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Speaker 1: Is really trying to keep us all safe, keep us

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Speaker 1: out of trouble. Of course, when it comes to your business,

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Speaker 1: computer needs business courier says intrust it. Dave's company is

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Speaker 1: the best you can find them a lot of interest

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Speaker 1: I dot Com and Dave Hatter, we always appreciate interest.

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Speaker 1: I t sponsoring this segment valuable. It is welcome back

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Speaker 1: and happy happy good Friday to you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Brian, always good to be here, Happy good Friday

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Speaker 2: to you and showing all your listeners.

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Speaker 1: All right, I know you love when this happens. We've

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Speaker 1: got a couple of or weel issues here. First segment

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Speaker 1: and next segment, we're gonna start with the ring doorbell things. Now,

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Speaker 1: we all learned in the Super Bowl that they'll help

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Speaker 1: you find your dog because I guess all the ring

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Speaker 1: cameras immediately operate or start recording when a dog runs by.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how it works, but they're expanding this

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Speaker 1: surveillance network beyond dogs. Dave, what is going on here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is an article from four oh four,

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Speaker 2: And you know, Brian, I'll post all this stuff on

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Speaker 2: my substacks. If people can go read these articles for themselves.

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Speaker 1: LinkedIn dot com search, Dave Hadder links LinkedIn dot com search,

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Speaker 1: Dave Hatdter.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 2: Defined Yeah, you can find me on x as well.

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Speaker 2: But so you know, headlines suits, leaked emails, suggests Ring

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Speaker 2: plans to expand search party. That's this feature surveillance beyond dogs, right,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, during the Super Bowl they had this ad,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, there are also some talk about

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Speaker 2: integration with flock cameras, the highly controversial license plate reading

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Speaker 2: cameras that have propped up in many places, and the

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Speaker 2: idea And you know, Brian, this is the problem with

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Speaker 2: so much of this stuff. You know, I'm not a

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Speaker 2: fan of the Internet of Things. I don't have ring

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Speaker 2: doorbells or nest doorbells or thermostats or any of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: And it's because a most people don't really understand how

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Speaker 2: these things work or what they're capable of. And what

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Speaker 2: I mean by that is it has a feature set today. Right,

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Speaker 2: if you have a device that has a microphone and

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Speaker 2: the cameraet, it has certain features when it ships, what's

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Speaker 2: got software in it, right, and that software can be

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Speaker 2: upgraded to add additional new features to that at some

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Speaker 2: future point. We've all seen things like a feature gets

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Speaker 2: turned off, or you know, they add some new feature

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Speaker 2: at some future point and maybe now you need to

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Speaker 2: pay for that feature. You know, a lot of these

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Speaker 2: things will use a what is often called a freemium model,

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Speaker 2: where you get certain core functionality at an entry level

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Speaker 2: price or maybe for free, and then if you want

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Speaker 2: advanced capabilities you have to pay for it.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure many of your listeners have seen.

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Speaker 2: And this is another thing that I'm not happy about

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Speaker 2: in our software driven future. And again you're talking to

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Speaker 2: a guy who wrote software for twenty five years. The

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Speaker 2: idea that because now things are controlled by software, I

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Speaker 2: can make you subscribe to things. Oh, the heated seats

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Speaker 2: in your car, you get three free months, and then

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Speaker 2: if you want to use those in the future, you

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Speaker 2: now have to pay for it. Oh you want AM

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Speaker 2: radio in your car, Well, okay, you're going to have

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Speaker 2: to pay for that or whatever it is, right, because

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Speaker 2: I can turn functionality on or turn functionality off. Here

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Speaker 2: this search party feature. The idea is you have a

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Speaker 2: lost pet. All these ring cameras can potentially work together

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Speaker 2: so as a dog goes by, it picks up the

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Speaker 2: dog and can identify the dog and help you find

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Speaker 2: your dog. That's great, right, I mean, who wouldn't really want.

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Speaker 1: That's the initial reaction because as someone who grew up

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Speaker 1: with the dog Buffy the West Toll of White Terry

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Speaker 1: that ran away and would never come back, you'd to

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Speaker 1: go out with the search party and find him. That

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Speaker 1: was anxiety inducing. So my first reaction when I saw

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Speaker 1: that it was, oh, that's really cool. But then you

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Speaker 1: pause anything but but yes, button is what Dave's gonna

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Speaker 1: show about right now, as.

