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Speaker 1: Well, the rule we've tried to adhere to over the

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Speaker 1: years that this would be one show which would almost

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Speaker 1: exclusively be the.

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Speaker 2: Reside in the toy department.

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Speaker 3: Scenes are rather trivial and silly today for reasons it

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Speaker 3: should be all too obvious. There have been some other

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Speaker 3: occasions where we've deviated from that norm, and today will

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Speaker 3: be clearly one of these days. Sunday Sermons nine until

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Speaker 3: eleven today, Barrero and blakemore with you until then. We

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Speaker 3: have two scheduled guests right now that might change. We

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Speaker 3: might add to that as the program goes on. In

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Speaker 3: about ten minutes or so, former US Attorney Andy Luger

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Speaker 3: is going to join us, and we'll let chat with

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Speaker 3: the former Saint Claut police Blair Anderson, probably about an

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Speaker 3: hour and ten minutes from now, probably about ten to

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Speaker 3: fifteen today. Well, eventually the branch on Brian Kafe in

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Speaker 3: text line might be available to you. Like most of

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Speaker 3: you probably learned, it's been reinforced again through this entire

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Speaker 3: weekend that social media might be a kind of destructive

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Speaker 3: place for you to hang out. In the idea that

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Speaker 3: you know in theory, it's well, it's our it's our

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Speaker 3: new version of the public square.

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Speaker 2: Sounds lofty, sounds vital in.

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Speaker 3: Our way of life, but it gets pretty corrosive pretty

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Speaker 3: quickly and pretty unhealthy once you start going down the

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Speaker 3: doom scrolling road for any length of time.

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Speaker 2: So we'll start with.

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Speaker 3: I want to start, actually with the I hate to

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Speaker 3: use the word because it's overused, but I will because

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Speaker 3: I can't think of a better one. The sort of

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Speaker 3: trauma that I think this town, this metro area feels

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Speaker 3: itself enduring yet again predictable to a certain extent. You

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Speaker 3: don't have to be much of a Monday morning quarterback

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Speaker 3: to believe that the stew that had been cooked up

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Speaker 3: in the Twin Cities in recent weeks was there was

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Speaker 3: a good chance that inevitably it was going to culminate

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Speaker 3: in tragedy that's already happened yet again as of yesterday.

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Speaker 3: And so there's the story what happened yesterday morning, the

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Speaker 3: facts of it, the speculation of it, there's the stuff

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Speaker 3: on the ground in that regard, and then I think

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Speaker 3: for a lot of people there's the larger issue of

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Speaker 3: just processing all of it mentally. I got a lot

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Speaker 3: of text from people around the country, and the word

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Speaker 3: I used over and over again. Was just how exhausting

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Speaker 3: this whole process is because you feel like you're on

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Speaker 3: twenty four to seven alert.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: What we're dealing with, obviously is far less tragic than

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Speaker 3: the loss of life itself.

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Speaker 2: I understand all of that. I think most people will

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Speaker 2: will agree that we.

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Speaker 3: Are still talking about something that we are now I

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Speaker 3: feel like living, not just adily, but by the minute.

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Speaker 3: And everybody then has to make their decision in terms

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Speaker 3: of what they do with that.

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Speaker 2: Do they run from it, do they run at it?

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Speaker 3: How do they go about how does each of us

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Speaker 3: go about in our daily lives, even trying to reconcile

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Speaker 3: the fact that everything else that we do, the most

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Speaker 3: mundane things that we do each day, you know, sleep, eat, breathe,

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Speaker 3: spend time with loved ones, whatever the case may be,

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Speaker 3: seems obviously utterly trivial compared to what else we're dealing with.

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Speaker 2: And it does feel as if this area.

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Speaker 3: I can't I guess I can't think of another metropolitan

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Speaker 3: area if you go all the way back to George Floyd,

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Speaker 3: so that's what five and a half, six years ago, whatever,

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's another area in the country.

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Speaker 2: That has had to deal with.

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Speaker 3: The sort of almost daily trauma that we have, debate

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Speaker 3: that we have, polarization that we have. You could say

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Speaker 3: all these are national issues, but they've been brought home

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Speaker 3: here in a way that I don't think another metropolitan

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Speaker 3: area can match. And I know that's what based on

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Speaker 3: some of the emails I get, in texts I get,

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Speaker 3: we'll get that people are grappling with I also say

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Speaker 3: that I had a conversation with off air via text

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Speaker 3: with with John Krazinski, Johnny Athletic. We're in a really

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Speaker 3: frightening face where we talked a little bit about this

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Speaker 3: on Friday. People, in their righteous and a lot of

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Speaker 3: this indignation is righteous. In their righteous indignation, assign themselves

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Speaker 3: as the arbiters of how all the other individuals they

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Speaker 3: are watching must process what has taken place, must talk

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Speaker 3: about what's taking place. It's always been convenient when we

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Speaker 3: have these arbiters, these self appointed arbiters, who get to

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Speaker 3: decide for everyone else. It's always I think, reassuring when

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Speaker 3: you're in that position to decide for other people. I'm

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Speaker 3: watching you, you go down this road instead of this road.

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Speaker 3: I'll write it all down and I will notice exactly that.

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Speaker 3: And of course the beauty of it for those who

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Speaker 3: self appoint is that they don't feel like they have

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Speaker 3: to worry because no one is aiming that same hammer

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Speaker 3: or brandishing, I guess would be the better term, that

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Speaker 3: same hammer at them. It's convenient, and all I can

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Speaker 3: tell you is none of that, None of those threats

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Speaker 3: get us anywhere. In my opinion, we will attempt to

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Speaker 3: follow this story today. I will tell you upfront, as

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Speaker 3: someone who says always tries to put this parenthetical statement

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Speaker 3: early in what we discuss is there may be more

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Speaker 3: information that comes becomes available to us over a period

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Speaker 3: of time. Adjudicating this or any other case this early

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Speaker 3: is dangerous. We're also allowed to see, open our eyes

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Speaker 3: and see and look and observe, and based on everything

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Speaker 3: I have seen and heard to this point, I will

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Speaker 3: say that even more than the last killing, this was

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Speaker 3: a tragedy that did not, in any way, shape or

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Speaker 3: form had to happen, not even close to having to happen.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what Andy Lueger will say about that.

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Speaker 3: He's very measured, not because he doesn't have opinions, but

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Speaker 3: because he also tries to believe in following the story.

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Speaker 3: Don't know where the chief is going to be on this.

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Speaker 3: We've texted some I'm not sure. I know a lot

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Speaker 3: of you have strong opinions. Some of them may mirror

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Speaker 3: exactly mine. The tragedy as it played out, in my opinion,

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Speaker 3: on the basis of what we know right now, was

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Speaker 3: utterly and completely avoidable with a better brand of I

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Speaker 3: was about to say law enforcement, but again, this is ice.

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Speaker 3: It's a different category, a different form of ice enforcement.

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Speaker 3: That's my honest opinion. And we'll try to develop that

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Speaker 3: with a little more detail based on again, what we

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Speaker 3: at least have, what leads we have, what hints we have,

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Speaker 3: what video evidence has been passed along. That's not the

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Speaker 3: final evidence. Nothing is being adjudicated in a courtroom. We're

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Speaker 3: not hearing from any attorneys, none of it's being argued

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Speaker 3: that way, and that's why I don't think we can

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Speaker 3: ever have that finalite. But that's what I believe and

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Speaker 3: what I worry about is and this is we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about with Andy Lueger. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: we get out of it. I don't know how we

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Speaker 3: get out of the rabbit hole we're in. We've got

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Speaker 3: two utterly and completely different visions of quite frankly, this

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Speaker 3: country and the way it should operate with a million

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Speaker 3: tentacles off of that, and there's been a lot of

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Speaker 3: talk about, well, we need some sort of a negotiated

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Speaker 3: cease fire. Think about that cease fire. But I don't

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Speaker 3: know how, given the two versions of the story we're hearing,

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Speaker 3: and more importantly, the two different political philosophies that are

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Speaker 3: at odds with each other, I don't have any idea

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Speaker 3: how we possibly get there.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: There may be a clue or two offered regarding even

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Speaker 3: some Republicans, including one Republican US Senator who has described

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Speaker 3: what's taking place in Minneapolis as disturbing. Even some Republicans

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Speaker 3: are saying, what are we doing?

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Speaker 2: Is that enough? Hard to say, but at least maybe

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Speaker 2: some ray.

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Speaker 3: Of hope at a time where I'm having a hard

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Speaker 3: time having much confidence that we couldn't be here again

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Speaker 3: in a week or tomorrow or the next day talking

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Speaker 3: about another tragedy that ends in either serious injury or death.

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Speaker 3: Bratsch on Brian Kafan text line is open. We'll get

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Speaker 3: an early break with chat with former US Attorney Andy

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Speaker 3: Lueger when he joins US.

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Speaker 2: Next stays.

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Speaker 3: Alex Jeffrey Petti, thirty seven year old Minneapolis resident, the

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Speaker 3: individual who was killed by federal agents during immigration enforcement.

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Speaker 2: In South Minneapolis.

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Speaker 3: That's the story that we're dealing with today and the

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Speaker 3: larger ramifications that all come out of that latest, very

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Speaker 3: tragic development. Andy Luger has been with US many times

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Speaker 3: over recent years, former Minnesota US attorney. He has kind

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Speaker 3: of enough to join us now via the Connectico Water

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Speaker 3: Systems Hotline.

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Speaker 2: Andy, thanks for the time. How do we begin here?

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Speaker 4: For you?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess I'll throw you the toss up

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Speaker 3: question of what you observed yesterday?

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Speaker 2: What do you think happened yesterday morning in South Minneapolis.

