1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Boston's news radio. 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 2: All right, thank you very much, Dan Walkin. So we 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: talked last hour about a initiative petition which would basically 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: reimpose rint control statewide here in Massachusetts. Now there is 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: a different initiative petition, one of the other twelve that 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: would like to talk about, and that is an initiative 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: petition which would lower the Massachusetts income tax rate from 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 2: five percent what is currently at, to four percent. With 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: us is one of the folks who are very much 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: in favor of this particular proposal. His name is Chris Cohane. 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: He's with the Shawmont Strategies group Taxpayers for an Affordable Massachusetts. 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: Chris tell us about the initiative petition. I'm sure a 14 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: lot of people who love the idea of having their 15 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: state income tax lowered from five percent to four percent. 16 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: Well, that's what the numbers are showing us, and that's 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: the response we've had when when folks were out collecting 18 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 3: signatures and the phone calls we're making right now. It's 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 3: as simple as you said. This would move the state 20 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: income tax from five percent to four percent over three years, 21 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 3: going a third to third to third and the average voter, 22 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: average taxpayer in Massachusetts would see an additional thirteen hundred 23 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 3: dollars in their pockets over the course of the year, 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 3: which we believe is you know, really I would have 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 3: a tangible impact on the cost of living for folks 26 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 3: here in Massachusetts. 27 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: So thirteen hundred dollars each year is thirteen hundred dollars 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: once it was lowered to four percent after the third year. 29 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: Once it gets down to the four percent, it would 30 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: be thirteen hundred dollars each year. So you would. 31 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: See year at thirty dollars per year the first year, 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: another four hundred and thirty dollars the next year. And 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: you know, I just divide that number by number by three. 34 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: So what have there been polls done on this? I 35 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: don't ever remember a ballot initiative like this getting to 36 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: the to the voters at Massachusetts, at least in my memory. 37 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 3: So believe it or not, this actually happened in the 38 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: early two thousands. It passed. We originally had five point 39 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 3: eighty five percent income tact Yes, and voters passed over 40 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 3: over over a certain period of time to get down 41 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: to the five percent that we're at now, and that's 42 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 3: actually one of the reasons that this is put forward. 43 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: You know, there were the naysayers and the fearmongerers that 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: were opposed to it, and they said, you know, the 45 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 3: massive budget cuts is what they argued, but the reality 46 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: of it was nowhere near that. And you know, if 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 3: you have smart gradual tax cuts, you can still maintain 48 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 3: strong services. You know, they can coexist. We've done it 49 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 3: successfully before and there's no reason why we can't do 50 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 3: it again. 51 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 2: Interesting. So I do remember when it was raised above 52 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: five percent, and that was supposed to be on a 53 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: temporary basis, and then somehow it became permanent or it 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: wasn't being reduced, And you're right, it did take an 55 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: action by the voters to finally knock it back to 56 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: the five percent. This is not going to have an 57 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: impact on the millionaires tax correct, So there's no argument 58 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: that the millionaires will still pay the additional nine percent. 59 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: This does not affect the high earners. It affects people 60 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 2: who were more in the middle. It was a little bit, 61 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: I guess of a story that I saw today that 62 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: caught my eye that the other side has decided to 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: challenge the approval. And also I guess the description that 64 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: the Secretary of State's office has written about this initiative. 65 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: I'm sure you're familiar with what I'm talking about, correct. 66 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 3: I am, yeah, So tell us. 67 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: Just so, I just want to deal with that, you know, 68 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 2: right off the top here. So I think what was 69 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 2: written by whether it was the Secretary of State's office, 70 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: and I think it would have been the Secretary of 71 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: State's office. I think it was a fairly clear description. 72 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: They were saying that it did not include capital gains taxes, correct. 73 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: They did, That's exactly what they said. It was actually 74 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: the Attorney General and her team. They actually, for every 75 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: ballot question have to come up with a short, concise 76 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: summary that tries to encapsulate the major issues that come 77 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: from a ballot question, the major impacts, and the way 78 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: it was written. We fully trust that the AG and 79 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 3: her team put together a properly worded summary that I 80 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: think the voters are educated enough here in Massachusetts to 81 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 3: understand fully. And the argument that our opponents are putting 82 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 3: out there is just they're grasping it straws. You know 83 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: that it blows our mind that they would go to 84 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 3: these lengths to try and get voters to not have 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 3: a voice in their own tax rates. 