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Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?

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Speaker 2: Idio Scott's longshow back on seven hundred WLW fun fat.

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Speaker 1: Here's a fun fact to start your busy day.

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Speaker 2: The amount of money that we spend in healthcare in

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Speaker 2: the United States has tripled since two thousand, So in

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Speaker 2: less than a quarter century, less than twenty five years,

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Speaker 2: the amount of money we spend on healthcare has tripled.

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Speaker 2: So one point four trillion to five trillion, pretty close

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Speaker 2: to triple, right. More than third of Ohio and struggled

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Speaker 2: play her medical bills last month, the city of Cincinnati,

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Speaker 2: and this is kind of like a side eye to

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Speaker 2: Aftab who's running for mayor, So yeah, that's probably why.

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Speaker 2: But gave a million and a half to nonprofit that

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Speaker 2: buy his medical debt from hospitals. That wiped out some

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Speaker 2: two hundred twenty million dollars in debt for about twelve

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Speaker 2: thousand Cincinnati. So next up those state wide is Ohio's

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Speaker 2: Medical Debt Fairness Act.

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Speaker 1: What is that?

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Speaker 2: Well, Ohio Representative Michelle Grimm out of Toledo, out of

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Speaker 2: the Glass Cities here, she is a sponsor of House

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Speaker 2: Bill two fifty seven.

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Speaker 1: Michelle, how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm great, how are you Scott.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing fine. All is well in the glass sit I.

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Speaker 3: Presume, yeah, all as well?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 2: I had I think Gary Jeff Walker, one of our

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Speaker 2: guys at work here, was driving through Toledo, was thinking

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Speaker 2: to me, said I stopped and had a Pacos honky dog.

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Speaker 2: And let me tell you something, if you're passing through

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Speaker 2: child to stop at Tony Paco's and get some chili,

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Speaker 2: get a honky dog. Much different than Cincinnati style, but

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Speaker 2: pleasing none theless, all right, so medical debt has I

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Speaker 2: think it's the still the leading source and has been

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Speaker 2: for a while leading source on paid bills and credit

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Speaker 2: reports for a long time now. In medical debt's like

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Speaker 2: sixty percent of consumer debt on credit reports, which is incredible.

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Speaker 2: So that those that's the rail that we're facing here.

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Speaker 2: So what does House Bill two fifty seven do? What's

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Speaker 2: your proposal to do?

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Speaker 3: Sure? So House Still two fifty seven would do three

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Speaker 3: key things. It would prohibit hospitals debt collectors from reporting

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Speaker 3: on credit reports, it would ban wage gurnishment, and it

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Speaker 3: would tap interest of medical debt ode to three percent,

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Speaker 3: because right now we have a statutory eight percent interest,

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Speaker 3: so that would cap that at three percent.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So let's start with a three percent medical to

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Speaker 2: The interest that you would pay right now on any

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Speaker 2: medical bill is certainly higher than three percent, and that

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Speaker 2: keeps up with inflation, presumably tied to maybe tied to

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Speaker 2: inflation here, but typically how much of that debt?

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Speaker 1: Are we talking? How much should people just paying interest

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Speaker 1: on medical debt? Now?

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Speaker 3: So I, you know, I think it's hard to gauge,

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Speaker 3: but I would say that the average person has about

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Speaker 3: the average person has medical debt has about twelve hundred dollars,

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Speaker 3: and while we don't report under five hundred dollars and

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Speaker 3: credit reports right now, that's taking away about the majority

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Speaker 3: of people who have medical debt and not giving them

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Speaker 3: a chance to repair their credit or purchase a home

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Speaker 3: or even get a job, because credit reports are they

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Speaker 3: continder people getting a job or getting an apartment, or

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Speaker 3: getting a mortgage. So so that that leads a lot

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Speaker 3: of people out.

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Speaker 2: Well getting getting insurance for that met like car insurance

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Speaker 2: for example.

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Speaker 1: Everybody pulls your credit report.

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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, for sure, And so our bill would prohibit

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Speaker 3: any type of credit reporting and medical.

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Speaker 2: Debt all right, So on that one of the one

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Speaker 2: of the complaints you hear from the debt collection industry,

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Speaker 2: which I can't imagine a lot of people siding with

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Speaker 2: the debt collection industry, but it says, hey, listen, you're

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Speaker 2: essentially encouraging people to be dead beats.

