1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Good night. Michael Brown joins me here, the former FEMA

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:03,640
Speaker 1: director of talk.

3
00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:04,520
Speaker 2: Show host Michael Brown.

4
00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: Brownie, no, Brownie, You're doing a heck of a job

5
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,400
Speaker 1: the Weekend with Michael Brown broadcasting Life from Denver, Colorado.

6
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: You've joined The Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to have

7
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,640
Speaker 1: you with joining the program today. If you want to

8
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,280
Speaker 1: send me a message, tell me anything, ask me anything

9
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,960
Speaker 1: at TMA or AMA, the text line is always open

10
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,760
Speaker 1: three three one zero three three three one zero three.

11
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,160
Speaker 1: Keyword Micha or Michael. Didn't do me a favor.

12
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 3: Uh.

13
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,320
Speaker 1: Engage with me on social media, whether it's at Facebook

14
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,800
Speaker 1: or Instagram. They're all at Michael D. Brown, at Michael D. Brown.

15
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,479
Speaker 1: Let's get the elephant in the room out of the way.

16
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 1: To begin with, the Supreme Court yesterday handed down a

17
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 1: decision and the President of the United States decided to

18
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,640
Speaker 1: have well, let's just put it this way, he had

19
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 1: a hissy fit.

20
00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 2: I have very effectively utilized tariffs over the past year

21
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 2: to make America great again. Our stock market has just

22
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 2: recently broken fifty thousand on the Dow and simultaneously and

23
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:13,360
Speaker 2: even more amazingly broken seventy broken seven thousand on the

24
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 2: S and P two numbers that everybody thought upon our

25
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 2: landslide election victory could not be attained.

26
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:21,959
Speaker 1: Think of that.

27
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 2: Nobody thought it was possible to do it within four years,

28
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 2: and we did it in one year. They said you'll

29
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 2: never be able.

30
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:30,679
Speaker 1: You go back and you.

31
00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 2: Read the geniuses, read their statements, all of the Nobel

32
00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 2: Prize winners in economics. They said, no, you couldn't do

33
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 2: it in four years. Well, we didn't do it in

34
00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,679
Speaker 2: four years. We did it in one year. We broke

35
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 2: every record in the book, and we're continuing to do so.

36
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,960
Speaker 2: Tariffs have likewise been used to end five of the

37
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,760
Speaker 2: eight wars that I settle. I settled eight wars, whether

38
00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,200
Speaker 2: you like it or looting India Pakistan, big Ones.

39
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: Nuclear could have been nuclear.

40
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Pakistan said ye, and he goes, I'm.

41
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 1: Talking about how you said. You know, he's resolved eight wars.

42
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,079
Speaker 1: All right? Then he gets mad, I can do anything

43
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,480
Speaker 1: I want with Apah anything. I just can't judge anybody

44
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 1: for it.

45
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 2: I can license, I just can't judge him.

46
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:23,359
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous.

47
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,519
Speaker 2: But it's okay because we have other ways, numerous other ways.

48
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 1: And right there, that's all he should have done was

49
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,040
Speaker 1: just come out and said, you know, I don't like

50
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 1: what the Supreme Court said yesterday, and there are other

51
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 1: things that I can do, and I'm going to do those.

52
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 1: But he had to get personal, and I know he

53
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 1: can't help himself. This is just what his personality is.

54
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 1: But it bothers me that he's doing it in terms

55
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 1: of the United States Supreme Court, which whether you agree

56
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 1: with I don't always agree with them as a whole,

57
00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 1: and there are certain times when I when I will

58
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 1: sipiously disagree with them individually. But I recognize that they're

59
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 1: doing their job.

60
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,799
Speaker 2: Being fools and lapdogs for the rhinos and the radical

61
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:11,680
Speaker 2: left Democrats.

62
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not really sure they are. They're making decisions

63
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:22,040
Speaker 1: based upon what the law says. So yesterday the Supreme

64
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 1: Court handed down what it truly is one of the

65
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 1: most consequential trade law decisions in a generation. And the media,

66
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,639
Speaker 1: bless their little hearts, have done what they always do.

67
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,440
Speaker 1: They melted down. They declare that the Trump presidency is over.

68
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,360
Speaker 1: They proclaim that free trade has been restored to the

69
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 1: right to its you know, right, rightful glory. Democrats are

70
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 1: dancing in the aisles the new York Times is treating

71
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 1: this like I don't know, victory in Europe day v.