86 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: Would One of the reasons we're doing this tonight is 87 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: to deal with this issue, and we dealt early with 88 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: rent control a couple of initiative petitions. These will be 89 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: very hot topics as the year goes on, and obviously 90 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: your presence here tonight indicates that you're will need to 91 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: talk about it. How difficult is it going to be? 92 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: Do you think in these ballid initiative races to make 93 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: the public really understand the issues and what is at stake. 94 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 3: Well, questions are historically tough to get fast. You need 95 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 3: to run a solid campaign. You need to make things 96 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 3: as understandable as possible because voters are actually passing laws. 97 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 3: You know, the way that this one is written, we 98 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: kept it as short and concise as possible. The summary 99 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: that the AG's office came up with really explains what 100 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: this does. And the biggest issue right now with twelve 101 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 3: ballot questions is just the sheer cost of having to 102 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 3: communicate with voters, whether it's TV or radio or digital ads. 103 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: There's only so many spaces that you can buy, so 104 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 3: there'll be competition and in those media buys, but you're 105 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 3: also going to have to focus on, you know, real 106 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 3: conversations so people can understand it. And you know, we'll 107 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: we'll invest heavily in talking voter to voter, not just 108 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 3: on TV and digital and radio. 109 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: Right. Well, the thing the advantage of talk radio is 110 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 2: that we can we can listen to people tonight who 111 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 2: want to have legitimate questions. We can listen to people 112 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: tonight you might support the initiative, and we can listen 113 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: to people tonight who don't support the initiative. And uh, 114 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: and and I think it's it's it's the best forum 115 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: for people to understand. And the people who listen and 116 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: talk radio are people for the most part, who will 117 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: take the time to go vote when that time, when 118 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: that time comes next November. So you have I assume 119 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: a lot of confidence that this initial this initiative, and 120 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: again you are the moving party in this initiative. You 121 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: have a lot of confidence that on this initiative it 122 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 2: will go it will go forward. Uh, and you will 123 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: you will get this before the voters in Massachusetts. 124 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: Correct, We're we're very confident where we are very confident 125 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: that will win at the state Supreme Court with the 126 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: against the lawsuit that was filed to have have the 127 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: summary changed or even the ballot question entirely kicked out, 128 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 3: and we're very confident that come November we're going to win. 129 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: All right. My guest is Chris Cohen. He's with a 130 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: group called the Taxpayers for an Affordable Massachusetts. They are 131 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: proposing that the state income tax, which now the Massachusetts 132 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: state income tax, which sits at five percent, be lowered 133 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: over three years by a third, a third and a 134 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: third of a percentage point, so that it ultimately three 135 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: years from now, if it's approved by the voters in November, 136 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: will drop to four percent. If you'd like to ask 137 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: a question, if you'd like to express your support or 138 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: your concern with this initiative, let's open up the phone 139 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: line six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six 140 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: one seven nine three one ten thirty. My guess, Chris 141 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: Cohane from Taxpayers for an Affordable Massachusetts. There are some 142 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: other issues that we want to address, and that is 143 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 2: the outflow, the out immigration, if you will, of taxpayers 144 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: here in Massachusetts, and is one of the side benefits 145 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: of a proposal like this one that might induce people 146 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: to stay. Massachusetts in recent years has been losing people 147 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: to other states. To more friendly tax states like New Hampshire, 148 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: like Florida, like Tennessee. I'm assuming I'm going to ask 149 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 2: Chris if that is one of the motivations that perhaps 150 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: gives this ballot initiative the impetus that it might need 151 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 2: to actually get past this November six, one, seven, two, five, four, 152 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. 153 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: Would you like to see your state tax in Massachusetts 154 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: dropped over the next three years. If so, give us 155 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 2: a call if you think it's going to jeopardize whatever 156 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: services public services we provide here in Massachusetts, or you 157 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: want to ask a question. The numbers are the same 158 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: six one, seven, two, five four to ten thirty six 159 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. I appreciate that 160 00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 2: Chris is here at ten o'clock on a Wednesday, willing 161 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: to talk about this and also to entertain your questions. 162 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: Let's have a civil conversation wherever you come down on 163 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: this issue. Back on Nightside with some calls. 