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Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American Scouts Long back

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Speaker 1: at at seven hundred ww on the coldest winter morning,

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Speaker 1: we had a long time six inches of snow over

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Speaker 1: the weekend Saturday.

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Speaker 2: It was beautiful if you watch it yesterday a little chili,

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Speaker 2: especially ahead of the Bengals game. We had warnings danger

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Speaker 2: with the cold tempts which means hypothermi and frostbite. Let

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Speaker 2: me lay it out for you. The coldest day ever

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Speaker 2: at pay Course Stadium yesterday, and you ask fans to

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Speaker 2: get up early to clear the ice and snow from

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Speaker 2: your driveways, Clear the ice and snow off your cars,

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Speaker 2: buy extra clothes, probably drive on icy roads, pay to park,

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Speaker 2: pay for seats, and the county taxi as well. They

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Speaker 2: just shelled out over two hundred million dollars to upgrade.

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Speaker 2: You get to the stadium for the Bengals Ravens tilt

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Speaker 2: and then you have to clean your seats off yourself

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Speaker 2: and sit with your feet and butts on more snow

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Speaker 2: and ice to watch them lay a twenty four to

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Speaker 2: nothing lopsided egg against Baltimore to be officially eliminated from

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Speaker 2: playoff contention. Now for the third year in a row,

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Speaker 2: what am i missing here. I don't think I'm missing anything.

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Speaker 2: It is seatgate on this Monday morning on seven hundred WLW,

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Speaker 2: we have Alisha Reese here and clean your own seat

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Speaker 2: day at pay Course Stadium.

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Speaker 3: Yesterday Alicia, welcome.

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Speaker 2: We just paid two hundred and twelve million dollars, gave

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Speaker 2: the Bengals counting money, taxpayer money to redo pay Corps

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Speaker 2: and here we go again. You got to clean your

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Speaker 2: own seats off. Now what are we doing here?

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, Sloan, I would

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Speaker 4: hope that the media this is frustrates me when they

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Speaker 4: report this. In terms of the Bengals Least deal, it

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Speaker 4: was not unanimous. I've voted against it. I did not

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Speaker 4: support the two hundred and eleven million dollars last Tuesday,

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Speaker 4: which has seemed really rushed. I said, now, what are

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Speaker 4: we rushing to pay this two hundred and eleven million

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Speaker 4: plus dollars to the Bengals when the least is eleven years?

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Speaker 5: And we passed that.

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Speaker 4: I did not support it. I didn't vote yet as

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Speaker 4: that was passed before. We have passed the balanced budget

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Speaker 4: that we have to do. We have the budget, the

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Speaker 4: People's budget, which is due this week. We have to

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Speaker 4: pass that by by Thursday. But it seemed to be

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Speaker 4: a rush before this game to hurry up. We had

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Speaker 4: to sell notes, check out more debt which comes with interest,

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Speaker 4: and it was a rush. And we normally vote on Thursdays,

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Speaker 4: but they were rushing. We got a pay, we got

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Speaker 4: to upgrade the stadium for the future, and I kept saying, well, we.

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Speaker 5: Do this before.

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Speaker 4: Right now we got a budget where Prosecutor office may

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Speaker 4: be laying off people. We haven't balanced it yet. We

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Speaker 4: have a budget right now because of this lease that

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Speaker 4: I voted against. The property text for homeowners is going

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Speaker 4: to go up next year in a month, a couple

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Speaker 4: of weeks, they're going to get their bills, and you

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Speaker 4: didn't want to give the homeowners a break. But there

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Speaker 4: seems to have been this rush or to vote on

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Speaker 4: a Tuesday, I believe, or Thursday. They were saying, talk

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Speaker 4: about it on Tuesday. But the rush a week before

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Speaker 4: the budget is due to be passed to give the

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Speaker 4: Bengals over two hundred million dollars. And then we we

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Speaker 4: have Sunday with this situation where the seats aren't you know,

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Speaker 4: the seats aren't aren't cleaned. Everyone else was making sure

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Speaker 4: the city and everyone else was trying to make sure

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Speaker 4: that the streets and all those things were clean. Because

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Speaker 4: this wasn't like a surprise snow right.

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Speaker 2: We saw this, We saw this coming. We saw this coming.

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Speaker 2: He was coming to clean our driveways, our cars. But

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Speaker 2: the good news here is that according to the team,

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Speaker 2: in the NFL rule book, by the way, says that

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Speaker 2: you're required to remove snow from the entire seating bowl

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Speaker 2: before games. The NFL said, well, the Bengals did the

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Speaker 2: bare minimum to meet that requirement. But it is not

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Speaker 2: the first time this has happened. Happened a year I

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Speaker 2: think two years ago where the seats weren't cleaned off.

