Speaker 1: This is America's truck and Network with Kevin Gordon.
Speaker 2: Welcome aboard, Thanks for tuning in. Happy Thanksgiving. First of all,
Speaker 2: I want to give a shout out to all you
Speaker 2: truckers that are still out on the road, the first responders,
Speaker 2: hospital staff, anybody that is working through the holidays, especially Thanksgiving,
Speaker 2: so that the rest of us can enjoy and celebrate
Speaker 2: with our families. Now, as far as the trucking industry
Speaker 2: is concerned, any of people that are out on the
Speaker 2: road and you see these trucks out there, mind you,
Speaker 2: these are the people that have brought the food to
Speaker 2: the stores so that you can enjoy that on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: They are the ones.
Speaker 2: That are out there bringing the goods to the stores
Speaker 2: so that you can shop on Black Friday. Also the
Speaker 2: people that are stocking the individual warehouses and stuff so
Speaker 2: that Cyber Monday can be successful as well. So when
Speaker 2: you see these truckers out on the road, realize that
Speaker 2: they're working while you're having fun, and show them a.
Speaker 1: Little bit of courtesy along the way.
Speaker 2: Now, this is a busy time of the year round
Speaker 2: Christmas and so on, and a lot of freight is moving.
Speaker 2: A lot of people are online they're going to different
Speaker 2: websites buying things online, which is a perfect storm, if
Speaker 2: you will, for those thieves out there, people that want
Speaker 2: to steal your identity, and people that want to basically
Speaker 2: drain your bank account. Coming up in the next segment,
Speaker 2: we're going to be talking to a cyber security expert,
Speaker 2: Dave Hatter, about this very topic and as it relates
Speaker 2: to the trucking industry, the thieves are busy out there.
Speaker 2: They're always trying to separate you from your money and
Speaker 2: as well as what we're seeing as far as the
Speaker 2: trucking industry is concerned as well, American Transportation Research Institute
Speaker 2: back in October issue a report talking about the cost
Speaker 2: of cargo theft and what's going on in the trucking
Speaker 2: industry over well, and it's getting worse as we go on,
Speaker 2: because thieves are getting better, they're getting smarter, they're getting
Speaker 2: more slick, if you will, and they're getting very good
Speaker 2: at being able to figure out different ways of stealing
Speaker 2: your money and your cargo. According to and again the
Speaker 2: American Transportation Research Institute, I get this. These are some
Speaker 2: frightening numbers cargo theft costs the US trucking industry about
Speaker 2: six point six billion dollars annually or eighteen million dollars daily.
Speaker 1: Eighteen million dollars daily. That is just absolutely astounding.
Speaker 2: Study found that seventy four percent of stolen goods are
Speaker 2: never recovered, with thefts concentrated near major logistic hubs and
Speaker 2: states such as California, Texas, Illinois, and Tennessee. So those
Speaker 2: areas there are ripe for where the thieves are intending
Speaker 2: to steal as much cargo as they can. Annual theft
Speaker 2: costs let me see an average of five hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars per motor carrier and about one point
Speaker 2: eight million dollars per logistics service providers, So these are
Speaker 2: This is not jump change. This is something that really
Speaker 2: needs to be paid attention to and some security measures
Speaker 2: need to be in place. Cargo is more likely to
Speaker 2: be stolen as mentioned before, near major freight and logistics
Speaker 2: hubs in large cities where significant goods are moving on
Speaker 2: interstate corridors while law enforcement capabilities are strained. Let's see
Speaker 2: prevention strategies include protecting and monitoring facilities, trucks and trailers.
Speaker 1: I mean that is one of.
Speaker 2: The I guess probably the first line of defense, if
Speaker 2: you will, making sure that you're you know, locks on
Speaker 2: the gate, controlling the access into your facility, making sure
Speaker 2: that anybody that shows up has the proper paperwork. And
Speaker 2: we'll get into that here shortly as to what is
Speaker 2: proper paperwork and so on, but you know, putting locks
Speaker 2: on the trailers, putting making sure that they're parked and
Speaker 2: well lit places. If you know, if you're off the
Speaker 2: road and you're by a you know, getting a bite
Speaker 2: to eat or something like that, try to make sure
Speaker 2: that your truck is in visioned so that people are
Speaker 2: not out there, you know, in the dark, you know,
Speaker 2: being able to steal merchandise.
Speaker 1: It's still the low level type.
Speaker 2: Of thing that is happening out there, but then again
Speaker 2: you get in some of the sophisticated measures as well.
Speaker 2: For motor carriers, there are terminals where twenty four percent
Speaker 2: of the thefts occurred, so at the terminal level itself,
Speaker 2: stuff being pilfered from there. Logistics services providers, on the
Speaker 2: other hand, have experienced fifty one percent of the theft
Speaker 2: as customer pick up locations through strategic schemes. And speaking
Speaker 2: of which, there were a couple if there have been
Speaker 2: a couple of high profile schemes so to speak, that
Speaker 2: have been in the news recently, and one getting into
Speaker 2: how this is done and so on.
Speaker 1: One of the things.
Speaker 2: That a sophisticated cargo thieves steel Craft whiskey worth one
Speaker 2: million dollars and Guy Fieri from Food Network tequila was
Speaker 2: stolen in a double brokering scheme. So these are two
Speaker 2: very high profile stories that have been in the news.
Speaker 2: The one involved single malt. Distillers had worked more than
Speaker 2: a decade to make thieves stole Let me see, thieves
Speaker 2: who made off with twelve thousand bottles of a craft
Speaker 2: whiskey and a rare US liquor heightst this summer did
Speaker 2: more than just snag one million dollars worth of product.
