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Speaker 1: Yeah, Jules is here on this Martin Luther King Day.

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Speaker 1: And if you hear this happen before, So your adult child,

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Speaker 1: you're adult child now tells you things about their childhood

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Speaker 1: or maybe things that happened that you may have forgotten

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Speaker 1: about don't match what liney and your memories don't line

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Speaker 1: up obviously, and maybe they're describing, you know, problems, hurt, loneliness,

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Speaker 1: fear from moments that you probably have forgotten about or

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Speaker 1: barely remember, or maybe you remember things completely differently because

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Speaker 1: you're coming at it from a different perspective, and so

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Speaker 1: you want to correct them, and that would be the

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Speaker 1: bad move. It's validation versus agreement. And Julie is here

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Speaker 1: to talk about that this morning on Mental Health Money. Julie,

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Speaker 1: good morning, how are you.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm good. How are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing fine. This probably happens a lot.

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Speaker 2: It happens a lot, sometimes in really big ways and

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Speaker 2: sometimes just in little ways, like you know, your kid

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Speaker 2: will say, hey, do you remember when this thing happened?

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Speaker 2: And you're like, yeah, that's not how I remember it

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Speaker 2: at all. And sometimes it can be a much bigger conversation.

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Speaker 2: If your adult child has some significant problems or challenges

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Speaker 2: with how they were raised. So it can happen in

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Speaker 2: ways big and small. But as parents, it can really

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Speaker 2: be hard for us to hear that we did anything

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Speaker 2: wrong or that anything we did had a negative impact

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Speaker 2: on our kids, because all we want is what's best

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Speaker 2: for our children, right, and so that can be a

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Speaker 2: hard thing to hear.

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Speaker 1: Of course, And of course a younger version of yourself

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Speaker 1: knows a lot less in the current version, and you're

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Speaker 1: also a lot more calm, especially from a guy's perspective,

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Speaker 1: And there are things that you probably remember and cringe

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Speaker 1: at that they have forgotten, but other things that may

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Speaker 1: have happened you thought it was pretty good, and it

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Speaker 1: turns out it was traumatic for them. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you're right in there wrong or vice versa correct.

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Speaker 2: It just means that you know, keeping in mind, you

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Speaker 2: were the adult at the time and they were the child,

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Speaker 2: so they obviously have a very different perspective of the

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Speaker 2: same situation than you do. But also it's easy to

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Speaker 2: wonder how they got to where they are and to

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Speaker 2: want to be curious about that and to ask questions

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Speaker 2: about how they ended up getting that perspective or that

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Speaker 2: thinking or that feeling from that situation that felt very

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Speaker 2: different to you.

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Speaker 1: All right, So if you're a parent, let's start with us.

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Speaker 1: How can you distinguish between validating their emotional experience what

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Speaker 1: they see and accepting responsibility for harm that they don't

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Speaker 1: believe they cause.

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Speaker 2: Well, so validating and accepting responsibility are not anywhere near

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Speaker 2: the same thing. So validating is saying, yeah, if it

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Speaker 2: went down the way you say it did, I can

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Speaker 2: see why that was hard for you. Or I'm really

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Speaker 2: sorry that that experience that I saw very differently was

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Speaker 2: so difficult for you. A really great example is a

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Speaker 2: vacation that parents think is terrific and kids feel they'd

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Speaker 2: rather be home with their friends. They feel like their

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Speaker 2: schedule was disrupted, They've got anxiety about what's coming next.

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Speaker 2: They're processing a lot of novelty in their little brains.

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Speaker 2: Parents think it's fabulous, they know what's going on. The

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Speaker 2: kids are kind of along for the ride, and so

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Speaker 2: the parents may think it was a wonderful trip and

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Speaker 2: the kids may feel it was very destabilizing. That doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean it was a bad trip. That just means that

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Speaker 2: they were different people at different life stages and had

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Speaker 2: different experiences of it. So to be able to say,

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that what we thought was going to

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Speaker 2: be a really great thing for you turned out not

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Speaker 2: to be a really great thing for you. It's not

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Speaker 2: saying you were wrong as a parent, it's just recognizing

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Speaker 2: that your best intentions fell short for that child at

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Speaker 2: that moment in time.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that why Christmas Vacation still hits? Because that's ultimately

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Speaker 1: what that movie is, right, Chevy Chase wants to have

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Speaker 1: everything perfect for the hell for their kids are these

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Speaker 1: great experiences and it always is a complete nightmare. That's

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Speaker 1: every parent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it really can be. I had a client call

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Speaker 2: me from Disney World. This was years and years ago.

