1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray w BZ Costs Radio. 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 2: We're going to open up a third topic tonight, and 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 2: this is one that you probably read a little bit 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: about in the last couple of days. And we actually 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,159 Speaker 2: have a little bit of sound here Rob that I 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: might be utilizing in this hour. Yesterday, the EU Supreme 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: Court heard arguments on an executive order that President Trump 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: had signed dealing with what's called birthright tourism. He is 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: very upset because, and I think rightfully so in my opinion, 10 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: if not from a legal point of view, at least 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: from a moral point of view, what is birth tourism? 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: Trump's asking the Supreme Court to uphold his order denying 13 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: US citizenship to babies born to foreigners who are only visiting. Now, 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: there's the law in America, which includes the fourteenth Amendment, 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: provides citizenship to any person who was born within not 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 2: only the United States, but also within the territories of 17 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 2: the United States. Now, going back to the fourteenth Amendment, 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: and again we don't need to get deep into the 19 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: legalities here because we can argue it back and forth. 20 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: But I don't know that that is totally productive. Basically, 21 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: what they're saying is that people who were born in America. Okay, 22 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: all persons accoting from the fourteenth Amendment now all persons 23 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to 24 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: the jurisdiction thereof. And again the phrase is subject to 25 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: the jurisdiction thereof citizens of the United States and of 26 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: the state wherein they reside. And no States shall make 27 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 2: or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or 28 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: immunities of citizens of the United States. No so any 29 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without 30 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 2: due process of law, nor tony to any person within 31 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 2: its jurisdiction equal protection of the laws. So the phrase 32 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: that is subject to the jurisdiction thereof, that is what 33 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: basically is being debated at the court. And we can 34 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: get deep into that if you want. But I think 35 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 2: they're up to the court to decide. In my opinion, 36 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: listening to the arguments yesterday, it's probably going to go 37 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 2: against the President of this. The President made the unprecedented, 38 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: took the unprecedent and stepped yesterday of actually to plug 39 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: himself to travel to the court and plunk himself down 40 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: in front of the justices, three of whom he had 41 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: appointed during his first term and make sure that they 42 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: understood how important he felt this case was. Based upon 43 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: what I heard yesterday, I think he'll be lucky if 44 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: he loses only seven to two. But will that will 45 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: come down, that will be done sometime in June, and 46 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: there may be, you know, future efforts to be done here. 47 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: But what we're talking about is there is now an 48 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: industry of what's called birth tourism. So what happens is 49 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: that those of us who were born here in the 50 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: United States of America were privileged to become US citizens, 51 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: and I think most of us when you think about it, 52 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: we represent the United States represents about six percent of 53 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: the eight billion people on the planet. So you and 54 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: I had about a six percent chance of being born 55 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: in the United States if you were born in the 56 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: United States, particularly of US citizens' parents. The issue now 57 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: is someone comes in the country illegally, comes across the border, 58 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: and has a baby. As a child, that person is 59 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 2: here illegally. Again, the argument is what do they mean 60 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: by subject to the jurisdiction thereof And it get into 61 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 2: some very complicated language dealing with domicile and domicilliaries. Domicillaries 62 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: whether or not individuals intended to come here and live here. 63 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: If they came here illegally, do they have the ability 64 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: to even form an intention of living here. So it 65 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 2: gets and it gets into old cases. But what's going 66 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: on is that China, which is a very smart country 67 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: and obviously I would argue is our number one enemy 68 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 2: right now, allows companies to operate in China with which 69 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: are companies that provide birth tourism, and they basically amongst 70 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: the uber wealthy in China, and there are uber wealthy 71 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: people in China, they will bring them to the United 72 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: States of America and they pay top dollar. They pay 73 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,119 Speaker 2: uputs of one hundred thousand dollars to be transported here 74 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: while they're late in a pregnancy, go to Los Angeles primarily, 75 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: although I'm now told that some of them are going 76 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: to US territories like Samoa and places in the in 77 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: the Lower Pacific, which is closer to China than the 78 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: West Coast of America. And as long as they give 79 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: birth to the child on US soil or on the 80 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: soil of a US territory, you know, while while in 81 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: either the US or on the territory of the US, 82 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 2: that child is born and it gets a citizenship at 83 