1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: It's night's time with Dan Ray. I'm telling you at 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Boston's Leech Radio, and. 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 2: That'd be saying Praderick's Day to you as well, Madison Rodgers. 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: That is for sure, as we celebrate the actual Saint 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: Patrick's Day, which of course is March seventeenth this year. 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 2: Because the parade was on Sunday the fifteenth, most people 7 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: thought that was the actual Some people thought that was 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: the actual celebration. We'll set them right. We will be 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: talking in the nine o'clock hour tonight with Boston Globe 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: travel columnist Christopher Muther, who, after traveling to many, many, 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 2: many many countries, made a stop in Ireland last September. 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 2: I wrote a peace about it in Sunday's Boston Globe. 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: Well timed as it was. We'll talk with Chris Muther 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: during the nine o'clock hour and later on tonight. We 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: will check in on a variety of topics, and we 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: certainly will keep you up dat on what's going on 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: in the Middle East. There was some activity tonight that 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: we want to talk about, and we'll get to all 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: of that, I promise. But first, my name is Dan Ray. 20 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: I am in studio tonight. We had a little bit 21 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 2: of a problem with electricity in my neck of the woods. 22 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: I know many of you did as well, and I 23 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: decided wasn't going to risk it. So I'm in studio. 24 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: Dan Cantano is in the control room. Rob Brooks continues 25 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 2: to take his week's vacation. And Dan did a great 26 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 2: job last night. He'll do another great job for us 27 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: tonight in this hour, no phone calls. It's an opportunity 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: for us to look at four topics in some depth 29 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: as much as an eight or nine minute interview can 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 2: get into debt, get into debt and anything. We're delighted 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: to be joined by Evan Stewart. He's an attorney, New 32 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: York attorney, graduate undergraduate Cornell and Cornell Law School, as 33 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 2: taught at Cornell Law School. Evan Stewart, Welcome to Nightside. 34 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: Always great to have another lawyer on Nightside. We have two, 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: You and me, go right ahead. We're going to talk 36 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: about one of my favorite topics, which is the Supreme Court. 37 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: And you have made note that there is a recent 38 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 2: poll which shows confidence in the U. S. Supreme Court 39 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 2: has dropped to a record low. Well, I guess they 40 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: can join the White House and the US Senate and 41 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: the House of Representatives tell us about the poll, who 42 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: was it, who conducted it, when was it conducted, and 43 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 2: what were its conclusions. 44 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 3: Well, that's that's polls really outside of my purview. Uh, 45 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: I'm not surprised at it. But I'm really the guy 46 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: who's published a book called the Worst Supreme Court Decisions Ever, 47 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 3: and so I've focused on probably one of the reasons 48 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: why the Court's ranking is so low. But I think 49 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 3: we live in it. We live in an era dan 50 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: where the Court has been under constant attack by politicians 51 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: of every stripe. Really just very unfortunate, where every major 52 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 3: decision is viewed as a political decision as opposed to 53 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 3: something that the justices are trying the very best to 54 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: come to the right decision. 55 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting, there have been some great fights in 56 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: recent times and in earlier times. The fight over Justice 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: Kavanaugh's nomination got really down in the gutter. And I 58 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: know that the fight over Clarence Thomas's nomination also generated 59 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: a lot of headlines unfortunately. And today John Roberts was interviewed, 60 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: I think it was an NPR and he said basically 61 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: that in his opinion, no way our judges who are 62 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: nominated and succeed to the court, in no way did 63 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: they carry forward any agenda of the president who appointed them. 64 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: I'll agree with him in part, and I'll dissent in part. 65 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: What is your take on roberts comments? And I do 66 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: want to get to the book as well, by the way, 67 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: because I'm I hope that I can pick up two 68 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: or three of those decisions that you have chronicles for us. 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 2: What do you think about Roberts's comments? 70 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 3: Well, I think Roberts is trying to pull us all 71 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: back from the kind of things that sort of we 72 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 3: were talking about just a minute ago, and that to 73 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 3: have people dial it back so one of the worst things, 74 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 3: in my view, in our current discourse. And you see 75 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 3: this in virtually every single newspaper article about any any 76 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 3: judicial decision, not just the Supreme Court. Every judge or 77 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 3: justice is identified by the person the president who appointed 78 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 3: him or her, as if we're getting Obama justice or 79 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 3: Clinton justice, or w Bush justice or Trump justice. And 80 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 3: this does a horrible thing for people, an ordinary citizens 81 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 3: perception of what the justice system's about. So what Roberts 82 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 3: is trying to do is pull us back from that. 83 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 3: And it's part of a broader attempt by Roberts, who 84 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 3: I think is really doing a very fine job as 85 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: Chief Justice to rebalance our three branches of government so 86 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: they're more evenly balanced as they should be, as the 87 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: founders wanted them to be. The Congress has basically given 88 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 3: over almost carte blanche authority to the President and the 89 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: executive branch, and Roberts's recent jurisprudence has really been to 90 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 3: cut that back. Toto say, Congress really has to do 91 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 3: its job and that the president and the executive agencies 92 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 3: do not have krk blanche, which I think again it's 93 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 3: a good thing. 