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Speaker 1: Kayoway and Hi heard radio stations guaranteed Human.

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Speaker 2: Six minutes after good morning, Welcome, I'm John KELDERA Michael

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Speaker 2: Brown is out of town. I think that's just code

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Speaker 2: for again in rehab, but we'll we'll find out and

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Speaker 2: give me a call three h three seven eighty five

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Speaker 2: eighty five.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to get into it right away.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever had this experience where you're you look

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Speaker 2: at one thing.

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Speaker 3: Online and then the ads for.

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Speaker 2: That just appear everywhere, Or you're talking about something, You're

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Speaker 2: actually just talking about a product or something, and then

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden online you get ads for this.

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Speaker 3: A buddy of mine swears that he was talking about

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Speaker 3: a swing.

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Speaker 2: They walked by some some fancy, you know, adult porch swing,

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Speaker 2: and he said, oh, yeah, that's a blankety blank swing,

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Speaker 2: and then he started getting ads for it. He has

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Speaker 2: no interest in it, he didn't want one. He mentioned

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Speaker 2: it to his wife, and all of a sudden it

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Speaker 2: comes in. Well, I've always found it interesting that old

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Speaker 2: geezers like me, we kind of like our privacy. We

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Speaker 2: don't want people knowing what we're doing. Young people don't

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Speaker 2: seem to care, And I wonder how much of our

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Speaker 2: privacy we just voluntarily give out there when we use

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Speaker 2: our phones or our email or talk in front.

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Speaker 3: Of a speaker. I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: So a friend of mine, Naomi Brockwell, has made a

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Speaker 2: profession of teaching guys like me what is really going

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Speaker 2: on with that. She's with Ludlow Institute. She has her

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Speaker 2: own media channel. You really need to check it out.

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Speaker 2: It's great. It's NBTV dot media. Naomi, welcome. I really

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Speaker 2: appreciate you spending some time with me.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much for inviting me. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's start off. How as you know, I've

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Speaker 2: been trying to steal you from your boyfriend now for

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Speaker 2: a long time, and I'm having a hard time doing

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Speaker 2: it because every time I try to stalk you online

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Speaker 2: I don't find that much on you because you take

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Speaker 2: some simple precautions that keep people from seeing who you

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Speaker 2: are or the companies.

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Speaker 3: How much how much of our personal.

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Speaker 2: Data do we give out when we just go online

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Speaker 2: or go on Google or use Gmail or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: How much how much do we lose?

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Speaker 4: We lose everything? We are voluntarily handing over every intimate

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Speaker 4: piece of our lives, every scroll, everything we read, everything

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Speaker 4: we watch everything, we like, the people in our social graphs,

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Speaker 4: the products we're interested in, our opinions very evident. When

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Speaker 4: you start trucking scrolling and web searches and everything. We're

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Speaker 4: handing all of this data to third parties and governments

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Speaker 4: can access it all without a warrant. And this is

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Speaker 4: something that most people don't realize. So I think that definitely,

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Speaker 4: I'm seeing a way right now where people are starting

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Speaker 4: to wake up to that, and they're starting to realize that.

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Speaker 3: This is terrifying.

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Speaker 2: All right, So I write an email to somebody I

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Speaker 2: know after the Patriot Act that gets split off and

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Speaker 2: NSA A can see it. But you're telling me private

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Speaker 2: companies are scraping all of this from us. Every time

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Speaker 2: I look at something online or I google a subject,

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Speaker 2: or I buy something, or I stream a rerun of

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Speaker 2: Gilligan's Island, people know about it.

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Speaker 4: The countless entities know about it, control over who gets

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Speaker 4: access to all of that data. And the more companies

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Speaker 4: know about you, the easier you are to manipulate. And

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Speaker 4: it's not just manipulation, so oh, we'll buy this product.

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Speaker 4: It's your worldview, you know, get you to hate certain people,

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Speaker 4: show your content, that gets you to think in a

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Speaker 4: certain way, vote in a certain way. And it turns

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Speaker 4: out the governments are one of the largest clients of

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Speaker 4: data brokers, so they don't really need to have their

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Speaker 4: own surveillance infrastructure because we're handing out all of this

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Speaker 4: information for free. So they largely get it from the companies.

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Speaker 4: They buy data from data brokers. They subpoena information from

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Speaker 4: our email providers, from telecommunications agencies, they have direct connection

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Speaker 4: with the servers or some of the major you know

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Speaker 4: companies out there. Is Voden revealed back in twenty thirteen

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Speaker 4: with the prison program. All of this stuff that we

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Speaker 4: think we're doing just with our computer or just without television,

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Speaker 4: or just with our smart speaker, and it remains private.

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Speaker 4: It's not at all. It ends up in the hands

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Speaker 4: of countless third parties who can use that information for

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Speaker 4: whatever they want.

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Speaker 2: Draw that out for me so I can visualize it

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Speaker 2: a little bit. So I go online, I write people

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Speaker 2: through my Gmail account, and I look at things on

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Speaker 2: Amazon and when did I ever give any of these

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Speaker 2: people or companies permission to share my data.

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Speaker 4: When you signed up? So the good news is that

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Speaker 4: they are better email providers out there. You can use

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Speaker 4: that kind of even access your emails, you know, things

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Speaker 4: like Proton and Tuotor and start mail. But Gmail is

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Speaker 4: an advertising company, so part of their core business model

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Speaker 4: is going to be analyzing and scanning everything you do

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Speaker 4: through their services so that they can learn more about

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Speaker 4: you and they can feed you better targeted ads. And

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Speaker 4: you signed up for that implicitly. You've probably got a

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Speaker 4: free Gmail account like twenty years ago, and no one

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Speaker 4: really thought of it back then. No one really knew

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Speaker 4: that Google was this ad company. We kind of thought

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Speaker 4: it was I don't know, search engine, it's an email provider.

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Speaker 4: Is Google it some kind of tech conglomerate, But now

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Speaker 4: we all realize, well, it's that company. That's their primary

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Speaker 4: business model, and so all the free services that they

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Speaker 4: offer in pursuit of building better and more accurate profiles

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Speaker 4: about people who use their products so that they can

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Speaker 4: serve bet ads and that's kind of the value proposition.

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Speaker 2: So that really is no free launch, but they give

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Speaker 2: us free stuff. I mean, think about all the stuff

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Speaker 2: we get for free online. I can email anybody for free,

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Speaker 2: I can search things for free. I can do Facebook

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Speaker 2: for free and keep up with my friends and interests.

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Speaker 3: For free.

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Speaker 2: The free is that they get all that data and

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Speaker 2: they sell that data. That's the part that I don't

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Speaker 2: think people get is that they scrape it all and

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Speaker 2: they sell it to whom.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they sell it to governments. They sell it to

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Speaker 4: governments around the world. So you know, if you're forming

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Speaker 4: an opposition party and you're in a country that is

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Speaker 4: somewhat hostile to dissidents or whizzle blowers or any of that,

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Speaker 4: you probably handed over far too much information about yourself

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Speaker 4: and this hostile government could very easily target you and

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Speaker 4: shut down your efforts to you know, fight for freedom

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Speaker 4: or whatever you want. This is a global phenomenon. This

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Speaker 4: is all over the world that this is happening, and

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Speaker 4: there are no boundaries when it comes to their data sharing.

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Speaker 4: It's really is being shared by whoever wants to pay

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Speaker 4: for it globally, So it's you know, it could be

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Speaker 4: bought by hackers, they could be bought by cartels, that

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Speaker 4: can be bought by anyone who might want to target

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Speaker 4: you for a certain reason. And it's just starting to

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Speaker 4: wake up to this and come to terms with it.

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Speaker 4: But I think that it's you know, it's the good

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Speaker 4: time to remind people that they are empowered. They don't

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Speaker 4: have to use free email providers, they don't have to

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Speaker 4: use services that share their data. There are so many

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Speaker 4: amazing privacy tools out there that you could use a

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Speaker 4: better browser instead of Google Chrome and protect your information

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Speaker 4: from Google go to.

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Speaker 2: Most people use let's start off with that Google Chrome.

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Speaker 2: Everybody uses Google Chrome. I use Safari because I use Apple.

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Speaker 2: Am I sharing my data whenever I use Google Chrome?

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Speaker 4: Yes, you are sharing your data with Google every time

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Speaker 4: you use Google Chrome. It's one of the most invasive

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Speaker 4: browsers for privacy. It is really horrendous when it comes

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Speaker 4: to respecting boundaries. So I would recommend switching to a

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Speaker 4: different browser. And there's a great I mean, there's a

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Speaker 4: great website out there that compares a lot of different

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Speaker 4: browsers called privacy tests dot org. My favorite browser is

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Speaker 4: Brave because out of the box that has, you know,

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Speaker 4: some of the best privacy default spaces in But there

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Speaker 4: are some really great products out there. You don't need

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Speaker 4: to use Chrome. You could easily switch today. That's a

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Speaker 4: great thing, right now.

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Speaker 3: Don't keep in mind, you know you are on AM

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Speaker 3: radio here.

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Speaker 2: Most of us still have twelve flashing on our VHS machines.

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Speaker 2: So when you say we've got these other choices, let's

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Speaker 2: bring it up. You say, Brave b R a ve

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Speaker 2: e Brave dot com And thanks to you, I did

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Speaker 2: load that onto my machine and it works just like Chrome.

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Speaker 2: It works just as well as Chrome. But they don't

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Speaker 2: share my ideas.

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Speaker 4: You sometimes sometimes, but I'll take this. Yeah, No, I

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Speaker 4: love I love Brave. I think they're a great company

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Speaker 4: and they're very quiet, privacy focused. They even have private

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Speaker 4: AI built in. Well, a lot of the AI you

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Speaker 4: see out there is kind of a privacy nightmare, and

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Speaker 4: they're ingesting your medical history and and you know, they

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Speaker 4: have access to all of that and they become people

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Speaker 4: psychologists and psychiatrists and they get so much sense of information.

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Speaker 4: But you can choose more private lllns like chatbots, and

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Speaker 4: Brave offers one directly in the browser called LEO ed

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Speaker 4: large language model like chat GPT. You know exactly these

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Speaker 4: chatbots that we have, you know, colaw Perplexity, you know

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Speaker 4: chat GPT. So Brave has one called LEO. It's built

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Speaker 4: directly into the browser and they have a no longing policy,

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Speaker 4: so they're not collecting your data. They're using it gets

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Speaker 4: pretty technical, but basically they're stripping your IP and if

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Speaker 4: you know what that means, that basically is something that

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Speaker 4: will help make you more private when you use this service.

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Speaker 4: And so they do a really great job at just

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Speaker 4: kind of protecting that information instead of keeping a treasure

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Speaker 4: trope of all your most innermost darkest secrets right there

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Speaker 4: for any hacker or law enforcement to subpoena or company

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Speaker 4: to get access to or rogue employee. You know, we

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Speaker 4: just don't need to be creating that liability for ourselves.

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Speaker 2: So let me ask you if this part is true

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Speaker 2: that I've heard people complain that they've talked about something

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Speaker 2: in front of their phone and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: they start seeing ads for whatever it is they were

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Speaker 2: talking about. Is that true or is that just paranoia?

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Speaker 4: No, that's true. Think about the number of apps that

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Speaker 4: you've given access to your microphone. Now, you have given

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Speaker 4: them permission to use your microphone.

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Speaker 5: You explicitly told them, yes, you can use your.

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Speaker 4: Microphone, so you know, if they're not using it, like

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Speaker 4: you're hoping that.

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Speaker 2: They're not, just always do you don't remember giving them permission?

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Speaker 3: When did I give them permission?

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Speaker 4: When every time you install an app. It tells you

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Speaker 4: what kind of access the app needs here, I need

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Speaker 4: access to your compacts, I need access to your Wi

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Speaker 4: Fi things like that, And as soon as you click okay,

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Speaker 4: you are enabling that app to access all of those things.

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Speaker 4: You know, these random apps we install, we've given access

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Speaker 4: to our photos. We don't know which rogue employees at

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Speaker 4: this company is now looking at our photos. But yes,

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Speaker 4: the microphone thing is an issue. There was even a leak.

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Speaker 4: There was this It's funny when you look at the

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Speaker 4: advertising industry, sometimes they need a quiet out loud. And

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Speaker 4: there was this podcast that came out where this this

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Speaker 4: company was bragging about, you know, using your phone and

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Speaker 4: the microphone to listen to conversations and then tagging different

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Speaker 4: keywords and kind of selling that data so that you

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Speaker 4: could be targeted for certain ads. And when this came out,

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Speaker 4: the privacy community kind of went crazy. They were like,

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Speaker 4: oh my goodness, this company is just admitting all of this.

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Speaker 4: But yes, this stuff that's happened, but there are other

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Speaker 4: stuff that happens too. You know, it's not just your microphone.

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Speaker 4: You might have said something to a friend and then

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Speaker 4: that friend went and looked at something on Google you

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Speaker 4: know that product that you were talking about. Now your

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Speaker 4: phones know that you were in proximity with each other

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Speaker 4: for like an hour. They know you were hanging out.

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Speaker 6: And so.

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Speaker 4: There are companies that do a tremendous job at figuring out, Okay,

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Speaker 4: so and so was hanging out with John. You know,

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Speaker 4: this person goes to search for this thing immediately after

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Speaker 4: their meeting. There's a good chance that John and him

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Speaker 4: talked about this thing. So there are lots of inferences

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Speaker 4: that companies make based on this huge amount of dazza

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Speaker 4: in telemetry that they're constantly collecting.