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 2: US citizenship And now there's debate as from a practical 84 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: point of view as to whether or not this is 85 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: a big problem. But there's an article out of USA 86 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: Today from last week that said women are coached to 87 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: wear baggy clothing. Oh well, let me go back. Companies 88 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: with names like USA Happy Baby and Star Baby Care 89 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: offered to shepherd pregnant women from China, China, or any 90 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: other country into the US to give birth the children 91 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 2: recognized as US citizens before returning home. Women are coached 92 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: to wear baggy clothing to hide their pregnancies and mislead 93 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: customs officials about how long they would stay. According to 94 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: federal criminal indictments against these enterprises, Star Baby Care said 95 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 2: on its website that it provided services to eight thousand 96 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: pregnant women spanning twenty years. USA Happy Baby said it 97 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 2: charge of VIP customers up to one hundred thousand dollars. 98 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 2: But the extent of birth tourism and it start to 99 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: national security is hotly contested. Apparently, there are some estimates 100 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: that range from a marginal two thousand babies a year 101 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 2: to disputed allegations of one point five million over a 102 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: fifteen year span. The higher figure made its way into 103 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: congressional testimony, into arguments that they Supreme Court will hear 104 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: on April first, So a lot of this is concerning Okay, 105 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: by the way, just to anticipate some questions the subject. 106 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: The phrase subject to the jurisdiction has traditionally been understood 107 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: to mean the children of diplomats. Native Americans, because of 108 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: their tribal allegiance, were initially excluded, but were awarded birthright 109 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: citizenship under law in nineteen twenty four. There's also a 110 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: leading case that dealt with a Chinese immigrant eighteen ninety 111 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: six that has been holding has upheld the idea for 112 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty years now that people born here 113 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: irrespective of why they're here, if they're here and they 114 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: have a child, The big difference that has occurred is 115 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: that the framers of the Constitution never could have imagined 116 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: airline flights. They didn't have airline flights. Now there are 117 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 2: arguments made by many in front of the Supreme Court 118 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: that the Constitution has to adopt to current day circumstances. Generally, 119 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: conservatives argue, no, you've got to go to the text, 120 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: and you've got to go to the actual words in 121 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: the Constitution, and if they don't satisfy you, you go 122 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: to the debate which would have been in eighteen sixty 123 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: seven eighteen sixty eight dealing with the thirteenth, fourteenth, and 124 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: fifteenth Amendment, to find out what the intentions of the 125 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: second generation of Framers, not the framers from the seventeen hundreds, 126 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: but who wrote the Constitution in the first ten amendments, 127 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: but those who added parts of Constitution through the amendment process. 128 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: It seems to me that the Conservatives who have always 129 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: argued against the Constitution as being a flexible document and 130 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: kind of an evolving paradigm argument, et cetera, that you know, 131 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: there are laws against people coming here for the very 132 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: purpose and companies taking advantage of this commercially. However, we 133 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: are an exceptional country. I mean, most countries in the 134 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: world must media countries in the world, particularly our competitors, 135 00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: don't allow birthrights citizenship. There was a reason when the 136 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: Constitution was written and in subsequent years that we wanted 137 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 2: to have waves of people come here to settle the country. 138 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: And obviously after the bloody Civil War, we wanted to 139 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: make sure that slaves and the children of slaves were 140 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: United States citizens. They were brought here against their will, 141 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: but they spent generations here before the Civil War and 142 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 2: before the end of the Civil War. So I just 143 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 2: think that we as a country, I'm very generous, and 144 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: I know that there are people who say, oh, it's 145 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 2: you know, we need to be very open. But again 146 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: it comes back to me as an issue of borders, 147 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: and if we have borders, we have a right to 148 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: enforce those borders. And it just seems to me that 149 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: on a practical level, I'm not necessarily arguing the legality 150 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court will decide it. And listening to the 151 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: arguments and the response of the justices yesterday, and I 152 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: have some of that which I might play for you, 153 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: and I will play you that Donald Trump's not likely 154 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: to prevail on this particular case in front of the U. S. 155 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: Supreme Court. I want to ask you, do you have 156 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 2: any concern with companies in other countries that basically are profiting. 