1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: So one of the questions Bill Clinton was asked is 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: if he had ever lied in a deposition. He responded no. 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: He was also then asked if he had lied while 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: under oat. He said no, we know that is absolutely 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: not true because. 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 2: Of what is is? Did you did? What's the definition 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 2: that did? Let's switch gears entirely. I've had this story 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: in my pos and my pile of stuff for a 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: little over a week now. I was going to do 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 2: it last week, and then, of course, then this week 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: got blown up because of bombing in Iran. And this 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: is a great example of how even the dumbass Republicans 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: in Colorado managed to somehow always shoot themselves in the foot. 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: And it makes you wonder, are you really a Republican? 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 2: Are you truly a conservative? Or are you just so 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: consumed with power and authority and your ability to regulate 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: people's lives and businesses that your conservatism goes out the window. 18 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 2: And I'm talking about the Douglas County Commissioners. They passed 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: a County Retail Theft Reporting Ordinance on unanimously on February 20 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 2: twenty four, So just you know what, a little over 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 2: a week ago. It's effective April four, of this year. 22 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: It requires every business in unincorporated Douglas County to report 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: every shop lifting incident to law enforcement within ninety six 24 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: hours that they become aware of that incident. And then 25 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: that business Now we're only talking about unincorporated Douglas County. 26 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: We'll get to that in a second. I want to 27 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: I want you to keep that in mind. Those businesses 28 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: are also required to retain and provide evidence of the theft. 29 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: And then the ordinance additionally prohibits employers from retaliating against 30 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: an employee who reports a theft, and a bans any 31 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: corporate policy. You know, so you got some you got 32 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: a Walmart in unincorporated Douglas County. It prevents them from 33 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: having a corporate policy that discourages the reporting of a 34 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: shoplifting incident. Now, the original version includes some teeth fifty 35 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 2: dollars per twenty four hour period of non compliance, capped 36 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: at one thousand dollars per incident. Then the community, the 37 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 2: business community got into this, and they pushed back until 38 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 2: the commissioners blinked and the fines got stripped out of 39 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: the final version, leading enforcement to quote a local court. 40 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: Huh Re raises an immediate hilarious question. How does a 41 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: court enforce a mandate to report something that, by definition 42 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 2: the county doesn't know? How did it even happen? 43 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 3: Now? Think about that for now. I'll get to that 44 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: in a minute. 45 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: Now, the proponent, the people arguing for this, I'll give 46 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: them their best day in court. It's not frivolous. The 47 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: data backdrop is genuinely kind of alarming. Colorado Common Sense 48 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: Institute documented more than twenty seven thousand shoplifting incidents statewide 49 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. That was more than a twenty 50 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 2: two percent increase over the prior year. More importantly, the 51 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: Loss Prevention Research Council estimates that nearly ninety percent of 52 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: retail thefts are never reported. That's prettiest. That's kind of 53 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: a staggering dark figure. If you don't count crimes, you 54 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: can't solve crimes. If you don't identify, and if you 55 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: can't identify a pattern, you can't build a prosecu a 56 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: prosecutable case. Now, the Ordinance arch Commissioner Abe Laden, Sheriff 57 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: Darren Weakley, and da George Brockler are specifically targeting what 58 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 2: is a known and a real phenomenon, large corporate retailers, 59 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: particularly the big box chains, have adopted official or even 60 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: de facto policies of non reporting. Now, if you understand 61 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: anything about running a big business or even a small business, 62 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: that's liability management. Now some is HR driven don't put 63 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: an employee in harms way policy. Now you're gonna agree 64 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 2: or disagree with that. I'm of a mixed mind about it, 65 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: But some of it's just frankly, bottom line of counting, 66 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: it costs more to pursue petty theft than it does 67 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: to just absorb the theft. So the result is that 68 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: organize retail crime rings learn quickly which stores are gonna 69 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: let them walk out the door and nobody's gonna chase them. Well, 70 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: Douglas County apparently doesn't want to be that county, but 71 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: their so called solution to it is utterly acidine. Now, 72 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: the DA George Brockler notably increased the theft conviction rate 73 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: by almost thirty percent in the past year. So the 74 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: prosecution infrastructure exists, but the theory is sound. More reports 75 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: plus the aggressive prosecution equals what you get de terrence. 