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Speaker 1: Around the country. I need to know the weather in traffic.

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Speaker 2: Listen, then you'll know.

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Speaker 1: On fifty five KRC Talkstation, appropriately time bumper music from

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Speaker 1: Executi producer Joe Strecker. To deal with the first topic,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get too. If Jack Windsor returns to

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Speaker 1: these editor in chief of the Ohio Press Network, which

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Speaker 1: you can find online, and I encourage you to do

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Speaker 1: so the Ohio pressnetwork dot com front page right there.

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Speaker 1: Governor Ohio Governor suspends sales intoxicating hemp products. Jack Windsor,

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Speaker 1: it's great having you on the fifty five KRC Morning Show, Sir.

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Speaker 1: Welcome on Happy Friday, Brian.

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Speaker 2: It's always an honor to be here with you and

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Speaker 2: the Karc family and Joe, thanks for setting it up.

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Speaker 2: Always appreciate you here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, and I love having you on because you'll

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Speaker 1: be able to explain a couple of things to me.

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Speaker 1: Most notably, we're going to get to this. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm confused as hell about the Ohio property tax situation.

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Speaker 1: Let's table that just for a moment. I think I

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Speaker 1: understand hemp a little bit better. That's not a revealing statement,

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Speaker 1: but we have hemp is legal to grow. I've had.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Thomas Massey worked on this forever. Hemp has

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Speaker 1: what point three or less of the intoxicating THC, which

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Speaker 1: is the big thing that's going to get your stone.

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Speaker 1: So hemp has got a million different industrial uses. You

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Speaker 1: can make clothes out of it, you can make ballpoint

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Speaker 1: pens out of it, you can make wood out of it,

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Speaker 1: on and on and on. An amazing multipurpose use. Miners

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Speaker 1: staying it's easy to grow, it's it grows quickly. So

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Speaker 1: this has got all kinds of positives built into it.

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Speaker 1: But I draw a parallel, and you, Jack Windsor, can

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Speaker 1: tell me if I'm wrong. I guess industrial hemp's kind

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Speaker 1: of like the poppy plant. You can get opium out

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Speaker 1: of poppy, but that's not good enough. You need something stronger,

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Speaker 1: so you make morphine out of the opium, and then

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Speaker 1: you make heroin out of the morphine. So you keep

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Speaker 1: concentrating it and refining it to the point where it

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Speaker 1: gets well dangerous zero point three percent THC I guess,

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Speaker 1: can be concentrated down to an intoxication level of THC.

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Speaker 1: Have I got the lay of the land on that, right, Jack?

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Speaker 2: I think you do have the lay of the land

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Speaker 2: on that and one of the issues, and then I'll

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Speaker 2: stop because you may want to direct me into a

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Speaker 2: different direction. So one, it can be hyper concentrated and

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Speaker 2: extremely intoxicating. That's number one. But number two, I think

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Speaker 2: the geist under which DeWine has proposed this Executive Order

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five five D. He's calling it an adulterated

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Speaker 2: consumer product emergency is that these products are maybe not

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Speaker 2: labeled accurately and they are sold without verification. So the

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Speaker 2: issue that DeWine talks about is a kid can go

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Speaker 2: to a corner store, c store, convenience store, gas station

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Speaker 2: and say, hey, I want some of those things that

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Speaker 2: look like gushers are those things that look like cabbage

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Speaker 2: patch kids or those things that you know looks look

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Speaker 2: like whatever, and buy them, go to school, take them,

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Speaker 2: get high. And if you saw the press conference he

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Speaker 2: had on Wednesday, that was really what the lab coat

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Speaker 2: beside him said from the Poison Control Center was that

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Speaker 2: there has been a drastic increase in the number of

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Speaker 2: calls and poison cases for nineteen year olds in below,

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Speaker 2: some of those resulting in hospitalization. So there is there

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Speaker 2: are a couple of issues here and we can kind

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Speaker 2: of tease those, tease those out, but I'll just stop there.