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Speaker 2: This article points out right, and so I'm reading directly

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Speaker 2: from the article, Rings ceo told staff.

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Speaker 3: Now, this is.

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Speaker 2: Again in regards to the search party feature, Rings ceo

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Speaker 2: told staff the feature is quote first for finding dogs unquote,

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Speaker 2: indicating a plan to expand.

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Speaker 3: It.

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Speaker 2: Goes on to say rings controversy with AI powered search

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Speaker 2: party feature isn't intended to always be limited to only dogs,

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Speaker 2: the company founder Jamie Simonov told Ring employees in an

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Speaker 2: internal email obtained by four oh four Media. You know

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Speaker 2: it says this feature was loucht in October and on

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Speaker 2: by default feature. So this is another thing, another reason

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Speaker 2: why I don't like these Internet things devices. So, whether

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Speaker 2: it's a ring, doorbell, an as thermostat a smart coffeemaker,

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Speaker 2: smart TV or whatever. These things are generally designed with

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Speaker 2: speed to market, ease of use, and market share in mind,

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Speaker 2: and collecting as much of your data as possible. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're not focused on your privacy and security. Most people

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Speaker 2: don't know how to set things up correctly from a

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Speaker 2: security and privacy standpoint. They don't understand all the settings.

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Speaker 2: I would argue that in many cases the settings are

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Speaker 2: obtuse purposely, very deep inside on purpose. In the business,

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Speaker 2: this is known as dark patterns, to make it difficult

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Speaker 2: for you to find things that you might want to

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Speaker 2: turn off that are beneficial to the company but not

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Speaker 2: beneficial to you exactly. And again this article says on

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Speaker 2: by default. So you install one of these things, it's

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Speaker 2: this capability search party turned on by default feature links

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Speaker 2: together ring cameras in a neighborhood and uses AI to

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Speaker 2: search for specific lost dogs, essentially creating a network automatic

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Speaker 2: availance system. So if you don't want that, do you

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Speaker 2: know how to turn it off? What new feature will

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Speaker 2: they roll out that's on by default?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: If you're an adult and you buy one of these

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Speaker 2: things and you understand how it works, and you understand

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Speaker 2: how to set it up, you understand how to keep

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Speaker 2: it updated, and you opt into these features. Okay, you're

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Speaker 2: an adult, your choice, you have yeah, fully informed consent

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Speaker 2: and you opt in. Great, but so much of this

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Speaker 2: stuff you're not opted. You don't opt in. You have

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Speaker 2: to opt out. You have to understand what it's doing.

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Speaker 2: You have to understand how to turn it off. Automatic

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Speaker 2: content recognition. On these new smart TVs, most of them

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Speaker 2: have this turned on, so they're literally, like every so

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Speaker 2: many seconds, capturing everything you're watching on TV, everything you're doing.

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Speaker 2: You can turn it off. Do you do you even

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Speaker 2: know that's happening? Do you know what it's called? Do

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Speaker 2: you know how to turn it off?

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Speaker 3: Probably? Not so? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then again this, the leaked emails seem to insinuate

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Speaker 2: that the you know, long term intent is to use

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Speaker 2: this for people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, I know there are folks that will argue, well,

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Speaker 2: this is you know, great for the security and safety and.

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Speaker 1: Finance and bad guys finally lost children.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, same argument for Flock. You know, after this ad,

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of pushback on this. The Flock

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Speaker 2: thing apparently has fallen apart with them, and I mean,

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Speaker 2: here's another.

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Speaker 1: Article we're getting way over time, so I'm gonna grab

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Speaker 1: this one up and we'll get to well a correlad

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Speaker 1: to this, what are high tech scarecrows and why are

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Speaker 1: they watching us? We'll continue with Dave Ocurious to the

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Speaker 1: Dalk Station Brian Thomas with intrust it dot COM's Dave

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Speaker 1: hat Or doing Tech Friday. This one's actually even scarer

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Speaker 1: than the ring doorbell reality Dave Hatter. We can move

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Speaker 1: these scarecrows around to watch anyone, but they're designed to

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Speaker 1: be seen and apparently to serve as a deterrent for

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Speaker 1: would be criminals. Dave, let's dive on into this one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a story from the New York Post.

