1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: To night. Michael Brown joins me here, the former FEMA 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: director talk show host Michael Brown. Brownie, no, Brownie, You're 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: doing a heck of a job the Weekend with Michael 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Brown broadcasting Life from Denver, Colorado. You've reached the Weekend 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: with Michael Brown. Glad to have you with me. Appreciate 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: you joining the program. Text line is always open if 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: you want to send me a text message. That's the 8 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: easiest way to tell me what you agree with, disagree with, 9 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: Ask me anything, Tell me anything. That number on your 10 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: message app is three three one zero three three three 11 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: one zero three. Key word Mike or Michael, And then 12 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: do me a favor and go follow me on any 13 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: of the social media platforms x, Facebook, Instagram. They're all 14 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: at Michael D. Brown, at Michael D. Brown. Let's talk 15 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: about the Insurrection Act now. Trump has said that he 16 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: doesn't need it right now. He's been talking about and 17 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: threatening to invoke the Insurrection Act for the entire week, 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: and then sometime yesterday he said, well, I don't think 19 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: I really need it right now, but he very well 20 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: made because I don't think that the violence is going 21 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: to stop the Democrats. As I said early in the 22 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: last hour. They have the cabal more than willing to 23 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: carry the narrative and establish and reaffirm that narrative that 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: Ice is out of control, that Immigrations and Customs Enforcement 25 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: is doing things, that they're the ones creating the chaos. Well, 26 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure that's true. But I want you 27 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: to understand about the Insurrection Act and what it really 28 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: does and how it works. And I want to give 29 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: you a little qualifier. I know a little bit about 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: the Insurrection Act and the reason for that is during 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: Hurricane Katrina some almost twenty years ago, we started and 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: went through the Attorney General's Office, sat on Air Force 33 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: one Louis Armstrong Airport in New Orleans, ready to invoke 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: the Insurrection Act for a very specific reason. And the 35 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: reason was the New Orleans Police Department had completely disintegrated. 36 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: It was nowhere to be found. Officers had abandoned their 37 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 1: posts to go take care of their own families. They 38 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: were overrun with the widespread nature of the disaster. They 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: got no support or very little support. They didn't have 40 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: the logistics, they didn't have the communications, they didn't have 41 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: anything that they really needed to function as a law 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: enforcement unit. So we sat down with the governor on 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: Air Force one and the mayor and the President explained 44 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: to them why we were doing it. And I'd already 45 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: talked to then FBI Director. I already talked to him 46 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: about getting law enforcement reinforcements from the major cities. I 47 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: wanted law enforcement placements from large cities who were used 48 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: to dealing with urban crime, urban situations, you know, crowded spaces, 49 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: all of that, and so we'd already lined that up. 50 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: So I sat with the National Security Advisor in another 51 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: office on the Air Force one, had the Attorney General's 52 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: office on the phone, and we started to put together 53 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: all the necessary paperwork in order to invoke the Insurrection 54 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: Act and put US troops on the ground in New Orleans. 55 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: And the President was ready to do that, and he 56 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: explained that to then Governor Blanco, why we were doing it, 57 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: what we were going to do, what it would look like. 58 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: General Honorey was going to be in charge of those troops. 59 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah, We're gonna do it. And everything was explained, 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: and then President Bush, in my opinion, made one mistake, 61 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: and that was he gave god our Governor Blanco ask 62 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: what can I have you know? Twelve twenty four hours 63 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: to think about it, and he said yes. And I 64 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: think he did so because as a former governor himself, 65 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: he wanted to be respectful to the governor's position. But 66 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: that gave her time to come back and realize and 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: use that against us by claiming no, no, no, no. That 68 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: would look bad for me politically because you're not invoking 69 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: it in Mississippi. You're not invoking in Alabama, or in 70 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: Texas or in Florida. You're just doing it in Louisiana. 