1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: Well, today, the defense rested in the case of Brian Walsh. 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: That is the case in which he is charged with 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: murdering and dismembering and taking the body parts of his 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: wife Anna and distributing them in dumpsters around the Greater 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: Boston area. This is a horrific case. It dates back 7 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 2: to New Year's Day of twenty twenty three. They celebrate. 8 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: I think everybody knows the story. They had a small 9 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: gathering at their home in Cohact with just one other person. 10 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: They had dinner and ended and something happened. I think 11 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: all of you have some maliarity with the case. But 12 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: the development today is astonishing in that the defense they 13 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: was their turn to to mount their defense and present 14 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: their case to the jury, and the defense rested without 15 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 2: calling one witness. Now, the lawyers for Brian Walsh in 16 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: their opening statements had implied pretty clearly that that Walsh 17 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: was going to get on the witness stand. And if 18 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: you don't believe me, let's listen to a couple of 19 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: sound bites. I'm also joined by Phil Tracy who's listening 20 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: Willhouse as well. Hey, Phil, how are you welcome. I 21 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: didn't didn't want to ignore you, but I want you 22 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: to hear what we're going to talk about, which is 23 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: which includes a couple of sound bites here from the 24 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: opening statements by the defense attorney, Attorney Larry Tifton on this. 25 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: So I think this is going to weigh the foundation 26 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: for what we're going to focus on tonight. This is 27 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: cut number thirty one. Please, Rob, you'll hear. 28 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 3: Evidence in now he is hannay and he doesn't understand 29 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 3: what has happened and. 30 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 4: What is happening. It didn't make any sense. 31 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 5: It didn't make sense that somebody that he had just 32 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 5: been with and enjoyed New Year's e into New Year's 33 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 5: Day would suddenly be dead. 34 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: Oh and then there's two other bites here there a 35 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: little longer, But listen carefully, because he talks about He 36 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 2: says to the jury, you will hear evidence of unexplained deaths. 37 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: And the implication to me is that the defendant who 38 00:02:54,960 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 2: has pled guilty in a surprise move before the trial 39 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: in chief started, he pled guilty to misleading police and 40 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: also disposing of body parts his wife's Swati. Cut number 41 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: thirty two, Rob. 42 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 4: You will hear evidence that it is written. 43 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: You will hear evidence that it happens in young people 44 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: and old You will hear evidence it happens in male 45 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: and feeding. 46 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 4: You will hear evidence it happens during. 47 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 3: The day and during the night, that it happens. 48 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 4: Be trained evidence. You will hear evidence that it can 49 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 4: be the result of both. 50 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 3: Mechanical and are electrical problems within the body. 51 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 4: You will hear evidence that it. 52 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 5: Might be carnivascueler, pulmonary, neurological, are other reasons. 53 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 4: You will hear evidence. 54 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: That it occurs in people who have never manifested a 55 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: symptom that something might be wrong. 56 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 4: And in fact, you will hear evidence. 57 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes the first manifestation that something is or was 58 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 3: wrong with someone. 59 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 4: Is the sudden undersluming. That's the end of here. 60 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: Is now the roadmap that the defense attorney presented in 61 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: his opening argument is opening statement of the jury is 62 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: not evidence. He's talking about evidence that would come in 63 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,559 Speaker 2: in testimony. And the implication to me was pretty clear. 64 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,239 Speaker 2: Brian Walsh was going to go on and talk about 65 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: going upstairs and finding his wife and not knowing what 66 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: to do. One more SoundBite, then we're gonna go to 67 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: attorney Tracy cut thirty three, rob. 68 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 4: Mine Wallas upstairs. He went back down to the kitchen 69 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 4: about an hour later to clean it up, and then impossible, 70 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 4: the unimaginably. 71 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it didn't make sense to Brian Wall. 72 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 4: It was confused. He never thought anybody would. 