94 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course the Court did that when Franklin 95 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: Roosevelt wanted to add a few members back in the 96 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: late thirties. Let's talk about the book. I assume dred 97 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: Scott and Plus versus Ferguson are prominent in your book. 98 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: I haven't read your book, so I making an. 99 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: Assumption, good assumption. They are number one and number two 100 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 3: in that order, and they really are too really just horrible, horrible, 101 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 3: horrible decisions. One of the reasons that I teach, and 102 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 3: that's what led to me writing the book, is because 103 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: those decisions are so horrible they're not really taught in 104 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: law schools anymore. No one wants to teach them. Everyone's 105 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 3: so ashamed of them that no one wants to even 106 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 3: try to explain to law students, let alone anyone studying 107 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 3: American history, how the Court could ever have come up 108 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: with those decisions. But they did. 109 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: But I also think that law students need to understand 110 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: those decisions and need to understand the context of those 111 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 2: decisions and how such horrible decisions could have been authored 112 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: by the Court. I don't no doubt about it. 113 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: So, for example, John Marshall Harlan one of my great heroes. 114 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: He is the one descending vote in plusy, and he 115 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: was the only justice sitting on the Court at that 116 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: point who'd ever owned slaves. But he dissented and said, famously, 117 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: the Constitution is color blind. Now that's the sentiment that 118 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 3: I think most Americans believe since the Civil War has 119 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: been the law of the land. But the Supreme Court 120 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 3: never really has adopted that position. That the closest it 121 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 3: came to that was in the so called Harvard Admissions 122 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 3: case from just a couple of years ago, which it 123 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: came almost to that point but exempted the service academies 124 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 3: from any kind of racial basis for taking into account 125 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 3: that in admissions policy. But that one hundred and fifty 126 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 3: years after the Supreme Court ruled, we are still struggling 127 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: with coming to grips with being a race neutral country. 128 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: Took long. It took a long time for plusy to 129 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: be overturned, obviously with Brown versus Board of Education. 130 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 3: Actually, technically Brown did not overturn PLUSY because Thurgood Marshall, 131 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 3: who argued the case as counsel for the NAACP later 132 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 3: Screme Court Justice, he argued on the basis of evidence 133 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: that the evidence was such that there was no separate 134 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 3: but equal, that the separate schools were in fact inferior schools, 135 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 3: and that was what really carried the day in the 136 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 3: Supreme Court. 137 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I understand that distinction. But obviously Plessy upheld 138 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: the concept of separate but the equal, which should have 139 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: upheld in the first place. Give us the title of 140 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: the book again, and we have a lot of lawyers 141 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: listen to this program. I'm sure we'll be interested in 142 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: reading it. The title is and when is and when 143 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 2: is it? Is it already out? 144 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 3: I assume yes, it's been after while the Worst Supreme 145 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 3: Court Decisions Comma Ever. Explanation point okay, And the point 146 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 3: is that the Court has made these numerous decisions over 147 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 3: the course of almost two hundred fifty years by justices 148 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 3: of every political persuasion, every back, every kind of background. 149 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: Is not one side versus the other side, or one 150 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 3: party versus the other party. And it's not that these 151 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 3: people were inherently evil. I mean, they were really trying 152 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 3: to do what they thought was albeit in retrospect or 153 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 3: even at the time wrong, but they were trying to 154 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 3: do what they thought was best, even though their decisions 155 00:09:58,679 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: were terribly wrong. 156 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 2: Well, it even proves that Supreme Court justices can get 157 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: it wrong every once in. 158 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 4: A while, as they're human. 159 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: Beings, and that that maybe is a good lesson for 160 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: any aspiring Supreme Court justices to learn and understand they 161 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: should they should. I so many aspiring Supreme Court justices 162 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: are familiar with the cases that that I quoted and 163 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 2: you wrote extensively about, but I think it would be 164 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: good for them to read the book as well. So 165 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: The Worst Supreme Court Decisions Comma Ever by Evan Stewart, 166 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 2: Professor Stewart, pleasure to have you on I really enjoyed 167 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: the conversation. It was the uh maybe the highlight of 168 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: my day to have an opportunity to chatter with you, 169 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: and I appreciate the opportunity. 