71 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: So she objected to it, and well, by that time 72 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: everything continued to get worse. We still had troops coming in, 73 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: National Guard troops. So it never got actually invoked. But 74 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: it is an old statue, but it has a modern purpose. 75 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: It's a legal bridge between two truths that sit uneasily together. 76 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: And one is something that I've reminded you of many 77 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: many times. We are, and I again every time I 78 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: say this, it's like, I don't want to sound like 79 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, but we are the United States of America. 80 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: The United States is a union of fIF the states 81 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: that have real sovereignty in matters of policing and public order. 82 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: That's the first truth. But the other truth is that 83 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: we are one nation that has one set of federal laws, 84 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: one constitution, one federal government charged with executing its laws 85 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: in all of those fifty states. Now, when those two 86 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: truths crash into each other, a republic needs a rule 87 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: for who's in charge. If you can't answer the question 88 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: who's in charge or under what conditions that person or 89 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: that entity is in charge, then you have a situation 90 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: where the Insurrection Act supplies the rule. It's very simple. 91 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: That's how simple it is. Yes, the states are sovereign, 92 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: the fifty states are we the people are the most sovereign, 93 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: and we organize ourselves by states. But the founder said 94 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: we need some overriding government that when necessary for national 95 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: issues like immigration, they are in charge. So when those 96 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: two sovereigns collide, what's the answer. And Congress and the 97 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: Constitution supplied that, and that was the Insurrection Act. So 98 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: a government that I mean, let's go back to the founders. 99 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: The founding fathers knew that there are times would have 100 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: to be trade offs. They knew at times there would 101 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: be a clash between the states and the federal government. 102 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: And a government at any level that can't enforce its 103 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: own laws will not stay a government for very long. 104 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: It will collapse. And when it collapses, that creates anarchy, 105 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: and that provides a breeding ground a petri dish for tyranny. 106 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: So a government that just casually deploys their own soldiers 107 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: against their citizens risks becoming something else. Historically, our first President, 108 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: George Washington, response to the Whiskey rebellion in seventeen ninety 109 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: four puts that trade off that I just described into practice. 110 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: The federal government acted, and it did so through legal channels, 111 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: and it did so in order to enforce a federal law. 112 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: It was not to punish. It was the preservation of 113 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 1: a basic fact about our political order, that our laws 114 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: will be executed even when a region or a state 115 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: decides it would rather not enforce those laws. And then 116 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: by eighteen oh seven, Thomas Jefferson faced problems that the 117 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: militia framework did not fully cover. The Republic confronted frontier instability, 118 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: cross border threats, and in particular ominous episode, the Berg Conspiracy, 119 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: that was a suspected plot that combined private armed ambition 120 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,119 Speaker 1: with the prospect of rebellion in the West. So Thomas 121 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: Jefferson concluded that the federal government might need to respond quickly, 122 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: and relying on only state militias is probably going to 123 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: be too slow to even or too dependent upon local will. 124 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: So Jefferson sought statutory authorization to use regular federal forces 125 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: within the States. Congress responded with the law that they 126 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: signed on March third, eighteen oh seven, an act that 127 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: authorized the employment of the land and naval the military 128 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: forces of the United States in cases of insurrections. Now, 129 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: some described the eighteen oh seven Act as a power ground. 