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Speaker 1: Hike sixty three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in

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Speaker 1: part by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili for a

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Speaker 1: three way or cheeze Cony today. Feeling good, It's Skyline Time.

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Speaker 1: This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: All Right, good afternoon, Happy Tuesday. Welcome in to Cincy

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Speaker 2: three to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: Hope you're having a great start to your day. Appreciate

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Speaker 2: you joining us here on the home of the Bengals,

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Speaker 2: ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. It feels like, for

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Speaker 2: whatever reason Austin here, in recent weeks, we have had

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Speaker 2: so much stuff to talk about, and I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's normally the case in December, when the football team

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Speaker 2: you're talking about has four wins, the college football team

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Speaker 2: lost four in a row down the stretch, and one

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Speaker 2: of the basketball teams is trending in the wrong direction.

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Speaker 2: Yet thanks to the Kyle Schwarber News, Jermaine Burton, Joe

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Speaker 2: Burrow's comments last Wednesday, Trey Hendrickson, Samar Stewart, and so

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Speaker 2: many other things, we have had so much to talk

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Speaker 2: about here as of late, and that continues to this afternoon,

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Speaker 2: we have more on the Cincinnati Bengals. I want to

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Speaker 2: expand a little bit on a conversation Moe and I

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Speaker 2: had yesterday on Joe Burrow and the wait that I

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Speaker 2: believe is on Joe Burrow's shoulders right now. Paul Dayner Jr.

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Speaker 2: With an unbelievable also unbelievable article today for The Athletic

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Speaker 2: talking about Zach Taylor and Duke Tobin al golden and

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Speaker 2: something that I don't think a lot of people knew

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Speaker 2: about that probably changes how this organization goes about any

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Speaker 2: potential changes this offseason. Austin and I will have a

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Speaker 2: conversation on wins down the stretch versus the high draft picks,

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Speaker 2: or wins versus the culture that they can create when

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Speaker 2: you look at three games remaining. Of course, this stemming

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Speaker 2: from yesterday when Zach Taylor said Joe Burrow will be

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Speaker 2: the starting quarterback for the final three games of the

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Speaker 2: regular season. I think that, and rightfully so, is met

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Speaker 2: with a little bit of pushback, a little bit of uneasiness,

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Speaker 2: and I understand why if you watch the NFL this weekend,

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Speaker 2: you understand why and how quickly things can go wrong.

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Speaker 2: I'll expand more on why I'm worried about Joe Burrow

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Speaker 2: playing in the final three games. If you missed it yesterday,

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Speaker 2: Brendan Sowersby is no longer a Cincinnati Bearcat. He has

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Speaker 2: hit the transfer portal. There is speculation that he winds

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Speaker 2: up at Texas Tech. His girlfriend just committed to Texas

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Speaker 2: Tech out of the portal to play volleyball. I've heard

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Speaker 2: Indiana thrown around, but it's a Bearcat football team that

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Speaker 2: is trying to make preparations for the Liberty Bowl against

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Speaker 2: a Navy team that will not be shorthanded. It's a

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Speaker 2: tall task outside of field. Spoke yesterday on the bowl

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Speaker 2: game preparation and on Brendan Soresby. In today's nil World,

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Speaker 2: we'll play that for you in our number three. It

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Speaker 2: is Tuesday, which means our guy, Joe Daniman will join

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Speaker 2: us at one o'clock. We have your talkbacks and of

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Speaker 2: course your phone calls five, one, three, seven, four, nine,

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Speaker 2: fifteen thirty. What else do we have Austin, We have

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Speaker 2: news from the Cincinnati Reds today as it pertains to

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Speaker 2: the Reds Hall of Fame Class of twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Lou Panella Sweet Lou Sweet Lou Baby, let the Reds

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Speaker 2: toe the wire to wire nineteen ninety World Series championship

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Speaker 2: in his first year as Reds manager. The fiery leadership

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Speaker 2: and winning mentality. You remember that nineteen ninety season, Austin

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Speaker 2: Wire to wire.

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Speaker 3: No I wasn't here.

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Speaker 2: You should. You're gonna be reminded of it. A lot

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Speaker 2: here coming in the next few years. Reggie Sanders is

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Speaker 2: a Reds Hall of Famer. In twenty twenty six, he

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Speaker 2: was an All Star, finished sixth in MVP voting in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. There is only twenty Reds players in

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Speaker 2: history to hit more home runs as a Red and

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Speaker 2: only twenty players in Red's history stole more bases as

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Speaker 2: a Red.

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Speaker 3: That is a guy who is truly beloved by a

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Speaker 3: lot of Reds fans maybe doesn't get enough recognition. So

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Speaker 3: I'm glad he was put in by the Veterans Committee

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Speaker 3: into the Reds Hall of Fame. He very much deserves it.

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Speaker 3: Aaron Harangu durable, haranguetank.

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Speaker 2: Consistent, tied for the NL wins mark in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and six, top the league that year in complete games

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Speaker 2: and strikeouts. He's the Reds leader in strikeouts each season

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Speaker 2: from four to seven and in two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 2: and then finally Brandon Phillips Dat Dude b phil flashy defense, power, speed, combination,

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Speaker 2: the personnel to match. He was a three time All Star,

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Speaker 2: four Gold Gloves, Silver Slugger Award. Those are your four

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Speaker 2: new Reds Hall of Famers for the class of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six.

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Speaker 3: I feel old seeing guys like Aaron Harang and Brandon

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Speaker 3: Phillips go into the Reds Hall of Fame. But I mean,

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Speaker 3: obviously the day that they have the inductions and everything,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be there for my guy. Dad. Dude

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Speaker 3: BP the greatest defensive player that I've ever watched, and

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Speaker 3: that's not just in a Red's uniform. That's ever. He

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Speaker 3: was nightly highlights watching him play. The personality, the leadership,

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Speaker 3: the drive and had so many big hits and big

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Speaker 3: home runs and was a heartbeat of that team. I'm

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Speaker 3: fired up for that dude BP.