76 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 3: You hopefully, with more. 77 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: Reporting and aggressive prosecution, you'll get less shoplift, You'll get 78 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: less retail theft. But here's where it falls apart because 79 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: the unintended consequences of this are absolutely hilarious. There is 80 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: a fundamental enforcement paradox. This is to catch twenty two 81 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 2: that should have killed this dumbass law in the drafting stage. 82 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: The ordinance requires a business to report the theft. The 83 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: penalty for not reporting is what what exactly? It's a 84 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: referral to the court. But here here's where my lawyer 85 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: brain kind of frazzles. It's a constitutional and logical puzzle. 86 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 2: How does the county know that a business failed to report? 87 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: Did the tree and the forest make a sound if 88 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: nobody was there to hear it. The only way to 89 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: discover the only way for the for Douglas County to 90 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: discover non compliance is if it somehow independently learns that 91 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: a theft occurred but did not get reported. So that's 92 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: either going to require a whistleblower like an employee, or 93 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: maybe a third party witness you happen to see it 94 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: while you're in the store, or some other surveillance mechanism, 95 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 2: none of which this ordinance creates. Sheriff Weekly himself essentially 96 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: admitted this during the drafting process. He told the Denver 97 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: Is that there would have to be some incidents that 98 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: would have to take place for us to be able 99 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: to follow up on how do you translate that? We 100 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: have no idea how we're going to enforce this. Even 101 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: the original fine structure had that problem, and that's part 102 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: of why the fines were dropped. What you're left with 103 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: is a law is a law that is just, I 104 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: don't know, aspirational. And then what about just shrink. 105 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 4: Each interesting intersection in history? Ah, Michael, All the Iranians 106 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 4: are porn out in the main street praising Trump and celebrating. 107 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 4: Meanwhile Hillary and Bill are to post talk about tone death. 108 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 3: Did you notice that. 109 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 4: Hillary is wearing a blue dress. 110 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: It's stained free. I did not notice that. 111 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 5: I call bs on a dress. I'd say it was 112 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 5: probably a pantsuit. Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine Hillary wearing 113 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 5: a dress. I do have been a pantsuit blue. Yes, 114 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 5: that would be hilarious, absolutely hilarious. 115 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: So we're talking about this stupid, I mean really stupid 116 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: Douglas County ordinance about requiring businesses in un corporated Douglass County. Now, 117 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: so if you're in Parker or Castle Rock or castle 118 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: appliance doesn't apply to you. It only applies if you're 119 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: an unincorporated Douglass County. Well, why why was that? And 120 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: here's where I think it exposes that these dumbass county 121 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: commissioners have never actually run a business. Every retailer, from 122 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: Walmart to your local you know, pet food store, they 123 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: track shrinkage. Now that's an industry term for inventory loss 124 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 2: from all sources. Shoplifting, of course, but you know employee theft, 125 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: vendor fraud, administrative air damage, spoiled spoilage, and yeah, even 126 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: simple miscounting. The National Retail Federation has historically estimated that 127 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: shoplifting accounts for only about thirty five of total shrinkage. 128 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: All the rest is internal, and most retailers do not. 129 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,359 Speaker 3: In fact, I don't think they can. 130 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 2: Cleanly distinguished a stolen item from a miscounted item, or 131 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: a damaged item that was thrown away improperly, or maybe 132 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 2: a vendor that shortships something, particularly in real time. So 133 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: now you're mandating that a business report shoplifting with the 134 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: ninety six dollars. But to report a shoplifting, you have 135 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 2: to know it was shoplifting. You need either direct observation 136 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: colin camera, maybe in person, or some sort of post 137 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 2: inventory audit that definitively attributes the loss to external theft. 138 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: So if you're a large retailer, you're a Sam's Club 139 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 2: or a costco, and you're running hundreds of skaus A 140 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: skews through rolling inventory cycles, that attribution problem is huge. 141 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: Even a small business without sophisticated point of sale inventory systems, 142 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: they're flying. 143 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 3: Even blinder than the big people. 144 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: This law essentially demands businesses achieve a level of loss 145 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: attribution granularity that's probably operate racially impossible. So I always wonder, 146 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: you know who's gonna pay for this? What's the compliance costs? 