1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American idiot? Scott's film 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: show back on seven hundred w WELW. Ohio activists want 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: to eliminate your property build tax entirely. Sound good? Okay, well, 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: wait to hear what it could do to the sales tax. 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: Right. 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: So, rising property taxes are pricing a lot homeowners out 7 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: of their homes. We've seen increases mildly twenty eight percent, 8 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: but all the way up to one hundred and thirty 9 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: percent across southwest Ohio here, and the committee who abolished 10 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: property taxes is gathering signatures or a constitutional amendment that 11 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: they want to put on the November ballots. So what's 12 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: the good, the bad and the ugly of this? Ohio 13 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: Representative David Thomas out of Jefferson, I said, Jefferson, not Jeffersonville. 14 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: That's in the how up here Ashtra Bulah Warren, Northeast Ohio. David, 15 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. How are you? 16 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for having me on. 17 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, appreciate it. Governor de Wine warned about abolishing taxes 18 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: and we'd see the tax rate jump up to twenty 19 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: percent from the five point seventy five Now and other 20 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: people say they're full of it. So, uh, do you 21 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: agree with the math? Is the math math on this one? 22 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: And even if it's close to ACR, can you justify 23 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: that trade off? 24 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I think this shows just 25 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: how upset and frustrated people are with the property tax system. 26 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: But the math mass if you do essentially a one 27 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: for one. So right now, roughly twenty four billion dollars 28 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: is how much property taxes collect in every year, and 29 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: all of that money stays to the local level that 30 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: funds your local services. And if you were to eliminate 31 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 2: that twenty four billion, you would have to and I 32 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: would assume most people would still want their local police departments, 33 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: their fire their road services, all those different types of things, 34 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: and so you'd have to pull that revenue from somewhere else. Now, 35 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: many folks who are very strong behind abolishing you know, say, hey, 36 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: I'm perfectly fine to have a much much higher sales 37 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: tax if that means I no longer have it on 38 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: the property tax side, right, And so that that's kind 39 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: of one of the trade offs that people have to 40 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: think about. But twenty percent, you know, that is essentially yes, 41 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: that that's the number that we would likely have to 42 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: get because areas like yours down in southwest Ohio, areas 43 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: like Maya, Northeast Ohio. We have other states around us, 44 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: and so you're going to have people who leave the 45 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: states to buy things. You're going to have less activity 46 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: because things are going to be much more expensive. So 47 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: you have to have the sales tax even higher than 48 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: what you would directly need to replace that about twenty 49 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: four billion dollars. 50 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 1: That's a question. So let's say, just for giggles here, 51 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: that they're successful again on the ballot. People Okay, great, 52 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: I don't have to pay any more. Proper decks my 53 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: home are great. I don't have to pay this anymore. 54 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: They came out and said, look, it's not our responsibility 55 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: to figure out how to replace that twenty plus billion 56 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: dollars in annual revenue that falls on the General Assembly. 57 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 1: People like yourself, David Thomas. What's your answer? Where would 58 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: even be getting to look for that kind of money? 59 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you're saying the twenty percent tax wouldn't work, 60 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: but what other options are there? 61 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, they are correct, and that's kind of the I 62 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: think the committee quite often, I know the leadership personally. 63 00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: They've allowed us to do a lot of the reform 64 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 2: that we've done this past year because people now realize 65 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: just how set folks are over property taxes. But essentially 66 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: it is our responsibility. There's actually a constitutional amendment two 67 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: years ago in North Dakota that very similar abolish everything. 68 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: It failed because it put in essentially the replacement revenue, 69 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: and I think people then saw in the ballot, whoa, 70 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: this will happen if the abolished and so they said no. 71 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: But there's no way, no physical way that Ohio would 72 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: go up to a twenty percent sales tax. It'd be impossible, right, 73 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 2: And so then you have to look at essentially cutting costs. 74 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: You've got to decrease how much money you're actually going 75 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 2: to need for those services. 76 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I tend to lean more libertarian all 77 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: this stuff, but in the way I look at it 78 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: as look, it's the least bad tax in the world. 