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Speaker 1: No, that's an excellent but it's a great, great explanation

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Speaker 1: of what's going on here. So it sounds to me

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Speaker 1: like something that's in need of labeling laws or you know,

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Speaker 1: there needs to be warnings, maybe an age cut off

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Speaker 1: like there is for alcohol, like there is for purchasing

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Speaker 1: legalized marijuana. You can't just walk into a store and

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Speaker 1: buy weed. At a marijuana shop, you got to show

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Speaker 1: them your ID to get in, blah blah blah. So

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Speaker 1: you can go to the like a convenience store and

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Speaker 1: buy these concentrates in the form of hemp without any

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Speaker 1: other protocols in place. That that's not sounds like something

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Speaker 1: to be need fixing. So do you have any criticism

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Speaker 1: with the way in which he went about it? This

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Speaker 1: sounds like it requires all legislative action.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I spent my entire radio show yesterday dragging

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Speaker 2: Mike DeWine because I want to remind listeners and I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: not sorry. This is a guy who vetoed the Say

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Speaker 2: Act that would have kept kids from taking chemical castration

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Speaker 2: drugs and cutting off healthy body parts. This is a

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Speaker 2: guy who used tax dollars to incent experimental jabs for kids,

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Speaker 2: which we now know calls myocarditis, and we knew back then,

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Speaker 2: but he ignored those warnings. So whenever Mike Dwine strolls

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Speaker 2: out with a lab coat beside him to pretend like

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Speaker 2: he cares for kids, my initial thought is how much

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Speaker 2: BS am I going to have to wade through here

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Speaker 2: to get the truth. So that's one issue, But the

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Speaker 2: second issue is are we using a wrecking ball where

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Speaker 2: we could use a scalpel? And I like bourbon, I'm

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Speaker 2: not afraid to say that, and so when I look

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Speaker 2: at intoxicating himp, I go, why don't we treat it

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Speaker 2: like bourbon? And what I mean by that is if

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Speaker 2: you go to any gas station, you can get beer,

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Speaker 2: you can get wine, and you can get those little

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Speaker 2: fireballs right now, they're watered down.

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Speaker 1: Water bourbon or water down liquor. Basically, if it's under

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Speaker 1: what ABV or something.

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Speaker 2: Like that, yes, if it's under a certain percentage, you

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Speaker 2: can get it. And if you want the good stuff,

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Speaker 2: as bourbon drinkers like me would tell you, you go

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Speaker 2: to an OHLQ site in Kroger or in uh Giant

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Speaker 2: Eagle so why can't we do the same thing? And

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Speaker 2: people go, well, you know, do you know how hard

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Speaker 2: it is to let people know that they need to card?

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Speaker 2: And I go, well, no, that seems like a straw

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Speaker 2: man argument, because if he's going to outlaw intoxicating him

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Speaker 2: by the fourteenth, guess what he's going to communicate with

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Speaker 2: CEA stores, gas stations and other purveyors of these products.

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Speaker 2: Why can't you then say in that communication, we're going

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Speaker 2: to require you to card, and then you can start

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Speaker 2: this process of making sure the labels are accurate, making

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Speaker 2: sure that we create rules through legislation around how much

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Speaker 2: concentrated hemp you can sell. But why can't we treat

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Speaker 2: it like alcohol? My big beef, by the way, is

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Speaker 2: I have some friends in the alcohol distribution business. I

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Speaker 2: don't understand why an alcohol distribution business who sells hemp

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Speaker 2: beverages is now required to take all that off their

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Speaker 2: shelves when frankly, those are the ones that are probably

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Speaker 2: labeled accurately and sold to adult consumers. So again, this

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Speaker 2: feels to me like a wrecking ball, whereas scalpel is needed.

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Speaker 2: I hope that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It does, and I'm not disagreeing with you fundamentally, Now,

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Speaker 1: are there quality controls in connection with the so called

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Speaker 1: intoxicating hemp products? Because you go to a marijuana store,

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Speaker 1: it's got all kinds of quality controls. It has to

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Speaker 1: tay exact concentrations when it was inspected, it was expected

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Speaker 1: by a third party outside inspector. So you get some

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Speaker 1: level of comfort what you're smoking or taking whatever isn't

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Speaker 1: laden with all kinds of chemicals or mites or that.

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Speaker 1: Now with the concentrated hemp industry, are they subject to

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Speaker 1: those quality controls?

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Speaker 2: You know they are not, and they should be. And

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Speaker 2: I think that is the crux of the issue is

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Speaker 2: how do we get our arms around the packaging, what's

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Speaker 2: inside the package and making sure that it's compliant, that

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Speaker 2: it's accurate, that it's safe. And so that is certainly

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Speaker 2: a steer that we have to wrestle with here. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you look at the story we have on the

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Speaker 2: ohiopres network, we have them, we have pictures there gushers

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Speaker 2: and then you have other smaller branded gushers. That is confusing.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, that's probably an intellectual property issue.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. I can't

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Speaker 2: believe somebody has to sue those distributors. Right, So, yes,

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Speaker 2: those are issues that I think we have to wrestle with.