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Speaker 3: I have heard tell me if this is true.

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Speaker 2: When I go to the supermarket out here it's called

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Speaker 2: King Supers, and that they know what I'm looking at

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Speaker 2: because they are looking where I am in their store,

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Speaker 2: and that when I I mean I get that I

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Speaker 2: buy things there, I show them the little code I

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Speaker 2: have so that I can get their discounts, and then

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Speaker 2: they send me coupons for the stuff I want. Personally,

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Speaker 2: I think this is pretty cool, because hey, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get that hand tomato.

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Speaker 3: And now I've got a thing. But they actually know

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Speaker 3: where I am in the store.

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Speaker 4: They do so stores largely I mean, they use a

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Speaker 4: mix of technologies, but one of the key components is

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Speaker 4: called BLE Bluetooth low energy. And you know how you

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Speaker 4: have Bluetooth on your phone and you keep it turned

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Speaker 4: on all the time and you've forgotten about it. Well,

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Speaker 4: stores are actually picking up those signals and they can

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Speaker 4: tell right down to the nearest foot where you are

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Speaker 4: at a store, so they know how me personally exactly.

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Speaker 4: So they there're a single session. You know, you can

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Speaker 4: track someone as they move about the store and then

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Speaker 4: as you go to check out and add that rewards card.

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Speaker 4: Now they've identified exactly who you are because you hand

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Speaker 4: it over that rewards card and you've identified yourself. And

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Speaker 4: so you know, some devices, when you do repeat visits

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Speaker 4: the stores, they'll be able to track your visits, you know,

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Speaker 4: across time. That if you're adding a rewards card, then

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Speaker 4: you're allowing them to track you across time anyway, by

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Speaker 4: identifying yourself for every visit. There's also an interesting thing

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Speaker 4: because you say that it's good, Yeah, that might be

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Speaker 4: good now, but you'll see the news started to talk

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Speaker 4: about the dynamic pricing the stores are starting to implement.

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Speaker 4: So now when you go to the store, you might

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Speaker 4: find that the store when you go to bring it

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Speaker 4: out at the cash red just that maybe it gives

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Speaker 4: you a different price to the person next to you

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Speaker 4: because they know your shopping habits. They know that you

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Speaker 4: traveled first class internationally every other week, and they know

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Speaker 4: that you own a Rose roy so whatever it is,

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Speaker 4: and so they might think, okay, well I'll charge you

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Speaker 4: more for this product. And so they're able to really

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Speaker 4: granually look at people's purchasing habits and then dynamically adjust

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Speaker 4: flights accordingly. And we've seen this on the internet for

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Speaker 4: a long time now, so flights are kind of notorious.

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Speaker 4: When you purchase them, they will often give you different

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Speaker 4: prices depending on who you are. But we might start

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Speaker 4: to see these and physical locations as well.

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Speaker 2: That's terrifying enough, Naomi, that is just terrifying enough. But

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Speaker 2: you're also telling me that our government just buyes this data.

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Speaker 2: And it is I think you know, growing up in

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Speaker 2: the shadow of your Watergate and you know the distrust

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Speaker 2: of government.

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Speaker 3: If you went back after.

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Speaker 2: During the water gain and said, you know what, Government's

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Speaker 2: going to put a tracker on each and every one

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Speaker 2: of you, and therefore we'll know where you've been.

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Speaker 3: How long you've been and.

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Speaker 2: In fact, they will bug every phone conversation you have,

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Speaker 2: and every letter you write will go through them. You know,

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Speaker 2: people would would would have rioted and it wouldn't have happened.

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Speaker 2: But instead of government doing it, we do it ourselves

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Speaker 2: because it all makes our lives easier. We carry around

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Speaker 2: a phone that tracks us. All of our texts, our

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Speaker 2: phone calls, our emails go through these servers that are shared,

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Speaker 2: and everything we buy, everything we do is now scraped

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Speaker 2: for data. And the government just buys it. It's not

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Speaker 2: like they had to go and tap our phone lines.

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Speaker 2: We just gave it all up to them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because you know, we have these rules

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Speaker 4: in the government. You know, you're not meant to have

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Speaker 4: inwardly folks surveillance system. It's got to be bad, right,

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Speaker 4: you don't want some tyrannical power coming into power and

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Speaker 4: subjugating their own people. So we've been very careful in

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Speaker 4: the United States to say, well, these huge surveillance mechanisms

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Speaker 4: we're setting up, they're not allowed to look inwardly at

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Speaker 4: American people. And you know, certain departments aren't allowed to

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Speaker 4: share data with other departments. Right, we can't set up

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Speaker 4: these silos and safety checks. What sends it up happening

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Speaker 4: is sure, this department can't give the data to share

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Speaker 4: it with another department, but they can give that data

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Speaker 4: to Lexus Nexus, and then the other departments can just

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Speaker 4: buy it from Lexus Nexus. So that's exactly what's happened.

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Speaker 4: We've completely circumvented the Fourth Amendment that's meant to say, well,

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Speaker 4: we are protected from unreasonable searches and seizures of our

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Speaker 4: private belongings. Government shouldn't be able to just rifle through

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Speaker 4: all of our things and find out information about us.

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Speaker 4: That's meant to be like a safeguard. And instead we've

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Speaker 4: just forgotten that in the digital age. And it's because

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Speaker 4: of something called the third party doctrine. And basically what

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Speaker 4: that says is the government's decided, if you give your

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Speaker 4: data to a third party, you have no reasonable expectation

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Speaker 4: of privacy and they're allowed to get that DANTA without

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Speaker 4: needing a warrant, warrant requirements.

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Speaker 2: I've gotta take a breather here, Can you stick with

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Speaker 2: us a little longer?

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Speaker 7: Sure thing?

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Speaker 2: Name with Brockwell is just a terrific woman. She does these.

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Speaker 2: You need to check out her site NBTV dot Media

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Speaker 2: also Ludlow Institute dot org. When we get back, I

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Speaker 2: want you to tell me what I can do to

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Speaker 2: stop some of this, all of it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what can I personally do.

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Speaker 2: You've talked to me about this before, and I've even

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Speaker 2: listened to you before.

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Speaker 3: So let's we'll come back on that. I'm John Caldera

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Speaker 3: in for the Big Man.

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Speaker 2: Keep it here. You're on Choa Radio. John Caldera in

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Speaker 2: for Michael Brown. Give me a call, three h three

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Speaker 2: seven to one, three eighty five eighty five. I care

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Speaker 2: about my privacy now. I think about you know, Amazon

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Speaker 2: or Netflix and what they must think I am because

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Speaker 2: I'm a single dad with a kid with Down syndrome,

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Speaker 2: and for the last oh my god, fifteen years, my

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Speaker 2: son has watched like the same five movies over and

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Speaker 2: over and over again, sometimes several times in the day.

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Speaker 2: So you know, they they look at my record or

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Speaker 2: my data and they go, well, this guy is obviously

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Speaker 2: mentally unbalanced. He loves Thomas the Tank Engine. He watches

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Speaker 2: that movie like twenty times a day, and then then

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Speaker 2: he's got to watch House of Cards or something. This

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Speaker 2: guy is schizophrenic. So I wonder what they make of me.

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Speaker 2: What bothers me is that they're we just give up

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Speaker 2: this data and we don't even know it. So my

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Speaker 2: friend Naomi Brockwell is with the Ludlow Institute. They do

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Speaker 2: great technical privacy, tech privacy stuff.

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Speaker 3: She does a bunch of videos.

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Speaker 2: They always tell me when people how people can watch

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Speaker 2: the videos you make and learn a lot more about

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Speaker 2: this stuff and how much how much of their private data?

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Speaker 2: How much of their private data do you scrape when

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Speaker 2: when they watch your video?

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Speaker 4: All of it we sell it all? No, we we

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Speaker 4: are not a data collecting organization. So we have over

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Speaker 4: seven hundred free videos online talking about all this stuff.

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Speaker 4: So if you just want to make your phone more private,

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Speaker 4: we have a whole series on that. If you want

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Speaker 4: to figure out what's the most private email provider, we

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Speaker 4: have a video on that. If you want to figure out,

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Speaker 4: you know, I have kids, how do I protect them best?

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Speaker 4: So I have you know, elderly parents, how do I

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Speaker 4: protect them? We have videos kind of catering to all

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Speaker 4: areas of this, and we have articles as well. So

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Speaker 4: Ludlowinstitute dot org has a link to all of that.

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Speaker 4: That's Ludlow Institute dot org and it's all free. So

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Speaker 4: we're a nonprofit that really just wants to help people

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Speaker 4: write a better future. We see us hurtling towards a

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Speaker 4: potentially dystopian future that is kind of this surveillance can

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Speaker 4: not become healthscape, and we realize it doesn't have to

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Speaker 4: be that way. You know, we could all just educate

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Speaker 4: people about this, realize, make them realize what's going on,

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Speaker 4: and encourage them to make better choices. We can absolutely

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Speaker 4: rewrite the future. We could head towards a better place

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Speaker 4: where the tech we use respects the individual instead of

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Speaker 4: exploits the individual. And so we're really just focused on

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Speaker 4: making sure that you guys all have.

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Speaker 5: The resources you need in order to make better choices

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Speaker 5: with the.

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Speaker 4: Stuff you do in your life and most of this

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Speaker 4: compensal awareness. People have no idea the stuff going on,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: And why would you You've got to You've got a

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Speaker 3: busy life.

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Speaker 2: But I look at China and their social scoring that

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Speaker 2: they do all automated, where they look at what you

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Speaker 2: do online, they follow you through facial recognition, and if

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Speaker 2: you're a good citizen, you get more perks. If you're

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Speaker 2: a bad citizen, well, your travel is limited. You might

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Speaker 2: not be able to use the currency as well, you

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Speaker 2: might not be able to shop in certain places. And

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Speaker 2: it's all automated. This is terrifying. And the technology they

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Speaker 2: use is no different than the technology we use.

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Speaker 3: And we have this, we have this belief that.

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Speaker 2: Our government, because it's good, will continue to be good

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Speaker 2: and we can trust it. I, for one, don't trust it.

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Speaker 3: I don't trust it by a long shot.

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Speaker 2: So let's dive into what I can do to to

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Speaker 2: keep people from seeing or keep my data being scraped.

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Speaker 2: One you said is stop using Google Chrome at Google

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Speaker 2: and Gmail are just terrible. You tell me, I didn't

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Speaker 2: know that. I have switched to Brave b r a

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Speaker 2: ve as a web browser. It works just like Chrome.

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Speaker 2: I've had no problems with it. I can put on

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Speaker 2: those little add ons and plugins and things just fine.

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Speaker 2: What else, like, what are the top three things.

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Speaker 3: I should do?

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Speaker 4: I think that the easiest thing is what you just mentioned.

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Speaker 5: The browser switch is so easy and no one will

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Speaker 5: notice the difference.

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Speaker 4: Well, actually that's not true. They'll notice the difference because

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Speaker 4: you stop getting YouTube ads when you switch to Grade,

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Speaker 4: which is great because bradblocks ads and so it's built

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Speaker 4: into this mechanism that people can't target you based on

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Speaker 4: your profile that's been sold all over the internet.

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Speaker 5: So browser is just a really quick and easy switch.

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Speaker 4: I would say. The next one is look into how

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Speaker 4: you message people. A lot of people use SMS.

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Speaker 5: SMS is a completely non private messaging system.

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Speaker 2: Again, for USESMS is basically just a text right.

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Speaker 4: It's exactly, It's just a text message on your phone

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Speaker 4: through your phone's built in text messaging app that generally

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Speaker 4: uses SMS. But you can use certain apps for messages instead.

438
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 4: I like Signal app. Again, it's just an app. You

439
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 4: download it, take thirty seconds, You add your phone number,

440
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 4: and it's all end to and encrypt it. You will

441
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 4: find like people are so surprised when I get them

442
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 4: to install Signal to see how many of their friends

443
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 4: are already on it. They think, well, I can't move

444
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 4: to this new messenger, I won't be able to talk

445
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 4: to anyone. That's just not true.

446
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 5: You're probably fine, you have hundreds of people already on there.

447
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: When I switched to Signal and I get Signal, it

448
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: asks can I have access to your contact lists?

449
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 3: Should I say yes?

450
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 4: You actually should so. The way Signal handles that is

451
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 4: they don't actually get your contact list.

452
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 5: What they do is this very technically conflict you know,

453
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 5: process where.

454
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,959
Speaker 4: They kind of scramble it all up and then they

455
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 4: send a scrambled version to their server match it to

456
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 4: see who's on signal. So they don't actually get the

457
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 4: phone numbers of all the people in your contact list,

458
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 4: and they don't keep a recor of even the scrambled version.

459
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 4: Can I make phone calls a super privacy?

460
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 7: Yeah?

461
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 4: You can do phone calls, you can do video calls,

462
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 4: you can send messages and photos. It's a wonderful app

463
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 4: and it takes you really two seconds to set up.

464
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 3: What about whatsapping?

465
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: I know lots of people who use WhatsApp and when

466
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: I talk to friends overseas, we talk on WhatsApp because

467
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: it's free, and so I really like what's app And

468
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 2: they say it's private? Is it? So?