157 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: They are profiting making one hundred thousand dollars off wealthy 158 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 2: Chinese people. And there are people who are wealthy in China, 159 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 2: despite the fact it's a communist country, who are coming 160 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: here to have their children here and basically secure US 161 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: citizenship for the children, which once the children turn eighteen 162 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: or twenty one, they then might be able to bring 163 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: their parents over and basically bootstrap them up as citizens 164 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 2: in this country. This is a flaw in our system, 165 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: in my opinion, and it has to be addressed. I 166 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: am open to whatever ideas you might have as to 167 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: how to address this, but I don't think there's any 168 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: difference between the legal immigrant who comes in with the 169 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: intention of having a child while they're here, or they 170 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: have a child while they're here illegally. Uh, if someone's 171 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: here with a visa, I look at that differently. Six one, seven, two, five, 172 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: four to ten thirty six one seven, nine three one 173 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: ten thirty It is eleven twenty one. Let's get the 174 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: conversation started. My name is Dan Ray, and this is Nightside. 175 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: I think this is a really important issue. We can 176 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 2: argue it now in the court of public opinion. Back 177 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 2: on Nightside right after the break. 178 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio. 179 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: All right, we're talking about birthright citizenship again as I 180 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 2: understand it, I hope it's as you understand that. If 181 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: you understand it differently, that's part of the conversation six one, seven, two, five, 182 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 2: four to ten thirty one line there and six one seven, 183 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: nine three one ten thirty. I just think that we 184 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: have become very lax as a country. We are are 185 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 2: losing our identity and it is not a European identity. 186 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 2: It's a Western identity. And what I mean by that 187 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: is a country that appreciates rule of law as a democracy, 188 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: has standards based in many parts on religious beliefs. That 189 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 2: is what America has been, has always been. And I 190 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: think the more that you delute that we've always tolerated 191 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: people who do not are not religious, which is which 192 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: is great. But the again, the core of the country 193 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: is what we are losing in my opinion here, and 194 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: I want to hear from you. Let me go to 195 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: Julian Saugus. Hi, Julie, thanks for checking in. How are 196 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: you this evening? 197 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 3: Hi? 198 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: Dan? 199 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 4: How are you? 200 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 2: I'm doing great? What's your thought on this? And do 201 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: you understand it as I understand birthright citizenship? 202 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 5: Well, I'm going to tell you I have an experience 203 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 5: an obgyn and you know, we were always told, you know, 204 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 5: not to induce people before their term because it increases 205 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 5: the risk for c sections and I remember as an 206 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 5: employed physician back in the day, I was told that 207 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 5: I would have to special, meaning that I'd have to 208 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 5: do what they said for an institution that is now 209 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 5: owned by a large corporation that's well known in the 210 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 5: area of Boston. And I was told that I would 211 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 5: have to induce this person because they flew in from 212 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 5: Saudi Arabia and they wanted to have their child in 213 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 5: the United States. And I believe that they probably got 214 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 5: some funding from this wealthy family and those children. I 215 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 5: was obligated by the department chairman to induce this person 216 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 5: so that their child would be born in the United States. 217 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 5: How do I feel about it? I'm not quite sure, 218 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 5: but I thought it was a very bizarre situation for 219 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 5: us to be looked at and looking at our induction 220 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 5: rates to induce people when they're not term yet. 221 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm being. 222 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 5: Told that I have to special this VIP person who 223 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 5: had donated to the hospital system so that they would 224 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 5: have their child in America. 225 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: I'm curious. I'm curious, Julie, I'm not. Are you you're 226 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: a physician then yes? And ob Y n yep, Well, 227 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 2: thank you very much for your for your service. As 228 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: the dad of two children, I value obgy went and physicians. 229 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: So my question is how how far along was this? 230 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: This patient? 231 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 5: Thirty seven weeks? So normally we're we're told not to 232 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 5: induce somebody until they're at least about a week after 233 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 5: their due date. So this was four weeks early, and 234 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 5: at thirty seven weeks they can have some issues with 235 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 5: some respiratory problems. You're not supposed to induce somebody before term. 236 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 5: But I was under the obligation of a guidance of 237 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 5: the department chairman to do this, and I was very precarious. 238 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 5: Wait for me, because you know, we're being watched and 239 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 5: chastised if we induced somebody before they're supposed to be induced, 240 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 5: because we follow the American College what we do in guidelines. 241 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 6: So what is it? 242 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: What is the having been through this twice, what is 243 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: the normal UH term in terms of either days or 244 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: weeks or put it in weeks terms. 