1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,920
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Boston's Meat Radio.

2
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,479
Speaker 2: All right, well, I again want to thank my guest

3
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 2: last hour, Professor Eric Leernard Miller of youmass Amherst, the

4
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 2: Manning College of Information and Computer Sciences, talking about again

5
00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,639
Speaker 2: facial recognition technology now being used at Wegman's grocery stores.

6
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 2: You know that's a that is a big national chain.

7
00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, I thought that was a great hour. We're

8
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,239
Speaker 2: gonna have a great hour as well, and we are

9
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 2: going to once again review the twenty twenty five. United

10
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,720
Speaker 2: Van Lines has released a copy of the forty ninth

11
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 2: annual National Movers Study today and I am delighted to

12
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,680
Speaker 2: be joined by a vice president of United the Vanlines.

13
00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,080
Speaker 2: Her name is e Lee Coming. She's vice president of Communication,

14
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,360
Speaker 2: Elie I Ley Iiley, excuse me, I Lei, welcome to

15
00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 2: Night's Side.

16
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks for having me, Dan, I appreciate it.

17
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 2: My pleasure. I'm sorry about that mispronunciation of the first name,

18
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,920
Speaker 2: but it's Iley. I've never spoken to an Ile before,

19
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,400
Speaker 2: but it's delightful to talk with her. I enjoyed our

20
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,920
Speaker 2: conversation this afternoon. Why don't you explain to us what

21
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:29,120
Speaker 2: is the United Van Lines annual National Movies Study. You've

22
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 2: been doing it now for forty nine years, which is

23
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 2: extraordinary when you think about it.

24
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so for nearly fifty years, United Van Lines has

25
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 3: been tracking these data driven insights to really explore a

26
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,680
Speaker 3: deeper understanding of Americans overall migration patterns from state to state,

27
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 3: including their motivations and influences for relocation.

28
00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 2: Now, we are a mobile society. We have become much

29
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 2: more mobile in fifty years. I think that people of

30
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 2: my parents' generation, who were the greatest generation, they came

31
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 2: home from the war, they survived the Depression, and they

32
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,359
Speaker 2: wanted to get that house in the suburb and plant

33
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,359
Speaker 2: some roots and get their kids in college, and very

34
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 2: traditional kind of like a leave it to beaver mindset.

35
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,920
Speaker 2: And I know, you know, my parents lived for many

36
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 2: years and eventually, you know, passed on having made one

37
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:41,520
Speaker 2: or two moves. We weren't as mobile back then. Talk

38
00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 2: about how our society has changed in terms of the

39
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 2: willingness to pick up and move across country. I got

40
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,480
Speaker 2: to assume, and I'm no expert, that there's a lot

41
00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 2: more of that going on today than when you started

42
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,360
Speaker 2: this study forty nine years ago.

43
00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely. When we started to study in the seventies, we

44
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 3: weren't nearly as mobile of a society. But I think

45
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 3: when we had more corporations and more corporate moving, you

46
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,080
Speaker 3: saw more of that and people moving for their jobs

47
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 3: and their job relocating them to another state. So we

48
00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 3: saw a lot of that right in the eighties and

49
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 3: the nineties and even the early two thousands. And then

50
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 3: when COVID hit, the script changed again, kind of flipped

51
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 3: it on its head, and people were able a lot

52
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 3: of people were able to work from anywhere. Right, So

53
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,440
Speaker 3: now we have these mobile work environments. So now we're

54
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 3: not moving because we have to for work or because

55
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 3: we got a new job in a new city, new opportunity.

56
00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 3: Now people or people right after COVID started moving to

57
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 3: be closer to their family because they could work from anywhere,

58
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,400
Speaker 3: or they moved for lifestyle reasons, things like that. And

59
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 3: so we're seeing we're seeing it just be a little

60
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 3: bit different now than it was, you know, even before COVID.

61
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 2: Okay, let me throw ather wrinkle in here. The baby

62
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 2: boomer generation, of which I am a member, we are

63
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 2: graying and getting older. Most baby boomers, well baby boomers

64
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 2: were born between nineteen forty six, and I believe it

65
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 2: was nineteen sixty four. So the most the oldest baby

66
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 2: boomers will turn eighty or have already turned eighty this year.

67
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 2: And the youngest baby boomers are now in their sixties,

68
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 2: which is kind of scary to think about. And a

69
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 2: lot of them are saying, Okay, I'm tired of living

70
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 2: up here in the upper Peninsula of Michigan, or I'm

71
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 2: tired of living up in the north Woods of Maine.

