1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,080 Speaker 1: Talk station. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 2: Six point thirty on a Friday, and they're happy with you. 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 2: Right time to be tuned into the fifty five Kersse 4 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 2: Morning Show. It's appointment listening time, brought to you by Intrust. 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: It found on line at interust dot com corner the 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: Business Current. They are the absolute best in the business 7 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: when it comes to computers and business related computer needs, security, 8 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: best practices, setting up systems, digging you out of the 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: hole you dug yourself in because you didn't pay attention 10 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: to what Dave Hatter tells us every Friday. Welcome back, 11 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: Dave Hatter, appreciate you doing this every week. 12 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, always my pleasure, Brian. You know, as I say 13 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: all to you all the time, I hope we're doing 14 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: some good out there. People are winding up on these topics. 15 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: If you save one person from the devastating mistakes that 16 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: so many people make online, you have done a great 17 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 2: service to society. If people choose to not heed your advice, 18 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: well I think you give them an indication of what's coming. 19 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: And this one shocked me not at all. The rundown 20 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: says deleted doesn't actually mean deleted it. I've always said 21 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: this from a person with back basically zero computer experience 22 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 2: or knowledge. Uh if if you if you post anything, 23 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: it's out there literally forever. You can't unring the internet bell. 24 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: That's pretty much true. But it's even broader than that, 25 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: brind So you know this, this this sad Nancy Guthrie 26 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: case has brought several things to light, which I'm hoping 27 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: is making people wake up to something you and I 28 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: have talked about, literally from more than a decade, concerned 29 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: around the Internet of things aka smart device, store bells, 30 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: burn afs, TV's cars, whatever. 31 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: Right, and pacemakers too apparently. 32 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Well, I mean, let's let's put it this way. 33 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: If you have a device that can connect to the Internet, 34 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: then it's at least smart ish. Okay, you know it 35 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: can send and receive data. It's collecting some kind of 36 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: data certainly, or what would its point be, right, It's 37 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: got software in it. And as I've tried to explain 38 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: to people for a long time, I'm not in cerently 39 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: against this stuff. What I'm really against is most people 40 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: see the convenience, the potential convenience and or coolness factor 41 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: of these things and just go buy stuff. They don't 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: know where it came from. Most of it came from China. 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: They don't really understand that the software inside it is 44 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: usually not very good, is not geared towards your privacy 45 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: and security, needs to be updated, and is probably not 46 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: configured correctly out of the box. That these companies have 47 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: a goal of speed to market, market share, needs of use, 48 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: not protecting your privacy and security, and ultimately collecting as 49 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: much of your data if possible, to monetize it to 50 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: sell it to other companies, et cetera. So, as a consumer, 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: while these things seem cool and seem to provide convenience 52 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: for you, they're typically not geared to your interests whatsoever. 53 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: Some would argue it's a privacy and security dempster fire. 54 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I would be one of those people who would argue that, 55 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: and very smart people like Michel Oppone and a well 56 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: known cybersecurity expert, has written a book called If It's Smart, 57 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: It's So You got the security problem and then you've 58 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: got the privacy problem. We've talked about the cameras, the microphones, 59 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: when is it listening? You have access to that data 60 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: to this This Nest situation with Nancy guffrids Perk shows 61 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: that rips the Nest camera off the off the door 62 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: they have, they find video of this, and that's the trick. 63 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: Right at first they said, well, she didn't have a 64 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: subscription and we don't have access, there's no data. Then 65 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: the FBI gets involved and finds, like ten days later, 66 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: wait a minute, we found some video. And the first 67 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: question I got asked by people was how do they 68 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: do this? Dave, I'm like, well, I don't know. I 69 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: don't think about a mass camera because shockingly, you know, 70 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: I don't have any ring doorbells, et cetera. So my 71 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: first thought was, well, okay, the camera probably has some 72 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: kind of on device storage, so that if your Wi 73 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: Fi connection goes down, for example, it could store that 74 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: data temporarily and then send it to Amazon's cloud. But 75 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: I want to to Google's cloud. I want