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Speaker 2: That is a fan safety issue during severe weather. And

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Speaker 2: so what what enforcement mechanisms does a county have. Do

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Speaker 2: you have any any saying their their ability to keep

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Speaker 2: fans safe.

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Speaker 4: Well, keywords you said was bare minimum, and that's what

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Speaker 4: we've seen. There's been a bare minimum, and then it's

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Speaker 4: on the backs of the taxpayers. One of the things

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Speaker 4: I want to make sure, because you always got to

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Speaker 4: read the fine print. When I get down to back

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Speaker 4: down to the office, I want to ask the administrator.

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Speaker 4: I want to make sure there's no small print or

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Speaker 4: any written clause that turns it back on the taxpayers

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Speaker 4: of Hamilton County because a lot of things that in

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Speaker 4: the in these leases, they've been very uh, you know,

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Speaker 4: being an ownership has been very good at flipping things back.

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Speaker 4: You know, that has any cost association, it gets slipped

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Speaker 4: back to the county. So, you know, one of the

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Speaker 4: reasons I've been one of waits to hear from our

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Speaker 4: administrator because I don't want to have something that he said,

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Speaker 4: oh well, you know in this over here it was

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Speaker 4: a little line and we agreed to pay for it,

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Speaker 4: because there's a lot of things in that lease that

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Speaker 4: in other other owners other markets, they you know, the

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Speaker 4: team pays forward the ownership, and in our market there

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Speaker 4: seems to be a lot of things that fall on

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Speaker 4: the tax payers. And so I want to make sure

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Speaker 4: before speaking definitively that that hadn't slipped in somewhere and

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden it becomes you know.

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Speaker 3: Mission counties. Well, the good news, isy a.

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Speaker 2: I have a copy of the master agreement here and

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Speaker 2: it is on page nine thirty seven, paragraph twenty eight,

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Speaker 2: sub section eleven, double E. It says that any finds

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Speaker 2: levied by the National Football League relative to snow removal

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Speaker 2: shall be under the sole province and paid exclusively by

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Speaker 2: Commissioner Alsia Reese Hamlin County.

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Speaker 3: What do you make it?

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Speaker 4: I know they love to hear that.

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Speaker 5: That's why I said no.

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Speaker 4: To this least, No to the least the.

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Speaker 5: Least put it on.

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Speaker 4: It's always and also don't want they say, well, now,

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Speaker 4: you know, because we got these new changes and we'll

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Speaker 4: slip it in and and that's what I hear. A

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Speaker 4: lot of it always flips back to the to the taxpayers.

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Speaker 4: And so that's where I have some concern and making sure,

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Speaker 4: yes we do have facilities people, Yes we do have

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Speaker 4: those things, but we should not be paying for all

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Speaker 4: of the extras. And that's what usually happens to to uh,

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Speaker 4: to us. What I've seen in my years of you know,

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Speaker 4: my few years of being down there, it has been

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Speaker 4: shocking to me. But but no, it was a flap

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Speaker 4: of the face to to the to the fans. And

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Speaker 4: we knew. Everyone knew that this weather was coming. They

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Speaker 4: knew when the snow was falling. They even reported when

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Speaker 4: it was going to stop falling. They knew that the

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Speaker 4: the that it was going to get colder and all

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Speaker 4: those kind of things. And at this at the end

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Speaker 4: of the day, you have the word bear minimum. And

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Speaker 4: that's what's been going.

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Speaker 3: That's the subject on my show today. We'll get after

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Speaker 3: you go.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to talk more about the bare minimums, because

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Speaker 2: that really is what what the driver here is, uh,

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Speaker 2: what the legendary cost cutting measures of teams have during

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Speaker 2: the negotiations during contract Have you ever raised concerns with

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Speaker 2: team ownership about a pattern of prioritizing profit and expenses

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Speaker 2: over fan experience that coming.

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Speaker 5: Well, we started with that.

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Speaker 4: I said, well, wait a minute, because remember I was

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Speaker 4: on your show and there were some concerns about the

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Speaker 4: seats that are not in the club level where they

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Speaker 4: can make more money. Remember I said, what about the

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Speaker 4: seats up at the top when they were redoing seats

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Speaker 4: brought broken the broken escalator. We were talking about that.