Speaker 2: They also spirit away nearly half the stock of the
Speaker 2: single malt that took them a decade to gather. I'm
Speaker 2: wondering on this one if it was not something of
Speaker 2: an inside job informing people of where this was going on,
Speaker 2: and had this happen now in Guy Fieri's situation, the
Speaker 2: tequila that was stolen, Now, this is the methods that
Speaker 2: are used. First, thieves will steal a business identity, then
Speaker 2: they trick shippers into handing over entire container loads. Criminals
Speaker 2: will go out and create fake online profiles of trucking companies,
Speaker 2: bid on those jobs they suspect might be valuable, and
Speaker 2: hire unsuspecting drivers to go ahead and pick those up
Speaker 2: and then give them a location to send those two
Speaker 2: In Guy Fieri's situation, the way this particular thing worked,
Speaker 2: let's see here, two truckloads of tequila were stolen by
Speaker 2: a company owned by Guy Fieri and Sammy Hagar known
Speaker 2: as Freight Industry as double brokering.
Speaker 1: So here's what happened. The company's logistic.
Speaker 2: Partner hired a carrier that pre broker the job to
Speaker 2: another firm, which turned out to be fictitious.
Speaker 1: The imposter carrier used.
Speaker 2: Forged documents, phony emails accounts, and fake phone numbers to
Speaker 2: appear legitimate. Thieves sent video to supposed breakdown and routine
Speaker 2: delays update.
Speaker 1: To mask the frauds. So as they.
Speaker 2: Were busy moving this freight from where it was from
Speaker 2: when they picked it up from the location and were
Speaker 2: moving it to a different location in a different direction,
Speaker 2: they had to have some sort of diversion in order
Speaker 2: to delay that shipment that was supposedly going to as
Speaker 2: in this case Pennsylvania, So if they could delay that
Speaker 2: by a few days, it would give them a head
Speaker 2: start of getting this truckloads, these two truckloads to Los
Speaker 2: Angeles where it was actually dropped off. And so by
Speaker 2: delaying this with showing fake breakdowns and fake information in
Speaker 2: terms of how this traffic is being delayed, it you know,
Speaker 2: people are unsuspecting. They're thinking, okay, we've ordered this merchandise
Speaker 2: and it's supposed to arrive on a date certain But
Speaker 2: if you've ever tracked a package coming to your house,
Speaker 2: or if you've ever bought anything online, you'll see as
Speaker 2: you're doing these tracking where it will go to a
Speaker 2: particular location, it'll stay there, you know'll get there in
Speaker 2: the morning, and you think, okay, well, you know that's
Speaker 2: one hundred miles away from here. It'll be here by
Speaker 2: the afternoon or tomorrow at least. But somehow somewhere along
Speaker 2: the line in the tracking, it gets delayed and then
Speaker 2: it doesn't get to you when it's supposed to get there,
Speaker 2: So you're left waiting for this merchandise. In this instance,
Speaker 2: they kept informing them that okay, the truck broke down
Speaker 2: here this is what's going on. You know, don't worry.
Speaker 2: The truckload's going to be there. And then as it
Speaker 2: turned out, that truckload was actually never sent in that direction,
Speaker 2: it was diverted to a different direction. And again this
Speaker 2: has to do with sophistication, cloning these creating fake websites,
Speaker 2: And what we'll see coming up and talking with Dave
Speaker 2: Hatter is that how thieves are getting very clever at
Speaker 2: just changing certain things, making something look legitimate, making a
Speaker 2: website look legitimate, making phone numbers look legitimate, making emails
Speaker 2: look legitimate. Sometimes it's necessary to trust and trust, but verify,
Speaker 2: maybe making a couple of extra calls, making sure that
Speaker 2: the person picking this up is actually the person that's
Speaker 2: supposed to pick this up, and tracking this along the line.
Speaker 2: So coming up, we're gonna be talking with Dave Hatter,
Speaker 2: and if you miss any if you can't hang around
Speaker 2: for that interview, just hit up that iHeartRadio app later on,
Speaker 2: brought to you by our friends at Rush Truck Centers.
Speaker 2: I'm Kevin Gordon, America's truck and Network seven hundred Wlwantastic.
Speaker 2: I've been wanting to have Dave Hatter on this show
Speaker 2: for months we got tired of winning for his people
Speaker 2: and my people to get together, so we just decided
Speaker 2: to do ourselves. Dave Hatter is Cincinnati's top cybersecurity pro.
Speaker 2: I would say the region's top security pro. But who
Speaker 2: am I to argue. An enthusiastic tech evangelist, he has
Speaker 2: more certifications that you can shake a stick at.
Speaker 1: He's regularly featured.
Speaker 2: On Tech Friday, or as I call it, Scare the
Speaker 2: Hell out of Your Friday, which airs each week at
Speaker 2: six thirty am on our sister station fifty five KRS
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati. Dave Hatter, Welcome to America's truck and Network.
Speaker 2: Appreciate your time.
Speaker 3: Heany, Kevin, thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward
Speaker 3: to hopefully doing's good out here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Now, you know, we're going into this Black Friday and
Speaker 2: then of course Cyber Monday and a lot of the
Speaker 2: stuff that people need to do in terms of protecting
Speaker 2: themselves so they don't get scammed and all this sort
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 1: All these things are good.
Speaker 2: But one of the reasons I wanted to have you
Speaker 2: on is that there's been a lot of stuff going
Speaker 2: on in the trucking industry here recently where there's been
Speaker 2: a lot of cargo theft, and this this is aded
Speaker 2: from you know, the old school of what you just
Speaker 2: hijack a truck, or you wait for a truck to
Speaker 2: park and you, you know, unload it while they're eating
Speaker 2: or something like that. This has gotten more sophisticated to
Speaker 2: where they're actually stealing these loads through all kinds of
Speaker 2: different methods in terms of identity theft and so on.
