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Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American idiot flooding back on

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Speaker 1: seven hundred WW Man, We've got everything going on all

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Speaker 1: at the same time. We'll begin with this story. This morning,

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Speaker 1: federal judge has allowed Ohio, the Buckeye State, to begin

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Speaker 1: transferring unclaimed funds starting first the year of finance at

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Speaker 1: new Brown Stadium and all of these millions, if not

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Speaker 1: hundreds of millions, and now we're into the billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars when it comes to unclaimed funds at Ohio. There's

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit that was threatened by Mark dan and that

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Speaker 1: has now come to fruition. It's going to challenge this

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Speaker 1: uses or. Judge denied a preliminary injunction. It said Ohio's

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Speaker 1: really don't face a reparable harm since they can still

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Speaker 1: claim their money through twenty thirty six. However, he also

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Speaker 1: rejected the state's motion to dismiss this case entirely. So

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Speaker 1: the judge said, hey, it's it's up to me to

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Speaker 1: determine if the loss constitutional. He's not here to decide

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Speaker 1: if it's a good idea or not. And he may

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Speaker 1: have a rule land in this as early as Tuesday

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Speaker 1: on whether this preliminary injunction will be granted on this

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Speaker 1: who brought the case forward along with Mark dan As

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Speaker 1: Jeff Crossman of the Dan Law Firm and Cleveland, he's

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Speaker 1: lead council. Jeff, welcome, How are you good?

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Speaker 2: How are you today?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing fine. A lot to unpack here as the

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Speaker 1: state tries to move like two billion dollars up to

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Speaker 1: two billion on claim funds into an account of finance, stadiums,

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Speaker 1: cultural projects, stuff like that six hundred million for the Browns, Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: Columbus and others are probably gonna get some but let's

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Speaker 1: start here. The judge denied your request for the injunction,

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Speaker 1: but allow the case to move forward. So what's the

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Speaker 1: strategy here for you moving forward?

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Speaker 2: Well, the case is the court noted the case does

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Speaker 2: have merit, so the case will continue and we ultimately

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Speaker 2: will hope to prevail in this case because we think

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Speaker 2: our constitutional arguments are pretty strong here. It's fundamental to

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Speaker 2: what we all understand then, what the constitution protects, which

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Speaker 2: is your private property right and gives you the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to object when the state tries to take your property,

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Speaker 2: which is not happening here because the state doesn't give

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Speaker 2: anybody notice that they're seeing people's property putting it in

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Speaker 2: a what was supposed to be a lost and found account,

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Speaker 2: but now, as it turned down, out is going to

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Speaker 2: be used as a slush fund to give out money

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Speaker 2: to various PEP projects of the legislature.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll unpack this a little bit here too.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with achievement laws. Obviously there are people who

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Speaker 1: will not claim funds despite public notices. Will get to

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Speaker 1: that element in just a second, but typically a state

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Speaker 1: and I think, oh hi, it's like ten years. Basically,

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Speaker 1: if you don't claim something in ten years, it reverts

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Speaker 1: back to the state because the agent assume you don't

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Speaker 1: care or you're dead. Is that the biggest legal hurdle

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Speaker 1: you got to jump over.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of challenges to what the state is

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Speaker 2: doing here. First, a lot of people don't know that

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Speaker 2: their property is being seized, and there's really no legitimate

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Speaker 2: or practical way to protect yourself. So every bank account

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Speaker 2: that you own, whether it's a savings account or money

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Speaker 2: market account, or a life insurance policy or even a

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Speaker 2: safe DEPOSITI bok with some personal belongings that may not

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Speaker 2: have economic value but might have personal value to you.

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Speaker 2: You can't protect yourself from the state seizing that property,

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Speaker 2: liquidating the property, and then you know, turning it over

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Speaker 2: to this slush fund. And we had a gentleman testify

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Speaker 2: the other day, a gentleman from Germany who had this

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Speaker 2: very experience happened him. His entire retirement account, which was

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Speaker 2: held at Charles Schwab, was confiscated by the State of California,

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Speaker 2: liquidated without his knowledge, and he ultimately received only a

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Speaker 2: fraction of what he was owned.