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Speaker 2: He was there with his wife and his children, and

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Speaker 2: he said, okay, Julie, Disney is not the happiest place

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Speaker 2: on earth. She said, the kids are miserable. He said,

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Speaker 2: the kids are miserable. They don't want to be here.

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Speaker 2: It's too loud, it's too hot, to crowded. We're coming home.

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Speaker 2: Disney is not the happiest place on earth. So they

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Speaker 2: planned this wonderful trip for their children, and the kids

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Speaker 2: were just not happy, and they came home early. That's

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Speaker 2: an indication of a parent understanding a kid's experience in

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Speaker 2: real time. But I could easily see later on those

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Speaker 2: kids coming back and saying, you know that trip to

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Speaker 2: Disney that she took us on, Man, that was a nightmare.

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Speaker 2: That was really hard for me, and the parent being

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Speaker 2: really ascended by that or hurt by that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you spent all it's the time effort of money,

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Speaker 1: because you have this great family vacation in mind, or

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Speaker 1: whatever it is the event. It could be the holidays,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned to that, and it never lives up

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Speaker 1: to you, so you're upset and mad about it from

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Speaker 1: a different reason.

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Speaker 2: They are exactly exactly. And so it's important as a parent,

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Speaker 2: if your child is coming to you with this kind

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Speaker 2: of conversation, to try really hard not to be defensive,

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Speaker 2: to try really hard not to explain your perspective or

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Speaker 2: to explain the situation or to justify your choices, but

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Speaker 2: just to listen to what they're telling you and get

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Speaker 2: really curious about it and say, tell me more, I

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Speaker 2: want to understand what that was like for you, And

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Speaker 2: try to be as non defensive as possible, and stop

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Speaker 2: if you find yourself getting really worked up and wanting

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Speaker 2: to argue back with them, because then you're in an

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Speaker 2: argument versus understanding conversation. And that's really what we want

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Speaker 2: as parents, is to be able to understand where our

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Speaker 2: kids are and at some point offer them our perspective. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I hear you. Now. I want you to understand what

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Speaker 2: it was like for me. Are you open to hearing

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Speaker 2: that and offer them that perspective at some point, but

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Speaker 2: not right away, not while they're talking.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Julie hantersh you here a licensed mental health therapist

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Speaker 1: in Cincinnati. That's mental health Monday in the Scott Sloan

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Speaker 1: Show on seven hundred WLW. We're talking about adult children

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Speaker 1: when you get to this point, because everything you do

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Speaker 1: as a young parent, you think, Okay, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: do the best I can, and I think kids know that.

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Speaker 1: But when your adult child spits back to you, things

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Speaker 1: about their childhood and their version of events are different

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Speaker 1: than yours, and things that you thought were inocuous seem

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Speaker 1: to be harmful to them, and vice versa. You can

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Speaker 1: have that conversation. If I really want to screw that

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Speaker 1: conversation up with my adult kids, what would I do?

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Speaker 2: You'd get really defensive, You'd argue back and you would

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Speaker 2: compare their experience to their siblings experience, or your brother

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Speaker 2: and your sister thought it was great, so what's wrong

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Speaker 2: with you? You would invalidate what they're saying. If you

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Speaker 2: really want to screw it up, you would invalidate what

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Speaker 2: they're saying, and you would make them out to be

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Speaker 2: the villain or the scapegoat, that they were the problem,

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Speaker 2: that they caused all the difficulty, that it was because

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Speaker 2: of them that it went that way, and everybody else

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Speaker 2: was faultless and blameless. So if you really wanted to

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Speaker 2: screw it up, that's what you'd.

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Speaker 1: Do, gotcha? Yeah? Right, It's like, no, what I feel matters,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to in I was like, wow, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting you would say that because I didn't see that

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Speaker 1: from my perspective, but I hear what you're saying exactly.