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Speaker 2: Before I did radio, I ran a training facility at

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Speaker 2: a spot here in Cincinnati, and Brandon Phillips Austin would

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Speaker 2: rehab injuries there because a team doctor was there, so

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Speaker 2: he would come up and rehab his injuries and then

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Speaker 2: they would me from time to time just to kind

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Speaker 2: of long toss with b Phil and I remember a

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Speaker 2: couple different times like after we were done long tossing,

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Speaker 2: he would stay out there and just drill different things

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Speaker 2: and just watching his glove work from like a basic

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Speaker 2: fundamental drill standpoint was unbelievable, Like the types of things

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Speaker 2: he was doing with the glove and a ball, like

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Speaker 2: you just kind of caught yourself watching sure and staring,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like that is pretty much how he

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Speaker 2: played second base, where you were just in awe of

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Speaker 2: things that he can do, and the personality matched it

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Speaker 2: very very well deserving for those four members into the

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Speaker 2: Reds twenty twenty six Hall of Fame Class. Monday Night

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Speaker 2: football last night made it twenty three Monday Night football

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Speaker 2: wins at home in a row for the Pittsburgh Steelers,

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Speaker 2: twenty four in a row. They did so last night

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Speaker 2: with a win over the Miami Dolphins, who have now

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Speaker 2: lost fourteen straight games and games that start when the

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Speaker 2: temperature is under forty degrees twenty eight to fifteen. The

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Speaker 2: final score was not indicative of how much of a

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Speaker 2: blowout in one sided affair that was Aaron Rodgers last

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Speaker 2: night Austin was vintage Aaron Rodgers, just four in completions

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Speaker 2: twenty three of twenty seven, two touchdowns. Kenneth Gainwell got

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Speaker 2: it going on the ground. They used Connor Hayward for

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Speaker 2: a touchdown. John new Smith ran in a touchdown. How

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Speaker 2: about guys like Adam Thielen, Marquez, Valdez Scantling had a

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Speaker 2: touchdown catch Ye, Darnell Washington, Pat Fryarmuth, dk Metcalf, Kenneth Gainwell.

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Speaker 2: They spread the ball around last night, as Aaron Rodgers

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Speaker 2: put him. The cast offs, the group that, according to

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Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers, no one else wanted, and yet they have

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Speaker 2: made Holmes in Pittsburgh. It was a big win last

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Speaker 2: night for the Pittsburgh Steelers, who moved to eight and six.

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Speaker 2: Any other big takeaways from you last night watching the

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Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Steelers in the Miami Dolphins.

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Speaker 3: I was just watching, thinking the entire Steelers offense is

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Speaker 3: built around Kenneth Gainwell, and I can't believe that about that.

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Speaker 3: I thought Rogers looked pretty solid, he looked sharp. I

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Speaker 3: don't know that he was as great as some might

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Speaker 3: make him out to be.

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Speaker 2: But twenty three to twenty seven was a lot of

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Speaker 2: checkdown stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Pittsburgh as a whole is playing some

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Speaker 3: of their best football of the season. Their defense has

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Speaker 3: certainly gotten a lot better. And I don't know that

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Speaker 3: Miami was really I don't know that they were ever

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Speaker 3: really in the game. Didn't feel like they were, and

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Speaker 3: they were kind of weird the way that they approached

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Speaker 3: the clock in the second half, much like we've seen

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Speaker 3: from the Bengals at times this year. But it makes

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Speaker 3: the last couple of weeks interesting, especially for Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 3: And I've been thinking about it, and I think I

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Speaker 3: would rather see the Steelers go to the playoffs. I

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Speaker 3: know we had that question yesterday. I'd rather see the

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Speaker 3: Steelers go to the playoffs again, especially because of just

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Speaker 3: where they're at with life after Aaron Rodgers. But I

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Speaker 3: think I'm with you. I'm fascinated by that team because

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Speaker 3: I don't think they are as good as their record says.

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Speaker 3: They know.

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Speaker 2: I don't buy that Dolphins try. They went to Pittsburgh early,

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Speaker 2: they practiced in the snow. That was all cool, it's

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Speaker 2: still cool. They still can't win in a cold weather game.

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Speaker 2: Tua is awful. Yep, what about Cooper flag last night,

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Speaker 2: the youngest player in NBA history to have a forty

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Speaker 2: point game put up forty two points. The previous mark

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Speaker 2: was thirty seven, set by Lebron James. Unfortunately, for Dallas

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Speaker 2: and Cooper Flag, it came in a loss. I was

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Speaker 2: about to say, did they win to the Utah Jazz?

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Speaker 2: But Cooper Flag a rough start. I think he is

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Speaker 2: finding his footing as he.

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Speaker 3: Goes in Dallas' record.

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Speaker 2: Well, the other day when MAVs and seven left to

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Speaker 2: talk back, they were seven games under five hundred, so

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine they're any better.

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Speaker 3: They still are. They're ten and seventeen, okay, just hovering

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Speaker 3: right around there. Did you see that Oklahoma City lost?

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 3: That's the first time they've lost in a while when

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Speaker 3: they lost to the Spurs. Do you know who has

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Speaker 3: the best record in the Eastern Conference? I could not

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Speaker 3: tell you.

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Speaker 2: In the East.

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Speaker 3: The Detroit Pistons are twenty one and five, okay, followed

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Speaker 3: by the Knicks at eighteen and seven.

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Speaker 2: Knicks Thunder or Nicks Spurs. Tonight for the NBA Cup,

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Speaker 2: that's correct, the championship, the gold all on the line tonight.

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Speaker 2: Other random is going to have people over absolutely. Well,

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Speaker 2: he's gonna be at Oakley Greens today, I know, but

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Speaker 2: he'll just t that. Okay, he'll just stay there. I

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Speaker 2: guess we'll ask him today for quick kits the NBA Cup.

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Speaker 2: Other noteworthy things. Arch Manning is going back to Texas.

