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Speaker 1: This is Tony Pike Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati. From Cincinnati.

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Speaker 1: This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, Cincy three to sixty. Thanks for listening on

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Speaker 2: the Home of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to some of your phone calls. Our phone

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Speaker 2: lines are our up and running, so we'll take some

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Speaker 2: phone calls here. As an hour two gets a little

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Speaker 2: bit further underway, let's talk a little bit about the

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Speaker 2: Pro Football Hall of Fame class of twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Those who did make the Hall of Fame. Drew Brees

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Speaker 2: and his first year eligible is a Hall of Famer.

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Speaker 2: Larry Fitzgerald in his first year eligible is a Hall

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Speaker 2: of Famer as dominant at his position as you can

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Speaker 2: get right here from Cincinnati, Ohio, Saint Xavier High School,

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Speaker 2: Boston College to the Carolina Panthers. Luke Keikley is a

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Speaker 2: Hall of Famer. He is a seven time Pro Bowl selection,

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Speaker 2: five time All Pro in an All Decade selection. Also,

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Speaker 2: he was the Defensive Player of the Year in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: That was just his second year in the league, so

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Speaker 2: he went defensive rookie of the Year and then Defensive

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Speaker 2: Player of the Year. Played all three downs, went sideline

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Speaker 2: to sideline. He had one hundred tackles at least in

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Speaker 2: all eight of his NFL seasons, led the league in

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Speaker 2: tackling twice. And how about this, deflected sixty seven passes

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Speaker 2: and had eighteen interceptions. Upon his retirement, Luke Keigley said,

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Speaker 2: there was only one way to play the game since

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Speaker 2: I was a little kid. Play fast, play physical, and

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Speaker 2: play strong. So well deserving not only on the field

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Speaker 2: but for the person that he is off the field.

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Speaker 2: Luke Keighley is a Hall of Famer, Adam Vinteri is

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Speaker 2: a Hall of Famer, and Roger Craig is a Hall

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Speaker 2: of Famer. That unfortunately meant last night that both Willie

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Speaker 2: Anderson and Ken Anderson were not selected this year into

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Speaker 2: the NFL Hall of Fame's it feels like more of

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Speaker 2: a blow each year because it feels like as the

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Speaker 2: years go by, maybe you lose that opportunity a little

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Speaker 2: bit more. My thoughts on ten Anderson, I thought Mike

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Speaker 2: Petralia summed it up pretty well. He says that Ken

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Speaker 2: Anderson's not in the Hall of Fame because there are

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Speaker 2: too many people who don't know football and don't know

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Speaker 2: what they're watching. Beyond that, beyond his Hall of Fame

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Speaker 2: worthy statistics, as Petrellia said, he literally helped redefine offensive football.

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Speaker 2: The late Bill Walsh would tell you this much. He

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Speaker 2: chose Ken Anderson to run his new offense ten years

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Speaker 2: before he knew of Joe Montana the process as a joke.

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Speaker 2: And we've learned that over the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Whether it's Ken Anderson, whether it's Willy Anderson. I think overall, Austin,

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Speaker 2: it's just tough to know that there are so many

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Speaker 2: players who impacted the organization and the city of Cincinnati

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Speaker 2: in such a way that are not being recognized at

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Speaker 2: the highest level. And there is a true frustration that

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Speaker 2: comes with that. And I understand that frustration from people

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Speaker 2: as well. But you kind of just you move on

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Speaker 2: and you hope that next year is the year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I don't get the feeling that Ken is going to

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Speaker 4: get in just based off of the way things work,

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Speaker 4: and maybe there will be changes to the process for

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Speaker 4: the Senior Committee moving forward. And even one of the voters,

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Speaker 4: Mike Sando, who writes for The Athletic in Seattle replied

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Speaker 4: to my tweet last night and said he thinks Willy

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Speaker 4: Anderson has better odds than Ken Anderson moving forward, and

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Speaker 4: he's one of those voters. And on that panel there

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Speaker 4: are Hall of famers Dan Fouts, Tony Dungee, James Lofton,

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Speaker 4: Bill Pollian, people that have played and worked in the

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Speaker 4: NFL for a really long time, People that do know

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Speaker 4: football are a part of that. But again, I think

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Speaker 4: the biggest issue is the process itself when it comes

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Speaker 4: to the Senior Committee. And there were you know, I

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Speaker 4: posted this long thing last night about about Ken Anderson,

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Speaker 4: and there were multiple voters that liked that tweet that

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Speaker 4: agreed with me about Ken Anderson. And so I think

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Speaker 4: that says something like there there's a reason why craft In,

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Speaker 4: Belichick and ELC Greenwood and Ken Anderson, all those guys

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Speaker 4: didn't get in is because of the way that the

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Speaker 4: voting is set up and votes work against other guys

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Speaker 4: instead of in favor of the dudes. As far as

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Speaker 4: Willie Anderson and is concerned, that I think, and this

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Speaker 4: is not to take away from Ken Anderson, is egregious

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Speaker 4: as hell. There was no more dominant or right tackle

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Speaker 4: in the history of the NFL nobody, I mean, just

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Speaker 4: as good as Willie Anderson. And in his era there

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Speaker 4: was nobody better and it wasn't even close. And part

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Speaker 4: of the issue with the Hall of Fame I have

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Speaker 4: right now is that you never see offensive lineman get in.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Joe Thomas was the last one to get in.

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Speaker 4: It's they barely ever get in. And I don't quite

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Speaker 4: understand that now, you know, he's the good news with

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Speaker 4: Willy is he's automatically a finalist again next year.

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Speaker 2: Along with what Marshayanda and Terrell sucks.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and again Marshall Yanda another dude that very well

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Speaker 4: could be in the Hall of Fame. And now you're

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Speaker 4: going to start getting guys like Andrew Whitworth. Andrew Whitworth

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Speaker 4: is going to be a first time eligible player next year.

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Speaker 4: Ben Roethlisberger is going to be a first time lay.

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Speaker 5: Peterson.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think looking at that list, like right away, Gronk,

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Speaker 4: you know he's getting in. I don't know about the

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Speaker 4: rest of him. I don't know if Antonio Brown would

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Speaker 4: get in. I don't know if they'd put Whitworth in

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Speaker 4: right away. I'm not sure. So maybe he has a

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Speaker 4: pretty decent chance next year, but I really thought this

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Speaker 4: year was the year because I felt like, based off

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Speaker 4: of the people that were in there, I thought Venetia

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Speaker 4: would wait a year, but they put him in right away.