72
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,600
Speaker 1: E Day. There's just one problem with that narrative. It's wrong,

73
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,960
Speaker 1: and I want to explain why I and I promise

74
00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 1: you that by the end of this segment you're going

75
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 1: to have a better grasp of what actually happened yesterday

76
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 1: and probably ninety percent of the people out there breathlessly

77
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 1: reporting about it, because the bottom line is this, The

78
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: Supreme Court did not say the President can't impose tariffs.

79
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: It said he used the wrong statute. Now that's a

80
00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,680
Speaker 1: legal distinction that matters enormously, and the administration knew that

81
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,839
Speaker 1: this was coming. So let's start with the basics, because

82
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 1: the headlines are doing their usual bang up job of

83
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 1: just bearing the lead. The case is called Learning Resources Inc.

84
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 1: Versus Trump. Chief Justice Roberts wrote the opinion, the six

85
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 1: to three majority opinion, and the question presented, and I'm

86
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 1: quoting directly from the opinion's first sentence, was simply this,

87
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 1: we decide whether the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, that's

88
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,800
Speaker 1: what you here refer to as i EPA. We decide

89
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 1: whether the Internationally Emergency Economic Powers Act authorizes the President

90
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,880
Speaker 1: to impose tariffs period. That's it. The court said, that's

91
00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 1: it all, And the answer to that question was, no,

92
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,600
Speaker 1: is not. That's it. That's really the entire holding. I IPA,

93
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 1: which is a nineteen seventy seven emergency statute, doesn't authorize

94
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,480
Speaker 1: tariffs full stop. Now here's what the ruling did not say.

95
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 1: It did not say that tariffs are unconstitutional. It did

96
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 1: not say the president has no authority to impose tariffs.

97
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 1: It did not say Congress can't delegate tariff authority to

98
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 1: the president. It did not say the trade deficit is

99
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 1: not a legitimate concern for all of us. It said

100
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:37,039
Speaker 1: narrowly and very very specifically, that this particular statute i

101
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 1: IPA wasn't the right car to be driving. It wasn't

102
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 1: the right vehicle to do what he did. He got

103
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,039
Speaker 1: in the wrong car. The car rid a lot. He

104
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,600
Speaker 1: just got into the wrong car. Now, Chief Justice Roberts

105
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 1: noted that IEPA's list of authorized presidential powers, and it

106
00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 1: is a long list, includes the ability to invent, to

107
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:05,120
Speaker 1: gate block, regulate, direct, compel, nullify, void, prevent, or prohibit

108
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,919
Speaker 1: transactions involving imports and exports. You notice what's conspicuously absent

109
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: from that list the words tariff or duty. And so

110
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,320
Speaker 1: the Court, applying what it called the Major Questions doctrine,

111
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 1: says that if Congress wanted to hand the president the

112
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,480
Speaker 1: extraordinary power to unilattery imposed tariffs of unlimited scope or

113
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 1: unlimited duration, it had to say so explicitly. It didn't

114
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: case closed on this statute, not in all the other statutes,

115
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: but on this. Now, Remember the Court said that if

116
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,479
Speaker 1: Congress wanted to hand the president the extraordinary power to

117
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:53,280
Speaker 1: unilattery imposed tariffs of unlimited scope and duration, it had

118
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,640
Speaker 1: to say so explicitly, and that in this statute it

119
00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,560
Speaker 1: didn't say that. So here's something you may not have

120
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: noticed in the coverage. This was not a left right

121
00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,359
Speaker 1: split among the court. It was even close. The majority

122
00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 1: was Robert Sulta, Mayor, Kagan, Gore, Sutch, Barrett, and Jackson,

123
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:18,960
Speaker 1: six justice justices that spanned the ideological spectrum. The dissenters,

124
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 1: the three that said Trump could use IPA for tariffs

125
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 1: were Thomas, Alito and Kavanaugh. So let that sink in

126
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 1: for a moment. Three of the most conservative justices on

127
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: the court dissented and would have upheld the tariffs. Meanwhile,

128
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 1: the three liberal justices joined the majority not because they

129
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: loved tariffs, because they reached the same statutory conclusion, but

130
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,840
Speaker 1: through different reasoning. Justice Kagan, writing for herself and the

131
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 1: other two liberals, was almost blunt about it. She said,

132
00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 1: you don't even need the major Questions doctrine to get here.