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Speaker 3: Good for him.

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Speaker 2: And this is going with a conversation we'll have along

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Speaker 2: Joe Burrow. The Washington Commanders have shut jayde and Daniels

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Speaker 2: down for the rest of the year. They made that

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Speaker 2: decision yesterday. Just too many health cancerre for Jane Daniels.

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Speaker 2: The season is lost for Washington. They are setting him down.

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Speaker 2: Philip Rivers will remain the quarterback for the Colts on

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Speaker 2: Monday Night football against the forty nine Ers. What are

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Speaker 2: some other things? And Patrick Mahomes Austin already had his

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Speaker 2: ACL surgery.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of amazing. Goes to Dallas for a

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Speaker 3: second opinion on the surgery and is able to get

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Speaker 3: it done. I wonder if the second opinion was somebody

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Speaker 3: willing to do the surgery that day, sure, because usually

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Speaker 3: you gotta wait for the swelling to go down before

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Speaker 3: you can adequately operate on something like that. To be

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Speaker 3: what twenty four hours after the injury to already have

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Speaker 3: surgery completed. I don't know about that, but you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe that's a question for Bob Manjeen or something later

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Speaker 3: this week, But that obviously would accelerate the timeline should

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Speaker 3: everything have gone well, that Patrick Mahomes may not miss

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Speaker 3: as much time as maybe originally.

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Speaker 2: Thought time that we can obviously spend later in the

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Speaker 2: year talking about this or in the new year. But

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Speaker 2: I think that team an organization will be fascinating to

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Speaker 2: watch this offseason. Sure, you know they've finally been dethroned,

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Speaker 2: they missed the playoffs. I feel like there's been speculation

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Speaker 2: about Andy Reid the last couple of years. You know,

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Speaker 2: is Andy Reid committed to going back in Does Travis

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Speaker 2: Kelcey say I don't want to go out like that

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Speaker 2: and want to come back for another year. I think

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of interesting dynamics to that team

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Speaker 2: to watch out for. I think it's interesting Austin. I

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Speaker 2: watch and I look from a receiver point of view.

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Speaker 2: Right now, Travis Kelcey is number two, tied with Kyle

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Speaker 2: Pitts in yards for tight ends this year. So it's

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Speaker 2: not like Travis has had an awful year. He's got

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Speaker 2: the second most receiving yards of any tight end in football.

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Speaker 2: It just has not felt as easy as it has

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Speaker 2: been for Travis Kelcey. So they, I think, are a

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Speaker 2: fascinating fascinating watch as they are officially eliminated from playoff contention.

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Speaker 2: Other I guess, noteworthy things to watch in the NFL

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Speaker 2: Now that we are officially done with Week fifteen, that

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Speaker 2: race between New England and Buffalo has certainly tightened. Austin,

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Speaker 2: you mentioned an interesting dynamic that could play out between

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Speaker 2: the Steelers and Ravens, I believe going into the final

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Speaker 2: week of the year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I saw a tweet that basically said, if the

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Speaker 3: Ravens are to beat the Patriots and the Ravens are

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Speaker 3: favored by three points, and the Lions are to beat

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Speaker 3: the Steelers Detroit is favored by seven points, then Week

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Speaker 3: seventeen becomes meaningless for both Pittsburgh and Baltimore yep, because

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Speaker 3: they play each other in Week eighteen in the winner

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Speaker 3: gets into the playoffs, which you can basically guarantee that's

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Speaker 3: going to be the Sunday night game Week eighteen. They

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Speaker 3: haven't announced that yet, but you know, if that's the case,

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Speaker 3: Raven at Packers, which is Saturday night, no One doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter for Baltimore, and Steelers at Brown Sunday doesn't matter

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Speaker 3: for Pittsburgh. They could theoretically rest their starters and try

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Speaker 3: to get healthy ahead of those games. I think that

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Speaker 3: would be an interesting dilemma that you don't often see. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 3: at the end of the regular season, AFC East is

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Speaker 3: up for grabs, AFC North is up for grabs. The

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Speaker 3: AFC South is still up for grabs, the Jaguars at

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Speaker 3: ten and four in the Houston Texans at nine and five.

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Speaker 3: The only division that has been clinched in the AFC

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Speaker 3: is the AFC West, clinched already by the Denver Broncos,

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Speaker 3: winners of eleven games in a row. In the NFC.

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Speaker 3: The NFC West I don't think has been clinched yet.

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Speaker 3: Both of those teams are eleven and three. Thursday Night

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Speaker 3: Football YEP Tampa.

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Speaker 2: And Carolina seven and seven battling it out in the

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Speaker 2: NFC South, the NFC North Bears ten and four, Packers

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Speaker 2: nine and four still up for grabs in the Philadelphia

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Speaker 2: Eagles nine to five, a comfortable NFC East lead over

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Speaker 2: the Dallas Cowboys. Now, so that is where things stand

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Speaker 2: AFC NFC going into uh another week of the NFL season.

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Speaker 2: Week sixteen now comes up in just a couple of days.

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Speaker 2: Austin just mentioned the Thursday night football matchup.

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Speaker 4: UH.

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Speaker 2: Here in Cincinnati, we're looking ahead to the Dolphins game.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of people already looking ahead to

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Speaker 2: the offseason and questions that could have came in the

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Speaker 2: offseason that perhaps Paul Dayner Junior helped answer. Well before

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Speaker 2: we even get there, we'll talk about what Paul Dayner

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Speaker 2: Junior had to say next and we'll field your phone

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Speaker 2: calls on the matter. Five one, three, seven, four nine,

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Speaker 2: fifteen thirty, It's Sincy three to sixty on the Home

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Speaker 2: of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 1: Hey Alexa, who's going to see football in the NATI?