245 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 5: If you would, So normally forty weeks is full term. 246 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 5: Sometimes people are induced early because of other issues such 247 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 5: as high blood pressure or small for gestational age child 248 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 5: or something like that. But this was a fully healthy 249 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 5: female who UH just flew in and I was told, 250 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 5: you're going to induce this person. Her service was not 251 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 5: ready to be induced. But I was on call and 252 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 5: I was told that this is what's going to happen 253 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 5: because this was a VIP. 254 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, hopefully, hopefully everything went. There were no complications. 255 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: I'm sure you you you know you there. 256 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 5: Were no There were no complications. But it put me 257 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 5: in a precarious situation as somebody who was trying to 258 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 5: follow guidelines but also being told and monitored as to 259 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 5: when we didn't follow guidelines, but then sure not guidelines 260 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 5: when there was some type of monetary something. I mean, 261 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 5: I didn't ask. 262 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 2: Well, there was there was a let's put it like this, Julie, 263 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 2: there was a monetary inducement for you to induce. 264 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: That that woman exactly. 265 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 2: So here's my question. Here's my question. Let if you 266 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: you were not in a position where you could say 267 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: no ethically or whatever, medically, I'm not going to participate 268 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: in this, why would the family of that woman not say, okay, 269 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: we're here. We they didn't want her to go early, 270 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: and they had enough money to fly here from Saudi. 271 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: Why would they not have have said, look, we don't 272 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: want her induced? You know, well, we're at a hotel, 273 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: and let's let nature take its course and we're here, 274 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: and if there's any problem and she has to be induced. 275 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: That to me is what's weird that that they would 276 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: have the money to come here. I'm sure stay comfortably 277 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 2: at a hotel, and yet they were coming here and 278 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: they wanted they try to get here a little early, 279 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 2: because you know, if that's their purpose, they don't if 280 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: they don't want to have the child in Saudi Arabia 281 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 2: or wherever, they want to get here a little early. 282 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: You would think that they'd say, Okay, we're going to 283 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 2: spend a couple of days or maybe a week or 284 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: a week and a half in Boston before the child 285 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: is born. 286 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 5: Well, this person had had a child before, so she 287 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 5: was somebody who probably would have a child a little 288 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 5: more easily than at first. 289 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 7: Babe. 290 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 2: Yep, we learned that. 291 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 5: And I was employed at that time. I now have 292 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 5: a private practice. But I was not allowed to ask 293 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 5: any questions. Is when I did say, well, you know, 294 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 5: thirty seven weeks, what are you worried about respiratory distress 295 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 5: or anything like that? There was do not ask any questions. 296 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 5: You do what I say? This is what I'm telling 297 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 5: you to do as the chairman. 298 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 2: Well, you know, let me just say one thing. First 299 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 2: of all, you were doing what was morally correct. You 300 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: were doing what was medically correct. You were complying with 301 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: the Hippocratic oath, which is first, do no harm, and 302 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 2: you were put in a horrible situation because of that. 303 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 2: But how long ago was this? Roughly? Don't give me 304 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 2: a precise day, because I don't want someone to track 305 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: it down. 306 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 3: Yea, are you. 307 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 2: Talking ten years, twenty years, fifteen years? How long ago? 308 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 5: Probably fifteen years maybe eighteen years ago. 309 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So let me ask you this was that the 310 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: first time that you had sort of had a became 311 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: aware of the idea of birthright tourism. I'm sure this 312 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 2: family paid had the money to pay for it, so 313 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: they they probably did it on their own. 314 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 3: You know, there were a lot of it was. 315 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 5: It was my first experience with being told to do this, 316 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 5: and I was smart enough to understand what was going on, 317 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 5: and you know, I did question it because it was 318 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 5: we were always told that you don't do that, and 319 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 5: we're monitored for doing things that are outside the norm 320 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 5: of American College of Obijuan guidelines. And yet I'm being 321 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 5: told by this is b and this is what you're 322 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 5: going to. 323 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 2: Do unless your chairman instructs you to do that. So 324 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 2: therefore you would have been monitored. You're damned if you do, 325 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 2: and damned if you don't. Juliet, I love your call. 326 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 2: I thank you for having the guts and the courage 327 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: to join the conversation. Have you ever called before? Is 328 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: this your first time? 329 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 5: I've called before, maybe a couple of years ago. But 330 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 5: I enjoy listening to your talk and I appreciate your insight. 