73 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: Believe that Anna Walsh was alive one minute and dead 74 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 3: the next. 75 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 4: Well he could think about it were those three boys. 76 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 5: What would happen to their three boys now that An 77 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 5: is no longer here. 78 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: What will happen if they think he did something bad 79 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 3: to end? 80 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 4: Where will those three boys go? 81 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 6: And so. 82 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 7: He lock. 83 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 4: He's trying to hope so he could hang on to 84 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 4: those boys. 85 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: Pretty dramatic. But in the words of a nineteen eighties 86 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: television commercial, where's the beef, Phil Tracy, where's the beef? 87 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 7: Well, you know, we were shocked at the beginning of 88 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 7: the case, and we were shocked day and I'm talking 89 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 7: about the court of public opinion and everyday citizens, lawyers, doctors, plumbers, whatever, 90 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 7: if they're following this case, they have to say to 91 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 7: themselves what is going on? Because at least they should 92 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 7: have called a doctor forensic evidence that yes, people can 93 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 7: die in their sleep, or they can just drop dead. 94 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 7: But the reality is they use the government's medical examiner 95 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 7: to say, can this happen? And he said, yes, it 96 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 7: can happen, but not to a young, vibrant, healthy, a 97 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 7: person was working out all the time. Traveling just doesn't 98 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 7: happen to those type of people. A thirty nine year 99 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 7: old woman, Yeah, thirty nine, the prime in the prime 100 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 7: of life. Uh. 101 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: That witness was obviously a prosecution witness. It was on 102 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: cross examination, Yeah, prosecution witness. He's uh, you know, Tifton 103 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: is questioning the prosecution witness and the prosecution witness is 104 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: not giving him what he wants, and the prosecution witness 105 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: can it says yes, but it's rare. 106 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 6: He could. 107 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: I Uh, I believe that there was every suggestion up 108 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: until yesterday that Walsh, you know, very rarely would would 109 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: you ever put a defendant on the witness stand in 110 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: a murder case, never mind a defendant with against whom 111 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: so much compelling, circumstantial evidence existed. Videotapes, videotapes of him 112 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:59,559 Speaker 2: pushing a market card with with equipment that that he bought, 113 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: and uh, and tools and and that that you know. 114 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: The point they're going to make is that these were 115 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: the tools that he used to to dismember the wife. 116 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: And do you think who's calling the shots in this case? 117 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: Phil is the defensive. 118 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 7: That's let me let me say this. I think that 119 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 7: the defendant had a lot to say about how he 120 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 7: wanted the case tried, and that would lead you to 121 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 7: believe that he said, let's plead on the two charges 122 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 7: of dismembering and line to the police and withholding evidence 123 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 7: from the police, and then try the case. And then 124 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 7: of course, uh excellently in an excellent fashion. The prosecution, 125 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 7: unlike other cases we've seen recently, they were able to 126 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 7: put the case together with evidence, and they were able 127 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 7: to use forensic evidence and circumstance of evidence that put 128 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 7: a great case together fast, which is sometimes is a 129 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 7: very good thing for the prosecution. The OJ Simpson case 130 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 7: was an example of the length of a prosecution's case 131 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 7: can destroy the case. Now he goes or that I 132 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 7: would be if I was his. Listen, you cannot get 133 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 7: on the stand. They'll rip you apart with this scientific evidence. 134 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 7: They'll show a picture of you again with your son 135 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 7: after you allegedly dismembered his mother's body. How they connect 136 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 7: get I mean, there aren't many cases that we've seen. 137 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 7: This isn't like two gang members shooting each other. It 138 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 7: isn't like drug dealers shooting each other. It isn't like 139 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 7: mobsters shooting each other. This is cold blooded, pre determined, 140 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 7: with malice of forethought. He was, you know, I think 141 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 7: they put in a great case. Now, can it happen 142 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 7: that one person can hold out like a dura a 143 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 7: rogue duror that can happen. But I think this will 144 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 7: be a decision of conviction and honor the woman that's 145 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 7: been gone now. I think her children are in Europe 146 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 7: with her mother. But what a sad case. 147 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: I was surprised that the timing today of the defense resting. 