147 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: This law creates a real administrative burden that these stupid 148 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 2: county commissioners apparently didn't price out. Think about a large retailer, 149 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 2: They'll need to formalize reporting protocols, train loss prevention and 150 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 2: management staff. They'll have to create documentation change that can 151 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: withstand scrutiny, and potentially they're gonna have to revise corporate 152 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: policy to comply. To comply nationwide with one unincorporated part 153 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: of Douglas County, you're gonna have the lawyers are gonna 154 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: have to interpret the ordinance and then advise on the compliance. 155 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: So for change that they're operating in both incorporated and 156 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: unincorporated areas of Douglas County or even any other jurisdictions 157 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: around the country, you're now creating a patchwork of compliance obligation. 158 00:10:54,200 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 2: Easy example, a Walmart in Castle Rock is exempt. No 159 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: one in unincorporated Douglas County is not. For someone trying 160 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: to manage loss prevention, that's an operational nightmare. That's for 161 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: the large retailers. Now'll think about a small business. They 162 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 2: sold this, and I mean literally sold. This ordinance is 163 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 2: targeting big box corporate non reporters, but it applies equally 164 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 2: to the family deli or local gift shop. And those 165 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: businesses lacked loss prevention departments. They don't have legal teams 166 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: of lawyers, they don't have a formal incident reporting infrastructure. 167 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 2: So think about this. A shop, would you say, three 168 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: employees is now legally obligated to file a report for 169 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 2: every stolen candy bar and they got to do that 170 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: within the ninety six hour turnaround, And they got to 171 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: preserve the evidence or they're gonna file or they're gonna 172 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: risk court action. The Colorado Retail Council was so worried 173 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 2: about this that they labbied hard to get rid of 174 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 2: the fines. And they represent the big players. Small businesses 175 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: they don't have that kind of lobbying muscle. Now, let's 176 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 2: think about the law enforcement, because the sheriff was behind it. 177 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: If the law works as intended and it actually increases reporting, 178 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: the Douglas County Sheriff's office is going to be buried. Remember, 179 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: the Common Sense Institute documented more than twelve thousand shoplifting 180 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 2: incidents in Douglas County over a ten year period between 181 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen and twenty twenty four. If ninety percent of 182 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: thefts currently go unreported, the actual incidence is theoretically ten 183 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: times what's being counted. That's potentially one hundred and twenty 184 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 2: thousand incidents over a decade, or twelve thousand incidents per 185 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: year that the sheriff has not been processing and now 186 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 2: is going to have to. 187 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 6: Michael I heard about a case of moreno versus circle 188 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 6: pay happened in twenty twenty two where a woman named 189 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 6: Mary Anne Marino was fired after she confronted an armed 190 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 6: robbery during her shift, and she sued saying, hey, look, 191 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 6: I have a right to defend myself even if it's 192 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 6: at work, and they fired her, so she sued them. Anyway, 193 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 6: just thought it might be interesting to add to your 194 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 6: thoughts about what Douglas County is doing. 195 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: Thanks. 196 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: I'll have to go look that case up. That did 197 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 2: not come up in my research. I'll have to find it. 198 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: So let's go back to the I want to say 199 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: unintended consequences, but considering how stupid Douglas County is, I 200 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: sometimes wonder if these weren't intended consequences. So I just 201 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 2: told you about the Common Sense Institute, and there are 202 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: numbers of shoplifting incidents. Nobody in the hearing that I 203 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: could find anything in the transcript otherwise appears to have asked, 204 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: what does the sheriff's budget look like if reporting of 205 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: shoplifting goes from ten percent, say even just thirty percent, 206 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: who's going to pay for the additional deputies with the 207 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 2: investigators or the prosecutors. The ordance doesn't say a word 208 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: about that. The county appears to have mandated a potential 209 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 2: tsunami of new work for the sheriff and for that matter, 210 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: of the DA without appropriating one single dime to handle it. 211 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 2: This is once again virtue signaling. Think about the geographic absurdity. 212 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: The ordance applies only to unincorporated Douglas County. That means 213 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: it applies to some stores and not others, based on 214 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: just a jurisdictional boundary that most shoppers don't even know 215 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: what exists. They don't know when they drive from Parker 216 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: to unincorporated Douglas County. They don't know when they drive 217 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: from Highland's Ranch, which is technically unincorporated Douglas County into say, Loandry, 218 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: they don't know unless they. 219 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: Might see assign somewhere entering Loan Tree. 220 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: These can't figure that out either, So that creates a 221 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: really kind of perverted dynamic. If the ordnance actually changes 222 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: retail behavior and makes businesses in unincorporated areas more aggressive 223 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: about apprehension and prosecution, well then the organized retail crime 224 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: groups simply shift to the incorporated areas Parker, Castle Rock, 225 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: Highlands Ranch, incorporated areas Loan Tree, where the obligation doesn't exist. 