Speaker 2: So I guess basically the same thing that would happen
Speaker 2: in terms of an individual's identity theft would apply here
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, to a large extent, that's true, Kevin. I mean
Speaker 4: it's a combination of the fact that and I'm sure
Speaker 4: all your listeners have seen many examples of these gigantic
Speaker 4: data breaches, you know, time and time again. You see
Speaker 4: where this company has had a data breach. Millions of
Speaker 4: records lost, millions of records lost. A perfect example of
Speaker 4: this would be the National Public Data Data breaks. National
Speaker 4: Public Data is a background check company. For any listener
Speaker 4: who's gone through a background check. Think of the very
Speaker 4: sensitive information you give up in a background check. Places
Speaker 4: you've lived, places you've worked, your family members, all kinds
Speaker 4: of very sensitive information. So that if someone wanted to
Speaker 4: either impersonate you using the information, they would need to
Speaker 4: convince someone else their you they have it.
Speaker 3: Or vice versa.
Speaker 4: If I'm trying to convince you that I'm a legitimate
Speaker 4: entity because I know information about you.
Speaker 3: That only that legitimate entity would know.
Speaker 4: These data breaches cut both ways, and they're a powerful
Speaker 4: tool for criminals and con artists. And I would mention
Speaker 4: so many of these cyber criminals are really just really good.
Speaker 3: Con artists that know how to use technology.
Speaker 4: But once you put all this information into the hands
Speaker 4: of the bad guys, it makes it very easy for
Speaker 4: them to then leverage technical tools like spoofing. So spoofing
Speaker 4: is basically a term. You can think of it as impersonation.
Speaker 4: I can spoof a website. I copy a website, I
Speaker 4: set it up on another server with a very slightly
Speaker 4: different domain. Maybe I replace an S with a number
Speaker 4: five or something in it. I can easily spoof an email.
Speaker 4: I can spoof a phone number, so whether it's a
Speaker 4: text message to you or a phone call to you,
Speaker 4: I can make a call or send it to text
Speaker 4: and make it appear to come from any number I want,
Speaker 4: Just like I can send an email and make it
Speaker 4: appear to come from any email address. So that's my
Speaker 4: long winded way of saying, the criminals have the information
Speaker 4: they need to set up fake websites to create the
Speaker 4: false sense of authority that they need to then, using
Speaker 4: spoofing and social engineering, convince people to do things like, hey,
Speaker 4: I'm here to pick up this shipment. Well, how did
Speaker 4: you know about the shipment? Well, I hacked your system,
Speaker 4: or I convinced one of your employees to tell me
Speaker 4: some information because I impersonated your IT person or whatever,
Speaker 4: and then they drive off with the shipment. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm not at all surprised you're seeing this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dave hat Or, I don't think people are going
Speaker 2: up to the where they pick up the load and saying, hey,
Speaker 2: I am personated this company. I'm here to steal this
Speaker 2: from you.
Speaker 4: But I mean, if I show up with the bill
Speaker 4: with all the proper paperwork, how would.
Speaker 3: You know exactly?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just teasing there, because the way you
Speaker 2: phrased it was that, yeah, I'm here to steal your
Speaker 2: merchandise and all this ors and here's the bill of lady.
Speaker 2: They're probably not saying that they're showing the bill of lady.
Speaker 2: But you're you're right, I mean, because it is so
Speaker 2: easy and you know you and I, I mean, I
Speaker 2: called you a few months ago. I got this thing
Speaker 2: on my computer that it seemed like my my bank
Speaker 2: was telling you that there's been some fraudulent charges and
Speaker 2: do this, that and the other thing, and it looked
Speaker 2: legitimate as hell. And I thought, well, maybe I'll call
Speaker 2: the company. And I couldn't get through or I don't
Speaker 2: know what I was thinking, and I thought, do I
Speaker 2: click on this or not? And I called you and
Speaker 2: I said, you know what, I'm thinking that this is
Speaker 2: probably probably not a good thing to do, and so
Speaker 2: we talked about it. You said, well, you know, reboot
Speaker 2: or do this and do that and see if if
Speaker 2: it's still there before you call your your bank. And
Speaker 2: sure enough, I mean, I who you know from listening
Speaker 2: to you over the years and what and going to
Speaker 2: back up here again when I say what I call
Speaker 2: it scare the hell out of your fridays on KRNC.
Speaker 2: Is that because you always have this in that's available
Speaker 2: how people can protect themselves. But you also give the
Speaker 2: stories about how these companies, as you said, these big
Speaker 2: data breaches where they can come in steal your identity
Speaker 2: and how easy it is for them to get into
Speaker 2: your system because you click on something that you are unsuspecting,
Speaker 2: or you answer a question you shouldn't answer, answer a
Speaker 2: phone call you shouldn't answer, or something along those lines.
Speaker 2: And you know, when I say scare the hell out
Speaker 2: of it, well, maybe people need to bed the hell
Speaker 2: scared out of them sometime on this stuff. But again,
Speaker 2: these are the kinds of things that you know, the
Speaker 2: people are getting very sophisticated with this process of faking
Speaker 2: an id facing and as we saw on some of
Speaker 2: these stories that we talked about, that they actually identify
Speaker 2: themselves or steal the identity of a legitimate trucking company
Speaker 2: or a logistics company. And so how do people protect
Speaker 2: themselves from this? Is there certain things that you should
Speaker 2: look for? Is there certain things that that are not
Speaker 2: being done?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: I think you know, a big part of it, just
Speaker 4: in general is awareness. So one of the reasons why
Speaker 4: I appreciate you giving me a chance to come talk
Speaker 4: about this.
Speaker 3: You know, you don't have to take my word for this.
Speaker 4: You can go out and find copious examples of this
Speaker 4: and reported in the media of all different kinds of
Speaker 4: you know, identity theft and these sorts of hacks and
Speaker 4: account takeovers and so forth. You can also go to
Speaker 4: sites like the FTC, FTC dot gov, FBI dot gov,
Speaker 4: the FBIS, Internet Crime Complaint Center IC three dot gov, Indigo,
Speaker 4: Charlie number three dot gov. You know, they're replete with
Speaker 4: examples of what to look out for, how to protect
Speaker 4: yourself against this stuff.
