Speaker 1: All right, catching up here Scottslow on seven hundred WLW Live.
Speaker 1: You heard the voice of Stephen m Attorney from the
Speaker 1: Finny Law Firm for Terry Thiji. She's on paid administrative
Speaker 1: leave as chief from the City of Cincinnati, standing behind
Speaker 1: in the civilian clothes, not speaking obviously, let the lawyer
Speaker 1: do the talking, for she's always smart. We've heard that
Speaker 1: Terry Thiji, a cops cop here, a long family cops
Speaker 1: and law enforcement in Cincinnati from the West Side, was
Speaker 1: asked to resign. She refused because there's no cause. And
Speaker 1: on her thirty fifth anniversary of her start on the
Speaker 1: job as a police office, she finds out that she's
Speaker 1: being put on paid administrative leave, meaning we're looking for reasons. Now,
Speaker 1: we don't have reason to fire you, we're looking for reasons,
Speaker 1: and we're going to put you on unpaid administrative leave.
Speaker 1: So what we got right now is a good old standoff.
Speaker 1: If she stays, she gets the authority to do her job.
Speaker 1: If she goes, it's going to cost you and missus
Speaker 1: tax payer millions and millions of dollars that you can
Speaker 1: all afford. And it doesn't really solve the issue on this.
Speaker 1: With some instant reaction is the president of the Queen
Speaker 1: City Lodge of the FFP, that's Ken Kober, can appreciate
Speaker 1: you jumping in this morning.
Speaker 2: Sure, thanks you to me. Step.
Speaker 1: Looks like the no confidence vote you had for this
Speaker 1: administration really really stands up at this point, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean they've fumbled this from the get go. You
Speaker 3: have the chief fly across the country, only the land
Speaker 3: in Denver. You to go to a conference representing the
Speaker 3: city in the police department only to tell her to
Speaker 3: come home. And then I mean what we've seen over
Speaker 3: the last five days is just absolutely they fumbled this
Speaker 3: whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's terrible.
Speaker 1: Well, in addition to that, the person they appointed chief, Henny,
Speaker 1: is the interim chief now and according to sheerlong city manager,
Speaker 1: she said, he has my full support. I'm confident in
Speaker 1: his leadership. I don't know if he's doing the next chief,
Speaker 1: but this is the command officer who signed a citation
Speaker 1: against the white guy in the brawl in July at
Speaker 1: the urging of the mayor, which is purely political, not criminal.
Speaker 1: Even though Henny wasn't on the scene. He ran the
Speaker 1: Central Business district and that had the high spike in
Speaker 1: crime this year. The optics of that are bad for
Speaker 1: the it gets. It goes from bad to worse for
Speaker 1: these guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you the optics are certainly not good.
Speaker 3: But I will say this about Colonel Henny is you
Speaker 3: know that whole debacle, he was doing nothing but protecting
Speaker 3: investigators from having to do what they just said I'm
Speaker 3: not going to do. And instead of them facing the
Speaker 3: consequences for standing up to it, you know, he stepped
Speaker 3: in and he protected cops, which is something that we
Speaker 3: certainly all appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that from a cops perspective, like
Speaker 1: he got our backs. I'm not going to let the
Speaker 1: rank and file take the take the fall on this.
Speaker 1: But again I don't I don't know what the ethicy.
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty unethical though, is that you're told
Speaker 1: by the mayor to do something. It's like, that's not
Speaker 1: how our justice system works. As much as these people
Speaker 1: spend complaining about Donald Trump, you just did the exact
Speaker 1: same thing that you're allegedly against. But I digress a
Speaker 1: little bit. And the other thing too is if she
Speaker 1: were effective as chief, why wouldn't we have so much
Speaker 1: violent crime? I think that's the big question here is like, well,
Speaker 1: violent crime has continue to go up. The optics are
Speaker 1: bad on this. We have Fountain Square, we had the
Speaker 1: shooting in front of the in between. It just keeps
Speaker 1: coming and coming and coming despite what we do. And
Speaker 1: yet it wasn't all long ago. He said, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: things are effective. She's doing a good job. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're effective at something, we should have less violent crime,
Speaker 1: not more.