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Speaker 2: And it's also important to really take a moment to

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Speaker 2: reflect on you're looking at this from a distance as

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Speaker 2: they are. You are now in the present and you're

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Speaker 2: looking back. But if you can put yourself back in

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Speaker 2: that place, were you really as focused and present and

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Speaker 2: mindful and careful and thoughtful as you think you were? Like,

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Speaker 2: So an example right out of grad school, I worked

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Speaker 2: with cancer patients and their families, and I had young

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Speaker 2: kids at home, and I was working with life threatening

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Speaker 2: illness and death at work, and I was really struggling to, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, leave work and come home and be a

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Speaker 2: fully present, engaged, happy, bubbly, fun mom. And so when

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Speaker 2: one of my boys later in life said, you know,

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Speaker 2: that was a really tough time for me because you

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Speaker 2: weren't around, and you weren't like you were there, but

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Speaker 2: you weren't there, I had to reflect and say, honestly,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're right, I probably wasn't. I was brand

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Speaker 2: new doing this kind of work. I was working with

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Speaker 2: really hard stuff, and when I came home, I probably

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Speaker 2: wasn't there to the degree that I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: or thought I was. I can totally see that. That

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Speaker 2: took some reflection on my part to realize that how.

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Speaker 1: Much of this is kicking yourself as a parent, Julian,

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Speaker 1: and that it's like, wow, you think of the times

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Speaker 1: you could have done more, been there, or done things,

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Speaker 1: and you think, hey, there's a reason why my kids.

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Speaker 1: And it could be social, it could be relationship, it

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Speaker 1: could be job, could be substance. If you could be

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Speaker 1: all these things, we tend to blame ourselves. It's like, man,

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Speaker 1: I was terrible as a parent because my kid isn't

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Speaker 1: successful at this, this or this.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think that sometimes we parents take too much

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Speaker 2: of the blame and not enough of the credit for

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Speaker 2: how our kids turn out. That's not true for everybody.

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Speaker 2: I know parents who take all the credit for how

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Speaker 2: their kids turned out. But I think so many of

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Speaker 2: us say our kids' successes are theirs and their failures

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Speaker 2: are shortcomings or challenges are hours. And I think they're

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Speaker 2: partly ours, and they're partly theirs. And I think their

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Speaker 2: successes are partly ours and partly theirs. And I think

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Speaker 2: it's important to realize that that's true for our parents

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Speaker 2: as well. Like we are who we are because of

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Speaker 2: how we were raised, positively and negative our kids are

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Speaker 2: who they are because of how they were raised. And

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Speaker 2: your best intentions as a parent can still be the

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Speaker 2: wrong thing for one or more of your children. You

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Speaker 2: can't foresee every possible follow on consequence of any decision

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Speaker 2: you make. That's not to let you off the hook

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Speaker 2: for making bad decisions. That's just to say, no matter

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Speaker 2: how well you think you've figured it all, out and

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Speaker 2: thought it all through. Things can happen that you didn't

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Speaker 2: plan on that turn out to be not as good

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Speaker 2: as you'd hoped. So it's about taking the right amount

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Speaker 2: of responsibility for how your children turn out positively or negatively,

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Speaker 2: and giving them responsibility for how they turn out as well.

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Speaker 1: And part of this is you taking kind of them

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Speaker 1: taking come out of those ol So if you're an

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Speaker 1: adult child and you're having this conversation or why to

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Speaker 1: have this conversation, I guess the question would be is

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Speaker 1: it too late? I mean, if you know your parents

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Speaker 1: are in their nineties and you're in your sixties, it

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Speaker 1: said too late to talk about this kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: or you probably won't, I'm guessing because the long or

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Speaker 1: it goes more uncomfortable, it's not only going to feel

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Speaker 1: but nobody's going to remember anything.

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Speaker 2: Well. That may be true, and is it necessary or

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Speaker 2: is it useful? That depends. So if what you're talking

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Speaker 2: about is something that has impacted who you are now

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Speaker 2: and you'd like your parent to understand you better like

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Speaker 2: I am this way in part because of these things

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Speaker 2: that happened in my childhood when you were bringing me up,

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Speaker 2: and you'd like them to understand you better. That's a

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Speaker 2: valid reason if you feel like you just need to

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Speaker 2: say these things. Whether your parent remembers or believes it

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Speaker 2: or understands it, or whether they're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to make any changes going forward or not, it's important

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Speaker 2: just for you to say it to them. Hey, I

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Speaker 2: am this way because of these positive things, but these

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Speaker 2: challenges I have, I think they're because of this. If

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Speaker 2: that's something that you need to do for yourself, that

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Speaker 2: makes sense if you find that what happened is getting

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Speaker 2: in the way of your relationship with them, and you'd

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Speaker 2: like to have a better relationship. Clearing the air, getting

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Speaker 2: some understanding, helping them know you better, and understanding maybe

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Speaker 2: more about how they saw things at that period of

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Speaker 2: time can really improve your relationship with at any age,

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Speaker 2: whether it's ninety or whether it's sixty five. It can

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Speaker 2: really help improve the relationship with your parents at any age.