226 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: So you've potentially just exported the crime. You haven't deterred 227 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: the crime, and the ordnance applies to all shoplifting of 228 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: any value, there's no dominimous threshold. A kid pocketing a 229 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: pack of gun from King Soopers generates the same reporting 230 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 2: obligation as an organized crew walking out with two thousand 231 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: dollars in electronics or five thousand dollars in groceries, which 232 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: would be like half a basket. This is not just disproportionment, 233 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 2: it's operationally ridiculous. But what do you expect from dumbasses 234 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: elected in this state? Low value theft? If you understand 235 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: anything about this crime, it's really particularly difficult to distinguish 236 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: from innocent behavior or internal loss. Requiring reporting of every 237 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: instance with no dollar threshold is going to flood law 238 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 2: enforcement with the most marginal, hardest to prosecute cases alongside 239 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: the serious one. 240 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 3: Now, Colorado law. 241 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: Itself makes it makes a distinguishing marker petty theft under 242 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: three hundred dollars, theft from three hundred to one thousand dollars, 243 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: and so on. But this ordinance doesn't do any sort 244 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: of proportionality. And the DA says he'll prosecute all of them. 245 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: But that's a policy statement that's not committing resources, and 246 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: it's strains credibility. 247 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 3: George. 248 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 2: And then you've got the anti retaliation provision. The ordnance 249 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 2: prohibits an employer retaliation against employees who report the theft. Well, 250 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: that's really noble, isn't it. That creates really serious complications. 251 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: Well about corporate safety policies that tell employees not to 252 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: physically intervene, not to confront a suspected shoplifter, Policies that 253 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 2: exist to protect their workers from harm. What about those? 254 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 2: But once you mandate reporting, you've pushed the employees into 255 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: the role of incidental witnesses whose observations become the evidentiary 256 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: basis of a legal proceeding. Now, my guess is the 257 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 2: clerk working at Walmart hasn't been trained for that, doesn't 258 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 2: want to do it, and now could face employer or 259 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: even criminal consequences for getting it wrong. This is just absurd, 260 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: this order. This is a solution that creates nearly as 261 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: many problems as it tries to pretend to solve. The 262 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 2: political impulse behind it. I might even give that some legitimacy. 263 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 2: Douglas County doesn't want to be Denver doesn't want to 264 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 2: normalize retail theft. 265 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 3: They don't. 266 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: They don't want corporate headquarters in Manhattan deciding that Castle 267 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: Rock is an acceptable loss zone. That might be sound 268 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 2: policy decisions, but I'm telling you that's not what they 269 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 2: really thought about, and the execution is sloppy. The enforcement 270 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: mechanism is circular toothless, particularly if they strip the finds out. 271 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 2: The law demands a level of loss attribution precision that 272 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 2: I don't think even a large retailer, let alone a 273 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: small retailer, can achieve operationally. Now, if Commissioner Laden wants 274 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: to accomplish the actual goal changing corporate non reporting culture, 275 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: identifying organized retail crime rings, building prosecutable case patterns, the 276 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 2: better tools, data sharing, partnership with the retailers, not a 277 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: mandate enforced by a mechanism that nobody can explain. The 278 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 2: Sheriff's office already has. I would think relationships with major 279 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: retailers lost prevention departments, Go build them. Those don't punish 280 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: the retailers for the crimes committed against them. What Douglas 281 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: County has enacted is a press release dressed up as 282 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: an ordinance. All the political optics are wonderful. They think 283 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: the operational substance is not impressive at all. But there's 284 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: some new wrinkles to this which I find hilarious. This 285 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 2: is the biggest new development since I put that story 286 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 2: in my pus. Last week, when the revised ordinance got approved, 287 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 2: Commissioner Van Weigel told the public it was free of 288 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: fines and penalties and all that stuff. Well, that was 289 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 2: flatly wrong, and nine News caught it. The original version 290 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 2: required automatic fines of up to fifty dollars a day, 291 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 2: as I said, captured one thousand dollars. Now, the final 292 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: version simply gives the court discretion to impose those same 293 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: fines under existing state law. So a commissioner voted for 294 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: and then deliberately and publicly mischaracterized his own ordinance. The 295 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: fines didn't disappear, they just moved from the county attorney's 296 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 2: desk to a judge's desk. 297 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 3: That's not a reform. That's a relabeling. 