Speaker 1: Do you want to be in a med Yeah, I am
Speaker 1: sick for the pup baby, sick for the one o'clock
Speaker 1: today women go eh Men beat Sweden to one in overtime. Fantastic, fantastic.
Speaker 1: All right, Scott's throwing back with you. Hope you're doing well.
Speaker 1: Back half of the week upon us here on this
Speaker 1: Thursday morning. If you have a kid, maybe a grandkid,
Speaker 1: maybe a nephew and niece, they play high school sports
Speaker 1: in Ohio, a new law could block them from making
Speaker 1: money off their talent. So lawmakers are working on legislation
Speaker 1: to prevent Ohio high school student athletes from earning name, image,
Speaker 1: likeness NIL compensation. Some of the key points real quick
Speaker 1: here Ohio, we are one of forty five states that
Speaker 1: allows some form of high school NIL. And the way
Speaker 1: the new proposal would work if passed in the law
Speaker 1: is a student earning compensation from an NIL deal would
Speaker 1: lose eligibility in that specific sport, but remain eligible another.
Speaker 1: So if you're a multi sport athlete, if I don't know,
Speaker 1: you get some NIL endorsement for football, you're no longer
Speaker 1: eligible for playing that sport. We had testimony from Steve
Speaker 1: Speck who is a coach at Dea Xavier, and Jonathan Cooper,
Speaker 1: superintendent Mason High School, testifying as proposed the bill, are
Speaker 1: concerned about pay to play, the culture, and also team cohesion.
Speaker 1: Joining the show is the co sponsor of this piece
Speaker 1: of legislation. That would be the esteemed Representative Adam Byrd
Speaker 1: out of New Richmond. This morning on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 2: How are you, Tony. It's great to be with you.
Speaker 2: We've had a busy week in Columbus this week, but
Speaker 2: it's an honor to serve the people of southern Ohio.
Speaker 1: Okay. So I look at this, and you know I'm
Speaker 1: more at libertarian, so I'll disagree somewhat. I push back
Speaker 1: on this, but the Ohio High School Athletical Associates said, like,
Speaker 1: I think it's four hundred and forty seven members. Schools
Speaker 1: already voted for Nile with guardrail, so why override that
Speaker 1: decision the schools made themselves.
Speaker 2: Well that's a great point, but if you take a
Speaker 2: look deeper at the number, Sony, about fifty five percent
Speaker 2: of the schools voted yes, About forty five percent of
Speaker 2: the schools voted no or abstained. And I have it
Speaker 2: on good authority with conversations that many people that voted
Speaker 2: guests didn't really want to. They held their nose and
Speaker 2: they did it because OHSAA was asking them to, and
Speaker 2: they were OHSAA is asking them to do this because
Speaker 2: of one judge in Franklin County that issued a temporary
Speaker 2: restraining order on a judgment on a kid from Dayton.
Speaker 2: So you know, it's I don't think that we should
Speaker 2: be sitting around making making decisions of this importance based
Speaker 2: on what one judge in Franklin County says.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I guess the current flame. Well, let me
Speaker 1: back up a second. We're one of forty five states
Speaker 1: that allow nil, some almost an entire country at this point.
Speaker 1: Are you concerned at all this with our student athletes
Speaker 1: at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to recruiting and
Speaker 1: visibility compared to other states.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good point on that, And I have two points
Speaker 2: on that. Number One, when you look at and I've
Speaker 2: done the research from the National Association of State Legislatures
Speaker 2: and those states that are allowing it, overwhelmingly, they are
Speaker 2: doing it because the athletic governing body has made that
Speaker 2: decision and not their state legislat so they stayed out
Speaker 2: of it, and I think that's a problem, and and
Speaker 2: you know, it's it. I think that we use that
Speaker 2: sometimes to make an argument for it. And then secondly,
Speaker 2: I've spoken to Ohio State University athletic director and they
Speaker 2: don't care about this. They don't think it hurts their recruiting.
Speaker 2: I suspect University of Cincinnati and Xavier think the same
Speaker 2: thing because they're international recruiters, they're national recruiters. They get
Speaker 2: five star recruits from California, Florida, Texas all the time.