Speaker 3: But you know the first step is awareness.
Speaker 4: Awareness that just because something looks legit doesn't mean that
Speaker 4: it is. Awareness that it's easy for bad guys to
Speaker 4: spoof things, right, to create complete goppelganger websites, to go
Speaker 4: to like seven hundred wlw's website, copy the whole thing,
Speaker 4: set it up on another server and maybe change the
Speaker 4: zeros and seven hundred to the upper case letter O.
Speaker 4: Is the average person going to notice that? Probably not so.
Speaker 4: You know, once you have some awareness, then it's having.
Speaker 3: A healthy dose of skepticism.
Speaker 4: If you're suddenly asked to do something unusual, especially if
Speaker 4: it's of a financial nature, you should stop, take a
Speaker 4: breath and do what we nerds like to call go
Speaker 4: out of band to verify it. You know, if it's
Speaker 4: your bank, for example, like you mentioned the bank example before.
Speaker 3: If you get I'll tell you a quick story.
Speaker 4: And you'll see how this ties. And I'm sitting on
Speaker 4: the couch with my wife. She gets a text claiming
Speaker 4: from USAA, that's our bank, that there's fraud on our account. So,
Speaker 4: you know, she looks at it. There's a number there
Speaker 4: for her to call. She calls the number. I can
Speaker 4: guarantee that call went to like a boiler room in
Speaker 4: some third world country where they have a room full
Speaker 4: of people con artists waiting to take that call. Okay,
Speaker 4: she calls, all this fraud on your account, I'm going
Speaker 4: to need this, that and the other.
Speaker 3: And I'm listening to this, I'm like, this is a
Speaker 3: scam hanger, you know.
Speaker 4: So in a scenario like that, you know, we went,
Speaker 4: we logged into our USA account using our normal procedure,
Speaker 4: and of course there was no fraud. So it's it's
Speaker 4: being skeptical. Your bank does not need your password, Your
Speaker 4: bank does not need your bank account information. They already
Speaker 4: know all that. They can reset your password. So when
Speaker 4: you're being asked to do something unusual, when you're being
Speaker 4: pressured at something like, oh, there's fraud on your account,
Speaker 4: we need to transfer your money to a safe account,
Speaker 4: you know, anything like that ninety nine point.
Speaker 3: Repeating scam.
Speaker 4: Stop hang up, and you then go log into your
Speaker 4: bank using your app or your with the normal website
Speaker 4: that you use, get out your bank statement, get out
Speaker 4: your credit card. Call the number that's published on there.
Speaker 4: Any number can be.
Speaker 3: Spoofed, you know when you when you.
Speaker 4: Call, you're going to get a human being on that
Speaker 4: phone who is there to con you.
Speaker 3: They will tell you any lie.
Speaker 4: They may have information about you stolen from one of
Speaker 4: these data breaches to make it seem more realistic, right,
Speaker 4: so they'll know certain things that will give them a
Speaker 4: sense of legitimacy and create a feeling that, you know,
Speaker 4: they are an authority and you should do what they say.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Lookal law enforcement has reported on this sort of thing extensively.
Speaker 4: Where you get a call from like the Hamlin County
Speaker 4: Sheriff's office telling you to do X, Y or Z.
Speaker 4: They've gone to the Hamlin County Sheriff's website, They've looked
Speaker 4: up Deputy such and such as name. They'll say, i'm
Speaker 4: this person again. These are not people sitting in their
Speaker 4: mom's basement eating pizza and drinking mountain dew. You know
Speaker 4: these are criminal con artists who will steal your money
Speaker 4: if you make it easy for him. So again, it's stop,
Speaker 4: take a breath, hang up. If it's important and it's real,
Speaker 4: they'll call you back and go out of band and
Speaker 4: verify on your own any especially if it's financial.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: My guest is Dave Hatter, Dave Cincinnati's top cybersecurity pro.
Speaker 2: I would say, in the region's top side, the security
Speaker 2: pro will pick this up.
Speaker 1: Coming up.
Speaker 2: I'm Kevin Gordon, America struck in Network seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 5: Here's your trucking forecast for the Try State and the
Speaker 5: rest of the country and the Tri Sate. Over night,
Speaker 5: cloudy sky is gradually becoming partly cloudy. Be low down
Speaker 5: to twenty seven, mostly claudy early for your Thanksgiving Day,
Speaker 5: then gradually becoming sunny. A high of thirty eight sunny Friday,
Speaker 5: highs in the mid thirties, mostly claudy. Saturday, with the
Speaker 5: chants of afternoon snow a high of thirty nine, chants
Speaker 5: of early rained Sunday, otherwise cloudy a high of forty one.
Speaker 5: Nationally heavy like effects snow expected downwind to the Great
Speaker 5: Lakes region through the rest of the week and through
Speaker 5: Thanksgiving Day. Blizzard like conditions seen along the south shore
Speaker 5: of Lake Superior. Cold weather scene across the central and
Speaker 5: eastern US. Meanwhile, in the Pacific Northwest, day storm system
Speaker 5: bringing locally heavy rainfalls to the coastal ranges of western
Speaker 5: Washington State and Oregon, with locally heavy snow fall across
Speaker 5: the Cascades in Washington State and eventually moving into the
Speaker 5: Northern Rockies and Northern High Plains through Friday.
Speaker 2: I'm Kevin Gordon, America's truck in Network seven hundred WLW
Speaker 2: continue our conversation with Dave Hatter, Cincinnati's top cybersecurity pro
Speaker 2: and again, I think I keep emphasizing. I think he's
Speaker 2: actually he's probably one of the best in the country.