148 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: I mean, the expectation I assumed that the judge had 149 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 2: was that the defense is going to use at least 150 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: a couple of days and the case would go over 151 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 2: to next Monday. I'm surprised that she is having the 152 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 2: closing arguments tomorrow, and unless there's an unexpected problem, the 153 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 2: jury likely will have this case sometime tomorrow in the 154 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: early afternoon. 155 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 7: Yes, that's correct. And jurors in the old days, they 156 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,119 Speaker 7: were sequested, you know, they were put in the hotel. 157 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 7: They don't do that anymore. But nevertheless, these jurors, like 158 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 7: the read case ures. You know, they've been through the 159 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 7: ringer here, they've gone through the process of elimination, and 160 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 7: they have come into the jury doing their civic duty. 161 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 7: But I think they want to go home. So based 162 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 7: on the evidence I've seen, and you've seen, and the 163 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 7: public has seen, which doesn't include what he said in 164 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 7: the opening or what he says in the closing, meaning 165 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 7: the defense counsel that's not evidence. Judge will tell them, 166 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 7: don't believe anything they said. Their job is to explain 167 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 7: to you what they think the evidence was, but it's 168 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 7: not to say that what they say is definitely the evidence. 169 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 2: Well, but they can in the close make an argument 170 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: to the jury which if they can persuade the jury 171 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: that this fact and this fact when connected with this fact, 172 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: takes the jury toward toward this type of verdict, they 173 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 2: had that ability to do that. Obviously, the prosecution has 174 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: a much easier time of it tomorrow with their closing 175 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: to say, think about this, think about this, Think about that. 176 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 2: You're a reasonable person. Everybody in the jury's reasonable. Is 177 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: this action's reasonable? You know? Checking being on a computer 178 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 2: trying to figure rug how to dispose of a body, 179 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: had a lot of planning, a lot of a lot 180 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 2: of thought. Here cool is a cucumber walking through that? 181 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: The Uh that that that strike? I guess it was 182 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: a low store. I'm not sure if it was Lows 183 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: or home depot. I think it was Lows picking out 184 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: pretty casually, like someone might on a spring day pick 185 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 2: out a bag of grass seed and maybe a. 186 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 7: One case with one of the children with them. Yeah, 187 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 7: that that frosts is a line that I don't believe 188 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 7: anybody could stand can stand. 189 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: Let's let me let me do this for let me, 190 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: I've gone long along with you. Let me take a 191 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: quick break. We'll come back. We'll invite callers to call 192 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: if they'd like to ask a question. I know at 193 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: this point, uh, some people probably have not even heard now. 194 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: The case is not gone to the jury yet. It 195 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 2: will get to the jury at some point tomorrow absent 196 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: you know, if a couple of juries call in sick 197 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: tomorrow or and there always can be a problem. But 198 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: assuming it goes as the judge has scheduled, this jury 199 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: should have the case sometime by one on one thirty. 200 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: We could have a verdict tomorrow night. We could be 201 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: talking this time tomorrow night about a verdict. I don't 202 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: think it will be an acquittal. And the best that 203 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: I think the defense can hope for at this point 204 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: is that, as you said, that one one juror wants 205 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: to basically engage in what's called jury nullification. Let's take 206 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: a break. It will invite people to call get their 207 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: impressions as well. If you want to ask Phil Tracy 208 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: a question six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty 209 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: six one seven, nine three one ten thirty two five four, 210 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: ten thirty or nine three one, ten thirty six one 211 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 2: seven is the area code? UH? Love to know what 212 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: you thought when you heard today that the defense rested 213 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: and no witnesses were called, not even an expert witness, 214 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: UH to make the case U of what they were 215 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 2: calling sudden unexpected death. Back on Nightside right after this. 216 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Ray on Boston's news radio. 217 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: Joined by attorney Phil Tracy, and we're talking about the 218 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: Brian Walsh case that I've never seen. Phil, you have 219 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: much more experience in this than I do in the courtroom. 