72
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,960
Speaker 2: I want to find some warmer places. Let's talk. Let's

73
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 2: just talk about why people are moving. We're going to

74
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:55,320
Speaker 2: get to the numbers in the various states in a moment,

75
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 2: but just talk about if you're seeing an increase now

76
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 2: have come out of COVID in baby boomers saying, hey,

77
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 2: it's time to get to Arizona, get to Florida, get

78
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,359
Speaker 2: to Tennessee or South Carolina.

79
00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you just went through It's a great question.

80
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 3: You just went through the age ranges. Many baby boomers

81
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,479
Speaker 3: have already made their last move, right, The younger ones

82
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,000
Speaker 3: maybe have one more move in them. And we're already

83
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 3: seeing Gen xers retire, especially coming out of COVID. Right,

84
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 3: so those older Gen Xers are starting to retire, so,

85
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 3: especially in certain areas like the Northeast that has a

86
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 3: more aging population, we see a ton of retirement traffic

87
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:41,840
Speaker 3: from states like Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, and

88
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,279
Speaker 3: we see that traffic down south to the Carolinas and

89
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:45,919
Speaker 3: to Florida.

90
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,240
Speaker 2: So just give me the I always forget this. I

91
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,279
Speaker 2: know the baby boomers. When did the gen Xers start

92
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,039
Speaker 2: to arrive? How old have you gen xers? Now?

93
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,720
Speaker 3: Well, I am at the tail end of the gen xers, right,

94
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,360
Speaker 3: I was born in nineteen seventy nine, so I think

95
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 3: the gen xers do not cover the same amount of

96
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,480
Speaker 3: decades as the Baby Boomers do that post war generation.

97
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 3: But like you mentioned, those who are born in the

98
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 3: mid sixties until about nineteen eighty or so are your

99
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:23,360
Speaker 3: gen xers.

100
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 2: Okay, And so therefore, if you were born in sixty three,

101
00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 2: which is the end, well got you're sixty three. So

102
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,200
Speaker 2: if you were born in sixty four or sixty five,

103
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 2: do the math, You're in your early sixties. And I

104
00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 2: guess some people are able to retire in their early sixties.

105
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,679
Speaker 2: So good good for the gen xers. Okay, you folks

106
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,120
Speaker 2: break it down, just to let the audience understand this.

107
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 2: You break it down on a state by state basis,

108
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 2: and you have outbound and inbound, and what we mean

109
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 2: by that is people who are moving out of a

110
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,159
Speaker 2: state for whatever reason and going to another state, and

111
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 2: people who were moving into a state for whatever reason

112
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,520
Speaker 2: from another state. That's the simplest way I think I

113
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 2: can describe it. Is there a better way to describe it?

114
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 3: No, I think that's great. The only addition that I

115
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 3: would make on that is that we look at the percentages,

116
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,960
Speaker 3: not just the numbers, right, Because we only look at

117
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,520
Speaker 3: the numbers always, the most amount of people moving in

118
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 3: and out of any state are going to be the

119
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 3: states that are the most populous. Of course, so in

120
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 3: order to create all states being equal, the best way

121
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 3: to do it is percentage based.

122
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, California has fifty five million people, and

123
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 2: within fifty five million people, you're going to have a

124
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 2: certain number of people who are moving out and certain

125
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 2: number of people are moving in. And they have states

126
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,360
Speaker 2: like New Hampshire, Wyoming, the Dakotas which have maybe a

127
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 2: million people. New Hampshire I think now has getting getting

128
00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 2: close to two million people. But I think why Homing

129
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 2: is still the least populous state. So so having said

130
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,760
Speaker 2: all of that, we'll come back with the states that

131
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 2: most that are losing a higher percentage of their population,

132
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,720
Speaker 2: and a few states that are gaining. We'll look at

133
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 2: the extremes UH and Massachusetts is in one of those categories.

134
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,280
Speaker 2: We'll get back to My guest Isley Cummings, your vice

135
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,160
Speaker 2: president of communications with United Van Lines. They have done

136
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 2: this survey for forty nine years. It is a very

137
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 2: good snapshot of what's going on in America in terms

138
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,920
Speaker 2: of where people are locating to and fromp back on

139
00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 2: Night Side if you'd like to jump on board, ask

140
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 2: a question or make a comment. Six one, seven, two

141
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,959
Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.

142
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 2: My name is Dan Ray. This is Nightside. It's ten

143
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 2: seventeen here in Boston and all up and down the

144
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,720
Speaker 2: East coast of America. Coming back on Nightside.

145
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,560
Speaker 1: It's Nice Side, Boston's news radio.

146
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 2: My guest is Iley Cummings. She's a vice president of

147
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 2: communications for United dan Lines and every year for the

148
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,679
Speaker 2: past forty nine years they have done a survey of

149
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 2: where Americans are moving to and from, and this year

150
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 2: we can go over some of the states that are

151
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 2: that are Americans are moving too. And there's a couple

152
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 2: of surprises here. Ailey, I'm gonna let you do the honors.