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Speaker 1: But there's a justification here for dormant money. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if it sits unclaimed for a decade, that suggests owners

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Speaker 1: have forgotten it, moved without affording their information, died without

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Speaker 1: their errors knowing about it, which is unfortunate for sure.

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Speaker 1: But do do you just suggest that this money sits

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Speaker 1: there in perpetuity.

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Speaker 2: No. I think what the High Supreme Court has been

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Speaker 2: clear about is unclaimed funds doesn't mean abandoned property. A

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Speaker 2: High Supreme Court and a unanimous decision when when does

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Speaker 2: that happen? Often? Right, in a unanimous decision not that

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Speaker 2: long ago said that the unclaim funds is not abandoned.

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Speaker 2: People simply don't know about it. And then the state

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Speaker 2: admitted on the stand repeatedly, over and over again. They

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Speaker 2: do not send any notice to anybody. So they're taking

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Speaker 2: people's property and liquidating it without their knowledge. So you

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Speaker 2: can't abandon something you don't have notice, gotcha.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, we know, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: probably one of the few things they still do, Jeff

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Speaker 1: is advertisements and newspapers where there's court decisions that you

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Speaker 1: have to publicly notify people, So you put an ad

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Speaker 1: in all the newspaper in each of the eighty eight counties. That's,

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Speaker 1: you know, technologically back in the day that especially. I

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Speaker 1: know't ibody still do that or not. You could probably

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Speaker 1: tell me better. But you know, we have social media,

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Speaker 1: we have public service campaigns. I mean, isn't there a

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Speaker 1: duty on the part of the person who holds an

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Speaker 1: account or an adult to be aware of what the

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Speaker 1: law is regarding this and therefore be informed. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how far should the state go to make sure someone

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Speaker 1: is dead or incapacitated or simply doesn't care. You can

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Speaker 1: only do so much. And I guess when I look

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Speaker 1: at public notices and newspapers that seems to satisfy the courts.

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Speaker 1: Why not the sun?

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Speaker 2: Well, two things there one. The US Supreme Court has

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Speaker 2: been repeatedly in multiple cases very clear it is the

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Speaker 2: state's duty, not the individual duty. It is the state's duty.

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Speaker 2: If they want to take your property, find them. The

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Speaker 2: other real problem here is that the data is bad,

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Speaker 2: and we had plenty of people testify, even the state

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Speaker 2: testified that the data is not valid. In a lot

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Speaker 2: of cases, isn'tvalid. They don't have zip code, they don't

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Speaker 2: have correct addresses. There's people in foreign countries and other

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Speaker 2: states of the United States, Wisconsin, New York, all over

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Speaker 2: the country that publication in Tyhoga County or Hamilton County

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Speaker 2: or Franklin County doesn't reach those folks. So they have

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Speaker 2: no notice at all that your property has been seized

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Speaker 2: by the state of Ohio. The property is going to

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Speaker 2: be liquidated and handed over.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what the level of notification you think is constitutionally

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Speaker 1: required here?

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Speaker 2: Then, well, the Supreme Court has been very clear on

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Speaker 2: that too. It has to be something that's calculated to

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Speaker 2: reach that person. So if your data is bad and

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Speaker 2: you're not sending out any notice whatsoever, I can pretty

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Speaker 2: safely say that there's no notice whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you have what potentially thirty five thousand

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Speaker 1: claimants living abroad alone would never see those notices. In

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Speaker 1: this day and age where you can do your work

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Speaker 1: from anywhere around the world for that matter, that's lematic.

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Speaker 1: They'd have to change that.

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Speaker 2: And I'll say this, there are plenty of municipalities and

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Speaker 2: fire departments and all kinds of local governments across the

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Speaker 2: state of Ohio. They have money's and non claimed fund.

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Speaker 2: You can't tell me the State of Ohio doesn't know

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Speaker 2: where the city of Cleveland, City Cincinnati is physically located,

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Speaker 2: where send the checks. They can do that. They can

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Speaker 2: send them notice and tell them that the property is

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Speaker 2: about to be liquidated.