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Speaker 4: Thanks? Thanks Dan, Thanks for having me. As we've talked

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Speaker 4: about before with the shooting of Renee Good, first things first,

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Speaker 4: there has to be a full investigation of the circumstances,

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Speaker 4: what happened, all the videos, the eyewitness accounts. Some of

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Speaker 4: that will happen. I used to say in the good

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Speaker 4: old days that that will happen and we'll get the

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Speaker 4: facts out. It's less certain right now because of the

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Speaker 4: way these are being conducted, but I do know that

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Speaker 4: experts from the BCA have begun, and you and I

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Speaker 4: and everybody listening can watch the videos wherever one finds them,

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Speaker 4: and they're if you Here's the question that I've been

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Speaker 4: asking of myself and others about this incident, this tragedy,

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Speaker 4: and we're in a good tragedy and this entire biasco

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Speaker 4: of Operation Metro Surge. Why is this even happening? The

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Speaker 4: conclusion of a thorough investigation may go, may come up

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Speaker 4: with different answers. It looks bad to me just watching

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Speaker 4: the video in terms of the way law enforcement talks

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Speaker 4: about it, and the terminology may not be appealing to

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Speaker 4: to listeners. But ultimately what people say is it a

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Speaker 4: good shooter or bad shoot? And a good shoot not

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Speaker 4: meaning where anybody's glad it happened, but that it's legal

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Speaker 4: and justified in broad terms. You know, I've investigated a

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Speaker 4: number of these, I think maybe four over my terms

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Speaker 4: as US attorney, you know, probably watching videos or I

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Speaker 4: mean I sat at my desk one day for an

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Speaker 4: entire day watching over and over again the video of

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Speaker 4: the Falando Castiel shooting and others. And so if it's

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Speaker 4: determined that somehow it was justified fear for life, whatever

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Speaker 4: it is you have to step back and add the

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Speaker 4: broader question because we don't have a good answer for

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Speaker 4: why on Earth all of these agents are even here.

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Speaker 4: And I can give some perspective on that if it

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Speaker 4: would be helpful.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we'll keep going down that road, because I well,

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Speaker 3: because there's the there is obvious. I think what you're

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Speaker 3: saying is there's two pieces to this immediately. One is

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Speaker 3: regarding analyzing this shooting, this killing ye, and then there

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Speaker 3: are the larger questions surrounding it that we have talked

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Speaker 3: about a lot on this show. But see, before you

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Speaker 3: get into that, here's to me the depressing part. We

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Speaker 3: have such a fundamental disagreement between Washington and here when

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Speaker 3: it comes to immigration, any illegal immigration, that I guess

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Speaker 3: I'm having a hard time figuring out. You know, people

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Speaker 3: can talk about truces and you know, meeting face to

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Speaker 3: face and all of those things, but I just don't

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Speaker 3: see that there's any reason to think that anything rational

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Speaker 3: like that is likely to happen if there's such a

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Speaker 3: fundamental disagreement that. By the way, so far, Andy, it

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Speaker 3: seems to indicate the more you push I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: the the US government, the more you push back on

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Speaker 3: our efforts to do what by God we were elected

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: We'll send in another thousand.

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Speaker 3: That's my fear is that all we are in an

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Speaker 3: endless escalation with no particular end insight.

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Speaker 4: I fully agree, and I come at this from the

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Speaker 4: following perspective that may be cut through some of that.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it's not been articulated as far as

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Speaker 4: I can hear in the public debate, because it's a

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Speaker 4: little inside baseball, but in some ways it isn't. You

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Speaker 4: have local, state, et cetera. Law enforcement in Minnesota, the FBI,

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Speaker 4: at FDA, all law enforcement agencies have a leader in Minnesota.

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Speaker 4: They're called the Special Agent in Charge, Special Agent in

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Speaker 4: Charge of Minnesota for the FBI, the DEA, the ATF

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Speaker 4: and all the federal agencies including IEMS. By the way

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Speaker 4: you have and they're put in every state pretty much

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Speaker 4: sometimes is overlap to work with the locals and the state.

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Speaker 4: We have a BCA and the state troopers, et cetera,

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Speaker 4: and all of whom are charged with working with the

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Speaker 4: US Attorney who's appointed by the President but placed in

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Speaker 4: a state to come up with local priorities for law enforcement.

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Speaker 4: And every US attorney It's one of the first things

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Speaker 4: you do on the job. Every US attorney, Republican, Democrat, whatever,

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Speaker 4: does that. And so what you try to do and

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Speaker 4: if you're if you're fortunate enoughing that doesn't always work

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Speaker 4: in every state. We've had pretty good results here is

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Speaker 4: build a consensus. What are our needs, what are our problems?

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Speaker 4: As a US attorney, you then tell Washington essentially, this

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Speaker 4: is what we're doing in my district. This is what

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Speaker 4: we're doing in my state. You know, we're fighting you know,

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Speaker 4: feeding our future fraud, we're fighting gangs, we're fighting this,

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Speaker 4: we're fighting that. It's different everywhere you go because they

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Speaker 4: may not have a gang problem in you know, Indiana,

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Speaker 4: but we did we do here. And for example, I

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Speaker 4: knew when I was US attorney the first time there

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Speaker 4: were people in places like Philadelphia who were fighting carjacking.

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Speaker 4: That was one of their biggest issues. We didn't have

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Speaker 4: carjacking in Minnesota. So I'd sit in meetings and trugs.

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Speaker 4: You know, that's good, but not where I'm from. That's

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Speaker 4: how it works, and that's the number one thing you're told.

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Speaker 4: And when you talk to people in Washington, you say,

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Speaker 4: is what we're doing and they would always say, well,

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Speaker 4: you know your state, that's why you're there. And frankly,

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Speaker 4: the Republicans were typically better at that because they didn't

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Speaker 4: believe in the control from Washington over the states. You know,

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Speaker 4: Democrats a little differently, But that's basically that's basically your

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Speaker 4: fundamental job that's all been flipped on its head today.

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Speaker 4: And that's really where the problem begins. You're you're not

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Speaker 4: nobody elected anybody to anything to tell every state what

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Speaker 4: to do. I don't believe that because that's just fundamentally

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Speaker 4: against what we had state federal you know, the federalism principles.

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Speaker 4: And so when whenever, and it has happened before, when

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Speaker 4: when Washington tries to impose a vision, you know, on

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Speaker 4: every state in the country, you run into problems because

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Speaker 4: we're not all the same. And so I start there,

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Speaker 4: and then I go to the fact that we don't

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Speaker 4: have an illegal an illegal immigrant crime wave in Minnesota.

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Speaker 4: And and your readers can be all over the map

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Speaker 4: on how the listeners excuse me on on illegal immigration,

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Speaker 4: and that's fine, we can have that discussion, but that's

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Speaker 4: not the cause of the crime problems in Minnesota. And

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Speaker 4: every single local law enforcement agent will tell it you.

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Speaker 4: We'll tell you that no one said to me when

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Speaker 4: I was a US attorney, or by predecessors, or in

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Speaker 4: the ten months side left when Joe Thompson was after

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Speaker 4: Joe Thompson was a charge, nobody raised their head and said,

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Speaker 4: you know, ge Andy. Because we had meeting hundreds of

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Speaker 4: hours of meetings to come up with our strategies and

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Speaker 4: to agree on our challenges in Minnesota, not one person

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Speaker 4: ever said, you know what, I think our real problem

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Speaker 4: is crime. The worst of the worst in Minnesota are

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Speaker 4: illegal immigrants committing crime that never happened. And again, politically,

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Speaker 4: we can agree or disagree on how we what we

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Speaker 4: think the priority of illegal immigration is. It's not the

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Speaker 4: driver of crime in Minnesota. It is and has been

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Speaker 4: a bigger driver of crime in other states Texas, Florida, Arizona.

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Speaker 4: They'll tell you differently that I just did. But of

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Speaker 4: all the places in America to focus a law enforcement

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Speaker 4: operation on illegal immigration, Minnesota would be one of the last.

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Speaker 4: I'll pause the air.

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Speaker 2: Dam Yeah. And in fact, I wish I have by

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Speaker 2: my desk.

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Speaker 3: A story that I've been actually saving, a news story

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Speaker 3: from the Wall Street Journal from last week as I

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Speaker 3: recall it that I thought did a really good, measured, detached,

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Speaker 3: unemotional layout of much of what you're discussing here in

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Speaker 3: terms of what the numbers actually showed.

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Speaker 2: But here's if we're if we're going to get to

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Speaker 2: the nitty gritty.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've learned on this show that there's danger

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Speaker 3: in spending too.

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Speaker 2: Much time on texts.

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Speaker 3: However, a couple of texts that have just come in

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Speaker 3: in the last few minutes I think capture a belief

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Speaker 3: that we have to talk about and maybe even respond to.

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Speaker 3: And this is I think a big part of the problem.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you.

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Speaker 3: I'll give you one of them. All the illegals must go.

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Speaker 3: We didn't open the border for four years. They must

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Speaker 3: they all must go, all of them. That sentiment, I

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Speaker 3: don't know how large it is in Minnesota, but that

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Speaker 3: sentiment exists. So what do we say to those individuals

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Speaker 3: who say, by God, the borders were too open, which,

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Speaker 3: by the way, I agreed under Biden, I thought they were.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was badly mishandling. Hell, you had people

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Speaker 3: from the Obama administration who worked and it said it's

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Speaker 3: not sustainable how many people were letting in. But the

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Speaker 3: assumption is, well, if you believe that's true, then you

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Speaker 3: must understand all of these severe measures must be you know,

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Speaker 3: must be laid out and must be take must take

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Speaker 3: place in order to basically bring us back to zero.

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Speaker 4: Good. And I'm glad you raised that, and I'm glad

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Speaker 4: the person texted that, and I agree with I assume

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Speaker 4: the premise of his text and your point that you know,

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Speaker 4: the Biden administration failed us on that. I agree, Uh,

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Speaker 4: open whatever you call it, borders or more open borders

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Speaker 4: was a failure and a mistake, and I disagree with it. However,

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Speaker 4: and I'll say, let me address the person who sent

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Speaker 4: this text. All people must go. That's great as a sentiment,

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Speaker 4: that's great as a desire, and we can argue it

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Speaker 4: back and forth as to what that really means. Here's

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Speaker 4: the problem, any And I wish I could talk to

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Speaker 4: this person directly, but I'll talk to everybody. Any law

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Speaker 4: enforcement operation, and removing illegal immigrants is a law enforcement operation.