220 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: I've never seen anything that is close to this. Is 221 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: there any case that comes to your mind? 222 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 7: Well, I mean, there are cases in which there's no 223 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 7: body and that I'm remembered. I'm reminded of the Durst case. 224 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 7: That was the case from several years ago where he 225 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 7: eventually was convicted of some murder, but he was acquitted 226 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 7: of a murder in which he didn't in which they 227 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 7: didn't ever body. That's the only thing that's arguable about 228 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 7: this case is that there is no body. 229 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: Right, and the premise there is that, well, maybe somebody 230 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 2: just took off. But when you have this amount. 231 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 7: Of DNA. 232 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: It's available, I think it's a it's a strong case. 233 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: And I don't know if there I believe at some 234 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: point in common law, meaning going back to the English days, 235 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: that if there was nobody there could be no murder charge. 236 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 7: That maybe so, I'm not familiar with it. But from 237 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 7: this perspective, again, the idea of the prosecution pushing a 238 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 7: case without a body is just ludicrous because it doesn't happen. 239 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 7: They had plenty of evidence, They had the evidence that 240 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 7: indicated uh, not only he had some motive, insurance policies, 241 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 7: problems in the marriage, the idea of a separate form 242 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 7: in Washington, and her situation of complaining too friends that 243 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 7: I'm not happy in the marriage and things aren't going well. 244 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 7: There's so much stuff collateral to the to the forensic evidence. 245 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also it's also the evidence of her clothes, 246 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: her identification. I believe her COVID identification guard was found 247 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 2: in one of the dumpsterstates. There's a lot, there's. 248 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 7: So much just you know, I think that. You know, 249 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 7: the sad part of this is there are three orphans 250 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 7: and he'll go to jail. She's gone. I hope they 251 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 7: live good lives in Europe with her mother, but you know, 252 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 7: they might have been in massive juss for the rest 253 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 7: of their life. And think about this, the horror of that. 254 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 255 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 7: Again, I mean I feel terrible for the for the 256 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 7: for her family and her friends. Uh. He is an 257 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 7: evil person. I think he has a criminal mind. He 258 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 7: already had been convicted of some sort of theft in 259 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 7: the federal court. I think he had other case bounced checks, 260 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 7: this type of thing. He's not an He doesn't have 261 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 7: a cent of one percent of sympathy from the public. 262 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 2: He surely carries himself, which which the jury easy. The 263 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: jury may not know. 264 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 7: The language is big. He has terrible, terrible wide language 265 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 7: in court he looks obnoxious. He looks like this is 266 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 7: a big joke, and he may have made it into 267 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 7: a big joke by forcing his lawyers to provolt this 268 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 7: irrational story. 269 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 2: When we get back, I want to go to phone calls, 270 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: but I also want to You made the observation that Tifton, 271 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: the lawyer who's handling this case, sat behind him, removed 272 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: from him as the plea was put in, and there 273 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: might signal something. We'll get to that, but we'll also 274 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 2: get the phone call. So stay right there. Phil Tracy, 275 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 2: Attorney Phil Tracy is with me. We're talking about the 276 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: Brian Walsh murder case. The defense that I arrested without 277 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 2: calling a single witness, despite having I think suggested pretty 278 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: strongly in their opening remarks that this jury would hear 279 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: from the defendant himself, Brian Walsh, and if not from him, 280 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: at least from medical experts from defense medical experts, which 281 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: would make the case for an unexplained death, sudden death, 282 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 2: which is really their last line of defense. If you'd 283 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: like to ask a question or make a comment, six 284 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: one seven two thirty six one seven nine thirty Back 285 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: on Nightside right after this. 286 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan ray On Boston's News Radio. 287 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: Back with Phil Tracy here talking about this well, extraordinary 288 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: decision by the defense today. It came across to me 289 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,239 Speaker 2: philis being a last minute decision. But let's do this. 290 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 2: Let's get some callers involved here as well. If you're 291 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 2: ready to take a couple of phone calls, Phil All said, sure, right, 292 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: let's go. Okay, gonna go to Steve in North End Over. 293 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: Steve you first, this hour with Phil Tracy and Nightside 294 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: talking about the Brian Walsh murder case. They rested today 295 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: without calling a witness, including either Brian Walsh himself or 296 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: an expert witness to argue in the case of unexpected, 297 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 2: unexplained sudden death. 