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Speaker 2: I would bet you every one of your listeners has

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Speaker 2: seen these things around, sometimes maybe in the parking lot

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Speaker 2: of a grocery store or something. Usually what you see

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Speaker 2: as a long pole with you know, one or more

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Speaker 2: cameras on the top, sometimes flashing blue lights, and usually

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Speaker 2: a big solar panel kind of positioned on a generator.

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Speaker 2: These things are mobile, and it's essentially a rolling security

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Speaker 2: system that can be deployed wherever you want it. In

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Speaker 2: the article, they call it cameras on wheels or cows,

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Speaker 2: they say, popping up in business, parking lots, construction sites,

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Speaker 2: car lots, events and communities recovering from wildfires even and

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Speaker 2: you know, again, Brian, kind of as we just discussed

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Speaker 2: and have discussed a lot in the recent past. The

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Speaker 2: bottom line is we are. And I wanted to say

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Speaker 2: because and then we ran out of time. In the

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Speaker 2: last segment from that same site four oh four, in

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Speaker 2: alignment with the ring doorbell search party feature, we talked

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Speaker 2: about it. Here's another headline ties right into this with ring.

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Speaker 2: American consumers built a surveillance dragnet. You know, whether it's

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Speaker 2: flock cameras, it's ring doorbells, it's all these different Internet

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Speaker 2: of Things devices that have cameras and potentially microphones. We're

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Speaker 2: adding all this surveillance in and I know that we

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Speaker 2: arguing on one hand, yes, we are doing it. Businesses

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Speaker 2: are doing it, individuals are doing it. It's not necessarily

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Speaker 2: the government doing it. It's you know, the cost of

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Speaker 2: this equipment has fallen to near zero because it's driven

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Speaker 2: by software. You know, the features can be constantly upgraded,

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Speaker 2: including things like facial recognition.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember if it was.

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Speaker 2: Last week or the week before, that we talked about

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Speaker 2: the story where a grandma from Tennessee ended up in

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Speaker 2: jail for almost six months because she was wrongly identified

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Speaker 2: for bank frauds by facial recognition and AI. So again,

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Speaker 2: I understand why some folks will argue that these are

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Speaker 2: a good thing. But this technology is moving very quickly.

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Speaker 2: There are plenty of examples out there that shows you

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Speaker 2: how it does not work the way it's intended to work.

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Speaker 2: And or you have this scope creep over time, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're basically building an orwelly in society of constant surveillance

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Speaker 2: everywhere you go with little regard to the potential consequences

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Speaker 2: of it. Again, you know, if you are, let's say,

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Speaker 2: at a local retail establishment and some AI camera from

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Speaker 2: one of these things picks you up, and next thing

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Speaker 2: you know, you're getting arrested because it has wrongly identified you.

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Speaker 2: Even if you're ultimately cleared of all charges, Well, what

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Speaker 2: is the impact on you as a person. Yeah, that

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Speaker 2: grandma that went to jail was apparently in jail for

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Speaker 2: almost six months.

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Speaker 3: I can't apparently me either. It's crazy.

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Speaker 2: I encourage people, you know, go look me up and

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Speaker 2: you can find a link to that story from a

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago. You know, apparently, according to the reporting,

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Speaker 2: she lost her home, lost her car, lost her dog

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Speaker 2: because she couldn't pay her bills during that time. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure she'll end up suing and getting a large

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Speaker 2: settlement out of that. But again, all of this bad

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Speaker 2: things happened along the way. You know, we really need

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Speaker 2: to think about the societal impact of all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: National security, Dave, let me just interject this, because you know,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese companies, party know, the nefarious actors be able

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Speaker 1: to hack into these things, because these things are we'll

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Speaker 1: have holes in their security. You point this out all

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Speaker 1: the time, you did in the last segment.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So if you got that, you have this nest of

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Speaker 1: cameras all over on the ground reflecting real time what's

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Speaker 1: going on in any given neighborhood anywhere in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be helpful to a foreign adversary who's considering

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Speaker 1: invading or otherwise, you know, militarily attacking a country. I

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Speaker 1: would think, well would Brian. And there's the demonstrative evidence

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Speaker 1: of that. Yes, you know, there's reporting that before the

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Speaker 1: attacks were launched on Iran, their security cameras were hacked.