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by Postman Law On ESPN fifteen thirty,

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Speaker 1: the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome back Monday. I'm sorry, not Monday. It's Tuesday. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Monday was yesterday, which means this is just since he

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Speaker 2: three sixty. It's not the Monday midday quarterback. We are

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Speaker 2: a service of our good friends at Skyline Chile and

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Speaker 2: what we have that happened earlier today Austin was an

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Speaker 2: article by Paul Dayner Junior of The Athletic. Now Paul

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Speaker 2: joins MOE on Tuesdays, it'll be fascinating to hear what

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Speaker 2: they have to say today. But Paul put together a

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Speaker 2: piece today about the Bengals have been eliminated from the

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Speaker 2: playoff for a third straight year, will anyone be fired?

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Speaker 2: And then Paul gives an inside look at what will

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Speaker 2: definitely happen very likely won't new info and a remaining variable.

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Speaker 2: Paul Dayner Junior essentially in this article Austin, and you

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Speaker 2: encourage people to go rend it themselves. Yes, I'm just

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to provide just kind of some

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Speaker 2: notes from this article. The big takeaway for me was, quietly,

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Speaker 2: I think, without anyone around the Bengals knowing, when that

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two season ended, the Bengals gave Zach Taylor

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Speaker 2: another contract extension. So there have been a lot of

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Speaker 2: people Loston operating under the idea that Zach Taylor's contract

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Speaker 2: is up in twenty twenty six. The reality is, as

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Speaker 2: we've learned here from Paul, is his contract is actually

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Speaker 2: up in twenty twenty seven. I believe that's the same

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Speaker 2: as Al Golden as well. The article also goes into

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Speaker 2: detail about Zach Taylor's relationship with Joe Burrow, Zach Taylor's

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Speaker 2: relationship with the Brown and Blackburn family, and how good

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Speaker 2: of a relationship that is. Taylor, Zach Taylor and Mike

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Speaker 2: Brown speak every week during the season. Zach Taylor has

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Speaker 2: seemingly had the support of Joe Burrow. It just feels

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Speaker 2: unlikely that Zach Taylor will be moving on or will

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Speaker 2: be fired at any point soon. The extension after twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two was one that really no one, like I said,

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Speaker 2: knew about. And let's face it, for much of this

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Speaker 2: ongoing playoff drought, the offense hasn't been the issue. So

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Speaker 2: Zach has two years left on his deal. All right,

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Speaker 2: I gotta cut that. I gotta cut what you just said. Okay,

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Speaker 2: the offense hasn't been the issue a ton no, I

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Speaker 2: mean with Joe Burrow. Yeah, so Zach has two years

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Speaker 2: left on his deal. He's got a good relationship with

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Speaker 2: the Brown family and the Blackburns, outside of a few

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Speaker 2: weeks this year with Jake Browning where it was abysmal.

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Speaker 2: The offense has found ways to put up points on

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Speaker 2: the Zach Taylor piece alone, Austin, is there anything else

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Speaker 2: to add from Paul's article.

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Speaker 3: I think it's to me the most interesting part is

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Speaker 3: that he signed a contract extension after the twenty one

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Speaker 3: season that they went to the Super Bowl, and again

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Speaker 3: after the twenty two season where they went to the

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Speaker 3: AFC Championship game. That to me was the Bengals looking

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Speaker 3: at Zach and saying, Okay, we're gonna give you a

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Speaker 3: raise again because we believe in you and we believe

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Speaker 3: in what you're building. And I think the twenty three

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Speaker 3: team was pretty good and probably could have made some

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Speaker 3: noise in the playoffs as well. I don't think they

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Speaker 3: were as good as twenty two, but the Burrow injury happened,

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Speaker 3: and I think it's fair to give Zach a pass

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Speaker 3: for that last year. He doesn't get a pass. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and for the most part this year he doesn't get

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Speaker 3: a pass because they very much were in the conversation

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Speaker 3: to win those games and they didn't. And I think

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Speaker 3: Zach played a role in that. Had this been the

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Speaker 3: final year of his deal, twenty six been the final

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Speaker 3: year of his deal, I think the likelihood of the

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Speaker 3: Bengals moving on from him would be much higher. However,

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Speaker 3: with two years left on the deal, I think it's

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Speaker 3: at basically zero per sinse the likelihood that they would

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Speaker 3: move on from Zach just based off of the history

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Speaker 3: of Mike Brown with coaches. And the other thing that

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Speaker 3: Paul makes abundantly clear in this and James wrote about

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Speaker 3: this and made that abundantly clear and his article as well,

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Speaker 3: is that the decision maker here is Mike Brown. It's

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Speaker 3: not Katie, it's not Troy, it's not Duke, it's not Elizabeth,

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Speaker 3: it's not Caroline, it's nobody else but Mike Brown. And

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Speaker 3: that's the person that's going to be making these decisions.

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Speaker 2: Now, one other thing on Zach Tarelan. Now I'll just

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Speaker 2: ask you, but we're going to dive into his comment

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Speaker 2: estion that Joe Burrow is going to be the guy

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Speaker 2: going forward, and we'll talk about wins down the stretch

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Speaker 2: versus draft picks, and we'll have that conversation today. Let

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Speaker 2: me ask you this, reading this from the article today

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Speaker 2: and everything you just said, which I agree with, if

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Speaker 2: this team puts up three more performances that are similar

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Speaker 2: to what we saw on Sunday. Does that change things?

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Speaker 2: I think, like I think Sunday was the first time

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Speaker 2: I can say the team has not played hard for

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Speaker 2: Zach Taylor.

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Speaker 3: I agree with that. I think based off of reading this,

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Speaker 3: and I think, you know, Moe might be able to

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Speaker 3: get a better understanding out of Pall from this. My

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Speaker 3: takeaway from reading it was there's a list of reasons

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Speaker 3: why Zach is going to remain the head coach. However,

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Speaker 3: the final three games do matter, and if they are

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Speaker 3: as ugly and non competitive as Baltimore was, then I

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Speaker 3: think that could be enough to push them over the edge.

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Speaker 3: But as of now, it's not like his job is

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Speaker 3: in danger. That's the vibe that I got.