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Speaker 4: Any law enforcement operation that you do has to be

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Speaker 4: weighed the benefits versus the costs. We do that all

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Speaker 4: the time. And when we were going after gangs, it's like,

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Speaker 4: do we go after this guy or this guy? What's

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Speaker 4: the risk if we go over after that guy instead

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Speaker 4: of this guy. Those are the detailed law enforcement discussions

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Speaker 4: that have to happen because your job is to reduce crime.

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Speaker 4: If you want to take it in this context, quote

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Speaker 4: unquote get rid of the illegal immigrants? At what cost

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Speaker 4: and at what benefit? And what are the resources required

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Speaker 4: to do it? So you can't I mean, it's great

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Speaker 4: to say that, and you can believe that to be

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Speaker 4: something that's a goal. Then the question is how do

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Speaker 4: you do it, what does it take, what are the costs?

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Speaker 4: And the final piece is what honor't you doing while

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Speaker 4: you're doing that? In order to accomplish the removal of

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Speaker 4: one thousand, two thousand, five hundred whatever the number is

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Speaker 4: of people who are in Minneapolis or in Minnesota illegally,

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Speaker 4: do you have to do a number of things When

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Speaker 4: you have to find them, do you have to get them,

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Speaker 4: you have to detain them? Do you have to be

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Speaker 4: accurate in who you are detaining and going after? And

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Speaker 4: you have to do it in a way that doesn't

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Speaker 4: cause or at least you minimize the risk to the

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Speaker 4: rest of the citizens. So and by the way, you

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Speaker 4: need a lot of federal resources. It's not just ice.

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Speaker 4: FBI's been detailed to do this. Atf has been detailed

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Speaker 4: to do this, DEEA has been detailed to do this,

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Speaker 4: And so they're not what are you not doing while

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Speaker 4: you're going It's not like presto, we press a button

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Speaker 4: and all these illegal immigrants who came in are going

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Speaker 4: to be gone. It's what does it take to do

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Speaker 4: it and what honoring you doing. So here's an example.

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Speaker 4: Anybody who's detained can have a lawyer file a habea's

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Speaker 4: position in court to get them a lawyer find out

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Speaker 4: the facts of how they got here. Most of these

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Speaker 4: people didn't come here in the last four years under Biden.

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Speaker 4: Without disagreeing with the premise, the fact of the matter

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Speaker 4: is you got the Baker who's been here twenty years.

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Speaker 4: So if they're not committing crimes, they're not violent, they're

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Speaker 4: living here, that a lot, paying taxes, whatever is you

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Speaker 4: still want them gone, that's fine, But that means at

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Speaker 4: the same time, if you've noticed we're not bringing new

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Speaker 4: gang cases, we're not bringing new card jacking cases. We're

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Speaker 4: very very few. That's a price that we pay. The

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Speaker 4: real crime that's happening in Minneapolis and in Minnesota, the

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Speaker 4: attention and the resources that have been diverted really entirely

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Speaker 4: to this, and instead we've got, you know, protesters being prosecuted.

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Speaker 4: Now you're going to have dozens of protesters being prosecuted

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Speaker 4: in federal court. You've got that whole church thing that happened,

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Speaker 4: a lot of attention to that. We're going to investigate

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Speaker 4: their politicians, who are the elected elected officials who disagree

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Speaker 4: with this. That's where all the focus is right now

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Speaker 4: in federal court, my old office, that's what they're doing.

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Speaker 4: I thought people like this, this texture, would have thought,

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Speaker 4: we want to uncover as much of that billion dollars

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Speaker 4: in fraud as we can. Well, that's not happening. We're

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Speaker 4: investigating victims of shootings, not shooters. So when you set

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Speaker 4: a priority as a sort of severe, is what the

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Speaker 4: texture just said. There's a lot that follows from that

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Speaker 4: that maybe everybody didn't think about when this began.

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Speaker 3: Nine five two guy writes they are here to arrest

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Speaker 3: hard criminals. They've arrested like ten thousand of the worst

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Speaker 3: of the worst in Minnesota. What is wrong with that?

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Speaker 3: Insane is what he writes. That number has been thrown

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Speaker 3: a lot around a lot. Do we have any actual

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Speaker 3: evidence that we, with this surge, ICE has arrested something

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Speaker 3: like ten thousand of the worst of the worst criminals

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Speaker 3: in Minnesota.

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Speaker 4: It's false, and I'm sorry to say that to the

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Speaker 4: texture and I don't say I really want this to

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Speaker 4: be as nonpartisan as possible. This is law enforcement. The

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Speaker 4: term worst of the worst, which I've never liked, but

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Speaker 4: everybody uses, and I used it refers to typically the

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Speaker 4: people who are creating the worst crimes in your state,

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Speaker 4: because people use it nationally. So the first thing I

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Speaker 4: did as US Attorney was convene meetings of law enforcement

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Speaker 4: and to say, I want the worst of the worst.

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Speaker 4: We had a crime wave at the time twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: two that was out of control, and it's gotten under control,

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Speaker 4: but it's still too high. And I said, who's causing

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Speaker 4: this crime? Who's causing this harm? And you get lists

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Speaker 4: of names, and this is what sort of we don't

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Speaker 4: have from ICE that our local law enforcement leaders. If

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Speaker 4: you read between the lines of the press conference that Axel,

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Speaker 4: Henry and Brewley has you know last week, it's pretty

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Speaker 4: simple how you do this, and everybody does it around

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Speaker 4: the country. Without a lot of inflammatory rhetoric. You literally

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Speaker 4: sit down as law enforcement leader's job is to keep

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Speaker 4: people safe, including the person who just texted in. And

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Speaker 4: so I said, I want names. I want the people

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Speaker 4: who are the shooters, the carjackers, the gang bangers, who's

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Speaker 4: doing this to our community? And you get the names

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Speaker 4: and then you work through, so how can we build

436
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 4: air tight federal criminal cases if possible, or otherwise staatecases

437
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: against these people, because you're telling me, as professionals who

438
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 4: live here and work here, this is who's causing the harm.

439
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 4: None of those people were illegal immigrants. I got lists

440
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: upon lists upon lists of names. I reviewed the files

441
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: along with the great prosecutors in the office, and we

442
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 4: set out on a strategy to indict all of them.

443
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 4: Didn't get to all of them. They were getting to more.

444
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 4: After I left it, I said it was going to

445
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 4: take five years. I had three. None of those people

446
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 4: were illegal immigrants. What they are claiming are the worst

447
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 4: of the worst. And this is not a definition that

448
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 4: anybody has used before, at least in my experience. Is

449
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 4: maybe ten years ago in Ecuador, somebody had a rape conviction,

450
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 4: and I'm not in favor of that. They are convicted.

451
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 4: The break good for them. Somehow they found their way

452
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 4: here and they're living here illegally. They haven't raped anybody

453
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 4: in Minnesota. It doesn't make them a good person, and

454
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 4: I'm all for deporting them, but that's the goal. But

455
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 4: describing them as the worst of the worst is a

456
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 4: scary way of getting people riled up. Many of them,

457
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 4: most of them are not committing crimes here and certainly

458
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 4: not driving the violence that all of us want to

459
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 4: bring down in Minnesota. I hope that makes some sense.

460
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: Then we're chatting with former US Attorney Andy Lueger.

461
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 5: You are.

462
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: Someone You're very connected obviously, and you've been at your

463
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 3: experienced here and you, i know, the last twenty four

464
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: hours talk to a lot of people, and I'm curious

465
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 3: if you can, without obviously giving away anything, if you

466
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: can give us any sense of what, constructively speaking, or

467
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: at least strategically speaking, might be going on behind the

468
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 3: scenes here to try to find some kind of either

469
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: short term or you know, hopefully as well long term answer.

470
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: Can you speak to that at.

471
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 4: All, I'll speak to You're correct, there are lots of discussions,

472
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 4: got things. It's been going on for the last couple

473
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 4: of weeks. I have some role in it, maybe more. Now.

474
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 4: My view is this going back to a couple of

475
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 4: your texts, rather than talking about you know, ten thousand

476
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 4: and five thousand, whatever worse or the worst this it

477
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 4: becomes meaningless unless you make it specific. And I think

478
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 4: this is what local law enforcement would like because it's

479
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: kind of what. There's professional law enforcement and then there's

480
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 4: just other stuff professional law enforcement. It really operates along

481
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 4: the lines that I just talked about. I could sit

482
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 4: with the police chief of Saint Paul or the police

483
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 4: chief of Brooklyn Park and they would say to me, look,

484
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 4: you know, we don't have the problems Minneapolis does, but

485
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 4: here are our problems. Here are ore twenty people who

486
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 4: just career offenders, you know, worst of the worst in

487
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 4: our neighborhood. Can you help us with those? And then

488
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 4: you pair them with an ATF agent or an FBI agent.

489
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 4: We go and we make a case. I think that

490
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 4: model works. If you have aggressive prosecutors, aggressive law enforcement,

491
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 4: you can take this stuff down. Why not have ICE?

492
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 4: And I worked with ICE, I got along with ICE.

493
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 4: The ICE leadership in Minnesota was just fine. Let's sit

494
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 4: down with a realistic list of who you would describe

495
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 4: as the worst of the worst, that maybe it is

496
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 4: the guy with the rape convictiondor I wouldn't describe that

497
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 4: person as the worst and the worst. I describe them

498
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 4: as a rapist from Ecuador. But you want to get

499
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 4: that person out of here. Let's get that person out

500
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 4: of here. Let's find a professional, calm, realistic law enforcement

501
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 4: way to do it that doesn't involve this roaming of

502
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,439
Speaker 4: the streets and pulling people out of cars. That's that's

503
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 4: totally foreign to real law enforcement. Let's just pick those people,

504
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 4: let's find them, Let's get them and come up with

505
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 4: a method of doing this peacefully and without violing anybody's rights.

