1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: It's Nike Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's new radio. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 2: Now we're talking music. As you know, the number six one, seven, two, five, 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: four ten. I hope you have that on your refrigerator. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 2: Does WBZ have fridge magnets with the number on it? 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: They must have at some point. Anyway, we're gonna talk 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: about punk rock that you might think that's kind of 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: a niche thing. Uh maybe not. You know, they don't 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: talk about that kind of thing on talk shows. But 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: you gotta remember that punk rock is a baby boomer 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: age phenomenon. It's been around a long time. So I 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: I having having been a DJ for a long long time, 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: you know, I search for new music and I read 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: a lot of band bios, and the band bios describe 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: the bands and they say, this is a punk band, 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: or this is a post punk band, or this is 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: an read a rock band. And I joy debating on 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 2: debating which bands are in which category. And I know 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: bands don't like to be pigeonholed, so they say, but 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: I don't care. That's why I'm going to do it anyway, 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: because I love it. And excuse me. One of my 21 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: best topics ever was I asked you tell me what 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: is your favorite power ballad? And folks called a lot. 23 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: But after a while the topic kind of transformed into 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: what is the definition of a power ballad? Because they'd 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: say yeah, song X, and I say, no way, is 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: that a power ballad? Because it needs to do this 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: and that and this and that. Hadn't really developed a definition, 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: and I think it's fun. So recently I posted on 29 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: Facebook and I have some of the responses here. Please 30 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: in some detail to find the the parts of us, 31 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: what you need to be to be punk and what 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: you can't be to be punk. Got a lot of responses, 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: and I've also invited an expert here, Jim Sullivan, former 34 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: Boston Globe writer and author of Backstation Beyond, with lots 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: of stories about his interviews, and they're great, great stories. 36 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: It's a cool book. You should definitely check it out 37 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: if you're a music person, especially somebody who probably went 38 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 2: to the same gigs Jim. Did you know if you're 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: of our age, you probably went and you might see 40 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: some photos of the actual gigs you went to. So Jim, 41 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: thanks for being with us. 42 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: Happy to be here, brother, all right, as you. 43 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: Know, I've had a was it something in mi cra 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 2: a bug in my crawl. I'm thinking I'm mixing my 45 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: metaphors here, but that's all right. Something stuck in my 46 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: craw because I see these lists of punk rock bands, 47 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 2: the Rolling Stone Top one hundred, and this and that 48 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: Top one hundred, and I see bands like Blink one 49 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: eighty two in these punk lists, and I said, that 50 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: cannot be. I will not live in a world where 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: that will stand. And then there's one kind of right 52 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: on the cusp that causes a lot of debate, and 53 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: that is Green Day. Green Day, to me, is not 54 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: a punk band. And I have taken some time, as 55 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: I believe you have to to come up with a 56 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: punk a definition of punk rock to see what bands 57 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: might be labeled as punk it really aren't. And of 58 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: course I want to ask all you in the audience 59 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: any your favorite punk band, favorite punk album, favorite punk show. 60 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: It's a punk hour and it encompasses a lot more 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: bands that you're familiar with. Then you might realize, like 62 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: many will include Billy Idol in there at least for 63 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: a while. And of course y'all Low White Wedding, now 64 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: is he punk? Then that's a debate. So we can 65 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: have that debate, Jim, do you want to go first 66 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: and how you define punk before we get into mine. 67 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 4: Sure, I think it can be a lot of things, 68 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 4: and there's no real wrong answer here, I don't think. 69 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 4: But the first thing I'd. 70 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: Start with is sort of an aesthetic that. 71 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 4: Begins with maybe a outside the system DIY sort of mentality. 72 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 4: And I'm talking about the punk, flash, new wave, whatever 73 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 4: you want to term it, that kind of got rolling 74 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 4: in the mid to late seventies, both in New York, 75 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 4: in London, also in Boston to a large extent, And 76 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 4: initially I think we're thinking in terms of, you know, 77 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 4: three chords, stripped down, lots of fury, lots of aggressions, 78 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 4: maybe not a lot of finesse, didn't matter. It was 79 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 4: music that was kicking against the arena rock, the hard 80 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: rock if you will, of the day. And so that's 81 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 4: how it sort of formed, I think in my head 82 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 4: and I think in real life. But within the punk 83 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 4: genre or the category, there's so many subgenres as well, 84 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 4: and the idea that say Talking Heads and Ramones both 85 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 4: considered to be under that punk rubric, well, very very 86 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 4: different bands but appealing in many ways to a similar audience. 