153
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,120
Speaker 2: Tell us the top ten states where people are actually

154
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,080
Speaker 2: increasing population, where they're moving too.

155
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So I'll start with number ten. We have Nevada,

156
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:50,160
Speaker 3: number nine, Alabama, Arkansas, North Carolina, Idaho, Minnesota, Delaware, South Carolina,

157
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 3: West Virginia, and at number one this year we have

158
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,120
Speaker 3: the state of Oregon.

159
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,840
Speaker 2: That surprises me. What's the differential for Oregon? I think

160
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 2: sixty five percent, which means it's almost a two to

161
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 2: one ratio for every family that moves and relocates out

162
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,720
Speaker 2: of Oregon, two or are coming inbound. What's the attraction

163
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 2: in Oregon? So beautiful state. It's neither California nor Washington,

164
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 2: but it's it's it's up there in that upper northwest,

165
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,840
Speaker 2: right next to Idaho. What's the attraction?

166
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. So Oregon has been on

167
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,000
Speaker 3: our inbound list before. Before COVID, it was routinely an

168
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,559
Speaker 3: inbound state. However, in recent years it's been more balanced,

169
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 3: and I think we're seeing a resurgence in Oregon for

170
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,320
Speaker 3: a couple of reasons. One, Oregon's population is really holding

171
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,800
Speaker 3: study and a lot of that is Catcer's lower birth

172
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,320
Speaker 3: rate and Oregon a little less immigration right now in Oregon.

173
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,920
Speaker 3: But we are seeing a lot of traffic from California

174
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 3: specifically to Oregon, also Colorado to Oregon. There are some

175
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 3: affordable areas as in the state of Oregon, though Portland

176
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 3: and some of the surrounding areas can be a little costly.

177
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,719
Speaker 3: But also what's really driving that inbound traffic is the

178
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 3: tex that is going in in Orgon, especially just south

179
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,079
Speaker 3: of Portland.

180
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,520
Speaker 2: So you said that the tech meaning.

181
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 3: High tech companies, Yes, exactly, Okay.

182
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 2: So Oregon and then West Virginia's number two. South Carolina

183
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 2: is number three in terms of popularity. South Carolina's beautiful

184
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 2: temperatures are great, the tax rates down there are very favorable.

185
00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 2: West Virginia surprises me a little bit because, you know,

186
00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,680
Speaker 2: West Virginia was so reliant upon coal mining and it's

187
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: it's no longer, you know, well coal is sort of

188
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,719
Speaker 2: not maybe it's making a comeback a little bit. What

189
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 2: is the attraction of West Virginia which has a very

190
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,600
Speaker 2: similar number sixty two percent, which means it's almost two

191
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 2: to one, uh for every family that moves out to

192
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:05,440
Speaker 2: a moving in.

193
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,640
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of that in West Virginia

194
00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 3: is there are just a lot of people staying put

195
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 3: in West Virginia, so more people coming in, especially on

196
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 3: the eastern side, very close to states like Virginia, Pennsylvania,

197
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,480
Speaker 3: et cetera. So I think you see a lot of

198
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 3: traffic on that eastern side of West Virginia as well.

199
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 3: That is appealing because again, West Virginia is an affordable state,

200
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 3: and one of the main drivers for are for migration

201
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,599
Speaker 3: this year is affordability. I mean, it's no it's no

202
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,479
Speaker 3: surprise to anybody that housing in a lot of areas

203
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,800
Speaker 3: is becoming, you know, more expensive and more expensive. And

204
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 3: a lot of these families, these older millennials and whatnot,

205
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 3: they're they're wanting to buy homes and they're going and

206
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 3: moving to areas where they can settle down with their families.

207
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 2: Okay, now we've talked about the good, we got to

208
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 2: talk about the bad. The top outbound outbound states, well,

209
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 2: the top two are New Jersey and New York, very

210
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:15,400
Speaker 2: close to Massachusetts. California, which has had some real problems.

211
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:21,720
Speaker 2: North Dakota, which surprises me, Colorado, Mississippi, and then in

212
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 2: number seven the seventh state about the top outbound states

213
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,200
Speaker 2: are state of Massachusetts. Tell us what's going on in Massachusetts.

214
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 2: We have some economic problems in this state. Obviously you

215
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:41,120
Speaker 2: have retirement going on. But give me from your perspective,

216
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,400
Speaker 2: why Massachusetts, which has so much to offer, still finds

217
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,560
Speaker 2: more people leaving than coming in.

