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Speaker 1: The talk station. It's eight six right now, fifty five

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Speaker 1: car Seed Talk Station. A very happy Friday Eve. Do

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Speaker 1: you call Thursday if you want, I prefer the former.

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Speaker 1: Coming to the bottom of the hour as always, I

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Speaker 1: heard media aviation expert Jay Rattliffe. But I am pleased

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Speaker 1: to welcome to the fifty five Carossee Morning show for

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Speaker 1: the first time, Judge Andrew King. You can find him

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Speaker 1: online at vote Andrew King dot com and you want

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Speaker 1: to do that because he is currently running for a

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Speaker 1: seat on the Ohio Supreme Court, challenging Democrat incumbent Jennifer Brunner.

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Speaker 1: Judge King, great to have you on the program this morning.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Well, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to observe right out of the gate.

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Speaker 1: I practice law for sixteen years and still have my

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Speaker 1: law degree, So I do understand the problems that a

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Speaker 1: judge has running for office no advisory opinions. It's how

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Speaker 1: difficult is it to keep your mouth shut and not

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Speaker 1: try to suggest how you would rule in any given

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Speaker 1: case because you're prohibited from doing that. Judge King.

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Speaker 2: At KKIMB a little bit imping and frustrat and around.

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Speaker 2: I mean as a judge, people bring you their issues,

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Speaker 2: their concerns and want you to tell them how this

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Speaker 2: should turn out. So yeah, when you're on another campaign,

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Speaker 2: there's sort of a well, hey, let me tell you,

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Speaker 2: But as you know, we don't do that. And it's

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Speaker 2: really primarily because you want every case to be decided

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Speaker 2: on the marriage, on the issues in front of it.

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Speaker 2: You don't want somebody who's going to do what we've

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Speaker 2: seen some of these judges do, right, say, well, if

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Speaker 2: it's the other party, if it's a president I don't

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Speaker 2: like or whatever, I'm going to roll a certain way

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Speaker 2: or I'm going to contort myself to get to a

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Speaker 2: certain outcome. So you know, I could be frustrating, but

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Speaker 2: I think on balance it helps ensure that we be judges,

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Speaker 2: not politicians. And roads well, and.

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Speaker 1: This is extremely important. Your point about some judges just

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Speaker 1: a question of whose ox is being gored to hell

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Speaker 1: they're going to rule in any given decision. You need

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Speaker 1: to be firm in your constitutional understanding. You need to

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Speaker 1: be an understand that you know this case in front

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Speaker 1: of me is going to go away that I personally

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Speaker 1: might not prefer, but because I am consistent and loyal

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Speaker 1: to the law, I must rule accordingly. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: a great position to spring from firm and convictions. And

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Speaker 1: you are a what I would call a constitutional conservative,

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Speaker 1: are you not.

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Speaker 2: That's right, That's exactly right. And as you probably know,

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Speaker 2: this is that being a constitutional conservative, at least in

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Speaker 2: my mind, is I mean to be sure my own

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Speaker 2: personal values. I'm a conservative of my own life and

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Speaker 2: on those values. But as a judge, I have to

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Speaker 2: apply the law the voters and legislators put in front

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Speaker 2: of me. But that means I apply the law. Right.

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Speaker 2: If it's a constitution, we're applying originalist type techniques. If

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Speaker 2: it's a statute, we're applying textualist type techniques. One. I

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Speaker 2: think that's just generally the better approach, But too it

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Speaker 2: has a separation of powers function right that we as

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Speaker 2: judges don't get to be super legislators or the super

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Speaker 2: governor and get to veto legislation we don't like. That's

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Speaker 2: not what we do. We say, you pick the words,

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Speaker 2: you put them on paper, you express what you want,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll apply it based on what you did,

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Speaker 2: not what we want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and quite often that requires sending things back to

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Speaker 1: the legislative brands because they didn't do it right. In

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Speaker 1: the first case, it's not constitutional. It falls outside the constitution.

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Speaker 1: But unlike an activist court might do, write an opinion

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Speaker 1: drafting legislation effectively and calling that law, you say, no,

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Speaker 1: your law is struck down because it's unconstitutional. It go

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Speaker 1: back to the drawing board and do it drawing board,

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Speaker 1: and do it right next time. I mean, that's a

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Speaker 1: tough function of judges who can often go the liberal

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Speaker 1: interpretation side of things, like I can use Roe v.

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Speaker 1: Weight as an example perfect illustration of legislative drafting. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court overturns it because look, there's nothing in

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Speaker 1: the constitution. You know, it's like articles or it's like

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Speaker 1: Article ten kind of stuff. If we don't have a

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Speaker 1: specific reserve power, it belongs to the states. You have

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Speaker 1: at it.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're exactly right. And I think that was

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Speaker 2: a just as silly as long stand position before the

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Speaker 2: Dobs case was you know, show me where it's the constitution.