130 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: I think actually it's better understood as a recognition of 131 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: something the Constitution already implies. A federal government that must 132 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: enforce federal law cannot be dependent, either structurally, logistically, or 133 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: otherwise on state cooperation. At the very moment that state 134 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: or local actors are the ones who are obstructing the 135 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: federal law. So the eighteen oh seven Act supplemented the 136 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: existing militia call up authority calling up the National Guard, 137 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: for example, by allowing a president to employ the army, 138 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: in the Navy, the military for the same purposes whenever 139 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: it was lawful to call out the militia. That act 140 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: did not create new crimes, It did not declare martial law. 141 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: It simply provided a tool, and it placed that tool 142 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: inside a legal framework. So what happened over the next 143 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: two centuries, I'll explain that next. Welcome back to the 144 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to have you with me. 145 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: Be sure and subscribe to our podcast on your podcast app, 146 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: search for the Situation with Michael Brown. And when you 147 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: find that, hit that subscribe button, leave a five star 148 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: review that helps us with the algorithm. And then now 149 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: automatically download the weekday program that I do plus the 150 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: weekend program, so you get all six days of Michael Brown. 151 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: Back to the Insurrection Act. By the way, text lines 152 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: open to a great text messages today. So the Act 153 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: was written by Congress in eighteen oh seven, and over 154 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: the next two centuries, the statute evolved in response to 155 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: crises that tested the boundaries of what can and cannot 156 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: the federal government do. The most significant expansion of the 157 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: Act came with the Civil War and Reconstruction in eighteen 158 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: sixty one, as the Civil re erupted as rebellion against 159 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: the United States erupted, Congress broadened the scope of the 160 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: law to allow the president to act not only to 161 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: suppress an insurrection, but to also enforce a faithful execution 162 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: of federal law when rebellion or unlawful obstruction made the ordinary, 163 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: in other words, the state local enforcement of law impractical. 164 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: That language survives today. You can find it in Title ten, 165 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: section two fifty one to two fifty five if you 166 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: want to go read it. During reconstruction in eighteen seventy one, 167 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: Congress expand the statute again. This time they wanted to 168 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: address violent conspiracies, particularly conspiracies that drived you and me 169 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: of our constitutional rights when states would not or could 170 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: not protect those rights. What caused that, well, that was 171 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: associated with the KKK and in particular the ku Klux 172 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: Klan Act, because it recognized that lawlessness can be both 173 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: private and political. It can be a mob or it 174 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: could be a regime of intimidation, and that intimidation can 175 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: force or substitute local coercion for federal rights. So then 176 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: a few years later they passed a similar act, the 177 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: Posse Comma Tatis Act of eighteen seventy eight. In that act, 178 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: the other part of what we had to do on 179 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: Air Force one during Katrina was two wait poss comatatis. 180 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: Because possi commatatis generally prohibits the use of the army 181 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: for domestic law enforcement. But but there's a crucial exception 182 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: where Congress has authorized it. So the Insurrection Act is 183 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: the basic authorization, not a loophole a structure. And then 184 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: Congress barred routine military policing precisely because Congress preserved the 185 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: Insurrection Act as an emergency statute to be used only 186 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: when civilian authority is not working or it's being obstructed 187 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: by an outside force like the KKK, or for that matter, 188 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: it's being instructed by an outside force like a governor 189 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: or a mayor who's refusing to help enforce federal law. 190 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: I think you ought to recall that Congress has actually 191 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: revisited this balance even in the modern era, because all 192 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: that story that I told you about Hurricane Katrina. Well, 193 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: Congress briefly expanded the Insurrection Act through a provision in 194 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: the Defense Authorization Act two years after Katrina, signed in 195 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: October of two thousand and six that would make it 196 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: easier to deploy troops without a governor's request under certain circumstances. Now, 197 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: every governor objected, and Congress repealed that expansion in two 198 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: thousand and eight. Now, I think that's revealing because it 199 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: shows that Americans remain really suspect, as they should be, 200 00:13:54,400 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: of turning a last resort authority into an everyday administrative convenience. Now, 201 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: we weren't using it as a convenience. We were using 202 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: it because we believed it was necessary. As I said, 203 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,359 Speaker 1: the New Orleans Police Department had completely evaporated, it had dissipated. 204 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: It no longer existed as an organized law enforcement authority. 