1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Happy one to you. Brian Towns. Welcoming back to the 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: fifty five krecy Morning Show hour energy policy expert Brigham 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Account from the Hudson Institute. You can find the Hudson 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,159 Speaker 1: Instute online at Hudson dot org. Going I recommend you 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: check that out regularly. Brigham Account, Welcome back, my friend. 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: I appreciate what you do. Charged Conversations is Brigham's podcast, 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: and I recommend you check out his podcast wherever you 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Welcome back, Brigham live from Las Vegas. 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: Jos Drecker awarded you the Wake Up Early Award. Congratulations, 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: thank you well, Brian. 11 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: It's great to be back on the show. We did 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: just put out a Charge Conversations about oil moving through 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: the Straits of Horror moves coming out this week, but 14 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: thank you. I decided very wisely when I got in 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: yesterday to stay on East Coast time. Yeah. Good for 16 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: thirty out here. 17 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: It's dark, yeah, I imagine it is. And I'm surprised 18 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: you're not at the roulette wheel or the blackjack table. 19 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: They're twenty four to seven. You never know what time 20 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: it is in Vegas when you're in a casino, Brigham Account, 21 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: you know I was up on this. Yes, people are 22 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: angry about the price of gasoline going up. Locally. It's 23 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: gone up about I don't know, maybe a buck or 24 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: maybe even more, depending on where you are, within the 25 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: last several days. We're gonna talk about why they jumped overnight. 26 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: But I'm getting a kick out of it because everybody's 27 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: screaming about it. This is Donald Trump's fault. Donald Trump's fault. 28 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: Of course, when you engage in war, this does have 29 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: an impact on supply chain. Of course, when you shut 30 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: down the straight of hormones where eighty percent of the 31 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: world's oil flows through, you're going to have a spike. 32 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: Now you'll explain why it spikes immediately, but it cracks 33 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: me up. High price of gas Isn't that something Barack 34 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: Obama wanted and said we would have to deal with 35 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: because we're gonna chase our chails trying to limit carbon dioxide. 36 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: So if he does it through legislation, edicts, and mandates, 37 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: the price goes up, and it's a good thing. But 38 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: when it happens to happen as a consequence of sort 39 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: of naturally occurring events like supply chain disruptions, it's terrible 40 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: and it's awful and we all want our cheap gas back. 41 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you're you're hitting it out on the head something. Yeah. 42 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: I don't think we've talked about recently, but you're absolutely right. 43 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: Back during the Obama days, right, it was we have 44 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: to kick our addiction to oil. We have to get 45 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: off of it. 46 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: Everybody needs to it was over the beginning days, yes, 47 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: the good days. Everybody needs an ev everybody needs to 48 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: turn their lights off, everybody needs to use less energy. 49 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: And how do you do that, Well, you text the 50 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: snot out of it more exsive artificially, yeah. 51 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: Yes, Or you make policies that you know it's picking 52 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: winners and losers. You make something really expensive, you subsidize 53 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: the snot out of something else to make it look 54 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 2: like it's actually cheaper. And that's exactly what was going 55 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: on back. 56 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: Then, exactly. I always like to just keep reminding people 57 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: of that it's a self inflicted wound when you're trying 58 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: to chase carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. And you 59 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: may call it a self inflicted wind when you engage 60 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: in war, but this is a normally happening occurrence. Now 61 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what it's almost seven thirty five, So 62 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: I wanna pause. You're gonna explain why gas prices jumped 63 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: overnight because I know they were sitting on stockpiles of 64 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: oil and refined gasoline. So how is it that the 65 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: price of that went up immediately when they acquired it, 66 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: when the price was a lot cheaper. More with Brighamcowan 67 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: from the Hudson Institute right after I mentioned Cross Country Mortgage, 68 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: which is Sussette loads the camp's place and she is 69 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: licensed off from talk station seven forty fifty five krs 70 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: Detoxation from the Hudson Institute online at Hudson dot org. 71 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: Bring him Acount at the Colony fifty five kr SE 72 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: Morning Show Energy Policy Expert, Energy policy Expert. He is 73 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: talking about the price of oil and why how is 74 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: it that it just immediately goes up? How the price 75 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: is store? It started going up on Saturday when we 76 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: started telling people in the world that we were dropping 77 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: bombs on the Iranians. I see futures up just under 78 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: eighty six dollars right now for at least some kind 79 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: of crude. I just typed in, So it's it's trending upward, Brigham, 80 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: And that does make some sense given the current instability, 81 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: the straight of horror moves issues, which we can elaborate 82 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: on a little bit. But why overnight, Brigham, Why is it? 83 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, first of all, fear moves the market first. 