331 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, I mean, I I just am so 332 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 2: happy to know that there are still doctors who like yourself, 333 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: who have such high medical ethics. It is tough these 334 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 2: days to uh even even find a general practitioner, you know, 335 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 2: and I'm sure it has to be tough for the doctors. 336 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 2: I don't know how how we're going to straighten it 337 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: out in this country. Where we have enough doctors, we 338 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 2: need more doctors, uh in my in my opinion, and 339 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: uh oh. 340 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 5: I agree, especially primary care doctors in Massachusetts, that you 341 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 5: have to do some incentive to get people here because 342 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 5: there's going to be a crisis very very soon. 343 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: If they oh, we're we're there now trust me, Drew, 344 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 2: we are definitely there now. And uh well, thank you 345 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 2: thank you so much for for for what you do. 346 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: I hold doctors and nurses in high esteem as as 347 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: you probably know if you're listening to this program. Thank 348 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 2: you so much. 349 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 5: Thank you Dan, my pleasure doctor. 350 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 2: Thank you. That's a great call. Started off. We got 351 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: one line at six one seven, two, five four ten 352 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 2: thirty and one line at six one seven, nine three 353 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 2: one ten thirty. What do you think about birthright tourism 354 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 2: and how do we address it? I don't think the 355 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: Supreme Court. I think the Supreme Court is going to 356 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: be bound by what what lawyers call starry decisives and 357 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: uh and and basically opinions that they're bound by unless 358 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 2: they come up with some way to work around it. 359 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,959 Speaker 2: But I hope to hear from you. No one's going 360 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: to be a better call than Julie, but your perspective 361 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 2: is important to me. Six one seven, two five four 362 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. 363 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: Coming right back on night Side. You're on Night Side 364 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio. Let's go 365 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: to Edin Marshfield Ed you are next on Nightside welcome. 366 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 6: How are you, Dan, I'm doing well. 367 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 2: I'm doing very well. What do you think about birthright citizenship? 368 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's it's doesn't seem right. 369 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 6: It looks like the found a way to get a 370 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 6: get benefits of Constitution. But the problem I have with 371 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 6: President Trump is he does all this stuff the wrong way. 372 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 6: I think the right way would have been to go 373 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 6: to Congress and find a way to amend the Constitution. 374 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 2: And you know, well, you're right, you're right on that. 375 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: I can only I'll only tell you that amending the 376 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 2: Constitution is an incredibly difficult task. You have to get 377 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 2: three quarters of the states, which means thirty eight of 378 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 2: the fifty states, to vote overwhelmingly to to to participate 379 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: in an effort to amend the Constitution, and then you 380 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 2: have to get Congress to approve by an overwhelming margin. 381 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 2: Amending the Constitution is really difficult, and there would have 382 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: been times when you know, the right thing to do. 383 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: I don't think we ever could have amended the Constitution 384 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: on you know, on things like birth control whatever you know, 385 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 2: Griswold case or or Row versus weighed, because I think 386 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: that it's it's a high bar, it's a high bar. 387 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people in this country. If 388 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: you did a poll, I think probably eighty percent of 389 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: the people in this country would agree with you. And 390 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: it would be great if someone, if someone tried it. 391 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: But I think it's it's it's intended. It's a high bar. 392 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 2: Go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead. 393 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't know it was that that high of a. 394 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: Vote. 395 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 6: Two men. 396 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, you just can't pass it as an normal as 397 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 2: a normal piece of legislation in Congress, where you get 398 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 2: the majority of the House, majority of the sety, you 399 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 2: get a president to sign it. It's much higher way. 400 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: It's okay, higher, it's higher than that. But but that's okay, 401 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 2: that's a good thought, and I appreciate it. But but 402 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: but you you would agree that it is a problem, 403 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 2: is what I'm trying to say. You would if you were. 404 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 6: Asked becoming in a problem? I yeah, I think, you know, 405 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 6: like maybe there could be other ways to tighten it 406 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 6: up like that, that medical professional just explained her situation. 407 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 2: And that's tough. 408 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 6: That probably shouldn't be allowed to be done done like that. 409 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 6: You know, that's delivering a premature baby, you know. 410 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I thought Julie was an interest. 411 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 3: It's a tough subject to deal with. 412 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: Thanks, Ed, appreciate it. Thank you much. He want to 413 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 2: hear your voice more often on night side. Thank you 414 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 2: all very much. Let me go next to you. I'm 415 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: Bernie in New Hampshi Bernie, your thoughts on this? 416 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 3: Hey, how are we doing tonight? 