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Speaker 2: But again, I think we do it legislatively. But here's

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Speaker 2: the other issue I want to bring up, Brian, because

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Speaker 2: I think I think it needs to be discussed. I

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Speaker 2: have a fundamental issue. If we're going to do this

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Speaker 2: the same way that we did casinos, we created a cartel.

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Speaker 2: We created a government monopoly. And if you're telling me

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Speaker 2: that in order to sell hemp you have to now

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Speaker 2: do it through the handful of dispensaries that our government approved,

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Speaker 2: I think that creates another government created monopoly, and I

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Speaker 2: think that stifles competition. And I'm not for that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It does, and we outright rejected that cartel situation. The

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Speaker 1: voters of Ohio, the ones that approved legalization in marijuana,

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Speaker 1: ultimately said hell no to these hands selected what we

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Speaker 1: always referred to as cartel members. I remember talking to

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Speaker 1: the people who were behind the effort, and when you

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Speaker 1: look behind the scenes, Gee, I wonder how somebody was

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Speaker 1: hand selected. Oh, it's because you're John Bayner and you're

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Speaker 1: part of one of the collectives that is pushing for

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Speaker 1: one of these licenses. So, and it was supposed to

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Speaker 1: go into the Constitution at the time as well. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, what a train wreck that was. So nobody

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Speaker 1: out there in the Ohio population wants to go down

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Speaker 1: that road, Jack Ones or I agree with you. Now,

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Speaker 1: is there something in connection with the chemical nature of

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Speaker 1: this intoxicating himp? Because I know law enforcements always struggling

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Speaker 1: and legislators elect officials always struggling with they come out

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Speaker 1: with a designer drug which is not on anybody's field

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Speaker 1: of vision. It doesn't exist. It comes up one day,

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Speaker 1: it gets people whacked out of their mind, but it's

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Speaker 1: not scheduled. They have to pass a lass scheduling that

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Speaker 1: new compound. Is there some component of that involved with

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Speaker 1: the type of THHC that's coming out of these concentrates.

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Speaker 2: I think that's exactly what's going to happen. This executive order.

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Speaker 2: I believe it has empowered the High Department of Agriculture

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Speaker 2: to determine what is intoxicating hemp and what is legal hemp. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: because intoxicating hemp will then be forbidden at least for

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Speaker 2: ninety days, unless the legislature says after thirty days no,

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Speaker 2: we're going to handle this. There's no more emergency order.

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Speaker 2: So I think what they're going to have to wrestle

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Speaker 2: with is exactly what you're talking about. What is the

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Speaker 2: concentration level. And we're going to have to get that

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Speaker 2: stuff though over the finish line in bills, not executive orders,

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Speaker 2: and so I think that's where this will shake out.

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Speaker 2: The challenge that we're going to run into is the

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Speaker 2: governor's intoxicating hemp Band has already drawn a lawsuit. The

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Speaker 2: Ohio Healthy Alternatives Association said Thursday it's suing to block

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Speaker 2: the executive action. So this will likely get tied up

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Speaker 2: in court. So potentially that executive order might you know,

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Speaker 2: a judge might issue a stay while this plays out

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Speaker 2: in court. Yeah, and so we're going to have time

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Speaker 2: to figure all that out. Well.

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Speaker 1: If they issue an injunction, that is a suggestive of

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Speaker 1: likelihood of success on the merits, meaning those who are

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Speaker 1: seeking to stop this executive order. If they get an injunction,

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Speaker 1: then the court has already determined that maybe something was wrong.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have the authority to do it, he overstepped

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Speaker 1: his boundary. This is something that belongs to the legislative branch,

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Speaker 1: so popcorns out on that one. Jack Windsor will see

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Speaker 1: what happens. Points well taken this morning, I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: We'll pause now, we'll bring you back. See if you

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Speaker 1: can unpackage property tax in the state of Ohio. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Bill Sites's Property Tax Working Group has issued their recommendations.

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Speaker 1: More with Jack Windsor after these brief words stick around

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Speaker 1: fifty five KRC. It's eighteen on a Friday. Happy Friday

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Speaker 1: to you bottom of the hour. We're gonna hear from

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Speaker 1: Corey Bowman aka jd Vance's half brother, Cute Shoe on

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Speaker 1: the rundown and anytime Jack Wins is on the front.

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Speaker 1: He's a editor in chief of the Ohio Press Network

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Speaker 1: Final on line ad of course, the Ohio Pressnetwork dot com.