506
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 4: That's sort of a return to normal law enforcement with

507
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 4: a focus on immigration. Find But we don't need three

508
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 4: thousand people. This is a show. This is a show

509
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 4: that's imposed on the state of Minnesota by Washington for

510
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 4: no real law enforcement reason. That's my statement as somebody

511
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 4: who spent a good chugg career in law enforcement. You

512
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 4: can agree with it or disagree with it, but that's

513
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 4: to me a way out of this.

514
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 3: Do we not also have some evidence about the show

515
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 3: aspect of this? When I think as of yesterday, one

516
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 3: of the you call it requests maybe demands from the

517
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: Trump administration, had to do with wanting Minnesota voter roles.

518
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: What does that, whatever you think of that whole issue,

519
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: what does that have to do with this search.

520
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 2: If this isn't a show.

521
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 4: Nothing, nothing, it has nothing to do with this search.

522
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 4: It should have nothing to do with this search, just

523
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 4: like the premise that the fraud cases, you know, involving

524
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 4: mostly Somolument and Stan's has something to do with it.

525
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 4: Because I think if you go back to the beginning,

526
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 4: and it's hard with all these episodes, is to figure

527
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 4: out where did this start? Whose idea was? It sort

528
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: of began justified by the need to investigate fraud, and

529
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 4: we were told we were going to get agents and

530
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 4: people were going to come here because of our fraud problem.

531
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 4: And I have not talked to Joe Thompson or of

532
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 4: my former colleagues about this because I don't want them

533
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 4: to tell me anything they don't want to make public.

534
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 4: And I haven't asked, they haven't said. But I can

535
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 4: imagine how frustrating it has been to have people take

536
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 4: your good work, building really important, strong cases and then

537
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 4: all of a sudden it becomes an immigration issue. Ninety

538
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 4: nine percent of the people we prosecuted and feeding our future,

539
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 4: maybe one hundred, but certainly ninety nine. We're all Minnesota residents,

540
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 4: Minnesota side and citizens. They are of Somali descent, and

541
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 4: that's an important issue you and I have talked about

542
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 4: and needs to be addressed. But it has nothing to

543
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 4: do with illegal immigration. And when you start conflating all

544
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 4: these things and putting it into one pot to greve,

545
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: it loses any meaning, any real meaning. And again coming

546
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 4: back to law enforcement, all the people that were making

547
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 4: those cases, who are dedicated public servants, not politicians, have

548
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 4: now left and have been fired by this administration.

549
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: Let's finish with this.

550
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: Let's get back to the case itself yesterday, the shooting itself.

551
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: I understand because you've trained me. Other people we've had

552
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 3: on this show over the years with legal backgrounds have

553
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: trained me to try to be deliberate, no matter how

554
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 3: hot emotions might run in some cases very understandably. But

555
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 3: I will tell you, on the basis of what I

556
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 3: have seen, I can't get past one aspect of the video,

557
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: and that is what appears to be in the scrum

558
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: one of the ice agents removing the perceived threat the gun,

559
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: bring it out away from the scrum, at which point

560
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 3: then the shooting starts. I can't get past that that

561
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 3: if the whole deal is we've got to neutralize the threat,

562
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: and the threat is neutralized by the removal of the gun,

563
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 3: how can what follow possibly be justified.

564
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 4: I won't go through the potential justifications because I want

565
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 4: to hear ultimately what the agents involved have to say.

566
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 4: But there are because I've investigated a number of beats

567
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 4: and I've heard from the officers involved, and for those

568
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 4: who are on the other end of the spectrum politically

569
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 4: or ideologically, I'm not justified anything. I'm one of the

570
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 4: goals of the investigator or the prosecutor. Your role I

571
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 4: played in the past is to stay objective throughout the investigation.

572
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 4: From a prosecutor or investigator's perspective, the worst thing you

573
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: can do is approach something with what we call confirmation bias,

574
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 4: so you see what you want to see to draw

575
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,479
Speaker 4: a conclusion you want to draw that doesn't apply to you.

576
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 4: You do whatever you want, and every citizen can do that.

577
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 4: But trained as I have been, to avoid reaching conclusions

578
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 4: until I understand the fact I agree with you, that's troubling.

579
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: There are scenarios in which you can imagine the fear remaining.

580
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 4: And I won't go through all of the r thos

581
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 4: because again we got to hear the agents themselves. So

582
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 4: yet this is a troubling shoot. It is tragic, and

583
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 4: I say troubling because I'm trying to put my prosecutor

584
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 4: hat on and remain as objective. The first thing that

585
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 4: has to happen is false narratives have to be debunked.

586
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 4: When I did these investigations from the US attorney's position,

587
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 4: false narratives emerge overnight. You know he was doing that

588
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 4: or the officers were doing this. I can name a

589
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 4: bunch of those false narratives and I would call for

590
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 4: everybody to stop. And sometimes people really believed what they saw,

591
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 4: even if what they saw wasn't accurate. So you have

592
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 4: to fight through all the false narratives pro and con

593
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 4: by the way, you know, pro prosecution of the and

594
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 4: com and try to get to the bottom and then

595
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 4: understand under the law was there a justified reasonable fear

596
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 4: for their safety. I'm talking to national experts who I

597
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: rely on and who I trust to are policing experts,

598
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 4: and that's what people are doing in their heads right

599
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 4: now without access to the details. So I ought have

600
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 4: more to say on that as time goes on. But

601
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 4: your right to be concerned, troubled, skeptical, what have you.

602
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 4: I think that the real problem here is that in

603
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 4: this instance, leadership from Washington leaps to conclusions and says

604
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 4: things that turn out to be wildly inaccurate, such as,

605
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 4: you know, renee Good was running over the ran over

606
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 4: the raws who Shotter. We got to get rid of

607
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 4: all that, and unfortunately, you know, particularly with the leadership

608
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 4: of this administration, you're just going to have that people

609
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 4: leap to say things derogatory about the victim, derogatory about

610
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 4: what happened, that has no basis in fact, and we've

611
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 4: already seen that. So get rid of that. Get down

612
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 4: to the basics of did they have a reasonable and

613
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 4: justifiable fear for their safety in the moment that they

614
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 4: were shooting? Hopefully portrayed professionals will get there, and then

615
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 4: we can debate that there.

616
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: All right, I'm very very late. I'll throw this out

617
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 3: as the last one, and this sand is from a Texter. Okay,

618
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 3: does mister Luver believe it is reckless behavior to physically

619
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 3: confront law enforcement while you are carrying a weapon, with

620
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 3: the backdrop of a very tense ongoing situation, and.

621
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 4: In general sense, I would say, Yet here, I don't

622
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 4: know that that's what happened. Yes, you're carrying a weapon

623
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 4: and you go, you know, physically addressed law enforcement. Boy,

624
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 4: that's a problem and you shouldn't do it. I don't

625
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 4: know that that's what happens here. There's I get that,

626
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 4: there's you know, there's interplay between him and law enforcement

627
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 4: when they're trying to pull this woman away. It's complicated,

628
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 4: but there's more to it than what the texture just said.

629
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 4: I'll leave it there.

630
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 3: Well, I'll just add words are important, and I believe

631
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: Christy Nome has already suggested that he was brandishing the weapon.

632
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: That's a very specific word.

633
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 3: And there is no video I've seen that at any

634
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: point indicates he was brandishing the weapon.

635
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 4: That's the stuff we got to debunk and get out

636
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 4: of the conversation as quickly as possible so we can

637
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 4: get to the fact. Yes, like the last texture just raised,

638
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 4: let's get to that stuff and get rid of the

639
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 4: brandishing and the running people over. Let's get rid of

640
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 4: that nonsense and get to the real fact.

641
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 3: Thank you for the extended time. We'll chat during the week.

642
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 3: I'm sure, Thanks Andy.

643
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 4: Thanks that.

644
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 3: Bye bye, Former US attorney Andy Lueger. We're running very late.

645
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 3: We'll try to get caught up. We have a former

646
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: Saint claud policie Blair Anderson coming up in the ten

647
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 3: o'clock hour.

648
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: Don't go away, all.

649
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 3: Right, We'll make this a short segment to get caught

650
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 3: up on our breaks. I want to thank again our

651
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: frequent guest Andy Luger, kind of have to join us

652
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 3: here on a Sunday. We may end up getting him

653
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 3: back sometime later this week as well. Former Saint Claud

654
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 3: police Blair Anderson is going to join in the ten

655
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: o'clock hour of the program. I had reference to Wall

656
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 3: Street Journal news story. This is from what's from their

657
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 3: Saturday Sunday edition January seventeen eighteen, so I think that

658
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: would be a week ago. I want to read a

659
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 3: couple quick things from that as we wrap up the

660
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 3: first hour of the show. In the past twelve months,

661
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 3: the Department of Homeland Security has surged personnel into one

662
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: city at a time with high profile immigration actions, but

663
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: the Minneapolis operation feels different.

664
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: On the ground.

665
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: Some three thousand federal officers are operating in and around

666
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 3: a city of four hundred and thirty thousand, compared with

667
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 3: a few hundred cent to Chicago population of two point

668
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 3: seven million. This past fall, ICE officers here and elsewhere

669
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: under pressure from daily arrest quotas dership has set at

670
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 3: three thousand per day, which we've talked about on this

671
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 3: show several times. Is a sizeable part of the problem

672
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: because by definition, if you've got pressure on that goal,

673
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: you have no choice but to do more than.

674
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: Quote unquote targeted arrests.