133
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 1: Ordinary statutory interpretation gets you to the same place. AIPA

134
00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:01,240
Speaker 1: just does not mention tariffs in the story. But Kevanaugh's

135
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 1: descent is probably the most important part of the ruling

136
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: that nobody's talking about. So I want to spend some

137
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 1: serious time on Justice Kavanaugh's descent because it might be

138
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,200
Speaker 1: the single most important thing that was written yesterday. And

139
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,200
Speaker 1: I bet money that ninety five percent of the people

140
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,560
Speaker 1: covering the story han't even bothered to read it. Kavanav

141
00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 1: disagreed with the majority, but then he did something really fascinating.

142
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 1: He said, and again I'm paraphrasing closely, that even though

143
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 1: he firmly disagrees with the courts holding writing quote, the

144
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:41,440
Speaker 1: decision might not substantially constrain a president's ability to order

145
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: tariffs going forward. Why because, in Kevanaugh's words, numerous other

146
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,160
Speaker 1: federal statutes authorized the president to impose tariffs and might

147
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,079
Speaker 1: justify most, if not all, of the tariffs at issue

148
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,760
Speaker 1: in this case, albeit perhaps with a few addition procedural

149
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 1: steps that i IPA as an emergency statute, does not require.

150
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 1: And then you know what he did next, Just as

151
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,120
Speaker 1: Kavanaugh went on to list them, he literally handed the

152
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:17,679
Speaker 1: Trump administration a roadmap. So let's go through what that

153
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,680
Speaker 1: roadmap is. You're gonna learn more about this case today

154
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,400
Speaker 1: and why again the cabal is trying to drive you

155
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,200
Speaker 1: a different direction than what I think you should. Hang tight,

156
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 1: We'll go to Kavanaugh's roadmap next. I'll be right back. Hey,

157
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,679
Speaker 1: welcome back to the Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to

158
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,120
Speaker 1: have you with me. I appreciate you tuning in. We're

159
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,640
Speaker 1: going through the Supreme Court decision yesterday that caused Trump

160
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 1: to go out and hold a press conference and basically

161
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 1: just bate the Supreme Court. Whereas if he he I

162
00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,840
Speaker 1: don't know that Trump's ever gonna I mean, I know

163
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 1: Trump's ever gonna change his wa of talking. But had

164
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,599
Speaker 1: the staff just sat down, had the Treasury Secretary, the

165
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: Chief of Staff, and the others sat down. Anytime a

166
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,439
Speaker 1: decision like this comes down, including the Solicitor General, the

167
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,840
Speaker 1: individual who argues the case before the Supreme Court on

168
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 1: behalf of the administration. If they had just said, wait

169
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,280
Speaker 1: a minute, before you go to a press conference, let's

170
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: just explain to you what this decision means and does

171
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 1: not mean that maybe he could have presented it a

172
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: little differently, although knowing him, I'm not sure that anybody

173
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,000
Speaker 1: could have stopped him from screaming at the Supreme Court,

174
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:41,200
Speaker 1: which doesn't accomplish anything other than it causes those who

175
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,439
Speaker 1: already disliked Trump to dislike him even more. And then

176
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,400
Speaker 1: people like me who love his policies and think that

177
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,079
Speaker 1: he's doing a lot of the great things that need

178
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,600
Speaker 1: to be done. Kind of makes me shake my head

179
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 1: and go But you know, we had midterm elections coming up,

180
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,839
Speaker 1: and this isn't helping because I don't care what you

181
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,839
Speaker 1: I'm telling you from personal experience that inside the belt Way, everything,

182
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 1: every single thing is about the next election, which is

183
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,480
Speaker 1: why I think that Republicans are being stupid when it

184
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,960
Speaker 1: comes to things like the Save Act. You know, go ahead,

185
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 1: throw it down and tell the Democrats we're gonna vote

186
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,440
Speaker 1: on it. And if you want to filibuster, filibuster and

187
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,720
Speaker 1: Philibuster all you want to, but we're gonna vote on this.

188
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,120
Speaker 1: And as soon as you all finish talking and you

189
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 1: all pass out and you got to go to the

190
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 1: bathroom and you can't talk anymore, then we're gonna have

191
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 1: an up and down vote. And I think the reason

192
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,439
Speaker 1: they don't do this because me and Republicans don't want

193
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 1: to pass the Save Act. It's always about the next election.

194
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 1: It's always again, it's always about the next power move.