Speaker 2: I have not I've heard a lot of people talk
Speaker 2: about these things, Dave in the past. I've heard them
Speaker 2: on these national shows, and they don't have near the
Speaker 2: amount of knowledge that you have. So again, thank you
Speaker 2: spending time with us certainly appreciated.
Speaker 3: Well, it's my pleasure and I appreciate the compliment. Kevin.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: We have been taking and it is so we can't
Speaker 2: emphasize enough, how easy this is. I think one of
Speaker 2: the stories that you had put out, because you are
Speaker 2: putting out regular emails and stuff in terms of some
Speaker 2: of these scams that are going on. And you had
Speaker 2: a story from this new or post about a guy
Speaker 2: who had gotten one of these phone calls and he
Speaker 2: has to be switched and he started talking. It seemed
Speaker 2: like he'd talked about four or five different people and
Speaker 2: was tricked into giving them whatever information that they could drain.
Speaker 1: His bank account.
Speaker 2: And you know, the simple thing that I think you've
Speaker 2: talked about before is that the simple thing you can
Speaker 2: do is that if you get a phone call like this,
Speaker 2: go to your page, go to your account, see if
Speaker 2: there's been anything going on with that. And you've got
Speaker 2: the phone number on the back of your card, your
Speaker 2: credit card or whatever.
Speaker 1: You can check it that way as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, hang up the phone from the person and
Speaker 2: then call the bank legitimately to find out if this
Speaker 2: is a is a scam or not. And nine times
Speaker 2: out of ten, as you said, ninety nine percent of
Speaker 2: the time it is a scam. And those are very simple,
Speaker 2: easy tips that people don't follow but are extremely important.
Speaker 3: Yes they are.
Speaker 4: And again and just such a healthy dose of skepticism
Speaker 4: will make you way ahead of the pack. And these
Speaker 4: says when you understand that, And again, Kevin, do you
Speaker 4: don't have to take my word for it. Go see
Speaker 4: what the FBI says about Go see what DHS says
Speaker 4: SIS of the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency, Microsoft Google, They'll
Speaker 4: all basically tell you the same types of things you
Speaker 4: know when you look at like the top five things
Speaker 4: you can do to protect yourself. Education and awareness about
Speaker 4: what's going on out there, which, by the way, there
Speaker 4: are lots of free sites. Internet Crime Complaints Center from
Speaker 4: the FBI, IC three dot gov is a good one,
Speaker 4: as well as tips from Microsoft, Google.
Speaker 3: And plenty of people out there who will give you.
Speaker 4: Free advice on this education, awareness, skepticism. It's so easy
Speaker 4: to create something that looks legitimate.
Speaker 3: It's so trivially easy. And I get if you.
Speaker 4: Don't work in tech, if you're not familiar with how
Speaker 4: these things work, it seems probably far fetched that someone
Speaker 4: could send an email that looks like it came from you.
Speaker 4: But this is really really easy to do, or to
Speaker 4: make a phone call that comes from any numbers. So
Speaker 4: if you're aware how easy the spoofing angle is, then it's.
Speaker 3: Easy to be more skeptical. You know, one piece of.
Speaker 4: Advice I give to people all the time is if
Speaker 4: you get call from a number you don't recognize, do
Speaker 4: not answer the phone. If it's important, they'll leave a message,
Speaker 4: or they'll call you.
Speaker 3: Back right again, because it's easier, number.
Speaker 2: Dave had or we are so geared to answering our
Speaker 2: phone because generally, you know, and a lot of times
Speaker 2: what this happens is is that if you have been
Speaker 2: making a lot of phone calls like I do, to
Speaker 2: try to get up guests or something along those lines,
Speaker 2: or you're making these phone calls, and if you happen
Speaker 2: to get a phone number from that area code that
Speaker 2: you've been calling, that makes it even more difficult. But again,
Speaker 2: if you don't recognize the phone number, it's a very
Speaker 2: good idea not to answer the phone. And as you say,
Speaker 2: if they do not, if it's important, they'll leave a message.
Speaker 1: So that can't be emphasized enough.
Speaker 4: And I just want to point out again, Kevin, you know, Stephen,
Speaker 4: an area code, I could be in India or anywhere
Speaker 4: in the world and make a phone call to your
Speaker 4: phone that looks like it came from five hund three
Speaker 4: area or anywhere I.
Speaker 3: Wanted to do.
Speaker 4: If I managed to find a data breach that has
Speaker 4: information that tells me you bank with a certain bank,
Speaker 4: I can go to their website, look up that phone
Speaker 4: number off their website, and make a call or send
Speaker 4: a text to you that appears.
Speaker 3: To have come from that number.
Speaker 4: So if it's if it's well done spoofing, that makes
Speaker 4: it even more difficult, because I'm saying, don't answer a
Speaker 4: call from whenever you don't recognize, but understand, even if
Speaker 4: you recognize the number, that does not tell you that
Speaker 4: it is coming from that legitimate number. Now there's there's
Speaker 4: some steps in place to hopefully knock some of this
Speaker 4: stuff down. But you know, this spoofing problem has been
Speaker 4: a problem for a long time, and it's one of
Speaker 4: the reasons why these bad guys, who are in many
Speaker 4: cases professional con artists who are reaching you through technology,
Speaker 4: social media, email, text, voice, etc. Are successful because the
Speaker 4: average person doesn't realize how easy it is to spoof something.
Speaker 4: And now, thanks to AI, you know to create perfect
Speaker 4: English pros that doesn't have the bad grammar, bad spelling,
Speaker 4: bad punctuation, all the weird things that in the old
Speaker 4: days would be flags. And I'll take it a step further, Kevin,
Speaker 4: because this is something people really need to understand.
Speaker 3: Fake voice cloning is a real thing. It is entirely possible,
Speaker 3: and I have actually.