218
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,680
Speaker 3: Okay, here in twenty five we're seeing a little over

219
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 3: fifty five percent moving out. The primary drivers really people

220
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,199
Speaker 3: moving out to be closer to family and jobs. The

221
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,760
Speaker 3: state also ranks high among affordability concerns. So I think

222
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,920
Speaker 3: with some of those challenges you mentioned, you know, people

223
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,280
Speaker 3: want to settle down, they want to buy homes, and

224
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 3: if they don't have those opportunities in the state of Massachusetts,

225
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 3: they're going to find where they can do that. And then,

226
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, retirement is also the story.

227
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 2: We also passed what's called what is called the millionaire's

228
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,880
Speaker 2: tax here in Massachusetts. So if you happen to make

229
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,000
Speaker 2: if you're fortunate enough to make over million dollars, not

230
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,120
Speaker 2: that there are many people who make over million dollars,

231
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 2: but the state tax in Massachusetts is five percent, and

232
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,760
Speaker 2: they added the voters by a very slim margin, like

233
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 2: fifty two to forty eight, decided to tax anyone who's

234
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 2: making over a million dollars at nine percent on top

235
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 2: of of course the federal taxes. And I know that

236
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 2: there are a lot of wealthy people who have said

237
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 2: that if that passed, they were going to go relocate

238
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 2: themselves in another state, maybe live here for you know,

239
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 2: five months out of the year, but spend six months

240
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 2: out of the year in either New Hampshire, Florida, Tennessee.

241
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,840
Speaker 2: Where are the Massachusetts people relocating to? Do you do

242
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 2: you drill down that far? Can you give us a

243
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 2: little insight into that?

244
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 3: Happy too? So we're seeing the majority of traffic going

245
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 3: to Florida and then the Carolina so both North Carolina

246
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 3: and South Carolina follow up Florida closely. We also see

247
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 3: some traffic to the state of Washington, which kind of

248
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,400
Speaker 3: seems a little a little random. And then also your

249
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 3: California shows up on a lot of lists because again

250
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,000
Speaker 3: it's a very populated a lot of it's a heavy

251
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 3: populated state. So California is also on the list. But

252
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,440
Speaker 3: I think the story there more is right around the Florida,

253
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,000
Speaker 3: North Carolina, and South Carolina. You know, of those leaving

254
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 3: the state of Massachusetts, fifty six percent or over the

255
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 3: age of fifty five.

256
00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:01,160
Speaker 2: Okay, how many folks are? What is there a group?

257
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 2: We always kid about southern New Hampshire that there are

258
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 2: people in New England, as you know, is very small.

259
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 2: It's probably about the size of some states when you

260
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 2: think about it. And there are a lot of people

261
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,960
Speaker 2: who in Massachusetts have migrated to New Hampshire for all

262
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 2: sorts of reasons, foremost and including price of real estate

263
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 2: and also and so tax rates. Does New Hampshire show

264
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 2: up as and as a as a destination, it's it's

265
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 2: the easiest to get to, it's the closest.

266
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely in the top ten. It just isn't

267
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,400
Speaker 3: in the top five.

268
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, and well let me ask let me

269
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,200
Speaker 2: ask you what is the last state, since you have

270
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 2: all of this in front of you, that Massachusetts residence

271
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 2: former Massachusetts residents relocate to.

272
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 3: It looks like it's the state of Wyoming.

273
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised. We don't have a lot in common

274
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 2: with Wyoming.

275
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 4: They have the wide open spaces and we have a

276
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 4: we have Route one twenty eight in the expressway, which

277
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 4: will drive people from Wyoming absolutely crazy.

278
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,239
Speaker 2: Ley, I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much

279
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,119
Speaker 2: for joining us. It's a pleasure to have talked to

280
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 2: you today and a pleasure to talk to you tonight.

281
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start to entertain callers on the other side,

282
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,679
Speaker 2: but we'll see what happens as we open up the

283
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 2: phone lines. I have Kathy from Florida and David from

284
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,440
Speaker 2: San Francisco. They will start us off on the other side.

285
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 2: But since it's a Wednesday night and I know that

286
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 2: you have children that you need to attend to, I'm

287
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 2: gonna thank you for your time tonight. You represented United

288
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 2: Van Lines very well and I'll look forward to seeing

289
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,400
Speaker 2: if Massachusetts can recover from this next year at all.