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Speaker 1: Real quick comment on the last topic, Jack, question from

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Speaker 1: one of my listeners on an instant message, Well, Governor

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Speaker 1: to Wine, build a build a wall to block the

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Speaker 1: borders from Ohio to Kentucky and maybe Indiana in order

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Speaker 1: to keep intoxicating hemp products out. I guess the next

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Speaker 1: question on that real Briefly, Jack Windsor, this doesn't stop

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Speaker 1: people from ordering it online and having it delivered to

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Speaker 1: their front door does it.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question, and that's a question that

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Speaker 2: I didn't have an answer to yesterday, and I'm still

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Speaker 2: trying to discern. The initial answer was no, they can

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Speaker 2: still do the mail order thing, but I was warned

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Speaker 2: yesterday that that might be a sticky area. So if

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Speaker 2: that's what you're doing, I don't want to give any

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Speaker 2: legal advice. And frankly, again, I think that there's probably

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Speaker 2: going to be an injunction issued because HEMP is legal

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Speaker 2: and there are not laws essentially being broken, and so

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Speaker 2: you have an executive order to me that does not

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Speaker 2: have a law to backstop it. So I think we're

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Speaker 2: kind of in murky water here. I think the best

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Speaker 2: wine is going to get is a pause, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to probably have to get the lawmakers involved, and

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Speaker 2: I think they're frankly between you and me. As we

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Speaker 2: toggle to this next topic, I think lawmakers are collectively

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Speaker 2: rolling their eyes like there goes the governor again, you know,

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Speaker 2: trying to trying to play congressional representative or state lawmaker

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Speaker 2: instead of playing governor. And I think they're about to

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Speaker 2: take the reins on this.

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Speaker 1: Right, he'll get smacked by the courts and then the lawmakers,

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Speaker 1: recognizing the obvious need for some fixes and some holes

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Speaker 1: in the bucket being plugged, should act very quickly. This

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Speaker 1: seems like a no brainer, Jack, All right, what isn't

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Speaker 1: a no property tax Working Group and the recommendations. We've

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Speaker 1: got a serious problem in the state of Ohio, so

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Speaker 1: much so there's a bout initiative to eliminate all property

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Speaker 1: tax as a constitutional amendment. And I know that's got

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Speaker 1: a lot of people quicking in their boots, and I

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Speaker 1: sort of smile over the concept because I love the

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Speaker 1: idea of not having property taxes. But the Charlie foxtrot

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Speaker 1: reality of having no property taxes up ends the whole

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Speaker 1: financing structure for parks and police and fire and local

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Speaker 1: issues and school boards. And are we going to let

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Speaker 1: Columbus decide where the money goes and are they going

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Speaker 1: to collect some extra sales tax whatever. But that, of

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Speaker 1: course has resulted in the Property Tax Working Group on

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Speaker 1: the heels of the veto of three provisions that would

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Speaker 1: have provided some measure of relief for o High as

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Speaker 1: it was in the budget. Dwine promised that none of

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Speaker 1: the Property Tax Working Group is going to give us

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Speaker 1: some great ideas and here they are. Is there anything

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Speaker 1: in this Property Tax Working Group that you can explain

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Speaker 1: to my listeners, because as I read it, my eyes

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Speaker 1: gloss over jacket really is painful to read.

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Speaker 2: Let me take two tracks here. The first one is

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Speaker 2: to shed light on how serious this is. I believe,

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Speaker 2: based on my conversations with lawmakers, Brian, that lawmakers take

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Speaker 2: Governor Dowin's Property Tax Reform Working Group, stacked with lobbyists

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Speaker 2: who have vested interest in maintaining the status quo, about

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Speaker 2: as seriously as guys like you and me would take

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Speaker 2: a toddler's crayon scribbled business plan for running a lemonade

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Speaker 2: stand empire. I mean, it's king, but at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, we're looking at a toddler's work. That's

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Speaker 2: totally how I feel that lawmakers are looking at this,

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Speaker 2: and you're right, real quick, Just a reminder, Originally County

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Speaker 2: Budget Commission authority would have been increased in the budget,

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Speaker 2: cash balance carryovers for schools would have been restricted, a

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Speaker 2: revamp at the twenty mili floor calculation would have been

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Speaker 2: in play, and school district levee levees would have been

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Speaker 2: restricted because it would have take away misnomers like emergency

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Speaker 2: and replacement levees. Dwine didn't like those, But here's at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, No, when you talk about one,

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Speaker 2: lawmakers are not taking this seriously. So regardless of what

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Speaker 2: they did or didn't do, I don't think it's going

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Speaker 2: to make a bit of difference. But it was a

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Speaker 2: symbolic gesture. I mean, there was some focus on short

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Speaker 2: term fixes, like they would move the carryover balance that

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Speaker 2: schools could carry over to one hundred percent instead of

