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Speaker 1: Ten thirty d NFL Combine is happening in India this week,

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Speaker 1: which is where the crew at Suomer Sports is posted up.

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Speaker 1: And Sam Brookhouse, who was with Suomer Sports and wrote

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Speaker 1: a piece or contributed to a piece at least that

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Speaker 1: we referenced on yesterday's show, he is kind enough to

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Speaker 1: join us from the combine. Sam, what's going on?

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm here at the combine, And honestly, this is

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Speaker 2: my favorite event of the year. And the reason why

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Speaker 2: is because that's the data scientist. It's my job to

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Speaker 2: gather data points and I'm able to get so many

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Speaker 2: good data points from analysts and agents and team guys

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Speaker 2: and et cetera, et cetera. On this draft class. I'm

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Speaker 2: happy to talk about here.

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Speaker 3: How much should I care about ruben Bain's arm size?

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Speaker 2: So look, I mean there's like broad what I call

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Speaker 2: broadcast stats, like the first time since X and something

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Speaker 2: since why, Like I believe the statistic that's floating around

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Speaker 2: is that a player with the armlesth or below that

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Speaker 2: arm lest has not seen a ten stacked season in

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Speaker 2: like twenty years or something like that. That being said,

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Speaker 2: you look at his wingspan, it's actually not that bad.

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Speaker 2: And you try to consider what Ruben Bain did, and

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Speaker 2: it reminds me a lot of the Will Campbell stuff

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Speaker 2: from last year. And realistically, we're hard on Will Campbell

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Speaker 2: because of his performance in the super Bowl, But who

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Speaker 2: doesn't look bad when Mike McDonald is scheming up against you?

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Speaker 2: And also Drake may himself as a high sack player

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Speaker 2: and sometimes invites pressure by moving up in the pocket

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Speaker 2: and dropping deep. So there are elements of Will Campbell.

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Speaker 2: But I guarantee you if you go ask Mike Brabile

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Speaker 2: if he could have gotten quality start after quality started

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Speaker 2: out of Will Campbell like he did for the majority

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Speaker 2: of this year, if he would still take him at three,

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Speaker 2: he would. And so I think there are certain players

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Speaker 2: that you just have to make you have to make

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Speaker 2: exceptions for, and in my opinion, that is Ruben Bain

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Speaker 2: because we see multiple blue chip analytical traits from him,

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Speaker 2: and typically that means that you're a pretty good prospect.

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Speaker 2: So if the arms aren't as long as they need

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Speaker 2: to be, main has clearly figured it out, operated around it,

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Speaker 2: and succeeded at the power five level. And so I

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Speaker 2: think given that production profile, which is up there with

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Speaker 2: the likes of Aiden Hutchinson and others. I do think

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Speaker 2: he's a top tier blue hip player in this draft.

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Speaker 1: You love data, and this week you can swim in

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Speaker 1: all the data coming out of the combine. What data

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Speaker 1: this week should I be paying attention to the most?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? The reality of the situation is when you're looking

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Speaker 2: at the actual athletic drills, which everyone is watching right

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Speaker 2: now and everyone will be watching throughout the weekend. If

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Speaker 2: I had to rank it out of ten how much

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Speaker 2: I care, or rather how predictive it is of future performance,

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Speaker 2: I'll rank it about a three of ten. Now, what

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Speaker 2: does that mean? It means. It means it is enough.

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Speaker 2: It's not a one or a zero. It's enough to

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Speaker 2: care about. But it's certainly a part of the puzzle,

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Speaker 2: and it's not a massive part of the puzzle. The

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Speaker 2: way I like to describe it is if you are

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Speaker 2: within a blue Ship grade in a scouting system, which

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Speaker 2: basically means you expect a player to be a pro

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Speaker 2: bowl or an all pro, or looking at some of

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Speaker 2: the other grades, you think that you could be a

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Speaker 2: starter or a backup or something like that. You may

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Speaker 2: move someone with the exact same grade up a spot

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Speaker 2: on your big board because of his forty yard dash

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Speaker 2: if you're a defensive end for example, or because of

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Speaker 2: his short shuttle if you're a if you're an intier

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Speaker 2: offensive line, and maybe you'll do that, but in reality

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Speaker 2: it's still a three out of ten. That's my true belief.

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Speaker 2: That's what the correlations show, and I think that is

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Speaker 2: what you got to look at during the combine.

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Speaker 1: At which position can the combine best predict future success

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Speaker 1: for these guys?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you're looking at the maximum, So if

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Speaker 2: you're looking at the forty yard dash, what can I

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Speaker 2: most clean from that? That's little inside linebacker position. The

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Speaker 2: problem is most of the other drills are pretty useless

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Speaker 2: for inside backers. So if you're looking on average, it's

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Speaker 2: the offensive line. And boy are we happy that it's

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Speaker 2: the offensive line because it's difficult to find other data

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Speaker 2: points that can really help us historically, I'm talking going

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Speaker 2: back twenty thirty years. Historically, it's hard to find other

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Speaker 2: data points that can compare and contrast offensive linemen. So

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Speaker 2: it's about a two point seven across all of offensive

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Speaker 2: line metrics and particularly tackles the adage from the scouting community,

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Speaker 2: Draft athletic tackles does not come from nowhere. It actually

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Speaker 2: shows up in that historical combine data going back twenty

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Speaker 2: or thirty years. It shows that when you get can

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Speaker 2: get fast tackles, and you can get tackles that can move,

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Speaker 2: as evidenced by the athletic tests, it actually means something

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Speaker 2: good or it can nudge you up in the big board,

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Speaker 2: and it can predict slightly. It can be a part

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Speaker 2: of your prediction for your performance at the next level.