675
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: By definition, mathematically it's impossible other than hey, you at

676
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 3: the gas pump, you look kind of different. Give me

677
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: your name, what's your accent? Where's that accent from? But

678
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 3: I digress. Though ICE has never come close to meeting

679
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: that daily goal. Officers are rewarded for making arrests, even

680
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 3: if immigrants they take in our later released. This is

681
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: a news story in the Wall Street Journal. By the way,

682
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 3: this isn't ms NBC. In Minneapolis, those officers are walking

683
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 3: and driving through the largely residential city looking for people

684
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: to arrest, and then coming into close quarters with angry

685
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 3: and organized residents, as if you'd be surprised that there

686
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: might be some folks who might be a little frustrated

687
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 3: and angry by this particular approach. Critics contend Minnesota doesn't

688
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: deserve to be the staging ground for what the DHS

689
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 3: has built is the largest operation in department history. One

690
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 3: of about six out of about six million residents, Minnesota

691
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 3: has about one hundred and thirty thousand who are in

692
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 3: the US illegally, a number on par with Utah, Wisconsin,

693
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 3: in Indiana, and far fewer than New York, Texas, and Florida,

694
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 3: which have not seen comparable enforcement surges. Mexico is the

695
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: most common country of origin for Minnesota's unauthorized immigrants, Mexico

696
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 3: not Somaya, which a lot of our Texters will be

697
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 3: shocked to hear, even if they're willing to believe it,

698
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 3: that federal ground force in Minnesota's arrested more than twenty

699
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 3: five hundred people since late November. That's according to DHS spokespeople,

700
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: though it couldn't be determined how many arrestees were later released.

701
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 3: Part of the government strategy in Minneapolis into arrest refugees

702
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 3: whose legal status, officials are re examining and in some

703
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 3: cases revoking. Not all of those arrested were in the

704
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: country illegally, according.

705
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: To lawyers and advocates as well.

706
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 3: Just some background, some nuggets, reporting nuggets that I think

707
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 3: are worthy of bringing into this conversation. Probably not sexy enough,

708
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 3: probably not shrill enough, but maybe if we can take

709
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 3: a deep breath, helpful to the conversation as to why

710
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 3: so many people are bewildered and confused of how we

711
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 3: get to where we got again yesterday in South Minneapolis.

712
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 3: Our number two is just about upon us a brief pause,

713
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 3: As I said, former Chief Blair Anderson from Saint Cloud

714
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 3: will join and we'll get into some other particulars regarding

715
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 3: what took place yesterday.

716
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: Stay tuned.

717
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 6: You have meddled with the primal forces of make sure.

718
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 4: And you.

719
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 5: Were on tone.

720
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,959
Speaker 3: All right, We're back for the second hour, sermons, Burrow

721
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 3: and blakemore with you till eleven o'clock today. As I

722
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 3: mentioned a couple of times in the first hour, a

723
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: former Saint Clau police Chief Larry Anderson, will be joining us,

724
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: probably with the next segment. Let me get to a

725
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 3: couple of texts that have come into the always volatile

726
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: at times like these. Bradshawn Bryant caffan text line. This

727
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 3: is from six to one to two.

728
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 4: Guy.

729
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 3: I know Andy Luger was appointed by Obama and Biden.

730
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: His comments were remarkably objective this morning six one two

731
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 3: another six to one to two, guy, Dan, you're a coward.

732
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: Have some journalistic integrity and correct the record about Biden's border.

733
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: He had a border.

734
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 3: Bill going through Congress that got killed by the Republicans

735
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 3: at the request of Trump to make Biden's border look bad.

736
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 3: I don't know how often a sixty one two guy

737
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 3: listens to the program. We've covered this a multitude of times,

738
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 3: and that includes the moment when finally, for political reasons

739
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: not the right ones, people got to Joe and said, Joe,

740
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 3: you got to move on this. That at that point,

741
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 3: surely unquestionably, Trump said to his Republican Lickspittles, don't not now.

742
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 3: I need this issue. I want this issue. I've earned

743
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 3: this issue. I'm going to take it. Two things can

744
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 3: be true at the same time. If you are, I

745
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 3: would say to sixty one two guy, if you are

746
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 3: of the belief that that late effort, let's Joe Biden

747
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 3: off the hook for a reckless policy that was criticized

748
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 3: roundly by, among others, I think it was Jay Johnson

749
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 3: and the Obama administration who looked at the numbers at

750
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:15,919
Speaker 3: one point and said, this is ridiculous.

751
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 2: This is not sustained.

752
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 3: Whatever you're trying to do reversing from the previous administration,

753
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 3: this isn't going to work. And if for you that's

754
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 3: enough to say, well, he took he tried to take

755
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 3: care of it late, God bless you. But I don't

756
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 3: think it's I think it's way too convenient and it

757
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 3: doesn't tell the whole story. But if you think we

758
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 3: haven't addressed that before, you don't listen very often. It's

759
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: all a matter how you want to interpret. But for me,

760
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 3: it's not enough to say, well, then Joe Biden's off

761
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 3: the hook.

762
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 2: Can't blame him. He waited too long.

763
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 3: Frankly, he waited so long that politically speaking, he had

764
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 3: less of a chance to get the thing through from

765
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 3: a vote standpoint, And that doesn't absolve him of that responsibility.

766
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 3: We've talked about this before. People on the left get

767
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 3: mad at me for saying, well, why are you so

768
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 3: mad at democrats regarding Trump being reelected. It's Trump's policies.

769
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 3: And what I say is, in part, it's because I

770
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 3: think policies like this, lateness coming to the table on parties,

771
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 3: on policies like this is are what helped to put

772
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 3: Donald J. Trump, the guy you now despise, back in

773
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 3: the White House.

774
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 2: That's the point of that. That's why I've often gone

775
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 2: down that particular road.

776
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 3: All Bland Security has stated they have a goal of

777
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 3: three thousand per day to try to deport or to

778
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 3: deport try to meet previous administrations. If there are two

779
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,959
Speaker 3: point one million illegals in Texas and one point six

780
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 3: in Florida at one hundred and thirty thousand Minnesota wall,

781
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 3: wouldn't they better sure to be declaring war in other

782
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 3: areas in Minneapolis. The answer is yes. We talked about

783
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 3: this earlier. But as Andy Lueger said, and I agree

784
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 3: with him, I don't even think this is taking I

785
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 3: don't think this. I think this is being objective. This

786
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 3: is a show. And in that world, if we're giving

787
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 3: people a show and there's more push the greater the pushback,

788
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 3: the more we're going to push back on No, no, no,

789
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 3: We'll double down on the show.

790
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 2: That's a lot of what this is.

791
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 3: Particularly we find out again, Hey, By, you know why

792
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 3: you want to take care of this day? How about

793
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 3: those voter rules. This is not about conviction. I don't

794
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 3: believe when it comes to the issue of illegals. I

795
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 3: think it's very much performance. We've talked about the degree

796
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 3: to which performance politics is overcoming everything else, and this

797
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 3: is exactly an example of that as far as I'm concerned.

798
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 3: We'll pause here, We'll get a law enforce perspective on

799
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 3: what laid out or what took place yesterday morning, and

800
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: maybe any new information that he might be able to

801
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 3: bring to the table. He has retired now former Saint

802
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 3: Cloud a police se Plaiir Anderson, but he is still local.

803
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 3: He still pays very close attention, and he still has

804
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 3: a lot of sources in law enforcement anong other things

805
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 3: as well. So we'll check in with him, We'll get

806
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 3: to some more texts, and as I said, we'll take

807
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 3: it till about eleven o'clock stay two. Former Sant Cloud

808
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 3: Police sleep Plair Anderson kind of have to join us

809
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 3: here on a Sunday via the Kinnectico Water Systems hotline.

810
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the program. It is it's worked out

811
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 3: this way other than when you join us at the fair.

812
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 3: I guess is that if you feel like we tend

813
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 3: to hear from you or we reach out to you

814
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 3: during times of incredible crisis, right, I guess that's just

815
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 3: kind of comes with what your background is.

816
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:04,800
Speaker 2: Correct.

817
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, Dan, I'd have to answer in the affirmative, and

818
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 6: unfortunately that's happening far more often than any of us

819
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 6: would like.

820
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no question about that.

821
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 5: You know.

822
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 3: I want you to speak to that a little bit.

823
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 3: I'm curious to get your views on this. As someone

824
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 3: who when did you get to the Twin Cities? Remind

825
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: me I should know, I think I do.

826
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 6: Nineteen eighty four, eighty.

827
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 3: Four, okay, so a couple of years ahead of me.

828
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 3: I got here in November of eighty six. So you've

829
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 3: been here over forty years and that way longer.

830
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 6: Than I lived in my hometown.

831
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 3: Exactly it same with me. I've never lived any place

832
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 3: this long. So, leaving aside the case itself, what you

833
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 3: saw yesterday and what we can talk about there, the

834
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 3: question of trauma, which I talked about in the first segment,

835
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 3: that it feels like we have been intermittently living in

836
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 3: that sort of world since George Floyd, since that case,

837
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: since since twenty twenty, and I do start wondering how,

838
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 3: what's sort of the psychological impact on the just the

839
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:19,240
Speaker 3: average resident tends to be over that period of time,

840
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: various crises, various tragedies, et cetera.

841
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 2: What do you can you speak to that? What do

842
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: you think of that?

843
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: As someone who has obviously adopted this town and this

844
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 3: has become home to you.

845
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 6: It's funny you should mention that, Dan, because during the

846
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 6: opening monologue, it was one of the more salient points

847
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 6: that you made, and I actually committed that one to

848
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 6: memory and wrote it down. So here's what I've come

849
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 6: up with. Obviously, right, we're barely exhaling and catching our

850
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 6: collective breadth from the George Floyd murder. And trauma is

851
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 6: a perfect word because what it is manifesting is this

852
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 6: total feeling of help Smith yea. And I say that

853
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 6: as a resident, as a former law enforcement professional, as

854
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 6: as citizen, as a person, as what I like to

855
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 6: believe is a rationally thinking person, and that that I

856
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 6: don't know, Dan, that that's what I see, uh. And

857
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 6: it's also starting to manifest itself in some other ways.

858
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 6: I do appreciate how peaceful most people have been. But

859
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 6: we said it the last time we were talking Dan. Unfortunately,

860
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 6: that was not going to be the last time we

861
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 6: had to visit this issue.

862
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 4: There, here we.

863
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:33,919
Speaker 2: Are, and here we are.