Speaker 2: So if a if a kid were to leave the
Speaker 2: state of Ohio as a high school athlete to earn
Speaker 2: nil money elsewhere, Ohio State would still be able to
Speaker 2: recruit them and get them back here.
Speaker 1: Gotcha?
Speaker 2: Do they go?
Speaker 1: What does getting it right look like? I mean, it
Speaker 1: is a total ban really necessary on this, I mean,
Speaker 1: and as it also as it tended to be in permanent.
Speaker 1: Is this just a pause while more refined policies developed?
Speaker 1: And so what's the timeline? There A lot of elements
Speaker 1: to that question.
Speaker 2: Go ahead for sure, and so as far as the
Speaker 2: timeline of this bill goes, you know, we had a
Speaker 2: proponent testimony this week in Columbus next week. We'll hopefully
Speaker 2: I've gotten permission from the chair of the committee to
Speaker 2: have a few more proponent testimonies, but they'll also be
Speaker 2: opportunity next week for opponents of the bills to come
Speaker 2: and testify. And so, you know, my goal would be
Speaker 2: to have this in place for next school year. And
Speaker 2: as you know, whenever the governor signed a bill, it
Speaker 2: doesn't become law for ninety days. So I've got to
Speaker 2: get this done and all the way to the Governor's
Speaker 2: desk by June in order to get it done by
Speaker 2: next school year. So that's a tough timeline. It's a
Speaker 2: big lift, and I realized that. And also as far
Speaker 2: as the bill goes, can it be changed. Of course,
Speaker 2: it can be changed as part of the legislative process.
Speaker 2: Amendments happen all of the time, so we'll see how.
Speaker 1: That goes, okay, But this would be an outright ban
Speaker 1: on all of it too. And we've talked to the
Speaker 1: past about this representative bird. You know, the I guess
Speaker 1: critics and I'm on this side it as a as
Speaker 1: a student, don't you have a right? You're really you're
Speaker 1: basically overring a overwriting a right, students already legally have.
Speaker 1: You're rolling back an opportunity for minors to earn income
Speaker 1: if you're really, really good. I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: an artist, if you're a musician, if you are, I
Speaker 1: don't know, name a scale a kid has if you
Speaker 1: can monetize that, why just drawn on exception for sports
Speaker 1: as opposed to other ways or kids to earn money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 2: of issues here. And that's always a good question that
Speaker 2: you asked me on this, sony. And and so you
Speaker 2: know already you've got parents and students who are yelling
Speaker 2: at the coach demanding more time. You're you're you're costing
Speaker 2: my kid a scholarship because you're not playing them. Well,
Speaker 2: now they're going to add to that, you're costing my
Speaker 2: kid an nil deal because you're not putting my kid
Speaker 2: in the game. And uh. And so there's all clients
Speaker 2: that there's going to be all kinds of inequality and
Speaker 2: unfair advancedantage to the rich school versus the poor school.
Speaker 2: Who has you know, the businesses and wealthy alumni that
Speaker 2: can afford to give an il deals. You're going to
Speaker 2: have inequality when it comes to male female We've seen
Speaker 2: that already at the college level. You've got the star
Speaker 2: versus the average kid. And we're going to give the
Speaker 2: the quarterback a big deal. Why the offensive lineman protecting
Speaker 2: yet nothing? And then how about this lony. I talked
Speaker 2: yesterday in Columbus to a sports agent, a licensed sports
Speaker 2: agent in Ohio. These unscrupulous supports agents that are not
Speaker 2: licensed are already taking advantage of students by signing them
Speaker 2: to twenty percent deals that give the agent twenty percent
Speaker 2: of the nil money. So these kids are already going
Speaker 2: to get are already getting exploited by unscrupulous people.
Speaker 1: Well, how is someone charging to see for their services
Speaker 1: exploiting them? I mean, I can say the same thing
Speaker 1: about kids who work and have to pay taxes. I
Speaker 1: might have to now grated they don't, but I guess
Speaker 1: hire a tax professional because I don't know why do?
Speaker 1: It isn't the same, you know, it's a service you have.