417 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 2: Dan? I'm doing great, Bernie. What do you think? 418 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 3: All right? So my opinion, like you said, without getting 419 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: into any constitutional law, and they will probably you know, 420 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 3: rule on the side of the constitutional law. And I 421 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 3: think that's the letter of a law. And I think 422 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 3: what they're trying to do with this is the spirit 423 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 3: of the law and that should count for something, but 424 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 3: unfortunately it probably doesn't the court of law. And you 425 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 3: would know that better than anyone. 426 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, what I'm saying is that there's no way 427 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: that the people who wrote the Constitution in the eighteenth 428 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 2: century or the people who amended the Constitution in the 429 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: years after the Civil War could have imagined airplanes. If 430 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: you'd said. 431 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: That, absolutely, the senators in. 432 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: Eighteen sixty eight the law, right, Yeah, they said to 433 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 2: senators in eighteen sixty eight, well you know you're going 434 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: to pass this legislation, Okay, However, bear in mind that 435 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: that there's there's a thing that they're called airplanes, and 436 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: there's this there's these two brothers, the Wright brothers, who 437 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 2: fifty years from now are going to be able to 438 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: get this airplane off the ground to fly for I 439 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 2: don't know, a couple of hundred feet. But after that 440 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 2: they'll fly planes from China to the US. Yeah, safely. Yeah, no, 441 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 2: they won't crash. I mean some might crash, but you know, 442 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: I mean it's beyond their imagination. And they wrote that's 443 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 2: what they wrote, so you know, you would have had 444 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 2: to have been a prophet to have been able to 445 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: have identified that bull. 446 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: Don't they'll have to will constitutionally. Unfortunately, that's not probably 447 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: gonna vote well, because we know that what this curt. 448 00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well again, normally, when some of the progressive lawyers 449 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 2: go in front of the court, they talk about the 450 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 2: constitution is being sort of an involving paradigm and that, uh, 451 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: the conservatives are always saying, well, you got to take the 452 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 2: language at the time of the writing, uh, you know, 453 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 2: the the contextualists. Uh. And and they say and that 454 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 2: now the position has kind of been reversed, and uh, 455 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 2: I think that the court will rule against President Trump 456 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 2: and the efforts to to change, to change and to 457 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 2: rely upon that phrase and under the jurisdiction thereof. So 458 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: but we'll with you, Bernie is always. Thank you so 459 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 2: much and have a good, happy, happy in yours as well. 460 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Bernie. Okay, gonna get one more 461 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 2: in here before the break. We'll go from Bernie in 462 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 2: New Hampshire. Jim in New Hampshire. Hey, Jim, next on nightside. 463 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 4: Welcome, Hi Dan, are you I'm doing great. 464 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 2: I'm doing great. What's your thought on this? 465 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 4: Uh? Well, I tell you. The thing that bugs me 466 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 4: is and I don't understand what's the reasoning behind letting 467 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 4: diplomats who were here if they had a child, they 468 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 4: don't qualify to be citizens. Are you familiar with that? 469 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, Because if you're here and you're the ambassador 470 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: or the consul working in the the you know, the 471 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: government of Britain or Germany or Russia or whatever. They 472 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 2: are here, but they are under the jurisdiction of the 473 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 2: government that sent them here, because if if they need 474 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: to be recalled, they are functioning here as a representative 475 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 2: of a foreign, foreign country, whether it's an enemy or 476 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 2: an ally their loyalty. 477 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 4: Okay, let me let me ask you that I understand 478 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 4: what Why isn't somebody who comes here illegally under the 479 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 4: jurisdiction of country that they came from, similar to diplomats. 480 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's a great argument. I don't 481 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: know that that was expressed as strongly or as effectively 482 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 2: as it should have been yesterday. Let me see if 483 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: I have a SoundBite here. I do have some sound bites. 484 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 4: I think the lawyer he didn't even mention people. He 485 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 4: called them so journers. 486 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: Or yes, so the phrase so journals dealt with in 487 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 2: advance of the decision from the late eighteen the late 488 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds dealing is again it doesn't matter, but it's 489 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: it's called the Wong Kim arc decision. And he was 490 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: talking about people who were here often. They were here, 491 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 2: Chinese people here who were building the railroad. You know, 492 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: if you remember the phrase the Chinese railroad workers, they 493 00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: were sort of called sojourners. Okay, okay, yeah, and there's 494 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 2: some of that. 495 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 4: Men people were here temporarily, you know, similar to if 496 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 4: somebody comes on a visa. 497 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, they had no legal status while 498 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: they were here, and I'm just trying to grab a 499 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: couple of things here that might Yeah, I got one here. 500 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: This is I don't know if this is going to 501 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 2: address your point, but I think this you listen sharply, Rob, 502 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: please play cut for me. This is Justice Elena Kagan 503 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: talking with the representative of the Trump administration, Solicitor General 504 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: John Sower. He answers very quickly, and we kind of 505 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: drop you in the middle of this conversation. But this 506 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: will give you a sense of the complexity. Here cut 507 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 2: seventeen A, Rob, You're. 508 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 8: Using some pretty obscure sources to get to this. 509 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: Concept. 