speaker 2: movie about that, but I don't know that that. You know,

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Speaker 2: Playboy never got below the belt, if you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying. It was like copless stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was, by today's standards, incredibly tame.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right women, Yeah, or back in the day when

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Speaker 2: people were when when young kids would get a national

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Speaker 2: geographic because we'd have pictures of naked women from some

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Speaker 2: other part of the world where we're being naked, you know,

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Speaker 2: topless was just part of the culture. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if that was because that was print and that the

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Speaker 2: First Amendment protection was more effective for print journals as opposed.

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Speaker 3: To very nature. Those kinds of publications were harder to

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Speaker 3: get at. You had to go to a store and

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Speaker 3: buy them. They were printed on paper. You did not

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Speaker 3: interact with them the way you interact with the stuff

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Speaker 3: like I mean, the very fact that you can go

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Speaker 3: to a site like well, we're not even talking about

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Speaker 3: porn here. That's a whole separate argument, a really fascinating one.

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Speaker 3: We're just talking about Facebook where or Facebook or TikTok

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Speaker 3: or x or any number of these things. Wait minute,

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Speaker 3: which ones were in the California case. The California case

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Speaker 3: was TikTok and meta? Right, yeah, yeah, right, that was

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Speaker 3: TikTok and Meta and those have features where all what

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Speaker 3: they're really doing is not obscene, but what they are

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Speaker 3: doing is constantly giving you the next thing and the

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Speaker 3: next thing and.

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Speaker 2: The next Let me strike that, let me strike that.

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Speaker 2: A Wednesday, it was meta.

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Speaker 3: Uh in YouTube, I'm sorry, it's meta and YouTube? Right,

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Speaker 3: I got it backwards?

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Speaker 6: Meda and YouTube?

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Speaker 2: YouTube?

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Speaker 3: YouTube does that too? YouTube? If you go YouTube, what

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Speaker 3: are the short ones called the short video?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Now do they call there's reels? I thought it was

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Speaker 3: Instagram and Facebook they called there's reels. I know, there

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Speaker 3: are so many of them. I get confused myself. Both

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Speaker 3: of them have a feature where you go in and

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Speaker 3: the videos. It's not like where you look for a

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Speaker 3: specific video on YouTube. You can still do that, but

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Speaker 3: when you launch YouTube on your phone, it automatically takes

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Speaker 3: you to a section where it just starts playing videos,

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Speaker 3: and it knows what kind of videos you like, and

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Speaker 3: it just started and the next one and the next,

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Speaker 3: just like it's obviously copying TikTok, and it just keeps

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Speaker 3: going the next one and the next one, and the

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Speaker 3: next one and the next one. And yes, they do that,

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Speaker 3: And that's something we've never really had to deal with before.

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Speaker 3: A computer out there is sitting there. It knows what

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Speaker 3: you like because you've used it for months or years,

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Speaker 3: and knows very right. It knows. For example, I love

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Speaker 3: cooking videos. Sure I will. They will start showing me

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Speaker 3: cooking videos and I will get them over and over again.

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Speaker 3: But then I'll get videos about World War two tanks.

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Speaker 3: I love tanks. I'll get a bunch of videos about tanks.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's it's funny. I have a three

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Speaker 2: and a half We have a three and a half

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Speaker 2: year old grandson who he loves to watch train videos.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I get those two. I love them.

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Speaker 2: Well, then come on over sometime and you get sitting

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Speaker 2: with Benjamin and you guys can watch trade videos together.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, I want to watch the Brewers game. No trains, trains, trains,

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Speaker 2: let's take it.

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Speaker 3: Ill watch railroad videos. That's right, that's it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, trains is different. Look, let's let's hang here for

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Speaker 2: a second. We got to do a newscast at bottom.