84 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: Prices rise on risk and uncertainty, not just confirmed shortages. 85 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: And that's kind of what we've seen number one, number two, 86 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: even though the United States doesn't really get much oil. Frankly, 87 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: it's negligible from the Middle East. If this were nineteen 88 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: seventy three again or two thousand again, you'd be paying 89 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: four fifty five dollars already. 90 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: Well, that's when OPEK had a lock on global oil 91 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: supply and we all thought there was a finite amount 92 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: of oil. We were dealing with peak oil and oh 93 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: my god, we're all going to die. They cut this 94 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: Pigott off and I remember the the pictures of wines 95 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: around the corner with people waiting, and well remember the 96 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: even odd license plate numbers. You could go to a 97 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: gas station if your license plate was even on one 98 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: day and odd on the other. Yeah, those were difficult times. 99 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: And of course we had the stagflation of the seventies 100 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: that made that thing even worse. We don't have that 101 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: problem anymore because we engage in above the above, all 102 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: of the above, including drill baby drill strategy. Now, isn't 103 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: that true? Brigham? 104 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: That is one hundred percent true. And even though since 105 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: have responded quickly, and the reason for that is you're 106 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: preparing to buy your next unleaded gasoline, your next diesel, 107 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: so your prices at the pump actually reflect what you're 108 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: going to pay to replace what's already there, and that's 109 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: why they move pretty quickly. But right now gasoline prices 110 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: are about where they were in twenty twenty four. So, yeah, 111 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: are they high? Yes? Do I think they're going to 112 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: go back down within two to three weeks? I do. 113 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: If you look at all the major conflicts and crises, 114 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: and at Hudson we've taken a look at that. These 115 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 2: spikes are what they call transit. They don't last very long. 116 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: When Iran and Israel got into it, most recently, when 117 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: the Persian Gulf War from the nineteen nineties happened, all 118 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: of these things reside relatively quickly in the big scheme 119 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: of things. 120 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: Well, that's because they're not permanent Brigham Like statutes, policies, 121 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: and the impactmans to using gasoline that the administration, I 122 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: would argue, like Obama to fariously put in place in 123 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: the name of oh my god, we're all going an 124 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: eye global warming one hundred and fifty years down the road. 125 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: Those don't go away very easily. They stay in place, 126 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: and in other words, the price of gasoline will stay 127 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: up because it was intended to do just that. Straight 128 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: of Horror Moves is going to open up at some point, 129 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: presumably bring it, and then they'll go back down again 130 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: because the economic realities of supply will have changed absolutely. 131 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 2: I mean, it's uh what we'd like say, economics one 132 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: oh one, supply and demand. You have too much supply, 133 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: price goes down. You have too much demand, price goes up. 134 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: And we're already seeing some things. So Saudi Arabia has 135 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: a pipeline, it's actually two pipelines. They're massive. They can 136 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: move up to six million barrels a day. Right now 137 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: it's doing a little under two. They're getting that thing 138 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: back up and running. So they're going to push six 139 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,679 Speaker 2: million out of the twenty million that the Persian Gulf 140 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: pushes out every day over to the Red Sea to 141 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: bypass the straight at Horror Moves altogether. So that's going 142 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: to come online pretty quickly, I think within the next 143 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: five to seven days. Number one. Number two, the United 144 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: States has given a thirty day relief for countries to 145 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: purchase some stranded Russian oil on the market. Don't like it, 146 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: but needs to happen in the short term, so that 147 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: will reduce pricing. And then according to Admiral Connell of 148 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: my United States Navy, it's very proud of what they've 149 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: been doing out there. Tax Ballistic missile launches, drone launches 150 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: are down by ninety percent. We've now hit over thirty 151 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: of their Iranian naval vessels. They pretty much have no 152 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: functioning maybe at this point, including overnight, we destroyed a 153 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: drone tearing aircraft carrier, an American World War two carrier. 154 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: So I think this is going to resolve itself, and 155 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: this part of it is going to resolve itself. 