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Speaker 1: And we're not doing that right now. Just to be clear,

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Speaker 1: they do nothing except here's the website. Find it for yourself.

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Speaker 2: Correct, gotcha?

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Speaker 1: Gotcha? If you could point to other I guess precedent.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to notifying people, I mean I

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Speaker 1: get notifications all the time for them. While things like

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Speaker 1: class action lawsuits, I get a postcard that says you

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Speaker 1: want to be part of this class et cetera. Somehow

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Speaker 1: they can find me there. But the state can in

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Speaker 1: this case.

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Speaker 2: Believe me, if the state and if you owe taxes

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Speaker 2: to the State of Ohio. They would trying to. I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine why in this case where they owe you money,

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Speaker 2: they're not looking for you.

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Speaker 1: Right right? He is Jeff Crossman, he is lead counsel

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Speaker 1: in this case against the State of Ohio, the unclaimed

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Speaker 1: funds case. It's going to fund all the public Stadia

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Speaker 1: Cleveland first with three hundred million or six hundred million.

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Speaker 1: I guess I should say out of this up to

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Speaker 1: two billion dollars unclaimed funds. So if you have an

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Speaker 1: unclaimed a case, or you have unclaimed funds, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a dollar or a million dollars, you have to go

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Speaker 1: to the state website to check your uncamp claim funds

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Speaker 1: and find them for yourself, as opposed to the state

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Speaker 1: doing due diligence to try and find you. That's the

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Speaker 1: crux of the argument he's making. In the judge of

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Speaker 1: federal judges ruled that the case can move forward with

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Speaker 1: some guardrails in place. There it's I think it was you,

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Speaker 1: or it was Mark dan or I had honi you

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Speaker 1: compared it to unclaimed funds to a dog shelters website.

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Speaker 1: You know, I got I think just within the last

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Speaker 1: year I went on and got like, because of this case,

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Speaker 1: actually I think about four hundred dollars on claim funds

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Speaker 1: I founded or my name and my brother did the same.

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Speaker 1: But the website itself, I mean I didn't have a

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Speaker 1: problem navigating, but you said, this is like the website

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Speaker 1: itself is terrible, and if it's bad, then it causes

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Speaker 1: people to maybe not look for their funds.

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Speaker 2: The website is pretty rudimentary. We had a film a

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Speaker 2: tep fight the other day who handles e commerce for

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Speaker 2: BMW internationally, and you know, he's got an IT expert,

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Speaker 2: and he said, there's some fundamental flaws and the way

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Speaker 2: the database captures data, source data and spits it back

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Speaker 2: to you. One of the things we identified originally was

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Speaker 2: one of the planets in the case. His name is

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Speaker 2: pretty common. It's Todd Butler. If you put that name

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Speaker 2: into the database, it fits back a thousand and it

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Speaker 2: cuts off there. There might be ten thousand Todd Butler's

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Speaker 2: in there. You'll never know whether or not those other

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Speaker 2: ones are in there because it stops giving you results

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Speaker 2: after number one thousand. Then State admitted that the other day.

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Speaker 2: So there's just really no way to know what property

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Speaker 2: you truly have in that whole front. There's no way

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Speaker 2: to search it on.

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Speaker 1: Imagine a government website or something the government not working properly. Jeff,

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Speaker 1: I'm shocked.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're here to try to correct the process that

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Speaker 2: was the purpose of the laws. We're not anti stadium construction.

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Speaker 2: We're not anti Cleveland Browns were all sports antire in

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Speaker 2: dan law. But we do think that the government should

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Speaker 2: act constitutionally, and we do think that they should employe

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Speaker 2: some better safeguards to make sure people's rights are protected.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's important Fasta too. This is

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Speaker 1: not about going after the Cleveland Browns with the fund.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at it this way. So I think

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Speaker 1: someone made the accusation. This is about opposing public funding

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Speaker 1: for stadiums and billionaire stadiums rather than property rights. But

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Speaker 1: would you be in the same position if it were

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Speaker 1: funding schools, hospital something all those on well unclaimed funds.