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Speaker 2: One of my boys and I had just such a

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Speaker 2: conversation a few years ago, and things have been much

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Speaker 2: better between us since.

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Speaker 1: Do you say, hey, got to do some homework and

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Speaker 1: think of the ways I've screwed you up, or you

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Speaker 1: just have like an organic conversation make a list, but

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Speaker 1: on not more than three.

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Speaker 2: No more than three, of all the ways I screwed you. Yeah, right, Well,

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Speaker 2: I think if we parents are honest, we can look

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Speaker 2: back and see things that we wish we'd done differently,

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Speaker 2: wish we had done that we didn't, or wish we

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Speaker 2: hadn't done that we did. And I think that if

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Speaker 2: we can take our own inventory of how we succeeded

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Speaker 2: in where we sell short as a parent, than when

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Speaker 2: our kid and for many of us, this will happen

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Speaker 2: when our adult kid comes to us and says, hey,

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Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about something, and I'll

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Speaker 2: tell you often it happens when they themselves have children

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Speaker 2: and become parents. Then we've already done sort of an

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Speaker 2: inventory of that, and we have some sense of our

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Speaker 2: own of where we feel we exceeded expectations and where

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Speaker 2: we feel we fell short. So it shouldn't be a

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Speaker 2: huge shock to the system.

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Speaker 1: What else am I missing about this generational conversation?

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Speaker 2: Really well, I think that the important things to remember

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Speaker 2: are that children do this most of the time because

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Speaker 2: they want the relationship to be better, and they feel

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Speaker 2: misunderstood or not known by their parent, or they feel

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Speaker 2: like they don't understand why mom or dad showed up

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Speaker 2: the way they did at that point in time, and

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Speaker 2: they want the relationship to be better. And I think

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Speaker 2: when as parents people come to us, our kids come

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Speaker 2: to us and seemingly criticize our parenting, we feel like

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Speaker 2: it's because they want they don't want things to be better.

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Speaker 2: We feel it's negative, when in fact it's trying usually

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Speaker 2: trying to reach a level of understanding to improve the relationship,

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Speaker 2: to clear the air, to declutter things, and to get

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Speaker 2: some understanding between parent and child about what happened. And

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Speaker 2: so if we go into it with that mindset of

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Speaker 2: openness and curiosity and lack of judgment, I think that

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Speaker 2: can be really helpful.

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Speaker 1: Is it almost all the cases unless there's some major

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Speaker 1: event or major trauma when the parents dies or something

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Speaker 1: massive happens. In most cases, is it more like things

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Speaker 1: that you have forgotten about? Are they forgotten about or

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Speaker 1: they had a different prayer it was bigger for them

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Speaker 1: than wes U and vice versa.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's often bigger for them than it

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Speaker 2: is for us because they're children, and everything is bigger

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Speaker 2: for children than it is for adults, right, because they

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Speaker 2: don't have the experience or their perspective or the level

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Speaker 2: of un understanding of the world. Their world is what

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Speaker 2: we created it to be as parents when they're very young,

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Speaker 2: and so small things seemingly small things to us can

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Speaker 2: be really big to them. But also the same thing

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Speaker 2: can read differently to different children. So one of my sons,

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Speaker 2: if I would say to him, I'm really disappointed in

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Speaker 2: that choice you made, it would devastate him. The other

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Speaker 2: one would be like, thank you for offering your opinion, Julie,

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Speaker 2: I appreciate, and it wouldn't matter to him at all, right, right,

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Speaker 2: But for the one, it would devastate. If I said

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Speaker 2: I'm really disappointed, that was like a knife to the heart.

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Speaker 2: So different kids in the same situation can have different

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Speaker 2: reactions and perspectives to things. Also just depending on the

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Speaker 2: kind of person that they are and that they are becoming.

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Speaker 2: So yes, it's that their kids and worthy adults, but

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Speaker 2: also they're their own people. They're becoming their own people,

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Speaker 2: and so things are going to hit them differently.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that makes total sense. Should you prepare for

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Speaker 1: them conversation ahead of time and say, hey, we're going

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Speaker 1: to sit down and talk about all these there you

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Speaker 1: just simply say, hey, you know what, how do you

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Speaker 1: how do you even open the subject?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, uh.

