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Speaker 1: This is one of the biggest news stories in the world,

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Speaker 1: and it's in our hometown of Tucson, and I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a crazy story.

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Speaker 2: But here's a little clip of the latest.

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Speaker 3: I think we received your message and we understand.

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Speaker 2: We beg you now to return our mother to us

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Speaker 2: so that.

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Speaker 1: We can celebrate with her. This is the only way

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Speaker 1: we will have peace.

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Speaker 4: This is very valuable to us, and.

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Speaker 2: We will pay all right.

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Speaker 1: That's a Savannah Guthrie and she's talking about her mom

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Speaker 1: who was kidnapped. And I met Tracy on social media

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Speaker 1: on Instagram, and she's a former CIA officer, FBI special

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Speaker 1: agent and I've been watching all her posts and they

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Speaker 1: are so interesting. Good morning, Tracy, you're on the air.

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Speaker 5: Good morning, Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Hey, is there anything new in this case that we

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Speaker 1: since you know it's seven p fifty two in the

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Speaker 1: morning here, is there anything new that we haven't got into.

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Speaker 5: Or that you think not that I know of, other

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Speaker 5: than obviously searching the septic tank behind Nancy guthrie To

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Speaker 5: home and then that search after the video is made

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Speaker 5: of Annie Guthrie's home. But as of today, there's nothing

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Speaker 5: new this morning.

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Speaker 4: When you listen to what she's saying. I'm trying to

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Speaker 4: get a sense of it. I know you can't speculate,

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Speaker 4: but tell me what you're hearing. When she says, to

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Speaker 4: celebrate our mom, we will pay, I'm wondering do they

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Speaker 4: think she's alive or are they sing we'll pay just

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Speaker 4: to get the body back or the resolution of whatever's

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Speaker 4: happening here.

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Speaker 5: I mean, obviously I can't speculate as to whether she's

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Speaker 5: alive or if she has passed, but I think that

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Speaker 5: they have clearly resolved their selves to resolving this right

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Speaker 5: that they will do anything to resolve it. So whether

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Speaker 5: it is getting their mom back alive, which is what

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Speaker 5: we all want for them, or whether it is getting

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Speaker 5: her body back so that they can, you know, respect

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Speaker 5: and love on that, I think either one is at play.

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Speaker 5: We don't know whether or not they have received proof

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Speaker 5: of life, and ultimately the decision to pay lies with

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Speaker 5: the family, not with the FBI.

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Speaker 1: When you see that last video, do you think in

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Speaker 1: your expertise that there was some hidden communication?

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Speaker 5: Yes, I mean I think that, first of all, Savannah

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Speaker 5: Guthrie is reading, you know from it looks like a

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Speaker 5: paper that's on the floor but in every video that

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Speaker 5: they have made, they have read with a paper. There's

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Speaker 5: no question in my mind that the FBI is helping them.

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Speaker 5: I guess craft these videos and carefully word them, and

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Speaker 5: I think they are wording them to address whatever is

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Speaker 5: being alluded to in these ransom notes. So using the

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Speaker 5: phrase this is valuable to us, right, That's not something

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Speaker 5: that a lot of people readily use in the course

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Speaker 5: of their conversation, you know, so that you know, we

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Speaker 5: can celebrate with her. I don't know that that's something

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Speaker 5: calmon that people use. I think it is all very

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Speaker 5: contrived by the FBI. That's that's what they do, and

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Speaker 5: that's not necessarily a bad thing.

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Speaker 4: It seems weird to me, like of it doesn't really

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Speaker 4: add up. In fact, I was hearing this morning that

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Speaker 4: kidnapping victims like zero point zero zero zero eight percent

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Speaker 4: of the time they're over eighty years old. So that

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Speaker 4: strikes me as odd that you don't normally kid people

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Speaker 4: for kidnap people for ransom. And then I feel like

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Speaker 4: the details of them, like searching the septic system doesn't

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Speaker 4: add up for me either. What could they be looking for?

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Speaker 5: Well, so can I adjust the second part? First, that's okay.