298 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: That's marking it as something else that's going around and 299 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 2: like a dog pissing to mark your spot, Commissioner, your 300 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 2: enforcement paradox analysis is absurd. 301 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: Now. 302 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 2: The county's official press release touts several softening provisions added 303 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 2: after the public input process, including things like flexible language 304 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 2: that clarifies that the. 305 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: Ninety six hour clock starts when a. 306 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 2: Business becomes aware of the theft, not when it happens. 307 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 2: That's the distinction without a difference. The reporting requirement is 308 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: still there. So you're doing inventory, say every quarter, so 309 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: ninety days after you just you know, so at the 310 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: end of the first quarter, at the end of March, 311 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 2: you start doing your inventory and you're starting to analyze 312 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 2: your shrinkage and you notice or maybe you go back 313 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: in your review, you know, surveillance tape, so you do whatever, 314 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 2: or maybe somebody comes forward, Well, the clock still starts running. 315 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 3: Will have to comply. You have you still have to distinguish. 316 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: And now when you do your inventory management at the 317 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 2: end of the quarter or whenever you do it, you've 318 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 2: got to distinguish between shrinkings and it come from a 319 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: vendor that that uh shorted you when they drop shipped something. 320 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 2: Did some kids steal some candy bars? Did some subway 321 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: meet go spoiled and and some and one of the 322 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: workers tossed it out but didn't mark it down as spoilage. 323 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: What happened? Nobody knows. This compliance infrastructure is absolutely absurd. 324 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: Now. 325 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: John cowdre or the Independence Institute called the Ordnance and 326 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: unfunded Mandate of course, my friend John is the master 327 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 2: of the obvious dute, noting that requiring businesses to retain 328 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: and provide surveillance footage is the kind of bureaucratic nonsense 329 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 2: that you'd expect from the legislature, not that doug County commissioners. John, 330 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: let me tell you something. I know you live in Boulder. 331 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 2: You ought to be accustomed to this. Douglas County, Boulder County. Yeah, 332 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 2: pretty much, not a lot of difference anymore. Douglas County 333 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 2: commissioners are just as big a dumbasses as the Boulder 334 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: County commissioners. I know you don't live down there, but 335 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: I'll invite you down to dinner sometime and let you 336 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 2: meet them, because. 337 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 3: It's absolutely insane. 338 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: And of course, Caldre also made the enforcement paradox argument directly. 339 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 2: He asked exactly how's this all going to be enforced, 340 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: noting that we usually complain about unenforceable laws as virtue signalings, 341 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: as I did earlier, and suggested this one fits that description. 342 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: Of course it does. And then kind of worth noting too. 343 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 2: The district Attorney, George Brockler is starting to distance himself 344 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: from saying he actually supports the ordinance. His position now 345 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: is only that shoplifters will go to jail in Douglas County, 346 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: which isn't really what this ordinance is about. The DA 347 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 2: was standing at the podium in December when he puffed 348 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: out his chest and indorsed this thing, and is now 349 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: carefully not endorsing the thing that he was photographing that 350 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: he was photographed indorsing. Why does that tell you nothing 351 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 2: has emerged to fix the core problems. The law will 352 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: take effect April four. The enforcement mechanism is still circular. 353 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 2: A commissioner doesn't understand what he voted for, and the 354 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: most prominent libertarian voice in Colorado is making the same 355 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:43,239 Speaker 2: arguments that I've been making. This story has legs, and 356 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 2: it's another example of exactly how insane this whole state 357 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: has become. And if you think that Douglas County is 358 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: some bastion of you know, oh over here, you know, 359 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 2: we're still real Republicans and we still believe in small 360 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 2: business and free enterprise. Oh no, you just want to 361 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 2: regulate everything like everybody else does. It's utterly absurd what 362 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 2: we're allowing to happen in this state. Now, one other 363 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 2: thing I want to get to House Bill twenty six 364 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: twelve twenty one. It's called the Tax Expenditure Adjustment Bill. Well, 365 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 2: that'll put you sleep on it. The Tax expenditure Adjustments. 