298 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 6: Oh Dan, thanks for taking my call. 299 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: You're welcome. Say hey, do Phil Tracy go right ahead. Steve. 300 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: What's your comment question? 301 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 6: I thought you. I know you're a seasoned veteran. I 302 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 6: hear you on here all the time, so I wanted 303 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 6: to get your opinion. I know you mentioned you mentioned 304 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 6: kind of the Karen Reid case here and a relationship here. 305 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 6: But it's interesting because you've got all the evidence in 306 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 6: the world here against Brian Walsh with no body and 307 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 6: in the Karen Reid case, you had basically no evidence 308 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 6: by design with a body that had evidence on it, 309 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 6: and you had some of the same mass State Police 310 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 6: officers that were testifying and on the witness stand in 311 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 6: the same case that treated the case and the collection 312 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 6: of evidence differently in both cases. And I just want 313 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 6: to get your take on that. I think it's you know, 314 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 6: mass Jusetts is in the spotlight right now. And I've 315 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 6: used this term before when I talked to Dan. We're 316 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 6: a laughing stock right now based on what happened in 317 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 6: that Karen Reid case, And just want to get your 318 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 6: take on that. 319 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 7: Well. I think that one of the problems for the 320 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 7: state police is a ten to fifteen year downward spiral 321 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 7: in professionalism and problems with the state police. But in 322 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 7: this case, I believe a cohacit detective and they don't 323 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 7: have any murders in go Acid. He took the bow 324 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 7: by the horns and was assisted by state police. But 325 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 7: the evidence gathering was fantastic from the police side. They 326 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 7: got to the dumpsters, they got the video cameras, and 327 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 7: now you turn that over to a season prosecutor, Greg Connor, 328 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 7: and he did a fabulous job of concisely putting the 329 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 7: case together. As I mentioned before, sometimes a case goes 330 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 7: on too long, the prosecution loses the jury because they 331 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 7: you know, they get tired, and they might be a 332 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 7: whimsical about, you know, convicting somebody. I don't think this 333 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 7: is going to happen here. I think that they put 334 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 7: a tight case in. Then the defense, Now the Jews 335 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 7: would be thinking this too. They were probably thinking, well, 336 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 7: didn't you get up and say at the beginning that 337 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 7: Walsh was going to testify, and that would make them 338 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 7: feel strange about the whole thing. Maybe they will now 339 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 7: assume that the evidence was so overwhelming that he and 340 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 7: his lawyer said, I can't get on the stand because 341 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 7: the prosecutional be handing me hatchet. Do you recognize this item? 342 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 7: He could say no, He could say yes, I did 343 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 7: buy it, but I never used it, something like that. 344 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 7: But what I'm saying is they would put if I 345 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 7: was protesting, I would take the hacksaw, I would take 346 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 7: the clothes that were found it, and I would show 347 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 7: the video and I'd say is this you? And of 348 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 7: course he'd have to say yes. So cross examination would 349 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 7: have been of prosecutor's dream dream come true in this case. 350 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: I believe also it came out in the trial that 351 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: all of these supplies, the cleanup supplies that he bought, 352 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: as well as maybe some of the tools that dismembered her. 353 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 2: He used her credit card. 354 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 7: I think he used a rewards card, which is like, 355 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 7: I guess my wife gets them all the time, drop 356 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 7: and rewards guys. 357 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I believe it was in the name of 358 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: his wife somehow. 359 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 7: Yeah, it was in the name absolutely. 360 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 361 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 6: So what do you what do you what do you 362 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 6: make of the fact that the officers involved in the investigation, 363 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 6: in the collection of evidence behaved totally differently in that 364 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 6: case versus the Karen Reid case, where it appears that 365 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 6: they were either you know, at as at best, they 366 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 6: were sloppy. At worst, they were taking direction from somebody 367 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 6: from the top, maybe even Morrissey or others in the 368 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 6: mass State Police on how to do a sloppy investigation. 