205 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: Oh there was still you know, there were still the 206 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: chief chief compass was still around, but really didn't have 207 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: the units, didn't have the personnel, didn't have the equipment 208 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: to really do anything to enforce the local laws in 209 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: New Orleans or any of the parishes. So that's why 210 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: we were trying to use it then, and Congress saw 211 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: that we were trying to use it, but the governor objected, 212 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: and then we were left with, Okay, now we got 213 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: to turn to the National Guard. We got to do 214 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: all these other things. Meanwhile everything was delayed, which of 215 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: course affected me personally and affected the people in Louisiana individually. 216 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: And Congress reacted by, oh, let's allow them to override 217 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: a governor. But then the governors looked up and saw 218 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: what could have happened politically, because in Louisiana, Governor Blanco 219 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: would have been seen as weak, which is why she 220 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: objected in this whining. You know, Bush said, okay, well, 221 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: we'll give you time. That time costs me. It costs 222 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: me getting necessary goods and services and relief into the 223 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: Superdome because it was politics. But again Congress reacted and 224 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: then reacted again. Now, the way the statute is today 225 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: is by separating the pathways. First, the state's request. The 226 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: state can request and the president can use the militia 227 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: and the armed force US to suppress an insurrection in 228 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: that state. The state can actually your request. You know, hey, listen, 229 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: we need troops. The second thing it could happen the 230 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: president could act unilaterally when there is unlawful obstructions or 231 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: combinations or groups, or even a rebellion against a federal 232 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: authority or somehow they're making it impractical to enforce federal 233 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: law by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings. And there's 234 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: a third one. The president could act unilaterally to suppress 235 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: an insurrection or to suppress domestic violence, or an unlawful 236 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: combination of those two, or a conspiracy that would drive 237 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: the Senate that would deprive the citizens of that state 238 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: of their constitutional rights when the state authorities either cannot 239 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: or will not protect their own people, or when the 240 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: state authorities oppose or obstruct the execution of federal law 241 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: like immigration law, or they impede the course of justice 242 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: under those laws. In those unilateral pathways. The statute also 243 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: requires the President to issue a proclamation to disperse, which 244 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: is an old but sensible procedural steps. Hey, we're pretty serious. 245 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: Either stop doing this or I'm invoking the Act now. 246 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: That structure is not theoretical. Presidents have used it across 247 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: the nation's history, always in ways that illuminate both the 248 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: necessity and the risks. As I said, Jefferson used it 249 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: in eighteen oh eight to enforce the Embargo Act because 250 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: there's all this smuggling and resistance going on near Lake Champlain. 251 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson invoked it in eighteen thirty one in response 252 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: to Nat Turner slave rebellion. Lincoln used the statue outside 253 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: at the outside of the at the outside of the 254 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: Civil War to call forth the Militia against Secession US. 255 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: Grant used it repeatedly during Construction reconstruction to crush the KKK. 256 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 1: This is not new. I'll give you some more examples. 257 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: I gotta take a break. I'll give you some more 258 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: examples when we get back to night. Michael Brown joins 259 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: me here, the former FEMA director of talk show host 260 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: Michael Brown. Brownie, no, Brownie, You're doing a heck of 261 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: a job. The weekend with Michael Brown. Welcome back. We'll 262 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: begin with Michael Brown. Glad to have you with me. 263 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: Appreciate you tuning in, is reading through the text line 264 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: some of you, some of your texts are going to 265 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: get answered in this segment. So pay attention three three 266 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: one zero three three three one zero three keyword, Michael, Michael. So, 267 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: as I said at the end of that last segment, 268 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you some more current examples. And 269 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: the reason for that is very simple. I think most 270 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: of the country you're accepted is historically ignorant. We hear 271 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: the Insurrection Act and that Trump may invoke it, and 272 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: we think, oh my gosh, he's being a dictator. It's tyrannical, 273 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: it's horrible. I can't believe he's going to do this. Well, 274 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: what if I told you that it's been used a 275 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: lot in what I would consider to be modern history. 