290
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

291
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

292
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,880
Speaker 2: Dan, my pleasure, my absolute pleasure. If you ever get

293
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 2: back to Boston, let me know. Thanks so much. Okay,

294
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 2: we're going to take a break. Uh, Kathy and David,

295
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 2: you're there. My question is wherever you live, whether you

296
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 2: live in Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Ohad Island, Connecticut,

297
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 2: New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California,

298
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 2: New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Any, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky,

299
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,919
Speaker 2: West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware. Wherever you are, do you

300
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 2: tend to do you intend to remain for the balance

301
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 2: of your life as a resident of the state in

302
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 2: which you currently live? And have you made plans at

303
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 2: some point in your life to relocate and to wear

304
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 2: six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty and why

305
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 2: six one seven, two five, four ten thirty six one

306
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 2: seven nineth three one ten thirty. Let's have some fun

307
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,119
Speaker 2: with this and some of you who may have some

308
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 2: insights that you would like to share with us about

309
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:12,880
Speaker 2: the advantages of different states. We're coming right back on Nightside.

310
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 1: With Dan Ray. I'm Boston's News Radio.

311
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 2: All right, let's go to the phones.

312
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 5: I'd love to hear from you. Are you a lifelong

313
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 5: resident oherever you were born? Or are you already making

314
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 5: plans to make a big move Massachusetts continues. We've tried

315
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 5: to explain to folks over time that we are losing

316
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 5: population here in Massachusetts. We've lost it consistently now for

317
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 5: probably fifty years, A certainly lost population as a percentage

318
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 5: of what represents us in Congress, which is the best way.

319
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously, people are still having children, and people

320
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 5: are moving in, but more moving out of Massachusetts. And

321
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 5: it's a problem politicians going to you know, at some

322
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 5: point it's going to become a major problem.

323
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 2: Let me go to Kathy in Florida. Kathy is from

324
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,239
Speaker 2: Massachusetts that I know. Kathy, I appreciate you calling in.

325
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 2: How are you tonight?

326
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 6: Good? Good Dan. I'm in the early snowbird stages. I

327
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 6: guess you could say.

328
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 2: You're too young.

329
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 6: To move out, but you're right, I am.

330
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 2: But what what's your plan long term or short term?

331
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 6: Long term for sure to be a snowbird? And I think,

332
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,959
Speaker 6: like a lot of people I've talked to, you know,

333
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 6: when you start having grandchildren, the grandchildren are in Massachusetts,

334
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 6: you don't want to be, you know, forever gone. So

335
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 6: we're probably going to be when once my husband retires

336
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 6: down here more. And right now we're just down for

337
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 6: the month of January, which we've done the last two

338
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 6: years in succession. But it's interesting though, because you know,

339
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 6: I have the ironicness. I'm sitting here putting a listing

340
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 6: MLS right now as I'm talking to you, because I

341
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 6: had no Verizon service for eight hours.

342
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 2: But yes, I heard about that. I have no idea

343
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: how many people are affected. We should probably talk about

344
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 2: that at some point later today. But so, what your

345
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: plan sounds to me is you're going to relocate down

346
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 2: there and live down there for six months of the

347
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 2: year to establish a Florida residency.

348
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 6: Well, yep, maybe maybe I don't even know. You know,

349
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 6: that's kind of long to me when I think about

350
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 6: being away from family and so forth. But you know,

351
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 6: the other piece of it, too, is and I've talked

352
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 6: to the property assessors down here, and I've got a

353
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 6: wonderful state rep down here, by the way, have talked

354
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 6: to them a lot too. And if you live down

355
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 6: here nine months, you get the advantage of which is

356
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,160
Speaker 6: considered primary residence, and you get the advantage of a homestead.

357
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 6: Thereby your taxes are lower, so which seems kind of

358
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 6: crazy when you think about it from the perspective of

359
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 6: you know, we're never here and yet we're taxed higher.

360
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 6: But we've been owners here for seventeen years thereabouts.

361
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 2: Oh, so you own property there and you spent about

362
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 2: a month living down there, which is a good idea

363
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: in January, and then what do you do with the

364
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 2: property for the rest.

365
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 6: Of the year, rented out periodically. I've have people back

366
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 6: home that have come down and stayed here, and so

367
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 6: it's worked out. My parents actually bought this home when

368
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 6: they retired in nineteen eighty four. They passed away in

369
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 6: two thousand and six, and so then I bought it

370
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 6: in two thousand and seven. And it's coincidentally right near

371
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 6: Disney Low and Behold, which yeah, a lot.

372
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 2: Of it's going down. That's good to know. So it

373
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: helped me out here because I want to understand this.

374
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 2: I thought that in order to establish residents in Florida

375
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: for tax purposes, that you had to live down there

376
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 2: for six months during the year. And I maybe there

377
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 2: are some smarter eaving Massachusetts or Florida lawyers out there

378
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: who can confirm this for me. But some people actually

379
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: go down in October and they stay down there October, November, December, January, February,

380
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: March and don't come back until April because they want

381
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: to establish that they were in Florida for six months

382
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 2: without ever leaving.