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Speaker 1: Basically, what they're saying is that.

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Speaker 2: If you take the conscious consequences away from people for

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Speaker 2: non payment, that's going to lead the higher healthcare costs

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Speaker 2: for everyone because people look at it going, well, I

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Speaker 2: don't have to pay it. The government's going to and

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Speaker 2: you know there's a moral hazard there obviously too, And

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Speaker 2: that's that's a problem with universal healthcare is you know,

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Speaker 2: well people just simply go to the emergency. If I

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Speaker 2: don't have to pay for it, I'll overuse it. That's

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Speaker 2: a theory.

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Speaker 3: So you would still have to pay your bills, of course,

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Speaker 3: because it would just not be on your credit report.

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Speaker 3: But I would also argue that there's been studies that

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Speaker 3: said medical debt is a poor indicator of paying other

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Speaker 3: types of credit. So if you had credit cards or

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Speaker 3: paying your mortgage, or paying your light bill, your electric bill,

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Speaker 3: but if you have medical debt, that's a poor indicator

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Speaker 3: whether you're going to pay other debts back. And people

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Speaker 3: do you want to pay off their medical bills. Medical

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Speaker 3: bills can be medical debt can be embarrassing, but it's

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Speaker 3: not their fault. It's really a fault of a broken system.

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Speaker 3: It's not a debt of luxury, is a debt of necessity.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I would a viewback is that people

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Speaker 3: people do want to pay their bills back, and putting

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Speaker 3: these creditory practices in place hinders a lot of people

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Speaker 3: from doing that.

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Speaker 2: In that regard, Michelle Grim, is there a means test

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Speaker 2: or income requirement? I mean, you know, it sounds all

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Speaker 2: well and good that people do want to pay their

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Speaker 2: debts off generally speaking, but how do we separate people

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Speaker 2: who generally can't afford to pay versus those who simply

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Speaker 2: say I'm not going to pay or choose not to pay.

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Speaker 3: So I think that there when you look at the studies,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot of people who cannot afford to pay,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people do want to pay their bills,

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Speaker 3: but they simply can't afford it. They're they're choosing between

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Speaker 3: putting food on the table, or paying their their electric bill,

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Speaker 3: or paying their mortgage, or paying their medical debt off.

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Speaker 3: So it's it is a lot of people who don't

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Speaker 3: have any savings or anything like that. A lot of

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Speaker 3: people don't have a thousand dollars for emergency and that's

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Speaker 3: why we're putting people in a bind with medical debt.

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Speaker 3: But we want to help people with House book fifty seven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is Michelle Grim she's out of Toledo. House

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Speaker 2: Bill two fifty seven. She's go sponsoring this one to

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Speaker 2: help people with medical debt because one in three Ohioans

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Speaker 2: carry some sort of medical debts and number one cause

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Speaker 2: of bankrow. I think we're the top two costs of

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Speaker 2: bankruptcy in the United States, but one drives the other.

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Speaker 2: Joblessness would be number one, and health insurance bankruptcy is

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Speaker 2: another one, and I think those two go hand in

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Speaker 2: hand because for a lot of people, their jobs and

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Speaker 2: healthcare a tied together, which is part of the problem.

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Speaker 2: This would limit medical interest to what you say, three

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Speaker 2: percent a year. You can't guard someone's wages for medical

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Speaker 2: debt collection, and hospitals and providers can't report medical debt

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Speaker 2: to credit agencies right now, and I think in the

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Speaker 2: last few years were reformed.

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Speaker 1: It used to be.

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Speaker 2: I believe Michelle, unpaid medical bills were kicked over to

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Speaker 2: credit reporting agencies after like sixty or on hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty days and now it's a full year.

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Speaker 1: Correct, correct?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I mean even the credit industry has said, hey,

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Speaker 2: you know, we've got to we've got we've got to

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Speaker 2: ease back a little bit here, mean after a full year.

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Speaker 2: Now does that mean that people aren't making any payments whatsoever?

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Speaker 2: If you pay a little bit of money, does that

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Speaker 2: keep you from being reported to credit agencies? How does

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Speaker 2: that work?