276 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: Let's go back. Let me just give you some examples. Now, 277 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: some of these may make you uncomfortable because it involves 278 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: labor disputes. Brutherford Hayes, President Hayes eighteen seventy seven invoted 279 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: during the Great Railroad Strike. Now, why would you do that? 280 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: Because you were impeding commerce. And by impeding commerce and 281 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: not getting you know, goods, services or even people from 282 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: point A to point B, you're violating the commerce clause, 283 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: and you're depriving people of their rights, a right to 284 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: you know, a free market, the free exchange of goods 285 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: and services. So during the Great Railroad Strike, he saw 286 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: that that was going to not only harm the economy, 287 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: but it was depriving people their rights and their privileges. 288 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: So President Hayes invoted during that strike in eighteen seventy seven. 289 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: Same thing, Grover Cleveland. They ask Grover Cleveland in eighteen 290 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: ninety four during the Pullman strike, why because then mail 291 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: delivery and interstate commerce was being obstructed. Woodrow Wilson used 292 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen during the Colorado Cofield War, strikers were 293 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: just killing everybody. Plus we were losing all the source 294 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: of coal. Warren Harding did in nineteen twenty one during 295 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: the Battle of Blair Mountain. FDR did in nineteen forty 296 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: three to quell the Detroit race riots, you know, and 297 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: actually the race right, the race rights and civil rights 298 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: is probably the most morally clarifying examples of federal's supremacy 299 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: in action. President Eisenhower. Heisenhower did in nineteen fifty seven 300 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: to enforce the desegregation laws in Little Rock. He federalized 301 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: the Arkansas National Guard and deployed the hundred and Force 302 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: I can't talk to the one hundred and first Airborne 303 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: in order to ensure the enforcement of federal court orders. 304 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: John F. Kennedy did the same thing in nineteen sixty 305 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: two at the University of Mississippi. There was violent resistance 306 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: to James Mayor of this enrollment at the University of Mississippi, 307 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: and then kfk did it again in nineteen sixty three 308 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: in Alabama, then Governor George Wallace was trying to block integration. 309 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: Linda Johnson did it in nineteen sixty five to protect 310 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,479 Speaker 1: the Salm of the Montgomery Marchers, and then LBJ did 311 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: it again in nineteen sixty seven. In nineteen sixty eight 312 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: to respond to the riots going on about the Vietnam War. 313 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan invoked it in nineteen eighty seven to stop 314 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: a prison ride in Atlanta, Georgia. George H. W. Bush 315 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: Bush forty one did it in nineteen eighty nine in 316 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: the US Virgin Islands after Hurricane Hugo, because it was 317 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: just the USVI was just devastated. No law enforcement anywhere 318 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: invoked the Instruction Act, and he did it also in 319 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two. Rodney keen, can't we all just get along? 320 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: The LA riots? The last time it's been used to 321 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: deploy federal troops on US soil. The history that I 322 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: just described ought to be pretty sobering. The Insurrection Act 323 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: is neither tyrannical nor necessarily noble. It's just a tool. 324 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: The morality of using that tool depends on the facts, 325 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: on the purpose, and on the use of or the 326 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: discipline that is used when you invoke it. Take Eisenhower. 327 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: When Eisenhower enforced federal desegregation orders against the states obstructing it, 328 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: the statute served constitutional equality, and it involved one hundred 329 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: and first Airborne when federal forces crushed those violent riots 330 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: that the local authorities could not control. That ensured public safety. Now, 331 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: when the statute was used in those labor disputes, the 332 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: critics argued that it served private power and suppressed the workers. 333 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: But when General Douglas MacArthur exceeded orders in nineteen thirty 334 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: two against the Bonus Army, public outrays reflected the danger 335 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: of confusing protest with rebellion. So, if the insurrection that 336 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: is to be justified and used in any given case, 337 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: that justification is very fact sensitive, goal specific, and is 338 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: always limited by the constitution, which brings us to Minnesota. 