369 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was, Steve, I understand what you're saying here, 370 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 2: But there was no indication entered that anyone was taking directions. 371 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: In talking about the Michael Procter case, those were Proctor's 372 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 2: own emails in the Karen Reid case, which were misogynistic 373 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 2: and distasteful, and it might have been that in this case. 374 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 2: If believe me, if if the if the defense in 375 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 2: the Walsh case had discovered any inappropriate actions or activity, uh, 376 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: they would have brought that to the attention and might 377 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: have been able to argue with the the prosecutor in 378 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: the case that we're going to put Procter back on 379 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: the stand and we're gonna we're gonna go after him 380 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: just as we did, as as others did in the 381 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: in the Read case. I think it's conceivable that that 382 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 2: Proctor might have might might have handled this case properly. 383 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 2: Maybe the state police handled this properly. Maybe there was 384 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 2: nothing there for the defense to work with. Is that possible, phil. 385 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 7: Well? I don't think the or any of the other 386 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 7: people played a very big part in this case. And 387 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 7: I think that uh, you know, whether they were handling 388 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 7: things sloppily, sloppy, Uh, that came to the fruition for 389 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 7: the defense to say, you know, they watched and what 390 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 7: they would have tried to do. Would you say this 391 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 7: is a pattern of bad, bad police work, whereas in 392 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 7: this case, I think not so much to say police, 393 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 7: but the Cohasset police got the case right. It's what's 394 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 7: had about this case is, if you think about it, 395 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 7: they had to find the dumpsters, they had to get 396 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 7: the videos. They really thoroughly. Whoever was the lead proscal 397 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 7: with his team, they did a great job. 398 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 2: They had to get those dumpsters before the dumpsters were 399 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 2: said to a landfill. 400 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 7: And the probably probably right, you'd be going to the 401 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 7: landfill instead of the dumpsters. 402 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: Which obviously is a much more difficult. Yeah, the area 403 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 2: it was difficult to search, and they may have ended 404 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 2: up in a lamdfill, but they had to make sure 405 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 2: that they knew where the truck that would have picked 406 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: up this material. Yeah, Steve has dropped off. He wasn't 407 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: cut off, but I think that he was trying to 408 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: link the two cases, and I guess Procter. 409 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 7: And I was, I don't see the link at all. 410 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I mean. 411 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 7: He's a smart man. He knows that there's been what 412 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 7: I said at the beginning, I mean the four State Police, 413 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 7: the good state police officers are being tarnished by some 414 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 7: renegade rogues. Think of the guy that Yeah. 415 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: I got to take a quick break here, focus and 416 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: pass my break. We got Bob and Cambridge Laurier and 417 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 2: IHO's coming up. We got roove. You'd like to talk 418 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: with Phil Tracy six one seven four ten thirty six 419 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: one seven nine ten thirty Back on night Side after 420 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: this brief commercial break. 421 00:28:53,160 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan Ray Boston's news Radio. 422 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 2: We're talking with Phil Tracy here about the murder case 423 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: that rested today, the Brian Walsh case. Let me go 424 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 2: to Bob and Cambridge. Bob, you're next time Nightsiger, right. 425 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 8: Ahead, Hello Dan, Hello, mister Tracy, thank you for you're welcome. 426 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: What's your question to comment? Go right hit Bob. 427 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 8: Well, I don't want to be disrespectful to you or 428 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 8: mister Tracy on the justice system, but you know what, 429 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 8: his trial is a bunch of foolishness. Okay, what should 430 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 8: happen to mister whatever his name is, I forget his name, 431 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 8: the guy that just muddled his white Welsh by a Walsh. 432 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 7: They just give him a. 433 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 8: Ride up to Shirley, Massachusetts. Welcome home, brother, and you 434 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 8: know when he goes when he goes in, it's not 435 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 8: going to be nothing like he gets stabbed. We're not 436 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 8: detam He's gonna go down and he'll be peace. But 437 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 8: you know what. The whole thing here is those children. 