366 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: If a Colorado business, let's say, has had a bad year, 367 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: loses money, they can carry that loss forward on their 368 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 2: taxes for up to twenty years, and they can offset 369 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: up to eighty percent of their taxable income in any 370 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: given future year. That's how the federal system works. And 371 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 2: in Colorado, generally speaking, we've been mirroring what the Feds allow. 372 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 2: This bill cuts that carry forward window from twenty years 373 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,880 Speaker 2: down to ten years for losses incurred after January one 374 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: of next year, and then continue to reduce the amount 375 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: of income they can be offset from eighty percent down 376 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: to seventy percent. Now why does that matter matter? Think 377 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 2: about a small manufacturer and let's say in Colorado, Springs 378 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: takes a serious hit this year, maybe has some equipment failure, 379 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 2: the supply chain disaster, whatever it does, you name it. 380 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 2: Under current law, they had two decades to recoup that 381 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: loss through tax relief. Under this bill, they've got a 382 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: decade and they can shelter less income while they're doing it. 383 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: So for a capital intensitive business, energy, manufacturing, construction, real 384 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: estate development. 385 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 3: That is significant. 386 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 2: That is a significant structural disadvantage that Colorado's now going 387 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: to impose that most other states do not. So if 388 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: you're looking at relocating your business or starting a business 389 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 2: and everybody you know carried Polis and everybody at the 390 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: polop Buill keeps telling you how we're a business friendly state. No, 391 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 2: this creates an actual structural disadvantage that Colorado imposes that 392 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: almost every other state does not. Now, there is the 393 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: executive compensation clawback section in this bill too. This one 394 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: targets corporations specifically, and it's the direct swipe of the 395 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 2: federal tax codes treatment of executive pay. Now, under federal 396 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 2: law IRS Code one sixty two M that allows publicly 397 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: traded companies to deduct executive compensation, but within limits, and 398 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 2: those rules have changed over years, and in their current 399 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 2: federal law, certain executive pay deductions are allowed on the 400 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 2: federal return. Now, starting in January of next year, Colorado 401 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: corporations must add back to their state taxable income any 402 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: amount they deducted on their federal return for executive compensation 403 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: under that section. Let me translate that for you, whatever 404 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 2: deduction your company took federally for executive pay, Colorado is 405 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,479 Speaker 2: now going to start pretending you never took it and 406 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: tax that money anyway. The bill's legislative declaration even acknowledges 407 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: the absurdity of this, somewhat, noting that a taxpayer can 408 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 2: claim the executive compensation income tax deduction regardless of whether 409 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 2: the executives earning that compensation reside or work in Colorado. 410 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 2: So their solution to that problem don't let anybody deducted 411 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 2: in Colorado. That's not fixing a loophole. That's burning down 412 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 2: the barn to kill the mice. And then the alternative 413 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: minimum minimum tax credit elimination. You don't think Tabor's under attack. 414 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: This bill is nothing but an attack on Tabor. And 415 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: of course the usual suspects, the progressive wing, which I 416 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: guess just the Democrats in general are the sponsors of 417 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 2: this bill. Three females, three to reps, and two state senators. 418 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 2: The alternative minimum tax credit elimination is more targeted. It 419 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: affects oh wealthy or in individual taxpayers. The alternative minimum 420 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: tax credit in Colorado which allowed individual estates trusts a 421 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 2: credit equal to twelve percent of the federal alternaty minimum 422 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 2: tax credit is cut off for tax years beginning hon 423 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 2: or after January one, twenty twenty six. So the legislative 424 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 2: declaration explicitly frames this as targeting the wealthiest Colorado taxpayers 425 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 2: who benefited from recent federal tax changes. Now it's the 426 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: smallest of the three revenue raisers, but philosophically it's hugely significant. 427 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 2: It's Colorado deciding to decouple from federal tax relief specifically 428 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: because in their minds, Washington gave too much money back 429 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 2: to high earners. I guess high earners in Colorado aren't 430 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: paying their fair share. They need to pay more. So 431 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: if you're thinking about, oh, maybe you're a palingteer and 432 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: your executive compensation, well we'll go to Florida. They don't 433 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: do this, then you got the political cover because they 434 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 2: don't want you to focus on these parts of the bill. 435 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: So there's a child tax credit in section three of 436 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: this bill. But here's the slide of hand. That bill 437 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: simultaneously creates a new refundable child tax credit, and it 438 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 2: is it's targeted at lower middle income families that got 439 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 2: rug rats. But the credit amount is set annually by 440 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: the Legislative Council's staff, so that the total credits paid 441 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 2: out equal the revenue raised from the three business taxpayer 442 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: provisions that are in the other parts. 