Speaker 3: Well, this just proves what we know all along, and
Speaker 3: it proves what I've been saying all along, which is
Speaker 3: we need to keep politics out of policing.
Speaker 2: And when you have the city manager.
Speaker 3: The mayor who over over at city Hall, is telling
Speaker 3: her what she can and can't do, it's proving that
Speaker 3: that's failing. You know, Chief Thiji has the ability to
Speaker 3: be an effective police chief. Unfortunately she's not given that
Speaker 3: ability right now, and when she's told what to do
Speaker 3: by city Hall, she's told what she can can't do.
Speaker 3: The end result is that this is what we have.
Speaker 3: And this is ultimately why you know, the rank and
Speaker 3: file voted for voting no confidence against the mayor, because
Speaker 3: they should allow the chief independently to do what she
Speaker 3: wants to do. And if she was screwing it up them,
Speaker 3: then by all means.
Speaker 2: Do something about it.
Speaker 3: But the fact that they didn't fire their asking her
Speaker 3: to resign says everything you need to know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this isn't her egg that this is about
Speaker 1: keeping yours with Steve im said, So she has no
Speaker 1: desire to go quietly. Actually she's going to go rather violently,
Speaker 1: and it's going to cost a lot of money to
Speaker 1: make her go away. I'm just wondering would the city
Speaker 1: give up authority because this is issue five. So let's talk
Speaker 1: about that the background, and that it came after Timothy
Speaker 1: Thomas was shot and killed in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: caused the riots. We had a charter amendment the issue
Speaker 1: that passed I believe in November that year with just
Speaker 1: over fifty percent of the vote I think fifty fifty
Speaker 1: one fifty two percent. But essentially Issue five, you've mentioned
Speaker 1: that a lot ken is that the city manager in
Speaker 1: this case here along has the power to hire and
Speaker 1: fire a police chief, fire chief, department heads at whim
Speaker 1: at will, and there's no balance in that whatsoever. In
Speaker 1: the past, it used to be the FOP you guys
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a say in that you
Speaker 1: don't have that anymore.
Speaker 2: Is that what lead to this?
Speaker 3: Well, sure, you know, and ultimately with that passing allowing
Speaker 3: one person to have sole authority as to whether you
Speaker 3: fire a police chief or a fire chief. It's been
Speaker 3: proven with the fire chief. It's now been proven with
Speaker 3: what's going on with chief that this is a terrible idea.
Speaker 3: There has to be changes to Issue five otherwise we're
Speaker 3: going to continue to see the same thing.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who you make the police chief.
Speaker 3: As long as city Hall still is making the decisions
Speaker 3: as to what's going to go on with the police department,
Speaker 3: this is what.