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Speaker 2: Do you think our Golden's job is in danger.

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Speaker 3: I think it's in the most danger of anybody, but

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's in much danger. And I think

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Speaker 3: the main reason for that has been the improvement after

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Speaker 3: the bye week, and then I don't think that's a

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Speaker 3: good enough reason. By the way, I'm not sold on

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Speaker 3: al Golden. I've never been sold on Al Golden, but

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Speaker 3: based off of the improvement, which after the bye week

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Speaker 3: has been a decent enough sample size to say, Okay,

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Speaker 3: there's something tangible here that is probably enough to save

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Speaker 3: his job.

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Speaker 2: And then there's this there's a lot about Duke Tobin here,

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Speaker 2: but the the quote that stood out to me Austin

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Speaker 2: and you can find the quote all over this article

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Speaker 2: here with Paul on Duke Tobin. He says, Duke Tobin

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Speaker 2: has never seen his role challenged or exposed to this level. Externally.

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Speaker 2: There are people around this team that are fed up

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Speaker 2: with how the personnel has been put together, how the

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Speaker 2: money has been spent, how the draft picks have been used.

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Speaker 2: He's never seen his role challenged or exposed to this

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Speaker 2: level externally. Internally, however, it's just not happening. When you

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Speaker 2: hear that, obviously, that tells me makes me feel like

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Speaker 2: Duke Tobin is safe. Should he be safe?

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Speaker 3: No, he should have been fired a long time ago.

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Speaker 3: But he's not going to be. Duke Tobin will be

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Speaker 3: in that position until he doesn't want to be in

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Speaker 3: that position anymore, or until somebody else starts making decisions

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Speaker 3: at the top of the organization. It's never been a tha.

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Speaker 3: He's not challenged. I think he's challenged internally. I don't

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Speaker 3: think that he is like by challenged, I mean maybe

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Speaker 3: some opinions on players or the direction of the franchise,

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Speaker 3: But I don't know that it's ever been like, hey,

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Speaker 3: your job's on the line here. I don't know that

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Speaker 3: it's ever been that way since Duke has been here

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Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety nine. Up until this point, I've never

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Speaker 3: felt like it was actually in jeopardy. But I've at

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Speaker 3: least appreciated that there is some external noise about it,

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Speaker 3: and more people are talking about his failures. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: especially this offseason because the whole you know, we're going

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Speaker 3: to sign our guys, and last year we got unlucky.

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Speaker 3: That's no way to run a franchise. And I do

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Speaker 3: think Duke has pull. As much as we want to

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Speaker 3: talk about Mike Brown as the guy who makes the decisions,

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Speaker 3: and that's true, I think Duke Tobin has pull, and

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Speaker 3: I think Duke has the ability to challenge Mike on

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Speaker 3: stuff and can His voice has heard just as much

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Speaker 3: as anybody else's. And as Paul writes, Duke is basically

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Speaker 3: family and that again goes to the point of how

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Speaker 3: much influence does he have and is it too much?

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Speaker 2: Outside of what we just discussed, And again urging, urging,

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Speaker 2: anyone listening, go read the article and make your conclusions

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Speaker 2: from that. Anything else from the article stand out to you.

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Speaker 3: The biggest thing with me is obviously Zach's extension after

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Speaker 3: twenty two. I think it's also important that people understand

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Speaker 3: the Bengals rarely, if ever, make it public anything about

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Speaker 3: their coaches contracts, and so them not saying anything is

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Speaker 3: not abnormal. I don't think it's right. I think they

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Speaker 3: should be transparent, but it's not abnormal. And then the

434
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: other thing to me is, as much as all of

435
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 3: that is outlined by Paul, and he does a great

436
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 3: job of it, I think that these last three games

437
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 3: do matter. I think it matters on the internal perception

438
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 3: of Zach Taylor. I think it matters the way the

439
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 3: locker room responds to him, and I think it matters

440
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 3: when it comes to decision making about players going into

441
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 3: the offseason. Now in Miami is okay, they're not great,

442
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: Arizona is not very good and they're starting Jacoby Brissett. Cleveland

443
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: has an elite defense, but is by no means a competitive,

444
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 3: you know, competing for anything in the AFC. My concern

445
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 3: has always been, and I've talked about this a lot

446
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 3: this year. Is you cannot allow what happens over the

447
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: final seven games to change what you saw in the

448
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: first ten, or what happens in the first the last

449
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 3: five games to determine, you know, change what you saw

450
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 3: in the first twelve. But I think that these games

451
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 3: do matter to the people inside that organization when formulating

452
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 3: their plan for twenty twenty six and beyond.

453
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: It is it's a remarkable read, and it also plays

454
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: into what we're going to have a conversation about when

455
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: we get back about those final three games. And I'm

456
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 2: going to relate it to Joe Burrow from what I

457
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: saw yesterday or what I saw on Sunday. We'll have

458
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: that discussion when we get back. Joe Daniman will join

459
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 2: us at one. Will also take your phone call five one, three, seven,

460
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: four nine. Fifteen thirty three sixty continues on ESPN fifteen thirty,

461
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Sports Station.

462
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN

463
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. Your

464
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: front row seat to the Fierces debates in Sports Moegger

465
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: Today at three pm on ESPN fifteen.

466
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: Thirty must qualify for enrollments. Results me.

467
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 5: There he La Mark Doom's the right foot a couple

468
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 5: of times catches a shotgun snap, it's a heap dropped.

469
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 5: Lamar throws and it is dropped and it is possibly

470
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 5: picked off. The Bengals are celebrating.

471
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: Yes, it's an interception.

472
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 5: The ricochet goes to Jordan Battle and Cincinnati gets a

473
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 5: takeaway at the twenty eight yard line.

474
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 6: Jordan Battle had a pretty good defensive series there.

475
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 3: He had a tackle as an unblocked defender and that

476
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 3: interception is.