Speaker 4: Demonstrated it in interviews on TV where you can close
Speaker 4: someone's voice. Just recently did an interview with Steve Levine
Speaker 4: from ABC six up in Columbus where we called his
Speaker 4: phone because people sitting me, well, Kevin, I'm not a celebrity,
Speaker 4: I'm not on the radio. How would you get my
Speaker 4: voice if I call your phone? Do you have a
Speaker 4: voicemail greeting? Because if you do, I can be you
Speaker 4: in less than fifteen minutes using a free tool. And
Speaker 4: Steve and I demonstrated that we called his voice, you
Speaker 4: call his phone, got his voicemail, we recorded it, and
Speaker 4: then we fed that into a deep fake voice cloning tool.
Speaker 4: And you can watch in the interview me typing on
Speaker 4: my keyboarding, hitting the button and Steve's voice coming out
Speaker 4: of my speakers. So it's it's a real thing. And
Speaker 4: so you know, as a family, it's a good idea
Speaker 4: to have some sort of secret phrase.
Speaker 3: So when you get a call three o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4: Telling you, hey, this is you know, this is little Jimmy, Dad,
Speaker 4: I'm in jail. I need you to get gift cards
Speaker 4: or whatever sort of scam they run on you. You know,
Speaker 4: they got little Jimmy's voice out the social media or
Speaker 4: office phone or wherever else.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: A again, awareness that if you get a call like that,
Speaker 4: and a strong red flag for voice cloning is there's
Speaker 4: a long pause between what you say and a response,
Speaker 4: and that's exactly typing what they want the computer to
Speaker 4: say exactly so.
Speaker 3: But it's real.
Speaker 4: It's absolutely real, Kevin, and again, awareness skepticism, stop, take
Speaker 4: a breath, and then go out of band. If I'm
Speaker 4: going to kind of shriff calls and says, hey, little
Speaker 4: Jimmy's in jail. Here's little Jimmy. You know, hang up
Speaker 4: and call them back. Hang up and call them back
Speaker 4: on the number that you can.
Speaker 1: Verify, you know, exactly now.
Speaker 2: And pointing this more towards the trucking industry again, it's
Speaker 2: important because of the fact that these companies can clone.
Speaker 2: These companies pan clone an invoice and show up to pick.
Speaker 1: Up a load. The verification process needs to be put
Speaker 1: in place.
Speaker 2: You know a little bit of human technology in terms
Speaker 2: of even the cyber technology to find out that this
Speaker 2: is being done. They talk about how the double brokering,
Speaker 2: the fact that some of these companies are talking about
Speaker 2: how first the thieves will steal a business identity, They
Speaker 2: trick shippers into handing over entire container loads simply because
Speaker 2: they can type up a manifest and come up and
Speaker 2: pick that up. And then sometimes they will broker that
Speaker 2: out to a legitimate company or a legitimate trucker that
Speaker 2: is unaware that this is not a legitimate broker that
Speaker 2: they're dealing with. They'll pick up the load and deliver it,
Speaker 2: and then of course the money is stolen or the
Speaker 2: load is stolen, they don't get paid for it. The
Speaker 2: product has been stolen, which again it's necessary to verify
Speaker 2: these things. Make sure that you're dealing with the proper company,
Speaker 2: that it's a company you know you can verify, call
Speaker 2: their phone number, and so on. And what's even more
Speaker 2: amazing is that as I was reading through some of
Speaker 2: these stories, they were talking about in terms of hey,
Speaker 2: you know, put a lock on your truck, make sure
Speaker 2: that you control the access in and out of your warehouse,
Speaker 2: that somebody just can't have you know, people just can't
Speaker 2: in walk in off the street. Make sure that there's
Speaker 2: security codes on the building that people are picking up,
Speaker 2: just minor types of things that would cut a lot
Speaker 2: of this theft down completely.
Speaker 1: Now. Is it too expensive now?
Speaker 2: Or is it the technology getting better to where somebody
Speaker 2: could actually because I don't know if you saw the
Speaker 2: article about Guy Fieri. Guy Fieri has he had a
Speaker 2: shipment of tequila that was stolen, about a million dollars
Speaker 2: worth of that, and it was a kind of a
Speaker 2: clever scam. They actually broke in the job to another firm,
Speaker 2: which turned out to be fictitious. The imposter carrier carried
Speaker 2: forged documents, phony email accounts, and fake phone numbers. But
Speaker 2: then when the thieves took off, they were trying to
Speaker 2: track this over the period and they were able to
Speaker 2: fake the GPS and stuff. Is it getting to a
Speaker 2: point now where you can actually put it like a
Speaker 2: tracker on some of these the loads, so that you
Speaker 2: know exactly where it is as opposed to just all right,
Speaker 2: it's supposed to go to Phoenix, and yeah.
Speaker 4: You could, you could, I mean think about something like
Speaker 4: an Apple air tag, right, I mean, that's a relative
Speaker 4: compared to a million dollar loss buying a bunch of
Speaker 4: Apple air tags or other more industrial type devices that
Speaker 4: you could affix to a palette or something to do
Speaker 4: some additional tracking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's.
Speaker 4: All well within the realm of possibility. And my guess
Speaker 4: is because of these sort of the fs, you'll see
Speaker 4: more of that type of thing.
Speaker 3: And I know with that the Guy.
Speaker 4: Fierti tequila story, like this stuff, and then the whiskey
Speaker 4: stories something like it's I think it'll be hard for
Speaker 4: them to unload that because it's high profile.
Speaker 3: But it just goes to show you.
Speaker 4: You know, if you're a criminal and you could set
Speaker 4: up a shell company and create a fake website and
Speaker 4: fake email addresses and fake phone numbers, all of which
Speaker 4: are very trivially easy to do, and you could steal
Speaker 4: a million dollars.
Speaker 3: And let's let's see it took you a way, Kevin.