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Speaker 4: So I have constantly been on fan experience when they

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Speaker 4: come down there, whether they're coming down for a game

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Speaker 4: or another event, but fan experience. And then remember they

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Speaker 4: we got these reports about we we you know, the

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Speaker 4: stadium didn't get good uh didn't get good grades nationally

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Speaker 4: at the top. They even went into the food.

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Speaker 5: Remember they talked.

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Speaker 4: About the food for the for the team players families

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Speaker 4: and uh, they also talked about help we got food.

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Speaker 4: Remember for disability, a gentleman couldn't get to the restroom

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Speaker 4: because it's not just it's not accessible throughout the whole stadium.

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Speaker 4: I even talked about going into the stadium. They would

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Speaker 4: have people. Uh they would say, well, no, you got

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Speaker 4: to go all the way to the other side of

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Speaker 4: a person walking with a walker trying to get to

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Speaker 4: the sensibilities area. And I said, listen to all areas

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Speaker 4: this twenty twenty, you know five all areas should be

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Speaker 4: accessible in this day and climate. And so those were

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Speaker 4: some of the things that we keep hearing that we

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Speaker 4: are always doing the bare minimum with the top dollar

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Speaker 4: on the taxpayers. Even in this deal, they come in

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Speaker 4: and say, well, we're gonna do the bare minimum for

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Speaker 4: the homeowners. Even though the homeowners were promised thirty percent

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Speaker 4: were gonna do the bare minimum, and they went to

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Speaker 4: four percent. So it seems to be a pattern of

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Speaker 4: the bare minimum. I said, hey, we want to have

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Speaker 4: more events there. Remember we wanted to have the WWE.

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Speaker 4: I believe it was the smack down Summer summer swam right,

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Speaker 4: they went to Cleveland. We at that time we hadn't

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Speaker 4: even applied. So I came on your show you mentioned it.

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Speaker 4: I said we should apply once again. We do the

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Speaker 4: bare minim. Well, we can't have one event a year,

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Speaker 4: and you know that's good enough. So it has been

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Speaker 4: the bare minimum, bare minimum on their end, but the

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Speaker 4: top dollar on the tax payer end.

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Speaker 2: There's no Commissioner Lisha resh on this year, we're talking

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Speaker 2: about shovelgate at pay Corpse Stadium and acting like this

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Speaker 2: is hey, this is a rare weather circumstance. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've known about this for days in advance, and then

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Speaker 2: we're gonna get bitterly cold temperatures on Sunday.

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Speaker 3: That forecast was accurate.

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Speaker 2: You planned for that kind of stuff, and we act

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Speaker 2: as if or the response has been, well, it's like

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Speaker 2: a while, it's a big deal. You got to stay

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Speaker 2: in ice and snow. It's not like we don't get

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Speaker 2: ice and snow in Cincinnati. And there are the cold

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Speaker 2: weather stadiums, and I consider it's a cold weather stadium

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Speaker 2: this time of year that they you don't see that happening.

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Speaker 2: You know, now, if you get an event where it's

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Speaker 2: snowing an inch an hour, it's going to be awfully

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Speaker 2: tough to clear. We understand that we've seen that before,

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Speaker 2: but the storm had ended, plenty of places were cleared off.

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Speaker 2: It wouldn't be that much to ask if they were

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Speaker 2: clearing it as the snow fell before it turned to ice.

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Speaker 2: How do you make sure that doesn't happen again? And

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Speaker 2: I say that because I think it was the last

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Speaker 2: time the Bengals were in the playoffs three years ago.

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Speaker 2: I recall or maybe the year before, where the same

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Speaker 2: thing happened. The snow fell and there was no adequate

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Speaker 2: planning place to remove the snow and they said, I

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Speaker 2: we'll do better next time. Your contemporary there on the commission,

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Summer Dumas, said that we need to do a

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Speaker 2: better job for next time. Well, this is the next

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Speaker 2: time after three years ago. It doesn't seem like they

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Speaker 2: care or the messages have been received. Do you have

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Speaker 2: any influence in your position to make that happen?