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Speaker 2: forty percent. They would create this five year glide path

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Speaker 2: for levies, which essentially says, look their grandfathers, you can't

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Speaker 2: cut them right. And there was a lot of support

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Speaker 2: for existing pieces of legislation, and so to me, it

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Speaker 2: shied away from radical overhauls, prioritizing what they would call

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Speaker 2: fairness and transparency over deep cuts. And at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, Brian, I think you hit it nail

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Speaker 2: on the head. At the beginning, this feels like we're

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Speaker 2: rearranging deck furniture on the Titanic because property taxes might

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Speaker 2: be a sinking ship in the state of Ohio. Citizens

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Speaker 2: said all right, lawmakers listened, They put it in the budget.

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Speaker 2: Dwind vetoed and now they didthered right and they came

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Speaker 2: up with this twenty point plan that doesn't seem to

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Speaker 2: make a damn bit of difference for the average taxpayer.

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Speaker 2: I think what this has done is it has increased

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Speaker 2: interest in totally slashing property tax is making them, you know, unconstitutional.

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Speaker 2: That's where I think we're at.

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Speaker 1: How did let me just test the waters, Jack windsor

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Speaker 1: how does that play out in reality? Going back to

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Speaker 1: my point, you take away the local property tax issues,

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Speaker 1: you take away the local levy issues because there's no

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Speaker 1: more property tax. How does how do you sort of

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Speaker 1: deal with the aftermath?

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Speaker 2: Jack? Yeah, no, fair question, And I'm really glad that

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Speaker 2: you're holding my feet to the fire on this. The

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Speaker 2: example I'll give you that's cheeky is if you ever

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Speaker 2: taken a drug of choice away from an addict, an

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Speaker 2: addict will always find a way to get their drug

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Speaker 2: of choice, you know, all things being equal. Well, you're

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Speaker 2: trying to take money away from people addicted to power

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Speaker 2: and money. Eventually they're going to figure out a way

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Speaker 2: to get their money. And so I think the real

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Speaker 2: question is has it been done before? And the answer

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Speaker 2: is yes, places like Wyoming Tennessee, Nevada, Florida, Washington, they

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Speaker 2: have a state income tax of zero. Now in Ohio

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Speaker 2: we have a two point seventy five percent flat tax.

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Speaker 2: I think we're headed to zero there, but right now

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Speaker 2: it's two point seven and five percent. Those other states

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Speaker 2: that I just named, they have zero point six percent

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Speaker 2: point sixty six point six to eight point eight nine

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Speaker 2: point ninety two, almost zero, but not zero property tax.

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Speaker 2: And so ultimately, if we have two point seventy five

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Speaker 2: percent income tax, that buoy's some of that money. It's

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Speaker 2: just we're going to have to change the Ohio Revised

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Speaker 2: Code and rules and the Higo Administrative Code on how

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Speaker 2: money flows through to those entities, particularly schools, fire departments,

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Speaker 2: and police departments. But overall, when you look at this

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Speaker 2: these other states, you know, no income tax, low property tax.

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Speaker 2: What do they do? Then they rely on sales tax

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Speaker 2: seven to ten percent, or excise taxes or business taxes.

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Speaker 2: So there are other revenue streams, and what we will

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Speaker 2: simply see is an increase in those taxes and in

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Speaker 2: those assessments. But I'm going to go back to if

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Speaker 2: you ever take a drug of choice away from an addict,

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Speaker 2: they always find their drug of choice. I don't think

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Speaker 2: we're going to have an issue with the General Assembly

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Speaker 2: or other people in power finding a way to get

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Speaker 2: the money that they want. We're going to have to.

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Speaker 2: We all like change, right, It's the transition that sucks.

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Speaker 2: It's the transition that's going to be tough because we're

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Speaker 2: going to have to go from relying on property taxes

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Speaker 2: to fund these things to relying on other revenue streams.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately, I think that's what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're gonna have to get ahead of the curve

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Speaker 1: on this property tax issue where they look at the

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Speaker 1: work of property tax working group stuff, or some go

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Speaker 1: down some other path because they're going to have a

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Speaker 1: lot of work to do in elected capacity. If we

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Speaker 1: repeal the property tax in Ohio, they're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: do a lot of work to do. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 1: for sid Jack Windsor, you can find him again at

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Speaker 1: the Ohio Press Network and we'll look for you online,

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Speaker 1: Jack Winsor, appreciate what you do. Man. You're always welcome

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Speaker 1: here on the fifty five Kersea Morning. You should have

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Speaker 1: a great weekend, brother Brian, you too, Thank you. Take

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Speaker 1: care