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Speaker 2: They are a little late. We'll take some phone calls

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Speaker 2: on the other side. My guest, Hiawatha Bray, Boston Globe

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Speaker 2: knows more about this stuff than anybody I know, and

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Speaker 2: he understands it. He speaks about it in ways in

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Speaker 2: which even I understand six one, seven, two, five, four

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Speaker 2: ten thirty, six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: If you'd like to join the conversation, are I going

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Speaker 2: to do is dial in? If you think that this

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Speaker 2: is a horrific limitation potential limitation on the First Amendment

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Speaker 2: rights of people. I think it's important to break it

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Speaker 2: down between minors. However you want to describe minors sixteen

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Speaker 2: and under. Australia has just said that kids sixteen and

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Speaker 2: under can't beyond certain social media sites in Australia. How

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Speaker 2: that is enforceable. We'll try to get to all of

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Speaker 2: that in your questions. Six one, seven, two, five, four

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Speaker 2: ten thirty, six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: Come on right back on Night Side with Boston globes.

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Speaker 2: Hiawatha Bray, You're on the Night Side with Dan Ray

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Speaker 2: on w b Z Boston's news radio. My guest, Hiawatha Bray,

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Speaker 2: We're talking about these two lawsuits. The one in Mexico,

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Speaker 2: Dell Rather in New Mexico excuse me, dealt with children

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Speaker 2: and children basically who were sexually exploited. Potentially Meta misled

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Speaker 2: users about the safety of its platforms and enabled the

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Speaker 2: sexual exploitation of young users. The case in California today

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Speaker 2: seems like a less important case, but it actually probably

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Speaker 2: is more important because it's talking about an action by

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Speaker 2: a young woman who goes by the initials KGM. She

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Speaker 2: alleged that using YouTube and Instagram from a young age

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Speaker 2: six led to addictive use of the platforms that's where

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Speaker 2: the algorithms come in, and contributed to her mental health

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Speaker 2: problems including depression, body dysmorphia, and suicidal thoughts, and a

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Speaker 2: jury bought that. Now, the argument that I think the

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Speaker 2: the the defendants we're making was where is the parental

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Speaker 2: control to make sure that their child is not hold

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Speaker 2: up in their room looking at videos?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, it sounds to me like I would have been, well, hello,

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Speaker 3: can you hear me said, Ken, Yeah, you were breaking

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Speaker 3: up on my end. But if you didn't hear me,

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Speaker 3: I'll just keep it.

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Speaker 2: I can hear you. No, I can hear you find it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm breaking.

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Speaker 3: Up on your own, but it was coming through clear.

435
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 2: Now, Okay, it sounds to me. It sounds to me

436
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: I was it that you might have been willing to

437
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: consider that argument if you had been on that jury.

438
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 3: Oh, I consider the heck out of it. Because I

439
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: have a fourteen year old kid. He's been on these

440
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 3: things for a while, and in our house, I don't

441
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 3: think it became an issue, partly because we had we

442
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 3: had rules. You did not take that phone in your bedroom.

443
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 3: You had the phone in the living room, and we

444
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 3: knew what you were looking at. Yeah, simple as that.

445
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 3: And he didn't get And don't get me wrong, he

446
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: was going to places like, for example, roadblocks, and we

447
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 3: know that a lot of bad things have happened on roadblocks.

448
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 3: But I also know I was watching him when he

449
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 3: was going wrong.

450
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: Us, for those of us whose children are not fourteen,

451
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: wrote is roadbl Yeah.

452
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 3: He outgrew roadblocks years ago. It's more for kids who

453
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 3: are like ten eleven, and so on. It's this. It's

454
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: basically a social media for kids website, which are literally

455
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: thousands of very simple games that kids can go there

456
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 3: and play and talk to each other about. And one

457
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: reason I allowed him to use that is and also

458
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: he would also play the game Fortnite, is because he

459
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: didn't just play the game. He was socializing. He didn't

460
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 3: just go there and play by himself. He was always

461
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 3: playing with friends, and I was always there to see

462
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 3: what he was doing. And I thought, I don't want

463
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: to completely stop him doing this, because this is not

464
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 3: just him staring at a screen. This is him hanging

465
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: out with his buddies.