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Speaker 2: It says this, and this goes back to what I

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Speaker 2: was sort of saying with the textual commitment is you know,

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Speaker 2: we all have principles and ideas and philosophies but the

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Speaker 2: words are what we as lawyers, we as judges, legislators,

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Speaker 2: the governor when they're choosing to veto something, or the president.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the words are what sort of governs us

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Speaker 2: and drives us? And we can't pretend like we can

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Speaker 2: it's otherwise, and we can look past that to get

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Speaker 2: to a predetermined outcome. So I think it helps sort

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Speaker 2: of keep everyone honest. And like you said, if it's hey,

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Speaker 2: the statue fell outside the constitution, well there's an iterative

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Speaker 2: process for that. It goes back to the General Assembly

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Speaker 2: and they can say, all right, well let's make it

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Speaker 2: more narrow statute and narrow the tailored whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll try again. And and you know, honest

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Speaker 2: think on balance that's okay, because what's the point of

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Speaker 2: a constitution if we as the people don't hurt some

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Speaker 2: rights beyond the reach of ordinary legislation. So you know

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Speaker 2: that sometimes that happens. Is not frequently as you might

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Speaker 2: imagine that you would know this as a lawyer. It's

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Speaker 2: not like every case is that a constitutional issue working

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Speaker 2: in there, But when they're there, I think you got

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Speaker 2: to call them, you know, a strike a strike.

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Speaker 1: And the ball of all the yes you do, and

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Speaker 1: I got to ask just I'll strongly encourage my listeners

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Speaker 1: go to vote. Andrew King dot com. Your your your

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Speaker 1: your legal background is unbelievably impressive. You're currently on the

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Speaker 1: Fifth District Court of Appeals. Hundreds of appellate pitt opinions

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Speaker 1: have been written by you. You were previously also on

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Speaker 1: the Seventh District Court of Appeals by assignment from the

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Speaker 1: High Supreme Court. Dedicated member of the Federalist Society. I

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Speaker 1: circled that right out of the Gate, Judge King, because

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Speaker 1: I remember I was in the Federal Society too. That's

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Speaker 1: for the folks who believe the Constitution means what it

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Speaker 1: says it is and its restrict adherence to these fundamental

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Speaker 1: constitutional principles. Uh, you got all kinds of your assistant

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Speaker 1: prosecutor to prosecute attorney in Delaware County. I could go

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Speaker 1: on and on, so check his background out. Obviously well

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Speaker 1: respected member of the legal community. And for my fellow

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Speaker 1: firearms owning friends and believers in the Second Amendment, I

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Speaker 1: see right out of the gate not only on your

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Speaker 1: website but also on the other materials. Proud member of

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Speaker 1: Right out of the Gate Buckeye Firearms and the how

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Speaker 1: Gun Collectors Association. I'm a member of the OGCA as

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Speaker 1: well and an NRA life member. You staunchly support the

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Speaker 1: Second Amendment. No advisory opinion in that judge, Can you

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Speaker 1: say it out loud, right up front?

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Speaker 2: Well, hey, it's in the constitution, right, It's an amendment.

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Speaker 2: It deserves respect. There was a long time I didn't

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Speaker 2: get it, and I'm proud to say I was endorsed

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Speaker 2: by High Rights to Life a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: But it was a couple of days ago, Ohio Buckeye

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Speaker 2: Firearms endorsed me. So I'm proud of that. As you

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Speaker 2: mentioned of firearms Owners've a COCHL holder for a long time,

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Speaker 2: and I'm you know, it's a right of equal magnitude

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Speaker 2: of importance. And as sometimes it said, it's the second Amendment,

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Speaker 2: is the one that protects all the others. So I

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Speaker 2: definitely think it's an important amendment.

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Speaker 1: Well, in the Second Amendment, Bruing case is another great

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Speaker 1: illustration of what you know, what the document, what the

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Speaker 1: Constitution actually means. What were the framers thinking when they

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Speaker 1: wrote the words down? That's what Bruin said, what it

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Speaker 1: existed at the time, not what we've come up with

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Speaker 1: down the road. That's completely different, and that takes the

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Speaker 1: Constitution out of what the framers had in mind when

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Speaker 1: they when they when they drafted it and and enacted

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Speaker 1: and adopted.

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Speaker 2: It exactly exactly. And I mean, you know, it's a

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Speaker 2: legislative process and a lot of things go into but

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, the words were chosen

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Speaker 2: to carry forward some meaning, some purpose. Everyone when they

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Speaker 2: looked at it had some common understanding of what that meant.

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Speaker 2: And we can't pretend otherwise. And for a long time,

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Speaker 2: I think there were folks that tried to pretend the

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Speaker 2: Second Amendment that something other than what the texts actually

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Speaker 2: said shall not be frankly, so yeah, I think that

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Speaker 2: words are always important.

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Speaker 1: I've had a real problem and a lot of my

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Speaker 1: listeners have as well. Here in Hamilton County, we are

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed with what I will characterize this is not your words,

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Speaker 1: Judge King, woke judges who don't believe in the point

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Speaker 1: of having a criminal justice system, which I would argue,

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Speaker 1: and as I learned in law school, includes a leg

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Speaker 1: that's important, which is you punish individuals for breaking the

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Speaker 1: law to serve as an illustration to others who might

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Speaker 1: go in the same direction that they too will suffer

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Speaker 1: the fate of others who've gone before them. It's also

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Speaker 1: to punish the individual for doing bad things also provide

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Speaker 1: some relief to family members who've been victims of crimes.