195
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,560
Speaker 1: And so this is why, this is why I feel

196
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:50,840
Speaker 1: like I can come to you and just tell you

197
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,199
Speaker 1: the way it is, and whether you like what I'm

198
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:54,840
Speaker 1: saying or not doesn't make any difference to me, because

199
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you the way it really is inside

200
00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:02,080
Speaker 1: the Beltway. So let's go back to the Kavanaugh descent,

201
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,440
Speaker 1: because his descent is pretty amazing. It's amazing because of

202
00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 1: how it's written, what he says, and then nobody's talking

203
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,319
Speaker 1: about it. As I said before the break, he disagreed

204
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,680
Speaker 1: with the majority, but he did something fascinating. He said,

205
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,839
Speaker 1: you know, this decision, probably you and the majority are

206
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 1: probably not going to do anything by this to constrain

207
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,280
Speaker 1: the president's ability to order tariffs going forward. And then

208
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 1: he explained why, and he outlined at least four that

209
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: I can think of. Section two thirty two of the

210
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 1: Trade Expansion Act, going all the way back to nineteen

211
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,040
Speaker 1: sixty two. That statute allows the president to impose tariffs

212
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 1: on imports that threatened national security. Now the Commerce Department

213
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,160
Speaker 1: has to make it has to do an investigation and

214
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,200
Speaker 1: make a determination. They could do that already. In fact,

215
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 1: I would say shame of them if they haven't done

216
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,840
Speaker 1: that already when it comes to things like all the

217
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: no precursors coming out of China. And in fact, Trump

218
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,520
Speaker 1: used that particular Trade Act heavily in his first term

219
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 1: on steel and aluminum. So it's already underpinning the fifty

220
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,199
Speaker 1: percent tariffs on steel and aluminum and the twenty five

221
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,079
Speaker 1: percent tariffs on automobiles, and it was untouched by yesterday's decision.

222
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 1: Section three oh one of the Trade Act of nineteen

223
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 1: seventy four. That Act allows the president to impose tariffs

224
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 1: on countries that engage in unfair trade practices that are unjustifiable, unreasonable,

225
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:41,400
Speaker 1: or discriminatory that burden American commerce. Trump used it against

226
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 1: China in his first term big time. Those tariffs are

227
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 1: still in place. He could just increase them if he

228
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,080
Speaker 1: wants to, or add additional tariffs. Section one twenty two

229
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,960
Speaker 1: of the Trade Acts of nineteen seventy four. Now, this

230
00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,640
Speaker 1: one is specifically designed to address large and persistent trade deficits,

231
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,960
Speaker 1: which was literally one of the justifications that Trump used

232
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,640
Speaker 1: for his Liberation Day tariffs. In the very first place,

233
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,560
Speaker 1: it allows for tariff of up to fifteen percent for

234
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,800
Speaker 1: up to one hundred and fifty days. Oh, there's another

235
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,720
Speaker 1: one two, Section three point thirty eight of the Terrifactor

236
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 1: of nineteen thirties. I skimmed through Kevanaugh's decision. That's the

237
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 1: Smoot that that comes out of the Smoot Holly era

238
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 1: that allows the president to impose tariffs on goods from

239
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:32,120
Speaker 1: countries that discriminate against US commerce. Now, Secretary percent had

240
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:38,120
Speaker 1: this Treasury Secretary had already been quietly preparing those tariffs

241
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 1: as part of his Plan B. And then Kevanaugh's summary

242
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 1: was essentially this quote. The President checked the wrong statutory box.

243
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,160
Speaker 1: He should have checked one of these other boxes. Now

244
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 1: that's not a ringing endorsement of free trade. That's a

245
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:04,600
Speaker 1: dissent saying the result might have been the same either way. Now,

246
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,600
Speaker 1: let's talk about what actually happened after the ruling came

247
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 1: down yesterday, because the administration didn't curl up in a

248
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 1: fetal position. In fact, they did just the opposite. They

249
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 1: were screaming like a newborn. They were screaming like a

250
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,880
Speaker 1: newborn that had just been delivered and spat it on

251
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 1: his buttons, screaming and hollering and trying to breathe in air.

252
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 1: Trump held the press conference, and he called the ruling

253
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 1: deeply disappointing, and he described the justices in the majority

254
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 1: in terms that were, well, let's just say colorful. Now,

255
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 1: I don't think he was wrong to be frustrated, but

256
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 1: here's what else he said. The Supreme Court did not

257
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,720
Speaker 1: overrule tariffs. They merely overruled a particular use of IEPA

258
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 1: tariffs close quote. And then he said he has I've

259
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 1: got methods, I've got statutes, I've got practices, and I've

260
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,840
Speaker 1: got authorities as recognized by the entire Court and Congress

261
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 1: that are even stronger than yipa teriff's. Yes, so why

262
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 1: throw the hissy fit? And before the sun went down yesterday,