Speaker 4: Let's say he took a week of setting out the
Speaker 4: stuff right and creating the fake emails and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: And you know, if you could make a million dollars
Speaker 4: a week in theft, you'd be doing pretty good, you know,
Speaker 4: I'd I'd say so, Yeah, by my math, at three
Speaker 4: hundred and sixty five or fifty two weeks a year,
Speaker 4: that's fifty two million.
Speaker 3: Dollars a year. You're you're doing pretty good.
Speaker 1: Not a bad payday, Dave.
Speaker 2: I think that's all I can say is I am
Speaker 2: sure glad that you're on the right side of the
Speaker 2: law and not the wrong side of the law, because
Speaker 2: I think you could probably come up with a pretty
Speaker 2: couple of pretty good schemes in order to scam some
Speaker 2: people big time.
Speaker 4: So well, I'm out here trying to help people prevent
Speaker 4: these sort of things and protect themselves because it's become
Speaker 4: as we become increasingly reliant on this digital technology, there
Speaker 4: is just an ever increasing number of opportunities for the
Speaker 4: bad guys to scam you, and you just youve got
Speaker 4: to be skeptical and move cautiously exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, Dave Hatter, it's been a pleasure we got to
Speaker 2: have you on again, because this is there's always just
Speaker 2: way too much information to get in a couple of
Speaker 2: segments because of all the things going on out there.
Speaker 2: I certainly appreciate your time. Hope you and your family
Speaker 2: have a happy Thanksgiving and enjoyable time.
Speaker 4: Well, thanks for having me on, Kevin, I'm happy to
Speaker 4: come on anytime and they I hope you and your
Speaker 4: family and all your listeners have a happy Thanksgiving too.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Kevin Gordon, my guest Dave Hadter, Cincinnati's top cybersecurity
Speaker 2: pro I'm Kevin Gordon. America's struck a Network seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 2: This is america'struck a Network seven one hundred WLW.
Speaker 1: Doobless claims.
Speaker 2: We've got some interesting economic data here actually yesterday, going
Speaker 2: into the holiday season. Usually some of these numbers aren't
Speaker 2: supposed to come out until Thursday, but they came out
Speaker 2: a day early because of the Thanksgiving holiday today, and
Speaker 2: so well they're just published early. Our jobless claims drop
Speaker 2: to the lowest level since April. A US initial job
Speaker 2: is claims fell by six one thousand to two hundred
Speaker 2: and sixteen thousand for the week, and in November twenty second,
Speaker 2: the lowest level since April. All this stuff that we
Speaker 2: keep hearing about the economy that jobs are you know,
Speaker 2: the job market is not as strong as it should
Speaker 2: be the fact that there are very few companies or
Speaker 2: very few layoffs is indicating in these jobs.
Speaker 1: The lowest level of layoffs or.
Speaker 2: Unemployment initial jobless claims since mid April. That is absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 2: At two hundred and sixteen thousand. The prediction had been
Speaker 2: that there were going to be two hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: five thousand jobless claims for that particular week, which meant
Speaker 2: that the so called experts that predicted this were off
Speaker 2: by four percent. Now four percent isn't a lot, but
Speaker 2: it's still when you're talking about individual jobless claims as
Speaker 2: far as where those numbers go. Now, we have talked
Speaker 2: about on this program how these jobless claims have been
Speaker 2: in that range and where people are saying it the
Speaker 2: low end of that range around two hundred and ten
Speaker 2: thousand up to two hundred and fifty thousand. But within
Speaker 2: that range is where these job with claims have been
Speaker 2: for a number of months and even I think almost
Speaker 2: a year now. So nothing Again, we're back to what
Speaker 2: we've talked about numerous times on this program that companies
Speaker 2: are in a no hire, no fire situation where they
Speaker 2: want to hold on to their employees, thinking or hoping
Speaker 2: that things will bounce back or things that are coming
Speaker 2: will peak and things will grow. And I keep saying
Speaker 2: that the thing that it's In my opinion, the thing
Speaker 2: that's holding back our economy are the high interest rates.
Speaker 2: People are reluctant to buy new equipment, expand their business,
Speaker 2: buy a new piece of machinery or something along those lines,
Speaker 2: because they're unsure as to well as far as interest
Speaker 2: rates are concerned. They're looking at the cost of that
Speaker 2: saying that my return on investment isn't going to be
Speaker 2: what I think it's going to be, and so therefore
Speaker 2: I'm going to hold off, hoping that the interest rates
Speaker 2: come down, hope that things change, or if business picks
Speaker 2: up tremendously more than what it's been doing, then maybe
Speaker 2: I just got to bite the bullet and go ahead
Speaker 2: and expand the business. But these are the kinds of
Speaker 2: things that businesses are paying attention to and figuring out
Speaker 2: whether or not what they should do. Now they're talking
Speaker 2: about here in terms of again that the figures employers
Speaker 2: are still largely retaining current employees. They pulled back on
Speaker 2: bringing on new hires, though they have been increasing the
Speaker 2: number of job cut announcements. By lord, we have seen
Speaker 2: these job cut announcements. However, they haven't taken effect yet.
Speaker 2: And you know, they can announce these job cuts like
Speaker 2: Amazon have been making comments that they're going to be
Speaker 2: laying off a lot of their workforce, which is kind
Speaker 2: of interesting because all of the jobs that we have
Speaker 2: been seeing, or they've been talking about tech jobs, well,
Speaker 2: AI apparently is coming in and replacing some of the
Speaker 2: people that are in these tech jobs, and they're looking
Speaker 2: around and saying, well, gee whiz, I don't think we
Speaker 2: need this many people, but it'll be interesting to see
Speaker 2: because you know, I've been seeing a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: as far as AI where people are starting to think
Speaker 2: that this isn't the you know, this isn't quite as
Speaker 2: ready for prime time as everybody would like to think.