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Speaker 3: Sim Brookus from sumer Sports is with us.

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Speaker 1: The combine in Indianapolis is happening right now.

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Speaker 3: How often do you go you know, you and I talked.

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Speaker 1: You were at the Senior Bowl right when you start

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Speaker 1: to get a sense of you know, at which position

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Speaker 1: is the class of players deep? At which position is

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Speaker 1: there may be not as many high end prospects. How

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Speaker 1: often do you go into the combine thinking one thing

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Speaker 1: about players at a certain position or maybe a class

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Speaker 1: as a whole, and then come out of it feeling

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Speaker 1: a different way.

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Speaker 2: It happens quite a bit. And again, like I'm a

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Speaker 2: data scientist, I'm trying to figure out the consensus and

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Speaker 2: prove or disprove the consensus, because that's what the wisdom

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Speaker 2: of the crowds is and that's how data is best used.

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Speaker 2: So I was coming into the combine thinking that this

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Speaker 2: was a really good defensive tackle class. And they're on

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Speaker 2: the field right now in Indy as I speak to

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Speaker 2: you right now, Guys like Caleb Banks, like guys like

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Speaker 2: Lee Hunter. Uh, there's a big kind of uh Kayla

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Speaker 2: McDonald out of Ohio State. There's a big number and

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Speaker 2: a big name list of defensive tackles that I had

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Speaker 2: in my mind that indicated that this was a really

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Speaker 2: good defensive tackle class and people could find a position

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Speaker 2: that it's rising in its premiere due to the success

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Speaker 2: of the Mike McDonald defense and the big Fangio defenses

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Speaker 2: that like to drop a lot of guys back and

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Speaker 2: utilize the defensive tackles to stuff to run on first

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Speaker 2: and second down. I don't necessarily think that is the

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Speaker 2: consensus case anymore, and I'm interested to dive deeper into

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Speaker 2: data to try to prove or disprove that. I was

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Speaker 2: noticing that guys like Lee Hunter, for example, did not

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Speaker 2: have great data profiles. But what I've kind of learned

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Speaker 2: coming in and talking to multiple analysts and seeing their

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Speaker 2: data and comparing it to what we have, or maybe

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Speaker 2: it's some new pieces of data that some people thought

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Speaker 2: to look into. It seems as if this could be

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Speaker 2: a really good defensive tackle class, and it's a deep class. However,

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Speaker 2: there's probably not any top fifteen level players, which means

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Speaker 2: probably not any defensive tackles that will end up being

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Speaker 2: all pros on average based on their prospect profile in

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Speaker 2: this draft at all. And so what does that mean.

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Speaker 2: There's gonna be a lot of teams that really struggle

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Speaker 2: to stuff to run that are going to be lacking

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Speaker 2: and betting that some these guys that don't have as

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Speaker 2: good as a profile can work out for them. That

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Speaker 2: was a radically different thing than I thought was going

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Speaker 2: to be the case coming in. And now that I've

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Speaker 2: kind of seen the consensus and seen what the film

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Speaker 2: guys think, I'm going to keep digging into this in

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Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks. Hopefully we'll have an answer

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Speaker 2: by the time we get to the pro days. But

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Speaker 2: that was definitely something shocking to me and kind of

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Speaker 2: changed my hypothesis about what this draft should be. And

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Speaker 2: I'm getting ready to test that hypothesis once I leave Indy.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't have many folks on this show

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Speaker 1: who use the word hypothesis, which is why, which is

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Speaker 1: why we call you Sam.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you about Caleb Downs.

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Speaker 1: So when you just watch him on tape, and I've

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Speaker 1: watched really smart people kind of point out some of

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Speaker 1: the things he can do, it's I mean, you walk

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Speaker 1: away from it going I'm not sure there's a better

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Speaker 1: football player in this class.

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Speaker 3: But he plays.

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Speaker 1: Safety, right, So the question of positional value comes into play.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about him a lot here because the Bengals

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Speaker 1: need safety help. If he's there at ten, there's going

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of teams that decide, you know,

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Speaker 1: we love him, but we're not going to take a

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Speaker 1: safety in the top nine. Maybe the Bengals don't take

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Speaker 1: a safety in the top ten. What does data tell

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Speaker 1: you about a player like him when you go okay

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Speaker 1: on film? He does all these things, but he plays

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Speaker 1: a position that is not regarded as a premium position.

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Speaker 2: So I think there's a couple things, and I'll start

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Speaker 2: off with the premium position comment. I am a data scientist.