383
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 6: But I was called n yeah, I was nine. Yeah,

384
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 6: as you're to be considered a primary residence. So really

385
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 6: that's in order to get the homestead.

386
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: Well what is the homestead? Let me ask you, is

387
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 2: explain to me what the homestead does for you in Florida.

388
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 6: Actually, what it does is it reduces your tax.

389
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: You mean, you're probably your.

390
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 6: Right, right because right now what we're paying when I

391
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 6: compare it with my neighbors down here, it's a lot

392
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 6: more because we don't have the advantage of the homestead.

393
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

394
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 6: You also have to be over sixty five.

395
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: Too, Okay, So so do you have to stay there

396
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: for nine months consecutively or could you go down, you know,

397
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,479
Speaker 2: sometime in October and come back home for Christmas and

398
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: all of that, or do do you have to physically

399
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 2: stay on the property nine months?

400
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 6: Well, you have to claim it as your primary residence.

401
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 6: So by that it has to be at least nine months.

402
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 6: So in other words, your your driver's license, your mail,

403
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 6: you know, everything has to be consistent with a nine

404
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 6: month window. So what's my understanding from what they exend.

405
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is you can have a neighbor pick

406
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: up your mail for you and send you the bills

407
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: that you have to pay, or you can pay all

408
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 2: the deals electronically. That's a problem that twenty years ago existed,

409
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: but that problem has gone away. I just I think

410
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 2: it's really interesting as to how you do that. Because Florida,

411
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, has tax benefits. I don't think

412
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: there's an estate tax down in.

413
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: Florida right now.

414
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: I know that Massachusetts, that try to stem the flow,

415
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: has a provision where you can you can exempt two

416
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: million dollars, you know. But again, you know, if you

417
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: have a house in Massachusetts and you have a couple

418
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: of bank accounts, you can get over two million dollars

419
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: fairly quickly.

420
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 6: Yeah. No, that's very very true. But you know what,

421
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 6: from a real perspective, Dan, we see people leaving Massachusetts

422
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 6: and droves, and you know, I think in more recent years,

423
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 6: in more recent years, this past year particularly, I've seen

424
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 6: a number of people my age moves and a lot

425
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 6: of people move down here, and I think a lot

426
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 6: of it is, you know, driven by the taxes and

427
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 6: oh yeah, it's just it's out of control. And now

428
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 6: with the introduction of this Municipal Empowerment Act. I mean, really,

429
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 6: it's just so exorbitant that and it's just like a

430
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 6: free for all. We're going to see tax on top

431
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 6: of tax on top of tax.

432
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: Well, well, the price of electricity and gasoline prices up

433
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 2: here very expensive compared to other states. And I know

434
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: that the people, the politicians up here say well, we're

435
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: at the end of the pipeline. It's more than that.

436
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: It's it's that were made by politicians dealing with you know,

437
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: the green movement and climate change, and nobody wanted a pipeline,

438
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: just like they didn't want a prison in their backyard

439
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 2: and all of that. So well, look, do your research

440
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: on it, Kathy, because I think again, I know that

441
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,239
Speaker 2: you want to spend time. We don't want to lose you.

442
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 2: But do your research and make sure you know what's

443
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: going on down there, and the world gets to be

444
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 2: a smaller place. I'll tell you, well.

445
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 6: I have dan, I have a municipal utility down here,

446
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 6: and I love them dearly and I know them by

447
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 6: first name.

448
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 2: I love that. Try that in Massachusetts, Kathy, Thanks so much,

449
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,719
Speaker 2: great to hear your voice. Happy New Year, Thanks for

450
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: calling in.

451
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 6: Thanks to you Dant.

452
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: Please keep in touch even though you're done in Florida.

453
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: I hope you're still listen to then Sight thanis Kathy

454
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 2: all right soon?

455
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 7: Great?

456
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: Bye bye six two, five, four thirty, six, one, seven, nine, three,

457
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 2: one ten thirty. Feel free to join the conversation. We

458
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: would love to hear from you, uh, if you have

459
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: relocated to another state. Maybe you've relocated into Massachusetts. That's

460
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. We're spinning this off the United

461
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: dan Lines story.

462
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: UH.

463
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: They do this survey every year, UH, and they've done

464
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: it for the last forty nine years. It's really quite

465
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 2: an effective uh presentation by United van Lines. They track

466
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 2: this stuff. It's easy to do because people are renting,

467
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: you know, van lines to move into states or out

468
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: of states, and they track it and they have like

469
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 2: inbound and outbound numbers Massachusetts, more people are leaving Massachusetts

470
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: than are coming into Massachusetts. Despite everything that we provide

471
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, meaning the change of seasons, the great medical facilities,

472
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 2: the great academic institutions, that's been still a problem. Love

473
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: to hear from you if you have looked at another state.