443 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 3: Of the bill. 444 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 2: This is the architecture that lets these sponsors claim that 445 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 2: this is not a tax increase. It's revenue neutral, they claim, 446 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: except money flows from businesses and upper income taxpayers out 447 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: one door and then back to low income families with 448 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: rug rats through another door. 449 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 3: And because the. 450 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: Net physical impact of the state is designed to be 451 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 2: zero or demnimous, the bill's sponsors argue it doesn't require 452 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: voter approval under Tabor. I'm going to tell you I've 453 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 2: got to at least give them credit for being weasels 454 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: enough to figure that out. 455 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 3: Now. 456 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: I think that's going to face legal scrutiny, but it's 457 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: clever enough to survive the legislative process because a bunch 458 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 2: of dummies out there won't know exactly what they're doing, 459 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: and they'll pass it. So here's what you need to 460 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: understand about who this actually hurts. The net operating loss 461 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: change doesn't just hit Fortune five hundred companies. It hits 462 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: the startup that had a rough first three years. It 463 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: hits the developer that took a bath on a project. 464 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 2: It hits the oil and gas company. Hello, Colorado, here 465 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: we go again. Let's attack the oil and gas company 466 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: that's just trying to ride out a commodity price downturn. 467 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: These are business is making long term capital allocation decisions, 468 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: and they factor state tax treatment into where they locate, 469 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: where they hire, where they invest. And then the executive 470 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 2: comp add back that one was particularly tone deaf, at 471 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: least from a business recruitment standpoint. We're already in competition 472 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: with Texas, Tennessee, Floria, the Wyoming for company relocations and headquarters. 473 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: Every chief financial officer doing a state TAXI analysis for 474 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,959 Speaker 2: a potential move to Colorado now has to add that 475 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 2: to the liability column. So the sponsor's argument, which is 476 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: veried way deep into the legislative declaration, is the recent 477 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 2: federal tax law changes. Almost certainly the tax cuts and 478 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: the jobs tax adjustments that come back into play, those 479 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: reduced Colorad's tax revenue and go to the family affordability 480 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 2: tax crivit. So what's their fix squeeze businesses to replace 481 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 2: the revenue that the federal government, without Colorad's permission, believe 482 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 2: took away that framing, I'd be pretty revealing, because Colorado 483 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 2: Democrats are essentially saying Washington gave corporations too much, so 484 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: Colorado we're going to take it back, and the voters 485 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: who might have an opinion about that trade off via 486 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 2: Tabor aren't going to get us say, and they're doing 487 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: that precisely by design. 488 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 3: Now. 489 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 2: I think it will face legal obstacles, and I think 490 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 2: there's a good chance that it will be ruled unconstitutional 491 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 2: under Tabor, but that's going to have to go through 492 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 2: a legal fight. The bill is currently sitting in House financed. 493 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: There's a hearing schedule for March nine, six days a week. 494 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 2: It's early in the process and with the dynamics out 495 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 2: that Colorado Pollup Bureau, do not assume it dies in committee. 496 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: This is unquestionably a tax increase on Colorado businesses, and 497 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: it masquerades its tax. 498 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 3: Reform, the child tax credit. 499 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 2: It's real and families will benefit, but the money has 500 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 2: to come from somewhere, and so what are they going 501 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 2: to do. They decided it comes from the business of 502 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 2: the employers that are already asking hard questions about whether 503 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 2: Colorado's worth the regulatory and the tax burden and those 504 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 2: same businesses and employers. They're the ones that create the jobs. 505 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 2: And what these y'all who's are doing at the Paula Bureau, 506 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: they're killing the job making machine. The answer they keep 507 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 2: getting isn't helping Those people that are studying whether or 508 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 2: not to come here. Will see this kind of stuff 509 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 2: on the legislative calendar and they will they'll put it 510 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: in the liability call them and they'll say to themselves, 511 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: maybe we got a look at Texas or Tennessee or Florida. 512 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: What was that company with the funny name Palanteer? Where 513 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: did it go and why did it go because of 514 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 2: the Democrats who are so happy about getting it, maybe 515 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: getting a convention