510 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: Well take it. 511 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 8: Straight from the framer's mouths. So, for example, Senator Trumbull said, 512 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 8: was asked what is jurisdiction, He means, so under the 513 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 8: jurisdiction he so, what does that mean? He says, it 514 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 8: means not owing allegiance to anybody else. He is the 515 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 8: principal a framer of the civil rights active eighteen sixty six. 516 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 8: Representative Bigham, who's the framer of the fourteenth Amendment, is 517 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 8: asked what does it mean in the Congressional Record at 518 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 8: page twelve ninety one. He says, within the jurisdiction of 519 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 8: the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any 520 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 8: foreign sovereignty, and we've cited many, many examples where the 521 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 8: congressional debates reflect that. Then you refer to the oration 522 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 8: of George Bancroft. That's one of probably sixteen source of 523 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 8: what there's at least thirteen counting that one in the 524 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 8: twelve treaties. As we cited pages twenty six to twenty 525 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 8: eight of our brief, there is over a dozen sources 526 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 8: that specifically address temporary sojourners in the five decades after 527 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 8: the enact of the amendment. Every single one of them says, well, 528 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 8: temporary sojourners, their children are not included. 529 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: So that was you caught that? 530 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 4: Friends, Yeah, I heard I heard that. I heard that 531 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 4: on yesterday on the television. 532 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and go ahead. 533 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 4: Saying that they're they're here. It's obviously they're here temporarily. 534 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 4: Why do they give the right to say that their 535 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 4: child is can be a citizen. They're not really there. 536 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 4: I guess I keep thinking they're under the jurisdiction of 537 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 4: the company of the country. Excuse me, they came. 538 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: From Yeah, and I don't think that. 539 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 4: That jurisdiction is in the is in the Constitution. 540 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're in. 541 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 4: The fourteenth Amendment. 542 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 2: Excuse me, Yeah, again. I think that the case that 543 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 2: they were alluding to was the case of the Chinese workers. Uh. 544 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: And I got to be honest with you, I have 545 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 2: not read that case in its entirety. So therefore I 546 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: don't want to answer the question because I might have 547 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: misinterpreted my understanding of it. I did not. I do. 548 00:33:54,280 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 2: I do believe that they were given. The children of 549 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: these folks who were working here temporarily were given. And 550 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 2: and I'd have to go back and read the decision. 551 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 2: That is what they need to overturn that case in 552 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: order to to agree with President Trump and the Again, 553 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: the starry decisives the unless that case is overturned, then 554 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 2: that is that that is the case that the Trump 555 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 2: administration needs to defeat. And it didn't sound like the 556 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 2: the justices were inclined to do that. 557 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 4: I would hope that. I know the justices said. One 558 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 4: of them said something about being dead, but it's it's 559 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 4: the constitution they I think it was. I could get 560 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 4: the guy's name. It was in the in the cons 561 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 4: stated the Constitution hasn't changed. Time have changed, but the 562 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 4: Constitution hasn't changed. 563 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was I believe it was the Chief Justice, 564 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: Chief Justice Roberts, who he said, yet times have changed. Yeah, Roberts. 565 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: Here he says this. This was again, this is Roberts 566 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 2: with sour. I can play this for you. This is 567 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 2: cut one O A rob. Please kept play. 568 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 4: I heard it the other day. I'm okay with that. 569 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm just for the audience that didn't hear it. 570 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: I'd like to just give them a sense of the 571 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 2: point is that that I'm trying to make people understand 572 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 2: that these these arguments back and forth are very quick cut. 573 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 2: One O one a Rob. Having said all that, you 574 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 2: do agree that that has no impact on the legal 575 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 2: analysis before us. 576 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 8: I think it's I quote with Justice Clia said in 577 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 8: his Homdan des sat where they had where like their 578 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 8: interpretation has these implications that could not possibly have been 579 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 8: approved by the nineteenth century framers of this amendment. I 580 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 8: think that shows that they made him Their interpretation has 581 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 8: made a mess of the provision. 