474
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: I'd love to know what you're thinking about and if

475
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: you're thinking about moving up here feel free. This is

476
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: we try to do a different show every night. It's

477
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: as simple as that. Okay, we could talk about the

478
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: same subject every night. This is a subject that maybe

479
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: you have not thought about. I can't believe you haven't

480
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: thought about it. But think about it and give us

481
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 2: a call. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty

482
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty back with

483
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: more calls right after this very quick break.

484
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: You're on night Side, Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.

485
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: We're talking in Nightside about your future. We spoke with

486
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: Iley Cummings, the vice president of the United Dan Lines,

487
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: about their annual survey of people coming into and leaving states,

488
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: and once again Massachusetts. When you look at it as

489
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: one of the top states that people are moving out of,

490
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 2: more people moving out than moving in. It's funny. The

491
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: top three outbound states are New York, Well, New Jersey

492
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: number one, They're number one, New York and California. Anyone

493
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: noticed a commonality amongst those three states. The fourth is

494
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: North Dakota, Colorado, Mississippi, and then Massachusetts. The states that

495
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: people seem to be moving into oftentimes are Oregon is

496
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: the most popular state for people moving into which is

497
00:29:53,560 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 2: a Democratic state. West Virginia Republican, South Carolina Republican. Delaware. Oh,

498
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: that's Joe Biden state. People moving in there, Minnesota, there

499
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: may be a story there. And then the next five

500
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: states Idaho, North Carolina, Arkansas, Alabama, and Nevada. All would

501
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: I would consider it be Republican states. So people again

502
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: are for the most part moving south and west, and

503
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: they're moving away from the north and the east. Surprise, surprise.

504
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: Let me go to David in San Francisco. David, I

505
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: believe is a longtime San Francisco resident. I suspect he's

506
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: very happy out there in the in the Golden State.

507
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 7: Oh sure, I'm Dan. And although I'm not a native here,

508
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 7: I've only I've been here only a short time, thirty

509
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 7: five years.

510
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's I think I think that would

511
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: qualify you as a native. David.

512
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 7: Oh, it's uh, it's it takes a lot to be

513
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 7: a lady.

514
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: All in San Francisco. Or have you moved around California?

515
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 7: Oh no, no, no. I was brought up in Saint Louis,

516
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,719
Speaker 7: moved to Colorado for a dozen years, and then finally

517
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 7: came out here. You know, I was interested in her study.

518
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 7: It was you know, of course she bases it on

519
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 7: the commerce of the moving company, and you know car

520
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 7: rental or Van Reynolds kind of company. And if you

521
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 7: think about it, you say, for example, Massachusetts has a

522
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 7: lot of colleges and moving in and out of you know,

523
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 7: college students. I'm wondering if some of the stats are skewed,

524
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 7: you know, at the end of the semester, moving back

525
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 7: home to mom or whatever, and the other thing I

526
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 7: noticed that.

527
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: Can I quickly comment on that comment. I would suspect

528
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: that if a student was coming in from out of Massachusetts,

529
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 2: if they if they used a moving van coming in,

530
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: and I don't think too many of them would that

531
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: probably use a moving van going out. Uh So they

532
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: would be a balance there. And most kids, you know,

533
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: mom and dad pack up this the car as best

534
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 2: they can, uh and and move them move them in.

535
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: I don't know that would make a big impact. I

536
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: should have asked her that, But that's that's a point

537
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: to consider. Go ahead, and you go go ahead.

538
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 7: And continue the other thing. You know, of course, you've

539
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 7: probably been besieged with advertisements Texas come to Texas. Everybody's

540
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 7: leaving and coming to Texas. But she didn't have it

541
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 7: even in her top ten.

542
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: So no, no, she does not have it in the

543
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: top ten. Uh and uh, I I don't have the

544
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: entire list in front of me. What what she does

545
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: is on the ones that are heavily outbound, uh that

546
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 2: the top one is Oregon. Heavily inbound is Oregon, which

547
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: basically two thirds of the trucks that are that are

548
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: either taking people out or in. They're going in Oregon

549
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 2: by about a ratio of two to one. Similar in

550
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: West Virginia and South Carolina. In terms of the other companies,

551
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: the other states that are losing population or losing people

552
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: by move New Jersey, New York, and California, they're like

553
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: in the sixty two fifty eight fifty eight range. You know,

554
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: it's look if you there must be something great about Oregon.

555
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: You're in California. What do you think is attractive about Oregon?

556
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: That's your next door state north of you.