164 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: Right after this, You're on Night Side with Dan Ray 165 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 166 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: We're talking about a ballot initiative, a proposal that real 167 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: voters in Massachusetts will be facing and we'll be dealing 168 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: with and will be deciding, i believe next November, which 169 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: ultimately would lower the state income tax right here in 170 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: Massachusetts from five percent to four percent over three years, 171 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 2: a third and third and third over those three years. Chris, 172 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: in an article that I read today at the State 173 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: House News Service, you were quoted as saying that the 174 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: ballot question has overwhelming support, including seventy five percent of 175 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: union households, and will put an average of thirteen hundred 176 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: dollars back in the pockets of working families across the 177 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: Commonwealth at a time when it is desperately needed. What 178 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: do you base that number on. Have you folks been 179 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 2: out in the field polling on this, this whole issue. 180 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: We have, and there's been some public polling initially that 181 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 3: came out as well, and what we're seeing is overwhelming support. 182 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: You know, nearly seventy percent of all voters support this, 183 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: Like you just said, seventy five percent of union households. 184 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 3: You know, the numbers that came back were pretty startling. 185 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 3: I mean, we've been talking about affordability now for the 186 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: last couple of years, both at the national and local level, 187 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: and the top three issues that people responded back to 188 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 3: us were inflation and the cost of living, housing, affordability, 189 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 3: and taxes and government spending. Those are the top three 190 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 3: issues that Massachusetts voters were focused on, and those same 191 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 3: voters told us that they thought taxes were too high. 192 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 3: Almost sixty six percent of voters said that, and sixty 193 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 3: one percent said that thirteen hundred dollars number that would 194 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 3: have a real noticeable positive impact on their life. And 195 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: this is why it's being put forward. You know, Massachusetts 196 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 3: has an affordability crisis, there's no question about that, and 197 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: voters feel stuck. This is something that could put money 198 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 3: right back in their pockets and allow them to spend 199 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 3: at how they see fit to make their lives better. 200 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: Chris, Massachusetts, with its reputation as a fairly progressive state 201 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 2: or a very progressive state, this would be a stunning 202 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: development if Massachusetts voters actually reduced their income tax rate, 203 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 2: in my opinion, from five percent to four percent. You 204 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: are going to, I assume face opposition here from a 205 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: lot of the editorial pages. I kind of imagine the 206 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 2: Boston Globe is going to endorse your I'm sure you 207 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: probably hope that they would endorse this, but I don't 208 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: think the Globe would endorse it. I don't think some 209 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: of the unions, like the mass Teachers' Union, would endorse this. 210 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: They would see this as something which would be dangerous 211 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: is to funding for education. Have you thought, I'm sure 212 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: you've thought about those issues. What are you going to 213 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 2: say to, you know, at editorial board meetings when you 214 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 2: sit in front of you know, editorial boards that instinctively 215 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: are not going to like this. And you know, you 216 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: can disagree with me if you want, but I truly 217 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: believe that that you know what I'm talking about. You 218 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 2: you're fighting a battle here in Massachusetts. 219 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 3: I do, and I agree with you, but I'd say, 220 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 3: you know, one of the things to think about is 221 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 3: our opponents are going to try and shape this as 222 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 3: a left versus right issue, and it's by no means 223 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 3: anywhere near that. I'm a registered Democrat, I'm a Democratic consultant. 224 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 3: I work exclusively for Democrats, and I'm helping to lead 225 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 3: the charge on this issue because it's not left or right. 226 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 3: It's common sense. Working families, Union households in particular, are 227 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 3: struggling every day to get by here in Massachusetts. And 228 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 3: you said it a little bit ago about the out 229 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: of people. You know, residents and businesses are voting with 230 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 3: their feet and they're leaving Massachusetts. Thirty thousand residents last 231 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 3: year alone walked out of Massachusetts, and they're saying it's 232 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 3: because of an affordability issue, a competitiveness issue. You know, 233 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 3: it's a stunning number, but Massachusetts ranks one of the 234 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 3: lowest in the country and growth. We're actually losing a 235 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 3: resident every twelve minutes. If that's not a startling enough 236 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 3: statistic to jar someone to say we actually need to 237 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 3: do something right now, I don't know what would be. 238 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 3: And I think the more we shape this is the 239 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 3: as real tangible impact for the people that need it 240 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 3: most and not a left right issue allows this to 241 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 3: have a real civil conversation about this, and it really 242 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: should be. 243 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: I agree. I agree with that. At the same time, 244 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: the politics of Massachusetts. I mean, if this actually passed, 245 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: it would be shocking across the country because that is 246 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: not sort of the you know, we