87 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 4: So I'll start with that proudly. How's that sound? 88 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: That's good. I'm kind of a purist, and the reason 89 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: is that I just don't feel like like Green Day 90 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: should be in any category. The clashes in they just don't. 91 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: It's not right. Or the sex pistols, or these people 92 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: that live this actual punk lifestyle in New York City 93 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: or Orange County or wherever, they just don't get to 94 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: be in that category. And I'll give you, I'll give 95 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: you my definitions. And then, folks, what you could do 96 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: is give us a shout with the band, the band 97 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: you love, you think it's a punk band, or maybe 98 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: you're wondering Bill the idol, and say it's your favorite 99 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: punk song or favorite punk band, and let us kind 100 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 2: of talk about whether we think it's a punk band, 101 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: and maybe you want to defend it. Now, mine short songs. 102 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 2: Gotta have short songs. Three minutes of truth. The reason, 103 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: the reason for the season, the reason for punk really 104 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: was to destroy pro a rock big inflated a gazillion 105 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: that's hours of studio time, needed a lot of money, 106 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: needed to be really good at your instrument. What kind 107 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: of virtuosity was? Exclusion? Was an exclusion? It excluded people 108 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: from that method of expression. They just couldn't get a foothold, 109 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: so they didn't play very well. And to fight the fight, 110 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: the songs were short, three minutes of truth. I gotta 111 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: have short songs. And for one on one level, Green 112 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: Day is eliminated right there because they have one song 113 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: that's eleven minutes and forty seven seconds long. So you're 114 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: for me, Green Days already eliminated somebody that you mentioned 115 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: fury needed to be some fury. 116 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: In there, and there often was. 117 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: I agree, and I just see I see Green Days 118 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: and Incubis, okay, increbist doesn't have any fury. And so 119 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: when I see that kind of thing on the list, 120 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: I wanted off the list. Go ahead. You started to 121 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: say something. 122 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, just briefly to what you're talking about 123 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 4: with Green Day, I mean I would say second third 124 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 4: generation punk inspired, and then onto other things. I guess 125 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 4: the one thing I wanted to mention just at the 126 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 4: beginning sort of. I was talking to the classes late 127 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 4: and Joe Strummer back in nineteen seventy nine when they 128 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 4: first played the area Cambridge was then the Harvard Square Theater, 129 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 4: and I was asking him about it, and this is 130 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 4: a direct quote. He said, well, at least the young 131 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 4: people are playing rock and roll now. In nineteen seventy six, 132 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 4: they weren't because they couldn't see how they could, because 133 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 4: all the groups were just too big. How can you 134 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 4: be like yes and have a secret ambition to be 135 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 4: a rock and roller? I think forget it. I'll just 136 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 4: go back to my cleaning shop. Now people in England 137 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 4: realize that anybody can be a star and that goes 138 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 4: without exception, and that's a vital thing in rock and roll. 139 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 4: The beginners have got to realize they can be stars, 140 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 4: otherwise they ain't gonna bother with it. 141 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: That's right. Patty in Dorchester's Next and Nothing on WBZ. 142 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news Radio. 143 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 2: Patty in Dorchester, I'm going to get to you after this. 144 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: Leggs McNeil. Leggs McNeil is actually on the phone. A 145 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: big deal in the world of punk. He is an 146 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: American journalist and he's done all kinds of books and 147 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: films as well. He's co author of Please Kill Me, 148 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk. It's been published in 149 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: twelve languages. And so you don't that doesn't happen unless 150 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: it's big, and we are quite happy to have Legs 151 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: on with us. I know you're not into categorizing bands, 152 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: but at some point during a brief conversation here, it'd 153 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: be great if you could give me a sense of 154 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: what the scene was like when you were coming up 155 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: in the time during which the time of which you 156 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: wrote Please Kill Me, The Uncensored Oral History. But also 157 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: you have a memoir that you can talk about, and 158 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: you can take any of those in the order you like. 159 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us, Legs. 160 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 3: McNeil, Well, thanks for having me. What's your name, Bradley 161 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: J and B. 162 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: Well, it's actually my last name, and Jim Sullivan is 163 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 2: Jim Sullivan is with us as well. He's a music writer. 