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Speaker 4: I was a little surprised by that, only the third

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Speaker 4: kicker inducted in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. But

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Speaker 4: I think overall, fans of this franchise feel like no

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Speaker 4: one at the national level or the people that vote

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Speaker 4: at the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Bengals fans don't

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Speaker 4: feel seen, and Bengals players don't feel seen and don't

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Speaker 4: don't feel respected. And part of that has to do

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Speaker 4: with the fact that for a while they didn't win,

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Speaker 4: especially in the Willie Anderson era, they didn't win. And

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Speaker 4: when I think there's this idea that you're out of sight,

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Speaker 4: out of mind, I think that's changed over the last

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Speaker 4: several years, especially like the Bengals are in the spotlight

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Speaker 4: now more than they've ever been, and that's good and

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Speaker 4: that will help them, and you know, Jamar Chase is

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Speaker 4: going to be in the Hall of Fame and Joe

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Speaker 4: Burrow and those guys down the line, like it'll help

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Speaker 4: them then, but for a while, you know, the Bengals

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Speaker 4: were a little bit out of sight, out of mind,

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Speaker 4: and unfortunately, I think it's hurt them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's like an intentional thing. I just

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Speaker 4: think it's hurt them.

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Speaker 2: Among those other twenty twenty seven first time eligible candidates

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Speaker 2: you mentioned Andrew Whitworth, the Killer Bees, Le'Veon Bell, Antonio Brown,

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Speaker 2: Ben Roethlisberger. How much does Antonio Brown's trouble off the

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Speaker 2: field impact his chances to get in? He was a

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Speaker 2: seven time Pro bowler.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, four years in a row, all Pro four years

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Speaker 4: in a row was back and forth between him and

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Speaker 4: Julio Jones and Bengals fans here would say aj Green,

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Speaker 4: but between those guys for who's the best wide receiver

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Speaker 4: in the NFL, and that I think means a lot.

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Speaker 4: But you can compare him to Chad Johnson. Ocho Cinco

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Speaker 4: had a four year stretch where there was like I

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Speaker 4: think he led the AFC and receiving yards for four

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Speaker 4: years in a row. Yep, that dude was unbelievable and

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Speaker 4: then it just kind of stopped. Same thing happened to

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Speaker 4: Antonio Brown.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The way things went in Las Vegas, the way things

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Speaker 4: have gone went in Tampa and the other places. I

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Speaker 4: think he will get in eventually, but I don't think

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Speaker 4: it'll be soon.

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Speaker 2: Does Cam Newton have a case? No, I don't think

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Speaker 2: so either. Super Bowl sixty happens on Sunday. I have

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Speaker 2: two quarterback questions for you. Does a win on Sunday

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Speaker 2: make Sam Darnold an elite quarterback?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so either. Although his stats over the

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Speaker 2: last two years, if you take away the melt down

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Speaker 2: at the end of last year and this year, he's

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Speaker 2: been a really, really solid quarterback. I don't think elite though.

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Speaker 2: And then they had a conversation earlier on first take,

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Speaker 2: is Drake May playing with house money? What do you mean, like,

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Speaker 2: is this house money for Drake May? Because Steven A

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Speaker 2: said yes, and Ryan Clark said yes, and then Cam

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Speaker 2: Newton and dan Orlowsky yesterday were kind of the voice

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Speaker 2: of reason of well, you could make the case for

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Speaker 2: a guy like Cam Newton, and Cam said as much today.

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Speaker 2: He said, listen, if you'd have told me when we

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Speaker 2: went to the Super Bowl that there is not a

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Speaker 2: chance I would be back, I would have told you

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Speaker 2: you were crazy. I knew I was going to go

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Speaker 2: back to the Super Bowl. Yet I never did. And

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Speaker 2: he lays the list out of you know Marino and

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Speaker 2: threw Joe Burrow in there on the list of you know.

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Speaker 2: You could have made the argument when Joe Burrow went

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Speaker 2: to the Super Bowl, you could have said, well, this

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Speaker 2: is house money. Joe Burrow is going to be back

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Speaker 2: to more Super Bowls. He hasn't been. I don't I

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Speaker 2: think there's a thing is house money when it comes

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Speaker 2: to playing in the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think sve it's a dumb talking point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I don't. I don't think that's there anymore.

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Speaker 2: Now again, if if Drake May wins on Sunday at

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Speaker 2: his age, it resets the whole trajectory and expectation of

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Speaker 2: his career. I'll say that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, think about it from your perspective as a player.

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Speaker 4: You let's say you're playing in the Super Bowl. Are

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Speaker 4: you thinking I'm good if I don't win this?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what Cam's Newton point. Cam Newton's point was,

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Speaker 2: even after we lost the Super Bowl, I thought to myself,

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Speaker 2: I'll be back.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't good.

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Speaker 4: I don't like I don't agree with that mentality. And

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Speaker 4: he never came back. He also didn't dive on a

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Speaker 4: loose ball in the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 2: Well, we also think the same of Like I thought

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Speaker 2: the same of Joe Burrow, like after the Super Bowl, like, well,

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Speaker 2: Joe's gonna be back to a super Bowl. The Bengals

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Speaker 2: will be back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: But I don't I don't think Joe put yourself in

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Speaker 4: the in the mindset of the player. I don't think

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Speaker 4: Joe Burrow is looking at like, Oh, I'm gonna We're

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Speaker 4: gonna keep going back to the Super Bowl over and

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Speaker 4: over and over again. I think in the moment, you're thinking,

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Speaker 4: this is the most important game of my life. This

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Speaker 4: will change my life. We have to win this game now.

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Speaker 4: Maybe after the game and down the line, you're thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 4: we can get back there, like I know what it

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Speaker 4: takes now and you have confidence. But like in the

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Speaker 4: moment leading up to this week, you're not thinking, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're about to go on a run of a bunch

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Speaker 4: of Super Bowls. I don't think anybody thinks that way.

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Speaker 2: For the game itself. Who's your pick?

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Speaker 4: Seattle twenty seven, New England seventeen.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say Seattle twenty four, New England twenty one.