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Speaker 1: Or is that what this what two fifty seven seeks

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Speaker 1: to do.

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Speaker 3: So I think it depends. I think typically I think

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Speaker 3: if you're making payments that it would not be reported.

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Speaker 3: But I think in some instances you will see reports

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Speaker 3: that like people are making payments or maybe they fell

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Speaker 3: behind so and you know what I was talking about before,

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Speaker 3: they maybe sell behind one or two months and then

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Speaker 3: it gets reported on the credit report. So you know,

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Speaker 3: the system isn't really fair for consumers, and we want

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Speaker 3: to make it a little fair for people to get ahead,

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Speaker 3: for people to have a fighting chance. So you know,

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Speaker 3: I think that a lot of the arguments against this

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Speaker 3: too is we around wage garnishments. I do want your

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Speaker 3: listeners to look up this article from Signal, Ohio about

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Speaker 3: a rural hospital of Logan County who has who has

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Speaker 3: sued twenty seven hundred patients in the last two years. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of their a lot of the judgments

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Speaker 3: in court were wage gardishments. So people are paying up

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Speaker 3: to twenty five percent of their They're getting up to

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Speaker 3: twenty five percent of their checks garnished their payroll checks,

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Speaker 3: plus they're paying that eight percent interest.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: I think most people listening, Wow, Okay, I'm not quite

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Speaker 2: sure I want the state medical bills. At the same time, like,

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Speaker 2: how am I supposed to live if i'm that's almost

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Speaker 2: like child support? Right in child support, you had a

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Speaker 2: conscious shod have a child, and you provide for your child.

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Speaker 2: That's a different matter than Hey, I just got sick,

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Speaker 2: and maybe I got sick because it's something at work

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Speaker 2: or I fell or something along the way, and it

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Speaker 2: happens all of us at some point or another. And

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Speaker 2: now we're taking a quarter of your wages. That seems confiscate.

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Speaker 2: How can you live on the other seventy five percent?

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Speaker 3: And can I go back to what you just said?

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Speaker 3: So we're not again, we're not suggesting that the state

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Speaker 3: is paying medical bills. We're just saying we're going to

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Speaker 3: have these parameters of credit reports, wage garnership, and interest rates.

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Speaker 3: So I just wanted to kind of, yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's fair.

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 2: I was referring more to what we did in Cincinnati

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Speaker 2: not long ago when council approved a million and a

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Speaker 2: half to a nonprofit that collected money and wiped out

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Speaker 2: about two hundred twenty million debt for twelve thousand Cincinnatians

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Speaker 2: and just buying the debt from the credit companies.

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Speaker 3: So I actually did that in Toledo about it'll be

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Speaker 3: three years ago. So Toledo kind of led the way

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Speaker 3: for cities with the first one, and so we actually

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Speaker 3: eliminated debt for about one hundred and twelve thousand people

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Speaker 3: around the region, including forty three thousand Lucas County residents.

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Speaker 3: And that no profit is undo medical debt. They do

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Speaker 3: great work, so and they negotiate directly with the hospitals.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'd contemplate that one because this is outside

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Speaker 2: of your scope as a state lawmaker, Michelle Grimm. But

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Speaker 2: the beef I have, like, for example, the government shutdown

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Speaker 2: over Obamacare and the ACA, you know, we're fighting over subsidies.

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Speaker 2: The problem it's not not healthcare. We're so we're taking

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Speaker 2: money from a group of taxpayers and transferring it to

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Speaker 2: another money of pad taxpayers without addressing the problem in

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Speaker 2: Congress for a long time. And we would need all

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Speaker 2: this stuff if we would just reform healthcare properly instead

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Speaker 2: of having Democrats and Republicans fight each other and into

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Speaker 2: this insane stuff. I mean, Obamacare, it makes it doesn't

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Speaker 2: make get affordable. Uh, it's extremely expensive, is the problem?