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Speaker 5: The second part, in my opinion, every inch of her home,

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Speaker 5: whether they had tips or not, should have been searched

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Speaker 5: immediately prior. So the fact that a subject tank, in

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Speaker 5: my opinion, is being searched five six days later is

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Speaker 5: not good. I believe all of that should have been

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Speaker 5: done regardless, because if you don't have the person back,

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Speaker 5: you need to operate under the auspices that a clue

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Speaker 5: could be at the home. And so I am confused

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Speaker 5: to why they went back so late to search that.

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Speaker 5: So I think that is sort of part of the

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Speaker 5: issue is that the scene was compromised early on right,

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Speaker 5: and the sheriff he states that he shouldn't have done that,

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Speaker 5: but I think some of those things definitely compromise the investigation.

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Speaker 2: You see, the sheriff was in the news because he

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Speaker 2: went to the U A basketball game.

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Speaker 5: I did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean what I feel like, not the best look,

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Speaker 2: not the best look. But also I mean he could

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Speaker 2: he could have. He's got to have some.

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Speaker 1: Free times, he's got people working on it. And plus

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Speaker 1: you their number one, you a So it's a great

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Speaker 1: was a great game.

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Speaker 4: Listen my husband, Oh hey, you didn't answer the first

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Speaker 4: part of My question was that it's it's unusual for

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Speaker 4: somebody of that age. I apologize that's okay.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it's very unusual. Typically when we see kidnappings, and

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Speaker 5: I hate to say this because it's it's awful, they

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Speaker 5: are to right or teens, and a lot of that

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Speaker 5: is it's familial right custody issues, those kinds of things.

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Speaker 5: Children running away. Typically elderly we do not see its.

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Speaker 5: Elderly do disappear. It is because of mental incapacitation, those

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Speaker 5: kinds of things. That's much more normal. I guess part

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Speaker 5: of the problem with elderly is it becomes a burden

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Speaker 5: almost to the kidnapper, right, keeping them alive, giving them medication,

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Speaker 5: those kinds of things. So that's another reason why it's

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Speaker 5: also quite rare.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I saw a headline, this says the FBI. What's

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Speaker 2: the headline exactly? Cow.

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Speaker 3: It was a former FBI top official that says he

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Speaker 3: doubts whether Nancy Guthrie's disappearance was actually a kidnapping. He

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Speaker 3: said he was really skeptical of it. It was a

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Speaker 3: former FBI Assistant director Chris Swecker, said.

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Speaker 5: That, yes, I am not someone who's going to make

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Speaker 5: speculations on that at all. I won't. I think it's

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Speaker 5: very unfair to the family to be doing something like that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense. So when you're you were with

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Speaker 2: the FBI for how long?

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Speaker 5: A couple of years and.

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Speaker 1: Then also the CIA. Yes, so do you have jackets

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Speaker 1: for both? Like on the back of the CIA and FBI.

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Speaker 5: So it's c I A. No, we don't wear jackets.

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Speaker 5: That's not how it works or typically undercover and that yes,

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Speaker 5: So that would be a huge problem where.

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Speaker 4: You're like, would I be in the CIA if I

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Speaker 4: was wearing a CIA?

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Speaker 5: Correct?

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Speaker 2: Were you undercover on any cases that we would know?

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Speaker 5: I was not undercover, but I worked the tie into

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Speaker 5: mat case, which was the very first economic fpionage case

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Speaker 5: ever tried here in the US.

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Speaker 1: Wow, well, your Instagram is I mean, the stuff you

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Speaker 1: post on there is incredible?

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Speaker 2: Can we give it out on the air? Do you

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Speaker 2: want to keep that.

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Speaker 5: Isn't it's the Unexpected Spy.

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Speaker 2: Unexpected Spies or Instagram? And you have a book too, Yes.

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Speaker 5: We will also called the Unexpected Spy. I forget about that's.

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Speaker 4: How often do your friends ask you to check out

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Speaker 4: dates before they go on them?

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Speaker 5: I don't know that I've ever received that before. Mostly

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Speaker 5: it would be about teachers, you know, our children's teachers, coaches,

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Speaker 5: those kinds of things.

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Speaker 2: Well, Tracy, thank you for jumping on here with us,

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Speaker 2: really really appreciate it.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much. There you go, the unexpected spy