466
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: What is the danger? Seriously, in as a parent, if

467
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: the kid goes to the mall and hangs out with

468
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: his buddies, they get it a lot of trouble with

469
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 2: the mall. But what is the trouble?

470
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 3: What is this mall of which you speak?

471
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: My kids were younger. You're quick, man. You The tough

472
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: thing about dealing with you is you're quicker than I. What? What?

473
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 6: What is?

474
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: What? What was? Because I never experienced this? Okay, I

475
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 2: do remember Fortnite a lot of a lot of blood

476
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: and guts and not really.

477
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: No there's a lot of blood and there's a lot

478
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 3: of shooting, but it is very cartoonage. There is no

479
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: blood in for Oka. You get shot and you just

480
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: stagger around, you fall, and you disappear. Okay, I would

481
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: never allow him to play call of duty. I told

482
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 3: him I'm bringing call of duty in this house.

483
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: And call of duty was bloody. Is that the deal?

484
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah?

485
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: Okay, Again, we're not knowing the difference. Okay. I you know,

486
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 2: I I know the difference between.

487
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: Fortnite is very cartoon like. It's very fantasy. It's full

488
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 3: of cartoon characters. It's full of fantasy. Darth Vader is

489
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 3: in it, Iron Man is in it, all these characters,

490
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 3: and it's not very real.

491
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: Let's grab We're gonna grab a couple of phone calls here,

492
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: and I could talk to you all day long.

493
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 3: Man.

494
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: You you are a compendium of valuable information. I'm a

495
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: compendium of useless information.

496
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go.

497
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: First to Rachel in Quinsy. Rachel, you were on Night

498
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: Side with my guest Hiawatha Brave the Boston Globe.

499
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 8: Go right ahead, Rachel, Hi, Dan, nice chat with you here.

500
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 6: You made.

501
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 8: The same comment that I was actually gonna make is like,

502
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 8: where is parential guardianship over what these children going onto?

503
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 8: You have, you know, to watch them. And I'm sorry, sir,

504
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 8: but you have your kids fourteen year old doing something

505
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 8: because it's cartoon doesn't matter, it's violence.

506
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 3: There are people who feel that way, that's fair enough.

507
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 3: There are people who know any depiction. Well, let me

508
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 3: give you an example. I grew up watching Bugs Bunny

509
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: cartoons for the Road running are being blown up, shot burned.

510
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 3: I love them and I still do, and I think

511
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: that that's very different front. Like I told you, I

512
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 3: drew the line at Call of Duty. Call of Duty

513
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: is designed to be very realistic looking military combat with

514
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: people getting you know, blown apart by various weapons. And

515
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: I don't want my kids playing that. And it's set

516
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: in ways in like for example, there's one game Call

517
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: of Duty Black Ops, which is set like in Vietnam.

518
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 3: I don't want my child playing that. But these cartoonish

519
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: games like Fortnite I didn't have a problem with. And

520
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: by the way, or even stricter spirit Job.

521
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: In the spirit of full disclosure, I used to watch

522
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: and my brother still watches Three Stooges movies.

523
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: Just don't get me started every Saturday night on Me TV.

524
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 6: I love the three.

525
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, some people, a lot of women. I'm Hiawath. I'm

526
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: not into three stooges.

527
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 6: I can remember no me either.

528
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 8: May I just say something? Please?

529
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: Well, go ahead, Rachel, that's why you called go ahead?

530
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 8: All right, thank you. But there was no obsession. There

531
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 8: was no sitting instead of these kids getting out, exercising, walking,

532
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 8: and the parental guardianship of like you know what and

533
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 8: and I'm sorry, doesn't matter if it's cartoony shit doesn't matter, okay, Rachel.

534
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 3: Rachel, I am not fighting with you at all. Every parent,

535
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: every household o my own dividing line. And this is

536
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: where I was because, like I said, I grew up

537
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: looking at violent cartoons. I didn't disfigure their cartoons. Who care?

538
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: There are parents who are even stricter than me, and

539
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: that's fine.