469
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 4: WhatsApp is owned by Meta, which is an advertising company,

470
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 4: and they are collecting all kinds of things from your

471
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 4: social graph. They're collecting all the people in your contact

472
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 4: list and getting access to all of that information. They

473
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 4: are creating a detailed profile of who you call, who

474
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 4: you associate with on a daily basis. How long you

475
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 4: chat with them, what kinds of day they're building profiles

476
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 4: around that. I mean, there's no reason for Meta to

477
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 4: offer a free phone messaging app. It didn't help them

478
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 4: with their underlying business model, which is advertising. So it

479
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 4: was really just amount of information.

480
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.

481
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 4: I mean the Signal was started by the guy who

482
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 4: created WhatsApp, and he was so unhappy with the direction

483
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: it was going for privacy when it was, you know,

484
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 4: under Facebook, that he decided to leave and start the

485
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 4: Signal Foundation. And so that kind of gives you an

486
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 4: idea of how the two compare when it comes to privacy.

487
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 4: I don't personally use WhatsApp. WhatsApp is you know, it's

488
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 4: and encrypting the contents of your message. But when it

489
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: comes down to it, Facebook is just getting a matter.

490
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 5: It's just getting so much information from your.

491
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 4: Daily usage that honestly, if you care about privacy, I

492
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 4: really recommend you just try out something like Signal.

493
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: All right, So the.

494
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: Things you're telling me to do, one switch from Chrome

495
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: to Brave as a web browser, and when I do text,

496
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: start playing with and I like the way you put

497
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: this to me. Once you said, hey, you don't have

498
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: to you a massive switch right away. You don't have

499
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: to dump everything. Just start playing with things like Signal,

500
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: which is a privacy messaging app, and you can text,

501
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: and you can have phone calls and they're they're encrypted.

502
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: And you're right, I'm surprised how many people I know

503
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 2: are on Signal and I like that, what else can

504
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 2: we do?

505
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 4: So email? If you know, seventy five percent of people

506
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: are on Gmail, so the odds are that three and

507
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: four people listening to this right now are on Gmail.

508
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 4: You could switch to something more privacy preservation.

509
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: Kidding, this is AM talk radio. They're still on AOL.

510
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right that one quarter of people that's not

511
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 4: on Gmail, they're on AOL. They're listening to the show

512
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 4: right now, so you can still switch. You know, AOL

513
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 4: is not a privacy preserving platform either.

514
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 5: But Proton is one of the great tools out there.

515
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 4: And again it doesn't have to be overwhelming. You don't

516
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 4: have to, you know, just completely abandon this email you've

517
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,239
Speaker 4: probably had the decades. You can just set up new

518
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 4: account and just have a look, you know, play with you.

519
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 2: Just to be clear, it is Proton and that's Proton

520
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 2: p R O t O N dot me YEA dot

521
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: com but dot me, Well, you can get there.

522
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: At a bunch of different websites. They have not just email,

523
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 4: but they have encrypted calendars and VPNs and encrypted drives

524
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 4: and collaborative docs. They have wonderful things in their ecosystems.

525
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: So it's a really cool platform to start to play with.

526
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 4: It's really a Google competitor in that it's offering all

527
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 4: these different things the same way that Google Suite does.

528
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 4: So I have a play and when you're ready, you

529
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 4: can start migrating some of your contacts over, you know,

530
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 4: respond to an email from your new account, let them know, hey,

531
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 4: I changed my email. You don't have to do it

532
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 4: at all in one fell swoop. You can go really

533
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 4: slow and just do it at your own pace.

534
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: All right.

535
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: The other thing, last time you and I were together,

536
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: you looked at me and said, get rid of most

537
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: of your apps on your eyes phone, and you might

538
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: as well have just, you know, kicked me in the crotch.

539
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I these are these are beloved apps. I

540
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: mean I've got I've got apps for you know, every company,

541
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: every company that I've done business with, you know, because

542
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: they all have an app. I just installed a printer

543
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: for my mother, And in order to install the printer

544
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: I had to download the h pre printer app.

545
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, a scan here too, and it worked at all?

546
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: Loaded up just fine. You're telling me I should get

547
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: rid of this app? What should I get rid of?

548
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? You should delave like almost all the apps on

549
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 4: your phone.

550
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 5: So here's the thing that people don't realize.

551
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: Every app is an attack vector, right, and people will

552
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 4: have two hundred apps on their phone, the things they

553
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: haven't used in six months, you know, I haven't even

554
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 4: looked at. But let's look at it this way. First

555
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 4: of all, there's all the permissions you it. How many

556
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 4: of those apps have access to your camera? How many

557
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 4: of those apps have access to your microphone, your contact list,

558
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 4: getting the home address of everyone you've stored on your phone,

559
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 4: probably a ton of them you don't even remember. But

560
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 4: then you're hoping that the people who maintain these apps

561
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 4: are keeping them secure, and that's just not reasonable. There

562
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 4: is so easy to find holes in apps and attack

563
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 4: vexus where people could get in through one app on

564
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 4: your phone and then you know, infect your entire device.

565
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 4: And so people don't realize that a lot of these apps,

566
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 4: they're not being maintained well, they're not secure. You know,

567
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 4: you might have downloaded an app years ago and not

568
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 4: looked at it for a long time, and it's just

569
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 4: sitting there and now there's a whole a bunch of

570
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 4: bugs in it, and it's still collecting all this data

571
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 4: that you know, some third party is aggregating in some

572
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 4: service somewhere. So all of these apps on your phone,

573
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 4: you have to really think do I need to be

574
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 4: carrying this around with me everywhere I go? And also

575
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 4: realize the apps on your phone can see which other

576
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: apps are on your phone.

577
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 5: So you know that banking app knows that you have

578
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 5: that cryptocurrency app on your phone, and they might make

579
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 5: decisions accordingly.

580
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 4: Right, that's you know, that nonprofit knows that you have

581
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 4: that political app on your phone. That store knows that

582
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 4: you have that political app on your phone, and that's

583
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 4: another way that they can get data about you. So

584
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 4: I really strongly advise people with their phones just has

585
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: the minimum of what you actually need, you know, on

586
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 4: a day to day basis, and if you don't need

587
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 4: it all day every day as you drive around and travel,

588
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 4: et cetera, then just use those things on your home

589
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 4: computer instead inside a browser. Because it's going to be

590
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 4: less invasive than you know, installing an app on your phone.

591
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: I got, I got to run to another break anyway,

592
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: I could tempt you to stick around for one more segment.

593
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 4: Oh sure, let's do it, all right, let's do it.

594
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: Nail me Brockwell with me from Ludlow Institute dot org.

595
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 3: This is just terrifying.

596
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: You should listen to her and watch her videos as well.

597
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: Keep it here hereon Kiowe Radio. John keldera on the

598
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 2: line with me, Naomi Brockwell, lady, I know who does

599
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: a great work with Ludlow Institute to help you learn

600
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: how to protect your online privacy, which is I think

601
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: essential to a free people in a free state, because

602
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: when government can have all this information, it's not just

603
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: that King Supers has it, it's that the government has

604
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: it and I don't trust them, all right, So, Naomi,

605
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 2: we only have a couple of minutes here. The thing

606
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: you suggested switching my browser to Brave, using Signal as

607
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: a texting app when I can, and to get rid

608
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: of all the apps on my phone, and therefore I

609
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: might as well just get an old man flip phone

610
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: and live live like Grandpa does.

611
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 4: Here's the thing. A lot of people think that in

612
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: order to be private online they have to throw out

613
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 4: all of their digital devices to become a hermit, and

614
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 4: it's just not true. You could just make better choices.

615
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: The problem is that people just don't know what choices

616
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 4: that are available, you know. And more importantly, people don't

617
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 4: know what kind of surveillance is taking place. And that's

618
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 4: because number one, it's not in company's best interest to

619
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 4: tell you what kind of surveillance is taking place. If

620
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: you know, Toyota told you explicitly that when you buy

621
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 4: one of their new cars, you know, Bill who works

622
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 4: in their office, is going to get access to how

623
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 4: fast you drive, the places you go, access to your cameras,

624
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 4: like all of these things. People would say, no, I

625
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 4: don't opt into that. So companies, you know, tend to

626
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 4: write their terms of service as like fifty pages of

627
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 4: obscure legally so that no one understands instead of to

628
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 4: actually inform people. And on the other side of things,

629
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 4: governments they it's not in their best interest to tell

630
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 4: you what kind of surveillance is going on, because surveillance

631
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 4: works best when no one knows about it. So you've

632
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 4: got these two conspiring forces that just leave the individual

633
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 4: to be less empowered life. And so I think the

634
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 4: antidote is just making people aware that this stuff's going

635
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 4: on and then showing them, hey, you can just make

636
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 4: better choices. You don't have to throw out your devices.

637
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 4: You can just choose better products that don't exploit users.

638
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 8: Just choose the companies.

639
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 3: I go on the airlines a lot. I have the

640
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: United app.

641
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: That's how I get my flight information and I get

642
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: my boarding PASSI you're not telling me to get rid

643
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: of that, are you?

644
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 4: Listen? If you wanted to keep certain apps on your device,

645
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 4: totally your prerogative. You know you can make the choice

646
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 4: which apps are important to you. But I would say,

647
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 4: as a thing you could just do today, go through

648
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 4: and find ten apps that you don't really need and

649
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 4: just delete them.

650
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: What about my born hub app?

651
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 2: You're telling me I should get rid of if I

652
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: can't trust them? Who can I trust?

653
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 4: Take that web done? I know you need it.

654
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: Actually, it's funny when I went through these, I got

655
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 2: my pro paying tanks refilled for the backyard Grill and

656
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 2: the guy was like, oh, yeah, if you get.

657
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: This app, you get fifteen percent off. I was like, oh,

658
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 3: I'll do that. I got for two and then then

659
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 3: I talked to you. It's like, why would they.

660
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: Give me fifteen percent off unless they're going to pass

661
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: all my information?

662
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, when people are giving you a discount to plug

663
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 4: a certain thing into your car or to download this app,

664
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 4: it's generally because they're making money off it. How are

665
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 4: they making money? Well, probably from your social graphs and

666
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 4: your your contact list, maybe getting access to certain things

667
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 4: on the device.

668
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 6: That's what is actually you're actually paying for right there.

669
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 4: And so I would be very hesitating if someone offers

670
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 4: you something for free. Realize that nothing is for free

671
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 4: and what am I giving up in return? And quite

672
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,479
Speaker 4: often it's just not worth it. You may not feel

673
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 4: the repercussions immediately, but all of that stuff does make

674
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 4: you easier to manipulate, more vulnerable, more at risk of

675
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 4: potentially being hacked, or you're having people use information maliciously

676
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 4: against you or steal your identity.

677
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 3: People want to get more information.

678
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: If you want to get more information.

679
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: Where do they go? Too?

680
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 4: Sorry I kept you off just one start. The children

681
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 4: of fifty one percent more likely to be at risk

682
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 4: of identity fest because of the information parents put about

683
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 4: them online. So just a good factoid to take away

684
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 4: with you. But if you want to find more information,

685
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 4: go to Ludlow Institute dot org. That's Ludlow Institute dot org.

686
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 3: Naomi, thank you.

687
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: This has been incredibly helpful and a good way to

688
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: start off the new year. And people check it out

689
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 2: and check out our videos. They're remarkably helpful.

690
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 3: Naomi, thank you. I got to run. I'm John Caldera

691
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 3: back after this. Keep it right here. You're on eight

692
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 3: fifty KOA News talk and sports, KOWAY and HI hard

693
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: radio stations.

694
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: Guaranteed human.

695
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: I'm John Keldera in for mister Brown who's out of town.

696
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: Give me a call three three seven to one, three

697
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: eight five eight five.

698
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: As you may or may not know, I got a

699
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 3: different job.

700
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: I run Independence Institute, that great organization which for now

701
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: four decades has been pointing to True North for limited

702
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: government in Colorado. If you like things like charter schools

703
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: and the taxpayer Bill of Rights, concealed carry permits, the

704
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: flat income tax, well all those things are made possible

705
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 2: by Independence Institute. We're actually we're actually having a gala

706
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: to celebrate forty years of independence on February fifth, So

707
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: please go to thinkfreedom dot org, thinkfreedom dot org and

708
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: come to our party. It's gonna be it's gonna be

709
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: a whot. We're actually gonna be talking to Pete and

710
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: Jeff Cores, the Corps brothers, about all things growing up

711
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: Cores and and they're working.

712
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: In Colorado. It's gonna be great anyway.

713
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: One of the projects we do is a free news

714
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: service called Complete Colorado dot com. If you don't go

715
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 2: to Complete Colorado dot com, you're missing columns by Mike Rosen,

716
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: you're missing daily news, you're missing aggregation of news from

717
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: around the state, all for free without a paywall, and

718
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: you're missing unique reporting that nobody else does, including this

719
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: story which got some attention. You heard Jimmy Sangenberger talk

720
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: about it in his show, but you also read it

721
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: in his column Over the weekend. Savannah Cassick at Independence

722
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: Institute and Complete Colorado broke a story. I thought ebonics

723
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: was dead. A Bonics is not dead. And the young

724
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: worst person like Savannah doesn't even know what ebonics is

725
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: because you weren't even born. Then why don't you tell me, Savannah?

726
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,959
Speaker 2: What what did you find at Metropolitan State University in Denver?

727
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 7: Yeah?