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Speaker 2: I think I think New England covers the number. I

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Speaker 2: think Seattle wins the game. I think it's more of

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Speaker 2: a late score to cut up to three for New England.

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Speaker 2: My biggest thing with this game, it just feels to

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Speaker 2: me like the front four of Seattle is going to

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Speaker 2: provide enough pressure and when need to. I know you

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Speaker 2: highlighted this as well. We talked about this yesterday. Seattle

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Speaker 2: is not not against bringing pressure from the secondary, but

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Speaker 2: I think early in the game they're gonna kind of

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Speaker 2: let their front four do their work. You look at

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Speaker 2: a rookie left tackle in the Super Bowl, Will Campbell

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Speaker 2: starting for the New England Patriots, has a lot of

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Speaker 2: pressure on him. I look at the front four for Seattle,

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Speaker 2: and I think that becomes a serious, serious problem for

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Speaker 2: the New England Patriots offense. So give me Seattle twenty

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Speaker 2: four because I do think the Patriots defense, I think

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Speaker 2: Christian Gonzalez Vus Jackson Smith and Jigba is gonna be awesome.

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Speaker 2: Who's your Super Bowl MVP?

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Speaker 4: I think the betting favorite and the smart play would

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Speaker 4: be Sam Darnold. But I'm gonna say Rashid Schiet.

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Speaker 2: That's such a a he was my kind of off

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Speaker 2: the radar pick as well, because he can affect the

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Speaker 2: game as a runner, as a receiver, and a return guy.

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Speaker 4: If there's a specialty touchdown.

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Speaker 2: And I think I think you're gonna I think it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be more low scoring. I don't think you're gonna

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Speaker 2: have a quarterback though, for three hundred yards and four touchdowns.

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Speaker 2: I think Shaheed's ability like he could very well easily

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Speaker 2: go over one hundred receiving rushing yards. You already saw

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Speaker 2: the kick return earlier in the playoffs, He's had a

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Speaker 2: punt return. He's he's kind of done at all. I

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Speaker 2: think he's a very sneaky long like. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what his odds are right now to be the Super

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Speaker 2: Bowl MVP, but I would imagine he's pretty much of

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Speaker 2: a long shot that you could probably get some pretty

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Speaker 2: pretty good odds on. I mean, it's hard to go

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Speaker 2: against quarterback because if if Seattle wins going away, I

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Speaker 2: think I think it's gonna be Donald because I think

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Speaker 2: you look at the loss of Zach Charbonnet and how

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Speaker 2: much can Kenneth Walker do. I think more will put

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Speaker 2: on Donald's shoulders. I think New England has a clear

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Speaker 2: advantage in the run game, so maybe you get something there.

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Speaker 2: But I do think that that a Shaheed MVP for

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Speaker 2: the Super Bowl has a chance to hit. So we're

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Speaker 2: in an agreement. There any other super Bowl talking points

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Speaker 2: that we haven't got to this week, I.

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Speaker 4: Don't think so. I think it's pretty much summed up.

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Speaker 4: And that's two words, right, Yes, super Bowl is two words.

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Speaker 4: It's very important that people understand that. Last chance that

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Speaker 4: we get that outre drives me nuts. Last chance Rashid Shaheed.

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Speaker 2: My biggest pet peeve is plus thirty three hundred right

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Speaker 2: now to win MVP. Those are pretty good odds.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of MVP, I'm meant to bring this up earlier

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Speaker 4: when we were talking about the awards. Did you see

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Speaker 4: the current odds to win the MVP next year?

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 4: In the NFL, Josh Allen is the favorite at plus

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Speaker 4: six hundred, Lamar Jackson at plus seven to fifty, Drake

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Speaker 4: May at plus eight fifty. Joe Burrow is fourth at

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Speaker 4: plus one thousand.

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Speaker 2: Seems like a pretty good sprinkle.

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Speaker 4: Herbert and Mahomes are next at a eleven hundred. Stafford,

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Speaker 4: the reigning champ, plus fourteen hundred.

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Speaker 2: Interesting those top two odds leaders will be doing it

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Speaker 2: with new systems and coaches in place.

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Speaker 4: I don't think there is a single non quarterback in

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Speaker 4: the top twenty who.

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Speaker 2: Would be the top out of the Pukah b Jhon

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Speaker 2: Robinson probably I cut the list off after tract twenty,

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Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm looking at Tyler Shuck as plus

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Speaker 2: ten thousand. I'm looking at a list right now that's

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Speaker 2: got Jackson, Dart and Tyler Shuck with better odds than

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Speaker 2: Bijon and Puka Akua.

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Speaker 4: Yeah that's what mine says too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. Uh, we have a ton of phone

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Speaker 2: calls that we'll try to get to when we return,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll turn it to Bob Man Jean all

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Speaker 2: here in our number three since he three to sixty.

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Speaker 2: ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 1: Is ESPN fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 4: Tony a quick piece of Reds news before we get

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Speaker 4: back to the phone calls. We are waiting on the

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Speaker 4: results of two arbitration cases for the Reds, Yes, Tyler

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Speaker 4: Stevenson being one, Graham Ashcraft being the other. Jeff Passion.

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Speaker 4: ESPN reports that Graham Ashcraft has won his arbitration case

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Speaker 4: against the Reds. That makes the players five and zero

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Speaker 4: so far in arbitration. There are six cases remaining and

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Speaker 4: two are awaiting decisions apparently, so not sure exactly when

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Speaker 4: we will hear something on Tyler Stevenson, but Graham Ashcraft

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Speaker 4: won his.

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Speaker 2: There you go, let's go. Well done to the phone

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Speaker 2: lines for the first time today. We've got a ton

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Speaker 2: of calls, so we'll try to be quick with each

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Speaker 2: one of these. What's up, Mark? Hey, Hey, how's it going.