156 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, they reduced the missile strike down like by ninety 157 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: and the drone strikes down any low eighty percent reduction, 158 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: So just a little bit left and we blow up 159 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: more of the manufacturing facilities and continue attack the mission 160 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: launching sites. The problem in the Strait of Horror moves 161 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: may solve itself. Simply because the Iranians have nothing to 162 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: do by way of blowing up ships going through it. 163 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: I also noted Brigham that some of the ships are 164 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: taking are just taking the risk and going through on 165 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: their own. 166 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, some are still going through. And it really comes 167 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: back to war risk insurance. You know you have insurance 168 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: on your car. Well, the ship has insurance, the cargo 169 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: has insurance. And whether or not you're willing to pay 170 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: a very high price to get that done, or some 171 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: ships are just going through even if they can't get 172 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: the right insurance. President Trump has announced the US will 173 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: also offer insurance and has suggested that perhaps the Navy 174 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: will get involved. Well, we'll see if that's necessary, and 175 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: we'll see how that moves. But there are hundreds of 176 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 2: ships tied up wanting to leave right now. And again, 177 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 2: that oil doesn't come to us. You know, the main 178 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: beneficiary of that oil are Asian nations, including some friends 179 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: like Japan and South But in large percentage that oil 180 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: Brian goes to China. 181 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: So well, you point it out before the oil is 182 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: a global market. Price of oil is established based upon 183 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: the quantity that's available in the world, not necessarily because 184 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: we don't have our own, but it's just a defined 185 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: sort of an economic fact that we have to deal with. 186 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 2: It is it is, and it's always been a global market, 187 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: and it's risk. And you know, whether you're for or 188 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: against what the current administration is doing, at the bottom 189 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: line is you've got a regime that has attacked ships 190 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: for forty seven years, has said they would close the golf, 191 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: which again you're not allowed to do. It's an international passageway. 192 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: So you know, dealing with this once and for all, 193 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: I think will lead to longer term stability. If that's 194 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: the goal, well. 195 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: I think that's an excell employee double down on. If 196 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 1: you hadn't an engaged militarily in trying to topple the Iranians, 197 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: then they are and were in a position at any 198 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: in time to shut down the Straight of Horror moves. 199 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: Because they have all the rockets and missiles there, it 200 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 1: can announce it to the world any ships going through, 201 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna blow them up. And that sounds like a 202 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: totally Iranian thing to do based upon their past history. 203 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: So maybe in the future they'll never be able to 204 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: do it again, and that'll bring about so much global stability. 205 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: The price of gas will go below fifty bucks a 206 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: barrel or something like that. Brigha mcaal, We've got a 207 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: lot more to talk about. At seven forty six, we'll 208 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: bring Brigham back and we'll ultimately we're gonna end up 209 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: talking about Ohio utilities owning nuke plants. This is gonna 210 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: be a good thing. I think Brigham will enlighten us 211 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: on his position on that. But if you're dealing with cracks, stains, 212 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: slippery spots, I'm talking about concrete moves. This war risk 213 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: insurance you mentioned, and I understand that you get a 214 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: policy of insurance, and of course actuaries determine what the 215 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: risk is and the premium is determined on it. But 216 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: when you got a war right there next to where 217 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: the insured vessels are going back and forth, insurance companies 218 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: act in their best interest and cancel it. Donald Trump 219 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: suggested maybe the United States would act as the insure 220 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: of last resort or something like that. I kind of 221 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: question whether Donald Trump has the ability to just immediately say, yeah, 222 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: we're going to shoulder the burden of ensuring your vessels 223 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: are going to get through. 224 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is that's a good point, and there is 225 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 2: a US Finance and Development Corp. I'm probably not getting 226 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 2: the name exactly right. That could possibly be the vehicle 227 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: for that. But you know, when I first heard about 228 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 2: war risk insurance, I thought, oh, this only happens during war. Well, 229 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: actually they carry war risk all the time. 230 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: You're there. 231 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: That's how long we've been dealing with this. And remember, 232 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 2: let's rewind the tape to nineteen eighty seven, nineteen eighty 233 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: eight Operation Ernest Will. We reflagged a bunch of foreign 234 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: tankers under US flags and escorted them with navy ships 235 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: through the straight of foreign news because I guess who 236 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: was threatening them, Brian your Audians. Yes, oh, how'd you know? 237 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: Cocking? Yeah, so's the country goes right there. I mean, 238 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: it is on top of the strait we're talking about. 