to remind people, 76 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: if you have a device that can stream video, it 77 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: unless you are very technically sophisticated and know how to 78 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: set something like this up there stuff, it's definitely going 79 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: to somebody's cloud, at least for some period of time. 80 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: So then you dig into it and find out the next. 81 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: Cameras work a little differently than most of the rest. 82 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: They're always storing stuff for at least the short period 83 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: of time. Even if you don't pay for the subscription, 84 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: you may not be able to access it. But they can. 85 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: But the real trick, Brian, and I know we're about 86 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: out of time. The real trick is they theoretically delete 87 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: this data. Now, you mentioned the cloud, but I want 88 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: to explain something real quick to people. When you delete 89 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: something on visually any digital device you can think of, 90 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: it is not physically removed from the device. It's telling 91 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: the device the space that it used to occupy. Could 92 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: be a word document and Excel spreadsheet and video and 93 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: NP three file, whatever it is. It's telling that device 94 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: the space that it used to occupy is now available. 95 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: And unless than until it's overwritten, it's still just sitting there. Now, 96 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: you don't have to have a skill to recover something 97 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: that was the quote deleted unquote. Now if you overwrite it, 98 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: and there are tools to do this, there are standards 99 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: to quote purge data, okay, because deleting it does not 100 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: get rid of it. Overwriting it once trivial to Otever, 101 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: if you know what you're doing, you may have to 102 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: overwrite it. Part of the government as many as twenty 103 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: two times. But when you yeah, when you think you're 104 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: deleting something, it's still there, as has been illustrated by this. 105 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: So this isn't just your personal computer, your phone. It's 106 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: stuff out in the cloud. To mention, many different doubt 107 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: switches a server that then if we're an ended wherever 108 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 1: it was when they recovered. So the point is these 109 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: devices are not your friends, and you're not really deleting 110 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: things unless you are very sophisticated to know what you're doing, 111 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: or you destroy the device. Indeed, so folks got to 112 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: wake up. This got to wake up folks. The less 113 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: editive things devices. 114 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: You have, the better something to contemplate as you use 115 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: your internet connected marital aid. Apparently those are out there. 116 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: Let's let's god, yes they are. 117 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: Apparently, as senior scams are all the razy today. He's 118 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: got a story about an eighty two year old got scammed. 119 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: We'll do that coming at next and then we'll talk 120 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: station six forty if you got KCD talk station Dave 121 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 2: had her find Dave and his company and his team 122 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: to help you with your business computer needs at intrust 123 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: it dot com. So I just weep for the seniors, 124 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: and I think of my mom struggling with technology, Dave 125 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: had her And you know, I love my mom and 126 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: I understand where she's at is. I find it very 127 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: difficult to keep up with modern technology as well, and 128 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: I follow your advice. I use very little of it, 129 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 2: you know, forget the apps, forget the crap. I've lived 130 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: my life without most of that. But what a great 131 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: vehicle they are for scamming people, most notably seniors who 132 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: are really pretty much out of their element. 133 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're sadly exactly right, Brian. And this is a 134 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: tragic story. First off, I have a lot of respect 135 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: for this woman who came forward and told this story. 136 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: You know, I talk about this stuff pretty much every 137 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: day with businesses and all shapes and sizes, trying to 138 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: get them to take this stuff seriously, you know. But 139 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: interest our goal is to make your ensure your environment 140 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: is productive. Right. You got to be able to work, 141 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: You got to be able to do what you need 142 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: to do. So that's the key thing. It's not just 143 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: about security, it's productivity. It's resilience. So if and when 144 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: something bad does happen, doesn't have to be a cyber attack. 145 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: Things die, right that every one of your listening audiences 146 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: has lost data at some point, and then secure. Those 147 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: are the three key things we're trying to focus on, 148 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: and we're trying to do it in a quick, friendly way. 149 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: So all that said, I'm talking to people all the 150 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: time about this, and so many guests don't take it seriously. 