164 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 3: Well, hi, Jim, how are you they? 165 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 4: Legs? 166 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: Very good man. 167 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: Yes, So tell us about the little we you know, 168 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: we I was not there. We need you to tell 169 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 2: us what it was really like, Legs. 170 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 3: It was a lot of fun. You got to drink 171 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 3: and take take lots of drugs and have lots of sex. 172 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: I see, well, you did a book about it, and 173 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: I can't imagine that was all that was in the books. 174 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: There must be more can you give us an idea of. 175 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 3: Not really the world of punk. There was a bunch 176 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 3: of outsiders who came to New York City, and New 177 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 3: York City was really abandoned. It was at the end 178 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: of White flight in nineteen seventy five, when most of 179 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 3: the white people had moved out of New York City 180 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 3: and left. It was basically deserted and left minorities there 181 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 3: and there was burned out buildings on the Lower East Side. 182 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 3: I mean, no one wanted to you know, Ford in 183 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy four had just declared New York City bankrupt, 184 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 3: and you know, everyone was like, oh, it's filled with crime. 185 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: You don't want to move to New York And I 186 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: was like, yes, I do. I want to go and 187 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: you know, be where the action is right and that 188 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 3: Kevin Renstown. 189 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 2: Those squads were. You know, you could afford to live 190 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: in New York at the. 191 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: Time, Yeah, two hundred dollars a month. 192 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: Where did you live? What area did you live in? 193 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: Well, we we lived at the Punk Dump or the 194 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 3: Punk Magazine office, which was on thirtieth Street and tenth Avenue, 195 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 3: which was the entrance which was right at the entrance 196 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 3: to the Lincoln Tunnel and every afternoon we'd see transvestite 197 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 3: hookers that would I guess they're the guys in the 198 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 3: traffic waiting to go on to the UH Lincoln Tunnel. 199 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 3: Would hire them for them. 200 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 2: We only have a limited time. Can we stick to 201 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: the music? 202 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 3: The music was fantastic. 203 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: You'd go out every night. What bands would you see? 204 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: There were Moons, the Talking Heads, the Dead Boys, the Dictators, 205 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 3: Patty Smith Television, and then there were a lot of 206 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 3: other bands that you know, like the Fast and the Miamis, 207 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: and there were tons and tons of bands. Because of course, 208 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 3: no one but MAXs and CBGB's allowed you to play 209 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: original music. And before that it was all stadium rock. 210 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: So basically you'd go to a stadium and these you'd 211 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 3: see these tiny, ant like people and they'd be like 212 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 3: deep purple and you know, stuff like that, and you 213 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 3: couldn't even see them on stage. 214 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 2: The audience was much more engaged in. You know, you 215 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: were part of the show. If you were in a 216 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: small club and it was the pistols or it was 217 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: Ramones in front of you, it was much more you 218 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: you were part of the whole thing. You mentioned you write, 219 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: have written, or are writing a memoir. Can you talk 220 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 2: about that a little. 221 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 3: It's called resident Punk. It's about my life as being 222 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 3: kind of a teenage alcoholic runaway truant who came to 223 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 3: New York City and found CBGB's and joined the party. 224 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 2: No, well, you you were a journalist right away. You 225 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 2: looked up with a couple of buddies and decided you 226 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: wanted to make a living at writing. Isn't that correct? 227 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 3: Yes, but very reluctantly. I John Holmstrom had hired me 228 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 3: in high school. He was doing a comic strip in 229 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 3: Scholastic magazine called Joe, which was kind of a pre 230 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 3: teen my weekly reader for for for junior high school kids. 231 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: And so I was writing for that, making one hundred 232 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: and fifty dollars every time I wrote one. 233 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,359 Speaker 2: That's a lot in nineteen what seventy five dollars. 234 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 3: Or something like that. That was seventy three seventy four. Yeah, 235 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 3: that was a lot of cigarettes and a lot of beer. Yes, 236 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 3: of course, did you. 237 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: You must have since you went all went to all 238 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: these clubs, you must have become friends with some of 239 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 2: these bands and some of these artists. 240 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I was best I was best friends with 241 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 3: Joey Ramone or very very early on. Yeah, I was 242 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: friends with Patti Smith. I was friends with everybody. You know. 243 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: Did you hang it to Chelsea which has since been redone? 244 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: You must have. 245 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: No, I didn't hang out just Chelsea too much. We 246 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 3: didn't have a shower in the punk dump. So I 247 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 3: would always go to some good looking girl and say, hey, 248 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 3: do you mind if I take a shower in your house? 