263
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: he signed another executive order. It imposed a ten percent

264
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 1: global tariff it was imposed under Section one twenty two

265
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 1: of the Trade Acts of nineteen seventy four. It's effective

266
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 1: next week. Certain goods got exempted, critical minerals, coinage metals,

267
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 1: some vehicles, I think, some energy products. But it's ten

268
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 1: percent baseline tariff on essentially everything else still standing, still law,

269
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 1: and it's still in effect now. Yes, Section one twenty

270
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 1: two does cabin at fifteen percent, and it does have

271
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 1: a one hundred and fifty day clock. But Trump isn't

272
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 1: just sitting on that. The Trade Representative Jameson Greer has

273
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 1: already confirmed they're launching additional Section three oh one investigations

274
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 1: in the Commerce Department because that requires that the Commerce

275
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: Department make a determination that it's in our national security

276
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 1: interest to impose a tariff. So those two Section two

277
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 1: thirty two national security investigations are underway, or honestly, I

278
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,160
Speaker 1: bet some of them have already been concluded for multiple

279
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,960
Speaker 1: product categories. The five months that Section one twenty two

280
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,800
Speaker 1: buys those tariffs is the time to get all of

281
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 1: the alternative authorities formally documented and in place, and Trump

282
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 1: even himself, but at this way, the alternative measures will

283
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,600
Speaker 1: actually increase the amount of money coming into the country.

284
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 1: So let's think about the constitutional backdrop and why this

285
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 1: is complicated, and let me give you a little constitutional

286
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 1: context because I think that it matters. And quite frankly,

287
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 1: I want you to understand this. Hang tight. I'll do

288
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:58,760
Speaker 1: that next. I'll be right back to night.

289
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 2: Michael Brown joins me here in former FEMA director of

290
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,280
Speaker 2: talk show host Michael Brown.

291
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 1: Brownie, no, Brownie, You're doing a heck of a job

292
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 1: the Weekend with Michael Brown. Hey, welcome back to the

293
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:09,840
Speaker 1: Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to have you with me.

294
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,679
Speaker 1: We were talking about this Supreme Court decision yesterday and

295
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: how everybody's running around with their heads on fire. And

296
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 1: I don't understand why I don't get it. I don't

297
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,720
Speaker 1: get it because one, I happen to agree with the decision,

298
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,200
Speaker 1: and it's one of the few times in my life

299
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,359
Speaker 1: that I really think that the dissent written by Justice

300
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: Thomas and concurred in with by Justice Alito Kavanaugh writing

301
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 1: separately for himself, I happen to disagree with Justice Thomas,

302
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 1: which is very unusual for me. But that's why when

303
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 1: we give you a little constitutional context, because I think

304
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 1: that it matters. Article one section eight of the Constitution,

305
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 1: Article one, Section eight. If you want to go look

306
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: it up. It explicitly gives Congress the power to lay

307
00:18:54,240 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 1: and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, and it gives

308
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 1: Congress the power to regulate commerce with foreign nations. So Congress,

309
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 1: under the Constitution has the power to impose tariffs. It

310
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 1: is textually there, it is unambiguously there. But over the

311
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 1: course of the twentieth century, Congress handed huge chunks of

312
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 1: that authority directly to the executive branch. The Trade Expansion

313
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 1: Act of nineteen sixty two, the Trade Act of nineteen

314
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: seventy four. Those statutes represent Congress voluntarily delegating its teriff

315
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: authority to the president. Now, in many cases there are

316
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 1: some carefully specified conditions. So what Trump tried to do

317
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: with IIPA was used an emergency statute, a statute that

318
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 1: was designed for sanctions, assets, asset freezes, blocking financial transactions.

319
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: Trump tried to use as a catch all teriff authority,

320
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: and the court said, wait a minute, that's a bridge

321
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 1: too far, because the statute doesn't even mention tariffs. And

322
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: given the magnitude of what the President was claiming, which

323
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 1: was unlimited tariffs on virtually any country in the world,

324
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 1: you would need Congress to have said so clearly. That's

325
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:24,479
Speaker 1: what's called the major questions doctrine in constitutional law, a

326
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: big policy, you have to have clear congressional authorization. But

327
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: here's the irony that nobody's pointing out. By striking down

328
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: IEPA tariffs on the Major Questions doctrine, the Court has

329
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: essentially validated all the other statutes. Those are the ones

330
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: where Congress did explicitly draft for tariff purposes, because, like

331
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: take Section two thirty two, for example, it expressly authorizes

332
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: national security tariffs. Section three oh one expressly authorizes unfair

333
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: trade tariffs. Section one twenty two expressly authorizes balance of

334
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 1: payment tariffs. So the Court's logic actually strengthens the legal

335
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 1: foundation for tariffs imposed under those statutes, because Congress was

336
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: doing exactly what the Court that it needed to do,

337
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: speaking clearly and unambiguously. So there you have it. So

338
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 1: all of this gnashing of the teeth and the ringing

339
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 1: of the hands and the hair on fire and everything else,

340
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: everybody gets the fire extinguisher out and calm down. Now

341
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: there is an actual mess out of this decision, but

342
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to do anything with the president's authority.