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Speaker 6: God? My opinion about the Hall of Fame I think

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Speaker 6: is watered down. You know, when I look at a

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Speaker 6: Hall of Fame players, like in his air that he played,

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Speaker 6: was he one of the top one or two players

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Speaker 6: at his position?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 6: I think unfortunately for Ken Anderson, I think what you

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Speaker 6: got to ask yourself with him? Was he one of

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Speaker 6: the top three quarterbacks in his ear?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 6: I mean, but I think three things hurt him. When

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Speaker 6: Bill Walsh left and he had that was three seasons

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Speaker 6: seventy seven, seventy eight, seventy nine. Well, he didn't have

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Speaker 6: not so good seasons, sure, and he came back and

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Speaker 6: won the MVP in eighty one, but he had a

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Speaker 6: three year stretch where he didn't he didn't do so well,

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Speaker 6: and the Biggles even drafted a quarterback to take his plates,

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Speaker 6: Jack Thompson. And then the other thing I think hurt

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Speaker 6: him if he wins that Super Bowl in eighty eight.

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Speaker 6: I think that might have pushed him over.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 6: So that I just think he has a couple of

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Speaker 6: things working against them. As far as Willie Anderson, I

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Speaker 6: asked you this before, do they Yeah? Does that? Could

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Speaker 6: maybe think more of left tackles good right tackles, because

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Speaker 6: I think if he was a left tackle, I think

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Speaker 6: he would have been in Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think we'll see that with Witworth coming in

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty seven, of how quickly he can get

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Speaker 2: in and maybe, you know, gather a little bit more

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Speaker 2: to that theory of the left tackle position versus the right.

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Speaker 4: I think there is something there. I also think there

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Speaker 4: are two different ways to balance that out. Number one,

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Speaker 4: like looking as the game has evolved over the last

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Speaker 4: twenty years, pass rushers have been have turned into mutants

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Speaker 4: right and you pass the ball constantly, and has made

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Speaker 4: both of those tackle spots really important. And I think

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Speaker 4: for a while the idea was the left tackle is

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Speaker 4: important because he protects the passer. But I also would

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Speaker 4: argue that during Willie Anderson's era, which was a run

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Speaker 4: first era of football, the right tackle was equally as

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Speaker 4: important in the run game as the left tackle was

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Speaker 4: in the pass game. And when you look at the

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Speaker 4: players that ran behind will Anderson, especially somebody like Corey Dillon,

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Speaker 4: the seasons that Rudy Johnson had as well, I think

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Speaker 4: that is a big part of his legacy as well.

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Speaker 4: That gets overlooked.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I think the big thing.

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Speaker 6: Wow, I would vote him in. He could run, bock

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Speaker 6: block and.

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Speaker 2: He could pas block, yes, exactly.

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Speaker 6: Well, he might give up one or two sacks in

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Speaker 6: a season, so it was hard to get him around him.

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Speaker 4: So I think the official count is thirteen sacks in

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Speaker 4: sixteen seasons, yeah, or sixteen sacks in thirteen seasons or

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Speaker 4: something like that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. I think he could do both. So I think

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Speaker 6: eventually he'll get in. But I'm wondering about Ken Anders

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Speaker 6: and that could go. That can go either way, So

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Speaker 6: I'll get off in a little bit rest of itself.

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Speaker 2: Mark, I appreciate it, man, Thank you, John. What's going on?

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Speaker 7: Is Willie Anderson still available to play? Because those numbers

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Speaker 7: are incredible.

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Speaker 2: I think he could right now I think he could

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Speaker 2: come give you at least a couple snaps.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, thirteen sacking sixteen seasons, that's incredible. I'm all with you,

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Speaker 7: guys on Joe Burrow MVP twenty twenty six to make

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Speaker 7: up my big losses in twenty twenty five, and then

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Speaker 7: plus on thousand. It's the better spread than it was

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Speaker 7: last year.

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Speaker 4: So let's go in.

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Speaker 7: As a famous man once said, you can't fall off

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Speaker 7: the bat bed if you sleep on the floor, So

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Speaker 7: go at it again. We're all in on that one.

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Speaker 3: As far as the.

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Speaker 7: Game on Sunday, I think it's gonna be Patriots twenty

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Speaker 7: to seventeen, low scoring game. Both defenses are better than

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Speaker 7: the offense is when it comes to the trenches. I

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Speaker 7: think it's gonna be come for either team to run

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Speaker 7: the football. But there was one stat that really stood

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Speaker 7: out to me, guys, is that Seattle's thirty first in

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Speaker 7: offense when facing third and long. The Patriots are first

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Speaker 7: defensively when facing third and long. That's a major difference

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Speaker 7: between the two teams. If they can get Seattle on

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Speaker 7: third eight, third, nine, maybe you start to get some turnovers.

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Speaker 7: And before I go Marcus Jones, I think is a

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Speaker 7: great long shot to win MVP at sixty to one.

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Speaker 7: He returns punts as well as where she's he does,

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Speaker 7: and he's also a defensive back who may get a

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Speaker 7: pick six out of it. So I would say Patriots

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Speaker 7: with the points, Patriots money line and under, and Marcus

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Speaker 7: Jones to win MVP and UH. With my betting record

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Speaker 7: from this year, I'm sure people will.

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Speaker 2: Tail the other way. Tailor, John, have a great one man,

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Speaker 2: enjoy the Super Bowl, Sir. I think if it feels

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Speaker 2: like in this soup with both of these defenses, it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be a bad idea to have a defensive touchdown

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Speaker 2: bet on Sunday. I mean, both these defenses can force turnovers,

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Speaker 2: both can score points. I think that'd be a nice

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Speaker 2: little sprinkle. Mike, what's happening?

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Speaker 8: Okay before that, now, give me a little time since

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Speaker 8: Marcus burn everything up.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we only got a few minutes, Mike, stupid.

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Speaker 8: Well okay, souvenir, what do you guys want? You guys

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Speaker 8: want anything for the Super Bowl or not.

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Speaker 4: You don't have to get us anything, Mike.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm great. We appreciate greatly.

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Speaker 8: Zorry, what do you want? I don't want anything.

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Speaker 2: I'm good. I haven't. I haven't even looked at what

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Speaker 2: they would have to me. Unless my team's in it.

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Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't get much out of him.

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Speaker 4: Mike. If if you insist on getting us something, the

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Speaker 4: first thing you see that makes you think of us,

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Speaker 4: it is all right, I like, all.

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Speaker 8: Right, give me some latitude, good idea. Okay. Roger Craig

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Speaker 8: probably got in because he was on a dominant multi

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Speaker 8: super Bowl team. You know that Larry Fitzgerald. I didn't

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Speaker 8: realize he's second all time on the list of the

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Speaker 8: total yardist behind Jerry Rice, which is pretty incredible when

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Speaker 8: and he also played his whole career with the with

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Speaker 8: the Cardinals, which is impressive in this day and a.