170 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, sir. A pleasure to be with you. 171 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: All Right, when we get back here on night Side, 172 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 2: we're going to talk with Amy Leneker. She is a 173 00:10:54,120 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: former C suite executive, Fortune one hundred leadership advisor and 174 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: author of Cheers to Monday, The Surprisingly Simple Method to 175 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 2: Lead and Live with Less Stress and more. We'll be 176 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: talking with Amy Lenaker. 177 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 4: Well. 178 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: Later on, we're going to talk about March being Women's 179 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: History Month and highlighting how women are leading America's disaster 180 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: response operations. And we'll wrap it up at eight forty 181 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: five talking about millions more people may need to start 182 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 2: cholesterol lowering medications as young as in the thirties. We're 183 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 2: going to talk with the cardiologists from Tough Medical Center. 184 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, and I certainly want to know if 185 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 2: there is a danger with that, and I suspect, well 186 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: he will have the medical answers, so stay with us. 187 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: We will. We are broadcasting tonight from the night Side 188 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: Studios in Medford, Massachusetts, and I delighted to spend some 189 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: time in the company of Dan Cantano, our producer tonight 190 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 2: and I spend my producer Thursday night, Friday nights, last night, 191 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: and we'll be again tomorrow night. We'll take a quick 192 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: break here on Nightside, coming back right after these messages. 193 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ, Boston's news Radio. 194 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: Delighted to be joined by Amy Lennakreb. She's a former 195 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: C suite executive, she knows the business community, and we're 196 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: going to talk about a I guess it's called the 197 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: World Happiness Report. The United States ranks bottom in happiness, 198 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: yet seventy nine percent of work is say joy is 199 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: a non negotiable for best work performance. These are fairly 200 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: incongruent conclusions, Amy Lenarcrum. If you could reconcile them for us, 201 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 2: we'd appreciate it. 202 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 5: Yes, and Hello, it's so good to see you again. 203 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 5: It's to hear you again. It's been a while. 204 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 2: Right back at you, right back at you. 205 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 5: So the way that I reconcile these two things is 206 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 5: that they're actually not that different. So what the report 207 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 5: is saying is that folks are reporting low levels of happiness, 208 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 5: and what we found in our data is that over 209 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 5: three quarters of people say joy is essential at work. 210 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,119 Speaker 5: So essentially, folks are saying I'm not getting enough happiness 211 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 5: or joy in the workplace. 212 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: Well, I've got to tell you most of the people 213 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 2: who I know are in the seventy nine percent. And 214 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: there's things that are going on. Many companies are still 215 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: offloading human resource positions to companies overseas, and I don't 216 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 2: understand why they do that. I know they're going to 217 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 2: save a few bucks, but it's a waste of time 218 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: something they could be accomplished with someone's stateside who actually 219 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: understands the way the system works and having I can 220 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 2: speak to personal experience with this. I'm not going to, 221 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: but I could. One of the mistakes the companies are making, 222 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 2: and how do we get back people up in the 223 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: c suite who understand what we're talking about. 224 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 5: What we found, and I don't think this will surprise 225 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 5: you or anybody listening, was that the number one barrier 226 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 5: to work was an overwhelming workload. So that's where we start. 227 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 5: We start with actually providing a sustainable workload where people 228 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 5: don't go home at the end of the day feeling 229 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 5: completely exhausted and worn out. So that's the place to start. 230 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: Okay, so workload is fine. That means I assume that 231 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: the companies need to hire more people. Yep, and that 232 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: would be nice. I'm not sure we prepared to do that, 233 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: but but do you think that is a realistic expectation 234 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 2: in the coming days of AI and everything that we've 235 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: been through the last twenty years. 236 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 5: I think it's unlikely, which is why this joy issue 237 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 5: that we have right now is likely only going to 238 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 5: get worse, because when we look at what's getting in 239 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 5: the way, why are people reporting that they're feeling such 240 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 5: little joy at work? It's hard to ignore that workload 241 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 5: is the number one reason. 242 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: Why do you think that the titans of industry in America, 243 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: today's titans of industry understand that? And is there understanding 244 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: of what the workplace should be like and what the atmosphere. 