249 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: And they'd always say yes, it was great. 250 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: Did you have you done your memoir yet? Is it 251 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: out yet? 252 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 3: Yes? No, it's going to be out September twenty twenty six. 253 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: I was looking all over for it and I didn't 254 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: see it, so I thought that must be the case. Jim, 255 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: I got a couple of minutes before the break you 256 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: want to jump in there. 257 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 4: Well, I think Legg's got it right in terms of 258 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 4: the scene itself. I mean I was in Boston, so 259 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 4: I experienced that sort of Boston being kind of like 260 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 4: a little brother to what New York was. And of 261 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 4: course the bands that played CBS, you know, the Cramps, 262 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: the television, blondie talking heads, you know, Ramon to name them, 263 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 4: all came to Boston as well. And I mean the 264 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 4: East Coast. You know, if you want to say Boston, 265 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 4: Rhode Island, Provenance, and New York. 266 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 5: I mean it was really where it was at and where. 267 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 4: Like like I said, I mean, you needed bands that 268 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 4: played original material, and these guys did, and there was 269 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 4: just this burst of creativity that went in many directions, 270 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 4: like I was kind of saying earlier on today, but 271 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 4: just under under the rubric because there was no one, 272 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 4: you know, I mean, there was no good word for it, 273 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 4: I suppose, and then punk got coined like Steed. I 274 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 4: forget who coined it was. Do you know who actually 275 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 4: did coin the term? 276 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 3: That suck? 277 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: Why? 278 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 3: I did when when we started the magazine, But other 279 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 3: people had used it, like Billy Alman and Money Kay 280 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: and Dave Marsh had all used it before, and it 281 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 3: hadn't been It had been kind of a very specific 282 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 3: you know, Alice Cooper was over here, and you know, 283 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 3: it wasn't a unified thing until we started Punk Magazine, 284 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: which we started and seventy five and the first issue 285 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: came out January first, nineteen seventy six, so that kind 286 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: of named the movement. 287 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 2: I have a quick question. No, no, Jim, you go ahead, 288 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: I know, just real quickly. 289 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 4: I was just gonna compliment legs. Punk Magazine was one 290 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 4: of the greatest ever, very short, with I know, most 291 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 4: of three years, maybe before I don't know, but it 292 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 4: was so good. I was one of the very few 293 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 4: subscribers in Maine, I believe, oh really really yeah, yeah, 294 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 4: because I was there before I only won I think 295 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 4: maybe before I got to Boston. I subscribed to Punk 296 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 4: and it was just so good. I mean, I remember 297 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 4: the cover with Lou read the cartoon Lou Reid waring 298 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 4: out at us, the Adventures with Joey Ramone and Debbie 299 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 4: Harry serialized inside of it. Great, great magazine, so confluence 300 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 4: in retrospect, I get. 301 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 2: When can I Where can I get the memoir when 302 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: it comes out? Because I definitely want. 303 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 3: To get it everywhere, I guess everywhere. 304 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: So it is it better for you if people buy 305 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: in a store or is Amazon fan? You don't care. 306 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 2: I don't care, all right, some people do. Peter Wolf care. 307 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: You don't care. 308 00:17:54,320 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 3: Really well, Publishing has become such a weird thing these days. 309 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 3: You know, that's not like it was, you know, I mean, 310 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 3: magazines don't even exist anymore, you. 311 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: Know, appreciate the time we got a break. Now this 312 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: is the Legs McNeil, co author Please Kill Me, The 313 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 2: Unsansored Oral History of Punk. Really appreciate the time, brother, 314 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. 315 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 3: Is that it? 316 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 2: Now we're gonna break and we'll go to pat Patty 317 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: in Dorchester after this. 318 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: On w b Z, You're on night Side with Dan 319 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio. 320 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 2: Bradley Jay in for Dan talking about punk rock with 321 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: Jim Sullivan, Boston, former Boston Globe Rider and author of 322 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 2: a book, Backstation Beyond, which is worth totally worth getting. 323 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: He was on to talk about it some time ago. 324 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: But he's got some great stories. He's they gonna tell you, Jim, 325 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,239 Speaker 2: it's kind of fun to be with some you know, 326 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 2: speaking with you because we've been together through through the 327 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: ages when it comes to rock and seeing seeing shows 328 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 2: in Boston and being kind of in the media in Boston. 329 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 2: I love that there's that continuity here. You ready to 330 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: take a call from Patty and Dorchester? 331 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 3: Go for it, all right? 