79 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: In this group and middlely, we don't like property taxes, 80 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: but we don't really want to cut services that they fund. 81 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: Despite going you know, government's bloated and fat and dozed 82 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, which I get, but when it 83 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: comes to services that you use are available, and we 84 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: don't want to do that. So it's contradictory on our 85 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: part for sure. And I think property taxes just are 86 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: generally less distortionary. You know, you can, as you mentioned 87 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: being in northeast Ohio and us here in southwest Ohio. Well, 88 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, if you don't like the prices because the 89 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: sales tax is twenty percent, you can choose to do 90 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: business in India and Kentucky. Well, the same is true 91 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: with property tax. A lot of people I work with 92 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: live in Kentucky for that reason. So you can move 93 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: to places where you're less heavily taxed with avoid the 94 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: local sales tax and income taxes. I mean, real estate 95 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: generally has to stay put. If you're a business owner, 96 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: you can choose where you live. But I guess you 97 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: know that this is the Hey, I don't want to 98 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: pay taxes, but I want someone else to pay for it. 99 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: Well who's that going to be? 100 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's a very interesting point you spart up 101 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 2: about the business side. So businesses currently pay about a 102 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: third to a half, depending on your local area and 103 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: what kind of makes up the community, they pay a 104 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: third to a half of the property tax bill. So 105 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: one of the I guess the issues of concerns that 106 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: I have is if you abolish and get rid of 107 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: all property taxation, you're also been getting rid of property 108 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: taxes on your lawmarks and on your manufacturing and your 109 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: your data centers. Bring up that fun topic, and you 110 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: know then what happens when you have to move it 111 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: over the income and sales tax. You're actually shifting that 112 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: over to the individual as opposed to have in the 113 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: business pay. So there's a lot of kind of philosophical 114 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: questions about what could happen and what's a better way 115 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: to do this, And I think it just brings up 116 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 2: the whole idea that we can't we've not done any 117 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: type of major changes on a property tax system in 118 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: fifty years. Nineteen seventy six was the last time. So 119 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: it just really shows, you know, we've been overdue. And 120 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 2: last year we've passed five strong bills plus was in 121 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: the budget to really kind of correct what happened. And 122 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: in my mind, we've essentially now said that the frustration 123 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: that voters have, which is their tax bill goes up, 124 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: they never had to say on it, and it's all 125 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: because of the value spiking. Local government is getting unvoted 126 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 2: windfalls that they just didn't really need. We've essentially stopped 127 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: that moving forward, that will not continue. So voters now 128 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: have a lot more of that control with what levees 129 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: are on the ballot, what do they actually want to 130 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: pay for in support. But you know what percentage of 131 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: levees passed last year in November, Okay, eighty seven percent. 132 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: So despite there being one hundreds of thousand centatures being 133 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: collected a lot of people angry at property taxes, voters 134 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: still approved eighty seven percent of the levees across Ohio. 135 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: And there's a disconnect there. But there's also a thing 136 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: of sense that if you're asked, hey, do you want 137 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: to support your local fire department with this levee for 138 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: a fire truck, typically you're going to say yes. But 139 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: if you're forced to pay over five hundred or one 140 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 2: thousand dollars more your tax bill and you had no 141 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: say over that, that's when you get really upset, and 142 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: rightfully so, because that shouldn't happen. So we're correcting that 143 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: moving forward. 144 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: He is Ohio represent of David Thomas, and he is 145 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: the foremost expert, the generalist when it comes to this 146 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: property tax You should I'm having them on because they're 147 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: trying to get this on the ballot. A group called 148 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: Abolish Ohio Property Taxes gathering signatures for a constitutional amendment 149 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: in November that would eliminate our property taxes. The problem 150 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: is they're like, well, we don't know how to replace it. 151 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: That's y'all's job at in Columbus. We just don't want 152 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: any more. Property taxes could be as high as twenty 153 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: percent or more the sales tax we pay in Ohio, 154 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: which would be devastating to border cities like Cincinnati, for example. 155 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: We already cut the local government fund I think back 156 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, and that FOS forced local communities to 157 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: engage these levies in the first place. So if you 158 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: push to abolished property taxes now the state with I mean, 159 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: the finish what they started, right, Aren't you just shifting 160 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: the burden rather reducing it. 161 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: That's a great question. I get asked a lot. Your 162 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: state tax dollars pre twenty thirteen per twenty ten used 163 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 2: to send a ton I think we had eight income 164 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: tax brackets. You just sent a tone down to Columbus, 165 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: and then it was Columbus decided, Okay, who's the winner, 166 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: who's the losers? And how much do local communities get. 167 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: And the philosophy from twenty ten to now has been 168 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: you should be sending a whole lot less to Columbus 169 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: and then you have more money to decide do I 170 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: want to support that fire department or the library or 171 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: whatever local levee. And it's kind of local communities then 172 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: picking what type of services they want versus that money 173 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: going on to Columbus and then hoping to come back. 174 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 2: Because you're absolutely right, we have cut the little government 175 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: fund that's the money that Columbus sends the local government 176 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: in twenty ten. Now every year since then we've actually 177 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: been increased in that percentage, and now it's not back 178 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: to where it wasn't twenty ten, but it's pretty close. Alver, 179 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: what is absolutely different than is our income tax rate. 180 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 2: You know, we're now the lowest flat income tax in 181 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: the nation at two point seventy five percent, and then 182 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: we're going to keep decreasing that. So there's there's trade 183 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: oops with that. But in my mind, less to Columbus 184 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: more in your pocket. To the side you might be 185 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: paying more because you're being asked and you want to 186 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: support the local services. I'd rather that money stay there 187 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: than they come down to the Statehouse. 