864
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 3: The the the comments from the Trump administration, from the President,

865
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 3: his deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, and Border Patrol

866
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 3: Commander at Large Gregor Gregory Bavino. They have variously described

867
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 3: the victim, the shooting victim pretty as a would be assassin,

868
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 3: a domestic terrorist, and someone intent on causing maximum damage

869
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 3: and massacring federal agents with a handgun. That doesn't jibe

870
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 3: at all with the videos that I have seen. I

871
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 3: don't see anything in that video that indicates that people

872
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 3: in supposedly responsible positions decide to jump to those conclusions.

873
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 2: What do you see or what do you think?

874
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 6: I see the exact same thing. And here again, none

875
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 6: of the statements that they have put out after one

876
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 6: of these incidents even is even remotely similar to what

877
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 6: we are seeing with our own eyes. And so it

878
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 6: gets back to we're just being blatantly lied to and

879
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 6: we're being forced that day, and in my opinion, that

880
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 6: choke down the proverbial finger. We have the considerable weight

881
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 6: of our federal government on our backs right now, and

882
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 6: that is not an understatement as far as I'm concerned.

883
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 6: And along with that comes to their power and their influence,

884
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 6: and they are using it very, very improperly. And that's why.

885
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 6: And all these things I'm saying, Dan, I know are obvious,

886
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 6: but they are because they're so rudimentary that it strains

887
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 6: credulity that the myriad of ways they could have carried

888
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 6: out this operation, this is the one they chose, and

889
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 6: so to me, it's intentional. This is about bullying, This

890
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 6: is about intimidating people, This is about inducing fear and

891
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 6: lo le.

892
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: Else the can you we're going.

893
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get into the specifics of the individual apparently

894
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 3: possessing a gun and the ramifications of that as what

895
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 3: we see regarding what we see in the video.

896
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 2: I want to get to that in a minute.

897
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,919
Speaker 3: But if you watch, if I watch, and again I'm

898
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 3: not in law enforcement, you were, But if I watch

899
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 3: the video, and I'm talking about in context, where what

900
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 3: several couple of minutes before it ends as tragically as

901
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,919
Speaker 3: it does, based on what you've said to me over

902
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 3: the years when it comes to law enforcement and other

903
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 3: people are respecting law enforcement as well.

904
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 2: What I see is a situation.

905
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 3: That could have been utterly and completely snuffed out before

906
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 3: it got anywhere close to the ultimate tragedy that it

907
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 3: did with just professional law enforcement in place.

908
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: Am I being too hard there? What do you think?

909
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 6: No, Dan, You're spot on. And one of the things

910
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 6: that sticks out to me, and I'm sure many of

911
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 6: my colleagues when you watch the video is several of

912
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 6: those officers. I can't say specifically how many, but I

913
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 6: know it was multiple officers had their weapons drawing. And

914
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 6: who am I to tell someone unseen when or when

915
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 6: not to draw their service weapon. My point in saying

916
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 6: all that is simply this, there are tactical ways for

917
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 6: several people to take down the suspect, whether they are

918
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 6: armed or not. And my experience, it usually hasn't been

919
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 6: everybody with their guns drawn unless the threat was imminent,

920
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 6: which I did not see in that video. And one

921
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 6: of the main reasons that we do that is to

922
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 6: protect ourselves because we're all in the line of fire.

923
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 6: If everybody has their weapon out, if that makes any

924
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 6: sense to you.

925
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 2: It does.

926
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 3: And again, what I'm having a hard time understanding is

927
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 3: what about his behavior? Because what it looks to me

928
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 3: as if the victim in this case is attempting to

929
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 3: tend to a woman who's gotten pushed down right, And

930
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 3: I can't, for the life of me, in watching the

931
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 3: videos indicate what threat I'm talking about before they ultimately

932
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 3: either saw a gun on him or figured out he

933
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 3: had a gun in his position, at least in his

934
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 3: posett when I say possession on his person, how he

935
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 3: represented any kind of a threat.

936
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 2: In fact, he went out of his way at some point.

937
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 3: He's got his hand, he's got one hand up in

938
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 3: the air and he's got he's still got his camera out,

939
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 3: he's taking he's continuing to try to video. I guess

940
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 3: I eventually maybe we will see that video. I don't

941
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 3: know if we ever will, But I don't see what

942
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 3: the threat. And because the words, as you know, are

943
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 3: very deliberate, the word was there was a.

944
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 2: Riot going on.

945
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 3: Now I haven't seen any sort of sign whatever whatever

946
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 3: they were attempting to do, whether they were trying to

947
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 3: arrest someone or not. That word, as you know, is

948
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 3: convenient because it makes a side all hell's breaking loose

949
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 3: and we don't know what's going on, we don't know

950
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 3: what to do. There's one individual and one woman and

951
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 3: maybe one other person, and that describes a scene that

952
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 3: allows the the perpetrator of this to call it a riot.

953
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 3: That to me again speaks to not wanting to be

954
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 3: very deliberate in this approach, and not even really trying

955
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 3: to be very honest, but to load us up with

956
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 3: terms right that sound terrifying.

957
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 4: Dan.

958
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 6: I am as flummixed as you and all other rationally

959
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 6: thinking people because I saw what you saw and what

960
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 6: many others saw, and I'll go back to this. There

961
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 6: is also a better way. I have been on many scenes,

962
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 6: whether it was a crowd control matter or just a

963
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 6: crime scene or something out of control where people have

964
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 6: tried to intervene, and there is a way to remove

965
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 6: them from that scene and get them out of harm's

966
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 6: way without shooting and killing them unless they pulls an

967
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 6: imminent threat. I can't underscore that phrase, and none of

968
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 6: that was present.

969
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 3: No, in my opinion, So the again I made this

970
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 3: point with if Andy and you know this, there may

971
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: be more videos, there may be a time where we're

972
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 3: going to get more information. I always caution that that

973
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 3: must be part of our consideration here. Well, I'll ask

974
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 3: him about what I told Andy. I couldn't get passed,

975
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 3: and this you can speak to because of the issue

976
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 3: of imminent threat. So, as I'm watching the video, I'm

977
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 3: seeing several officers ICE officers are surrounding him. He's now

978
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 3: half on the ground. I think his knees are kind

979
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 3: of on the ground. He seems to be struggling a

980
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 3: little bit with them as well. Okay, so at some

981
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 3: point they become aware that he has a gun on

982
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 3: his person, and at which point then the assumption is

983
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 3: we're trying to neutralize that threat.

984
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 2: Right, So you see one of.

985
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 3: The officers very clearly remove the gun from the middle

986
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 3: of the scrum. Unless we're going to find out this

987
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 3: is somebody else's gun, and we have to factor in

988
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 3: that possibility, but it seems to be that's probably his gun.

989
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 3: Moves away from the scrum, at which point my assumption

990
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 3: is there's an understanding that that threat, that imminent bodily

991
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 3: harm threat, has been eliminated. And about a second goes

992
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 3: by and then we start hearing the shots fired. Now

993
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 3: I've read a couple of people wonder whether the first

994
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 3: shot was actually that gun accidentally discharging as that officer

995
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 3: was leaving the scene. What can you tell us, what

996
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 3: light can you bring to this, what do you see,

997
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 3: what do you make of it? And what are fair

998
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,959
Speaker 3: things to think about for law enforcement in that sort

999
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 3: of environment.

1000
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 6: Well, one of the things is this, Dan, with all

1001
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 6: that you saw, I saw, and I wonder if you

1002
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 6: did too. At some point, I don't know if it

1003
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 6: was before or after they disarmed him, his hands were

1004
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 6: actually in front of him, right up by his head.

1005
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 6: Which is that's golden for us, because hands killed. I

1006
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 6: want to see your hands, uh, And I clearly saw

1007
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 6: his hands in front of him, right up up by

1008
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 6: his head.

1009
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 4: The other thing.

1010
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 6: To be fair, which is how you pose the question,

1011
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 6: is when you're out there on the streets, where there's

1012
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 6: one gun, there's two, and and that's something that should

1013
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 6: be considered. I'm not suggesting in any way he had

1014
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 6: another another weapon. I'm simply saying that in our mindset,

1015
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 6: where they are out there on the streets like that,

1016
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 6: if I find one gun and that's it's probable there's another.

1017
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 6: But again, all of that is negated by the fact

1018
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 6: that there was no imminent threat. Pulls by this man

1019
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 6: that I saw.

1020
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 3: Is the you know, the the question comes up that

1021
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 3: a number of people have have pused this morning that

1022
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 3: you know it is ironic. I mean, we heard from

1023
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 3: the governor yesterday. The governor is saying, well, you know,

1024
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 3: it's funny. I always hear from the Republicans the importance

1025
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 3: of the Second.

1026
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 2: Amendment, and you have a right to carry.

1027
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 3: He legally was carrying whatever he was carrying, and yet

1028
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 3: they don't seem to be willing to accept that right

1029
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 3: in this case. Now that could be turned on its head,

1030
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 3: because we've certainly heard Democrats when it comes to the

1031
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 3: scenes of danger, say the last thing any we need

1032
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 3: is anybody bringing guns to the equation. We got too

1033
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 3: many guns anyway. That said, it is interesting to me, Well,

1034
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 3: I'll save the NRA part of this in a minute.

1035
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 3: I'm getting the text from people saying, well, there is

1036
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 3: danger if you bring even a legally possessed firearm to

1037
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 3: that environment, especially if you have no faith in the

1038
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 3: profer fessionalism, as I don't of any of these individuals

1039
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: who have invaded Minneapolis St.

1040
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 4: Paul.

1041
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 2: What do you say to that?

1042
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 6: And I agree and to that, I will add this

1043
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 6: to me that speaks to this. It is plausible that

1044
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 6: that is the level of fear that has been induced

1045
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 6: into everyday normal citizens number one, And I'm not saying

1046
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 6: that's factual, but it is plausible that That's the reason

1047
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 6: I do not disagree at all with Yeah, the last

1048
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 6: thing we want is somebody introducing a weapon, no matter

1049
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 6: what the operation we're trying to achieve entail. And so, man, Dan,

1050
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 6: it just comes back down to me to but for

1051
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 6: them being here, none of this would happen. Again, very rudimentary.