332 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 2: Patty in uh Dot, what's going on? Hi? 333 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 6: I was listening to you guys for a while now, 334 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 6: and I'm thinking maybe I'm I'm might be a little 335 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 6: bit off in my genre. I love punk, I love 336 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 6: you know, Ramones and the clash and the sexpiscles. But 337 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 6: in Boston at leads to my experience. I was really 338 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 6: young when punk really started becoming big, and the only 339 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 6: real punk stations you could hear was I think E 340 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 6: RS of Emerson maybe, or you. 341 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 2: Can do that on college stations. 342 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 7: Yes, yeah. 343 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 6: But the thing is, I think I'm leaning towards more 344 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 6: new ways because I'm thinking, you know, like Devo in 345 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 6: the cars and okay, talk, let's. 346 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: Talk about Divo for a minute. Okay, Jim, I almost 347 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: even though it's I almost have to put them in 348 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: a punk it's tough for me. What do you think? 349 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 4: Oh, now, well, they started way before punk when they 350 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 4: were at Kent State in the early seventies, there was 351 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 4: no such thing as punk, and they kind of grew 352 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 4: into that category, if you will. And then, of course 353 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 4: new wave, especially when with it became popular, MTV took off, 354 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 4: and Indivo was such a visual band that that gave 355 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 4: it well I mean, credibility, yes, but also visibility really 356 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 4: and they became i suppose controversial because of their their image. 357 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 4: People who are not in the punk mindset looking at 358 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 4: them wearing their flower pot heads and there their nuclear 359 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 4: protective suits, going what the heck is this? And I 360 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 4: mean they had a lot of jokes, a lot of 361 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 4: in jokes, and a lot of jokes that were pretty 362 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 4: hard edged, and that was, you know, definitely part of 363 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 4: a component of what the punk rock sensibility was. 364 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: We actually had Mark Mothersbaugh on here fairly recently and 365 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 2: we all, well, I'm sure you did, I did, and 366 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 2: maybe you did, Patty see the documentary on Devo. One 367 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 2: thing that was surprising to me is they they really 368 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: wanted to talk to let the country in the world 369 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 2: know that things were going south, that we were de evolving. 370 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: But they they their music was so punishing, nobody's going 371 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 2: to listen to it in the beginning, and they were shocked. 372 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 2: They didn't seem to understand why, you know, how why 373 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 2: is it? People liked Whip It, but they didn't like 374 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: the piercing, screeching, cacophony of random sounds that we were 375 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 2: doing before they were. And I felt like Mark Mothersbaugh 376 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: always had a chip on his shoulder because people just 377 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: didn't get it and they didn't like us until we 378 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: did Whip It, which had out to do with what 379 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 2: we initially wanted. 380 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 6: Was a straight Cat. I always feel like they were 381 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 6: they were they more punk on the monoray the straight Cats, Oh, 382 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 6: straight Cats, Jim not punk? 383 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: Well I don't know, no, no, no, no. 384 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 6: Again rockabilly, that's right. See I always forget about that 385 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 6: one too. Okay, okay, yeah, but yeah, I think I mean, 386 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 6: at least you guys probably know a lot more about 387 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 6: this than I do. Commercially successful punk bands were not 388 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 6: huge in Boston. I mean, well, there wasn't. Actually, there 389 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 6: weren't a lot of huge, commercially successful punk band except 390 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 6: with me. 391 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 2: For me to be punk, the whole esthetic is we're 392 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 2: not going to be commercially successful, and there has to 393 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: be some degree of self destruction, both professionally and personally. 394 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 2: But I have a purest view. 395 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 3: Go ahead, well, let me jump in here, because I've 396 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 3: got a very good visual radio as tough with visuals, 397 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 3: I know. But I wrote this for. 398 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 4: An in an introduction to Michael Greco's photo book Punk 399 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 4: New Wave, just. 400 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: To paragraph here. 401 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 4: What was it like visually? Well, it was Steve Baters 402 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 4: of the Dead Boys, cutting his bare chest like Iggy 403 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 4: Pop and sticking his head inside the kick trum. It 404 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 4: was Iggy taking Here's the little eggy out of his 405 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 4: pants to do a dance on stage. It was the 406 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 4: Cramps like Interior doing the same as well as punching 407 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 4: out a stage crasher who in all fairness had been 408 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 4: warned by Lucks not to do that anymore. And it 409 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 4: was Giddy Haynes of the Bottle Surfers overturning a crash 410 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 4: symbol at the channel, spraying lighter fluid on it, sending 411 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 4: flames to the roof of the club in frankly and 412 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 4: dangering fifteen hundred people, which brings me. 413 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 2: To my next My next criterion criterion is there has 414 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: to be a little bit of You have to be 415 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: a little bit afraid in the audience. You know that 416 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: if you get if you were in the sex Pistols audience, 417 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 2: in the audience, you know you could get spit off. 418 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: It was it was not where you would go to 419 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 2: be comfortable. You had to be a little bit afraid. 