151 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: They think it will never happen to them. They don't 152 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: realize how sophisticated the scammers are, not necessarily from a 153 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: technological standpoint, which they are in some cases, but so 154 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: much of this is these are just professional con artists 155 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: who are using the tools that are available both to 156 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: get to people and then fool people. Right. They're using 157 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: social engineering to trick them. They're creating an urgency and 158 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: thankfully for them, because you have access to people now, 159 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,679 Speaker 1: whether it's mail, text, messages, social media, chat apps, video games, 160 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: et cetera. They go where people are right. So again, 161 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: I got a lot of respect for this woman to 162 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: come forward and tell her tale, because I think it's 163 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: much more compelling to hear from someone that's happened to 164 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: than old Doomsday Day with his two squal hat just 165 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: telling you this might happen to you, right exactly, this 166 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: will lost almost two hundred thousand dollars, and I'm reading 167 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: directly from the article. Eighty two year old grandmother lost 168 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: nearly two hundred thousand dollars after scammers used an AI 169 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: generated deep fake of a doctor to confense her to 170 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: convert her retirement savings to cryptocurrency. So she followed some 171 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: doctor I never heard of, she saw something online, reaches out, 172 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: and then the scammers again. I can ignore online right 173 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: now and create a Facebook profile and claim to beauty 174 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: when I want right you see that, you think you're 175 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: dealing with the real person. And this this has happened 176 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: many times. People have been scammed by celebrities quote unquote, 177 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: So scammer, you've reached out to me, and I use 178 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: deep fake tools to create video and audio that appears 179 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: to be this person. Easily done, especially if that person's 180 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: a celebrity. And I like to remind people, if you 181 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: have a voicemail greeting, I can call your phone, record 182 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: your voicemail greeting, and use free tools to clone your 183 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: voice in about fifteen minutes. I have done this numerous times, 184 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: including for a reporter out of a station in Columbus. 185 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: No way, it came down. Yeah, and we literally I'll 186 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: send you the link. Mind, we literally called his phone, 187 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: recorded his voicemail greeting, and then you can watch in 188 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: the interview how we turned his voice into me typing 189 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: on the keyboard and saying whatever I wanted to say 190 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: is him? This is real, folks, Well again this woman, 191 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: go ahead. 192 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: No, it's going to remind you about the secure word. 193 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: You're like my mom, like going back to my mom, 194 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: we have a password. If I ever received a phone 195 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: call from my mom and middle that I talked about 196 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 2: how she's in desperate help, Oh my god, something we 197 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 2: got a guy give me a gift card or whatever 198 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 2: scam they're going to use that way, what's the password? 199 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: No artificial intelligence is going to be able to know 200 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: what the specific password you orally establish with your loved 201 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: ones is. So start with that, and you know, if 202 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: they can't answer the question, then hang up. 203 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: Healthy does this skepticism And for your family and for 204 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: like senior executives in your company, for people that have 205 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: access to money, you should definitely have some kind of 206 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: password or passphrase that's only known between the people so 207 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: that when you start talking to one of these scammers 208 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: using one of these tools, whether they leave you a voicemail, 209 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: where do they try and do it real time? And 210 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: another tell for this is if you're talking to a 211 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: scammer or using some kind of deep bake tool to 212 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: close someone's voice, you may get a weird pause because 213 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: they have to type in what they want to respond 214 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: with and wait for it to generate. That concept. So 215 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: if you ask me a question and I don't respond 216 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: for like four or five seconds every time, your getting 217 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: scammed or there's some kind of network, but let me 218 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: last before a rount of times. So molec this individual 219 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: who got scammed hope the investment with security feature for 220 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: her autistic grandson and significantly increase of money, and trusted 221 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: doctor Corey. This person. Then it goes on to say, 222 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: now this is a direct quote from the article. I've 223 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: really respected doctor Corey for a long time, and it 224 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: was apparently an AI, which I don't understand that much 225 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: about Malek said, but it was him talking and he 226 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: was recommending a way to increase my money using crypto 227 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: unquot So this is the scam individual the victim explaining 228 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: exactly what happened. She says, there was a video of 229 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: him talking. It was obviously AI, and I don't know 230 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: how that works, but I believed it and I fell 231 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: for it, and I have nobody to blame but myself. 