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Speaker 2: The way they're doing it is unconstitutional, So you know

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Speaker 2: our position is constitutionally this doesn't make any sense if

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Speaker 2: it was a public purpose, a true public purpose like

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Speaker 2: building a school or building a fire station, for example,

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Speaker 2: that has a much more, much stronger justification than in

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Speaker 2: this case because it is money being used, it's a

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Speaker 2: taking for a non public purpose. Is there there is

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Speaker 2: a problem there too, Jeff?

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Speaker 1: Is there a way you'd be satisfied? I mean, are

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Speaker 1: you posed to using unclan funds for a public person

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Speaker 1: purposes generally or is it problematic just the stadium funding

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Speaker 1: or is there a way to you, for you and

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Speaker 1: your clients or and your planing to those who brought

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Speaker 1: the suit here for them to be satisfied.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are two constitutional issues here. One is the

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Speaker 2: purpose of its taking, which you've identified, and secondly is

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Speaker 2: the notice in the new process we need to have

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Speaker 2: an aa public purpose and be they have to improve

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Speaker 2: the new process safeguards here they don't exist right now.

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Speaker 1: Again, Jeff Crossman's here from the Dan Law firm. He's

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Speaker 1: the lead counsel in this case brought against the State

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Speaker 1: of Ohio, the unclaimed funds case that we've talked about

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Speaker 1: here that would fund stadiums across Ohio. The only problem

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Speaker 1: is it's coming out of unclaimed funds and after ten

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Speaker 1: years that money would revert back to the state. And

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Speaker 1: he's saying there's just not enough notification in place, safeguards

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Speaker 1: in place, to make sure that your whole and that

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Speaker 1: you get to get your money simply because the state

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Speaker 1: would rather you not. There's a lot of entities would

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Speaker 1: do that too. Right now, the way the lost hands,

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Speaker 1: if money left dormant for ten plus years is presumed

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Speaker 1: to abandon. I guess the question is should the state

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Speaker 1: be able to redirec act unclaimed funds? And we're talking

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Speaker 1: about what makes that constitutionally acceptable? This morning on the show,

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Speaker 1: where do you think this goes in the next Well,

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Speaker 1: now I think too, didn't I say Tuesday? I believe

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Speaker 1: it's a day a judge should make a decision. Here

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Speaker 1: you confidence is going to move forward.

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Speaker 2: The judge made a decision on the Pulmerian junction. Now

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Speaker 2: we're moving forward on the case and we're going to

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Speaker 2: decide whether we follow an appeal. And And by the way,

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Speaker 2: I should note that when the state amended the statute,

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Speaker 2: it automatically created a conflict of interest between the stat

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Speaker 2: and yourself. You know, think about say, you know your

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Speaker 2: investment account at Cheryl Schwab, if Charles Schwab now had

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Speaker 2: an incentive not to tell you how much money was

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Speaker 2: in the account or or what they were doing with

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Speaker 2: the money and that if you don't contact them in

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Speaker 2: a certain amount of time, they can just take your money.

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Speaker 2: We would all fundamentally agree that that's what we would

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Speaker 2: call indezzlement. And essentially what's going on here the state

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Speaker 2: now has a conflict of interest. They don't have any

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Speaker 2: incentive to tell you that the money is there in

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Speaker 2: the ways about protecting yourself. So, uh, it's a real problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems to be. You know, you laid out

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Speaker 1: a very very good, dynamic case as to why the

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Speaker 1: court should side with you and the plaintiffs in this

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Speaker 1: case simply because the lack of notification in the website

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Speaker 1: is terrible. My last name Sloan, not terribly uncommon, but

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Speaker 1: I could see if your last name is Smith or something.