728
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 8: Thanks for having me on, John, I'm glad to be

729
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 8: here today. But yeah, so I broke this story on

730
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 8: December nineteenth when we released it. And so essentially the

731
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 8: Writing Center at MSU Denver, which this isn't directly included

732
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 8: with their English department, but rather it's like a writing program,

733
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 8: a resource that they have for faculty and students.

734
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: So there's what they do is they have to they

735
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: train their students and their faculty how to write, that

736
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: lost art of actually writing.

737
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 3: That's what the college is for. That's great exactly.

738
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 8: But rather than rather than teaching them how to write correctly,

739
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 8: they teach them to write without grammar apparently. And so

740
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 8: how they do this is these students have this open

741
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 8: resource to come and get help on writing assignments and

742
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 8: research and products and projects including resumes and applications, which

743
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 8: to me is a little scary. So these people are

744
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 8: teaching students how to write properly, which it would be

745
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 8: a good thing. However, MSU Denver's Writing Center has openly

746
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 8: rejected standard American English as quote linguistic white supremacy and

747
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 8: being used as a tool for racism. They claim that

748
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 8: this is somewhat of a social construct that privileges white communities.

749
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 8: They say that because it only offers one specific, incorrect

750
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 8: way to write and speak English.

751
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 3: Let me see if I can catch up with you

752
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 3: on this one.

753
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: So the Writing Center at Metropolitan State University, which by

754
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 2: the way, that's a university that is government subsidizes, a

755
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: government run organization that their job is to, among other things,

756
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: teach kids how to write their resume and apply for

757
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 2: jobs so that they can thrive in society. But they're

758
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: also saying that if you write in standard American English.

759
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 3: You're being a racist.

760
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 2: So not to not to not to write the way

761
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: that employers want you to write, but write right.

762
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 3: In a what a DEI way.

763
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 2: I don't even know what this means, so so help

764
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: me out. First of all, what is racist about American English?

765
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: And two, what what are the rules for doing it differently?

766
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 8: Yeah?

767
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 6: Well, so apparently they say that stan American English is racist, like.

768
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 8: I said, because it only promotes one quote, as they say,

769
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 8: form of English. So as you said earlier, they promote EVONYX,

770
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 8: which you're right, I am probably a bit too young

771
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 8: for that.

772
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 6: But they refer to it as aa VE, which is

773
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 6: an African American vernacular.

774
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 8: They also encourage a form of they call it Chicano,

775
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 8: which is just a Hispanic vernacular. They encourage slang in

776
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 8: their academic writing, and they give specific examples saying that

777
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 8: English as a construct is very it changes, right, so

778
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 8: they say, like, well, you know, take the word ghosts.

779
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 8: They use the word ghost for example, in their website

780
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 8: and their web page, and they say, well, you know,

781
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 8: ghost is originally.

782
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 6: Intended to mean this like spirit or like you know, this.

783
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 8: Haunted house type of word, and nowadays it means when

784
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 8: you say the word ghosted, it means to be stood up.

785
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 6: And they're like, see what we encourage these different forms.

786
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 8: Of English is so essentially they're encouraged explain in different

787
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 8: forms of writings, especially academically, which is concerning considering you know,

788
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 8: they teach these kids how to write resumes and applications.

789
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: What you just said, what's so terrified? Hold on a second.

790
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: This is academic writing. So they want people to be

791
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: able to write in academic journals to be understood by.

792
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 3: Everyone, I suppose.

793
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 2: But if if we're not using a shared language, how

794
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 2: in the world can we pass along this information? You know?

795
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 2: And Jimmy's column was so dead on that The idea

796
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: of a common language, kind of like a common currency,

797
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: is that we share the same concepts linguistically so.

798
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 3: That we know what we're talking about.

799
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: How in the world are these kids ever going to

800
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: write a contract or read a contract for which they

801
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 2: will be personally liable if they don't understand simple American

802
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: English and grammar. This is this is just hateful. So

803
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 2: you said you used a couple of terms, one African

804
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: American English and Jicano English. Is there some sort of

805
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 2: set of rules for this? Is there an organization that

806
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 2: controls I don't even know what that is. I don't

807
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: know what that being.

808
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 4: Well, this is all about it's all about.

809
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 8: Their This is all part of their anti racist initiative

810
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 8: that they came out with. And you're right.

811
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 4: So Jimmy's article was spought on.

812
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 6: It is social, it's a social contract.

813
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 8: With social construct or how we provide communication. It's how

814
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 8: social norms come about. And Jimmy said something in his

815
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 8: article I really like. He said, it's this isn't about

816
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 8: empowered students. It's about lower lowering the American English expectation

817
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 8: for minorities. And what's scary about that is the result

818
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 8: is going to come out so much worse. So when

819
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 8: you ask about, you know, what, what are these rules?

820
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 4: One of these rules look.

821
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 6: Like it talks about how teachers.

822
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 8: It actually talks more to professors and teachers than it

823
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 8: does to students. So they encourage students to use slang,

824
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 8: and they encourage these students to you know, discover their

825
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 8: different forms of English, as they like to say in

826
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 8: their web page. But they tell the professors to grade

827
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 8: with equity, so they say, grade less on grammar and mechanics,

828
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 8: and avoid writing prompts that assume American cultural knowledge or

829
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 8: assume that like these students know what American cultural associations are,

830
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 8: and they.

831
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 6: Want to avoid any writing prompts that you know, quote.

832
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 8: How these students relive their traumas.

833
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 6: Like one example, they gave us, well, you know.

834
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 8: Right about a real like a challenge you had overcoming life.

835
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 8: They tell teachers to stay away from things like this.

836
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 8: They also have this whole thing which this was insane

837
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 8: to me. They held the whole thing on plagiarism, and

838
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 8: they say that plagiarism is it should be attacked with

839
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 8: empathy towards students or with teachers. And they say that

840
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 8: it's a form of restorative justice, they call it. And

841
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 8: so they say that, you know, students commit plagiarism for

842
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 8: many reasons, that teachers need to show empathy towards and

843
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 8: this is a straightfoat from the website says the education

844
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 8: system has taught them that their opinions and thoughts don't matter,

845
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 8: so they are just trying to get by. And another

846
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 8: quote says they are from a country that believes that

847
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 8: copying of other people's work is a homage to that

848
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 8: person and that there's nothing wrong with that. So there's

849
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 8: a holy hell.

850
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 3: Hang on a second.

851
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: This is an academic program, which is saying plagiarism is okay.

852
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: You know, one of the biggest sins in academia is

853
00:45:58,239 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: stealing other people's wars.

854
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 3: Now, when they say something like.

855
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: It is an honor, it's an homage, it's an homage

856
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: to that person. When you copy their work. There is

857
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: an academic way to do that. You simply credit that work.

858
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: When you say that Mike Rosen wrote this in his

859
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: column and then you quote him, that is giving him credit.

860
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 3: But if you steal his words as your own, that

861
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 3: is plagiarism.

862
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 2: And how crazy is it that our government university here

863
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: is encouraging this among their students and telling their faculty

864
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: to deal with that with empathy. Yeah, empathy, like you

865
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 2: get an F and you fail for plagiarism because it's

866
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: one of the worst things you can do in academia.

867
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 8: And not only are they supporting it, but even more so,

868
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 8: it's subsidized, right, So this is a public university and

869
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 8: money is going towards these programs. So I actually interviewed

870
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 8: an associate professor by named Andre Archie from the color

871
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 8: of State University. He's also the author of the book

872
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 8: Virtue of.

873
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 6: Color Blindness, and he calls this In my article, I

874
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 6: mentioned that he calls this.

875
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: Uh.

876
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 8: He even says it's condescending what and it's malpractice what

877
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 8: MSU is doing in a complete disservice to their university.

878
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 4: But he says it's a.

879
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 8: Promotion of segregationist thinking, which I thought was super interesting

880
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 8: and very true, you know, because it's still a form

881
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 8: of ideological driven segregation.

882
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 4: It's the separation.

883
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 8: And they even state very clearly at the beginning of

884
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 8: their website, you know, they say that we stand with

885
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 8: black lives Matter.

886
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 6: And we will continue to dismantle all.

887
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 8: Systems but promote racism, and so in my article I

888
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 8: also talk about how this plays.

889
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 6: Into Trump's executive orders, which are trying.

890
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 8: To review federal grants in colleges and universities to ensure

891
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 8: that they comply with the anti discrimination laws and eliminate

892
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 8: DEI programs or of course risk freederal funding. And so

893
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 8: this associate professor says that this could be in violation

894
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 8: of that, but they were running under the radar. They've

895
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 8: had this site up since October of twenty twenty two.

896
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: Since October twenty two, they're encouraging kids to reject standard

897
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: American English, encouraging their faculty to teach and not enforce

898
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 2: simple grammar.

899
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 3: And you think about racism, This is racism.

900
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: This is saying these people cannot learn how to properly write,

901
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: they cannot learn how to.

902
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 3: Create something without plagiarizing.

903
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 2: It is really insulting to those very people that they

904
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: are trying to include. It is opposite of inclusion. It's separation.

905
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 2: And it's odd that this is what we get in

906
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: modern academia.

907
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 3: It's so.

908
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 2: Sad that these kids are going into debt to get

909
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 2: a college degree at at Metropolitan State University so that

910
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: they learn how to speak ebonics plagiarize and not learn grammar.

911
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 3: What an incredible disservice.

912
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 8: You're absolutely right, joh I mean, I'm like you said,

913
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 8: I'm young. I'm only twenty two years old.

914
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 6: I just graduated college just recently, and.

915
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 8: I could affirm, I could attest to the fact that

916
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 8: going through college, it is possible to get a good education,

917
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 8: but you have to actively fight the system every single day.

918
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 8: And I had to in order to make sure that

919
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 8: I was getting the most out of my college degree.

920
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 8: You know, I was a plitical science major, and they

921
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 8: would always tell me, well, you should take you know,

922
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 8: gender and queer studies, and you should take women's studies throughout.

923
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 4: And I don't. I don't need to do that. That

924
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: doesn't apply to my major. I don't need to do

925
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 4: these things.

926
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 2: It teaches to separate us. That's what's so odd about

927
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: this is it teaches us to be separate. How did

928
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: you learn about this story? What what gave you the

929
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: tip to to find this web page and do this investigation?

930
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, so it was actually a tip from Campus Reform Ironica.

931
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 8: I used to write for Campus Reform when I was

932
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 8: in college through the Leadership Institute, and they have their

933
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 8: own news outlet that is dedicated to dismantling and kind

934
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 8: of like putting out leftist agenda within college campuses, and

935
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 8: I had seen a news report from them at the time.

936
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 8: I believe they were the only news outlet that had.

937
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 4: Reported on this topic.

938
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 6: And so I just kind of gat this information from that,

939
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:47,959
Speaker 6: and then I did.

940
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,720
Speaker 8: Some research, looked into the actual website.

941
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 6: Ended up writing a story about on it, and was able.

942
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,919
Speaker 8: To get some quotes from are Archie, which is really great.

943
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 8: And yeah that now there's there's still not a ton

944
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 8: of coverage. There's a few sites that have covered it.

945
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 8: It's more widely covered now, which has brought MSU under

946
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 8: a little bit of heat.

947
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you go looking for this web page now

948
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: from the MSU Writing Center, you can't find it. Your

949
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: little story has caused them some embarrassment.

950
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 3: What happened?

951
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, So, like I said, they have had this web

952
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 8: page up since October of twenty twenty two. My article

953
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 8: got posted on December nineteenth, and shortly after that the

954
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 8: website was taken down, and so you can't find it now. Luckily,

955
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,479
Speaker 8: I was able to grab some screenshots of the because

956
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 8: I figured that this would happened when some publicity got

957
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 8: put on it.

958
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 6: So I was able to grab some screenshots of the

959
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 6: actual web page, which is up on my article.

960
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 4: In Complete Colorado.

961
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 8: We were able to stitch together some of those pictures,

962
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 8: so it's there for everybody to see if you're interested.

963
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 8: But yeah, so now if you go onto their site,

964
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 8: you can still go to their writing page and they'll

965
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 8: have the same site is up, but all.

966
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 6: Of that information is taken down.

967
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 9: So now what it says is, you know, and.

968
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 8: It says we don't believe in one site fits all

969
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 8: approach to writing. And it goes on about respecting diversity

970
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 8: and welcoming forms of what they call neurodiversity, and they

971
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 8: have a whole section on neurodivergent traits including autism or

972
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 8: dyslexia or ADHD, and saying that these individuals are very

973
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,919
Speaker 8: welcome with them writing and wanting them to make wanting

974
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 8: to make sure that these people feel like they can

975
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 8: still come and get writing help from the center.

976
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 6: And they say that these tutors that they have are trained.

977
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 8: To adapt to different communication styles for anybody, and they

978
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 8: just kind of really harp on this diversity idea. But

979
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 8: all of the previous information is all taken down.

980
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I'm dy lexic. I'm thrilled that they say

981
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: they can help guys like me. That would be nice,

982
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: That's terrific. But I hope they teach guys like me

983
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: how to read and write. That's the part when they

984
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: say that there's different writings, there are different writing styles.

985
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: You know, if you want, if you read Huck Finn,

986
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: this is not a writing style that is used today

987
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 2: and many people find it offensive, but back then it worked.

988
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: If you want to write a great American novel, and

989
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: I keep using the term of bonyx.

990
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 3: What are they calling it now? Aa ve?

991
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 9: What is that?

992
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 8: African American vernacular? English?

993
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 3: And HVE.