582 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 5: Well, it certainly wasn't a problem in the nineteenth century. 583 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 8: No, But of course we're in a new world now, 584 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 8: is Justice Leader pointed out to where eight billion people 585 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 8: are one plane ride away from having a child. 586 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: He's a US citizen. Well, it's a new world. It's 587 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 2: the same constitution. It is. 588 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 8: And as Justice Clia said, I think in the case 589 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 8: that Justice Leader was referring to, you've got a cons 590 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 8: social provision that addresses certain evils, and it should be 591 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 8: extended to reasonly comparable evils. He said that about Stashory interpretation. 592 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 8: I think the same principle applies here, and I think we. 593 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 2: Quote that in our brief. So anyway, thank you for 594 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 2: noting that, because I wanted to play that sound bite 595 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 2: that tells me where Roberts is going to rule. And 596 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 2: once you know where Roberts is going to rule, I 597 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 2: think you know where the case is going to go. 598 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 4: I know it's too bad, I guess, I guess, and 599 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 4: the justices I don't know why they can't. It seems 600 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 4: so clear in my mind. Look, these people come in 601 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 4: here illegal. You talked earlier about the Chinese people going 602 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 4: the New Islands and having the They have to see 603 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 4: that that's not going to be good for the country 604 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 4: in the laws. 605 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 2: Well, we'll see how the decision comes out. Jim, Thank 606 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 2: you a great call. Thank you. 607 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 4: Probably Congress probably Congress should get on the ball and 608 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 4: amend the constitution. 609 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: Well, they don't have the ability to amend the constitution. 610 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 2: The constitutions has is amended at the states, and it's 611 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 2: a high bar. You have to have three quarters of 612 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: the states vote overwhelmingly and the legislatures has to be 613 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 2: approved by the governors three quarters of the states and 614 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: then it and then it goes to to the to Congress. Tough, 615 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 2: it's you know there there there were a few amendments, 616 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 2: but not many, and there was the one the Era, 617 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 2: the Equal Rights Amendment that ran out of time. There's 618 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,240 Speaker 2: sort of a time constraint that that once you the 619 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: the the process starts, it has to be completed within 620 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 2: seven years. I think there were like thirty six states 621 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 2: that had gone along with the era. It didn't get 622 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,959 Speaker 2: to thirty eight and the time ran out. So it's 623 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 2: intended as a tough uh, a high bar. Jim, thank 624 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: you so much. I appreciate your call very much. Quick break, 625 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 2: we'll be right back. I'll try to get everyone in. 626 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b 627 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: Z Boston's news radio. 628 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 2: Peter in Littleton, Peter, we are just packed off here 629 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 2: on time. I got about a minute for you. I'm 630 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 2: so sorry where there's a bunch of callers, we're not 631 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 2: even going to get to. 632 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 7: Go right ahead, Good evening, Dan. I think the issue 633 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 7: is that one thing that people are avoiding, not considering 634 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 7: is in seventeen eighty seven, when the Founders created the Constitution, 635 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 7: they did a one sentence statement at the beginning called 636 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 7: the Preamble, which states, I can agree with to you, 637 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 7: it's only takes a second. 638 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 2: Yep. 639 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 7: Good, We the people in the United States, in order 640 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,720 Speaker 7: to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensured domestic tranquility, 641 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 7: provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and 642 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 7: this is the kicker, and secure the blessings of to 643 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 7: ourselves and our posterity. Do ordain and establish the Constitution 644 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 7: of the United States of America. And if you fast 645 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,720 Speaker 7: forward then to the fourteenth Amendment, which is in eighteen 646 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 7: sixty eight, it was at the end of the Civil War. 647 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 7: There were slaves, freed slaves in the country who had 648 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:20,760 Speaker 7: been here. 649 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 2: Peter. I hate to do this here, Peter. 650 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 7: And Peter is to go for centuries Peter, Peter. 651 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 2: I hate to do this to you. I think you've 652 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 2: made your point Unfortunately, I'm flat out of time and 653 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 2: there's three callers. We're going to go back to this 654 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 2: tomorrow night. Okay, I give you permission. I hope you'll 655 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 2: call back tomorrow night. Okay, we're just flat out of time. 656 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 2: To the other callers, I apologize. I'm read a great job, Rob, 657 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 2: Good night, good night to everybody. All dogs, all cats, 658 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 2: all pets go to heaven. That's why Pal Charlie Ray 659 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 2: who is who passed sixteen years going Forebruy. That's why 660 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 2: your pets are who past. They love you, you love them, 661 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 2: You will see them again. I will be on night 662 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 2: Side Facebook in just a minute or two. Thank you 663 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 2: so much for listening. Paulie. I apologized to callus. We 664 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 2: had to and we couldn't get to tonight.