245 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 6: Should be like? 246 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: Do you think it's really any different from the titans 247 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: of industry from one hundred years ago? I wasn't around 248 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, but I know George Washington was 249 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: present president and I wasn't around two hundred and fifty 250 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 2: years ago. 251 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 5: Go right ahead, yeah, yeah, But here's what I can't 252 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 5: speak to I think that for the vast majority of 253 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 5: organizations and the people in the organizations, they wake up 254 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 5: every day wanting to do a good job at work 255 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 5: and go home and to their families and friends and 256 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 5: feel like a good version of themselves. Are there a 257 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 5: few outliers, Sure, But what we've got right now is 258 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 5: this perfect storm of stress that's really making it hard 259 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 5: for people. And you brought up such a great point 260 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 5: at the beginning about just what's happening in the world, 261 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 5: So that stress alone, it's really hard to keep that 262 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 5: out of work because your stress goes with you wherever 263 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 5: you go. 264 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: It's a constant companion. Yes, Now does your book provide 265 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 2: Is your book basically a play by play of where 266 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: we are and how we got here? Or do you 267 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: provide some recommendations for the Titans of America's c suites 268 00:16:53,520 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: the current Titans to change direction, change course directions? 269 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 5: A little bit of both, But it's primarily future focused, 270 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 5: So there's a lot out there on how we got 271 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 5: where we were. What I'm interested in is how do 272 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,479 Speaker 5: we start conversations, how do we do something different to 273 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 5: get to a new place. There is some really striking 274 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 5: data about gen Z that we learned in our study, 275 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 5: and this might surprise you. So when you look at 276 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 5: gen Z, they are the most stressed out generation in 277 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 5: the workplace. They're also feeling stressed more negatively than other 278 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 5: generations in the workplace. So what we're doing is we're 279 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 5: setting ourselves up for a position where we're not going 280 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 5: to have the leaders that we need running organizations in 281 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 5: the future if we don't figure this out. 282 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole question about the stress by the younger 283 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: generations puzzles me. It's almost as if if they're really stressed, now, 284 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: way do they get married and have kids and try 285 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 2: to juggle the job and Little League games and all and. 286 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: School and all of that. 287 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 2: Uh, they're going to look back to the twenties and say, boy, 288 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: that was a great time. 289 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 5: Well, what's really interesting, too, is the sheer number of 290 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 5: people who say that they're considering leaving their career entirely. 291 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 5: So we found that sixty three percent of American workers 292 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 5: have either considered leaving their career due to stress or 293 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 5: are considering leaving their career. So jen V's feeling it 294 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 5: more strongly, but they're certainly not the only ones. 295 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 2: What generation Okay, what those who are lucky enough to 296 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: have for is what careers are they thinking of? They 297 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 2: are they thinking of becoming shepherds or something. 298 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 5: No, but I think what you're seeing, at least what 299 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 5: I believe we're seeing. 300 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 2: It's easy a little bit. You know that. 301 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 5: I hope, I do. 302 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 4: I do. 303 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 5: I remember this from November. I'm prepared. But what I 304 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 5: think we're seeing is, for the first time, people are saying, 305 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 5: if this is the cost, if this is the stress 306 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 5: of what it's going to take, do I want. 307 00:18:58,720 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 4: To give that? 308 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 5: Will to give that up? And we saw that a 309 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 5: vast number of people, so over sixty percent have said, 310 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 5: I'm going to stay in my job, but I'm not 311 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 5: willing to manage other people. It's not worth it for 312 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 5: me to have the stress to manage other people. So 313 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 5: we're starting to see in larger numbers folks are making 314 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 5: those decisions about what they do and don't want as 315 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 5: part of their daily life. 316 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk very quickly about the book. The book 317 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: the title Cheers to Monday, or as a friend of 318 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 2: mine calls it, Moan Day, the surprisingly simple method to 319 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 2: lead and live with less stress and more I assume 320 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 2: the book is out where can people get this. 321 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 5: Oh, thank you. Yes, it actually comes out next Tuesday, 322 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 5: and it's available everywhere books are. 323 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: Sold, and I assume also on Amazon, right of course. 