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Speaker 3: Russia has done this to Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: And the more of this technology we put out there,

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Speaker 2: whether it's you know, video cameras and cars, it's these

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Speaker 2: roving cameras on wheels things, it's you know, consumer oriented.

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Speaker 3: Devices like this. Yes, they can be hacked.

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Speaker 2: You can guarantee it, even if the company is putting

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Speaker 2: out perfect software, which I guarantee you they're not. Most

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Speaker 2: of this stuff comes from China, but it might have

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Speaker 2: back doors in it to begin with. People don't know

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Speaker 2: how to set this stuff up right, they have bad passwords.

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Speaker 1: How about a law, dame, you know me, I don't

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Speaker 1: like law, but how about if you have something like that,

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Speaker 1: you must provide upfront a disclosure that this stuff is

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Speaker 1: automatically working and what it does, what it means to you,

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Speaker 1: and specific detailed instructions designed for a second grader to

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Speaker 1: turn it off or otherwise set things up. Simple solution,

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Speaker 1: easily addressed, and provides more information for the customers so

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Speaker 1: they can make an informed decision.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Brian, I'm gently with you on the

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Speaker 2: less laws or better, but I would take yours even

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Speaker 2: a step further and say these things should come configured

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Speaker 2: by default to do basically nothing. Okay, in the security

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Speaker 2: world that the idea is principle of least privileged, don't

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Speaker 2: you know, lock things down, don't allow people to do

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Speaker 2: things you don't want them to do, and then if

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Speaker 2: they need that capability at some future point, then you

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Speaker 2: allow it after there's been a discussion and it's documented, right,

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Speaker 2: denied by default, allow by exception, turn all this stuff

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Speaker 2: off and make people go in and turn it on

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Speaker 2: if they want it and understand.

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Speaker 1: It to accomplished. Problem completely solved right here on the

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Speaker 1: fifty five Carsy Morning Show, We're gonna do one more

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Speaker 1: than Interest. I s Dave Hadder. Update your iPhone, says

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Speaker 1: Dave Hatter, and apparently iPhones too, So don't go away,

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Speaker 1: Chris cross Country Mortgage. Who's that look? Yeah, six fifty

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Speaker 1: two fifty five KRC Detalk Station Tech Friddidave Hatter, Interest

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Speaker 1: it dot Com and it's time to upgrade your iPhone. Apparently.

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Speaker 1: I just texted my daughter over the break because she's

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Speaker 1: got one. I said, update your iPhone. Apparently thirty seven

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Speaker 1: fixes for security holes. This illustrates your point. You think

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Speaker 1: of all the companies in the world, Apple would have

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Speaker 1: security all you know, worked out before they issue some

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Speaker 1: sort of software, But no, lo and behold, they discover

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Speaker 1: problems after the fact.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Brian, So again, as a guy who wrote software

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Speaker 2: or businesses for over twenty five years, hundreds of different

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Speaker 2: applications for hundreds of different businesses, I created all kinds

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Speaker 2: of bugs, never on purpose. Plus, I will tell you

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Speaker 2: I'm using other people's software to write my software. True,

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Speaker 2: might be Microsoft sequels, ser Microsoft dot Net. Okay, the

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Speaker 2: Net software from Microsoft has bugs in it. The SEQL

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Speaker 2: server software has bugs in it, So there's bugs I'm

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Speaker 2: creating on top of their bugs. The Windows operating system

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Speaker 2: has bugs in it. Right, these things have to be fixed, Okay,

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Speaker 2: And the more software you have, the more bugs that

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Speaker 2: are because human beings create this stuff. They're not doing

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Speaker 2: this on purpose most of the time. Now, if something

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Speaker 2: is coming from China and I want to circle over

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Speaker 2: to that and tie these two things together. This is

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Speaker 2: why people like me are constantly harping. And it's not

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Speaker 2: just people like me. It's the FBI, it's DHS, it's Microsoft,

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Speaker 2: Google constantly saying you have to keep your software updated.