438 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 8: You know it's gonna be terrible for them. 439 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we do go through the justice system here, 440 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: we don't. We don't put people in in pitsmack lions 441 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: or anything like that, as to despicable as they might be. 442 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: Let's see what happens with the jury. If he gets convicted, 443 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 2: it's not going to be a pleasant, pleasant life for 444 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: him under any circumstances. Right, Thank you, Bob. I think 445 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people feel that way, and I understand 446 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 2: what he's saying. Self help is we got to go 447 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: through the jury system. It's as simple as that, Laurie. 448 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: Is that Idaho, Laurie, you're with Phil Tracy. Go right ahead, Laurie. 449 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 9: Good evening attorneys. Hi, So I also shocked today. Is 450 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 9: anybody to hear this this thing with them? I'm guessing 451 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 9: the judge, having probably spent a few hours preparing for 452 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 9: the defendant to be on the stand, probably wasn't pleased. 453 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 9: But I heard something else today. It surprised me, and 454 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 9: I don't know if this is a usual thing or not, 455 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 9: and I wanted your comments on it. I heard for 456 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 9: the first time today that the jury does not know 457 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 9: about the too guilty please, So what's up with that? 458 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: Well, they're not going to know in the context of 459 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: this trial. They may know about it. 460 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 7: They may know just conversation or whatever. The judge was 461 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 7: careful to say, don't look at the news, don't listen 462 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 7: to Phil Tracy and Dan Ray, because that could have 463 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 7: fact about only the evidence that was placed before you 464 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 7: through testimony and physical evidence. And if therever was one 465 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 7: case where physical evidence, forensic evidence was important, it's this 466 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 7: case with the hatchet and the tool and the stuff 467 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 7: to clean up. And you know, I've watched television and 468 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 7: been a lawyer for fifty years, and there's one thing. 469 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 7: They always can find blood. They have special tools like 470 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 7: a flashlight that picks up the blood. So this seems 471 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 7: to happen all the time. 472 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 9: M In a case like that, they can't use anything. 473 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 9: They can't use, they can't use anything in the two 474 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 9: earlier guilty fleet that they can they can you know, 475 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 9: use to make the decision they that. 476 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 7: That's an excellent question because what you're saying, you're asking 477 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 7: is they can hear uh stuff about the dismemberment and 478 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 7: the misleading of the police. They can hear testimony, they 479 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 7: can see testimony, but they can't say to the jury, 480 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 7: either the prosecutor or the defense in this case, they 481 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 7: can't say, like, I already played guilty to the dismembment 482 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 7: of the body, and they can't hear that. But as 483 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 7: Dan said, it's almost impossible. In today's world with all 484 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 7: of the stuff that's on TV, radio, on the phones, 485 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 7: on the internet, they probably know about it. 486 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 487 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: The principle to do with the. 488 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 7: Beginning is to say I will keep an open mind 489 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 7: until all the evidence is in. Now, that's where the 490 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 7: defense is questionable, because if you've brought that up at 491 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 7: the beginning in the opening and you didn't deliver that, 492 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,719 Speaker 7: they're going to be saying, what's this all about? I mean, 493 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 7: it's it seems to be a face of a defense. 494 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. The principle that we're talking about here is that 495 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: the prosecution cannot bring in in front of the jury 496 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: during the context of the trial, the fact that this 497 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 2: guy has pled out to two crimes, so serious crimes 498 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 2: associated with the crime for which you stand the trial, 499 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 2: because that would be considered to be so prejudicial that 500 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 2: you couldn't have a fair look. There are trials like 501 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 2: the Boston Bamba trial where I kind of imagined that 502 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 2: you could find the jury of twelve people who had 503 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 2: not heard about the Boston Bamba trial. And probably the 504 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 2: question is, Phil says Laurie, is that the lawyers for 505 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: both the prosecution and the defense, as well as the 506 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 2: judge need to be convinced that the jurors who have 507 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 2: been chosen through the voor Deer are coming to that 508 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 2: case with an open mind. Laurie, I got one more. 509 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to sneak in here. Thanks so much. 510 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 9: Now, thank you guys so much. That answers a lot 511 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 9: of questions. 