1052
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 6: And the way that they've carried this operation out, it

1053
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 6: is destined to fail the people they're claiming they're trying

1054
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,640
Speaker 6: to protect, and so that that is just rubbish. The

1055
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 6: biles spilling out of their mouths, and it's very frustrating,

1056
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:09,679
Speaker 6: and it's scary. Well man, these are some scary times.

1057
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 4: Man.

1058
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 3: Here's what's interesting. Who is the chief? It was a

1059
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 3: couple of three days ago at a press conference. There

1060
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 3: are a bunch of I think law enforcement leaders, thank you,

1061
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 3: thanks for remembering exactly it who felt enough he had

1062
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 3: enough evidence on the basis of individuals from his office

1063
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 3: that have been stopped off duty and others who were

1064
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 3: telling the same stories to come forward and say this

1065
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 3: is not professional, this is not proper procedure, this is profiling.

1066
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 2: Here's the part, and this is the key to me.

1067
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 3: We are talking about leaders in law enforcement, right. In

1068
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 3: other words, these are folks who are not against law

1069
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 3: enforcement at all, actually, and they have compelled to come

1070
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 3: forward to speak these truths. And I would say again

1071
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 3: to some of our listeners who are on the right

1072
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 3: hand side of the aisle or say, look, lot order

1073
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 3: by God, law order, if you just stay out of

1074
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 3: the way and let ice do their jobs. These are

1075
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 3: law and order individuals who are saying this is not professional.

1076
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 3: The procedures that need to be followed are not being followed.

1077
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 3: These are not as targeted as we have been told.

1078
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,719
Speaker 3: I guess I'm trying to figure out why that doesn't

1079
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 3: resonate again because and I even know some of these

1080
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 3: individuals politically ain't exactly far left, not that that should matter,

1081
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,680
Speaker 3: but they're not and they're coming forward publicly. And this

1082
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 3: again was a few days ago, right, And you could

1083
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 3: say to me, it's all connected, chief, because you can

1084
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 3: say this is exactly what helps this is what is

1085
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 3: contributed to the climate that makes it more likely to

1086
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 3: have the worst possible outcome, which we had again in

1087
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 3: South Minneapolis yesterday morning.

1088
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 6: I agree wholeheartedly. Dan, I couldn't say it any more

1089
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 6: eloquently than you did. I will add to this, and

1090
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:14,719
Speaker 6: this is also they're speaking out for all the obvious

1091
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 6: and right reasons. But here's the other one that may

1092
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 6: be lost on the public. Guess who's left to clean.

1093
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 4: Up these things?

1094
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's local law enforcement.

1095
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 4: Dan.

1096
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 6: We've got federal agents here who have occupied our city

1097
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 6: and they are shooting and killing people and leaving the scene. Now,

1098
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 6: you don't have to ask Andy Luger what would happen

1099
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 6: to one of us at the local level if we

1100
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 6: discharged our weapon and left the scene. You're according to

1101
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 6: prison right, right, And these folks are operating with impunity. Again, obvious,

1102
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 6: and I'm going to keep using that word. But it's

1103
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 6: because it is so obvious to me that it has

1104
01:11:56,280 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 6: to be blatant that we are getting again in the

1105
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 6: dribble that we're getting from Washington. I mean, they're not

1106
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 6: even allowing enough time to have been briefed before they're

1107
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 6: making statements and using inflammatory words like domestic terrorism or

1108
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 6: this person was there to you know, do as much

1109
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 6: damage and the kill federal officers as possible. How could

1110
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 6: they possibly know that within minutes?

1111
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 2: They don't what I know? Like I said, you talked

1112
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 2: to a lot of folks in law enforcement.

1113
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 3: So even before this tragedy yesterday, what was the vibe

1114
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 3: you you know what you were getting, because as you said,

1115
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 3: they're now in a position where it's they've got to

1116
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 3: play sort of play cleanup. And look, we've talked about

1117
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 3: this before, certainly in the city of Minneapolis. Maybe the

1118
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 3: morale I think you think the morale is better than

1119
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 3: it was, but I still think we don't have enough

1120
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 3: officers is a long way to go. I have to

1121
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 3: think this just this also has to be a big

1122
01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 3: time morale dream it.

1123
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 6: Is, Dan And I'll tell you know what else it

1124
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 6: has sparked. My phone rang all night with people that

1125
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 6: I used to work with, that used to live here,

1126
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 6: to live other places. And so when you ask about

1127
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 6: what the vibe is here, here's what I have been

1128
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 6: hearing from multiple people. Well, what we're hearing is that

1129
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 6: this is all Governor Wallace and Jacob Frie's fault. And

1130
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 6: you know, but for them digging in their heels, this

1131
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 6: wouldn't be happening. And you know, before I throw my

1132
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 6: phone through the window. When I see stuff like that

1133
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 6: from people I know, especially, I take a beat and

1134
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 6: I give them the facts that that is not at.

1135
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:42,719
Speaker 4: All what's happening.

1136
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:46,919
Speaker 6: But that's what so many people are hearing them believing, sadly,

1137
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 6: and one thing has nothing to do with the other.

1138
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 6: And you know, I'm I'm not a big fan of

1139
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 6: either of those for other reasons, right, but at this point, yeah,

1140
01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna let anybody pen thiss on them. They

1141
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 6: don't have anything to do with this.

1142
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:02,720
Speaker 4: It's ridiculous.

1143
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 3: So again I'll ask you the same question I asked

1144
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 3: Andy Ted chatting with Blair Anderson, former Saint Cloud police

1145
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 3: chief with all sorts of law enforcement experience in the

1146
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 3: metro area as well. I you know, it's hard to

1147
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 3: see how we get out of here. I meant to

1148
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 3: mention to Andy, and I didn't. I didn't even I

1149
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 3: just ran out of time. As it was, I was

1150
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 3: way too long. There's a story, an interesting story the

1151
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 3: New York Times indicating that well, I'll just read it.

1152
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:36,440
Speaker 3: Federal officials have suggested that they might wind down their campaign,

1153
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 3: the Ice campaign here if Democratic leaders like Governor Walls

1154
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 3: and Mary Jago Frey would give them access to the

1155
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 3: people's subject to deportation in Minnesota's prisons and jail jails.

1156
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 2: Let us in the damn jail.

1157
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 3: Tom Holman, the White House's border star, I said recently

1158
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 3: Fry and Walls could fix this today. Now that's probably

1159
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 3: another complicated subject that we don't have time to get

1160
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 3: into all the remutations of it.

1161
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 2: But had you heard anything like that?

1162
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 3: Is there any reason to believe that that could be

1163
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 3: the simple way out of this box and that then

1164
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 3: we'd have a mass You know, we have a number

1165
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 3: of agents leaving.

1166
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 2: Had you heard anything about that or read anything about it?

1167
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 4: I have not.

1168
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 6: But at this point, Dan, they don't have enough credibility

1169
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 6: for me to believe that if we did comply with that,

1170
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 6: or if the governor and the mayor comply it with that,

1171
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 6: that that would make this go away. I just have

1172
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 6: no confidence that that's going to be the case here.

1173
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 6: And here's here's something, Dan, that just struck me when

1174
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 6: you said that. I've spoken of a gazillion ways that

1175
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 6: this operation could have been handled much better, and that

1176
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 6: one right there, what you just said would be at

1177
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 6: the top of my list reach out to local law

1178
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 6: enforcement or corrections and coordinate with them. If that's what

1179
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 6: you're really after, you're not going to get any pushback,

1180
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,480
Speaker 6: or you shouldn't not not for people who are incarcerated,

1181
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 6: whether they are are there rightfully or wrongfully. That is,

1182
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 6: that's a fair request, right, Okay, It's what I'm trying

1183
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 6: to say, And but but it start that way, and

1184
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:20,520
Speaker 6: so I don't have any reason to believe that that's

1185
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 6: going to help what I think. And I want to

1186
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 6: be wrong about this, and then I'll be quiet, dan

1187
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 6: is this is going to keep happening, and and there's

1188
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 6: going to be a flashpoint at some point. And I'm

1189
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 6: telling you I want to be so wrong about this,

1190
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 6: So make no mistake to all the listeners. I don't

1191
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 6: want this for anyone, but if you're asking me, I

1192
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 6: think that at some point there'll be a flash point,

1193
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 6: but probably won't be before this happens again.

1194
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 3: Now that that's the other I think part of the

1195
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 3: story that that lurks, right, is that as tragic as

1196
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 3: what took place yesterday was another utterly unnecessary loss of life.

1197
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 3: You say, okay, well then, but maybe if it can

1198
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 3: do anything as horrific as that is. It's the epiphany

1199
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 3: moment where then both sides figure out, all right, we

1200
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 3: got to get to some better place here, and it's

1201
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 3: going to get better. Chief, there's no guarantee that it

1202
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 3: won't get worse, as you said, And I hate saying that.

1203
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to be doom and gloom guy because

1204
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 3: that doesn't do anybody any good either. But that's the

1205
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 3: scary part here, is it's this. It's everybody gets their

1206
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 3: positions hardened even more than before. And then you wonder

1207
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 3: if then there's the sort of person who's been on

1208
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 3: the sidelines in this to say that's it. Now I

1209
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,680
Speaker 3: have to step in and I gotta do whatever I

1210
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:52,759
Speaker 3: gotta do. And if that means throwing a Molotov cocktail,

1211
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:55,799
Speaker 3: not necessarily literally but figuratively into.

1212
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 2: This mess, by god, I'm going to do it.

1213
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 3: And I'm assuming in law enforcement that's that would always

1214
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 3: be biggest.