are still trying 247 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: to shake that label of Taxachusetts, which has I don't 248 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: think Massachusetts has shaken that yet, certainly they would shake 249 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: it if this were to pass. Have you guys did 250 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: any sort of analysis because I'm sure the folks who 251 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 2: are on the other side of this argument are going 252 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: to do analysis as to what and ultimately a one 253 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: percent drop in state income tax revenue, and I realized 254 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 2: that's not the entire that's not the entire budget. I 255 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 2: get that any idea what of an impact it would 256 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: It would mean some money that would be flowing into 257 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 2: the state coffers will will stop flowing a percentage of 258 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: that money. Have you done any sort of an analysis 259 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: as to what that would you know, how much that 260 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: would would cause. We know, in the one hand, you're 261 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: telling us that the average family would see an increase 262 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: of thirteen hundred dollars per year once the four percent 263 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: level is reached. How much would it cost the commonwealth 264 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: if this were to pass? Have you done an analysis 265 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: on that. 266 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 3: We have the Mass Opportunity Alliance just a couple of 267 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 3: weeks ago released this study that actually did a full 268 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: deep dive on this, and you know, our opponents are 269 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: throwing out numbers that are just not even based anywhere 270 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 3: close to reality. The reality is that this is about 271 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: a six hundred and fifty to six hundred and eighty 272 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 3: million dollar cost for the first the first three years 273 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: each of the first three years, but after that, our 274 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 3: economy grows at twice the rate as if we had 275 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: done it, if we had done nothing. So it supercharges 276 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: the economy. Create It will create new jobs. And when 277 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: you think about the sixty one percent of voters that 278 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: say thirteen hundred dollars, we'll have a noticeable impact for them. 279 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: That's because they're going to spend it. It's not going 280 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: to go to pay down debt, it's not going to 281 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 3: go into a savings account somewhere. They're going to go 282 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 3: get a meal. They're going to go buy a case 283 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 3: of beer or a bottle of line. They're going to 284 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 3: go to the stores. They're going to pay sales tax, 285 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 3: meal stacks Odell's tax. It's going to create jobs, and 286 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 3: all of that heuse offset what would be lost. And 287 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 3: we view this not as a loss in the budget, 288 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 3: but as a supercharging of an economy that desperately needs it. 289 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: Interesting, you know what, I follow this fairly closely, probably 290 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: not as closely as you, but right now we run 291 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: a state budget about sixty two billion dollars a year, 292 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: give or take. I think you'll you'll agree with that issue. 293 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: If you go back ten years or fifteen years, how 294 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 2: much has our state budget grown? Because my sense is 295 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 2: that when Deval Patrick was governor, which is you know, 296 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 2: maybe ten fifty, well fifteen years ago, that our budgets 297 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: were in the like the twenty eight to thirty range. 298 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: Have we not has the budget not exploded in the 299 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: last last years? And is that not an argument that 300 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 2: you folks are able to make. You folks who want 301 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 2: to see the state reduce the state income tax from 302 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: five percent to four percent. 303 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 3: Will definitely be part of the conversation. The state budgets 304 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 3: have grown exponentially over the last decade plus, and especially 305 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 3: since COVID. You know, there are a lot of programs 306 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 3: out there that started under COVID that we're supposed to 307 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: be temporary that have continued on. So even when we 308 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 3: say the six hundred and fifty million dollars, we are 309 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 3: more than confident that if someone put pen the paper 310 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 3: and looks through the budget, we could find that money 311 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 3: to not impact any of the major programs we have 312 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 3: here in Massachusetts that are desperately needed. You know, a 313 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 3: perfect example is, you know, the Boston Globe just the 314 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 3: other day wrote an article of we have approximately fifteen 315 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 3: hundred families in emergency shelters right now, but we're paying 316 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 3: for four thousand rooms. That's at least one hundred million 317 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 3: dollars of waste that could be trinds from the budget 318 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 3: with the snap of the finger. 319 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: Are those long term contracts or are we paying that 320 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: we're holding those just in case there's another influx of 321 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 2: immigrants into the state. 