239 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: It is, this is, this has been going on for 240 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: a very long time. And uh, you know, so to 241 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: your point, now what the good news is. But we're 242 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: not seeing are cargo is being canceled. The ships are there, 243 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: they're waiting, they're waiting to load, or they're already loaded 244 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 2: waiting and you know, the prevailing spots seem to be 245 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 2: that one to two weeks max on this that we'll 246 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: see they could be. 247 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: Wrong, little tea leaf reading. I like the optimism on 248 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: that one, though, but the direction everything is going, the 249 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: limitation of the number of missile strikes, and the uh well, 250 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: the evisceration of the Iranian military generally speaking, and the 251 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: destruction of their navy, all of it can lead to 252 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: a short duration of this shutdown. So all right, we 253 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: got that positive going for us, But you know, I 254 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: got to observe bring before we part company and bring 255 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: you back after the top of the internew to talk 256 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: about nuke power here in Ohio. All those ships are 257 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: still in the Gulf there, right, I mean there you 258 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: can see in parked. I've seen the maps. Those are 259 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: not outside of the reach of Iranian missiles either. Just 260 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: because the Strait of Horror moves is that really arrowed, 261 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: daringgerous spot that you have to creep through, it doesn't 262 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: mean they're without harm or potential for harm. 263 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're definitely within harm's reach and they're just sitting there. 264 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 2: So if iron had the capacity to strike them, I 265 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: guess as they would. And you're right, the strait it's 266 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 2: narrow by I don't know shipping terms, it's about twenty 267 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: one nautical miles it's about twenty four land miles wide, 268 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: but there are two transit quarters. They're only two miles 269 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: wide each, so you can pick them off there when 270 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: they're moving. But right now they're all sitting there at 271 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: anchor and nothing's happening. 272 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. I bring that up to point that out. It 273 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: could happen right now, not in the strait. So yeah, 274 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: thankfully it's not, which suggests your optimism I think is 275 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: well placed. Bring mccount will bring it back live from 276 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: Las Vegas, live at the Sphere. Metallica is opening for him. 277 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: He's bringing mccut from the Hudson ins too. We'll talk 278 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: nuke policy coming up out the top of the our news. 279 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: Don't go away. What's happening over there. 280 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: Cannot be ever allowed to have nuclear weapons. 281 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: SI fifty five krs DE talks station behind Thomas here 282 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: on a Friday, which I love my Friday, and I 283 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: love when we had Brigham accoun from the Hudson Instituto 284 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: and you can find one line at Hudson dot org 285 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: our energy policy expert. All right, we're walking through the 286 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: crazy reality of gasoline. Yes, the price goes up immediately 287 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: straight up. Our moves a problem which will probably be 288 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: ironed out in relatively short term, so you should expect 289 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: the gas to go back down, so sayth Brigham accown, 290 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: and I'm with him on the optimism Along those lines. 291 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: I'm also Brigha McCown. Finally we appear to have come 292 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: to a point in time where nuclear power will be embraced. 293 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: Thank you to artificial intelligence, love it or hated. The 294 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: huge demand and the building of all these AI facilities, 295 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: which seems to be the obvious wave of the future, 296 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: use up massive quantities of power, and oh my god, 297 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: is AI the solution to this ridiculous climate religion? Brigham McGown, 298 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: Are we finally solving the problem? 299 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's certainly exacerbated its downfall. And Brian, 300 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 2: you know even the Europeans. You're coming back to two 301 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: key principles. One, the world has never used less energy, 302 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: only more. Two I'm gonna add a third one two. 303 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: If there is an energy transition, it's to a new 304 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: power source that gives you more power, not less. 305 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: Right and reliable, reliable too, Brigham, don't forget that it's 306 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: gotta work. 307 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: Yes, it's got to be accessible, available, and affordable. The 308 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: key definition of energy security, which was the third point 309 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: I was going to make, which is, if you don't 310 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: have energy, it ruins your economy, it ruins your national security. 311 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: It is the magic that makes everything run. And people 312 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: are starting to realize that is finally figuring that out, 313 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: and I think AI has precipitated that a little more quickly. 314 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: You know, I got to be the first person, not 315 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: the first person to point it out. But I think 316 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: that's the nefarious reality behind this whole global warming thing. 