540
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: And Rachel, I understand that the broad point, the broader

541
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: point that you're making. I get it. I took you

542
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: because I wanted to get you on before the break,

543
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: but I got to let you go. Thank you for

544
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: raising that issue and reinforcing what I think both Hiawatha

545
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: and I and you would agree upon. I appreciate your call.

546
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: Thank you.

547
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think her basic point is correct. I'm looking

548
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: at this and I'm going, why aren't you watching what

549
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: your kids are looking at?

550
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll take care.

551
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: But you know, when you say that, it sounds like

552
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: you're trying to let these giant companies off the hook.

553
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 3: And I'm not exact no, because I don't. They think

554
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: they should exercise greater care in what they're doing. But

555
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: it's hard to know where to draw a line. And

556
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 3: if you have a system in which it becomes somehow

557
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: a crime or at least you know something that is

558
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 3: worthy a civil lawsuit because somebody can't resist looking at

559
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: the next video, I just don't get it. I mean,

560
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: where does that stop? Do you have to design? I

561
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: am a writer by definition. I want people to read

562
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 3: the next sentence and the next sentence and the next

563
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: sentence that I try to write that way. Is that

564
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: unethical because I'm trying to make them keep reading.

565
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 6: I don't know. I just it's that people are reading.

566
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: Let's let's take quick break. I gotta take quick break,

567
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: and we have a great caller coming up, my great friend.

568
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: You probably certainly know him, maybe personally. Harvey Silverglade, who

569
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: joined us.

570
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: On the Harvey.

571
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: Whenever we talk. First of men, we're gonna get Harvey.

572
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: You know that we got a quick break. We'll be

573
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: right back with Hiawatha Bray and Harvey Silver silver Glade.

574
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 2: H's will be wild Hiawatha and Harvey back on Nightside.

575
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: It's night Side with Boston's News Radio.

576
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: I want to welcome now joining Hiawatha Bray, our guess

577
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: from the Boston Globe. I think the free minute to

578
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: authority in the First Amendment and maybe in the United States.

579
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: My friend Harvey Silverglate and behind Harvey saying that I

580
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: want you guys take over. I'm gonna just listen.

581
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: Go ahead, No, let's just let him talk. Go ahead.

582
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: Either way.

583
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 6: I predict that this verdict is going to be reversed.

584
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 6: It's it's no other court will do it. That the

585
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 6: Supreme Court will do it. This is a free speech case.

586
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 6: It's up to the parents to control what their kids

587
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 6: listen to. And if the parents can't do it, then

588
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 6: the state cannot jump in and be substitute parents.

589
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: What about it.

590
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: There's some responsibility. I mean, I don't know that even

591
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 3: I want to let them completely off the hook, because

592
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: I feel sometimes that they're they do behave in an

593
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: almost like a careless fashion where they basically openly say, yeah,

594
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 3: we're going to get these kids hooked on stuff. Don't

595
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: they have some responsibility to just to at least reign

596
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 3: in their own policies.

597
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 6: They have a moral responsibility, but not a legal responsibility.

598
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: What do you do hobby? What do you do hobby

599
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: with the kids who don't have parents at home? They

600
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: have single parents, moms out work or whatever, And there's

601
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: no there's no in locales.

602
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 6: Want you want to know something, I've never heard any

603
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 6: speech that harmed the child.

604
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: You've never heard of a speech that harms the child? Really, well,

605
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: that's true. So you don't think that exposing children to

606
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, Well, just take the extreme example, hardcore

607
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 3: violent pornography would be harmful to the child.

608
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 6: There are laws against pornography. Yeah, pornography reaches the level

609
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 6: of obscenity. It's illegal, right, right, But you would.

610
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: Agree that would harm a child. I yeah, I think

611
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 3: we would agree with that.

612
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 6: But you're comparing Facebook prob to obscenity.