477
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: Huge, big time stuff from Jordan Battle. That's our Win

478
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: Schulers call of the night. Thank you our friends at

479
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: Win Schulers. Four fantastic chief spreads pairwell with anything over

480
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 2: the course of the holiday season. You know, Austin, we

481
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: did the Tony and Mo Football Show yesterday and one

482
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: of our sales reps, Todd Curlis, came and saw us.

483
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Todd brought Win Schulers with him. He told

484
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 3: me he was gonna do that.

485
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: Just an incredible gesture.

486
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if he had the guts, but he did.

487
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: He brought it in. Good for him, fantastic, It was fantastic.

488
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: Thanks to win Schulers. All right, let's have this conversation here, Austin,

489
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow is gonna play down the stretch. Winning is important,

490
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: says Zach Taylor.

491
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: Yes.

492
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: Now, the argument to it for some is well, if

493
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: you win the meaningless game down the stretch, then you

494
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: get a worse draft spot and you potentially miss out

495
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: on a higher draft pick, a more impactful draft pick.

496
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: And we know that drafting has been a struggle to

497
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: this team. That's not my concern when it comes to

498
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow playing down the stretch. What is your take

499
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: on Joe Burrow playing and winning being important more so

500
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: than anything else.

501
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: I have always said that if a player wants to play,

502
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: and he's healthy enough to play, then he should play.

503
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: I have no problem with Joe Burrow playing the final

504
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: three games. The Bengals are to me, the most important

505
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: pieces that you get in the top five or six

506
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: or seven pieces in the NFL draft. Places in the

507
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: NFL draft are quarterbacks. The Bengals don't need one. Now sure,

508
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: your argument to that in response would be, well, they

509
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: can't draft outside the top five, and I get it,

510
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 3: I understand, But to me, they don't need a franchise quarterback.

511
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: So drafting anywhere from nine to fifteen isn't that big

512
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: of a difference in my opinion. And I saw something

513
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: from Ian Rappaport over the weekend where he said that

514
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: when you're trying to build a culture, winning games is

515
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: more important than draft picks. And I think back to

516
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 3: twenty twenty or twenty nineteen, when the Bengals were terrible

517
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: and they benched Andy Dalton and they went with Ryan Finley.

518
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: They were playing for draft picks, they were tanking, and

519
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: then once they got their quarterback and Burrow went down,

520
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: you know, in mid November, they were still trying like

521
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 3: hell to win those games, and they could have screwed

522
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: up a chance to draft Jamar Chase. They won those

523
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 3: four games, and we often look back to the Steelers

524
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: game in December of twenty twenty as one of those

525
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 3: culture building wins. I think, based off what we've seen

526
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 3: over the last six to eight months, with guys like

527
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: Trey Hendrickson on the way out, with Logan Wilson gone,

528
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 3: with other parts of this roster lacking leadership. Von Bell

529
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 3: is not here, Mike Kilton's not here, and so on,

530
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 3: I think desperately that this team still needs the culture

531
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: and it needs to rebuild its culture, and I think

532
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 3: winning games will help that. And I don't think there's

533
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 3: a huge difference between picking ninth or picking fifteenth or

534
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: sixteenth in the NFL draft this coming season.

535
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: Will you say that if the Bengals are picking twelfth

536
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: and at number ten, Caleb Down gets drafted because it's

537
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: easy to say that now.

538
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 3: Sure, sure, it's easy to say that. Now, it's easy

539
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: to say anything t say what you just said. Now,

540
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 3: we don't know who they're gonna draft.

541
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: This team has so many holes, they're so far away

542
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: from a super Bowl. Sure, what good are you doing

543
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: losing draft positioning down the stretch?

544
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: I get it? But my point argument, My point is

545
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: like the intangible culture building aspect of it. Sure that

546
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 3: you really can't measure as opposed to being able to

547
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: measure from draft picks. And I get it. I get that.

548
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 3: That's that's probably a hole in my argument.

549
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: Well, the culture is not great either because of how

550
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: this team just played correct Sunday, So that's not but

551
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: that's not my argument. My argument is this. Joe Burrow

552
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: was clearly off last Wednesday when he spoke Would you

553
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: agree that Joe Burrow was off on Sunday. Yes, Joe

554
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: Burrow openly talked about not just throws being off. He

555
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: talked about missing protections, He talked about miss reads, He

556
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: talked about missed assignments. Here's my worry. If you are

557
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: at all mentally compromised, and your mindset, your preparation, your

558
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: build up to a game is not one hundred percent

559
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: on what you need to do in that moment in

560
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: that game, then the risk for being injured goes up

561
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: because the risk for mistakes go up. You miss a protection,

562
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: you run the risk of getting hurt. You miss a read,

563
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: you hold onto the ball longer, you run the risk

564
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: of getting hurt. The Joe Burrow I heard last Wednesday

565
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: doesn't seem okay. The Joe Burrow I watch play on

566
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: Sunday doesn't seem okay. And the Joe Burrow that I

567
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: heard Jamar Chase talk about after the game on Sunday

568
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: doesn't seem okay. And I don't think it's physical. I

569
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: think it's something going on mentally. That's speculation, that's just

570
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: my point of view. But if you're not one hundred

571
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 2: percent mentally in the week leading up to the game,

572
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: and in that game, if your mind's not all on that,

573
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: you run the risk of exposing yourself and it runs

574
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: the risk of a higher rate of injury.

575
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: Have we ever felt like we've seen that mentality or

576
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 3: those type of mental lapses from Joe Burrow uring his sixties.

577
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: We've never seen that. We've never heard something like last Wednesday,

578
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: that coincided with the game that he had on Sunday,

579
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 2: which coincided with what Jamar Chase said about trying to

580
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: check in and make sure he's good. Those three things alone,

581
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 2: I think are one offs. Those three things all in

582
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: the span of a couple of days. I don't think

583
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 2: that's happenstance. I don't think that's just random. I think

584
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 2: there's something going on with Joe Burrow, and if there is,

585
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: I think running him out there could be dangerous.