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Speaker 4: Well, I believe that the influence that the county commissioners

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Speaker 4: had is when we went into the negotiation, and that's

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Speaker 4: why everything in negotiation needed to really be on the

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Speaker 4: table with you know, some type of penalty because you know,

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Speaker 4: if someone goes in there and say they fail, you know,

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Speaker 4: then there's a liability that could you know, fall on

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Speaker 4: the county as well, the county taxpayers. When they filed

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Speaker 4: that lawsuit about the restroom, they didn't just put the Bengals,

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Speaker 4: they put they put Hamilton County. And then the Bengals

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Speaker 4: ownership wanted to remove themselves from the lawsuit and leave

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Speaker 4: it to the taxpayers. And so really these type of things,

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Speaker 4: that's why I went to know on the on the deal,

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Speaker 4: you've got to really and then be enforceable. It can't

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Speaker 4: be Well, they made a call to the administrator and

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Speaker 4: now he comes and we don't get to talk to

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Speaker 4: each other. Three of us are on the county commission

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Speaker 4: of to talk. That would be a majority, so there's

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Speaker 4: only one person who can talk to all three of us,

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Speaker 4: and so we end up saying one thing, and then

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Speaker 4: he has a meeting and then they come out and

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Speaker 4: then the next thing, I know, well, we're okay with it.

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Speaker 4: We should have you know, we've got it again. If

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Speaker 4: we hadn't rushed last week to do the two one

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Speaker 4: hundred and eleven million dollars we'd had some leverage, but

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Speaker 4: it's hard to have leverage. If you've given them the

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Speaker 4: checkbook and you've written a blank.

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Speaker 3: Check, that's over.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 4: I tried to have some Yeah, you talked about seat gate,

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Speaker 4: has been homeowner gate. I mean, there's been a lot

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Speaker 4: of gates down there.

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Speaker 5: I mean it's a lot of things going on, but

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Speaker 5: you got to take care of it.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, you're negotiating the check book. That's where

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Speaker 4: you have the power.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how you hold it.

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Speaker 2: Most I would say almost every other NFL team save

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Speaker 2: maybe one except I don't know if there's an exception

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Speaker 2: or not to that would look at in the public

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Speaker 2: outcry going. Man, you know what, it's the fan experience.

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Speaker 2: It's a bad look for the team. It's a bad

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Speaker 2: look for the city and the franchise because things like

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Speaker 2: this happen, not not frequently, but enough to establish a

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Speaker 2: pattern if you go back in time, that they simply

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Speaker 2: will do the bare minimum and don't care what the

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Speaker 2: fans or the media or anyone else thinks for that matter.

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Speaker 2: They only care about what their opinions are inside pay

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Speaker 2: corps in the front office, and typically other teams would

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Speaker 2: look at this and go, yeah, this, this gives our

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Speaker 2: franchise a bad look. We better clean this up and

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Speaker 2: fix it for next time. I think almost every other

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Speaker 2: NFL team thinks that way, except the Bengals.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I can't tell you how they think. I just

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Speaker 4: know that when I look at the actual deal. And

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Speaker 4: when you have a chance, Remember we had to have

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Speaker 4: a free watch party, Sloan, you and I. They said

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Speaker 4: let's do what. It came from a It came from

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Speaker 4: a fan that said let's do it. They were once

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Speaker 4: said we can't do it, and then the next thing

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Speaker 4: I know, they came back with it. We found a

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Speaker 4: way to do it. Now we want to do it

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Speaker 4: for ninety nine dollars. We wanted to have some free

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Speaker 4: to get back to the fans every time we want

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Speaker 4: to do. We wanted to have something to get back

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Speaker 4: to the homeowners.

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Speaker 5: And they said, now we want.

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Speaker 4: All the money, and now we only can do four.

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Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. So anything that doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Make money, from what I've seen, it's always we'll put

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Speaker 4: it on the If it costs money, the taxpayers, we

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Speaker 4: want you to pay. If it makes money, then again

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Speaker 4: then it's okay for them. And again there was so

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Speaker 4: much pressure to pass this two hundred eleven million dollars

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Speaker 4: right before. I don't know if they knew that the

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Speaker 4: season was going to end or something, but it was,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 5: The administration said, we got it.

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Speaker 4: We gotta go, said, this is an eleven year deal.

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Speaker 4: Why we gotta do it so quick? We gotta do it,

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Speaker 4: even before we balance the budget.

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Speaker 5: We gotta do it.

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Speaker 4: And now they've done it, and uh, it's two hundred

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Speaker 4: eleven million dollars out a three hundred and fifty million

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Speaker 4: we don't put. That's a pretty big front load. And

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Speaker 4: now here we are, not even a week later, and

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Speaker 4: now we're talking about, well, wait a minute, the seats.

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Speaker 4: What wasn't now you know, well it removed from seat.

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Speaker 3: You feed enough pigeons, you get fat, happy pigeons. That's

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Speaker 3: what you get.