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Speaker 4: And a of a lot of bad quarterbacks too.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, until Warner came along, right.

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Speaker 4: Warner and Palmer were about the only good one years.

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Speaker 8: I'm with you. I got Seattle winning this thing big

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Speaker 8: thirty one fourteen. Uh, I got the Marcus Lawrence being

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Speaker 8: if there's a weirdo, I'm went John about Marcus Jones

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Speaker 8: if New England would win, but England, but I got

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Speaker 8: I got the Marcus Lawrence with four sacks in an

438
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 8: intercept and if he don't win it, then Kenneth Walker

439
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 8: will because he's gonna have over one hundred yards.

440
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean with without without Zach Charbonnay, you

441
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 2: think he's going to handle a lot more of the workload.

442
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: New England's going to probably try to double Jackson Smith

443
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: and Jig but should open some stuff up for Kenneth Walker,

444
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: I would think.

445
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 5: So.

446
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 8: I was looking at these all time right tackles and

447
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 8: I know you got to go. It's pretty impressive list

448
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 8: of all time best right tackles Forrest Briggs at the

449
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 8: top of the list, and ray Field right from Dallas,

450
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 8: Jackie Slater from the Rams, Ron Nicks, who I remember

451
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 8: him vividly for the Chargers, and Dan's remember Dan beardof

452
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 8: Dark the announcer.

453
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: He was a tell of a right tackle with Cardinal.

454
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 8: Saint Louis Cardinals. And that's all I got. Guys, though,

455
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 8: thank you and enjoy the game.

456
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: I'll text you from the Super Bowl, Mike, enjoy the

457
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 2: Super Bowl, man. Honestly, have a great time.

458
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 8: I'm a zoom of beat right now. We just passed

459
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 8: through uh Malibu and the pa Cific Coast Highway is

460
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 8: so beautiful.

461
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 5: I wish it were.

462
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: Enjoy it, man, Mike, have a great mind, have fun,

463
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 2: take care, Thank you, Yes, sir. One more Terrell, last one?

464
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: What's up man? Two quick things?

465
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 8: Yes, sir, Joe Thomas is in he didn't win anything either, true?

466
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 9: And I think I think I seen an interview with

467
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 9: with with War's set. It was it was about Aaron

468
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 9: Donald and they were saying and War's that was like, well,

469
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 9: who who do he? Who was he going against? So

470
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 9: Warsatt was saying he bought to win the Edisons, so

471
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 9: that let me know what should.

472
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 2: Be Yeah, yeah, I know. Willie is so respected by

473
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: others that played the game in the NFL, and I do.

474
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 2: As for for people that think the narrative is the

475
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: Bengals they didn't win enough, I think a great comparison

476
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: is Joe Thomas, who was great and into yeah, great,

477
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: great player but never won anything in Cleveland but still

478
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: a a an easy Hall of Famer. I think that's

479
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: a good comparison, right.

480
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 9: I appreciate it, Gay, Yes, thank you.

481
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: Appreciate you.

482
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. Also, what I was on the phone talking to

483
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 4: to Terrell when you were talking about the defensive player

484
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 4: to score, Yeah, I almost actually I believe I hit

485
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 4: Cooper Cup last year he had to pick six. Oh yeah,

486
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 4: and I had or not Cooper Cup, Cooper Dejene with

487
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 4: the Eagles, and I had Cooper Degene to win Super

488
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 4: Bowl MVP.

489
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: Ooh.

490
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 4: And I thought for sure that I was going to

491
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 4: cash in on that bad boy. And then the Chiefs

492
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 4: were just awful and couldn't score and the Eagles just

493
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 4: poured it on and ended up going.

494
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: To hurt and taking Dejene. Did you take a defensive

495
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 2: player scoring a touchdown?

496
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 4: Yes?

497
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 2: Okay, at least you hit on that. Yeah.

498
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 6: Uh.

499
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 2: Bob man Jean mentioned earlier Lindsay Vaughan a week ago

500
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: today tore her ACL ruptured earlier today, She's scheme in

501
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: the Olympics.

502
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 3: Crazy.

503
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: How does that happen? Bob Mangen will help us from

504
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: UC and novacare next on the SBN fifteen to thirty

505
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Sports Station.

506
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: From the Court to the Cage, the Diamond to the Dome.

507
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: He brings the heat Moegar today at three pm on

508
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: ESPN fifteen thirty.

509
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 4: Well, the Holidays evolves.

510
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: You're listening to Tony Pike since E three sixty on

511
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: ESPN fifteen.

512
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 10: Thirty welcome back our three rolling along since E three

513
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 10: sixty a Friday afternoon on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.

514
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,239
Speaker 2: Each Friday, we have the opportunity to spend time with

515
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: our guy from Nova Care and the University of Cincinnati,

516
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 2: Bob Manjean joining us right now.

517
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 3: Bob.

518
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: What's going on on Tony?

519
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 5: Just trying to survive a snowy day in Cincinnati.

520
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of those. Luckily, you guys aren't

521
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: worried about having to take a trip anywhere. You play

522
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: at home on Sunday against UCF, so a couple home

523
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 2: days here. What I did want to ask, we're getting

524
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: the opening ceremonies of the Olympics happening today in Milan,

525
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: but some of the events have already started, and some

526
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: of the training events have already started. And one that

527
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: happened a couple hours ago revolved around Lindsay Vonn, the

528
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: forty one year old who is coming back from one

529
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: week ago tearing her ACL. She is still competing. And

530
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: what I thought was even more remarkable about this is

531
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: her event, the women's downhill. It feels like that's an

532
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: event that's going to put a lot of pressure on

533
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: the lower body. So let's just start with the how

534
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 2: one week after tearing an ACL, how is Lindsay Vaughn

535
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: still able to compete in the Olympics.