324 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 325 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 2: Well I never take it for granted because I want it. 326 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 5: Oh that's true. 327 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 2: I want our interviews to basically provide information to my listeners, 328 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: not only while we're talking, but afterwards when they buy 329 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 2: the books. So thanks so much, Amy, keep us posted 330 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 2: as how the book does, and we'll have you back. 331 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 2: I'm sure. Thank you so much, so. 332 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 5: Good to talk to you. Have a great night, Okay, 333 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 5: you too. 334 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: Amy Leneker. The book Cheers Till Monday, The surprisingly Simple 335 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 2: Method to Lead and Live with less stress and more 336 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: I think I'm going to get that book, all right, 337 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 2: and we come back right after the news at the 338 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: bottom of the hour. March is Women's History Month, highlighting 339 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: how women are leading America's disaster response operations. We'll be 340 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 2: talking with Larissa Murray Marico, a veteran seventeen time Rubicon 341 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 2: deployment leader. We'll find out what this is all about 342 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: right after the news break at the bottom of the hour. 343 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 2: My name is Dan Ray, and you're listening to Nightside 344 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: and WBZ Boston's news radio. 345 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Ray Boston's news radio boy. 346 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: I think all of us know by now that March 347 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 2: is Women's History Month. We're delighted to be joined by 348 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 2: Larissa Murray's Marine Corps veteran and a seventeen time Team 349 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 2: Rubicon deployment leader. First, first of all, Larissa, I want 350 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 2: to thank you for your service. You did five years 351 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 2: in the Marines. If I'm not mistaken, I did. 352 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 4: I appreciate that. Dan, And at. 353 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: This time, particularly when we're at war, we need to understand, 354 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 2: whatever the politics might be perceived by some, that people 355 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 2: are putting themselves in the line of fire. And we've 356 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 2: lost thirteen military members in the last couple of weeks. 357 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: But when you left the Marine Corps, you committed to 358 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: an organization called Team Rubicon. And I must tell you 359 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: I do not know what Team Rubicon is. I think 360 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 2: I understand what it does, but I'd love to know 361 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 2: the backstory on Team Rubicon. How long has it been around? 362 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: Who were you a founder or was this an organization 363 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 2: that you yourself found? 364 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 4: Once you listen, No, I wish that I did. But 365 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 4: it was founded in twenty ten by a couple of 366 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 4: former Marines, and obviously you've been around for sixteen years. 367 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 4: But it's a veteran founded, veteran led humanitarian organization that 368 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 4: serves global communities before, during, and after crises and disasters. 369 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 2: So when you say global communities, we're talking around the world. 370 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 2: How many countries has Team Rubicon put their boots on 371 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: the ground in. 372 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been more than a dozen countries, and definitely 373 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 4: most of our operations have been domestic, but we have 374 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 4: done medical operations abroad as well. Yeah. 375 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 2: I have a friend of mine who actually responded I 376 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: think it was in the nineteen nineties American trying to 377 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 2: help people in Iran in the wake of an earthquake. 378 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: Of listeners. So you have been a deployment leader seventeen 379 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 2: times according to the bio that I have. I hope 380 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 2: I'm accurate on that. What's involved with being a Team 381 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: Rubicon deployment leader? Give us a sense of how many 382 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 2: folks are under your command and give us, you know, 383 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 2: bring it home to us here so we can understand 384 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 2: it at the most tangible level. 385 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, there's a lot that goes into planning and 386 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 4: operation before we ever get boots on the ground. But 387 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 4: we're lucky enough to have a lot of volunteer leaders 388 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 4: that work through that process pretty quickly to get boots 389 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 4: on the ground as quick as possible, sometimes within twenty 390 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 4: four hours of being asked to help. And then once 391 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 4: you get there, we follow the incident command structure, so 392 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 4: there is an incident commander on the ground and I 393 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 4: have sometimes served in that role. But then we also 394 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 4: have other command and general staff that are in charge 395 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 4: of deciding, you know, the work that we're going to do, 396 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 4: and the responsible for getting the right people and tools 397 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 4: to the locations to get that work done. And sometimes 398 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 4: we can have you know, anywhere from ten people on 399 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 4: the ground to one hundreds. 400 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 2: Okay, so what is the largest team that you have 401 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: been a part of. What would it be maybe an 402 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 2: incidence or an incident or a disaster that most of 403 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: us would remember. 404 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think after Hurricane Harvey we had several 405 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 4: different forward operating bases and we definitely had more than 406 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 4: one hundred people on the ground at the time or 407 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 4: at the same time during that response operation, which which 408 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 4: went on for months. 409 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: Now, how are you able to do that? I assume 410 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: that you are now that you're out of the Marines, 411 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: are work looking in some form of fashion. Do you 412 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 2: have to make sure I assume before you make the 413 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 2: commitment that you have the support of your employers, whether 414 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: it's you other members of the team. 415 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 6: Yeah. 416 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 4: Absolutely, So we are definitely a volunteer organization, and so 417 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 4: we have an incredible group of some pretty selfless servant 418 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 4: leaders out there. And you know, people are taking time off, 419 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 4: people are retired, some folks are unemployed. But people come 420 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 4: from all walks of life and make the time to 421 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 4: serve communities. 