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Speaker 1: Then if I'm not able to see and find exactly

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Speaker 1: the you know, Jeff Smith that's on there, and there's

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Speaker 1: probably thousands in the state of Ohio, that's problematic. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even if I want to find my money and that's

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Speaker 1: my common name, it's going to be difficult to do so,

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Speaker 1: and that's part of this lawsuit and rightly, so that's

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Speaker 1: exactly right, all right, So timeline here is now Judges

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Speaker 1: hearing this is probably going to move forward in this case.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the state eventually settles with this? Are

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Speaker 1: you looking for a settlement or just an outright I mean,

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Speaker 1: what what what happens to the stadium funding model if

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Speaker 1: you win?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's an open question. I mean that was That's

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Speaker 2: why we argued that it was stafer to keep the

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Speaker 2: money where it is until we litigate the merits of

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Speaker 2: the case. And I think at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: we're still optimistic that we're going to prevail here. And

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Speaker 2: if that's the case, then there's money. This half a

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Speaker 2: billion dollars or more has left the State of Ohio's coffers.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be taxpayers that have to put back

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Speaker 2: that money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeff, all the best. Thanks for jepping on this

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Speaker 1: morn now. You're extremely busy, but I appreciate taking time

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Speaker 1: out to chat here. Jeff Crossmo, the Dan Law firm,

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Speaker 1: lead counsel in this case, All the best, You have

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Speaker 1: a great dable chat. Again, Thanks again, man, I appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: I've got some time here maybe to talk about this.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if you've checked the Unclaimed fun site.

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Speaker 1: I have, and as I said, found like four hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks or something like that. I thought it was pretty

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Speaker 1: easy process myself on my name. Okay, this is me here, Boom.

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Speaker 1: But I have a common but not uncommon name. If

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Speaker 1: you have a very common name, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you found it extremely difficult to navigate this side or not.

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Speaker 1: As I said, I didn't, but your results may vary.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of torn on this, but I tend to

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Speaker 1: lean in this one towards more towards the state, and

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Speaker 1: not that I want people to lose their money, but

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Speaker 1: don't know after ten years, seems to me, with all

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Speaker 1: of the information out there, you know, check all you

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Speaker 1: gotta do is check this website. Now, it seems to

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Speaker 1: me that that is on you. Ten years, you don't

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Speaker 1: know that that money's out there. How far? How far

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Speaker 1: should the state go to try and get that money

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Speaker 1: back to you?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: I think two things here are important that the state

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Speaker 1: would have to simply notify you somehow, send you a

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Speaker 1: postcard or whatever it might be, to a reasonable attempt

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Speaker 1: to contact you. I mean, I get contacted by people

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Speaker 1: I don't want contact contacting me all the time. They

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Speaker 1: can find me, but the state can't that's problematic, and

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Speaker 1: as he said, if you have a common name, it's

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Speaker 1: difficult to navigate the website. That strike too. But I

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Speaker 1: think if the state we're to change those two elements,

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Speaker 1: that to me seems like it would satisfy the claim

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Speaker 1: that they're trying to hold on the money. And you

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Speaker 1: can see that right, there's incentive for the state to

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Speaker 1: hold your cash in an unclaimed account because now it's

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Speaker 1: going to go to fund pet projects that lawmakers will

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Speaker 1: definitely line up to try and get that quote unquote

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Speaker 1: free money, not free, but quote unquote free money in

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Speaker 1: order to well build something nice to get votes. I'm

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Speaker 1: the guy who got the new Cleveland Stadium. I'm the

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Speaker 1: one who got pay Course Stadium. I'm the one that

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Speaker 1: got GABP made whole again and remodeled. So there's tremendous

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Speaker 1: incentive for the state here. But we'll get your thoughts

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Speaker 1: into the unclaimed funds thing. And like I said, I

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Speaker 1: tend to look at and go all right, I think

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Speaker 1: you fix a website and make a concerned effort, do

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Speaker 1: your due diligence and trying to locate someone with those funds,

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Speaker 1: then that's probably the best you can do. Outside of

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Speaker 1: the public notices in the website. Your Thoughts five one, three, seven, four,

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Speaker 1: nine hundred, The Big One Talkback VI, the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 1: You can get me there if you're listening to the

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Speaker 1: stream through your phone. We'll get do that. We'll get news.

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Speaker 1: We've got weather moving in all sorts of moving parts

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Speaker 1: this morning here on the Scoutslan Show on seven hundred

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Speaker 1: well W