339 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: And here's where I think people can honestly disagree. I 340 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: was asked on the text line, let me get to 341 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: the very specific question you birth seventy five ninety two rights, 342 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: and I do know that this person is a retired 343 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: law enforcement officer, even current events, when and where would 344 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 1: you invoke the insurrection at? And my response is pretty simple. 345 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: While I think it is justified, I personally would not 346 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: invoke it in Minnesota yet. And the reason is simply this, 347 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: we're actually enforcing federal law. Now. It's ugly, and it's 348 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: ugly because people are violating state and local law and 349 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: they're also violating federal law. And you have a governor 350 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: and a mayor over here who are pretty close to 351 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: inciting this violence. In fact, there are days, and I 352 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: flip flopped back on this, there are days when I 353 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: think they actually have incited some of the violence with 354 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: some of their language about you know, you've got to 355 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: continue your resistance. Well, when you tell people to continue 356 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: your resistance, and you know they're doing that by physically 357 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: attacking either law enforce I'm talking specifically about ICE. You're 358 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: either attacking them personally as individuals, or you're attacking federal 359 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: property or vandalizing federal property, or you're breaking into cars, 360 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: or you're obstructing the movement of these law enforcement officers. Yes, 361 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: I think that is inciting the violence. But so far 362 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: ICE is just responding as you would expect anybody to do. 363 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: Let's take it out of Minnesota for a moment. Let's 364 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: just say that they're and I'll use Colorado as an example, 365 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: but it could be anywhere. Maybe, Actually, let me use 366 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: California as an example. And I forget whether it was 367 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: I forget whether it was the I five or where, 368 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: but you had people and it was I think it 369 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: was down near lax somewhere, and I forget again, whether 370 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: it was northbound or south man, but you had protesters 371 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: who were blocking the freeway. That is against state law. Now, 372 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: the California Highway Patrol and Gavin Newsom and for that 373 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: matter of law, set the LAPD needed to move in, 374 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: and I would have moved them in quicker because I 375 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: think that when you have that mate, and let's just 376 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: assume from moments I FI, when you have that huge 377 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: of an interstate block, you're putting people's lives in danger 378 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: because ambulances, fire trucks, police vehicles, emergency vehicles are stuck 379 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: because once that backup begins to grow and grow and 380 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: grow and grow, it becomes more difficult to find an 381 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: escape route off an exit ramp and go around it. 382 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: And now you're on the surface streets trying to go 383 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: through all of that. You just increase the danger of 384 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: those emergency vehicles. So an ambulance trying to get someone 385 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: to an hospital, you've made it even more difficult and 386 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: more dangerous as they have to go through more and 387 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: more traffic lights as opposed to staying on the interstate 388 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: which you don't have traffic lights and so get to 389 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: your appropriate exit. If that had continued and Newsom or 390 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 1: the mayor had refused to deploy the California High Patrol 391 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: or the LAPD to remove those people and get that 392 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: traffic moving again. That might have been a place, although 393 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: it's a tiny, little example, but if they'd grown and grown, yeah, 394 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: that might have been a place to use the Insurrection Act. 395 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: But you didn't need to. And I think it would 396 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: have been over the top of a response to invoke 397 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,360 Speaker 1: the Insurrection Act because that's a given time, a place 398 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: where just give them time. And I think they acted 399 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: too slowly, but that's my personal preference. I don't think 400 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: that you ought to block interstate highways. You put people 401 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: in danger. But if that grew and it started growing 402 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: to all the other surrounding, you know, interstate highways, and 403 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: Newsom and the mayor didn't do anything, now you're going 404 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,479 Speaker 1: to create total chaos, like in New Orleans. Go back 405 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: to New Orleans. The reason I thought it was proper 406 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: in New Orleans was because there was no police department 407 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: to respond, and the Louisiana State Patrol was busy doing 408 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: things elsewhere. They didn't have the manpower, so we were 409 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: without law enforcement. And you can't have one of the 410 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: nation's largest cities without law enforcement, and I think that 411 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: would have been and was an absolute proper place to 412 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: use it, As did the people that we informed in Congress, 413 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: as did the US Attorney General at the time. All 414 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: agreed and we started doing the paperwork. I think that 415 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: would have been appropriate. But let's go back to Minnesota 416 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: for a moment, because the question, I think is not 417 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: whether the insurrection that can be abused, because they can 418 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: be abused. The question is really whether the current conditions 419 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: in Minnesota, as described by federal officials and as evidenced 420 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: by the sustained violence and all the obstruction, fit within 421 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: the statute's predicates and within the broader constitutional duty of 422 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: the president to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. 423 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: So if I think that it meets all of the 424 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: requirements and that the president would have the authority to 425 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: invoke it in Minnesota today, then why am I reticent 426 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: or hesitating to do it? Right now? I'll explain that next. 427 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: Don't go away. Welcome back to the weekend with Michael Brown. 428 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: Glad to have you with me. So everything I've outlined 429 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: here's kind of what matters. Federal immigration authorities are conducting 430 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: all this sustained enforcement, and it does get ugly. But 431 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: law enforcement, I think any cop would tell you longforcem 432 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: sometimes is pretty ugly. You get people that are just stupid, 433 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: maybe they're drunk, maybe they're high, maybe they're just you know, 434 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: they just don't like being told what to do, or 435 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: you get the Karens of the world that you know. 436 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: I watched one the other day was a she was 437 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: in uniform, in uniform, she's a military physician. She gets 438 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: stopped because they have a reasonable suspicion that she's driving drunk, 439 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: and she refuses to give driver's license, won't roll down 440 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: her window. Of course, she knows she's in trouble. So 441 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: she's already acting like a like a jerk, and she 442 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: demands a supervisor. You know. So everything's just beginning to escalate, 443 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: and the cop that stopped her is trying to de 444 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: escalate everything. Man, if you don't do what I'm going 445 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: if you don't do what I'm asking you to do, 446 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: all I'm asking for is your driver's license and your registration. 447 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: You know, Well I want a supervisor. Well, you know, 448 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: it's gonna take a while, and we're gonna sit here 449 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: and he's gonna tell you the same thing and blah 450 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: blah blah, and she just keeps escalator and escalating, and 451 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: pretty soon, you know, the sergeant shows up or the supervisor, 452 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: and what do they do, same thing. Man, we need 453 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: your driver's license and your registration. What am I being 454 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: stopped for? Well, you know, give us your driver's license 455 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: registration so we know who we're talking to, and we'll 456 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: tell you what we stopped you for. And of course 457 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure she doesn't want to roll down her window 458 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: because they will at that point smell alcohol and you know, 459 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: make there that now they got probable cause. Well, she 460 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: just keeps refusing and refusing, and finally they have to 461 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: reach in and you know, yank her out, and the 462 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: body cams capturing all of it. And I'm thinking, you know, 463 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: what an idiot, what an absolute idiot. She's the proximate 464 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: cause of the escalation, not the cops. These cops were 465 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: doing everything by the book. And this is why I'm 466 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: not a cop, because I don't have that kind of patience. 467 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: I would be like, Bam, I'm gonna break your window 468 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: right now and player by out of the car. I 469 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: don't have time for this. That's why that's why I'm 470 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: not a cop. So enforcement is ugly, and when we 471 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: see it, we always see it in snippets. We don't see, 472 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: you know, we don't necessarily see the body cam or 473 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: we don't see the cam recording that sees what the 474 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: officer sees when she crosses the middle line, or she's weaving, 475 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: or she's stopping way too early or you know, inconsistent speed, 476 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: whatever gives him reasonable suspicion. We don't see that. We 477 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: just see the encounter and then we think, oh, this 478 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: guy's being a jerk. You know, No, he wasn't being 479 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: a jerk at all. She was being a jerk, and 480 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure her commanders are going to see that too, 481 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: and she's going to be in trouble with the military. 