317 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: I think it was intentionally designed to undersigned undermine our 318 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: consumptive economy. That was the purpose. It's not really that 319 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: we're exhaling ourselves into oblivion, and is that we just 320 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: consume too much here in America as with other developed 321 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: Western countries, so go right for the jugular cut off 322 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: their electricity supply, and their consumption necessarily goes down because 323 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: their economies collapse. 324 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: I certainly think there is a guilt complex in many 325 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 2: Western societies where people are guilty of what we've achieved. 326 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: And you know, why do you think everybody wants to 327 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: come to America or Europe? Because they want they want 328 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: a better life. They you know, our system ain't perfect, 329 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: but it's better than all the others. 330 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: Well, that's why I call it religion. You know, quite 331 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: often religion will cause people to feel guilty about filling 332 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: the blank in your world, whatever that happens to be. Yeah, well, 333 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: if you're out breathing, living, consuming, you need to feel 334 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: guilty about it all day long. I just it's truly. Truly, 335 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: Again I say nefarious. I just that's all I can conclude. 336 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:02,239 Speaker 1: You're intentionally harming yourself by engaging in uh in legislative activities, 337 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: regulatory activities that make us less secure and cause our 338 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: energy to cost more. That sounds like a recipe for 339 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: it is stupidity in action. But nonetheless, that's the road 340 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,959 Speaker 1: we went down. So pivoting back over to nuclear power. 341 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: First off, for all the people who are wed to 342 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: the religion and still think that carbon dioxide's a bad thing, 343 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: they don't excel expel carbon dioxide, brig them. Well, there's 344 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: a problem solved right there. 345 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: They don't. They don't do any of that. And people say, well, wait, 346 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 2: nuclear waste. But we've talked about this, I think before. 347 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 2: Is that if you gathered up all the nuclear waste 348 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: in the country, it'd fit on a football field. It 349 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: is not. It is not as big as one thinks. 350 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: Does it last very long time? Yes, which is why 351 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: we need to build building advanced generation reactors that use less, 352 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: that create less byproducts. Oh and by the way, it 353 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,479 Speaker 2: will be recyclable, so folks that are into that, we 354 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 2: won't have the waste that we had, say from the 355 00:17:58,760 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties or seven. 356 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: Well, with small modular reactors, I understand the quantity of 357 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: waste after it's gone, after it's been used up over 358 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: its useful life, which is really a long time twenty 359 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: plus years or even longer for SMR. So by the 360 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: time you let a couple of decades, three decades, even 361 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: four decades pass and it becomes waste, there's not that 362 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: much of it, even less so than that than the 363 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: reactors that we used to use. 364 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's very little, and it is amazing, and 365 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 2: you know, it's technology that is finally coming full circle. 366 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 2: Civilian nuclear actors and again I hate but this is 367 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: a problem with Iran Civilian nuclear actors require three to 368 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: five we'll say, even ten percent enriched uranium. So when 369 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 2: you talk to the roundings, you're like, hey, hey, guys, 370 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 2: why are you doing this? I we just want clear 371 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: a few well, why are you enriching it to sixty percent? 372 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 2: I don't know, why are you doing it one hundred 373 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 2: feet underground? I don't know. What we need here in 374 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: the US is three to five, maybe ten if you're 375 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: using some medical stuff percent enrichment. It's not weapons grade 376 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 2: stuff out there all. 377 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: Right, Before we get to the regulatory challenges that one 378 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: faces if they choose to build a reactor or otherwise 379 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: embrace this technology, do we have sufficient quantities of uranium 380 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: at our disposal? I mean, there was all that concern 381 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: some years ago that we sold our uranium. I basically 382 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: sold our uranium rights off to the Russians, And I'm 383 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: just kind of wondering where we are in terms of 384 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: uranium supply. 385 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 2: We're spinning back up, but we're certainly behind the eight ball. 386 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: We were the world's largest producer of uranium or not. Now. 387 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 2: After the Soviet Union fell, we bought up all of 388 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 2: their leftover stuff, including idly enriched eighty ninety percent for 389 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 2: I E. Bombs, and we down blended it, and we 390 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 2: had decades of fuel, and we let our domestic industry 391 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: atrophy and basically go away. And so now we are 392 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 2: needing to rebuild Canada, we can ever sort that deal out. 393 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: Canada has uranium we can get, We can produce uranium. 