343
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: The actual mess that is genuinely messy is a one

344
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollar plus question, and that is the question

345
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: about the refunds. If we've already collected X number of

346
00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,040
Speaker 1: dollars in refunds, the question now is what are you

347
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: do about that?

348
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 3: So since liberation, hey, there's about one hundred and seventy

349
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 3: five billion dollars in TEARFF revenue that is now in limbo.

350
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 3: Do you have to refund one hundred and seventy five

351
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 3: billion bater fair?

352
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: Fair question.

353
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: They take months and months to write an opinion, and

354
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 2: they don't even discuss that point. We've taken in hundreds

355
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: of billions of dollars, not millions, hundreds of billions of dollars,

356
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 2: and so I said, well, what.

357
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: Happens all the money that we took in.

358
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 2: It wasn't discussed. Wouldn't you think they were to have

359
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 2: put one sentence in there saying that keep the money

360
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: or don't keep the money? Right, I guess it has

361
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 2: to get litigated for the next two years. So they

362
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 2: writed this terrible defective decision, totally defective. It's almost like

363
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: not written by smart people. And what they do they

364
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: don't even talk about that. Your question is very basic.

365
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: I was the first question I asked. Also to make

366
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 2: you feel good, I said, what about all the money

367
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: that we've taken in Sure they don't discuss that.

368
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: How crazy is that? Well, it's not actually crazy at all.

369
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: So let's walk through that refund question. As of mid December,

370
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: Customs and Border Border Patrol had collected about one hundred

371
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: and thirty three billion NAIPA tariff revenue. The Penharton School

372
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: of Business projects that up to one hundred and seventy

373
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: five billion dollars could be subject to refund claims. And

374
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 1: guess what the Supreme Court, he's right, said absolutely nothing

375
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: about it. Zero. The majority opinion was completely silent on

376
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: the issue of refunds. Justice Kavanaugh, in his dissent, was

377
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: not pleased about that omission. He called the refrom refund

378
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: process a likely mess. And that's actually a quote from

379
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: Justice Barrett and oral argument that he was citing. And

380
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: he warned that the government quote may be required to

381
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,959
Speaker 1: refund billions of dollars to importers. But here's the complications.

382
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: Generally have one hundred and eighty days after their goods

383
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: are liquidated by customs to file a protest and to

384
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: request a refund, But many importers pass the cost of

385
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: those tariffs on to you and me, the customers. They're consumers.

386
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 1: So the importer gets the refund, not the consumer who

387
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: actually paid a higher price. Now that's a political problem,

388
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: and that's not something the Court is going to fix.

389
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: In other words, I would put it this way. While

390
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: it's right for gaff Kavanaugh to raise the refund question,

391
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: like we ought to think practically about what this is

392
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: going to mean, the court doesn't have the authority, it's

393
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: outside their purview to answer that question because it's a

394
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: political question and the courts are not supposed to deal

395
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: with political questions. So now the trade lawyers just kind

396
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: of generally speaking as like kind of dig through the

397
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: news stories are now saying it could take anywhere from

398
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen months to sort that out, and the

399
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: Court of International Trade in New York is going to

400
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 1: be working through this for years. It's not a simple

401
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: push a button and refund everybody's situation. The administration is

402
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: also kind of signaled that it intends to contest the

403
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: scope of the refunds because the majority didn't order them,

404
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: and Trump himself indicated they'd be litigating that issue too.

405
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: So don't get excited thinking that you bought something that

406
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: got imported from China or I don't care, Malaysia or

407
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: someplace else, and the price before the import, before you uh,

408
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: the tariff was about ninety five and you paid two

409
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: fifty after the tariff, and you want a fifty five

410
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: cent refund. It's not going to happen. But let me

411
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: anticipate what you're going to hear from the other side,

412
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: because I think you're going to hear a lot of it.

413
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: And this gets to the real political issue argument number one.