420 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: And you mentioned the cars, I wouldn't. I would not 421 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: put them in punk because for a bunch of reasons. 422 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 6: I really wouldn't though, because I feel like only the 423 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 6: sex Pistols, and again like the butthole Surfers and even 424 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 6: the dead Kennedy. Yeah, those guys are pumped. 425 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 2: Yes you whoops, thank you. I thought you had done there, Patty. 426 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 2: That was a good, good call. Now we go to 427 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 2: Ned and Maine. 428 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 3: Hi. 429 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: Ned, You're on w b Z with Jim Sullivan and 430 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 2: Bradley j Let me. 431 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 7: All right, thanks for taking my call. A few bands 432 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 7: mentioned were around long before punk was even popular. Debo 433 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 7: was talked about. An American band, per Ubu was one 434 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 7: that you know, punk rock came along and brought. 435 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 8: These bands out of the shadows English bands like Cabaret 436 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 8: Voltaire and Troby Gersel. But what I really wanted Jim 437 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 8: to comment on are some of the post punk bands 438 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 8: that came out. These bands were influenced by the first 439 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 8: wave of punk, but you know, took influences everywhere from 440 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 8: American psychedelia to German electronica and named. Some name of 441 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 8: bands come to mind like Wire, Enjoy Division Section twenty five. 442 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 8: For me, were some of the most exciting music that 443 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 8: came out of the whole punk rock movement. 444 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 2: I heard someone saying then I late Jim answer that 445 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: they found Public Image Limited would featured John Lyden, Johnny 446 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: Rotten far more exciting and interesting than the sex speciles 447 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 2: and I myself agree with that. So can you add 448 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: a dress Ned's statement? 449 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 5: Jim, Yeah, I mean I think he's right. 450 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 4: Certainly, the post punk era was a great era. I mean, 451 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 4: in some ways, punk itself, well he did it die, 452 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 4: not exactly, but he kind of left the stage a 453 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 4: little bit, and the post punk bands took it over 454 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 4: the once he mentioned very much so, and you know, 455 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 4: I think there was probably more musicianship. There was also 456 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 4: more range, I suppose would be a good way to 457 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 4: put it, and also more the freedom to be to 458 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 4: run the gamut of emotions a little more so, and 459 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 4: for instance, enjoyed a vision. There was the despair, there 460 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 4: was the depression as well as the anger that was 461 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 4: there as well. But it was a form of music 462 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 4: that it encompassed more, I guess is the best way 463 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 4: to put it. Both more chords, more ideas, but very 464 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 4: much rooted in the punk aesthetic as well. And without 465 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 4: punk kicking down those doors, those bands wouldn't have existed 466 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 4: or had an audience. And I mean I remember it 467 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 4: talking to Stuart Cope with the Police back in seventy nine, 468 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 4: and I was in kind of a feisty movement. I 469 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 4: was sort of going, ah, you guys, you know not 470 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 4: a punk band, and he said no, no, we're not. 471 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 4: And he said, this isn't the quote. What happened to 472 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 4: the music scene in England? He said, the punks kicked 473 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 4: down the doors of the music business establishment. They broke 474 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 4: through the rigid system that blocked out any new music. 475 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 4: Punk has not failed in America or in England. And 476 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 4: to say punk is dead, no, it's coming to America. 477 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 4: There's so many good groups in England. It will make 478 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 4: your head spin. And it's happening because the punk's kicked 479 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 4: down those doors. 480 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 2: I'd like to address up what you said about post 481 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: punk or the post punk word. One of the reasons 482 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,959 Speaker 2: that I don't feel Green Day or Inky was anyone 483 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 2: are actually punk like that is because of the phrase 484 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 2: post punk. That means punk was done when post punk came. 485 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: It's post war means the war is over. Post punk 486 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: means punk is over. So for me the purist, it 487 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 2: had to happen during that time period. Otherwise it's something else, 488 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 2: a punk tribute, you know, pop punk, something. But that 489 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: the fact that the word post punk exists adds fuel 490 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: to my fire that punk was of a specific time. Thanks, ned, 491 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 2: that was a good one. Appreciate. 492 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 3: Okay, thanks, that was brought You're right. 493 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 4: I mean it was born of a specific time, and 494 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 4: it kind of had its run, I suppose. But you've 495 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 4: got to realize too, it had different iterations in different generations. 