536
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: Years ago, we did a study when I was at

537
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 5: a company called since A Sports Medicine, and we looked

538
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 5: really closely at kids that tore their acls and what

539
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 5: percent needed surgery, what percent didn't need surgery. And you know, again,

540
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 5: there is a small population of athletes who tear the ACL,

541
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 5: but they're genetically gifted enough with excellent quad control, excellent

542
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: hamstring control, good balance that you could try to survive

543
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 5: participating in sports. The other thing I want to say is,

544
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 5: you know, when people get their knees injured, a lot

545
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 5: of them don't go to the er, they don't go

546
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 5: to their doctor, and they end up discovering that they

547
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 5: toured their ACL sometime later. So when we did an

548
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 5: initial study on that, we've found in four percent of

549
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 5: the people who tour the acls, we're able to continue

550
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 5: to participate even without the ACL and not even known

551
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 5: about it and not picking it up till they went

552
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 5: through some sort of screening, either at a college level

553
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 5: program or an NFL level program. So again, it's not

554
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 5: completely impossible to participate without an ACL. The other thing

555
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 5: is Lindsay Bondsman throw a lot. She's had multiple knee injuries,

556
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 5: She's been rehabbed multiple times. She has a good idea

557
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 5: of what her can withstand. So when you get an

558
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 5: older athlete who you know has been through multiple sessions

559
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 5: of physcotherapy, way training getting back to a high level

560
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 5: of complete, you know, they sort of have an idea

561
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 5: of what, you know, what they're capable of doing and

562
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,239
Speaker 5: what they're not capable of doing. And again, like we

563
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 5: talk about every week, we're not one hundred percent you're

564
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 5: exactly you know, in her case, what's wrong with their knee,

565
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 5: we're only guessing that. You know, she has an isolated

566
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 5: terror to r ACL, But again, you know there are

567
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 5: other complex issues that kind occur if you have a

568
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 5: re injury or injuries that occur with the ACL that

569
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 5: you try to push through. So you know, I had

570
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 5: a one of my kids played football and he survived

571
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 5: the season without an ACL, but again it was you know,

572
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 5: very protected through the whole season.

573
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: Well, what I think is interesting is she took to

574
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: social media and actually explained and gave some details about

575
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: the severity because people are wondering what was the what

576
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: was the state of the ACL before the injury, how

577
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: how much percentage is it ruptured? She confirmed that it

578
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: was a fully functioning ACL until last week and that

579
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: it is one hundred percent ruptured, not eighty percent, not

580
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: fifty percent, it's one hundred percent gone. So knowing that,

581
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,239
Speaker 2: what other risk is she taking on and competing at

582
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: the Olympics just a week later.

583
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 5: Well, when you look at the literature on that, you know, again,

584
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 5: I she can be very successful. She's a high level,

585
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 5: skilled compete athlete. She's I'm sure she's undergoing you know, extensively.

586
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 5: We have right now by you know, the staff with

587
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 5: US Skiing and their physical therapy staff. And again there

588
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 5: are studies out there that say you can survive and

589
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 5: compete without an ACL. Your biggest concern is in repeat

590
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 5: injuries and you tear a miniscus, then all of a sudden,

591
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 5: your knee starts to decompensate and you start to have

592
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 5: more issues. So you know, again only knowing that she's

593
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 5: got a quote unquote fully toward ACL and potentially everything

594
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 5: else was fine. But you know, there was no comment

595
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 5: on any other structure. So I think that at this point,

596
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 5: the assumption is that you know, for the Olympics, which

597
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 5: is a two week time period, you know, you can

598
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 5: try your best to you know, become prepared to participate

599
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 5: in that activity, and if you have a repeat injury,

600
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 5: you're going to suffer the consequences. I think it was

601
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 5: about eight years ago there was a quarterback at the

602
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 5: NCAA level towards ACL kind of toward the end of

603
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 5: the season, great season going on. So this university, which

604
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 5: was at that point of power five university, decided to

605
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 5: have the athlete continue to participate, and in the very

606
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 5: next game, he you know, tore his latterminiscus and some

607
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 5: other structures and the next thing, you know, it went

608
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 5: from just an ACL to something more complicated. So you

609
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 5: can always test quote unquote the me and make sure

610
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 5: that it's found enough to participate within you know, within

611
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 5: the compete level that you're at, or within the time

612
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 5: period where you're at. And so I mean again, she's

613
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 5: a high level athlete, highly trained, highly motivated, and for

614
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 5: a two week period, I'd certainly give it a shot

615
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 5: without surgical intervention. And I'd certainly give it a shot,

616
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 5: which is you know, rehaving her really hard, especially her

617
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 5: balance control, her coactivation as we call it, core body control.

618
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 5: And again these are things that she's probably like trained

619
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 5: at a high, high, high level. So you know, I

620
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 5: don't I think there's probably minimal risk for her at

621
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 5: this point.

622
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean we're talking about a chance to

623
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: compete in the Olympics. It happens once every four years,

624
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: and for Lindsay Vaughan forty one years old, it's it's

625
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 2: your last Olympics'. You've worked to this, You're going to

626
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: try everything possible to do it. So I think you

627
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 2: take can do account her age what the events are

628
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: and things like that, as opposed to let's say, if

629
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: it's a player on UC's basketball team or a player

630
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: doing a different sport where they're younger, you know they

631
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: they've got a lot more time to play in front

632
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: of them. Then you're gonna have different conversations about, Okay,

633
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: is it best to push through it, or is it

634
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: best to get this fixed or to rest all of

635
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: those things coming to the equation. But I think you

636
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: look at the time and place of a forty one

637
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: year old athlete in our last Olympics, go try everything

638
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: you possibly can to get that job done as opposed

639
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: to you know, someone in their early twenties that has

640
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: a lot of sports still ahead of them. Yeah.

641
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 5: I mean you played with an athlete here one time

642
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 5: that he tours ACL against Miami of Ohio and you know,

643
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 5: obviously I can't say the name and we get a

644
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 5: reconstruction on them. And you were around when we played

645
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 5: in the International Bowl, and you know, twelve weeks later,

646
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 5: actually eleven weeks from six days he played in the INTERNETSSABLE.