Speaker 1: It's you're taking a percentage of their income, which is well,
Speaker 1: you know, welcome to the real world. That's how I
Speaker 1: would say. A lot of this is like, well, that's
Speaker 1: the real world working. They're that you know, some people
Speaker 1: are born with a skiller set and they get elevated
Speaker 1: above other people have to work in scrap. That's part
Speaker 1: of it, right.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not talking about the fact that they get
Speaker 2: a cut. I'm talking about the percentage twenty percent. As
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow what he thinks about twenty percent for his agent. Uh,
Speaker 2: there's no way NFL agents don't charge that much. It's
Speaker 2: like three, four or five percent. Sure, twenty percent is
Speaker 2: an outrageously exploitive amount for these sharky kinds of people
Speaker 2: that are out there hovering around kids.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, if that's the case, so why not just
Speaker 1: regulate it like you do other industries. You know, there's
Speaker 1: if you think, if you think twenty percent is confiscatory,
Speaker 1: and I mean trial attorneys which Adam, you're surrounded by them, legislature,
Speaker 1: they get thirty three percent? Is that fair?
Speaker 2: I see your point. I you know, I just I
Speaker 2: gave you reasons before why I think that that this
Speaker 2: is not that the best for kids. Uh, they're going
Speaker 2: to be exploited. And how about kids that will probably
Speaker 2: be exploited by their own parents on this money? You know,
Speaker 2: I got your you. Let's say I took you to
Speaker 2: the game. I'm going to siphon off some of this.
Speaker 2: You know, we have child labor laws in America for
Speaker 2: a reason because kids have been exploited for years, and
Speaker 2: I think they're going to get exploited in this way too,
Speaker 2: if a.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, So let's not talk about what
Speaker 1: you talk about parents exploiting kids for financial gain. There
Speaker 1: are kids who work on farms or kids who work
Speaker 1: in restaurants. What's the difference.
Speaker 2: Well, uh, you know that's part of part of the
Speaker 2: family heritage for sure. And uh, this is this is
Speaker 2: totally different. We're we're talking about destroying You've seen the
Speaker 2: direction that College Nil has taken that that game, and
Speaker 2: it is moving in the wrong direction. And we should
Speaker 2: learn from the mistakes of the past. And you know
Speaker 2: when you see things like the University of Cincinnati quarterback
Speaker 2: leaving Cincinnati to go to Texas deck not because of
Speaker 2: a certain program or better educational opportunity, but so that
Speaker 2: he can get a five and a half million dollar deal,
Speaker 2: which is, by the way, is more than Shaudur standards
Speaker 2: is going to make in its entire five years old
Speaker 2: with the Browns.
Speaker 1: Well, God bless America. If you can get that money,
Speaker 1: get that money, get that paper. I'm one hundred percent
Speaker 1: behind that. If you have a skill that no one
Speaker 1: else has and you can make money off it, it's
Speaker 1: your name, it's your image, of your likeness. I just
Speaker 1: don't see why that. You know, the argument in God
Speaker 1: Bless Them. I know Steve Speck at Saint x I
Speaker 1: was talking about this in this testimony that it may
Speaker 1: ruin team cohesion and a pay to play culture. But
Speaker 1: guess what that's outside that. I think that horse has
Speaker 1: already left the barn. Representative Adam Bird out of New
Speaker 1: Richmond in that parents are the ones responsible this because
Speaker 1: I mean, we we train, you know, look at you know,
Speaker 1: if you're a dad and you want your kid to
Speaker 1: be athlete, the next Joe Burrow, something like that, and
Speaker 1: then there's kids that want to be the next Joe Burr,
Speaker 1: probably more than dad wants them to be. They're gonna
Speaker 1: invest money. If you have the money in trainers, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have in coaches and clinics and all these things.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you're a kid who doesn't have
Speaker 1: the means you can if your family can't afford that. Yet,
Speaker 1: at the same time, it's it's like this whole thing
Speaker 1: is driven by that culture, the sports cluff. How the
Speaker 1: people who are testified against it get paid public money
Speaker 1: and bard to create these programs that cause that disparity
Speaker 1: in the first place. I mean there, their whole job
Speaker 1: is basically to arrange athletics, which used to be a
Speaker 1: way for kids to be engaged in school and maybe
Speaker 1: get out of the house and have an activity. And
Speaker 1: now it's you know, every parent thinks their kid is
Speaker 1: the next Joe Burrow or Lebron James, and that we
Speaker 1: know that to be the case, but you can't tell
Speaker 1: mom or dad that they have travel teams and everything else.