586
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: My point, or my counter to that would be, we've

587
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: never seen it before. We certainly have never seen it

588
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: like in back to back games or something like that before.

589
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: So to me, Joe gets the benefit of the doubt

590
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: of that was a bad week, a bad game, it

591
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 3: was in the cold, whatever you want to say. I

592
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 3: don't believe I'll see that Joe Burrow again. That's and

593
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: I'm just going off of history of like, I've just

594
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: never seen him perform that poorly in one game, let

595
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 3: alone back to bad games. He normally bounces back really well.

596
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 3: I think of the twenty one season, we played really

597
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: bad in Chicago and came back and played pretty well

598
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 3: against the Pittsburgh Steelers the next week and they beat

599
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 3: him twenty four to ten. He's had bad games, He's

600
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: had bad games, He's had bad moments. I don't know

601
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 3: that it's it's ever been something that has snowballed into

602
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 3: a bad season.

603
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: But rarely have we ever heard Joe Burrow talk about

604
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: missing checks. Sure, missing assignments, missing protections. I'm gonna I'll

605
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: do a video later this week. The interception he threw

606
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 2: for a pick six Jamar He had a pre snap motion,

607
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: he knew the coverage Jamar Chase was one on one,

608
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 2: he didn't look at him. How many that's ninety nine

609
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: point nine percent of the time that ball goes to

610
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: Jamar Chase? Sure, I that's my thing. Joe Burrow's had

611
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: bad games before. I don't think Joe Burrow has made

612
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: the mental mistakes we've seen and brought this up yesterday

613
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 2: the point in the third quarter on a third and

614
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 2: eight or third and ten, Joe Burrow scrambles out of

615
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: the pocket. They're down seventeen to nothing, and instead of

616
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: extending the play, instead of giving someone a shot down

617
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: the field, Joe just jogged out a bounce. And I've

618
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: never seen that before. MoMA said, yes, he said that

619
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: was the moment the white flag was waived. Where is

620
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: the f that Jamar is down their mentality, or where

621
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 2: is tucking the ball up and going and getting a

622
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: couple extra yards and going forward on fourth and down

623
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: or giving someone a chance. He just jogged out of bounce.

624
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: We've never seen that from Joe Burrow. I just I

625
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 2: worry about the mental side and running him out there

626
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: if that's not one.

627
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get where you're coming from. I just I

628
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: feel like, as of now, to me, he's earned the

629
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt that like, this isn't going to

630
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 3: be a trend. Yeah. And the other part that I

631
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: think of is, let's say something is going on mentally

632
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 3: or in his personal life or whatever it might be,

633
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 3: is taking him away from football the best thing for him.

634
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 3: I don't know that that's his job. That's his identity.

635
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 3: That's or if it overlaps into football, it's dangerous. Yeah,

636
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 3: I get where you're coming from. Like that, that totally

637
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 3: makes sense. I just think at the end of the day,

638
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: if he wants to play, he should play. And he's

639
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: making two hundred and seventy five million dollars, And as

640
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: we outlined in the last segment, these games do matter.

641
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 3: I think they matter to Zach. I think they mattered

642
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 3: to Al Golden. I think they matter to a guy

643
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 3: like Andre Josevash. Yeah, you know, I think it matters

644
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 3: to a lot of guys on defense. So I think

645
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 3: there can still be even though it means nothing in

646
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 3: the grand scheme of things, I think there is something

647
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: to be learned from and taken from these final three weeks,

648
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 3: even if it's minimal, even if it's not a ton

649
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 3: I think there is some value still in it.

650
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: You mentioned Andrey Yoshivas by the way, very quiet game

651
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,959
Speaker 2: for him on Sunday with no T Higgins as well.

652
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, the film suggests that yoshibosh could have a big game.

653
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: Let's take a break. We'll finish up this hour with

654
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 2: some phone calls, and then we'll switch to Joe Danaman

655
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Welcome back,

656
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 2: since he three to sixty on a Tuesday, ESPN fifteen

657
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: to thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. We got Joe Danaman in

658
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: just a few minutes. So let's get through a couple

659
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 2: of quick phone calls. Chad, what's going on?

660
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 4: Man? Hey? Thanks heavy? Heay real quick without Paul Dana Regent.

661
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 4: Zach Taylor's not going anywhere now we know that Al

662
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 4: Golden I thought he might go. He's not going anywhere.

663
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 4: The problem is Duke Topin. He's the one that needs

664
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 4: to go. I think there's Zach Taelor's going to the

665
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 4: shoot for hims gonna be. He didn't have Burrow Al Golden.

666
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 4: The shoot for him's gonna be. These weren't his. That

667
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 4: The problem is the way this team is constructed and

668
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 4: what they do in free agency. Obviously that's the problem.

669
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 4: As far as his last three games go, I don't

670
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 4: think it matters what they win our loot out because

671
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 4: they've proven that they can't drop them anyways. So I

672
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 4: think Austin's right, there's a culture thing that they need

673
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 4: to be to say, but Tobin is the one that

674
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 4: has to be fired. If they don't, if they bring

675
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 4: him back, and there's gonna be this is gonna be

676
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 4: the same thing over again next year. It's not gonna change.

677
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 4: It's the problem is Tobn. It is exactly Tobn. That's

678
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 4: the problem.

679
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 7: Chat.

680
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: I appreciate the phone call man, Thank you. Yeah. I

681
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 2: if you had this, if you had to vote Austin

682
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 2: or rank who's safest in their job between Al Golden,

683
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 2: Zach Taylor, and Duke Tobin, would it be Golden Taylor,

684
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 2: Tobin safest like Tobin. I'm sorry, I'm uh most most

685
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 2: outrest risk.

686
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 3: It would be Al Golden, Yeah, and then Zach and

687
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 3: then Duke makes sense?

688
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 4: Uh?

689
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: Ian, what's going on?

690
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up guys? A couple of quick things. First

691
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 6: one is lighthearted, kind of serious, but kind of a

692
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 6: joke in here.