647
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 5: So there are people out there that I kind of

648
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 5: call genetic freaks who can have injuries and who can

649
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 5: come back and participate maybe early. Who was it Terrell

650
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 5: not maybe Terrell Owens who tours ACL and came back

651
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 5: early and had a little bit of a complication. But again,

652
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 5: you know, if you tear your ACL and you're a

653
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 5: listener out there and you've had a knee injury, you

654
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 5: need to get into and be evaluated with rehabby you know,

655
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 5: a physiotherapist who's experienced with knees, experienced with the dynamic

656
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 5: balance that the knee requires before you go back and

657
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 5: try to play. Just don't go to your document and say, hey,

658
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 5: you tore your ACL and thinking that well, Lindsey Vonn

659
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 5: can go back and see I can go back and

660
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 5: play basketball. You need to have that evaluated to see

661
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 5: your muscle strength, your dynamic balance, your core strength, and

662
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 5: correct any deficits you had before you would give it

663
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 5: a try. And certainly there is a small population, small

664
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 5: percentage in my mind, who can just go about and

665
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 5: continue to compete or participate and not have much problem.

666
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 5: But if you do have that second problem, you can

667
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 5: go downhill with our tritic changes pretty quickly.

668
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just again the risk reward and we could

669
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 2: essentially tie this to any conversation that we have right

670
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,959
Speaker 2: of do you play to arrest? How do those things look?

671
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 2: I just think it's fascinating to think of an athlete

672
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: at forty one years old in her final Olympics in

673
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 2: a week out, tears her ACL and still able to compete.

674
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: It's very impressive. And again that stuff doesn't happen without

675
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: her ability to get it done, but also at the

676
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: same time the training staff around her to give her

677
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 2: body an opportunity to go compete as well.

678
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 5: Absolutely, you have to have really, really people who understand

679
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 5: the injury, the mechanism, the sport, that's are participating in

680
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 5: and then design your pro grammar around all that.

681
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: Bob man Jean, University of Cincinnati and Novacare, you're the best, Bob.

682
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: Enjoy the weekend, get a win on Sunday, and I

683
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: look forward to talking again next week.

684
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 5: Okay, Tony, I have a good weekend as always, stay

685
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 5: you know, stay warm, and make sure you having me

686
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 5: snowtires on.

687
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: That's it. That's it, Bob Manjean, University of Cincinnati and Novacare.

688
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: When it comes to your physical wellbeing, you want a

689
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: physical therapist you can trust. That's Novercare Rehabilitation. Novacare has

690
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: been the exclusive physical therapy and athletic training provider to

691
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: the Bearcats for over twenty years. Go to novacare dot

692
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: com to request an appointment today. The Bearcats trust Novacare,

693
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 2: So can you talk? I'm sorry not talkbacks. Quick kits

694
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 2: to finish up this edition of Sincey three to sixty

695
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: next on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. Now it's

696
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 2: time for.

697
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: Quick hits on Tony tikes since the three sixteen.

698
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: Looking for that Moe is joining us right now. Since

699
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: he three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Day. So

700
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: of course the Mowegger Show comes up in just a

701
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: few moments, three to six. Right here, MO, what's going on?

702
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 11: Fellas, how are we doing? What's going on? How are

703
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 11: you guys? Lamar right, I'm doing all right? Everything good? Yeah, yeah,

704
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 11: I will.

705
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: I want to get to your show in just a moment. Obviously,

706
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about last night. Last night

707
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: felt different in a lot of ways, and I had

708
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: this conversation with a couple different people, like there have

709
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: been there have been coaches at U see quite honestly, Mo,

710
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: that leave and you're like, all right, good Rittans, move

711
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: on and let's get the next one. A lot of

712
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: people felt that way when Brian Kelly left. People felt

713
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: that way with Butch Jones, a lot of people felt

714
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: that way with Tommy Tubberville. The conversations I had last

715
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: white and last night. I won't feel that way with

716
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: Wes Miller because I genuinely feel like he's trying to

717
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: put the work in, and after last night, I genuinely

718
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 2: think he cares about the results, and he cares about

719
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: the University of Cincinnati. That can be true, but it

720
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: also can be true that it just seems like in

721
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 2: a conference like the Big Twelve, the top of college basketball,

722
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: feels like from a coaching standpoint, he's in overshead a

723
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: little bit.

724
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 11: This is a results oriented business. I didn't need last

725
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 11: night for me to believe that Wes has poured his

726
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 11: heart and soul into this job. Sure, but the results

727
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 11: aren't there. And we're going to talk about this today.

728
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 11: But I thought the postgame radio and the interaction with

729
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 11: fans outside the locker room, I thought those were very

730
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,479
Speaker 11: human moments. And I know there's a lot of folks

731
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 11: who don't want to hear that. You know, you talked

732
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 11: about all the coaches who have left. From a basketball perspective,

733
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 11: this is going to be the first. If we assume

734
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 11: that the school is going to move on from Wes,

735
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 11: and I think right now that's a fair assumption. This

736
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 11: is going to be the first one that is motivated

737
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 11: solely by on court results. You know, there's no off

738
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 11: court issue. There's no academic issue, there's no cheating issue.

739
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 11: He hasn't brought embarrassment to the program by his off

740
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 11: court behavior. There's been no player mistreatment, and no laws

741
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 11: have been broken. There's been none of that. It's it's

742
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 11: simply he's been given five years to achieve certain results

743
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 11: and he hasn't, and so is this is treated differently.

744
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 11: And I think also, like you know, the end of

745
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 11: the Tubberville regime kind of felt this way, but we

746
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 11: haven't gone through this like lame duck dead man walking

747
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:28,479
Speaker 11: thing before. Look, man, maybe they come out of left

748
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 11: field and go on a run and he saves his job.

749
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 11: And I think right now, everybody who follows the program

750
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 11: and cares about the program expects there to be change.

751
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 3: At the end of the season.

752
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 11: That is a conclusion that I think people arrived at

753
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 11: well before last night. And so there's been just this

754
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 11: weird sort of everybody playing their role, not necessarily going

755
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 11: through the motions, but everybody's sort of existing understanding that

756
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 11: when this is over, when this season ends, as a

757
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 11: very strong likelihood of a change. And that's it's not

758
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 11: that's not comfortable for everybody. It's why it's fair to ask,

759
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 11: and we're going to talk about this today. It's why

760
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 11: it is fair to ask, if the decision has been

761
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 11: made to move on, do you go ahead and just.

762
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: Do it now?

763
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 4: Sure?

764
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 11: But yeah, look, I hope Wes has a Travis Steele

765
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 11: sort of resurgence somewhere. There's no reason for me or

766
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 11: anybody else to root against him. He has tried, he

767
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 11: has cared, he has put in the effort.