414
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: This is a major defeat for Trump's economic agenda. Really

415
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: to find the tell me what you mean by defeat.

416
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: The teriff rate on all imports dropped back towards seven

417
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: percent from about seventeen percent temporarily by Tuesday, there's already

418
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: a ten percent global tariff back in place. Section two

419
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: thirty two tariffs and steel, aluminum, autos and a dozen

420
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: other categories are entirely untouched. Section three oh one China

421
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: tariffs untouched. The trade war with China, it's not over.

422
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: The leverage is still there. What changed is the procedural vehicle. Again,

423
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: I go back to my analogy. He went to the

424
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: car rental lot at the airport and he got in

425
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: the wrong car. And the court said, wait a minute,

426
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: you rented this car that you're authorized under your agreements

427
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: rent this car. You got in the wrong car. So

428
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: the first argument's just dead in the water. Argument number two,

429
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: the court protected the constitution and the separation of powers.

430
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: Now this one I've got some sympathy for, because Congress

431
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: does have the constitutional tariff power and the right to

432
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: say that AIPA, this particular statute, a sanctioned statute, not

433
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: a tariff statute, should not be read to swallow the

434
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: entire tariff code. That is a legitimate constitutional point. But

435
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: note carefully, the court did not say that Congress can't

436
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: delegate tariff authority. It just said that this statue didn't

437
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: do that Congress can act. And the alternative statues that

438
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: Kavanaugh enumerated in his descent represent Congress already having done

439
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: exactly what the Court said needed to be done. Under

440
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: the Major Questions doctrine, they specifically granted the president authority

441
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: to impose tariffs in certain situations, and that's what he

442
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: can go do now, and then the left wants to

443
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: argue the trade deals that Trump made are now in jeopardy. Now,

444
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting legal question because many of

445
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: the bilateral trade deals that were struct in the past year,

446
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: those were negotiated under the shadow of the IEPA teriffs. Now,

447
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: if those tariffs were illegal, what happens to those deals.

448
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: That's where it gets complicated. Some deals might need to

449
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: be renegotiated, and some foreign governments, if they're smart, might

450
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: use that as leverage. But Trump's upcoming April visit to China,

451
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: it now has an entirely different character because he's going

452
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: to need to demonstrate that he still has a credible

453
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: tariff threat. And now his task is to prove that

454
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: the alternative authorities get him there, and I think he'll

455
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: do it without question. So the bottom line, don't go away.

456
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: That's next. Hey, welcome back to the weekend with Michael Brown.

457
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: We're talking about the whole Supreme Court decision yesterday in

458
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: which they ruled the under IEPA a very specific statute

459
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: that the does not have the authority to impose tariffs

460
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: using that statute. And as the Court makes clear in

461
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: their non response to Kavanaugh's descent. He does have the

462
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: authority under the Major Questions Doctrine to impose tariffs, where

463
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: Congress has in other trade acts specifically given him the

464
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: authority for national security reasons, trade imbalances, everything else to

465
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: impose tariffs. So this this whole hulla balloo that the

466
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: cabal is trying to feed you that, Oh my god,

467
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: the economy. Trump's dad presidency is over. Supreme Court's ruled

468
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: against him. It was sixty three. Even some of those

469
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: he's appointed ruled against him. Yes, because they were following

470
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: the law.

471
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: You know.

472
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: The one question that keeps sticking in the back of

473
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: my mind was why would the administration use bad advice

474
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: to use this particular statute when they have all the

475
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: other options to use. They could have easily done all

476
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: the other things as they did in the first administration.

477
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: So I don't think that Trump was staffed well on this.

478
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: And in so far as the refund's concerned, you're going

479
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: to hear a lot about that, Peter. Thank you, President Trump.

480
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: So since Liberation Day, there's about one hundred and seventy

481
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: five billion dollars in tariff revenue that is now in limbo.

482
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: Do you have to refund one hundred and seventy five billion, Thank.

483
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: You, Peter firfair question.

484
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: They take months and months to write an opinion and

485
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: they don't even discuss that point. We've taken in hundreds

486
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: of billions.

487
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: Let me just say this about that. They didn't discuss

488
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: it because it's outside their purview. It would have been

489
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: helpful if they had thought about just saying, we don't

490
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: get to the issue of what to do next. We

491
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: don't address the issue of refunds because that is beyond

492
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: our authority, That is beyond our purview. That's not illegal

493
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: issue raised in this case, and that's a political decision

494
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: to be made by the other branches of government. So

495
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: I do fall the court for not having at least

496
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: anticipated that that would have been a question. They still

497
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't have answered it, but they would they could have

498
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: made clear to the uninformed cabal that it's not within

499
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: their purview.