188 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is the cost of that local 189 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: money not coming back as well. We have to add 190 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: more and more levees and now we're seeing property tax 191 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: values go up and like and people are now I 192 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: get it, but we we still have to fund government. 193 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: Property tax is fun like sixty five percent of local 194 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: government revenue. So school fire, police, ems. What for you 195 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: were in northeast Ohio, what do you tell your constituents 196 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: if this happens and those things will have to be reduced? 197 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean, which one do you pick? Can you do 198 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: without schools, fire police or ms? 199 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: Well, and that's a great point too, so you know, 200 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: essentially less money from Columbus to local governments. Your comment 201 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: of they've essentially moved over the levees to help make 202 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: the difference up, But that didn't actually have to be 203 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: the case. And my main kind of comments to my constituents, 204 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: especially my local governments, have been we have to change 205 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: that mindset that's always the property owner that we go to. Counties, 206 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: for example, have a sales tax option. Already we actually 207 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: see Montgomery County funding their social services not through property 208 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: taxes but through sales tax, or Washington County actually decreasing 209 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: their township property taxes and making it up in a 210 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: sales tax. That's one option at the county level. And 211 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: obviously cities and villages they should have the lowest property 212 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: taxes in the state because they have the income tax 213 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: locally and that can vary as well. And schools actually 214 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: have an income tax option also, So there's other ways 215 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 2: to fund our local governments, and we've given different options 216 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: besides just the property needs. Yeah, and you know that's 217 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 2: one thing now, but then if abolish happens, I would 218 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: envision that kind of tell folks whatever other option that 219 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: community has, city, village, township, county, they'll likely just increase 220 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 2: and move up tremendously that that tax revery. Now. 221 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: He's represent David Thomas Rep. In the Ashtabulah Warren area, 222 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: and he is a guy who is the foremost expert, 223 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: I would say in General Assembly on property tax because 224 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: we're all sweating right now. We're seeing rates go up 225 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: as high as one hundred and thirty percent here in 226 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: southwest Ohio and a lot of people just screaming stop 227 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: the pain. And there's a group out there that's trying 228 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: to get on the ballot. November just that a constitutional 229 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: amendment that would eliminate Ohio's property tax. But we got 230 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: to pay for fiery ms, school police, all that stuff 231 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: you don't get in your road. We had a rough 232 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: winner here. I know you had a rough winner too, 233 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: especially up north. We got hammer down here in Cincinnati, 234 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: and hey, you know'd be nice if we can get 235 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: some plows out there. That's a question as well. So 236 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, even and you're a Republican. Hamlet County Auditor 237 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: Jessica Miranda is a Democrat, says called I had her 238 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: on on a year or so ago talking about this, 239 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: and she said, it's tax shifting, not tax relief. That 240 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: we keep cutting its obligations to locals from the state 241 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: and it appears to help taxpayers, but it just kicks 242 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: the can down to a different area. It's not really 243 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: it's just tax shifting. It's not like, wow, I got 244 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: my taxes, go hey, this is great. Yeah, but we 245 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: still got to pay for stuff. How do you do that? 246 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: When Democrats and Republicans agree, it sounds like there's impetus 247 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: to maybe make them change. 248 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's ultimate question is what level of government 249 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: is actually the largest and what is actual tax reform. 250 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: In my mind, actual tax reform is the taxpayer paying 251 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 2: less overall, and it's the government getting less than overall. 252 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: And if we continue to essentially promp up and make 253 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: larger one area of government, which would then be for example, 254 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 2: local government, all that really does is actually hate your 255 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: tax money. It doesn't relieve you or decrease your burden. 256 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: It just actually is increasing and almost promoting larger growth. 257 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 2: A perfect example of that, I say is the school systems. 258 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 2: So you've probably heard and everyone says all of the 259 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 2: state's cutting school funding, the state's cutting school funding. We 260 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: have actually been increasing your tax dollars to public schools 261 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 2: since twenty twenty, for example, every year almost a billion 262 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: two billion dollars and so tremendous amounts more in taxpayer 263 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: dollars going to local schools. And if that theory were correct, 264 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: that essentially the statements needs to pay more to local governments, 265 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: then our school system should not need as much property 266 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: tax money. But what's actually happened over the last five years, 267 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: as the state has increased school funding tremendously, schools have received, 268 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: asked for taken even more on the property tax side, 269 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 2: and they're essentially the philosophy that more is never enough, 270 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: and so there has to be some type of limit, 271 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: some type of control over that government size of government spending, 272 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: and that's essentially trying to decrease in taxes. 