768
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, players like him.

769
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 3: Yes, you're judged on results.

770
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 11: The results aren't there, and after a long period of

771
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 11: time of the results not being there, you start to

772
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 11: look for somebody else.

773
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: What else you got coming up on the show today?

774
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 3: Well, I guess a couple of things.

775
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 11: First of all, Austin, have you bought your your your

776
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 11: new Big ten hoodie T shirt?

777
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 5: Like?

778
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 3: How many of those are you get to buy?

779
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: That is?

780
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 4: So that's just important? Stupid?

781
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 11: What a cool idea you haven't well as a fan

782
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 11: of a Big ten program. And for those who who

783
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 11: haven't seen, the Big Ten is now selling championship Trifected

784
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 11: t shirts with the Big ten logo and it says

785
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 11: Trifecta and then underneath are the logos of Michigan, which

786
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 11: won the title two years ago, with.

787
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 3: Which one. I don't see an asterisk on the T shirt.

788
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 4: No, there should be, but there is. There isn't on

789
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 4: the shirt, but there I know there isn't on the shirt,

790
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 4: but just so we all know, there is an asterisk

791
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 4: next to their tear not on the shirt, I said,

792
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 4: but just in general, it doesn't have on Wikipedia. That's fine.

793
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 4: You guys can choose not to see it, or you

794
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 4: can choose not to acknowledge it. That's fine.

795
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 3: I acknowledge what's out there. I acknowledge like concrete things.

796
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 11: If there was an asterisk, I would acknowledge that, right,

797
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 11: Like I mean, if you want to believe it's tainted,

798
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 11: that's fine.

799
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 4: But but there's no asterisks, right. If you want to

800
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 4: believe it's not, then that's fine as well.

801
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 3: So anyway, have you bought the T shirt yet?

802
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 4: No, I have been. I've had this for as long

803
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 4: as I can remember, both on the air and off

804
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 4: the air. I don't root for my conference. I was

805
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 4: rooting against Indiana in the Big in the National Championship game.

806
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 4: I think that is so stupid. I would never root

807
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 4: for the Steelers or the Ravens or the Browns. I'm

808
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 4: certainly not gonna root for anybody in my conference, and

809
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: so I'm sure as hell im not gonna wear a

810
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 4: shirt with the other two schools on.

811
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 11: All right, we're on the same Yeah, I'm great. So

812
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 11: it's Friday afternoon, you're good.

813
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 4: I'm great, right. That cheating thing makes me mad and

814
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 4: almost you know, I just hate those people. Go ahead.

815
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 11: Also, I'm doing the show from home today, really and yeah,

816
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 11: so I'm not I'm not in the building, but I

817
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 11: got the memo from our boss?

818
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: What is going on there?

819
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: Did I miss another memo?

820
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 5: Oh?

821
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you do, boss, and forgot.

822
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 3: It.

823
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 11: It reminds employees to do the following. Please put dishes

824
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 11: in the sink. Please clean up after your spills. If

825
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 11: something explodes or leaks in the microwave, that's the same

826
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 11: as a spill.

827
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 3: What is going on there?

828
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: Why can I.

829
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: Have no idea?

830
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 11: That's a that's an entirely different issue. But this is

831
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 11: the workplace we've chosen, mont, I want to know from

832
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 11: my audience today. Are we the only workplace where our boss,

833
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 11: a high level media executive, has to send a memo

834
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 11: to a place that is inhabited by adults. It's not

835
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 11: a preschool, and and he literally has to take time

836
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 11: out of his day making important decisions asking the employees

837
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 11: to clean up spills and put their dishes in the sink.

838
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: What is going on at iHeartMedia?

839
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, I don't see mo in the

840
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 4: kitchen very often, and I think that's by design. Mode

841
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 4: purposely stays out of there, but it is it can

842
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 4: be bad.

843
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: The list of people that I know that that congregate

844
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: to the kitchen quite something.

845
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 4: We talked earlier in the show that we have people

846
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 4: we work with that don't wash their hands, and we'll

847
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 4: we give you an excuse for why they don't wash

848
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 4: your hands wash their hands, and that I think is

849
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 4: reflective of the mentality of people who don't clean up

850
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 4: after themselves in the kitchen.

851
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 11: And by the way, for what it's worth, Tony, I

852
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 11: don't know if you're a part of this, but Austin

853
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 11: and I have a little bit of a like an understanding.

854
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 11: If you're in the bathroom and you see another one

855
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 11: of your employees, your coworkers, who's not washing their hands.

856
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: We have a duty to tell each other.

857
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 11: Yeah, Like we won't rat them out to everybody, but

858
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 11: we'll write them out to each other.

859
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 2: Yes.

860
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 11: So like, there's a list of folks we work with

861
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 11: that I am fist bump only with. But I want

862
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 11: to know if other workplaces have the boss have to

863
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 11: remind people to put dishes in the sink and clean

864
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 11: up your spills.

865
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 4: And what's funny enough about it is that other people

866
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 4: that many of the people that have cleaned up the

867
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 4: kitchen in the past have put notes up there for others.

868
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 4: There sis in there already, yes, and people ignore them.

869
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 11: Let's be honest. It ain't like we have four hundred employees,

870
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 11: you know. It's It's not like you can hide in numbers.

871
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 11: There's only a handful of folks that are working there

872
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 11: at any one time. It shouldn't be hard to figure

873
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 11: out who's not cleaning up their spills. Maybe we'll out

874
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 11: some of those folks. Pro Football Hall of Fame voting

875
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Speaker 11: went down last night. Maybe now more people look at

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Speaker 11: the Hall of Fame the way I do. Are Arizona

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Speaker 11: fans picking fights with Miami fans? Wes Miller's Human Moment

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Speaker 11: anywhere from five to seven bets to make on the

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Speaker 11: Super Bowl and a REDS based wager that I absolutely love,

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Speaker 11: No that, and so much more between three and six.

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Speaker 2: It has to be next mo, have a great show,

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Speaker 2: have a great weekend.

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Speaker 3: Clean up your own spill on your own gas.

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Speaker 2: I got to go. Request to get back in the

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Speaker 2: company email for the third time this week. Awesome Moager's

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Speaker 2: next DSBN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Have a great weekend.

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Speaker 2: We'll do it again on Monday.