496 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 4: The Anti Nowarth League, for instance, in the early mid eighties, 497 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 4: they came along as a definite punk band in the 498 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 4: midst of new waves slash post punk, and it was like, 499 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 4: you know, we're really kind of a throwback, very much 500 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 4: true to what the punk rock, initial punk rock ethos was, 501 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 4: and you know, then you get into your green day, 502 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 4: as you said, and other bands like the Offspring Who 503 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 4: or I Just like that who were obviously inspired by it, 504 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 4: but they were too young to be punk back the 505 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 4: day they were kids. They were in the diapers. I 506 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 4: remember talking to the guys in Rancid and when I 507 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 4: told them I'd seen the clash, it was like, what 508 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 4: told me? More, It's like, because you know, this is 509 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 4: something that they knew sort of by proxy, they'd heard 510 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 4: on the radio, or they'd heard their friends talk. 511 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 5: About it, whatever, and they wanted to do their own. 512 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 4: Version of them. And so I think that in that sense, 513 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 4: punk lived then is now. But in terms of the 514 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 4: initial wave, you know, we're talking about something in this 515 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 4: mid to late seventies. 516 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 2: One finite definition might be that if Legs McNeil didn't 517 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: see them, they're not punk, because he probably saw every 518 00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: real punk band during the real punk time. And I 519 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 2: mean that's one way to define it. By the way, 520 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: thanks to Legs for calling in again. That book is 521 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 2: Please Kill Me, The uncerdent Oral History of Punk, and 522 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: he's got a memoir coming out soon. We'll get the 523 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: Patricia Medway and More with Jim Sullivan on WBZ WBZ 524 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 2: Bradley Jay in for Dan Ray on Night Sideway with 525 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: Jim Sullivan, music writer having some fun talking about punk 526 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: and after the call from PATRISA Medway, Jim, let's talk 527 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 2: a little bit about Boston punk because a lot of 528 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: these bands are back together and you can see them. 529 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: They they do either one off or they're gigging. So anyway, 530 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 2: patrese In Medway say hello to Jim Sullivan on WBZ. 531 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: Paterse In Medway. 532 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 3: Then with Sun is a sceno punk rock? 533 00:30:54,200 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, there's a very declarative, concise call right there. 534 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 2: I wonder which bands he likes. But I guess we'll 535 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: never know that, so, you know, I h as I mentioned. 536 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: That's why I say, you know. I did post a 537 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 2: question on Facebook a couple of days ago. I got 538 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 2: some responses from people like Richie Parson's Richie Parson's Punk Guy, 539 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: un Natural Acts, I think Future Dad's Grammys and he 540 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: said the following, and I thank you for this response. 541 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 2: It was thoughtful, unlike others who just kind of said 542 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: it's an attitude or something like that. I mean, Frank 543 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 2: Zappa had an attitude, but he does not really qualify. 544 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: Richie says punk was about attitude and expressing that attitude 545 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 2: through music, art passion. For someone it was a political 546 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 2: and class was about political and class as well. For me, 547 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 2: it was about the energy of the the people, the lifestyle. 548 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: I was exposed to, the humor and fun. I could 549 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 2: incorporate it into my version of punk. So there's a 550 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: you know, a Boston guy. And of course you were 551 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: around for all those shows, Jim, who did you see? 552 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: What names pop up? Any memories involved with Boston punk? 553 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 2: And were there any Boston punk rockers in the backstage 554 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: in your book? Backstage? 555 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, well mission Obama is in there. Certainly the 556 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 4: cars are in there again splitting hairs here at punk 557 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 4: new Wave, But actually the other three were no not 558 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 4: Jay Coolspan, Aerosmith, and the Pixies, who would be considered 559 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 4: I suppose a post punk band forming when they did. 560 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean it was a very fertile period 561 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 4: for Boston rock and roll, for punk rock in the 562 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 4: like I said, I get here in wait seventy eight 563 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 4: and jumped right in and it was literally you could 564 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 4: be out five six it's a week if you have 565 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 4: the money and the time and could stand in the 566 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 4: daylight the late night hours it took. You could see 567 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 4: great stuff all over the place, and that would be 568 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 4: from local bands and from national bands coming in and 569 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 4: just a very magical time. And of course, like anything, 570 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 4: you sort of when you're in the midst of that, 571 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 4: you go, this is so great, this is gonna be, 572 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 4: what a great lifetime, this is going to be in 573 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 4: the kind of shades and things shift. But I got 574 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 4: to say there was a period there where it was 575 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,719 Speaker 4: just really special. 