422 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 2: And need Where were you folks based. Are you based 423 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: in one locale or are you dispersed throughout the country. 424 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 4: So we have volunteers and volunteer leaders across the country. 425 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 4: So we try to have we try to build up 426 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 4: volunteer leader teams in different communities across the country so 427 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 4: that we can respond on the most local level possible 428 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 4: and respond as quick as possible. So hopefully well already 429 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 4: have people in the area, and then we'll bring in 430 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 4: additional people if needed. 431 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: So the organization is now how how old it's been 432 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: an operation, perhaps not at the level it's at now, 433 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: but from the moment it was formed. How long it 434 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 2: has Team Rubicon been around them? Just trying to get 435 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: this in my mind, so we can maybe induce some 436 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 2: of our listeners to reach out and become volunteers. 437 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I would love that. So we were founded 438 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 4: in twenty ten and the first deployment had eight people 439 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 4: on it and now we have over two hundred thousand volunteers. 440 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 4: And definitely when disasters strike, that's when we get the 441 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 4: most volunteer sign ups. You know, after Hurricane Harvey. We 442 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 4: had Before Hurricane Harvey, we had about thirty thousand volunteers 443 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 4: and then after that we had almost eighty thousand volunteers. 444 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 4: So people definitely see the need and raise their hand 445 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 4: during those times of need. But if you could, you know, 446 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 4: sign up now and get your training done beforehand to 447 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 4: be ready to go on deployment, that would be even better. 448 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: Now, before people are deployed, do they do their training locally? 449 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 2: I mean it's not as if they're being shipped off 450 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 2: to Camp Leonard Wood or turn facility. What is that? 451 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: What's involved in the training. I'm just trying to again 452 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 2: make people understand the level of commitment that they would 453 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: need to make. 454 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no boot camp required, So you actually don't 455 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 4: need to have any prior training to sign up to 456 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 4: be a volunteer. Once you sign up, there are a 457 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 4: lot of different virtual training opportunities and in person training opportunities, 458 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 4: and it really depends on you know, what you want 459 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 4: to do when you go out on an operation. Do 460 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 4: you want to be one of those field leaders. Do 461 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 4: you want to just be you know, a grunt doing 462 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 4: the manual labor, or do you want to be slinging 463 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 4: a chains, you know, taking down hazardous trees. And we 464 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 4: provide training for all of that within the organization, So 465 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 4: you don't need to have any training to sign up, 466 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 4: just the desire to serve. 467 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 2: And I assume no age limitation, either on the early 468 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 2: or the late stage of life. 469 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 4: No, No, absolutely not. I've been on deployments with a 470 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 4: volunteer who is eighteen years old and it was their 471 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 4: first time away from home. And I've been on a 472 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 4: deployment with somebody who was a retired orthopedic surgeon. So yep, 473 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 4: all ages, all walks of life. Like I said, just 474 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 4: have to have a desire to serve and there's a 475 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 4: place for you here. 476 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: Okay, So now the question we've been working to how 477 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: can folks get in touch with you or with Team 478 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 2: Rubicon is there a website give us the easiest way 479 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,719 Speaker 2: for people, hopefully with what their appetite and they're going 480 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 2: to be wanting to reach for their computer and get information. 481 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 4: Absolutely so they just need to go to TEAMARUBICANUSA dot 482 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 4: org and there you can find out more about our mission, 483 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 4: find out more about our organization. You can sign up 484 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 4: to be a volunteer, or you can donate. 485 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: Well, that's a big part of it as well. Maybe 486 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 2: some people don't have the ability or the flexibility of schedule, 487 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: but everybody can write a check, can't write a check, Larissa, 488 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed our conversation. I learned a lot about 489 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 2: Team Rubicon, and I'm hoping that some of my listeners, 490 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,239 Speaker 2: whatever vintage they may happen to be, will in some 491 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 2: ways support what you do because it seems like such 492 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 2: critical work. Thank you so much for joining us on 493 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: Night Side Tonight, Larissa Murray, a Marico, a veteran of 494 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 2: five years and a seventeen time Team Rubicon deployment leader. 495 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 2: Thank you for what you do both with the Marines 496 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: and with Team Rubicon. We'll talk again. 497 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Larissa, Thanks for having me. 498 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 6: Dan welcome. 499 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: All right, Final segment coming up tonight on the other 500 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: side of the break, we're going to talk about how 501 00:29:53,440 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 2: young is it safe and appropriate effective to start chrestoral 502 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: lowering medications. I'm going to talk with doctor Chris Klein. 