Speaker 2: There are still some hitches in that and not quite
Speaker 2: completely trustworthy at this point, I guess, is what I'm
Speaker 2: trying to say. Because again, it's a matter of somebody
Speaker 2: is inputting these algorithms, somebody is developing these algorithms, and
Speaker 2: if there's a miss, if there's something that's not done properly,
Speaker 2: you're going to get a situation of garbage in, garbage out.
Speaker 2: And so this rush to try to lower your number
Speaker 2: of employees because of AI may wind up backfiring in
Speaker 2: the end. So it's interesting that in the fact that
Speaker 2: the headline, you know, one one headline said jobless claims
Speaker 2: dropped to lowest level since April. Another jobless claims claims
Speaker 2: that's seven month low, as layoffs remained low. Basically, it's
Speaker 2: it's good news that they can't hide from they, you know,
Speaker 2: when you're talking about a seven month low, that the
Speaker 2: jobless the jobless claims unexpectedly fell last week. How many
Speaker 2: times over the year have we heard unexpectedly to the
Speaker 2: good side, retail sales unexpectedly high, home sales unexpectedly high,
Speaker 2: unemployment unexpectedly low, all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's just amazing that.
Speaker 2: The so called experts are calling for certain things in
Speaker 2: the economy that just aren't flat out happening. Another bit
Speaker 2: of good news, capital goods have been reported. Although businesses
Speaker 2: are reluctant to boost hiring, they are spending more on equipment,
Speaker 2: underpinning the economy. A separate report from the Commerce Department
Speaker 2: Census Bureau showed non defens capital goods orders excluding aircraft,
Speaker 2: a closely watched proxy for business spending, jumped point nine
Speaker 2: percent in September after an upwardly revised point nine percent
Speaker 2: increase in August.
Speaker 1: So back to back.
Speaker 2: Months where usually we saw a point nine percent increase.
Speaker 1: Now that may not seem like a nuts a lot.
Speaker 2: But economists head forecast the so called core capital goods
Speaker 2: orders rise point two percent. So they missed that by
Speaker 2: what is that number? Probably I think something like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's about three hundred, three hundred and fifty percent. They
Speaker 2: blew that estimate. They expected a point two percent and
Speaker 2: it came in at point nine percent unexpected again, unexpectedly high. Economists,
Speaker 2: like I said, head forecast to these capital goods orders rising.
Speaker 2: There were strong increases in orders for computers, electronic products,
Speaker 2: electrical equipment, appliances and components, as well as transportation equipment
Speaker 2: and primary metals, but orders for machinery barely rows. Again,
Speaker 2: people that are in the manufacturing industry that as far
Speaker 2: as machinery to build and to manufacture stuff, they are
Speaker 2: again not investing or holding back hoping that interest rates
Speaker 2: come down or that their amount of business justifies the
Speaker 2: return on investment of having high interest rates, but biting
Speaker 2: the bullet and buying that piece of equipment anyway, because
Speaker 2: they have the necessary orders, the necessary products or orders
Speaker 2: to fulfill in order to make that a make that
Speaker 2: a worthwhile investment GDP. Now get this, okay, I'm going
Speaker 2: to do a little bit of bragging here. You remember
Speaker 2: back during the period of time, right during what they
Speaker 2: called Liberation Day, back in April April the second, when
Speaker 2: people were saying, oh, while the stock market went down
Speaker 2: tremendously because the announcement of all these tariffs, people.
Speaker 1: Were talking about the R word.
Speaker 2: They were talking about a possibility of recession, talking about
Speaker 2: negative growth, talking about the GDP going down, that there
Speaker 2: wasn't going to be there were going to be, you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of layoffs. There were going to be massive layoffs.
Speaker 2: There was going to be rapidt inflation, and that was
Speaker 2: going to push us into a recession. And they were
Speaker 2: talking about, well, we don't expect by the end of
Speaker 2: the year that GDP was going to be around. They
Speaker 2: were predicting it to be about one point eight percent.
Speaker 2: Back then, I was saying, by the end of the year,
Speaker 2: I expected to see GDP somewhere between gross domestic product
Speaker 2: somewhere between four point five percent and five percent by.
Speaker 1: The end of the year.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people around the office, around the
Speaker 2: studio said, you know your little nuts there.
Speaker 1: Well, the Atlanta.
Speaker 2: Atlanta Federal Reserve is forecasting gross domestic product for the
Speaker 2: third quarter to increase at four percent annualized rate in
Speaker 2: the July to September quarter. The delayed third quarter GDP
Speaker 2: report will be released on December twenty third. The economy
Speaker 2: grew at three point eight percent pace in the second quarter.
Speaker 2: Orders for durable good items ranging from toasters to aircraft
Speaker 2: meant that the three years or meant to last three
Speaker 2: years and more rose point five percent. According to Christopher Roupki,
Speaker 2: chief economists at Forward Bonds, one thing is certain and
Speaker 2: that is is going to be a gigantic, gigantic quarter
Speaker 2: for real GDP growth, although admittedly it's only a rear
Speaker 2: view looking mirror looking back at the third quarter, which
Speaker 2: was affected by the government shutdown. So if my prediction
Speaker 2: doesn't come in at four point five percent or five
Speaker 2: percent GDP growth somewhere between four point five, it's because
Speaker 2: of the government shutdown. That was four was done by
Speaker 2: the Democrats, the Shumer shut down. But again, very good news.
Speaker 2: Four percent, right in line with what Kevin Gordon from
Speaker 2: America's Truck and Network has been talking about. Well, folks,
Speaker 2: enjoy the rest of the day. Enjoy the rest of
Speaker 2: the weekend and and you know, just have a great time.
Speaker 2: Don't eat well, I'm going to say don't eat too much,
Speaker 2: but yeah, indulge. I'm Kevin Gordon, America's Truck and Network
Speaker 2: seven hundred WLW