1215
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 6: Fear and and and it is, which is why I

1216
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:09,599
Speaker 6: rolled off my tongues like that, Dan, because it how

1217
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:14,800
Speaker 6: how can I say this? Boy? I mean, this has

1218
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 6: got us all so so fumised, uh Dan, And I'm

1219
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 6: really at a loss for words. But our best chance

1220
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,560
Speaker 6: for things to go the way that that you described

1221
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 6: and that we all hope happens, would have been after

1222
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 6: the first right and certainly after the second one that

1223
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 6: didn't end in a fatality. But but to me, I'm

1224
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 6: with you, then that just made everybody dig in even deeper. Uh.

1225
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 6: And and and here we are, and that's unfortunate. Uh,

1226
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:48,880
Speaker 6: We'll get there, We'll get better. I don't want to

1227
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 6: be doing in gloom either, but I I you know,

1228
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:51,759
Speaker 6: two and two.

1229
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 2: Is four dan to me.

1230
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 6: And so we're we're watching this unfold before our very eyes.

1231
01:18:56,720 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 6: The good news, if there is any, is that people

1232
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 6: are not sitting on their hands. And when I say

1233
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 6: I was getting calls from all over the country yesterday,

1234
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 6: I mean it. And they were asking me, I don't

1235
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 6: know why, Well what can I do to help? What

1236
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 6: should I do? And so those people are calling their

1237
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 6: elected officials if I believe what they tell me, to

1238
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:25,280
Speaker 6: get their ear and understand and help them understand those

1239
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 6: who aren't, or perhaps try and sway their way of

1240
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 6: thinking based on factual stuff they've heard from people that

1241
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 6: they trust.

1242
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:36,799
Speaker 2: It's I'm thinking back to Friday that.

1243
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 3: We had Rob Olson from Fox nine, who was covering

1244
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 3: the demonstration that went through downtown that ultimately had then

1245
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 3: funneled into Target Center. And I don't know what the

1246
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 3: final numbers were on that, but it was it was

1247
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 3: I think it well over ten thousands in that certainly

1248
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 3: in that range, maybe more. I don't even know what

1249
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 3: the final estimates were. Is a think will agree a

1250
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 3: considerable number of individuals. And you know, I got a

1251
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,759
Speaker 3: text from someone from here who doesn't live here anymore,

1252
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 3: and this person said, you know, one of the miscalculations

1253
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 3: is any kind of belief that the sub zero temperatures

1254
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 3: might have any impact on, you know, interest in the

1255
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 3: in this situation. And I kind of chuckled, because at

1256
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 3: that point that rang true. That has not gotten in

1257
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 3: the way of any of the individuals moving forward wanting

1258
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 3: to voice their disapproval. And look what we saw Friday, Chief,

1259
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 3: We saw what looked to me to be an utterly

1260
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 3: and completely peaceful demonstration. And so if the next day

1261
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 3: there's another killing, that's I think what continues to wind

1262
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 3: people up. That is their obligation to continue to push back.

1263
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 3: And I wander, deep down, I don't know as they'd

1264
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 3: ever admit this that maybe people in the administration really

1265
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 3: underestimated and not have any idea what sort of pushback

1266
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 3: they were going to get here.

1267
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I really don't think they care about that.

1268
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 6: You know, I don't even think they considered it. But

1269
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 6: but what I will say this is this dam did

1270
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 6: you see?

1271
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:23,240
Speaker 4: Also?

1272
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:27,719
Speaker 6: Uh, the protests, and the peaceful protests weren't just here.

1273
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 4: They have started.

1274
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 6: To erupt all over the country, which is also a

1275
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 6: very good sign in my opinion, so long as they

1276
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 6: stay peaceful. But yes, you the scariest part is, yeah,

1277
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 6: if this happens again, are people just going to say,

1278
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,799
Speaker 6: all right, that's enough? And we hope that they don't.

1279
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 6: But you know, we're sitting on that tinderbox and all

1280
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:59,599
Speaker 6: that does is exacerbate anxieties and fears, right, and so

1281
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 6: we we we got a long ways to go, man,

1282
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 6: and I'll tell you what we'll get there. But Danny,

1283
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 6: the only thing that hasn't been stated declaratively is.

1284
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:11,759
Speaker 4: Is martial law.

1285
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 6: But dare I say, I believe we are under a

1286
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 6: a different iteration right now, And I don't think that's

1287
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 6: too strong to say. How else could you characterize this?

1288
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 2: Thanks for the time.

1289
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 4: And then and then the.

1290
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 6: Last thing and the last thing is, if we do

1291
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 6: get to that eruption point, that flash point, here's an

1292
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 6: even bigger fear they're going to send in regular army troops.

1293
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 6: They've already threatened.

1294
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 4: To do that.

1295
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 2: That's true. I'm surprised that hasn't come up again already.

1296
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 4: Thank you by elaboratenth. We're in right now.

1297
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 3: You're right, that's the word for it. We'll be in

1298
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 3: touch soon. Thank you, chief as always. Okay, former sant

1299
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 3: Clott police sheep Blair Anderson kind of to join us.

1300
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:53,519
Speaker 2: Well, have a shorty to come back.

1301
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 3: I'll give you the one uh shred of hope I

1302
01:22:57,400 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 3: do have that I hold on to that. I meant

1303
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 3: to get to at actually with Andy Lueger because I

1304
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 3: think he shares this as well.

1305
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:05,800
Speaker 2: We'll get to that.

1306
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:07,679
Speaker 3: We'll wrap up the program. Maybe you get a couple

1307
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 3: of texts as well. Stay tuned.

1308
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:27,080
Speaker 4: In.

1309
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 3: The end is, sadly and cynically, politics and vulnerability and

1310
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 3: votes the only way out. I asked the question because

1311
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:06,760
Speaker 3: there are a number of Republicans who nationally speaking, one

1312
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 3: of whom I believe chairs a committee that has already

1313
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 3: called for hearings regarding what took place yesterday morning in

1314
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 3: South Minneapolis. There is a Republican US senator who is

1315
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 3: called what has taken place over the last twenty four

1316
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 3: hours disturbing and eventually what you, I guess, can maybe

1317
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 3: I don't know bank on. I don't know if I'd

1318
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 3: be that confident. But hope to believe is that if

1319
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 3: the people in Washington who run this administration believe that

1320
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 3: the pictures coming out of here and some of the

1321
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 3: blowback even from in the in the Republican Party on

1322
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 3: what took place most recently yesterday is great enough that

1323
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 3: it could cost them power elections. Maybe if you have

1324
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 3: a lame duck president, maybe he doesn't care because well

1325
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:16,639
Speaker 3: we assume he's not going to try to run again.

1326
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:23,120
Speaker 3: But that has been offered up as maybe a possibility.

1327
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 3: Is that does it reach Is there a collective weight

1328
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 3: where it reaches a point that you say, all right,

1329
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 3: we're gonna pretend we're going a different direction for other reasons.

1330
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:38,640
Speaker 3: We're not going to acknowledge anything, but we need to

1331
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:40,640
Speaker 3: change this conversation a little bit.

1332
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:41,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1333
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 3: I think in the end that's probably the best hope

1334
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 3: because I don't see a lot of other short term

1335
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 3: ways out of the box right now. We'll probably have

1336
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:58,840
Speaker 3: guests on this subject. We've got several more we're trying

1337
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:03,639
Speaker 3: to line up for later in the week. This entire week,

1338
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:07,920
Speaker 3: and because it's clearly not going away anytime soon, we'll

1339
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:10,760
Speaker 3: get back to some toy department stuff as well as

1340
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 3: we'll try to mix and match the whole thing. As

1341
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:18,719
Speaker 3: I said, there's we've discussed I think a lot today.

1342
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 3: I want to thank our guests, Andy Lueger, former US

1343
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:26,520
Speaker 3: attorney and Saint claud police Chief Blair Anderson.

1344
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 2: You can agree with.

1345
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:32,240
Speaker 3: Some of them what they say, none of what they

1346
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 3: say what each of them says. But I think they

1347
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:37,679
Speaker 3: give us good stuff to think about. That's the idea,

1348
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:41,760
Speaker 3: that's the that's why we use certain guests, is that

1349
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 3: I think there is stuff to chew on worthy of

1350
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:49,679
Speaker 3: our discussion and consideration. I'll finish where I began, which

1351
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 3: is that the one part of this that I have

1352
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,720
Speaker 3: categorically rejected and will continue to do so, is the

1353
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 3: so called purity test, where others get to decide, well,

1354
01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 3: here's how far you need to go, and if you don't,

1355
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:08,080
Speaker 3: I won't respect the possibility that you might have come

1356
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 3: to a different conclusion or have come to eighty percent

1357
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 3: of where I want you to go. We don't play

1358
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 3: in those waters, so you will be I'll just warn you,

1359
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 3: you'll continue to be disappointed if you think whatever opinions

1360
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:25,680
Speaker 3: are offered on this show by the host of this

1361
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 3: program today, on Sunday or in the week, that I'm

1362
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 3: obligated to follow a certain line on the basis of

1363
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 3: that's what you've decided.

1364
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 2: That's not my job.

1365
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:37,240
Speaker 3: My job, and you're free to hammer away at whatever

1366
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,920
Speaker 3: it is is. I tend to disappoint people a lot,

1367
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 3: but we don't. It's not productive to get into these

1368
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 3: litmus tests. Well, this guy said something, so you got

1369
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:48,480
Speaker 3: to do this about.

1370
01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,120
Speaker 2: That in your world.

1371
01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 3: That may be true, just remember not everybody is obligated

1372
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 3: to live in your particular world. Thanks for watching, Thank

1373
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 3: you indeed for listening. And as I said, we'll be

1374
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 3: back tomorrow at three o'clock Bumper to bump reguards.

1375
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 2: He should be with me, I think as well. Are

1376
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 2: you on tomorrow? Got Wednesday?

1377
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 5: Oh?

1378
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 2: Another long? Okay, another another road trip for Go for Women.

1379
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:13,840
Speaker 3: Apparently all right, then it's Monday Tuesday Wednesday with Blake Moore.

1380
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 2: We'll talk.

1381
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 3: I'm sure it'll be football on the fan later today.

1382
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.