613
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm simply taking up your arm. You made

614
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 3: the extreme cases, you've never heard of anything. I don't

615
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: think Facebook comes close to that. That's exactly I'm taking

616
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 3: that point. I'm looking at it and I'm saying, what

617
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: happens on Facebook, however annoying, however repetitive it is, that

618
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 3: sinks to such a level that you want the government

619
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 3: stepping in and saying Facebook has to change the way

620
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 3: it runs its algorithms. And I don't see it. Yeah,

621
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 3: I think that's I think that's your opinion too.

622
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: I ran the question by Harvey, and maybe it was

623
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: an unfair question. What do you do with the seven

624
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: year old who comes home from school and mom is

625
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: in because she's working, you know, a double shift or

626
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, right, And you know, you know

627
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: Harvey said to the parents, but there are kids who

628
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: don't have parents who are either attentive or who were

629
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: just overwhelmed. Australia just passed this law Hobby which said

630
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 2: that I guess kids under the age and Hiawatha mention

631
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: and someone mentioned it to me today in January or

632
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: late December, kids under sixteen con goo on Facebook, conco

633
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: on Instagram, conco on Meta, any of these, you know,

634
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 2: these social platforms. As a civil libertarian. I assume that

635
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: troubles you greatly.

636
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 6: Yes it does.

637
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: Is there anything you could do about it? If that

638
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 2: were to be suggested here?

639
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: I don't think here would survive here. I mean I

640
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: wrote about it. There's actually a lot. There was actually

641
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 3: a Supreme Court ruling that basically said kids have First

642
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 3: Amendment rights too, and they have a right to access information,

643
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: and the fact that an adult doesn't want them to

644
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 3: see it too bad. There's exceptions, of course for obscenity,

645
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 3: but short of obscenity, kids have First Amendment rights in

646
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 3: this country.

647
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 6: Okay, but yes, it's good point.

648
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: No, Harvey, I understand that, and that's why I asked

649
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 2: the question. But my further question is if this company

650
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: is basically using whatever interest the kids have to essentially

651
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 2: the case of Kayley in Los Angeles. You think that

652
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: particular case is going to be overturned as well as

653
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 2: the New Mexico case.

654
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 6: Charlie Harvey, yep.

655
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 3: Oh wait a minute, talk to me about the New

656
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 3: Mexico case. You think that one's going to be overturned

657
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: as well? That's interesting. I think that's a stronger case.

658
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 3: What do you think?

659
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: Go ahead?

660
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 6: I repeat, I'm a free speech absolutist, and if the

661
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 6: parents don't worry about what the kids watch, the state

662
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 6: cannot jump in and substitute parents.

663
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 3: But if a company says we're protecting your kids from

664
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 3: this stuff and you find out no, they're not, isn't

665
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 3: that some kind of a torque. Can't you assume them

666
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 3: for like false advertising or something.

667
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 6: Well, I suppose that's fraud, but that's not what this

668
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 6: case is about.

669
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: All right, Look, we've had a great conversation. We're flat

670
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: up against it in time. Two of my favorite guests,

671
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: and Harvey is always appreciate you you being such a

672
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: loyal listener and also participating not only many times as

673
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: a guest, but as a caller in Hiawath. I thank

674
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: you guys as well. I'm going to open this up

675
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: to a conversation with my callers next hour and I'll

676
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: try to frame it. But I'll let you guys. You

677
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 2: probably have to get up in the morning and go

678
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: to work.

679
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, yeah. I haven't even washed the dishes yet.

680
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: It's terrible.

681
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, my great friend. I wish I could

682
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: do something to say thank you other than to say

683
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 2: thank you, and Harvey the same way with you Thank

684
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: you guys.

685
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 3: So much work for me. Okay, you're welcome, all right.

686
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: Very much, Harvey, talk to you soon, Okay, when we

687
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: come back after the eleven You've heard kind of the

688
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: argument here. I'd love to hear from some of you.

689
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: What have you done with your kids? How have you

690
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: controlled your kids or have you not controlled your kids

691
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: in terms of Facebook, Meta, Instagram, TikTok, whatever they're on

692
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: at whatever age. We'll be back on Night Side right

693
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: after the eleven o'clock news