500
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: Of dollars, not millions, hundreds of billions of dollars. And

501
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: so I said, well, what happens all the money that

502
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: we took in. It wasn't discussed. Wouldn't you think they

503
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: would have put one sentence in there saying that keep

504
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: the money or don't keep the money, right, I guess.

505
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: They couldn't have said that. That's not their decision. And

506
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: in fact, Trump's probably right, it'll have to be. In fact,

507
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: I think it will have to be litigated or have

508
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: to be renegotiated. He needs to come out forcefully next

509
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: week and remind not just Americans, but he needs to

510
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: write remind all these foreign leaders that you're probably hearing

511
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: from our news media, American news media, and you're probably

512
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: hearing from your own foreign news media, your domestic news media,

513
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: about how horrible this is for me. But let me

514
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: set you straight. It is not, and it does not

515
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: change my negotiation position or my negotiation advantage. So here's

516
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: the bottom line. Here's the takeaway. I want you to

517
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: say it to your friends. I want you to say

518
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: at the dinner table, to your co workers. I want

519
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: you to say it to anybody that raises this question. First,

520
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court did not say that tariffs are unconstitutional.

521
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: It said that this statute IEPA wasn't the right law

522
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: to impose those tariffs, got it. Two, the president has

523
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: multiple other trade laws that have explicit congressional authorization that

524
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: allow him to impose tariffs. And in some cases he's

525
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: already using those statutes. This is the Major Questions doctrine.

526
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: I don't ask you to remember that, but it basically

527
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: says that if Congress is going to do something like

528
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: delegate some of their own constitutional authority to the executive branch,

529
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: they need to be explicit and spell it out. And

530
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: in these other statutes they have done exactly that. So remember, one,

531
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: the Court didn't say that tariffs are unconstitutional, and two

532
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: we know that there are other explicit congressional authorizations that

533
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: allow him to impose tariffs. Three, a ten percent global

534
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: tariff is already signed and takes effect I think on Tuesday,

535
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, midnight or something, so he's already imposed

536
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: another ten percent tariff. Four. I think they have quietly,

537
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: and if they have that, they've gotten bad legal advice

538
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: and bad political advice. But my guess is understanding how

539
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: the White House works, that they have spent months preparing

540
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: exactly for this outcome because they didn't know which way

541
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: the Corps was are going to go. I think they

542
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: could have guessed because one of the first questions right

543
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: at in world argument to the Solicitor General from the

544
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: Chief Justice was but isn't this a tax? Doesn't it

545
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: act as a tax? And this Solicitor General had to admit, ye,

546
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: yes it is. It's a tax. It's a form of

547
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: a tariff. Bingo right there. Okay, let's go look at

548
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: the law. It's not in the law anywhere that says

549
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: you can do this. So I think they've been preparing

550
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: for this outcome for months. There is a Plan B,

551
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: and actually I think there's a Plan B, C, D, E,

552
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: and probably F. Fifth. The real legal drama is going

553
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: forward isn't whether tariffs exist. It's really going to be

554
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: the fight over the somewhere between one hundred and thirty

555
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: and one hundred and seventy five billion dollar refund, which will,

556
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: I believe, grind through the courts for years. So this

557
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: isn't the end of the tariff era. It's probably not

558
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: even speedmunk what it is. Of course, it's just a

559
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: course correction. The administration was told, hey, go back, get

560
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: in the right car, use the right tools. They already have.

561
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: All we need to do now is just watch what

562
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: happens next. But I would just remind everybody when I

563
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: talk about the cabal, I do include everybody now as

564
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: I walked into my studio this morning. Fox News was

565
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: on and they had Guy Benson on, and I know

566
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: guys again, Guy, I think he's smart, and he was

567
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: talking about pretty much kind of what I'm talking about.

568
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: This isn't the big deal that everybody else in the media,

569
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 1: both Fox News and others are making. It's not even

570
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 1: a temporary setback. It's just that, oh, you use this statue,

571
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: you can't use that one you used. You have to

572
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: use a different statute. The court ruled against him, and

573
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 1: within four hours he'd already signed a new Terraford orund

574
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: a different statute. I don't know about you, but when

575
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: Trump said a few months ago on true social that

576
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: if the court rules against us were screwed, that doesn't

577
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: look very screwed to me. Everybody, take a deep breath,

578
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: Hang tight. I'll be right back