322 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: The Globe didn't go into into detail with that, but 323 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 3: they couldn't. They got the numbers from the state, but 324 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 3: they didn't get much more than that. 325 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: Well, the amount of waste. I'm sure you know about 326 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 2: that taxicab company that was down on the Cape that 327 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: had a no big contract They think it was for 328 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 2: nine million dollars for taxicab fares. And the way it worked, 329 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: as I understand it was that when someone in one 330 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: of the shelters needed to go shopping or go to 331 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: a doctor's appointment, they would summon a taxi cab and 332 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: when the cab picked them up, the meters started at 333 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: forty dollars. So if they were being driven to a 334 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 2: shopping center a grocery store a mile away, the addition 335 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 2: might be four dollars, but the fare was forty four 336 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: dollars because it didn't start at zero, which to me 337 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: just blew my mind that if a TAXI rolled up 338 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 2: to my house and said, oh yeah, I'm going to 339 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: fill the media here and it looked like forty dollars 340 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: as we were going out the driveway, I would be saying, whoa, whoa, 341 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: let's hold on here. My guest is you know of 342 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: what I speak? I hope when I tell you that story, 343 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: I do. Yeah. Yeah. My guest is Chris Gohen. He 344 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 2: is with the Taxpayers for an Affordable Massachusetts and one 345 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: of the ballot issues that we will all have a 346 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: chance to vote on here in Massachusetts this November, we'll 347 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 2: deal with a proposal, an initiative petition, which would propose 348 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 2: to drop the income tax, the state income tax, the 349 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: Massachusetts state income tax, from its current status of five 350 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: percent on income tax down to four percent. You've heard 351 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 2: Chris Cohane. If you agree and you'd like to see 352 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 2: a tax cut or I'd like to save some money 353 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: on your taxes, feel free six one, seven, two, five, four, 354 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 2: ten thirty If you disagree. I think this is going 355 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,239 Speaker 2: to be a great ongoing debate this spring, summer and 356 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: into the fall. It probably is going to impact the 357 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 2: governor's race in some form of fashion. I think it'll 358 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 2: probably increase the number of people who will go to 359 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: vote on both sides. So I think this has all 360 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 2: irrespective of what the results are. I think it's a 361 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 2: positive for people to get involved and think about where 362 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: their money is going and what the Carwalta Massachusetts is 363 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: doing with it. That's why we're doing this tonight. It 364 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 2: is not a vote that you'll be taking in March 365 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 2: at your town meetings. It's a vote that you'll be 366 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: casting next November, when the final race we pick a 367 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: governor or we stay with a governor whatever we elect 368 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 2: constitutional officers, and we also will have a US Senate race. 369 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: So it's going to be an interesting year politically. Here's 370 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: the number. Please feel free to join us the join 371 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: the conversation, ask questions, or make comments six one, seven, two, 372 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 2: five four to ten thirty six one seven, nine, three 373 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: one ten thirty. I do have some open lines, feel 374 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: free to jump on. I'd love to know what you think. 375 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 2: Chris Cohane has been very clear in how he has 376 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 2: explained this. I've tried to ask him questions that that 377 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 2: some of you might have thought about. But I'm sure 378 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 2: there are questions that you've thought about that I haven't asked, 379 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 2: and those the questions I need to hear from. We're 380 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: back on night Side right after the break here a 381 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 2: couple of minutes late. I apologize for that news. At 382 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: the bottom of the. 383 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: Hour, You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w 384 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: b Z, Boston's News Radio. 385 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: Delighted to be joined by Chris Cohanes. Chris is with 386 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 2: a group called Taxpayers from Affordable Massachusetts. I think that 387 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: says it all. They are looking to have voters in 388 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 2: Massachusetts agree with them this November. When you go to 389 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: the ballot, to the ballot to the to cast your 390 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 2: ballot next November. You can vote for senator, you can 391 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 2: vote for governor, you can vote for the constitutional officer 392 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 2: of state, rep state senators, all of that, but you'll 393 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 2: also have some initiative petitions, and this might be the 394 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 2: most important one of all. Let's get to the phones, Chris, 395 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 2: I hope you're ready. Let's see what people have to say. 396 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: David in Norwell, David, appreciate your calling in. You all 397 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: with Chris Cohen from the Taxpayers from an Affordable Massachusetts. 398 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: What do you think of this idea. 399 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 4: David Well, First of all, Chris, thank you very much 400 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 4: for getting I was surprised when I saw this on 401 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 4: the ballot in a good way. I'm glad to be 402 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 4: on it. Dan, I've been on your program before. Actually 403 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 4: I'm I am David from Norwell, but more specifically, I'm 404 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 4: State Representative Dave dacoast. 405 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 2: Oh sure, absolutely representative. Yeah, you're one of my favorites. 406 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: I'll tell you you're one of the good guys out there. 407 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 4: Well, thank you. I'm an Avi Nelson Republican. When I 408 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 4: see my Republican a lot of gray air in there, 409 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 4: I always get smiles. But I grew up listening to 410 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 4: you and Ave and doctor Brettnoy, and you had a 411 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 4: great deal to do with my political philosophy. But Chris, 412 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 4: I appreciate the fact that you're stressing me as among 413 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 4: the I pride myself of being among the more, probably 414 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 4: the most. At this point. We're pro Union Republican and 415 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 4: I have a listener. 