994
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 6: That's the same for Hispanic I believe.

995
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 3: Are you sure that's not some sort of sexually transmitted disease? HV.

996
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 3: I think I had that in college anyway, Why something

997
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 3: like that? All right, So it was.

998
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 9: I get it.

999
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: You want to write the great American novel in Hispanic vernacular,

1000
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: go for it.

1001
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 3: Terrific, But you're trying to get a job. And my

1002
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 3: suspicion is most kids who are going.

1003
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: To MSU want a job if and when they graduate. Wait,

1004
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 2: you're not going to get a great job writing in

1005
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 2: African American vernacular English.

1006
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 3: There is no there.

1007
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 2: You're not going to be able to write a contract

1008
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 2: or read a contract. You want to buy a house someday,

1009
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 2: you want to understand that contract.

1010
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 3: How how do they justify this?

1011
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 2: Did you try to contact anyone at MSU?

1012
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 4: I did. Yeah.

1013
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 8: I contacted both the MSU media, just the media person

1014
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 8: that handled all of their media outlet inquiries, and I

1015
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 8: also contacted the writing center themselves. They both neglected to

1016
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 8: respond to me as I figured they would. I don't

1017
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 8: believe they really reached out to anybody. They did not

1018
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 8: reach out to Campus Reform, which is the only article

1019
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 8: that was released before nine was so it sounds like

1020
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 8: they were avoiding some media.

1021
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 2: Savannah Kasik, thank you so much for being here. Go

1022
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 2: to complete Colorado dot com to read this article. When

1023
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 2: we get back, I want to talk to somebody who

1024
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 2: knows a lot about English, a professor in fact. Savannah,

1025
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 2: thank you much. Back after this, I'm john to keep

1026
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 2: it right here on KOA News Talk and Sports John

1027
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 2: Caldera and from mister Brown, give me a call three

1028
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,919
Speaker 2: h three seven to one, three eight five eighty five.

1029
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:15,280
Speaker 3: Last segment.

1030
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: We heard about MSU's Writing Center claiming that standard English

1031
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 2: quote privileges white communities and maintains social and racial hierarchies.

1032
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: And then, of course quote privileges white populations and creates

1033
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 2: a destructive binary between standard American English and black or

1034
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: Hispanic englishes.

1035
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 3: What our tax money is going to?

1036
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 2: This? So? I know a guy who speaks good. He

1037
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 2: works with me at Independence Institute. He be a professor

1038
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: at be a law professors?

1039
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 3: Would he be?

1040
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: Rob Natelson? Thank you for joining me. I appreciate it.

1041
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 7: Good morning, John, It's great to be with you.

1042
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 2: All Right, you did a piece for a complete Colorado Complete.

1043
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 2: Let's try again complete Colorado dot com worth reading. You

1044
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 2: know a lot about English.

1045
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,479
Speaker 3: You English good? You English better than most people.

1046
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 2: In fact, talk to me about India just for a

1047
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 2: quick second, make a quick diversion. I mean India also

1048
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 2: has a whole bunch of dialects in native languages.

1049
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 3: How did that work for them?

1050
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 7: Well? You know, John, my primary claim to linguistic ability

1051
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 7: is I can order a beer in about six different languages.

1052
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 7: But let's answer your question about India. The article I

1053
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 7: wrote is called good News for White Supremacists. From MSU Denver.

1054
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 7: And the reason why this writing program is good news

1055
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 7: for white supremacists is because speaking standard English properly is

1056
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 7: a tradition, a way in which minority groups advance.

1057
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 2: Up the ladder.

1058
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 7: I mean, think of the way, for example, Barack Obama speaks.

1059
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 7: If Barack Obama spoke like some person right out of

1060
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 7: the ghetto, we probably wouldn't have elected him at president, Or.

1061
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: If you spoke the way that the MSU Writing Center

1062
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 2: would have him speak, that's right, Yeah.

1063
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 7: That's right. The use of proper English has always been

1064
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 7: a way in which minority groups, not just people of color,

1065
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 7: but also people from other countries like Italians, for example,

1066
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 7: who are Caucasian. Obviously for the most part, how they

1067
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 7: advance up the ladder. So if you're a white supremacist

1068
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 7: and you want to keep the minority groups down, and

1069
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 7: you reflect on the fact that most of the people

1070
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 7: at Metro State who are being taught by the Writing

1071
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 7: Center are in fact are in fact people of color,

1072
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 7: then you celebrate this decision because it means keeping the

1073
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 7: students ignorant in their own little linguistic bubble and unable

1074
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 7: to deal with the largest society. I gave the Indian example,

1075
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 7: meaning not American Indian, but Asian Indian, because it's so instructive. India,

1076
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 7: as you know, is now the most populous country in

1077
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 7: the world, has over a billion people, is past China,

1078
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 7: and they've got hundreds of different languages in India, the

1079
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 7: largest of which is Hindi. And for years, Indian nationalists

1080
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 7: try to convince their people to limit their studies to

1081
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 7: Hindi or perhaps to some other major Indian language and

1082
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 7: not study English. Why well, because English was the relic

1083
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 7: of colonialism, and in this case it was literally the

1084
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 7: relic of colonialism. India was a British colony and the

1085
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 7: British imported English. But the result of that was that

1086
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 7: those Indians who did not study English found themselves cut

1087
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 7: off from the outside world and cut off from other

1088
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 7: Indians because English is the only uniform language that the

1089
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 7: country had. Those people who studied English found themselves with

1090
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 7: the portal to the world open. And so that that's

1091
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 7: a good lesson in why it's why it is important

1092
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 7: to study the standard, whatever that study. Whatever that standard

1093
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 7: might be, whether it's Hanovian, German in Hochdeutsch in Germany

1094
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 7: or Florentine Italian in Italy, or Standard American English in

1095
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 7: this country, so.

1096
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 2: Standard American English, there is no authority, if I understand it.

1097
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 2: In Spain there is a council that that says here

1098
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 2: is the proper way to do things. I think does

1099
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 2: England or UK also have some sort of official keepers.

1100
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 3: Of the language. We don't have that in America, do we?

1101
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1102
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 7: Most famously they have it in France, and on their

1103
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 7: website the Writing Center makes that point. They say that

1104
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 7: unlike in other countries, there is no official standard. But

1105
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 7: this is typical statist thinking, right, if the government doesn't

1106
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 7: establishment establishment, then it must not exist. We have Standard

1107
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 7: English because it's the accepted language of educated communication in

1108
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 7: the United States. It doesn't have to have a government

1109
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 7: in promotor. But this is I think a window into

1110
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 7: the way that the people in the Writing Center think.

1111
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 7: I think I think that kind of a Marxist worldview.

1112
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 7: I don't know if any I don't know if they're

1113
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 7: literally Marxist, if they've read marks, but it's the sort

1114
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 7: of collectivest worldview that unless the government stamps it has approved,

1115
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 7: it's it's of no importance.

1116
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 2: Well, even if the government did stand it did stamp

1117
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: American Standard English as the English. My guess is that

1118
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 2: would still be seen as some sort of oppression to Africa.

1119
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 7: An aculate or so or so I would think, I mean,

1120
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 7: the plurality of America's white male white males control the government.

1121
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 7: They they stamped uh this particular version as as as

1122
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 7: approval and there with approval, and therefore it's racist. You

1123
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 7: get stamp john that the literature or to be the

1124
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 7: the material on the website of the writing sample a

1125
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 7: writing center. This is not about education. It's about politics.

1126
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 7: It's about what Mark Levin would call cultural Marxism. They're

1127
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 7: not apparently engaged in education. What they're engaged in is

1128
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 7: probably began propagandizing students and enlisting them in their particular

1129
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 7: kind of leftism.

1130
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 3: So you get two viewpoints here.

1131
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 2: Professionally, one as a college professor yourself, your career.

1132
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 3: Was teaching law, but also teaching law.

1133
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 2: You're a lawyer, so I don't know and address this

1134
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 2: for me. I don't know how you could have a

1135
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 2: system of law if you don't have some sort of

1136
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 2: mutually agreed upon system of communication, how could you write

1137
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 2: a contract or enforce a contract. You also do a

1138
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 2: lot of academic writing yourself, and it seems like if

1139
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 2: you're going to write something for other academics to digest,

1140
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: there has to be some agreed upon form of standard communication.

1141
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 3: Am I wrong on this?

1142
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 7: Well, oh no, yeah, you're absolutely right, And in fact,

1143
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 7: you've pointed out indirectly another aspect at the point I

1144
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 7: made earlier, which is that the effect of not teaching

1145
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 7: statured English is to keep people down. If you don't

1146
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 7: have Standard English, you're not going to be able to

1147
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 7: go to law school or get through law school. You're

1148
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 7: not going to be able to function as a lawyer

1149
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 7: if that's your chosen career. You're not going to be

1150
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 7: able to function as an academic, you know, in law. Sometimes,

1151
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 7: or people who are non lawyers, some people who are

1152
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 7: lawyers often asked the question why is there so much

1153
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 7: Latin in law? And the answer is for the same reason.

1154
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 7: It is a language that has certain precise meanings. We

1155
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 7: call them terms of art, and in the same way,

1156
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 7: standard English provides us with precise meanings. When Savannah was

1157
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 7: on a few minutes ago, she mentioned that the Writing

1158
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 7: Writing Center argues that, well, you know, Standard English changes

1159
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 7: over time, but that's not much of a reason not

1160
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 7: to study it. I mean, you can imagine if it

1161
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 7: diving school said to you, we're not going to train

1162
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 7: anybody in the current model cars because the models are

1163
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 7: going to just change over time, so we're going to

1164
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 7: we're not going to train you in the current models.

1165
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 7: I mean, that's an absurd argument.

1166
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 2: The idea of a common language. It's one of the

1167
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 2: reasons America has become a world dominant economic power is

1168
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 2: not only do we have this incredible fertile land mass

1169
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 2: full of resources, but we've had a singular currency that

1170
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 2: we all share, so economically we speak the same language,

1171
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 2: and quite literally, we speak the same language. That a

1172
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 2: guy could write a letter from a business in New

1173
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 2: York back in the day to a business in La

1174
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 2: and come up with a deal and work out a

1175
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 2: contract and do business. They could pick up the phone

1176
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 2: later on or talking on a wireless and be able

1177
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 2: to communicate, and that was difficult. You really couldn't do

1178
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: that in Europe. You couldn't do that in India, you

1179
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 2: couldn't do that in so many places. Well, and it

1180
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 2: is it is a leftover from imperialism.

1181
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, in Europe they use Latin for centuries. Is really

1182
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 7: a common language, So they adopted Latin today increasingly as English.

1183
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 7: I mean, one of the things that economists have noted,

1184
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 7: and it's not just the United States, is that the

1185
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 7: use of English gives people in countries that speak it

1186
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 7: an enormous advantage. I mean, whether you're American or Canadian,

1187
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 7: or Australian, or or British or an Indian East Indian

1188
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 7: who knows English, this gives you an enormous advantage. They

1189
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 7: even coined a term for it. It's called the anglosphere. Now,

1190
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 7: language is not the only advantage that the anglosphere has.

1191
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 7: It also has the advantage of the common law system,

1192
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 7: for example. But it is a huge element in our prosperity.

1193
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 7: But again, want us to understand what's going on. Apparently

1194
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 7: at MSU Denver, at least in this writing center, it's

1195
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 7: not about education. It's not really about enabling or equipping

1196
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 7: students with what they need for life and for their careers.

1197
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 7: It's about politics. It's about dividing people. It's about fragmenting

1198
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 7: people into societal groups and then setting them against each other. Unfortunately,

1199
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 7: that's a mark of what's been called cultural Marxism, and

1200
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 7: it's increasingly a mark of what we today call progressivism,

1201
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 7: the idea that you lump people into different groups and

1202
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 7: then you get them to hate each other and fight

1203
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 7: against each other. Why well, there's a famous slogan, divide

1204
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 7: and rule. If you can divide people enough, then it

1205
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 7: makes you it easier for you by manipulating them to

1206
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 7: rise to the top and control them.

1207
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 2: Rob Nagelsen, people want to read your work. Where's a

1208
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: good place.

1209
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 3: For them to go? Ah?

1210
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 7: Yes, they should go to the Independence Institute. That that

1211
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 7: would be I too. I the letter I, the number two,

1212
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 7: the letter I dot org and then forward slash constitution,

1213
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 7: so the Constitution Studies page at the Independence Institute.

1214
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: Rob, thank you so much, and I always appreciate the

1215
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 2: history lesson got to run.

1216
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 7: Thank you to giving me a call.

1217
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 2: Three O three seven one three eight five eight five.

1218
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 2: I'm John Caldera in for Brownie.

1219
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 3: Keep it right here.

1220
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 2: You're on KOA News talking sports. John Caldera, give me

1221
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 2: a call. Three O three seven one three eighty five

1222
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 2: eighty five.

1223
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 3: I remember.

1224
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 2: I remember having to learn English grammar in that Catholic school.

1225
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 3: Because you will learn this or you will be beaten.

1226
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 3: And I still kind of didn't learn it. Do you

1227
01:07:59,360 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 3: remember die.

1228
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 2: Diagramming sentences. This is something that I don't think happens

1229
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 2: any longer. So diagramming sentences, which I hated as a kid.