557
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 7: Well, I've been up there. Actually, I had a sister

558
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 7: that lived up there for some thirty years, over thirty years,

559
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 7: and she enjoyed it a great deal until she just

560
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 7: passed last year. But it is a great state. It's

561
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 7: just got the same problem as we do with the wildfires.

562
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 7: You know, a lot of these big corporations have figured

563
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 7: a way to capture all of the water and sell

564
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 7: it to some other place. And so that's what's drying

565
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 7: out of a lot of both California and Oregon and

566
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 7: probably Washington State as well, that the water is being sold.

567
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 7: And that's one of the unstated secrets of how these

568
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 7: wildfires are happening.

569
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: Who's making that decision out there?

570
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 7: David, Well, there was an old Jack Nicholson movie that

571
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 7: came out fifty years ago called Chinatown and what was

572
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 7: talking about this No.

573
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: What I'm saying, but who could trying to figure out

574
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 2: who controls the water out there? Is it the states

575
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: of federal government? Is it private parties.

576
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 3: There?

577
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 7: I think in certain cases, if it's within the state

578
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 7: of California, it's the state handles it. But if it's

579
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 7: a long term contract, like for example, a lot of

580
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 7: the old Cowboy movies were built or were made way

581
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 7: up about seventy miles from f Valley, way up in there,

582
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 7: and that famous Japanese internment camp is up there, and

583
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 7: they made some fantastic movies up there. It was very lush,

584
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 7: but then all of a sudden, somebody got the contract

585
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 7: to sell all the water to la and the whole

586
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 7: place dried out. It's a desert now, and it's it's uh,

587
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 7: it's been that way since before World War Two. You know.

588
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 7: The reason they put that Japanese camp up there was

589
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 7: because it was already drying out and it was and.

590
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: You're talking about calif that's California, not Oregon, right, I

591
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 2: just want to make sure we're.

592
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, California. I'm trying to remember the name of the

593
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 7: camp up there, but it's it's uh, yeah, many of

594
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 7: the old black and white movies of the Silent Age

595
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 7: were there.

596
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that that's gonna if. Silent Age is now

597
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, so that's a long time ago

598
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: when you think about it.

599
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 7: Oh, I know, yeah, the water is still sold.

600
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: So let me ask you this since I since we

601
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: had this is a really good conversation. I appreciate the

602
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: quality of the conversation. How is San Francisco doing? I

603
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: know that you've just had a new mayor there, uh

604
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: is there's been kind of a change in the political

605
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: atmospherics of San Francisco. My daughter lived there for four years.

606
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: She just has relocated out of San Francisco. Uh, she

607
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: loved San Francisco. Has the new mayor he's been in Lourie.

608
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: I guess this is his last name. He's been in

609
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: about a year now. Is there any changes you see

610
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 2: or is it just you know going along?

611
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 5: Well?

612
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 7: There, you know Lurie. I think if I understand right,

613
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 7: he's from he's an heir to the family of Levi Strauss.

614
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct, that's correct. Wealthy guy, wealthy guy. Yep.

615
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, old money, old old money. And there was a

616
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 7: famous uh you might be familiar down in New York.

617
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 7: There was Robert Moses that handled the development agency.

618
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 2: Sure yeah Moses, yeah, sure, yeah.

619
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 7: He's split up the neighborhood with the highways and he

620
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 7: caused a lot of havoc with his development agency. We

621
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 7: had the same trouble about seventy years ago, sixty years

622
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 7: ago with a guy named Justin Herman. Well, we finally

623
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 7: got documents out of the Redevelopment agency, and he was

624
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 7: trying to drive the poor out of San Francisco, drive

625
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 7: the Irish out, drive the cals A.

626
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, how does that relate to Lourie well, how

627
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: does that relate today to today? I'm just trying to

628
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: I'm running out of time. I'm looking for a quick sense.

629
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: As my man on the ground in San Francisco, if

630
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: the city's getting better, stay in the same.

631
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 7: Well I can answer quickly. They wanted to make an

632
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 7: oasis for the rich, and so there's that fear again

633
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 7: that this old money mayor is trying to make an

634
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 7: oasis for the rich.

635
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: All right, well, keep us doing me a favorite, keep

636
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: us posted on your observations. I know that you have

637
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: a viewpoint, but I respect the viewpoint. And we had

638
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: a very lovely conversation. Thanks for joining us tonight, and

639
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: happy New Year. We'll talk soon.

640
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, Happy New Year, Boston.

641
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. All right, here comes the eleven

642
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: o'clock news. Obviously you don't want to talk about moving,

643
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: which is fine with me. We'll find another topic to

644
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 2: talk about and we'll move on right after the eleven

645
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: o'clock news,