512 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,879 Speaker 6: Thank you, No thanks, Laurie. 513 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: Thank you soon, Thank you soon. Let me go to 514 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 2: Carol and Randolph Carroll your next time. NIC's that with 515 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: Phil Tracy. 516 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 9: Go right ahead, Carol, Hi, Dan and Phil. 517 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 6: I mean, I'm. 518 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 10: Just so looking forward to tomorrow and what the defense 519 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 10: puts on is their argument. And Phil, I mean, you're 520 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 10: an attorney. 521 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 6: What is she going to say? 522 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 10: I thought she died and then I decided. 523 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 6: To chop her up. 524 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 10: I mean there was no one, there was nothing. 525 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that. God'm sorry. I didn't mean to 526 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 7: cut you off. Go ahead, you're right on track. It's 527 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 7: an excellent question. What can you say now that you 528 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 7: said something in the opening that you haven't been able 529 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 7: to produce. It's a very difficult. I think they'll have 530 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 7: to do the best they can in saying there is 531 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 7: two things. There is nobody and sudden depth can occur. 532 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 7: People drop dead, they call it, or they die in 533 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 7: their sleep, and it can happen. But the expert for 534 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 7: the Commonwealth said, it's very rare that this would ever happen, 535 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 7: and again reasonable doubt doesn't. It's not beyond any doubt, 536 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 7: it's beyond reasonable doubt. So it's reasonable. 537 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 10: Somebody you left passes away in their sleep, you're gonna 538 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 10: try and revive them, if you love them, if you're 539 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 10: gonna call nine to one one and be personally. 540 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: The jurors are going to think the same way. 541 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 7: That's a bad decide, Carol. 542 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 2: Look, the jurors are going to think exactly like you think. 543 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 2: The defense lawyer, and I mentioned earlier, the defense lawyer 544 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 2: was not sitting at the defense table when he took 545 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 2: those two pleas. Phil you mentioned that after that was completed, 546 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 2: only then did he go up and and to present 547 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 2: himself as a defense lawyer. He probably did not agree 548 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: with that theory. Uh, and the theory I think it's 549 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: come back to bite the defendant. 550 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 10: I mean, you guys are both attorneys. I mean, how 551 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 10: do you sit there with a with a guy like 552 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 10: this and try and defend him the same the same. 553 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 2: Way, the same way, Phil, let me answer that real quickly, 554 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 2: the same way that when when when a doctor's on 555 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 2: duty and they bring a guy in who's been suffering 556 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 2: from a bulletproof wound. He was in a fight, we 557 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 2: killed a couple of police officers and he's wounded. The 558 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 2: doctor will provide medical treatment. Everybody. 559 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:16,760 Speaker 7: Everybody is right, unless the defendant tells you he's lying 560 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 7: and is going to testify and lie, then you back 561 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 7: away from the case. That's the ethics of it. 562 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but everyone deserves to be to have their 563 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 2: day in court and to have you know, as best 564 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 2: representation within you. As Phil just said, But it's the 565 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 2: same principle as you know, when someone goes into a 566 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,439 Speaker 2: confessional and confesses to a priest a horrible crime, that 567 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 2: confession is theoretically sealed under the priest penitent exception. So 568 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 2: same way here you might feel your guy is guilty 569 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 2: or your gall is guilty, but your job is to 570 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 2: make the prosecution prove all the elements of the crime 571 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: beyond a reasonable doubt. I get it, all right, but 572 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 2: it's tough to understand. I get it, Carol. We're way 573 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 2: past our break, so I gotta let you run. Okay, 574 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 2: Thank you much. I talked to and Phil is always 575 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 2: thanks very much. Might have you on here quickly tomorrow 576 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 2: and keep us on speaking. 577 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll be around all right, all right, thank you. 578 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 2: Good night, all right, serious case. We will follow it 579 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 2: tomorrow for you, and we could potentially have a verdict 580 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 2: tomorrow night. And if you don't have a verdict tomorrow, 581 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 2: it's going to really raise some questions about that jury. 582 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 2: I we think we'll sing we're gonna change topics on 583 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 2: the other side at the ten o'clock news. Be right 584 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 2: back right after that.