1230
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 2: Oh now this is an article, this is the verb this,

1231
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 2: and you would write, they'd give you a sentence and

1232
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 2: you'd have to diagram it. But it allowed you to

1233
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 2: understand the logic of the sentence, that the adjective goes here,

1234
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 2: the noun goes there, and if you just change the

1235
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 2: the order of a few words.

1236
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 3: The whole sentence means something different.

1237
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 2: So I think about these poor kids who are going

1238
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 2: into their debt in order to in order to get

1239
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 2: a college degree at MSU, and they come out and

1240
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 2: they actually learn less. They actually get stupefied at taxpayer

1241
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 2: expense and their own debt to learn how to not

1242
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 2: speak English, how not to write English, how not to

1243
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 2: be comprehended by those people who, oh, I don't know,

1244
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 2: might give them a job someday. That is racism. This

1245
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 2: is why the whole DEI world, which claims to be

1246
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 2: you know, just nice, we want to be nice, it's

1247
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 2: actually very hateful. It is very separatist. What it is

1248
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 2: is we're going to build a world where you can.

1249
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 2: You know where you can go do your own thing.

1250
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 2: That's great and we will bend to you. So does

1251
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: that mean that every American is supposed to learn a

1252
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 2: bon x or what is now called aa v E

1253
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:57,000
Speaker 2: African American Vernacular English or HV.

1254
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 3: Hispanic Vernacular English or all the others.

1255
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 2: So are we all supposed to learn this and be

1256
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 2: able to identify it when we hear it and be

1257
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 2: able to go back?

1258
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 3: Do you remember the old comedy Airplane or they.

1259
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 2: Had who played who played June Cleaver, the Beaver's mom,

1260
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 2: And there are a couple of black guys on the

1261
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: plane and they lean into it and it's funny and

1262
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 2: nobody can understand what they're saying.

1263
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 3: And then along comes.

1264
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 2: Lily White missus Cleaver, who says, Oh, don't worry, I

1265
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 2: speak jive, and then she starts speaking jive apparently now

1266
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 2: called ebonics or perhaps African American Vernacular English. It was

1267
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: pretty good. Is that the world we're supposed to have?

1268
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 2: And imagine if somebody tried, some white guy tried to

1269
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 2: speak to a black man and using African American Vernacular English,

1270
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 2: what trouble he would get into? At the very least,

1271
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 2: its cultural appropriation. But it'll just be called racism again.

1272
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a quick breather A three O

1273
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: three seven one three eight five eight five.

1274
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 3: I'm John Caldera and for Michael Brown. Keep it right here.

1275
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 3: You're in KOA, News talks, sports, KOA, and HI heard

1276
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 3: radio stations.

1277
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 1: Guaranteed human.

1278
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 2: On this date in nineteen seventy four, in a hotel

1279
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:46,679
Speaker 2: in Disney World, the Polynesian Village Hotel, the Beatles officially ended.

1280
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 2: John Lennon was the last of the four Beatles to

1281
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 2: sign the documents dissolving the Beatles.

1282
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 3: Somehow, it being in Disney World adds to that. Hey,

1283
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:03,679
Speaker 3: I'm John Caldera.

1284
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 2: Six minutes after give me a call three h three

1285
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 2: seven to one, three eighty five eighty five, seven to one,

1286
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 2: three eight five eighty five.

1287
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 3: All right. I love the minimum wage. Actually I love

1288
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:19,719
Speaker 3: to hate the minimum wage.

1289
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 2: The minimum wage, I feel, is a hate law, not

1290
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:24,719
Speaker 2: just bad policy.

1291
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 3: It is a hate law.

1292
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 2: How do I describe that? I think any law that

1293
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 2: keeps two willing people apart is hateful. A law that says,

1294
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 2: you know, two people of different races can't get married,

1295
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 2: or can't start a business together, or can't work together.

1296
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 2: That's a hateful law. You have laws that that banned

1297
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 2: gay marriage. I find that pretty hateful. You want to

1298
01:12:55,439 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 2: get married, get married, But when when it comes to employment,

1299
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 2: people seem to value the height of a minimum wage law.

1300
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 3: So let me see if I got this right. Let's

1301
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 3: let's draw out this picture.

1302
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 2: Let's say there are a couple women live next to

1303
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: each other. One is an accountant works at home. The

1304
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 2: other one is a stay at home mom whose kids

1305
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 2: are finally going off to school and she'd like to

1306
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: learn accounting.

1307
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:29,280
Speaker 4: You know.

1308
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 2: Woman number one says, Hey, I can pay you five

1309
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:34,800
Speaker 2: bucks an hour and you can come over any time

1310
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:35,839
Speaker 2: that's convenient.

1311
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 3: We can work on this. Great.

1312
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 2: I learned something. This is a terrific thing, and most importantly,

1313
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 2: I will be able to stay home and be there

1314
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,759
Speaker 2: for my kids when they get back from school.

1315
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 3: Perfect.

1316
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 2: Now, if the two women wanted to have sex, progressives

1317
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 2: would say it is their.

1318
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 3: Right to do so, and we need to protect that relationship.

1319
01:13:59,200 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 3: I would agree.

1320
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 2: If they wanted to get married, progressives would say, these

1321
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 2: two ladies want to get married, we should protect their

1322
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 2: right to do so, and I would agree. But the

1323
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 2: relationship they want is an employer employee relationship for under

1324
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 2: the minimum wage, for under the minimum wage, and progressives

1325
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 2: say that's too perverse. We cannot allow them to have

1326
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 2: that private, consensual relationship. So basically, progressives believe in consensual

1327
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 2: relationships only when people are naked. If they instead want

1328
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 2: to have an employee employer relationship, we will prevent them

1329
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:58,480
Speaker 2: from having that consensual, mutually agreed upon relationship. Someone described

1330
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 2: to me how that is not hateful, That is most

1331
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 2: definitely hateful three h three seven one three eighty five

1332
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 2: eighty five seven one three eight five eighty five.

1333
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 3: They go a little further.

1334
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 2: One of the problems with the progressive thought pattern is

1335
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 2: that they believe that we all value the same thing

1336
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 2: at the same level.

1337
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 3: That we're all you know, we all want a job

1338
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:33,679
Speaker 3: for the money, for the money.

1339
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,600
Speaker 2: For those of us who work in think tanks the

1340
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 2: way I do at Independence Institute, go to thinkfreedom dot

1341
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 2: org at least sign up for our newsletter thinkfreedom dot org.

1342
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not really the money.

1343
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 2: There was a time you could do talk radio for

1344
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 2: the money, but no, no, those of us who love

1345
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 2: talk radio, trust me, we ain't doing it for the money.

1346
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 2: There are reasons people take a job outside of money.

1347
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 2: Maybe it's to learn a new skill. Maybe it's because

1348
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:12,640
Speaker 2: they want to be part of a mission that they like.

1349
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 2: Maybe they want to work at the animal shelter because

1350
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 2: it's something they believe in. Maybe they just want to

1351
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 2: get out of the house. Maybe they want to build

1352
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 2: friendships and relationships. There is a million reasons why someone

1353
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 2: would choose one job over another job. It might be

1354
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 2: that it's closer, therefore I don't have to spend time

1355
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:41,280
Speaker 2: in transit. It might be because the job is much

1356
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 2: more flexible and therefore I can keep hours that are

1357
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:45,560
Speaker 2: better for me.

1358
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 3: They're all sorts of.

1359
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 2: Things that go into this this calculation. The life seems

1360
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 2: to think, no, it's money. The only people were just

1361
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,679
Speaker 2: automatons that we work for the money. Give me the money,

1362
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 2: and therefore you will get paid this. My son has

1363
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 2: down syndrome. He's twenty one and he would love to work.

1364
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 2: I would love for him to work. In fact, when

1365
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 2: he was in school, they would bring him to some

1366
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,000
Speaker 2: different work sites for training. And I've told you this

1367
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:23,080
Speaker 2: story before, but it's worth it again. One of the

1368
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 2: sites was a hardware store. Now he really couldn't do

1369
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 2: much he would kind of clean the countertop with a

1370
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:35,799
Speaker 2: rag in the spray bottle and clean the shopping carts.

1371
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 2: And when he came home, asked him, well, how was work?

1372
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:47,679
Speaker 2: And I swear to God, the kid grew two inches

1373
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:53,040
Speaker 2: in stature. He said, great, Dad, Great, And I said

1374
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 2: what was the best part of working at the hardware store?

1375
01:17:56,920 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 2: And he made this little gesture on his chest and

1376
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 2: then he said best vest, Dad, because the.

1377
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 3: Wore green vests. I said, what did you like most

1378
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 3: about the vest? And he pointed to pointed to his

1379
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 3: chest and said, name tag, name tag, Dad. And what

1380
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 3: did the name tag say? I asked him. He said, Chance.

1381
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 3: My son's name is Chance. It's a chance.

1382
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 2: And you could see the beming pride this kid had

1383
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:29,959
Speaker 2: for being part of a team, for wearing a uniform,

1384
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:33,680
Speaker 2: for doing some work. Now he doesn't understand money. He

1385
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 2: can't even consistently count to five, much like his old man,

1386
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 2: but to have the dignity of work brought up his

1387
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 2: his self worth. Now, from my point of view, what's

1388
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 2: important for me is that my son works with normal

1389
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 2: people now called typical people, because that's where he gets

1390
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 2: to practice speaking. He has a hard time speaking and

1391
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,800
Speaker 2: when he talks to normal folks. His speech improves, his

1392
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 2: behavior improves, his focus sharpens.

1393
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 3: So being at a job site helps him.

1394
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 2: It helps him tremendously with all the areas of his

1395
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 2: life he needs help with, including being part of society.

1396
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 3: I don't care if the guy makes a nickel an hour.

1397
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 2: So Denver's minimum wage is set to turn to nineteen

1398
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 2: dollars and twenty nine cents per hour.

1399
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 3: My son will not give you that kind of output. Now,

1400
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 3: he might be a great worker.

1401
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 2: He'd be great at a restaurant, for instance, showing people

1402
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 2: to their table, or maybe even pouring water, maybe cleaning

1403
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,879
Speaker 2: up afterwards, but not much more. But to be around

1404
01:19:56,479 --> 01:20:01,599
Speaker 2: those typical people, to have conversations with customer. Oh, they

1405
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:03,800
Speaker 2: would love it. He would love it. Everybody would love it.

1406
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 2: But a restaurant is not going to pay twenty bucks

1407
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 2: an hour for that. I don't need them to pay

1408
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 2: twenty bucks an hour. His hay, which he doesn't even understand,

1409
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:22,560
Speaker 2: is is the self worth and the education and the

1410
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 2: community and being part of something bigger than himself.

1411
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 3: It's what makes him a full man. And this minimum

1412
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:38,080
Speaker 3: wage denies that. It absolutely denies that from him. Oh

1413
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:39,960
Speaker 3: maybe he can find a volunteer position.

1414
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 2: Maybe he can, you know, do some manual task in

1415
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 2: the back room someplace, you know where. We should keep

1416
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 2: guys like that, you know, keep them out of the

1417
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 2: main society and separated.

1418
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 3: Of course, I guess that's what the left wants.

1419
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 2: They don't want integration, they don't want people working together,

1420
01:20:57,240 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 2: they don't want diversity. No, no, no, no, not if

1421
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 2: it's for nineteen dollars and twenty eight cents an hour.

1422
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 3: That would be wrong. So my son should spend.

1423
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 2: And people like him should to spend his time at home,

1424
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 2: you know, watching television, maybe playing video games, instead of

1425
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 2: being part of a productive society.

1426
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 3: That is hate. That is hate, plain and simple. Oh yeah,

1427
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:28,679
Speaker 3: we can do all the other arguments.

1428
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 2: We can say, Oh no, no, no, it's it's bad

1429
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 2: for the economy, and the minimum wage is bad for

1430
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 2: the economy. It's bad for people who want to learn

1431
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 2: a new skill. Yeah, that's true.

1432
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 3: That's true.

1433
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 2: It's bad for small businesses. Yes, businesses will fail. All

1434
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 2: those reasons are accurate. That's not the reason why I

1435
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 2: hate it. I hate it because it's hateful. It is hateful.

1436
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 2: It keeps willing people apart. Give me other instances when

1437
01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 2: willing people should be kept apart for doing something that

1438
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 2: harms no one, that oppresses no one, because people usually

1439
01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:13,639
Speaker 2: don't agree to be in an oppressive relationship. Insert marriage

1440
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 2: joke here three oh three seven one three eighty five

1441
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:21,760
Speaker 2: eighty five seven to one three eight five eighty five.

1442
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 2: But yet our minimum wage is going to go up.

1443
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:31,760
Speaker 2: Let me give you one even better. What should the

1444
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:37,200
Speaker 2: minimum wage be hooked to? You know here in Colorado

1445
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 2: it's hooked to inflation, and now that it's been unleashed

1446
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:46,360
Speaker 2: on the local level, you've got businesses going out of business.

1447
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,120
Speaker 2: We've had what four hundred restaurants go out of business

1448
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 2: in the last year alone in Denver because largely the

1449
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,599
Speaker 2: minimum wage. So maybe the inflation isn't the right thing

1450
01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 2: to do it to.

1451
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 3: How about this?

1452
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 2: Officials in Santa Fe, New Mexico have figured it out

1453
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 2: because they can engineer society.

1454
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 3: Better than other people can engineer how others should live.