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Speaker 2: Affism is no where you're just here, you're subsidizing something

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Speaker 2: that's extremely expended. Let let's figure out why we're paying

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Speaker 2: you know, three times more than most double what most

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Speaker 2: countries are for less health care doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I would absolutely agree with that, and

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Speaker 3: I would I would say that a lot of people

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Speaker 3: in the healthcare space looking at the core problem, which

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Speaker 3: is our work at healthcare system which it would absolutely

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Speaker 3: agree with that. And so I know we're here not

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Speaker 3: to talk about and do. But what what what they're

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Speaker 3: able to do is they're able to purchase that pennies

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Speaker 3: on the dollar from hospital systems or second second, the

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Speaker 3: secondary market. But you know, people do uh people have

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Speaker 3: you know I've gotten I've gotten a lot of emails

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Speaker 3: and a lot of calls saying like I got a

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Speaker 3: letter from on new medical debt. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: It really did help a lot of people. But yes,

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Speaker 3: you are correct, it does not solve the broken healthcare system, right,

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Speaker 3: and you know that's what you know, that's what we

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Speaker 3: need to keep working on. And so bills like House

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Speaker 3: Bill to fifty seven, they make the rules a little

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Speaker 3: bit fairer, but we still have a lot of work

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned Logan County Small and Logan Counties right

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Speaker 2: in our listing areas in the I think around the

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Speaker 2: where the Armstrong Space, you know, WAPA Canetta up that way. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: about an hour an hour and a half hour forty

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Speaker 2: minutes from us here in Cincinnati, So Logan County pastor,

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Speaker 2: and if you're going up north to Toledo, for example,

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Speaker 2: so in that county you said that you know, they're

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Speaker 2: garnishing people's wages and like, and I kind of get

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Speaker 2: that in a sense is I don't know if they're

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Speaker 2: being confiscatory and it's you know, the evil capitalists twirling

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Speaker 2: his mustache in the corner lighting a cigar with one

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars bills. But in some sense, hospitals, and especially

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Speaker 2: rural hospitals are under struggles right now. We're having a

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Speaker 2: number of them closed as a result of the healthcare

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Speaker 2: system which is not going to serve anyone in those areas.

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Speaker 2: How do you ensure they still get fair payment while

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Speaker 2: protecting the patients from excessive debt collection practices.

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Speaker 3: So I think what's going to hurt our rule hospitals

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Speaker 3: in the long run is the cuts to Medicaid and

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Speaker 3: Medicare and also the increased costs because the aca of

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Speaker 3: the subsidies may go away. So that's going to be

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Speaker 3: really where they're going to hit get hit the hardest.

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Speaker 3: It's not gonna be because they can't put it on

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Speaker 3: our current report or they can't garnish wages. A lot

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Speaker 3: of hospitals actually don't garnish wages or soothe their patients.

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Speaker 3: This is actually a pretty aggressive practice with this one hospital,

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Speaker 3: because actually a lot of hospitals don't do that. They

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Speaker 3: you know, tend to try to work with the patient

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Speaker 3: or they or they send it to debt collection. But

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Speaker 3: not every but not every hospital does that. A couple

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Speaker 3: of the hospitals in the area in the state have

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Speaker 3: said that this doesn't this build has two fifty seven

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Speaker 3: doesn't really affect us. It doesn't affect our operations. So

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Speaker 3: but so yeah, that's what I would say, is.

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Speaker 2: That maybe it's just maybe more like the rural I mean,

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Speaker 2: because you look at rural areas that are losing population

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Speaker 2: and they've got one hospital or clinic and now you've

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Speaker 2: got fewer people in there. So I get the model.

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Speaker 2: Whereas in Cincinnati and Dayton, Toledo, in bigger cities, you

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Speaker 2: can absorb those costs, but better you have more people

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Speaker 2: to draw.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but again, I think that what's coming down the

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Speaker 3: pipeline here is our cuts to Medicaid and our cuts

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Speaker 3: to Medicare and the AC subsidies going away is really

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Speaker 3: going to hurt our rural hospital systems. Not prohibiting putting

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Speaker 3: medical debta credible.

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Speaker 2: It's a hospital two fifty seven, and medical debt is

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Speaker 2: a crisis in America, has been for a long time

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Speaker 2: of about sixty percent of our consumer debt. This would

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Speaker 2: limit the interest on that to three percent, a heared

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Speaker 2: capit of three percent interest, ban wage garnishment for medical

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Speaker 2: debt collections, and stop hospitals and providers and debt collectors

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Speaker 2: from reporting that debt to credit agencies provided you're paying something.