394 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 2: We used to make it here in Paducah and Pike, Paduca, 395 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: Kentucky and Pike in Ohio. That was the world EPA 396 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 2: center for enriching uranium. And we're starting to spend that 397 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: back up literally with new generation centrifuge enrichment machines, which 398 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: is the way to do it now. 399 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: Well, not in my backyard is a refrain from folks 400 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: that you know, are maybe facing a new nuclear power 401 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: facility being built in their neighborhood or general area. But 402 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: in terms of going after the uranium itself, can that 403 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: be done safely? I imagine a lot of people might 404 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: have some concern about just mining this stuff close to 405 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: where they live. 406 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 2: Well, like rare earth minerals mining it. It's in such 407 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 2: rare concentrations, there's some radioactivity and all the earth around us, 408 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 2: right and you go out and look around you. It's 409 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 2: the processing of it and it requires vast amounts to 410 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: shift out all the impurities to actually make it you know, 411 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: high more highly enriched. And so that's that's totally safe 412 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 2: process and I wouldn't be concerned about that. I think 413 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: the question is do you want to live next to 414 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 2: a nuclear power plan? And I think a lot of 415 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: supporters of nuclear power like it. But the NIMBI thing 416 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 2: is real. 417 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: It is. But see, I'll go back to and again 418 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: our listeners are going to I know where he's going 419 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: on this one. You know the idea that we've been 420 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: using these small reactors in our military ships since the 421 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 1: late nineteen fifties without incident. Hell, our sailors and our 422 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: navy work literally right next to these things. I've never 423 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: heard anybody complain about, you know, glowing in the dark 424 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: after working on them. And there they are. They fit 425 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: inside of a ship. So what is the footprint with 426 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: that concept in mind, what's the size? What's the footprint 427 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: of a small modular reactor? How much space it takes 428 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: because you don't need one of those giant cooling tower things. 429 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: Are multiples of those. They're not nearly as big as 430 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: the old schools, say three mile island type reactors that 431 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: they build at one time. 432 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: They're not. They are a couple eighteen wheeler, you know, trailers, 433 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: fifty fifty three foot trailers is sort of the size 434 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: we're talking about. But you know, we also need to 435 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 2: keep constructing large nuclear reactors because the SMRs are great, 436 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: but they are they produce less power obviously, although you 437 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: can hook them up in parallel. 438 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I was thinking, you know, if the artificial 439 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: intelligence facilities are required now to generate their own power, 440 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: that seems to be the most logical direction to go, 441 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: unless you're next to maybe hydro power or something else 442 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: that can provide twenty four to seven power. So maybe 443 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: they'll have enough to give the neighborhood its own source 444 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: of electricity. I mean, if they've met their own needs 445 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: and they're generating more power than they need, there you go, 446 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: We've got access to more and that sounds like a 447 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: good thing. 448 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: You know, it is a good thing. And unfortunately, again 449 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: because of prior administrations prematurely retiring coal fired and other 450 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: fossil fuel power plants, we're in a bit of a 451 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 2: crunch right now. We have a lot that is being projected. 452 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: I think ten years from now we're going to be great, 453 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: but right now we don't have enough power, and many 454 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 2: utilities are telling their commercial customers AI data centers, do 455 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: you best get your own power behind the meter? We're 456 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 2: not going to be able to do it right now, 457 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 2: and that's a huge problem, and it's a direct result 458 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: of poor policy by previous administrations. 459 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: Well, that allows us to stumble onto the next one, 460 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: the Ohio proposal about utilities owning nuclear generation. I think 461 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: maybe we've run into another regulatory challenge, the debate centering 462 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: on whether electric utilities that deliver power should also be 463 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: allowed to own their own power plants. That sounds me 464 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: like somebody had a regulation and that says they can't. 465 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: We'll let bring them explain that one to us when 466 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: we get back. It's eight sixteen IF fifty five KRCD 467 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: talk station fifty five KRC the talk station A twenty 468 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: fIF you do have kcdtalk station Brian Timins with Brigha McCown. 469 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: He's calling in from Las Vegas, Nevada. We're talking energy policy. 470 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: Hudson Dot orgers where you find the Hudson Institute, Briga McCown. 471 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: The traditional utility model, the power companies generated the power, 472 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: coal plant, gas plant, nukes, whatever, and then they delivered 473 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: it and that's what we paid for. Why did we 474 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: restructure that model and how did it not inure to 475 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: our benefit? In the nineteen nineties and where do we 476 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 1: need to go today, Brigha McCown. 