693
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: Uh.

694
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 6: You know, Mike Brown whispered in the Burrows Year that

695
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 6: week before he had that first press conference saying he

696
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 6: wasn't feeling too great and he's not gonna say out

697
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 6: loud that this is what's going on. He kind of

698
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 6: wink wink to everybody when he was saying a lot

699
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 6: of things are happening, and Mike was probably like, Hey,

700
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 6: we're just gonna wait so he can get a higher

701
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 6: draft pick here, I wouldn't put it past them. I'm

702
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 6: kind of kidding, but I'm kind of serious. If you

703
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 6: look at the pattern of this franchise, it's like they

704
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 6: would rather wait and take a lottery ticket on getting lucky.

705
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 6: I'm getting a good defense together every ten or fifteen

706
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 6: years rather than being more preemptive and really going after it. Okay,

707
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 6: My second part to the whole deal is they have

708
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 6: all this information laid out before them of like how

709
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 6: they could improve, learn from this, take your ego, throw

710
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 6: it out the window, and learn from what's good. If

711
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 6: they're gonna stick with Duke Tobin and this staff and

712
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 6: the way they run things, and they really want to

713
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 6: develop and drafted where you need to like attack the

714
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 6: concentrated issue with authority, and if they don't do that,

715
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 6: I mean, we're freaking doomed. But that's the problem, and

716
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 6: it's all laid out. We talked about it before the draft,

717
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 6: about going after a couple of key guys to really

718
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 6: shure it up. They just they're paying money for big

719
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 6: guys and they don't sure up on the other end.

720
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 6: That's a problem. Man, if you're not gonna develop correctly,

721
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 6: you got you gotta pick and shoes. You can't float

722
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 6: and win like they do.

723
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: Man.

724
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 3: That's my opinion, and.

725
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: I appreciate the phone call, thank you.

726
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: I would make the argument that they have attacked the issue,

727
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: it just hasn't hasn't worked. And we've talked about what

728
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: they've done on defense, right from signing Sheldon Rankins to

729
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 3: all the draft picks, to keeping Trey Hendrickson around to

730
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: like all of it. Geno Stone was a free agent

731
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: acquisition after leading the leading the AFC and interceptions like

732
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 3: there has been a concentrated effort to fix it. They've failed.

733
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 3: So to Ian's point, that's all on Duke Tobin.

734
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 2: So if they if they found a way to if

735
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: the same cast of characters will be there Austin, is

736
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: there anything they can do to learn or adjust how

737
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 2: they operate?

738
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 3: That's the biggest question of this offseason. What did they

739
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: learn from the last two years because this offseason they

740
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 3: chalked it up to being unlucky. Well, you don't get

741
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: that excuse this year, and I'm not going to accept

742
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: the Burrow was heard excuse because they were in those

743
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 3: games and they could have won them and they didn't.

744
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 3: So what did you learn about yourself this year? And

745
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 3: how do you fix it?

746
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 2: Yep? That to me is it's such a wild card

747
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 2: and how this will be handled. We got one more

748
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: call here for just a minute or so. What's up, Mike?

749
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 7: Did you call me? Joe?

750
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 2: What's up?

751
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 7: Mike? Okay? Thank you? Hey, up real quick. On those

752
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 7: ticks nine through fifteen, I do make I do think

753
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 7: it makes a difference. I think it makes a huge difference.

754
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 7: If you guys there, especially so desperate for a defender,

755
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 7: and you got the fifteenth instead of the nights, unless

756
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 7: you got things to play with for a trade, which

757
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 7: they don't, you'd much retter be nine than fifteen. Austin,

758
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 7: I don't agree with that at all. I need to

759
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 7: explain that to me. Well, I just don't understand the

760
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 7: logic that you have there. I'm sorry. I'm not trying

761
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 7: to be a smart route.

762
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 3: I'm saying when you have the amount of needs that

763
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 3: they have, whether it's up front or a linebacker or

764
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 3: a safety or a corner, like, there's going to be

765
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 3: guys available in that range that I don't know that

766
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 3: there's varying degrees of separation. Like one through five, that's

767
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 3: obviously an elite, elite group of athletes. I think the

768
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 3: middle six to eighteen is kind of the same group

769
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: of player. I don't know that there's a huge gap

770
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 3: between the types of players, especially when you have multiple needs.

771
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 3: That's my point.

772
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 7: I get you, and that makes sense. The quarterbacks will

773
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 7: go first, as we know, and then maybe if you're

774
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 7: at that Nights pick, you might get the what would

775
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 7: be uh A quarterback caliber on the defensive side.

776
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying.

777
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I hear you. Yeah, who knows.

778
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 7: What I'm worried about here? Got well? I think this

779
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 7: is probably the worst season. The feel of the season,

780
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 7: Joe's injury, the way that the team has lost games.

781
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 7: This might be the toughest on him mentally, don't you agree? Yes, okay,

782
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 7: because it's just been a crappy season for everybody and

783
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 7: including poor Joe. For God, wants to win so bad.

784
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 7: He's wanted everything he's done all his life. I think

785
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 7: that's playing on him hard. But I'm just worried we're

786
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 7: drifting back to the days of Carson and I hope

787
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 7: the hell I'm wrong, but it's it's an eerie feeling

788
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 7: because history repeats itself. Guys, it does, you know. Unfortunately,

789
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 7: So that's all I had those.

790
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: Thank you, I appreciate you.

791
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

792
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: I have more on the Joe Burrow topic that we'll

793
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 2: get to as the show goes on today. For now,

794
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 2: let's get a break. I know Joe Daniman is anxiously

795
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: standing by to talk to us. We'll talk to him

796
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 2: when we return on this the whole of the Bengals,

797
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports STATIONCKY Cincinnati.

798
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: Make us the number one pre sent on your car

799
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: radio and on the free, new and improved iHeartRadio app

800
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:28,200
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801
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: tail g