416 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 2: By the way, hey, look well representative, there is nothing 417 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: wrong with that. I mean, Sean O'Brien is a great 418 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: friend of mine, and I think I happen to be 419 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 2: a Union member and I think we need unions to 420 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 2: balance off against corporations. And I think the Republicans, for 421 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 2: many years, a lot of the so called country club 422 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 2: Republicans look down their noses at unions, and I think 423 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: that was a huge mistake and this might correct that mistake. 424 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 2: Go ahead, Representative. I didn't mean to to rupt you, 425 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: but I wanted to find you. 426 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 4: I agree with you in the audience. Ye remember their 427 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 4: Reagan was the first union president to be elected. And 428 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 4: I can tell you, given my experience as a selectman 429 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 4: in Norwa, we absolutely need unions. And I have younger 430 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 4: members labor unions in iron Workers and my cousins are 431 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 4: are laborers. And I'll tell you that it's like the 432 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 4: Marine Corps, you tea. They keep them in the straight 433 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 4: and narrow. And I will tell you the state representative, 434 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 4: I have never had a union member call me up 435 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 4: because they are they are hurting some money in their 436 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 4: older years. So unions do as promise. 437 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 5: But I've been a member of After Now after SAG 438 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 5: since since nineteen seventy four, and they have they have 439 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 5: served my interest and the interest of my fellow members well. 440 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 2: But but I interrupted you. Go ahead, Represented, I apologize. 441 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 4: No not at all. Chris, thank you and thank you 442 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 4: for stressing the fact that it helps. We are overtaxed 443 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 4: here well, using a lot of good jobs. And I 444 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 4: really appreciate the fact that you worked hard. Again I was, 445 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 4: I was kind of shocked that you made it onto 446 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 4: the ballot. But keep up the good work and Dan 447 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 4: you as well. 448 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 2: Dan. 449 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 4: At some point, I'm going to talk to you about 450 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 4: an issue that we've talked to you about before, which 451 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 4: is the rapes of a nut Tonight's nothing in night, 452 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 4: but we have we're making progress with the rape Survivor bill, 453 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 4: and we'll talk to you about that later. And Chris, 454 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 4: once again, thank you very much and thank you for 455 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 4: your advocacy. 456 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 3: Thank you for your support. 457 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 2: Representative. Rob will give you Rob, give representative my my 458 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: best phone number, give me a call representative, and we'll 459 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: do something whatever we can do to help out on 460 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: that issue. I'm very familiar with what your work on 461 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 2: it and I commend you for it, and if we 462 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 2: can help, we'll be. 463 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 4: Happy to yes, sir, and I will report back. And 464 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 4: I oh Abby Nelson a dinner, so I'll tell you 465 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 4: how he's doing as well. 466 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 2: Okay, he's an old friend as well, thank you so much, Dave. 467 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 2: I appreciated Representative Representative David to cost stay right there 468 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 2: and Rob give him. Oh he hung up. Representative. I 469 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 2: wanted Rob to give you my phone number. I can 470 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: reach him. I can call him if I have to. Rob. 471 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: If represent if you want to call back, Rob will 472 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: give you my number. You can reach me. You probably 473 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: have it anyway. Our number is six one, seven, two, five, 474 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. 475 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 2: My guest Chris Cohane from Taxpayers from Affordable Massachusetts. They 476 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: would like to reduce the state income tax rate here 477 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 2: in Massachusetts from five percent to four percent over three years, 478 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: so in inscrements of the third UH and take one 479 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 2: percent off the tax rate. I think it would be 480 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 2: an amazing accomplishment, and particularly in Massachusetts with our reputation, Chris, 481 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: this would be an incredible opportunity to say people in 482 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: Massachusetts and elsewhere around the country that Massachusetts has the 483 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: message and it is basically going to go in a 484 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 2: direction that is more supportive of people who have been 485 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 2: paying the bills all of these years. Chris will take 486 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 2: a break, We'll get some more phone calls. If you're 487 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: listening feel free. I'm more than willing to take this 488 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 2: into the next hour. I will let my guests Chris 489 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 2: Cohane go because he has to probably be working tomorrow 490 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 2: at eight thirty or nine o'clock. I very well might 491 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: take this into the next hour. So everyone on now, 492 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 2: I will get you on before eleven, but don't hesitate 493 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: to call, because we may take this into the next hour. 494 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 2: Six point seven two, five, four, ten thirty six, seven, nine, 495 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 2: three thirty. Come on right back on Nightside. 