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Speaker 2: My goal is to value these players, and as a result,

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Speaker 2: I would really really struggle to take a safety a

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Speaker 2: running back or an inside linebacker anywhere, definitely before pick fifteen.

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Speaker 2: And in the case of running backs, I really wouldn't

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Speaker 2: even do it in the first round. I'd start to

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Speaker 2: consider linebackers around maybe pick twenty, pick twenty five. I'd

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Speaker 2: start to consider safety is around pick fifteen. Now let's

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Speaker 2: move on into the Caleb Downs discussion. Here's the guy

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Speaker 2: who is positionally versatile, can basically do it all. Our

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Speaker 2: scouts think that he potentially could even stretch out to cornerback.

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Speaker 2: We don't have any data on that, but he has

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Speaker 2: basically done it all and done it all well, whether

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Speaker 2: that was aut Alabama or whether that was at Ohio State.

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Speaker 2: So the data does like him. It thinks he's a

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Speaker 2: quality college prospect. Let's go one step further. The consensus

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Speaker 2: big board this year will likely settle with three players

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Speaker 2: at the top who are all non premium positions. Number one.

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Speaker 2: We've heard a lot of people that think it could

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Speaker 2: be Caleb Downs. We think we've talked to a lot

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Speaker 2: of people who think it could be Jeremiah Love, and

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Speaker 2: then Sonny Styles seems to be I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you can call him a riser, but as we kind

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Speaker 2: of dust off the diamond here on the consensus big Board.

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Speaker 2: It seems that Sonny Styles could be in the consensus

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Speaker 2: third best player at his position in this draft. Here's

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Speaker 2: what people need to get out of their mind, though,

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Speaker 2: And I really found this out this week and I

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Speaker 2: double checked it with the data, and it turns out

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Speaker 2: to be correct. People want to go get nick him

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Speaker 2: and worry, they want to go get Kyle Hamilton, they

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Speaker 2: want to go get Derwin James. Because there's three really

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Speaker 2: really good defenses, and that's three defenses that have these

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Speaker 2: kind of big nickel safeties that allow teams to play

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Speaker 2: a nickel against thirteen personnel or twelve versonnel. Caleb Downs

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Speaker 2: is not that, and I think that's a misconception that

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Speaker 2: people really think that because he's positionally versatile, he's going

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Speaker 2: to be the type of run defender banger that we've

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Speaker 2: seen from those defenses. I don't think that's the case.

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Speaker 2: I think a better comparable in terms of size that

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Speaker 2: I've heard is someone like Buddha Baker, a guy who

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Speaker 2: can make every tackle but isn't necessarily going to be

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Speaker 2: acting at like a linebacker or an edge rusher anytime soon.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's the misconception with Caleb Downs. I

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Speaker 2: think that's the reason why we could see him fall

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Speaker 2: past five. But a lot of people seem to believe

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Speaker 2: that he's the best player at his position in this draft. I,

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Speaker 2: for one, am a positional value guy. Thus, I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: really consider drafting him over an excellent edge rusher, excellent

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Speaker 2: wide receiver, excellent tackle. If I were a general manager.

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Speaker 3: Well put Sam, enjoy the combine, man, Thanks so much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you all so much.

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Speaker 1: That's our guy, Sam brouckwe suomer Sports. Checkout suomer sports

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Speaker 1: dot com. Sum Er Sam du a terrific job uses

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Speaker 1: the word hypothesis a lot. We appreciate his time. If

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Speaker 1: Caleb Downs is there at ten, I'm taking them. I've

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Speaker 1: watched the Bengals B and I don't have the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five numbers in front of me, but I watched

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Speaker 1: them in twenty twenty four. B by far and away

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Speaker 1: the worst team in the NFL at giving up explosive plays.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine they're not that far removed from the

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Speaker 1: bottom in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: I'm taking Caleb Downs.

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Speaker 1: Thirteen away from five o'clock. But I mean, that's it's

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Speaker 1: it's a very relevant discussion. Right, there's a reason why

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Speaker 1: it was. Jamal Adams was the last safety go to

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Speaker 1: the last safety to go in the top eight. If

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, Like there's discussions about positional value that

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Speaker 1: are there, and they're fair and they're legitimate, and they

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Speaker 1: don't just happen here. Twelve away from five o'clock five one, three, seven, four, nine,

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Speaker 1: fifteen thirty, Justin Cyclones, who's going to be the franchise's

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Speaker 1: all time leader in points, is going to join us

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Speaker 1: at five point twenty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

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Speaker 2: Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 4: Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center at u See Health.

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Speaker 4: They never miss a beat. Your heart shouldn't either. If

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Speaker 4: you have signs of a cardiac rhythm disorder, don't wait

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Speaker 4: to be seen. Schedule online at UCHealth dot com. Southbound

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Speaker 4: seventy one, A disabled vehicle cleared out from the right

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Speaker 4: center lane. That was after Martin Luther King drive a

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Speaker 4: ten minute delay still from Dana. However, Mary Ingles Highway

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Speaker 4: closed off from a structure fire between California Crossroad and

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Speaker 4: Henderson Lane. I'm at ezelic with

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Speaker 3: Traffic this report is