576 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 2: You know, there are venues people are they correctly whine 577 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 2: about that the venues are gone away, but there's still 578 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 2: there some out there and if you want to see 579 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 2: it like a reunion of eighties Boston punk band, they 580 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 2: do exist. I have a friend Paul. He runs and 581 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: I wear I wear still a called Spectacle, and his 582 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 2: band is called Spectacle, and he's a quins punk and 583 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 2: he hung around with all those other Quincy punks and 584 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 2: he still gigs. He was at the Midway Cafe the 585 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 2: other day and I went and I just thought that 586 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 2: was the most wonderful thing. And they're out there. It 587 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: wouldn't surprise me if Richie Parson's still gigs. 588 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 4: I think Richie has or had at least all doesn't dance, 589 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 4: and I'm sure he is. 590 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:24,919 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just his absolute life. Let's see. Here's 591 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 2: another definition, and this comes from Mara Dolan, whom whom 592 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 2: who is I believe was a student of a dean coin. 593 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 2: She's probably a lawyer now because he is the dean 594 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,919 Speaker 2: of a law school. And she was there too, punk 595 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: his bear bones, no money, no training, just an unstoppable 596 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 2: determination to make music and be heard. And I had 597 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 2: in there. There was a certain like Legs McNeil mentioned, 598 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 2: poor and desperate factor for me, and as I mentioned, 599 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: a little bit threatening to the audience short songs. And 600 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 2: again just and I think you agreed that the mere 601 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 2: fact that there is a thing called post punk means 602 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 2: it had to come from this time period, whether it 603 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 2: maybe it was seventy five day eighty two or something 604 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 2: like that. Let's go to David in San Francisco. I 605 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 2: helpe you on topic tonight. David. It's a brief, very 606 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: brief call. 607 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 7: Hey Briley, Yeah, David here, let me ask you me 608 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 7: that have you ever heard of a band called Flipper? 609 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 4: Of course, Derek California, Well, Flipper, big Flipper fan. 610 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: And you know, Jim, you used Flipper as an exception 611 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 2: to the short song rule. 612 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 3: Right. 613 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 2: I was talking to you and I said podcasts to 614 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 2: have short songs, and you said. 615 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 3: Well maybe not No, not exactly. 616 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 7: They're a local San Francisco band. And Chris n was 617 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 7: Selwick who was a bass player in Nirvana when for 618 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 7: Nevadava Coupy he joined the Flipper. 619 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 2: That's a good point connection there, So I'm going to 620 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: let you go a good good point, David. 621 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 4: Go ahead, Jay, Yeah, And Flipper was a very important 622 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 4: man for Nirvana, and they're sort of their building one 623 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 4: of their building blocks certainly, And badly. What you were 624 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 4: talking about. The long song thing, I mean, Flipper was 625 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 4: came out during the hardcore punk era early eighties, and that. 626 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 5: They were an anomaly in that grouping, if you will, because. 627 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 3: They favored very very. 628 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 4: Slow plotting songs and sometimes very long songs. One of 629 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 4: them I remember very well. I saw it at the 630 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 4: Channel Club. It hadn't been recorded yet, so. 631 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 3: It was new to me. 632 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 4: The only words in the song were if I can't 633 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 4: be drunk, I don't want to be alive, and it ground, 634 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 4: it ground on and on and on for about nine 635 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 4: ten eleven minutus whatever it was. And the thing what's 636 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 4: so great about the song is that I'm not I'm 637 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 4: still to this day, I'm not sure whether it was 638 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 4: just pure truth or ironic. And uh, you know, given 639 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 4: the fate of one of the band members, Will Shatter, 640 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 4: who overdosed and died, I don't know. Maybe it was 641 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 4: just that was the reality of the songwriter. But but 642 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 4: it's a great song in it it's very hooky. Even 643 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 4: though it goes on forever, you just anticipated coming around again, 644 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 4: and you know, it was in a weird way because 645 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 4: of its length, because of its tempo. It really stuck 646 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 4: out and that's one of the things that made Flipper 647 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 4: such a great band. And they have existed, you know, 648 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 4: off and on through the two thousands. 649 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 3: Up. 650 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 2: It's actually the hour is over, and I really, oh 651 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,439 Speaker 2: my goodness, I know it goes fast, right. I really 652 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 2: appreciate it. Being with us a huge help. Thanks for 653 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 2: thanks for being with me. Appreciate it. Thank you, Breby 654 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 2: Jim Well, that was fun. Next hour is open Lines, 655 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 2: so if you didn't get in there, you certainly can. 656 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 2: I want to talk about the clash a little bit, 657 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 2: but I have other stuff to talk about. I have 658 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 2: some stories to share. Open Lines next on WBZ.