232 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: So again, yeah, she basically lost all her money and 233 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: I just I cannot truss enough clotes. This stuff is real. Again, 234 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: I will end today's show notes postal link to that 235 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: interview again with the reporter from Columbus, so people can 236 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: see for themselves how real this is. You're right, Brian, password, passphrase, 237 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: whatever you call it, but secret and known between your 238 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 1: key people, skepticism and it. But it's getting harder and 239 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: harder to tell looking at a video or an audio, 240 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: listening to an audio if it's real or not. The quality 241 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: of these things continues to go. 242 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: Up spring from the proposition that what you are looking 243 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 2: at or hearing is fake. Start there and then work 244 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: backward until you so you can establish that it's real. 245 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: So default mechanism, skepticism, cynicism, fake, learn something every day 246 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: with you, Dave Hammer at home man every single week. 247 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: World. Trust Now it's verified. 248 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: Don't go away. They're doing it at scale. Another reason 249 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 2: how it's become so easy to do all this. Yes, 250 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: there are seven eight billion people in the world, but no, 251 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: you will be the target of a scammer six forty 252 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: seven PRESTIESE Interiors. You're not being scamm when you're dealing 253 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 2: with six fifty one and fifty five KRCD Talk station 254 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 2: Tech Friday Me Dave had or one more segment here 255 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 2: to talk about industrial scale deep fake fraud's happening. But 256 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 2: you mentioned checking out the materials that he uses in 257 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: connection with this, and as well as stuff throughout the 258 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 2: week that Dave posts. The place you go for that 259 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: LinkedIn dot com. LinkedIn dot com just type in Dave 260 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 2: Hatter and you will certainly run into him right there. 261 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: So we've got inexpensive and easy to deploy at scale. 262 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 2: Apparently no longer required a great technical and computer experience 263 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 2: to do a deep fake. Anybody can do it, Dave. 264 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Brian, that is exactly right. This is a great book. 265 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: In to the last story about the woman who lost 266 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: a bunch of money to one of these stamps, yes, 267 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: unfortunately is not novel at this point. It's happening all 268 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: the time, and that's really what this story from the 269 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: Guardian gets at. And as I mentioned in that last segment, 270 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: so in my show notes, I'll post a link to 271 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: that interview I did with the Steve Levine from Columbus, 272 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: where we literally cloned his voice using a voicemail greeting 273 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: from his phone. So the Guardian says, AI content for 274 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: scams can be targeted individuals and produced by pretty much anybody. 275 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: Researchers say so, I'm reading directly from the article, and 276 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: they say, you know, deep fake is fraud as going 277 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: industrial tools to create tailor. He's a personalized scan letting. 278 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: For example, deep sake videos of sweets journalists with the 279 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: President of Cyprus are no longer niche, but inexpensive, easy 280 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: to deploy at scale, said the analyst. So let me again. 281 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: I have done several of these now just to demonstrate this. 282 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: Did one with John Mattaree here in town, did one, 283 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: let's see one with Fox nineteen one with ABC six 284 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: out of Columbus. And here's the bottom line, Brian. In 285 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: every one of these cases, I went out, especially the 286 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: first time with John Matteis, literally went out after he 287 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: said let's do this thing and you and I could 288 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: try this if you want. I just went and did 289 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: a search and found a site that claimed to be 290 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: able to do this, never done it before, had zero 291 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: experience with this found a fight. They claimed to do it, 292 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: created an account played with a little bit. John shows up. 293 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: He had to read a sentence to train the model, 294 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: and then you can literally watch me type of his 295 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: voice come out of my speakers. But I was over 296 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: two years two years ago. Not that great. And again 297 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: it's just audio. We did not try to do videos. Okay, 298 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: so fast forward to this last time I did this 299 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: with ABC six out of Columbus. Like I say, the 300 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: reporter shows up, he gives me a cell phone number. 