Speaker 2: We're going to have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's Ken Cobert, president of the FOP. The reaction
Speaker 1: to Attorney Steve Imms press conference he heard live on
Speaker 1: seven hundred WLIW and on the stream via the iHeart
Speaker 1: radio app too, and that is saying we're fighting this,
Speaker 1: so we're not going to let Terry Thiji take essentially
Speaker 1: be a sacrificial lamb is what he called her, and
Speaker 1: said this stile thing is disappointing and there's no justification
Speaker 1: or cause, which is a legal term, no cause because
Speaker 1: she took no action or inaction on her part to
Speaker 1: cause her termination or it looks like at least her
Speaker 1: suspension no wrongdoing, and they're going to fight this thing
Speaker 1: tooth and nail and we'll see what happens. But relative
Speaker 1: to Issue five in this case, I had some notes
Speaker 1: here from back in the day in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: the manager for Issue five that we're talking about here said,
Speaker 1: this is how other cities do it. And of course,
Speaker 1: you know, if other cities do it well, then it's
Speaker 1: got to be successful for Cincinnati. At the time, your predecessor,
Speaker 1: Keith Fangman, remember Keith Keith was the fop P president,
Speaker 1: and said, what's going to happen is it's going to
Speaker 1: politicize departments. What's going to happen is you're going to
Speaker 1: have politicians making decisions of law enforcement. And anytime that
Speaker 1: something happens it's bad. The chief is going to be
Speaker 1: a sacrificial and we'll have a revolving door. And in
Speaker 1: that case he illustrated the Cleveland when they implemented this,
Speaker 1: they went through nine police chiefs, I believe in less
Speaker 1: than eight years because of the system. And now Terry
Speaker 1: Thiji's gone after what three not quite three, We had
Speaker 1: a chief before them. It's just going to be a
Speaker 1: revolving door because the political will power exists and there's
Speaker 1: cover politically speaking, to terminate the chief when in fact
Speaker 1: it's not the chief. It's kind of like our foot
Speaker 1: our sports teams can it's it's never the coach, the
Speaker 1: assistant coach, the line cut, it's always the ownership in
Speaker 1: the front office.
Speaker 2: That's what he's saying.
Speaker 3: Without a doubt. I mean, Keith, he was spot on
Speaker 3: when he said it. That was twenty four years ago.
Speaker 3: We saw it with James Craig. He was the first
Speaker 3: chief to hired outside this police department. The rank and
Speaker 3: file loved him. He refused to cave the pressure from
Speaker 3: city Hall and after two years they went thanks, but no,
Speaker 3: thanks for gone. You know, we got another chief that
Speaker 3: came in, made it eighteen months they fired him. So
Speaker 3: this is no surprise that this is all coming to
Speaker 3: fruition and it needs a change.
Speaker 1: Can this change before you overturn issue Fiation five, I'd
Speaker 1: have to go back on the ballot. You'd have to
Speaker 1: figure out how to work around that. Because there was
Speaker 1: a charter amendment that passed in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: a lot of work to overdo that and the will
Speaker 1: of the voters, of course, but can Chief thee Is
Speaker 1: there room for her to come back and do her job?
Speaker 3: I don't know why she'd want to at this point,
Speaker 3: the way that she's been treated. I mean, you treat
Speaker 3: somebody as thirty five years you've given to the city,
Speaker 3: and this is how you're being treated. And I can
Speaker 3: tell you right now the cops are going if they're
Speaker 3: going to do this to the chief, what will they
Speaker 3: do to me? I don't know why you would want
Speaker 3: to come back. I just don't see a scenario where
Speaker 3: that happens, because then she's going to be constantly looking.
Speaker 2: At her so old or what are they going to
Speaker 2: do to me next? I feel for and like.
Speaker 3: I said, this is this fight with the FOP in
Speaker 3: the city is just as much about Chief Figi as
Speaker 3: it is for the next chief, for the chief after that,
Speaker 3: the chief fifty years from now. There has got to
Speaker 3: be change made. And if I have to put all
Speaker 3: the effort in the world to the FOP to make
Speaker 3: sure that Issue five is changed, and that's exactly what
Speaker 3: we're going to do.
Speaker 1: Ken Kober, the name that was mentioned the cause Steve
Speaker 1: m to just simply pause consider it and then say,
Speaker 1: I can't comment on that was the name Iris Rawley,
Speaker 1: how much? How many fingerprints are on this? Her fingerprints
Speaker 1: are on what's happening right now.
Speaker 3: You know, it's hard saying it wouldn't surprise me. But
Speaker 3: the problem is there was no transparency at city hall.
Speaker 3: That is the absolute problem. You had the mayor say
Speaker 3: after the press conference that we're exploring all options. We're
Speaker 3: not sure if that's the chief's going to stay or not.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, you know, nothing happens.