273 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: And you mentioned school funding there that was ruled on 274 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: constitual health. Well, I think even before I was doing 275 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: talk Raati for goodnessake back in the nineties, and the 276 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: state still has yeah fully implemented fair school funding. So 277 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: if that disappears, that's a whole other crisis there isn't it. 278 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 2: The ninety seven decision, and that's the Darraf decision. It 279 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 2: didn't actually say that property taxes were un constitutional for schools, 280 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 2: or that it was the taxpayer who was being served unduly. 281 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: It was actually more of the student. So we were 282 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 2: back then essentially giving a whole bunch of money to 283 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: wealthy areas, wealthy school districts and helping them wealthy kids 284 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: versus your poor kids were really being left out. And 285 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: so now what we essentially do. We've had eight different 286 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: funding formulas since nineteen ninety seven, and we kind of 287 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: balance out the playing fields. So your wealthier areas, your 288 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: state tax dollars still go to those schools, but a 289 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: very smaller amount than your poorer areas. Think of in 290 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 2: my neck of the woods, East Cleveland's Youngstown City schools. 291 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: Those schools receive almost thirty thousand dollars per kid from 292 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: your state tax dollars versus your wealthier school districts, those 293 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: received tremendously less. And that's essentially what that constitutional decision 294 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: said we hadn't moved towards is trying to give an 295 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: equal opportunity for each of his kids, regardless of you know, 296 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: wealthier or poor. But using property taxes or local revenue, 297 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: I think has to be a piece of that school 298 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: funding side. When I tell folks that we spend over 299 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: thirty billion dollars on public schools, their eyes just get 300 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: wide because that that is over a third to almost 301 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: half of our state budget. 302 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: And look at the results we get. That's a separate 303 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: argument entirely. David, Oh, all right, that's insane. So I 304 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: talked to I Want Bill Sites Bill Sites when he 305 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: was in office, he was part of Mike Dwin's working group, 306 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: and they came up with I believe twenty targeted relief recommendations, 307 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: homestead exemptions, deferrals, levy reform, inflation caps. Well, why didn't 308 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: that fix the problem, or why shouldn't have to fix the problem. 309 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you put the smartest minds out there. They said, Okay, 310 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: here's the plan, and here we are. Yeah. 311 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: So I joke, I'm the most speech tooled legislator right now. 312 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: A lot of these different reforms were actually in the 313 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: state budget last year. The governor vetoed almost all of 314 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: them and then formed his working group to say, okay, 315 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: what should we do? What if these policies are good? 316 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 2: Back and bill sites. The working group actually backed up 317 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: most of those policies that were in the budget, and 318 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: then other ones too, So we passed five different bills 319 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: this past year. Those bills essentially stop them voted spikes, 320 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: they give a lot more clarity on the ballot voter control, 321 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: and they actually start decreasing tax bills starting second half 322 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: of this year. So those were essentially the biggest changes 323 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 2: we've made to the property tax system in fifty years. 324 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: We still have a ton more to do, but we 325 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: actually hit almost half of the recommendations of that study 326 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: committee just last year alone in those five different bills. 327 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: Finally, David should voter listening to this thing, But four 328 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: or against the proposal maybe getting on the belt in November. 329 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: So I don't think that this is the right thing 330 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: to do, and I think that there's a lot of validity, 331 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: and I would not begrudge anyone from voting yes because 332 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 2: of just how bad the system has gotten. I think 333 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 2: that we can do a lot of good and a 334 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: lot of changes that does not blow up the system 335 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 2: and cause us to essentially have to redo everything, because unfortunately, 336 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 2: there's about a month turnarounds from when folks vote to 337 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 2: when this happens, and you're talking about the largest change 338 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: in Ohio structure in our history happening in about one month. 339 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: I'd rather do that more planned out, more kind of 340 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 2: long term, and have those changes actually help an impact 341 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: versus what could happen in that part amount of time. 342 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: Well, we've seen this before. Bus listens with the marijuana thing, 343 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: is that people want something and the legislature doesn't do anything, 344 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: and then they come up with a grassroots effort in 345 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: the legislature steps and so why well, hold on a second, 346 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: that's kind of what's happening here. We'll find out how 347 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: it plays out again. Ohio represent David Thomas up in 348 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: Jefferson and northeast O Hiah, thanks for coming on the 349 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 1: show this morning. I really appreciate it. 350 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. 351 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: Be Will it's a Scott's Loan show. Uh yeah, it's like, 352 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: careful what you wish for, you might just get it. 353 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's America and we want everyone else to 354 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: pay for what we want. I don't want. I want something, 355 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: but you should pay for it. Welcome to the United States. 356 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: News and Seconds here seven hundred WT