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Speaker 1: Multiple reasons there. I'm not even gonna bother suggesting you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get reformed in prison, because you know that doesn't

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Speaker 1: work out. But these judges don't seem to understand that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've looked to California where they decriminalize stealing.

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Speaker 1: Look what happens. Stealing becomes rampant. We don't prosecute young people.

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Speaker 1: Teenagers run amok in the city of Cincinnati. They're not

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Speaker 1: held accountable. The problem seems to get worse. Isn't it

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Speaker 1: not an important thing for of judges presiding over criminal

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Speaker 1: matters to actually meet out punishment when those individuals have

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Speaker 1: been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 2: Judge King, sure, I mean it's our general Assembly put

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Speaker 2: it right in there, sort of the overriding purposes of

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Speaker 2: of sentencing this incapacity offenders, rehability offenders, and punish offenders.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's right in there. So I think it's

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Speaker 2: absolutely true. And to your point about the judges taking

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Speaker 2: liberties with things in the criminal justice system. As you

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Speaker 2: well know that the Bow case for a few years

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Speaker 2: ago coming out of so then'hi there that all the

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Speaker 2: pre trial bond standards went away and you couldn't consider

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Speaker 2: not all, they couldn't consider the dangerousness of the person anymore.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you could have someone in for rape murder

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Speaker 2: and the judge now suddenly can't say, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're a danger to the community, you should stay in jail.

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Speaker 2: So inevitably, what happens those folks go out and they

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Speaker 2: were sent to me while they're habit carts hanging over them.

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Speaker 2: It was the craziest thing. And I'm glad the voters

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Speaker 2: the General Assembly fixed the Supreme Court's err on that.

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Speaker 1: So am I Judge King And finally for wed Hard

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Speaker 1: c Company again it's vote Andrew King dot com. How

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Speaker 1: difficult is it to be a judge? We have a

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Speaker 1: problem here in Hamilton Candy. There's a lot of judicial

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Speaker 1: spots open for the November election, but sadly no Republican candidates.

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Speaker 1: Now I understand the struggle in this very blue region

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Speaker 1: of the country, but they're not willing to run. And

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Speaker 1: I asked out loud from people in the know, is

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Speaker 1: it because people don't want to be a judge? And

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Speaker 1: the answer in many cases is yeah. You can't find

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Speaker 1: great lawyers that might be wonderful judges because they don't

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Speaker 1: want the pressure, in the stress at these modern times

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Speaker 1: bring down. You're going to be presiding over criminal matters,

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Speaker 1: maybe gang members in your court, maybe some very violent

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Speaker 1: evil people. We have social media, people are gonna doc you.

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Speaker 1: People are going to know who you are. You're an

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Speaker 1: elected official, for God's sake. Do you feel that pressure

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Speaker 1: as you're currently sitting on the Fifth District Court of

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Speaker 1: Appeals and do you have any concerns about that going forward?

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Speaker 1: Judge King?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a very real thing now at

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Speaker 2: the appellate level. I don't think it happens is often.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying it doesn't, is o ursonal instances of it.

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Speaker 2: The trial judges, definitely, they're the folks that are taking

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Speaker 2: people's liberties away. They're the ones sending people to jail

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Speaker 2: for long periods of time, and you know, unhappy divorces

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Speaker 2: and all those sorts of things. So they definitely see it.

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Speaker 2: And I think that there's been a general coursening and

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Speaker 2: that was sort of played out tragically with Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we've sort of seen this with a

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Speaker 2: cats on judges and public officials and not criticizing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think it's fair to criticize them, and I justicied

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court for what they did in devote, But

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Speaker 2: it's that next step, and I think that, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think that that's one of the things that does keep

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Speaker 2: people away from wanting to do this is because you

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Speaker 2: do there. I mean, I think you do this long enough,

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Speaker 2: you've got someone you're worried about, it's going to show

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Speaker 2: up in your driveway.

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Speaker 1: Well. I view it as something like some people sign

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Speaker 1: up to serve their country in military, knowing full well

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Speaker 1: that they're gonna be in placed in harm's way, and

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Speaker 1: yet they do it anyway. So I salute you j

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Speaker 1: Andrew King. Judge King, and your question for to become

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Speaker 1: a justice for the Supreme Court here in Ohio in

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Speaker 1: your effort to unseat Jennifer Brunner sounds to me like

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Speaker 1: a positive development. And I'll courage my listeners to help

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Speaker 1: you out by turning to your web page and see

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Speaker 1: that donate button up in the right hand corner. That

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Speaker 1: might help it's vote Andrew King dot com. Judge King,

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Speaker 1: it's been great having you on the show. Perhaps you

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Speaker 1: and I will talk again before the election in the fall.

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Speaker 2: I would join it.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome here on the fifty five KRC Morning Show.

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Speaker 1: I wish you the best of luck and a very

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Speaker 1: happy Easter to you and your