482 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: So when I see this ugliness, my initial reaction is, yeah, 483 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: you know what, screw it, let's invoke the insurrection. At Politically, 484 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: I don't want it done. And you know why, really simple, 485 00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: because that's what they want. They want the tarry on 486 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: the streets of Minneapolis so that they can run to 487 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: their narrators in the cabal and talk about how Trump's 488 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: a dictator, Trump's out of control, this is tyranny. I 489 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: just don't want to give him I don't want to 490 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: give him that. The Deputy Attorney General went to Minneapolis, 491 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: gave him, gave him a pep talk, told them, you know, 492 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: we've got your back now, we're we're going to continue 493 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: to support you, keep doing what you're doing. And they 494 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: they did need to hear that. But I don't want 495 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: the troops there yet. I don't want the troops there 496 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: yet because I see you around the corner and I 497 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: know that what will happen is we're going to get blamed. 498 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: Oh you know what, Trump, You'll Trump devote the Introduction Act, 499 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: and because most Americans are historically ignorant, they won't understand 500 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: that legally, he's probably in his rights to do so 501 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: right now, and the narrative will become Trump has ordered 502 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: troops on the ground, and then you'll hear everything about 503 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: a dictatorship. You'll hear everything about his tyrant. He'll hear 504 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: everything about that. And I just think, you know, you 505 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: guys signed up to be ice agents. You're doing your job, 506 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: and I know it's pretty bad right now, but that's 507 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 1: what you get paid for. That's you know, being a cop, 508 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: being a law enforcement officer, that's what comes with the 509 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: territory people are gonna spin on you, people are gonna 510 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: push you, people are gonna resist you. They're gonna do it, 511 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: and you have to bite your tongue because you have 512 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: to follow the constitution, you have to follow the law. 513 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: And so I know it's a tough job, and I 514 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: know they're in a tough situation. But again, that's what 515 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: you signed up for. And you know that most Americans 516 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: support you, and if you don't know that, then you 517 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: should know that we support you. There may come a 518 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: time where Mayor Frey and Governor Waltz I think they've 519 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: crossed the line, but I mean they will be so 520 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: far over the line that I think even the people 521 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: that are feeding this may start to say, oh, back up, 522 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: we've got a little too far stumbling to let it 523 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: play out a while. I just I recognize the politics 524 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: of it, and the politics invoking the Insurrection Act today 525 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: would fall into precisely what they want, because if we 526 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: had a if we had real journalists who would report 527 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: objectively about what was going on, I might feel a 528 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: little different. But they are a factor that you have 529 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: to take into consideration. And it's sad that we have 530 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: to do that. But the Minnesota scenario fits the statue perfectly. 531 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: It plausitively fits the enforcement of federal authority in that provision, 532 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 1: and when the mob targets federal officers to prevent lawful 533 00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: enforcement of federal immigration laws, and when local officials refuse cooperation, Yes, 534 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: it fits everything I'm acting and thinking, I think like 535 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: what Trump is acting. Yeah, I'm not going to do 536 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: it right now, because that's what you want. And I'm 537 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: going to send my Deputy Attorney General out and give 538 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: the pep talk, remind them they're doing good work and 539 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: we support them. And at some point, which is sad 540 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: to say, someone's going to cross the line, So someone 541 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: will cross the line and may actually physically injure an 542 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: ice agent. I don't want them to die. I don't 543 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: want them to be, you know, seriously injured. But then, yes, yes, 544 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: that will be the so called rubicon. Sad to say, 545 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: but that's how I would deal with it. So we 546 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: came with Michael Brown. Don't forget text lines always open. 547 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: It'd be curious whether you agree with my assessment or not. 548 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: Three three one zero three keyword Mike or Michael. I'll 549 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: be right back