Speaker 3: And then the mayor comes out and says, oh, this
Speaker 3: is show a Long's decision. It's not my decision, it's hers.
Speaker 3: And of course then she makes the decision. Oh, I
Speaker 3: completely support her to say, it's just the lack of
Speaker 3: transparency is staggering coming from city Hall.
Speaker 1: Well, the fact of the matter, she goes to Denver,
Speaker 1: she gets recalled, there's an urgent message, there's an urgent
Speaker 1: issue in Cincinnati. We already had the Fountain Square shootings
Speaker 1: at this point. She's off to Denver. She comes back
Speaker 1: and now they go, well, we're going to suspend, you'll
Speaker 1: put you on paid leave. Why, well, we can't say
Speaker 1: we don't know, but here's the interim chief, and this
Speaker 1: whole thing has been handled so poorly. In drag, Effer said,
Speaker 1: but it's decision after decision like this, you know, like
Speaker 1: when we after food carts and red bikes, in breaking
Speaker 1: up the probation departments, all these things that actually made
Speaker 1: crime worse or had no impact on whatsoever. And now,
Speaker 1: ultimately the last thing they have, the last quiver in
Speaker 1: their arsenal, is firing the chief. And I'll point out
Speaker 1: ken I read this earlier in the show, and I
Speaker 1: think it's worth pointing out again that when she was
Speaker 1: hired in twenty twenty two to replace Elliot Isaac, she
Speaker 1: was an executive assistant chief first woman to lead the department,
Speaker 1: and she said in her first interview or her swearing
Speaker 1: in her priorities upon taking office, We're dedicated to cheering
Speaker 1: CPD is as inclusive as possible, and I'm committed wholeheartedly
Speaker 1: to continuing the work of the collaborative Agreement. That sounds
Speaker 1: like someone who's saying that because she know how she
Speaker 1: got the job, Like those are the marching orders she
Speaker 1: was given by the administration as opposed to well, dealing
Speaker 1: with street level crime yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. You know, it's funny how this is all transpiring. Now,
Speaker 3: It's like making an arrest and then deciding what the
Speaker 3: crime is. I mean, that's literally, that's how ridiculous this is.
Speaker 3: We're gonna put you on leave until we can figure
Speaker 3: out why it is that we're actually going to fire you,
Speaker 3: and then we're going to do it.
Speaker 2: It's it's absolutely nonsense.
Speaker 3: And the rank and file recognizes that, you're regardless of
Speaker 3: how they feel about her as the chief, how they
Speaker 3: feel about her as a police officer, none of that matters.
Speaker 3: The rank and files. Well, and this is at right
Speaker 3: to treat somebody this way. And that's why I said
Speaker 3: that the police department, the rank and file has certainly
Speaker 3: been united over this.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a terrible thing. And that normally, if you're
Speaker 1: looking to get rid of somebody, and I've worked for
Speaker 1: places and work for places where they're always looking to
Speaker 1: you know, cut, cut some baggage, lose, they build a file.
Speaker 1: They go, okay, well this person is doing this. Okay,
Speaker 1: we've got a file. We've got to and you build
Speaker 1: a history so that if you have to terminate someone,
Speaker 1: you can point to that and go it's not discrimination.
Speaker 1: It's for cause. Here's the causes. They don't have that here.
Speaker 1: They suspended her paid administrative leave, and now they're looking
Speaker 1: for reasons to go back and say, here's why we
Speaker 1: put you on leave. And this could go on for
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks and weeks to try and funds find
Speaker 1: some dirt on Terry Thiji that may or may not
Speaker 1: probably doesn't exist because you would have had this stuff
Speaker 1: already right exactly. And I guess it does have a
Speaker 1: chilling effect in police officers. But you know, we also
Speaker 1: mentioned that the city just went in their pocket for money,
Speaker 1: even more money, another four and a half million dollars
Speaker 1: to pay police office, try and recruit police office because
Speaker 1: as you know, and you often said, were what one
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty tow one hundred and fifty cops down?