301 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: I call his cell phone, I record, literally, put his 302 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: phone on a desk, turn my computer on, hit record, 303 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: I record his voice from his cell phone. I upload 304 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: that into a different tool that claims to be able 305 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: to do this, But I also had not used before 306 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: and did not spend any money on and within thirty 307 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: minutes you can watch me type and his voice come 308 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: out of my speakers. This is trivially easy. Now, what 309 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: they're trying to get out of the article is the 310 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: hackers have access to much better tools than the free 311 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: things I'm using. You know, would you pay let's say, 312 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: one hundred bucks a month to have access to a 313 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: much better tool with much higher capabilities? If you could 314 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: scam ten thousand dollars a day out of people, or 315 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: get on once a week two hundred thousand dollars hit 316 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: like on this poor woman who lost her her life savings. 317 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: You know, in many cases they may even be paying 318 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: for this stuff to get access to better tools. Now, 319 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: think of all the data that has been stolen leaked 320 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: about you. I keep trying to bring this back to people, 321 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: all these devices collecting your data, all of the people 322 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: who are willingly uploading their data all over the place 323 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: through these apps and the Internet of things devices, and 324 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: say something along the lines of I don't care about privacy, 325 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: I have nothing to worry about. Fine, great, you probably 326 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: don't understand surveillance capitalism or surveillance pricing, where your prices 327 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: are changed based on the profiles of data these companies 328 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: have about you. But when your data gets leaked and 329 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: you get one of those data breach notices, think of 330 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: all the data that might be capture recked you, especially 331 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: from a background check company like National Public Data that 332 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: lost two billion records. I know so much about you. 333 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: If I had access to a background check, I could 334 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: easily craft very very detailed and very very authentic appearing emails, 335 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: text messages, or deep sake voice calls and deep sake 336 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 1: video targeted at you. It's not just this sounds like 337 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: your son's voice or your boss's voice, or your spouse's 338 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: voice or whatever. They know things about you that theoretically 339 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: only that person would know because your data has been 340 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,959 Speaker 1: stolen and leaked and they're using it to amp up 341 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: the social engineering and convince you that what you're seeing 342 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: or hearing is legit. Does this make sense what I'm 343 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: saying Brian to that, don't think people connect these dots. 344 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: And it's the key part of this. It's not just 345 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: the capability of these tools. It's they now have all 346 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: of this data to feed into it to create things 347 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: that unless you're aware of this, why would you question it? Right? 348 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 2: No, it's coming through loud and clear as it always does, Dave. 349 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: That's why I always say, you know, you've got to 350 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: pay attention to what you say every week, mean you 351 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: spell it out and very easy to understand, simplistic terms. 352 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 2: And who hasn't gotten to notice about some of their 353 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: data being leaked on the internet. And I might email 354 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: and my home address. You know, I got LifeLock and 355 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 2: it let me know every time somebody in the dark 356 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 2: webs posted information about me like lo and behold, gee, 357 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: how difficult is it to figure out where Thomas lives? 358 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: Those online auditors sites that can help you help you 359 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 2: do that, and a lot more data being stolen out 360 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 2: there and posted every place self. So heed what Dave 361 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: says LinkedIn dot com. 362 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: I hate to be the doing today guy. Well, it's real, 363 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: it's and they're not. 364 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 2: A gooday guy, you're just spelling out reality, Dave. 365 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: I know we're out of time, but to the end 366 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: of the LinkedIn is great at the time of their acts. 367 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: I also recentated the substack account. I'm going to try 368 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: to start writing more about this stuff and not just 369 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: sharing other people's stuff, but trying to focus in on 370 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: some of this stuff. So I'll post it on LinkedIn 371 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: and act. 372 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: Appreciate it's easy and trying to help folks, So keep 373 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: it up. Day already, appreciate you're doing us all a 374 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 2: great service. Thanks for your time today. Have a great weekend. 375 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: Brother six fifty seven