1455
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 2: Officials in Santa Fe are launching a groundbreaking initiative that

1456
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 2: ties minimum wage increases to both consumer prices and fair

1457
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:28,680
Speaker 2: market rental rates, aiming to help residents priced out of

1458
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 2: the city and prevent cultural erosion. According to an AP report,

1459
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 2: the program makes Santa Fe the first city in the

1460
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:45,680
Speaker 2: country to directly link wages to housing affordability.

1461
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 3: Are you insane with this? So we're just going to

1462
01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:03,080
Speaker 3: increase minimum wage every time your rent goes up? Good

1463
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 3: God Almighty help me with this.

1464
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 2: Three or three seven, one, three eight five eight five.

1465
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:09,920
Speaker 2: Let's go to the phones and talk to Kat.

1466
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 9: Kat.

1467
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 2: Welcome.

1468
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 3: You're with John Kelvin.

1469
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 10: Good morning John. I just want him to say, you know,

1470
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 10: I worked at a farm and beef store and there

1471
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 10: was a young man there that was that had some

1472
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 10: challenges and my whole world is hurry, hurry, hurry, and

1473
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 10: it was so nice when you know, I got to

1474
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,560
Speaker 10: just stop and visit with him because of that conversation

1475
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 10: usually took a little while, and you just to remember

1476
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 10: to take.

1477
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:41,719
Speaker 8: Time and be human.

1478
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 10: So I think your son probably gives us as much

1479
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 10: as what but what we give him, if not more,

1480
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:55,720
Speaker 10: just to remember our humanity. And so I think that

1481
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 10: you know, there are there are several places, you know

1482
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 10: that might still hire him, and she'll give back to

1483
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 10: everyone more than they could possibly imagine.

1484
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 4: So I would.

1485
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:10,320
Speaker 3: Hope so.

1486
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 2: And I think we've all had those situations and I

1487
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 2: want to remind us it's the left that keeps screaming tolerance.

1488
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 2: It is the left that keeps screaming diversity, and it's

1489
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 2: tolerance at gunpoint, and it's diversity at gunpoint. But here,

1490
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 2: when it comes to the free exchange and consensual relationships,

1491
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 2: they say no. So someone like my son in a

1492
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 2: store like that, Yes, I think many, maybe not most,

1493
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 2: maybe not all, but most people would love to share

1494
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 2: that quick experience with him of talking with him, and

1495
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 2: it gives you a different perspective. Guys like my son

1496
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:58,760
Speaker 2: make other people's days better, and it does it kind

1497
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,200
Speaker 2: of zaps you back into reality. It's hard to be

1498
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 2: around my son and feel sorry for yourself. It's hard

1499
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:08,800
Speaker 2: to be around my son and not enjoy life. He's

1500
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 2: just a party. He's John Belushi on two feet. It's ridiculous.

1501
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 2: But you are now denied that experience because he's not

1502
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 2: supposed to get a job because because of the minimum wage.

1503
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 3: And again I don't it's not the money. It's not

1504
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 3: the money.

1505
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 2: I don't care if he gets paid a nickel, but

1506
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 2: to have a job brings him self worth.

1507
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 3: What was your first job? Do you remember your first job?

1508
01:26:40,520 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 10: A grocery store. I was a cashier, And.

1509
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 3: What did you learn from that?

1510
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 4: People?

1511
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,639
Speaker 10: Still, Oh my gosh, do you deal with everyone from

1512
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 10: the friendly to the most irritating and frustrating people on

1513
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 10: the planet sometimes.

1514
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 3: Was it a at this age in your life? Was

1515
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:02,520
Speaker 3: it a good experience?

1516
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 10: Oh my gosh, yes, yeah, absolutely was essential. I think

1517
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 10: to how I turned out, and I think some of

1518
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:18,080
Speaker 10: the people skills that I still have today, I relate

1519
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 10: back to that first job.

1520
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:22,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it.

1521
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 2: It taught you responsibility, It taught you. In a lot

1522
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 2: of cases, your first job taught you I want to

1523
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:33,519
Speaker 2: go to school so I don't have to do this

1524
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:38,600
Speaker 2: job anymore, which is also a fine lesson. But imagine

1525
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,639
Speaker 2: when you didn't have a job. In comparison, you missed

1526
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 2: these lessons. You miss the self reliance and people like

1527
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 2: my son, And by the way, it's not just my son,

1528
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:53,440
Speaker 2: it's anybody who's looking to enter the workforce is denied

1529
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:58,719
Speaker 2: that because of a nineteen twenty dollars an hour minimum

1530
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 2: wage in in Denver. And I believe shame on us,

1531
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 2: Shame on us for not making the moral case.

1532
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 3: Against the minimum wage. That is, it is a weapon

1533
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:13,719
Speaker 3: of hate.

1534
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 2: It is a weapon to keep willing people apart, and

1535
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 2: I find it just disgusting. Hey, Kat, thanks for the call.

1536
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:22,599
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. My numbers three oh three, seven to one,

1537
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,240
Speaker 2: three eight, five eighty five. I'm John Caldera.

1538
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:28,879
Speaker 3: Keep it right here. You're in KOA news talk in sports.

1539
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 3: I love about talk radio.

1540
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 2: At the end of the year, everybody's running out trying

1541
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:34,560
Speaker 2: to burn up their vacation time while they still have

1542
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 2: a couple of days. That means I get to sit

1543
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 2: in I like that. Check out what I do at

1544
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 2: thinkfreedom dot org. Thinkfreedom dot org. That's Independence Institute. Sign

1545
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 2: up for our newsletter. Check out our fortieth anniversary gala

1546
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 2: coming up on February fifth.

1547
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:53,680
Speaker 3: Check out Complete Colorado dot Com.

1548
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:58,680
Speaker 2: That is our news site that aggregates stories from newspapers,

1549
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 2: TV all over on Colorado's specific issues.

1550
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:07,240
Speaker 3: And it's without a paywall. It's there for you. Give

1551
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 3: it a try.

1552
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,639
Speaker 2: You're gonna find that you'll use it every single day.

1553
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:12,439
Speaker 2: That's Complete Colorado dot Com.

1554
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:14,759
Speaker 3: All right, let's get back out to Santa Fe because

1555
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 3: this is just spectacular. So Santa Fe.

1556
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 2: Wants to tie their minimum wage not just to inflation,

1557
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 2: but to how much it costs to rent.

1558
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 3: What this is what I love about social engineers.

1559
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:42,960
Speaker 2: Is that they know how society should work and they

1560
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:45,920
Speaker 2: can just you know, play with the levers willy nilly.

1561
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:52,639
Speaker 2: So because rents are getting high, by the way, why

1562
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 2: do rents get high? I know this is not a

1563
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 2: trick question, don't worry. It's a supply and demand thing.

1564
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:08,719
Speaker 2: When demand outstrips supply, prices rise. I know that's crazy

1565
01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 2: for a lot of people. Why do they rise? Well,

1566
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:15,760
Speaker 2: some people are maximizizing profit, but it also means that

1567
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 2: prices fall. It's dynamic, and that dynamic information tells us

1568
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:24,640
Speaker 2: what to do.

1569
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 3: It's how we figure that out.

1570
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:31,360
Speaker 2: It's when prices of eggs go high, we go hmm,

1571
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 2: maybe we'll buy a few less eggs and we'll buy

1572
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:36,839
Speaker 2: a little bit more chicken. It gives us the signals

1573
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:42,080
Speaker 2: we need. But when you take away those prices, that's

1574
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 2: what screws up supply and demand and prices. My guess

1575
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,599
Speaker 2: is in places like Santa Fe and in Boulder, where

1576
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 2: there are growth boundaries where you cannot build enough for supply,

1577
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:00,640
Speaker 2: prices go up. Now, if they let people build more properties,

1578
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:02,320
Speaker 2: prices would go down.

1579
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:03,960
Speaker 3: But that's not really what they want.

1580
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 2: Should the minimum wage be tied to something like rent prices?

1581
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 2: How about my car payment? How about how about the

1582
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:21,480
Speaker 2: cost of bananas?

1583
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1584
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 2: You tell me three h three seven one three eight

1585
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:27,960
Speaker 2: five eighty five. I'm John Calderic. Keep it right here.

1586
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 3: Eight fifty KOA News talks sport out in Santa Fe.

1587
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 3: They want to tie the minimum wage to rent. You know,

1588
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 3: this stuff feels so good, doesn't it. It just feels good?

1589
01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 3: But who are you really helping?

1590
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 2: You're disconnecting reality from people. So and the reason the

1591
01:31:58,840 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 2: reason we're in this me yes with the minimum wage

1592
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 2: is quite simply because you and I and people who

1593
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:09,519
Speaker 2: don't like it keep making the wrong argument against it.

1594
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 2: We keep arguing that it's bad for the economy, which

1595
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 2: it is. That it's bad for businesses, which it is.

1596
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 2: That it's bad for young people who want to get

1597
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 2: into the work situation, which it is.

1598
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 3: But we don't make the argument that it is simply

1599
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:26,000
Speaker 3: immoral and hateful.

1600
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:30,640
Speaker 2: For the same reason a law that says people of

1601
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 2: different races shouldn't get married. It stops people from having

1602
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:42,519
Speaker 2: the consensual relationships they want and if they want an

1603
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:45,920
Speaker 2: employer employee relationship, and they want to do it for

1604
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:50,840
Speaker 2: a penny less than Denver's new nineteen dollars and twenty

1605
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 2: nine cents an hour wage. They should morally it is hateful,

1606
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:03,839
Speaker 2: and I want to see progressives trip over themselves explaining

1607
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 2: how it's not hateful, that it's government's business to tell

1608
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 2: these two people that they cannot have that relationship, that

1609
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 2: someone like my disabled son shouldn't be able to have

1610
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 2: a job like that. And by the way, Colorado a

1611
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,639
Speaker 2: few years ago passed a law saying that disabled people

1612
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:29,719
Speaker 2: cannot be paid less than minimum wage, which means someone

1613
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 2: like my son who's not doing it for the money,

1614
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 2: shouldn't have that job unless you can get paid to

1615
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:37,120
Speaker 2: twenty dollars an hour.

1616
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 3: It invites discrimination. It's just awful.

1617
01:33:44,320 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 2: It's just awful. Have you noticed how bad is Stauant

1618
01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 2: eight day no more? It's getting harder and harder to

1619
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:00,719
Speaker 2: keep small businesses alive, and it's only going to get worse,

1620
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 2: a lot worse. So you have the minimum wage laws,

1621
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 2: you have the increased taxes, you have the Family Leave Act,

1622
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 2: which is one percent payroll tax. You've got more and

1623
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:18,839
Speaker 2: more energy prices which hit business is harder, particularly restaurants

1624
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:22,760
Speaker 2: that use a lot of energy and they can't keep

1625
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:23,439
Speaker 2: it going.

1626
01:34:25,880 --> 01:34:28,519
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal has an interesting little article. Let me

1627
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:29,320
Speaker 3: just share it with you.

1628
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:34,280
Speaker 2: Why a five hundred dollars steak dinner only yields a

1629
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 2: twenty five dollars profit. Oh, this is incredible. And they

1630
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 2: take a look at a restaurant in Chicago and they

1631
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 2: say a bill for a dinner for four can easily

1632
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:53,440
Speaker 2: climb to five hundred dollars. But accounting for the restaurant's

1633
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:57,400
Speaker 2: costs from the steak to the rent profits from the

1634
01:34:57,479 --> 01:35:05,240
Speaker 2: meal amount to about twenty five dollars. That's a lot

1635
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 2: of exposure to make a five percent return. I mean

1636
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:16,200
Speaker 2: at which point investors will go forget this. I'll just

1637
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 2: put my money into a money market and make five

1638
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 2: percent instead of risking all the brain damage and lawsuits

1639
01:35:23,200 --> 01:35:25,160
Speaker 2: and hassle.

1640
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:26,639
Speaker 3: Of running a restaurant.

1641
01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:31,679
Speaker 2: So a guy looks at a restaurant charges a family

1642
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 2: for five hundred bucks or party for five hundred bucks

1643
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:39,240
Speaker 2: to have dinner at a place called Kindling in Chicago.

1644
01:35:40,240 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 2: So on food and alcohol, the restaurant, not the customer,

1645
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:49,679
Speaker 2: but the restaurant has to spend one hundred and ninety

1646
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:55,760
Speaker 2: dollars to buy the food and alcohol, well, to make

1647
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 2: the food and put together the alcohol and do it all.

1648
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:01,799
Speaker 2: They spend one hundred and seven twenty five dollars on labor.

1649
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:08,520
Speaker 2: On labor, they spend one hundred and ten dollars on rent, insurance,

1650
01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 2: and other fixed costs. Whether they make any business or

1651
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:16,360
Speaker 2: don't make any business, they got to pay this and

1652
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:17,720
Speaker 2: get split out on your bill.

1653
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 3: That leaves him twenty five bucks. Twenty five bucks.

1654
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:28,920
Speaker 2: So the guy who runs a place says, those margins

1655
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:34,040
Speaker 2: are slim. Beef is more expensive than ever. Many restaurants

1656
01:36:34,040 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 2: are feeling to squeeze. Steakhouses in particular, aren't a pinch

1657
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,160
Speaker 2: given on the reliance on the sale of dishes with

1658
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:42,560
Speaker 2: a juicy porterhouse or rabbi.

1659
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 7: Hmmm.