Speaker 1: Parents have created this culture because they've emphasized that that's
Speaker 1: really important in their lives.
Speaker 2: Well, again, we go back to the reason why these
Speaker 2: programs exist, why we spend public money on providing these programs.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the pay for coaches, which bind of way,
Speaker 2: is not that much. Most coaches are getting paid about
Speaker 2: two dollars an hour, and so we do that because
Speaker 2: it's an extension of the classroom. We want to teach
Speaker 2: them teamwork and character and discipline and communication and leadership
Speaker 2: and all of these things. Fitness and and so that's
Speaker 2: the reason it's an extension of the classroom. It takes
Speaker 2: you a better employee in the future, a better leader
Speaker 2: in the future, and that's the reason why we do that.
Speaker 2: And we have to protect the amateur status of these
Speaker 2: of these things. And if you want to go make
Speaker 2: money off of your your skills, then go to college
Speaker 2: a year early and earn inni ole money, go to
Speaker 2: the Olympics, go to a sports a professional sports league.
Speaker 2: And so I think it's really important that we protect you.
Speaker 1: I guess I just don't understand how that underbinds all
Speaker 1: this because, as I said, you know, you have kids
Speaker 1: from different economic backgrounds, kids that the haves and have nots,
Speaker 1: and that that's that's got a source of attention among
Speaker 1: kids as well. I think that's just part of well society.
Speaker 1: That's just part of assimilation to the society in it.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, did you play on a football or
Speaker 2: basketball team?
Speaker 1: No? No football, no basketball. I was baseball, hockey and
Speaker 1: basically just staying around by myself.
Speaker 2: Well there you go. I mean, so you have played
Speaker 2: on some team sports and you're going to create problems
Speaker 2: within that locker room. But when you have the star
Speaker 2: versus the average player, the average play. I mean, football
Speaker 2: is the greatest team sport ever imagine, And of course
Speaker 2: I would put hockey in there too, But but you're
Speaker 2: going to You're going to create problems in that locker room.
Speaker 2: You're going to dissolve team cohesion. It's going to be
Speaker 2: a mess. You're going to have kids who more playing
Speaker 2: time so that I can get.
Speaker 1: But don't you have that? But don't you have that
Speaker 1: now we're kids? Don't you have that?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Where kids are going for college scholarships? I mean, there
Speaker 1: are kids who are talented or are going to go
Speaker 1: on and play, and there's kids who are just like
Speaker 1: a bench farmers are crying out a lot like me.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, well, you're ready. That conflict's already built in,
Speaker 1: it's already there.
Speaker 2: And now you're going to make it worse. And so, yes,
Speaker 2: there are there are kids who want to play, they
Speaker 2: want an opportunity, and now you're going to be blaming
Speaker 2: the coach. Uh And who's going to want to do that,
Speaker 2: sloany who's going to want to go put up with
Speaker 2: that crap? You're already yelling at me because your kids
Speaker 2: not that good. But yet you're blaming me, and now
Speaker 2: you're blaming me that your kids not getting in IL money.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but again that's a culture parents helped create,
Speaker 1: schools leaned into it as well. Let's say it may
Speaker 1: make it worse, but them are the rules, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I got to protect our amateur system.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I think amateurism has gone out the
Speaker 1: window early. I mean, everything has. Everything's for sale now
Speaker 1: these days. And I think also too. You know, private schools,
Speaker 1: public schools already on an even footing and recruiting. Does
Speaker 1: this address that disparity because you know they're schools in
Speaker 1: the listening area. We know that they wind up going
Speaker 1: in kids from across the country to come to school there.
Speaker 1: They take care of mom and dad with jobs whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. And you know that's that's also exploitable, exploitative.
Speaker 1: Does it address that?
Speaker 2: Are you talking about high school kids? I'm talking about
Speaker 2: highchoolor college?
Speaker 1: I'm talking about how I'm talking about high schools.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that should not be happening. It is, and it's
Speaker 2: exactly right, That's what I'm talking about here. They're not
Speaker 2: allowed to do it, but yet they're doing it anyway.