503 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 2: He's a cardiologist that Toughs Medical Center just really right 504 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: around the corner from where we are in the Medford, 505 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: Massachusetts w b Z studios. My name is Dan Ray. 506 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: Back with doctor Chris Klin. Right after the break. 507 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on w Boston's News Radio. 508 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: Delighted to be joined by doctor Chris Klein. He's a 509 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: cardiologist that Toughs Medical Center just really up the street 510 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: and around the corner from our Medford studio. Doctor Klein, 511 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 2: welcome to Nightside man. 512 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 6: Thanks so much for asking me to be here. Well, 513 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 6: my pleasure. 514 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: Delighted to have you. Always love to have folks from 515 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 2: the medical community. We're so fortunate here in the Greater 516 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: Boston area to have all of these great doctors available 517 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: to talk. And you, as a cardiologist, obviously are concerned 518 00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: about younger people now finding a problem and potential heart 519 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: problems a little earlier than maybe in the past. And 520 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 2: as I understand that more young people as young as 521 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 2: the authorities are on cholesterol lowering medications. First of all, 522 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 2: is there any suggestion as to what is causing this 523 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: trend or has it always been there? 524 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 6: You know, Dan, I think it's probably always been there. 525 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 6: I think we're just much better at seeing it. You know, 526 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 6: the story of cholesterol and vaster of a disease is 527 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 6: not new. It started way back in you know, nineteen 528 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 6: twelve or nineteen thirteen, and I think we realized how 529 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 6: young it can affect our kids. It's a sad story. 530 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 6: But the Vietnam War helped us in one way, and 531 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 6: these poor kids would come back home, you know after 532 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 6: you know, after dying, and their autopsy showed that, even 533 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 6: at very young ages, some of them had significant plaquing 534 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 6: in their large vessels and in their coronary arteries. And 535 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 6: we knew at that point that cholesterol was just not 536 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 6: a disease of older people. That it started, it started 537 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 6: at a much younger age. So and I think we've 538 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 6: been Yeah, we've been more attentive. 539 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: So would would that sort of discovery of information which 540 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: might not have been available previously, Would that push you 541 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: as a doctor as a cause more to nature or nurture? 542 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 6: Boy, that is h. That's a great question, Dan, That's 543 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 6: always the that's always the conundrum, right, It's got to 544 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 6: be both of those. We know that because we genetically 545 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 6: test so many young people now and older people. You know, 546 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 6: there are families that have really high cholesterol levels, and 547 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 6: we know that we follow their genes in their in 548 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 6: their kids. Sometimes kids eight, ten, twelve years old have 549 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 6: very high cholesterol levels when they have that same gene problem. 550 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 6: But we also know that we can affect some of 551 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 6: that those high cholesterol levels by changing our diet and 552 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 6: being active and keeping our weight off and managing our 553 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 6: blood sugars. Those are tremendously helpful in reducing our cholesterol levels. 554 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 6: So the answer, I guess Dan, is both of them. 555 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: Okay, So how effective are the medications which I think 556 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: generically are referred to as the stat as statins? Correct? 557 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, there are lots of alternatives now, but statins are 558 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 6: still they're the go to drug for people who have 559 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 6: high cholesterol levels, and they're extremely effective. It depends in 560 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 6: part on how high the cholesterol levels are, but the 561 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 6: statins will reduce cholesterol levels anywhere from you know, twenty 562 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 6: five to fifty percent, sometimes with you know, with help 563 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 6: from good dieting and activity. But it's the cholester're all 564 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 6: lowering effects of statins in and of themselves is sometimes 565 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 6: somewhere around thirty or thirty five percent. They're pretty powerful. 566 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: Okay, what's the downside of statins? Obviously, if you have 567 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 2: a patient and you have to recognize the level of 568 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: cholesterol being unhealthy, is there a downside to the statins? 569 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 2: And if there is a downside, how do you balance 570 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 2: giving statins to people at such an earlier age or 571 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: is the downside the downsides domini dominimus when you compare 572 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 2: what they actually can do for the patient. 