1660
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:50,559
Speaker 2: Wholesale costs for beef destined for steak filaise have ballooned

1661
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:58,679
Speaker 2: around sixty seven percent from the pre pandemic levels. Tariffs

1662
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:05,160
Speaker 2: don't help them, he says. Labor costs, workers comp. It

1663
01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 2: is all skyrocketed here in Denver. Think about labor costs

1664
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 2: thanks to the minimum wage, skyrocketing, workers comp skyrocketing all

1665
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:21,000
Speaker 2: insurance costs, health insurance costs, so at the business owner

1666
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:26,519
Speaker 2: picks up a large share of Skyrocket all because of Colorado. Colorado,

1667
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:29,280
Speaker 2: by the way, has some of the highest inflation rates

1668
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 2: of the country Denver has. That's not a surprise given

1669
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:38,280
Speaker 2: our ridiculous energy policies and our insurance costs and our

1670
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:39,080
Speaker 2: rent issues.

1671
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:41,240
Speaker 9: Hmm.

1672
01:37:45,160 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 3: And then you add the tariffs on top of that.

1673
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:51,200
Speaker 3: How has this change? I like this example.

1674
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:58,360
Speaker 2: They're looking at a group that runs some state restaurants

1675
01:37:58,439 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 2: called the Gibson Restaurant Group.

1676
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:05,479
Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen, six years.

1677
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 2: Ago, a New York strip cost a customer cost a

1678
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 2: customer fifty four dollars. That same strip now costs seventy dollars.

1679
01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:26,360
Speaker 2: That's for the customer, So the customer's cost has has

1680
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:31,880
Speaker 2: gone up. What is that twenty five percent? That's only

1681
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:36,240
Speaker 2: one side of the equation for the restaurant. Back in

1682
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, six years ago, the cost to buy the

1683
01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:47,000
Speaker 2: beef was between thirteen dollars and twenty six dollars. That's

1684
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:51,920
Speaker 2: now gone up from thirteen dollars to twenty two dollars,

1685
01:38:54,120 --> 01:39:03,320
Speaker 2: meaning their profit margin gets squeezed. That profit margin gets squeezed,

1686
01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 2: so they buy a thirteen ounce New York strip steak

1687
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 2: for twenty five bucks. That same steak cost them sixteen

1688
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 2: bucks a few years back. Now, even though they charge

1689
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:26,240
Speaker 2: it at seventy bucks, which is a huge increase. If

1690
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:29,519
Speaker 2: they were to keep it at the same profit margins

1691
01:39:30,120 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 2: as they did before the pandemic, instead of charging seventy bucks,

1692
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:39,760
Speaker 2: they would need to charge ninety dollars, and that means

1693
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:42,760
Speaker 2: they would lose more customers. Talk to anyone in the

1694
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:46,760
Speaker 2: restaurant business and they'll tell you how tight it is. Well,

1695
01:39:47,240 --> 01:39:50,760
Speaker 2: talk to me a guy who liked going to restaurants

1696
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:54,240
Speaker 2: who's now trying not to go to restaurants because they're

1697
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:55,160
Speaker 2: so expensive.

1698
01:39:55,720 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 3: And let's be honest, the service is not that great anymore.

1699
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:05,679
Speaker 2: Have you noticed the service at the restaurants you frequent

1700
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:10,559
Speaker 2: isn't as good, but the prices keep going up three

1701
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 2: oh three seven to one three eight five eighty five

1702
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:20,840
Speaker 2: seven one three eighty five eighty five. Wow. That also

1703
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:23,680
Speaker 2: means that people are drinking less when they drive when

1704
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:27,320
Speaker 2: they go out. That's the high profit area for restaurants.

1705
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:31,679
Speaker 2: This is a bad time to be in a restaurant

1706
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:34,439
Speaker 2: and it's not gonna get better in Colorado. It's not

1707
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:36,559
Speaker 2: gonna get better in Boulder, it's not gonna get better

1708
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:44,559
Speaker 2: in Denver as minimum wages skyrocket. Now Colorado has tied

1709
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:50,560
Speaker 2: the statewide minimum wage to inflation. Cities like Boulder and

1710
01:40:50,680 --> 01:40:55,799
Speaker 2: Denver have tied their local massive minimum wage to inflation.

1711
01:40:57,720 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 2: Why because as the people who have done it don't

1712
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:07,680
Speaker 2: remember stagflation, don't remember when both unemployment would go up

1713
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:08,880
Speaker 2: and inflation.

1714
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 3: In economics, there's this idea.

1715
01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:17,200
Speaker 2: It's called the Phillips curve because economists trip over each

1716
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:21,400
Speaker 2: other not to be understood. Basically, it says you can

1717
01:41:21,439 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 2: either have high inflation.

1718
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:26,160
Speaker 1: And low.

1719
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:32,080
Speaker 2: Low unemployment, or high unemployment and lower inflation. The idea

1720
01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 2: is that when the economy goes bad, people are out

1721
01:41:35,320 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 2: of work, they'll work for less.

1722
01:41:37,160 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 3: But you know, unemployment goes up, prices go down.

1723
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:45,960
Speaker 2: But the thing is it's a correlation, it's not a causation,

1724
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 2: which to say, many times you can have high inflation

1725
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:52,680
Speaker 2: and high unemployment.

1726
01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 3: Do you remember the late seventies? A lot of us don't.

1727
01:41:58,960 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 3: A lot of us don't.

1728
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:06,679
Speaker 2: And so if our minimum wage is tied to inflation,

1729
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 2: and in Colorado it's in the friggin constitution here, you

1730
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:16,320
Speaker 2: might have hyperinflation. Prices need to mandate a fifty an

1731
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:22,560
Speaker 2: hour minimum wage, but nobody can pay it, and so

1732
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:28,639
Speaker 2: becomes this terrible cycle downward spiral until we have economic ruin.

1733
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful thing. Let's go to the phones and

1734
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 3: talk to James. James, Welcome. You're with John Caldera.

1735
01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:38,000
Speaker 2: John.

1736
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:40,719
Speaker 9: It's really nice to hear you on the air again.

1737
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:42,240
Speaker 3: Oh it's good to be here.

1738
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:46,160
Speaker 9: I've been in Bolder since the seventies.

1739
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:50,400
Speaker 2: I've been in Bolder since the seventies, in Colorado since

1740
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:51,960
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy or something like that.

1741
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, I remember to get old days two.

1742
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:00,320
Speaker 9: But you know, we had we had those times where

1743
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:03,360
Speaker 9: things were a little bit tougher. And I'm just I'm

1744
01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:07,240
Speaker 9: almost laughing now because it's like it's absurd.

1745
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:07,680
Speaker 4: You know.

1746
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:09,760
Speaker 9: It's like, come on, you know, I can go to

1747
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:13,240
Speaker 9: the grocery store and buy lobster tales for six bucks.

1748
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:15,559
Speaker 9: What am I gonna do? You go to a restaurant

1749
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:20,280
Speaker 9: and pay seventy dollars. It's like all this thing after Biden,

1750
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:22,599
Speaker 9: what has come up to is like I just don't

1751
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:25,479
Speaker 9: go out anymore. I'm really good chef and I make

1752
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 9: it at home.

1753
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,000
Speaker 3: A lot of people are turning that way even I'm

1754
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:30,320
Speaker 3: starting to do that now.

1755
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:32,960
Speaker 2: Manya is a guy. I can cook steaks. I think

1756
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:38,760
Speaker 2: it's in our blood somehow. A grill, you can make

1757
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:41,719
Speaker 2: great steaks. That's about it. I can make great steaks,

1758
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 2: and I can scramble eggs. Some My family's cholesterol level

1759
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:46,679
Speaker 2: is going through the roof.

1760
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 9: But hey, let me make My wife does the dishes

1761
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,120
Speaker 9: and the laundry, and I do the shot thing and

1762
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:59,240
Speaker 9: the chefs. And so when we go out, it's when

1763
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:02,840
Speaker 9: we travel because you don't you know the choice or win.

1764
01:44:03,120 --> 01:44:04,080
Speaker 2: Sometimes you miss.

1765
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:06,000
Speaker 3: You're just too beat.

1766
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:09,040
Speaker 2: And what I really miss. You've been around in Boulder

1767
01:44:09,120 --> 01:44:13,640
Speaker 2: long enough I miss. I called them eateries, places you

1768
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:17,840
Speaker 2: could go and just have a cheap but good meal.

1769
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:21,200
Speaker 2: There was a well Mexican restaurant. Used to go to

1770
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 2: Lostreleda and it costs nothing, and you fill up in

1771
01:44:24,840 --> 01:44:27,400
Speaker 2: chips and salt and get some chili Reanno's. You get

1772
01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:29,800
Speaker 2: a couple of dollar beers and you feed your family

1773
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:33,439
Speaker 2: and it's it's not high dining, but they bring the

1774
01:44:33,479 --> 01:44:37,280
Speaker 2: food to you and and clean up afterwards. It was like,

1775
01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:41,839
Speaker 2: this was good. Those restaurants just don't exist anymore.

1776
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:46,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's like, you know, Hey, three five dollars breakfast.

1777
01:44:46,160 --> 01:44:48,080
Speaker 9: I mean there's four or five places in Boulder. I

1778
01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:50,360
Speaker 9: used to go to Hey, and that was I mean,

1779
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:52,560
Speaker 9: I remember the two dollars breakfast, and now it's like

1780
01:44:52,800 --> 01:44:54,559
Speaker 9: you go to a breakfast, it's fourteen bucks.

1781
01:44:55,280 --> 01:44:56,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, breakfast especially.

1782
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:00,360
Speaker 9: I can take it rule my own coff puss of

1783
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:00,800
Speaker 9: the lunch.

1784
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:02,360
Speaker 3: Hey, have yourself a great day.

1785
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:04,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna squeeze on one more call here before we

1786
01:45:04,120 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 2: get to go. Hey, Phil, welcome, you're with John KELDERA Hello,

1787
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:11,639
Speaker 2: Hello Phil, Hello.

1788
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:16,240
Speaker 11: I have a Downdo son, just like Jihon does. And

1789
01:45:16,600 --> 01:45:20,280
Speaker 11: he had up to seven pip time jobs each week.

1790
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:26,680
Speaker 11: And uh really merchants. Merchants would say, uh, they like

1791
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:29,719
Speaker 11: coming here because your son, and there is here another

1792
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:35,920
Speaker 11: down syndrome. People are at different businesses. And in fact,

1793
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:39,080
Speaker 11: my son worked at a did light housekeeping at a

1794
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:43,559
Speaker 11: dance studio and he lost his leg a few years ago,

1795
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,280
Speaker 11: so I'd go for him that he was teaching the

1796
01:45:46,360 --> 01:45:47,920
Speaker 11: one step anyway.

1797
01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:51,320
Speaker 5: But anyway, then then a.

1798
01:45:51,400 --> 01:45:54,280
Speaker 11: Senator came to me and said, we did a wonderful thing.

1799
01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:57,920
Speaker 11: We did a wonderful thing. From now on, your son

1800
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:00,920
Speaker 11: has to get minimum wage. You don't, of course, you

1801
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:04,599
Speaker 11: know how many jobs my son has now zero? Oh,

1802
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:09,120
Speaker 11: and they just they just have no clue what they've done.

1803
01:46:09,960 --> 01:46:12,800
Speaker 3: And it stop stop there for a second film because

1804
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:14,040
Speaker 3: you and I feel the same pain.

1805
01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:19,120
Speaker 2: What a hateful thing to do to your son, to

1806
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:22,360
Speaker 2: take away the jobs that he had, and then to

1807
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:26,880
Speaker 2: patch yourself on the back for ruining lives like like

1808
01:46:27,040 --> 01:46:29,800
Speaker 2: my son and your son. And they think they're doing

1809
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:30,840
Speaker 2: something that's great.

1810
01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:34,360
Speaker 11: Our sons don't need the money, they need the job

1811
01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:39,280
Speaker 11: exactly exactly. But anyway, the thing is, I don't think

1812
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:41,960
Speaker 11: they even realize it. No, But you know, I but

1813
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:46,400
Speaker 11: I've often wondered about that. Was a conservative senator that

1814
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:50,120
Speaker 11: said that. But I often wonder if the liberal ones

1815
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 11: but want people like my son to be out of sight.

1816
01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:57,720
Speaker 2: I wonder the same thing. You know.

1817
01:46:57,800 --> 01:46:59,800
Speaker 3: It's one thing, Well, you can volunteer, you and be

1818
01:46:59,880 --> 01:47:00,160
Speaker 3: in the.

1819
01:47:00,280 --> 01:47:04,439
Speaker 2: Back of the house scrubbing dishes. No, I want my

1820
01:47:04,600 --> 01:47:07,639
Speaker 2: son in the front of the house talking to typical people.

1821
01:47:08,200 --> 01:47:11,080
Speaker 2: I want the world to integrate with my son, and

1822
01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:14,600
Speaker 2: my son to integrate with the world. But but the

1823
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:19,920
Speaker 2: left wants them take it away, put on, put into

1824
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:23,719
Speaker 2: group homes and watching TV all day instead of working.

1825
01:47:25,160 --> 01:47:25,760
Speaker 2: I gotta run.

1826
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:29,519
Speaker 3: Thanks for the call. Hey, I'll be back tomorrow as well.

1827
01:47:29,560 --> 01:47:30,519
Speaker 3: I'm John Caldera.

1828
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 2: Check out Independence Institute, go to thinkfreedom dot org and

1829
01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:36,120
Speaker 2: until then, Think Freedom