477 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Ohio separated electric generation from delivery in nineteen ninety 478 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 2: nine when it to restructure the power sector under a 479 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 2: Senate bill, and since then, you know, electric power systems 480 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 2: have two distinct roles. First, you have generation and these 481 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: companies build and just operate power plants. They take on 482 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 2: the costs. The revenue comes from selling that electricity wholesale 483 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: onto the markets. The second traditional utility company we think 484 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: of it is transmission and distribution, and the these companies 485 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: own the poles, the wires, the substations, and they're regulated 486 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: by the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio. And so back 487 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 2: in ninety nine they separated these two mainly so that 488 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 2: the public wasn't going to be on the hook for 489 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 2: developing power plants. And nuclear power plants operate under very 490 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 2: different different economic models. They're very expensive to build, and 491 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: I think that's the current push to smush everything back 492 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: together against I'll pause there, Brent. 493 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: Expensive to build? Are they really truly expensive to build? 494 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: Or do we make that expensive to build? Because first off, again, 495 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: small modular reactors are like legos, one size fits all. 496 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: Once you have a design model that works. You just 497 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: pull up that trailer you were talking about. Plug it 498 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: in and I know I'm boiling it down to simplicity, 499 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: but plug it in and it's done. The reactors that 500 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: they have been building since they started building, and what 501 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: the exception of the military are all these giant one 502 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: off one size does not fit all. So it takes 503 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: a lot of design development and regulatory approval, blah blah blah. 504 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: It takes forever to even get one started. I mean 505 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: to lay the first brick in the ground on one. 506 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: So we're not there anymore. So it does it really 507 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 1: need to be expensive going down this road? 508 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 2: Well, to really do this and to transition us over 509 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: to nuclear power, we need both. We need big reactors 510 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 2: and we need smaller reactors. The key is that we 511 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 2: make them exactly the same. And of the big reactors 512 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: around the country, no two of them are alike, No 513 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 2: two of them are the same. This is the the 514 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 2: idiocy Franklin of the industry in the past is guys, 515 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 2: So you wonder why every single one has to be 516 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: licensed from scratched. Stop changing things mass produce a car, 517 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: you know, it's not that hard. Yeah, So that so 518 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 2: there's a Westinghouse design that is, and it's been the 519 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 2: government's been reluctant, I think the industry and reluctant to 520 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 2: just say, okay, we're going to build one type. Well, okay, fine, 521 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 2: licensed three or four and small, medium, large, micro, whatever, 522 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 2: and that's what we get. That would cut the cost 523 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,719 Speaker 2: down significantly, because a large nuclear actor costs ten to 524 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: twenty billion dollars to construct, but once if you built 525 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 2: it could operate for sixty or seventy years with these 526 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 2: very low fuel costs. So the challenge has been financing 527 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: that initial construction. And if Ohio puts it all back 528 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 2: together again, the concern is the rate payers i e. 529 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 2: You and I and everyone else listening. We're going to 530 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: be asked to finance this project as opposed to the 531 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: utility company going out into the private market and finding financing. 532 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: Is that financing impossible to find? If we go back 533 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: maybe to the old way, will there will there be 534 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: a market for financing. 535 00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 2: This, Well it's not, but you know private financing, and 536 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 2: there is public financing available. Department of Energy has financing 537 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: available to the government. But you know when institutional lenders 538 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: lend money, they're very particular. There's a lot of oversight, 539 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: more oversight, frankly than the Public Services Commission, who's like, oh, 540 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 2: you need more money, it costs more, Okay, I'll pass 541 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 2: another rate hike through. So there is some concern that 542 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: we're going to get stuck with the end with people 543 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 2: being inefficient and this thing costing too much, which is 544 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 2: what happened to the last reactor we just brought online down. 545 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: In Georgia, Briga McCowan Hudson at dot org. I appreciate 546 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: your willingness to come in the morning show, even when 547 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: you're out of town. I know you've got stuff to 548 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: get to right away, so I'm going to let you 549 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: go and appreciate the time. Like I said, I hope 550 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: you have a wonderful weekend. Safe travels back Brig, and 551 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: we'll get you back on asap. Thanks, Brian, appreciate it, 552 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: My pleasure. Take twenty five