573 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 6: Well, again, a great question, Dan. You know, the patients 574 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 6: will tell you, for the most part, the patients will 575 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 6: tell you when there's a problem with the statins. And 576 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 6: the major problem that happens maybe in five percent of 577 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 6: people or so, depending on the type of statin you 578 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,800 Speaker 6: use and the dose, it's muscle eight. And that's because 579 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 6: the statins aren't they're sort of it's called a pro drug. 580 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 6: It's not the active form of the drug. It has 581 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 6: to be metabolized or broken to it's you know, broken 582 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 6: down to its active form in the muscles. And so 583 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 6: a small percentage of people just they feel tired, their 584 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 6: muscles hurt, and that's a telltale sign. Then they tell 585 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 6: you I can't, I can't take this medicine. And if 586 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 6: they don't tell you, then you tell them, you know, 587 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,479 Speaker 6: it's it's just not for you. Now, there are lots 588 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 6: of choices of statins and they don't all have that 589 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 6: same level of a side effect as well. We now 590 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 6: have alternatives to statin medications for people who they've tried 591 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 6: two or three and they just can't take it. They 592 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 6: have muscle aches, so they get mild hepatitis and changes 593 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 6: in the enzymes and the liver that we always that 594 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 6: we follow and sometimes they just can't take that class 595 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 6: of agents, and there are alternatives. 596 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 2: Tell us about the alternatives, because obviously everybody is good 597 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: to want to know what is the latest alternative for 598 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 2: those who cantolerate satins. 599 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, boy, there's a there's a gangbuster class of agents. 600 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 6: It's called they're called PCSK nine inhibitors, and there are 601 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 6: two of them that are available and they reduce cholesterol 602 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 6: somewhere between forty and fifty percent. The downside for these 603 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 6: medications is that you have to self inject the medications 604 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 6: either once every two weeks or once a month, and 605 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 6: you know, they're pre filled syringes, and I think as 606 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 6: people in the Ozmpic world are getting used to do 607 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 6: they're getting used to doing it at home for a 608 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 6: different reason. It's you know, these are pre filled syringes 609 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 6: and they're tremendously effective. They're also quite expensive and a 610 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 6: lot of insurance companies won't allow patients to use these 611 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 6: medicals unless they have sailed statin therapy or don't tolerate it. 612 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 2: Okay, So from my audience tonight, who are in their thirties, 613 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: and they're saying, see, the next time I talk to 614 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 2: my doctor and he tells me my chloresterol is high, 615 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 2: is there any downside to beginning the statins in the 616 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 2: thirties as opposed to waiting perhaps until your fifties or 617 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 2: sixties or maybe seventies. 618 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 6: There it you know, I would say, Dan that it 619 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 6: depends on the patient's profile. And I hate to be evasive, 620 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 6: but that's fine. If there's a if there's a thirty 621 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 6: year old with you know, just barely a little bit 622 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 6: of elevated cholesterol and they're they're not they're not overweight 623 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 6: and they don't have diabetes, they're not a smoker, nobody 624 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 6: in the family has cholesterol disease. Most people can wait, 625 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 6: you can follow them, You can even do a coronary 626 00:37:55,200 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 6: calcium a calcium CT scan. You know that you were 627 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 6: about to get a calcium score, and that helps us 628 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 6: to maybe focus a little bit more discreetly on what 629 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 6: their risk is. There's something new called the prevent Calculator 630 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 6: that the American Heart Association and American Coledge of Cardiology 631 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 6: have just presented just actually a few days ago in 632 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 6: a current article. And this is a way to try 633 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 6: to predict the ten and thirty year risk of people 634 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 6: between the ages of thirty and seventy five of having 635 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 6: a coronary event a heart attack or heart failure. And 636 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 6: we now know in the low risk and sort of 637 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 6: intermediate risk or high risk categories, we have a better 638 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 6: sense of how to deal with those folks. So a 639 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 6: thirty year old who has really none of those other 640 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 6: risk factors that I just mentioned, that person, even if 641 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 6: they have a mild increase, they can do a lot 642 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 6: on their own to get that cholesterol level down and 643 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 6: just follow up with their doctor, maybe have another one 644 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 6: done in a year. Or two. 645 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 2: Well, doctor, doctor Chris Klein, the information is invaluable that 646 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 2: you shared with us, and I hope people listen carefully 647 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 2: and closely. I assume you're not looking for you're not 648 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 2: wanting for patients, but folks could get in touch with you, 649 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 2: I guess through the toughest medical center if they had 650 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 2: questions of their own. 651 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 6: Absolutely, we have a whole team of doctors just ready 652 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 6: to help. And I think that's the key. You know, 653 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 6: if you're not sure what to do, check with your doc. 654 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 2: You bet you Uh. That's the way I'm trying to 655 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 2: live my life, Doctor Chris Klein, Thank you so much 656 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 2: for your time tonight. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank 657 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:40,439 Speaker 2: you so much, and me too. 658 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having me and good luck. 659 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 2: Thank you very very very much, appreciate it. When we 660 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: get back, we're going to talk about the Old sawd 661 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: with Christopher Muther, a great travel writer for the Boston Globe. 662 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 2: Will oursolute to Saint Patrick's coming up