496 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news Radio. 497 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 2: My guest is Chris Cohan. He is with the group 498 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: called Taxpayers for an Affordable Massachusetts. The issue that they 499 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: are pushing is a reduction in the state income tax 500 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: right here in Massachusetts. Currently it's five. He wants to 501 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: see you go down to four. If this passes next November, 502 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 2: it will go down in increments of one third of 503 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: a point for three years, going from five to four. Chris, 504 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: very quickly, what is the best way people who want 505 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: to support this initiative? How can they get in touch 506 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 2: with your group? 507 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: Easiest way to get in touch with us is to 508 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 3: visit Affordable m a dot org and you can sign 509 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 3: up to volunteer and get in touch with us and 510 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: we'll get you active in the campaign. 511 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 2: So all one word AFFORDABLEM a dot com. That that 512 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: simplifies it a lot. Very that's a good website, AFFORDABLEM 513 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: dot com. Let me go to Gene and Everett. Hi, Gene, 514 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: you're next on Night Side with my Guests. 515 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 6: To your guest, so I actually i'd like to see instead, 516 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 6: I'd like to see the sales tax go down because 517 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,479 Speaker 6: I don't pay state tax my Social Security. So you're 518 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 6: leafing out a whole pool of people. 519 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: Well, Gene, here's the here's the issue. They have charted 520 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 2: a course here. Uh, if everybody looks at it and says, 521 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 2: if you work for I assume you work for the 522 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: state and therefore you don't pay Social Security taxes? Is 523 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 2: that the way that. 524 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 6: Works social on What I'm saying is on my Social 525 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 6: Security retirement, I do not pay state tax on it. 526 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,959 Speaker 6: We only pay federal tax on it. Everyone pays federal 527 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 6: tax on their Social Security, not state. It's not state taxed. 528 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 2: Okay, So so you're you want your focus, you'd like 529 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: to see him focus on sales tax. 530 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 6: I would, yes, because everywhere I go, I get ripped 531 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 6: off at the register with sales tax. 532 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: At the end of the want I want, I want Chris. 533 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: I want Chris to respond to that. And the other 534 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: the other thing is you you you once heard the 535 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: Chinese proverb of how do you eat an elephant? You know, 536 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: it's one bite at a time. So Chris started down, 537 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: started down this road. Let's let me, let me, let's 538 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 2: let's listen to what Chris says, because I think the 539 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: issue you raise is interesting. Chris, go right ahead. 540 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 3: I'd be certainly happy to to work on a campaign 541 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 3: for that as well. The issue that you have, unfortunately 542 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 3: with balid questions here in Massachusetts, is you can only 543 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: have a single issue, so we couldn't put all of 544 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 3: the various taxes together. What you raise is a very 545 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 3: valid and important point that, yeah, there are there are 546 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 3: some folks that do not pay state income tax. 547 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 6: Uh. 548 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 3: And you know, maybe two years from now we'll have 549 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 3: you on the campaign working to help produce that as well. 550 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 6: Yeah you never no, listen, but you know what it 551 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 6: is is, I'm looking for help for seniors. Really, I 552 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 6: know that families need help, but they do have a 553 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 6: lot of write offs on their state taxes. There's all 554 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 6: kinds of different things for families and children. I don't 555 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 6: see a lot for seniors. The senior circuit break that 556 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 6: doesn't work for everyone either. It's very complicated. The state 557 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 6: form is worse. It's the federal form is so much 558 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 6: easier to fill out than the state income tax form. 559 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 6: Why that is really? And I think I'd like to 560 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 6: see the state tighten their belt, like all of us 561 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 6: have to tighten ours right now when we go to 562 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 6: the grocery store, we don't buy grapes and all the 563 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 6: wonderful things we'd like to get. We have had to 564 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 6: cut back because of our gas and electric bills. And 565 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 6: I'm not saying I want to see people laid off 566 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 6: because they don't because people need their paychecks. I want 567 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 6: the state itself to look and see where they can 568 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 6: cut their budget. Not layoff people, but cut out. I 569 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 6: see a lot of foolishness going on, spending trips saying. 570 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: I got a question for you here. I'm just checking 571 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: you out. I'm checking you out here. Okay, Massachusetts does 572 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: not tax Social Security benefits. This exemption applies as long 573 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 2: as the benefits are all. 574 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 6: Oh, I know it doesn't. 575 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: This exemption applies as long as the benefits are also 576 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: exempt from federal taxation. So you receive a Social Security 577 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 2: pension because of. 578 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 6: Your well, you could call it. I listen, I'm talking 579 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 6: about my Social Security. I worked all my life. Yeah, 580 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 6: I paid lots of Social Security. I waited until I 581 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 6: was seventy to collect it because I needed the money 582 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 6: and I wasn't going to take less. 583 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 2: I'm saying that. I said that, but I do believe 584 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: that you do pay unless who did you work for 585 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 2: all your life? Did you work in the private sector 586 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 2: or did you work for the Comwaltha, Massachusetts. 