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Speaker 1: The subject mom and dad or are kids?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it could go either way. So I

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Speaker 2: think if you know, as a parent that there's some

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Speaker 2: distance or disconnect between you and your adult child, you

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Speaker 2: can say something like, I would really like to understand

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Speaker 2: why we feel so disconnected. I'd really like to understand

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Speaker 2: from your perspective, why there's so much distance here, because

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's coming from me. Maybe it is,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think so, So I'd really like to

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Speaker 2: understand that. But as if you're the kid, you can say, hey, listen,

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Speaker 2: there are a few things about my childhood that I'm

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Speaker 2: coming to understand differently or realizing or getting a different

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Speaker 2: perspective on, and i'd really like to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about them. Can we sit down and do that. It

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Speaker 2: is best not to just blindside people and hijack them

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Speaker 2: and start lobbing things at them when they're not expecting it,

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Speaker 2: but setting up a time to sit down and talk,

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Speaker 2: and then taking some time, if you're the one being

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Speaker 2: invited to the conversation, to really reflect on what my

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Speaker 2: role was, what may be coming up and how much

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Speaker 2: responsibility does it make sense for me to take?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how. And as a parent too,

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Speaker 1: so we always try to do it's best for our kids.

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Speaker 1: It's hard not to internalize this and take each one

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Speaker 1: of these things is like a major I guess in

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Speaker 1: affront to how we raise them, because I'm sure they

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Speaker 1: understand it was difficult and there's no roles for this,

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Speaker 1: especially they have kids of.

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Speaker 2: Their own, sure, and when they have kids of their own,

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Speaker 2: as I said, that's often a time when these conversations

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Speaker 2: come up because they're understanding things differently. They're seeing a

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Speaker 2: similar situation happen with their children that happened with them,

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Speaker 2: and they're recognizing how they handle it and how they

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Speaker 2: may have handled it similarly or differently to the way

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Speaker 2: their parents handled it. And so they're seeing the juxtaposition

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Speaker 2: of being a parent versus being a kid, and it

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Speaker 2: adds new perspectives to their childhood. And Yeah, it can

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Speaker 2: be a very difficult thing to hear from your kid

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Speaker 2: that things that you did didn't work well for them.

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Speaker 2: And the hardest ones, frankly, I think are the ones

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Speaker 2: that you thought you nailed and they're like no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: that was really bad. I mean I think right, all right,

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Speaker 2: so we can all look back and say, wow, I

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Speaker 2: really screwed that one up. I did not do that well.

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Speaker 2: And your kid says you did not do that well,

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Speaker 2: and you can say, no, I know, I really didn't

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Speaker 2: do that well. But the things you think you crushed

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Speaker 2: and they're like, nope, that was an epic fail. Those

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Speaker 2: are the hard ones because your perspectives really diverged there

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Speaker 2: in a very big way.

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Speaker 1: Well, instead of looking at this like an exit interview,

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Speaker 1: you probably should look at this as like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: know what, you're an adult, like, we're moving to a

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Speaker 1: different phase of our relationship, and the way to move

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Speaker 1: forward with it is having this conversation exactly.

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Speaker 2: And to understand how and why things happened the way

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Speaker 2: they happened. Usually when kids have these conversations with their parents,

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Speaker 2: they want to tell them their perspective, but then they

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Speaker 2: also really want to hear what was going on for

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Speaker 2: mom or dad at that point in time, why did

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Speaker 2: you choose this? Instead of that, I want to understand

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Speaker 2: you better too, not just I want to load all

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Speaker 2: unload all of this junk on you and then walk

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Speaker 2: away they're looking for some reconciliation, some understanding, some greater connection.

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Speaker 2: That's usually why they're doing it, and so keeping that

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Speaker 2: in mind can keep us as parents in the right headspace.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: She's Julie hattersh here, a licensed metal health expert. Here

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Speaker 1: on the Scotsland Show every Monday morning it's Mental Health

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Speaker 1: Monday with Julie. It is really informative. I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people listen and go, wow, Okay, I probably

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Speaker 1: should have this conversation, or maybe if you're an not

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Speaker 1: all kid, It's like, it's never too late to do this.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, meck you can always you can't fix or

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Speaker 1: you can't I guess change what happened, but you can

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Speaker 1: fix the way things are moving in the future. And

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Speaker 1: some closure as well. All the best, have a great week,

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Speaker 1: Appreciate you, Thank you, Bob. How about some news We

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Speaker 1: do that in three minutes here on seven hundred WWD, Cincinnati,