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Speaker 2: Center for Internet Security, all of these different organizations that

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Speaker 2: have skin in the game of trying to protect you

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Speaker 2: as a consumer, protect businesses, protect governments, protect our society.

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Speaker 2: Are constantly warning about software updates. So yes, this latest

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Speaker 2: story here Apple puts out updates. I encourage people as

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Speaker 2: soon as you can install the updates on your devices

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Speaker 2: or smart devices, your phones, your computers, whatever, your car,

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Speaker 2: because you know, sometimes it's adding functionality or fixing problems

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Speaker 2: with functionality, but in many cases, and as our society

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Speaker 2: becomes increasingly dependent on this, it's solving problems that allow

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Speaker 2: hackers to do bad things. So I know we'll run

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Speaker 2: out of time and maybe we hit this one again

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Speaker 2: next week. This is so important. Federal Bureau of Investigations

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Speaker 2: Public service announcement just this week headline data security risks

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Speaker 2: of using foreign developed mobile apps in the United States FBI.

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Speaker 2: So again, Now, obviously Apple is an American company, but

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Speaker 2: you know people are downloading apps to their phones, to

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Speaker 2: their computers, coming from all over the place, in many

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Speaker 2: cases China. So I'm just going to hit the high

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Speaker 2: points before we run out of time. This PSA, which

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Speaker 2: I'll post today so people can read it for themselves.

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Speaker 2: As early as of early twenty twenty six, many of

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Speaker 2: the most downloaded, top grossing apps in the United States

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Speaker 2: are developed and maintained by form and in companies, particularly

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Speaker 2: those based in China. The apps to maintain digital infrastructure

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Speaker 2: and China are subject to China's extensive national security laws,

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Speaker 2: enabling the Chinese government to potentially access mobile apps user data.

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Speaker 2: And then it's got a lot of details with tips

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Speaker 2: and so forth. But again, this isn't doomsday Dave Hatter

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Speaker 2: warning you about this. Here's the FBI telling you.

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Speaker 3: Now. I've been saying this for a long time.

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Speaker 2: I only have on my very lockdown, very updated Apple

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Speaker 2: phone a very small number of apps that didn't come

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Speaker 2: on the phone, mostly stuff from Microsoft that I.

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Speaker 3: Need to do my job. I have a few others

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Speaker 3: on there.

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Speaker 2: I have a very small number of apps, and I

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Speaker 2: update them constantly. My phone is as lockdown as it

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Speaker 2: can be and still do what I needed to do.

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Speaker 2: This is what the FBI is telling you, right, And

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Speaker 2: if something is coming from China, we maybe hit this

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Speaker 2: one next week. You know, the FCC just came out

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Speaker 2: now and banned going forward all these low end home

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Speaker 2: grade routers coming from China, right because you know they're

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Speaker 2: a security risk. I'm glad to see that we're finally

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Speaker 2: starting to try to put the word out and take

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Speaker 2: this seriously. And you know that causes problems. It's a

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Speaker 2: supply chain issue.

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Speaker 3: I get that.

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Speaker 2: But as more and more things become digital, as more

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Speaker 2: and more of your data flows through these apps and

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Speaker 2: these systems and this hardware, we keep seeing examples where

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Speaker 2: foreign adversaries in other wars and so forth are manipulating this.

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Speaker 2: Imagine for a second, Brian, if at some point a

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Speaker 2: adversary flip the switch and just turned all this off,

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Speaker 2: of what happened in this country.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's so scary when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: it just would be god I mean, existential crisis time.

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Speaker 1: I really is. So if the electricity goes off, we

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Speaker 1: are all collectively screwed. We can end on that real

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Speaker 1: positive note. Tech Friday, Dave Hatter, Happy Good Friday, Happy

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Speaker 1: Easter to you and your family. Dave, I thank you

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Speaker 1: and interest it for sponsoring the segment. Important it is

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Speaker 1: find him online LinkedIn dot com, LinkedIn dot com, get

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Speaker 1: all the articles and all the background information. Dave god Blew, sir,

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Speaker 1: thank you. We'll talk next Friday. Have a wonderful week

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Speaker 1: between now and then six fifty