587 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 6: I worked multiple multiple jobs. 588 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 2: Okay, well again, okay, yeah, more investigation. 589 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 6: So I have my my Social Security for my taxes 590 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 6: right here, I want to double check before I called. 591 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 6: Social Security is taxed federally by the federal government of 592 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 6: course the state. 593 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to find that out for sure, because 594 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 2: that is not what I'm looking at here. Listen. Well, 595 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 2: I'm not going to repeat it. I got to get 596 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 2: to one other call. Thanks very much, Jane. We'll hear 597 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 2: what you're saying. There's but again, remember the Chinese proverb 598 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: you eat an elephant one one bite at a time. 599 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: Thank you. Uh Paul in monson Massachusetts, Central Massachusetts. Hey Paul, 600 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 2: thanks for checking in. You on with Chris Cohane. 601 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 7: Good evening, Chris, good evening again. I agree with the 602 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 7: last caller the state definitely, we should always be looking 603 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 7: we should always be looking for for for waste in. 604 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 3: The federal budget. 605 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 8: I'm definitely gonna be voting against this. I'm generally. 606 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 7: There's a structural deficit in in the state budget and 607 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 7: the public works and the public service. 608 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, the State of Massachusetts cannot run a deficit. 609 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 2: The State of Massachusetts is required to have a balanced 610 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 2: budget ball and right now, do you know what the 611 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 2: State of Massachusetts has in a as a rainy day 612 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 2: fund available to use in case of emergencies. 613 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 7: I want to take a guest, I don't live in 614 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 7: the amount. It's not a small amount of money. 615 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: It is eight billion dollars. So we have a sixty 616 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: two billion dollar state budget and eight billion dollars would 617 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 2: cover a lot of problems. But but you know, if 618 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 2: you want to vote against it, that's your prerogative. 619 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 7: You know, so, so I know what it is, and 620 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 7: the ringing day budget, you know that is there for 621 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 7: when you know the business cycles things and they flow. 622 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 7: But the needs of the cities and towns are of 623 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 7: the three hundred and fifty one cities and towns are 624 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 7: just are extreme ordinary, and the town officials and budget 625 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 7: officials in the city and town level what they're struggling 626 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 7: with the needs in terms of you know, I can 627 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 7: cite numerous examples, you know, schools, public works, buildings. I 628 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 7: think there's a lack of appreciation, of a lack of 629 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 7: understanding of how much cities and towns depend on state aid. 630 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 7: The other the other sort of aspect of this that 631 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 7: I that I want to get to and I'm actually, 632 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 7: would you, Paul, let me ask. 633 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 2: You us, would you would you prefer if you actually 634 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 2: could pay more taxes to the state. 635 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 8: Honestly? 636 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 7: Right you see you probably tell me, yeah, go ahead, 637 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 7: pay pay it voluntarily, go ahead, go ahead. I know 638 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 7: I could actually. 639 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 8: A little afford a lot more. I mean, I'm a 640 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 8: truck driver. But but my wife and I were were 641 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 8: we're low income people. Were you know, we're in an 642 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 8: expensive state. But we we we we appreciate our government 643 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 8: services and the state. The state does a lot of 644 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 8: things that people people can't even people can't even imagine. 645 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 2: Give me, give me an example of something the state 646 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 2: does that people don't imagine here in Massachusetts. 647 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 8: I'll try to tell it. 648 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 7: As I make my other point, I'll be thinking of 649 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 7: I'll be thinking of, I got you know. 650 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 2: What, Paul, I got thirty seconds. I'll be happy to 651 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 2: hold you through the through the new news from the 652 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 2: eleven o'clock News. Hold on right there and we'll continue on. Chris, 653 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 2: thank you very much. We are out of time for 654 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 2: this hour. The website affordable m a dot com and 655 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: I hope a lot of people look at it and 656 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 2: and get the information and we'll we'll continue with this 657 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 2: conversation after the eleven o'clock News. Thanks so much for 658 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 2: your time, Chris. It was a great, great hour, and 659 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 2: I think we've explained it to a lot of people. 660 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. 661 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 2: You bet you. We'll have you back. Chris Cohane of 662 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 2: the website Affordable m a dot com. Take a break. 663 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 2: Here's the eleven o'clock news. If you're on the line, 664 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: stay there. I will get to you. Let's talk about 665 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 2: this next hour. I think it's important and we'll continue 666 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 2: right after the break.