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Speaker 2: I mean, isn't it safe to say In the end,

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Speaker 2: most hospitals gey, hey, listen, I owe all this money

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Speaker 2: and here's what I make. We've got to work on

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Speaker 2: a payment plan, whether it's you know, twenty bucks a

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Speaker 2: month or something like that, which you'll never touch it,

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Speaker 2: but at least I'm giving you something. Does that satisfy

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Speaker 2: most hospitals if put the effort.

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Speaker 3: In so, you know, I think I can't speak for

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Speaker 3: the hospital systems, but certainly a lot of the hospital

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Speaker 3: systems do you work out payment plans. They also offer

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Speaker 3: charity care options. People can ask for charity care options,

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Speaker 3: and I would really encourage folks to do that. Just

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Speaker 3: kind of look at all of your options. So if

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Speaker 3: you do have medical debt or bills you can't pay,

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Speaker 3: ask questions. So this is kind of my call to

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Speaker 3: action for everybody. Ask questions. Ask you know, hey, why

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Speaker 3: was I charged this? Or can I set up a

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Speaker 3: paynut plan? Or hey, I can't afford this right now?

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Speaker 3: So I would say keep you know, negotiate with the

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Speaker 3: hospital or the deck collection agency, and just make sure

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Speaker 3: that you're uh negotiating that way because you you do

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Speaker 3: have negotiating power and you can work on uh making

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Speaker 3: sure that you you do you do keep up with

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Speaker 3: your bills and you don't fall behind and it does

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Speaker 3: go on your credit report until you know, until just pass.

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Speaker 3: So so so yeah, I would say, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: just work, you know, talk, talk to the hospitals, look

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Speaker 3: at your medical bills, ask questions, and you know the

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Speaker 3: hospitals should be happy to work with you.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: Uh, Michelle, you have biopartian sport for those a bipartsionation.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, absolutely. It touches every So my my joint

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Speaker 3: sponsor is Representative Jean Schmidt. So, uh, you know it

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Speaker 3: touches everybody's district, everybody's district. Yeah, so you know it's

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Speaker 3: not just rural districts or urban districts or suburban district

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Speaker 3: is everybody's district and everybody everybody knows someone who has

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Speaker 3: had medical debt or has medical debt currently. And you know, again,

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Speaker 3: you want to make sure that the playing field is

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Speaker 3: a little fair for people, and we want to make

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Speaker 3: sure people get ahead and not keep them down. And

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Speaker 3: I think the House will two fifty seven. Uh. While

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Speaker 3: it doesn't fix everything, it makes us a little bit

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Speaker 3: closer to uh a fair system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Jeene Schmid in the sixty second district, so you know,

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Speaker 2: fairly rural area is there too, Claremont County, So it

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Speaker 2: has urban and rural support.

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Speaker 1: And it's bipartisan, which I like a lot.

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Speaker 2: And it also helps people and it doesn't seem to

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Speaker 2: unfairly incentivize someone not to pay their bills, which which

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Speaker 2: I like. She is Michelle Grimm, Democrat at Toledo House

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Speaker 2: Bill fifty spence two fifty seven, along with Genie Schmidt

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Speaker 2: here in Claremont County, and I wish all the best.

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Speaker 2: Thanks again for coming on the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Scott be Well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we can talk more about this too. And I

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Speaker 2: know there's people that just dig their heels and go,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, it's more it's more welfare for Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The problem is this. You know we have now double

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Speaker 2: we spend a triple rather the amount of money we

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Speaker 2: spend on healthcare. From two thousand to today, the number

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Speaker 2: has tripled. And you know when you have sixty percent

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Speaker 2: of consumer debt on credit reports, it is because of

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Speaker 2: medical issues medical bills that people can't pay, and a

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Speaker 2: declining number of businesses are offering health insurance that is

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Speaker 2: a catastrophe. Maybe you're feeling that yourself and your family,

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Speaker 2: your thoughts five one, three, seven, four nine, seven thousand

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Speaker 2: and eight on the Big One talk Back iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 2: We will get your calls in and got more just

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Speaker 2: ahead here on the Scott Slan Show, right after the news,

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Speaker 2: I'm seven hundred double B