Speaker 2: And so do you think that OHSAA, who's supposed to
Speaker 2: be governing the recruiting or monitoring the fact that recruiting
Speaker 2: is not supposed to happen. You think they're going to
Speaker 2: be able to now add nil and add that into
Speaker 2: their ability to police. I just don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't either. But it's like prohibition. We weren't able
Speaker 1: to enforce prohibition. Any time we ban something for a
Speaker 1: moral cause, and it's you know, you're just gonna have
Speaker 1: more black market. You're gonna make the problem worse. It's
Speaker 1: going to be you know, you think the twenty percent
Speaker 1: from an agent's kind of CD, imagine the backdoor deals
Speaker 1: that are going to get done that are getting done
Speaker 1: now or even prior to this whole thing. Isn't it
Speaker 1: going to make it worse?
Speaker 2: No? No, we're trying to protect what we have. And
Speaker 2: if you're a student who is so talented, okay, I'm
Speaker 2: okay if you go to another state, and apparently Ohio
Speaker 2: State University is okay with it too, because they know
Speaker 2: they can still recruit you back. And uh, you know,
Speaker 2: we're trying to protect what has been an awesome learning
Speaker 2: opportunity and growth opportunity. You know, schools are about a
Speaker 2: producing a workforce for business, the business community, growing kids
Speaker 2: so that they can be great and contributing members of
Speaker 2: our society here in America. And you're going to create
Speaker 2: winners and losers. You're going they're going to view it
Speaker 2: as a job, and you're going to create more inequality.
Speaker 2: And uh and and how about this, dy Uh it's
Speaker 2: exploitation of kids who shouldn't really even be allowed. They're
Speaker 2: not legally allowed to sign a contract without their parents.
Speaker 2: And this is this is a problem.
Speaker 1: All the parents would be the stewards of that. Again,
Speaker 1: you know, we we we should be allowed to make
Speaker 1: we no one's got the layers we open the show
Speaker 1: up with. No one really has the instruction of being
Speaker 1: the perfect parent. So I don't know if MO my
Speaker 1: dad are supervising. I guess I don't have a problem
Speaker 1: with that. I got to leave it at that. He
Speaker 1: is representative adm berta New Richmond. Always enjoy the conversation
Speaker 1: in the in the debate over this, and I know
Speaker 1: you're open mind enough to go, well, I want to
Speaker 1: hear from student athletes. I want to hear from other
Speaker 1: people besides those who are against us as well, and
Speaker 1: then formulate good legislation for the people, which I love.
Speaker 1: Adam all the best. Thanks for jumping on this morning.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks, And I also want to throw a shout
Speaker 2: out to my joint sponsor with me on this bill,
Speaker 2: Mike Odeo, So from Green Township on the west side
Speaker 2: of Hamilton County. He's doing a great job with this bill.
Speaker 2: And we're going to have opponent testimony in Columbus next
Speaker 2: week planning, so we'll see who shows up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well let's follow up after that. See maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it cause you to rethink some
Speaker 1: positions or reinforce them, so I know you you know
Speaker 1: you want to get it right. I appreciate that about you.
Speaker 1: Thanks again, buddy.
Speaker 2: It might also cause might also cause you to rethink.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm you know what, I wanted to change my
Speaker 1: opinion in my mind. Absolutely give me some evidence is
Speaker 1: to why it's so bad we need to do this,
Speaker 1: and yeah, sure I'm open my enough to do it.
Speaker 1: So it's awesome. I appreciate men. Thanks again. All Right,
Speaker 1: we gotta get a news update. I want to talk
Speaker 1: about this more after the break here. And maybe you
Speaker 1: don't have a dog in the hunt with your kid,
Speaker 1: or maybe you did at one point, or you know,
Speaker 1: it's such a polarizing issue. I just I guess I
Speaker 1: got some pushback, and I'll start with this, the idea
Speaker 1: that this destroys team cohesion. Didn't have time to really
Speaker 1: pick that apart, but I will after the break, and
Speaker 1: we'll get your calls and thoughts about this. Whether you
Speaker 1: should kids and their families be allowed to make these
Speaker 1: financial decisions engage in a contract in which they're compensated
Speaker 1: for the name, image, and likeness in high school sports.
Speaker 1: Simple question, but a complex issue. We'll get your calls
Speaker 1: in afternoons on seven hundred W