Speaker 1: Which is also part of the problem too, because we
Speaker 1: spent money out of the other stupid things getting keeping
Speaker 1: boots on the ground.
Speaker 2: But what does that due to recruitment efforts?
Speaker 1: And Simon sees this from I don't know, we're talking
Speaker 1: about lateral recruitments, meaning you're stealing cops from other jurisdictions.
Speaker 1: Go come to shiny sunny Cincinnati and work here.
Speaker 2: It's great.
Speaker 1: How does that undermine the cause that you're trying to do,
Speaker 1: and that is getting more cops signed up, not less.
Speaker 1: This to me sounds like it make cops want to leave,
Speaker 1: not to stay.
Speaker 2: Without a doubt, I mean it is.
Speaker 3: It is certainly going to have a devastating effect on
Speaker 3: retention because we're going to see even more people say
Speaker 3: as they get twenty five years on that leave and
Speaker 3: then anybody that actually pays to pays attention to the media, Uh,
Speaker 3: they're not gonna want to come here. So it's gonna
Speaker 3: it's gonna also affect recruiting. And it's just every time
Speaker 3: we finally get out of the news over the you know,
Speaker 3: the attack at Fourth and Elm and how that was handled,
Speaker 3: and we finally get passed out and then now we
Speaker 3: have this, and it's just unfortunately City Hall seems to
Speaker 3: not be able to get out of their way when
Speaker 3: it comes to, uh, dealing with these issues. And it's
Speaker 3: certainly going to have a terrible impact on recruitment and retention.
Speaker 1: How long you think this drags out, what's your gut say?
Speaker 2: Who knows? I mean weeks? Who knows? I mean it's
Speaker 2: already drug out five or six days. I just who knows.
Speaker 3: I hope it ends quickly. It's what the men and
Speaker 3: women this police department deserve, It's what the residents deserve
Speaker 3: for this to be handled very quickly and let's move
Speaker 3: on whatever that looks like, whether it's her coming back,
Speaker 3: her not coming back, they need to.
Speaker 2: Resolve this very very quickly.
Speaker 1: I know the rank and file weren't enamored with Terry Thiji,
Speaker 1: but man, what the city just did is solidify every
Speaker 1: man and woman on that thin blue or white line
Speaker 1: as it is in Cincinnati, on her side.
Speaker 2: This is incredible. Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 1: He is Ken Kobert. He is the president of the
Speaker 1: Cincinnati a Lodge to the FOP, joining the show with
Speaker 1: his reaction following the press conference involving Terry Figi's administrative
Speaker 1: paid administrative leaves. I look for reasons to fire her,
Speaker 1: supposed to having reasons. Now we're gonna put you on leave,
Speaker 1: pay you, and then look for reasons to fire you.
Speaker 1: A's completely as backwards as it gets for any big city,
Speaker 1: or any city in America for that matter. But that's
Speaker 1: our town, that is Cincinnati, USA. Can all the best
Speaker 1: be safe? Thanks again, all.
Speaker 2: Right, thanks very much, Scott News.
Speaker 1: On the way, we'll shift it up a little bit here.
Speaker 1: Tim Holloway is the president of the Hamlin County Associations
Speaker 1: of Chiefs and Police. His reaction to this and also
Speaker 1: some of the areas that were pointed out in the
Speaker 1: press conference. You get a chance to get to and
Speaker 1: that would be judge's role in this whole thing, and
Speaker 1: the accusation by Steve im that have ted Puval won't
Speaker 1: engage county judges to force them to get tougher when
Speaker 1: it comes to bond and releasing people who are violent
Speaker 1: criminals on their own recognizance. Chief Holloway his reaction next
Speaker 1: seven hundred WWT, Cincinnati,