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Speaker 2: Commissioner Lisha Reese on seatgate this morning on seven hundred

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Speaker 2: W there's nothing you can do.

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Speaker 3: It's over. But uh, it helps I think collectively to complain.

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Speaker 4: No, I think it's you know, we got to bring

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Speaker 4: these things up and and I'm gonna ask the administrator

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Speaker 4: to see what really can be done, and it should

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Speaker 4: be done. But I want to make sure Swan thank

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Speaker 4: you for having me on. But I hope these media

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Speaker 4: when they write that he said, commissioners passed two hundred

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Speaker 4: and eleven million dollars. I didn't vote yes. Please it

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Speaker 4: was two to one.

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Speaker 3: We know, we know you made your case.

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Speaker 4: We got it.

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Speaker 3: I told you so. I told you so the I

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Speaker 3: told you so. Alisha. I always appreciate you coming out.

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Speaker 3: I have a great day.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this, but Alisha Reese

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Speaker 2: did not vote for them. She always brings the heat,

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Speaker 2: and God knows we need some heat this morning, especially

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Speaker 2: if you suffered through yesterday's If you suffered through yesterday's game,

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Speaker 2: uh and happened to go there, I'll bump you to

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Speaker 2: the top of the call list here because we're going

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Speaker 2: to examine from top to bottom the central idea of

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Speaker 2: the segment of the show this morning, from Alicia to

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Speaker 2: your calls coming up next after news, and that is

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Speaker 2: the bare minimum, Bengals, the bare minimum. And if you

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Speaker 2: just do the bare minimum, do you ever expect to

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Speaker 2: win a championship in your lifetime? We'll get to that

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Speaker 2: next on the show right after this on seven D

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Speaker 2: all right, slowly rolling with you on this cold Monday

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Speaker 2: morning on seven hundred ww that's a beauty of Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: Though it'll get better. It always gets better, and and

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Speaker 2: rather quickly. How crazy is this Rob Reiner thing that

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Speaker 2: his wife, Michelle Singer he murdered yesterday, found dead near

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles home outside of Brentwood. I believe prime suspect

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Speaker 2: as their son. Holy smokes. And what's really weird was

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Speaker 2: I got Saturday? I was flipping through some stuff and

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Speaker 2: Spinal Tap two was on. Rob Ryan of course start

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Speaker 2: directed that one and makes me want to go away.

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Speaker 2: I watch the one, I guess, okay, but man at

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Speaker 2: first one.

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Speaker 3: Is just classic.

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Speaker 2: It's classic thought and I was thinking the time, going god,

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Speaker 2: Rob Briner, man talk about a guy just owns it,

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Speaker 2: and now on a day later he's murdered.

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Speaker 3: Crazy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, think of the movies he produced, Princess Bride,

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Speaker 2: Harry met Sally, stand by Me, a few good men.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned Spinal Tap, Misery with Kathy Bates and Stephen

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Speaker 2: King Men, goest to Mississippi. Tons of great movies he

355
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Speaker 2: made his director and of course you know, if you're

356
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Speaker 2: old enough, remember him as Meathead. It all started with Meathead.

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Speaker 2: Meathead is dead long lived meathead. There's a crazy story

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Speaker 2: continue unfold. We'll follow that for you too. Rough day

359
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:21,160
Speaker 2: in the National Football yesterday, Micah Parsons and Pat Mahomes

360
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Speaker 2: both going down with knee injuries, season ending knee injuries.

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Speaker 3: DeVante Adams thought a hamstring. It was rough.

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Speaker 2: Uh, so, you know, things could be worse, but how

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Speaker 2: much worse could they possibly be? For us here in Cincinnati,

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Speaker 2: we saw about six inches of snowfall on Saturday night.

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Speaker 2: I like snow. I thought it was a beautiful snowfall.

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Speaker 2: The better cold yesterday, no one likes. And ahead of

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Speaker 2: the Bengals game, we had ample warning that there would

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Speaker 2: be snowfall. We knew what was coming. Despite us often

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Speaker 2: pointing fun and making fun of and rightly so, climbate terrorists.

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Speaker 2: Now they got it right. And it was well, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna get maybe four to five inch, okay, now, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 2: We're going to go four to eight and yeah, most

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Speaker 2: of the avery six inches And of course he dangerously

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Speaker 2: cold temperatures following that, so that means hype with thermi

375
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Speaker 2: it means frostbrights. It was the coldest day ever at

376
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Speaker 2: pay Court Stadium. You ask fans to get up early.

377
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Speaker 2: You ask fans to clear ice off their driveway, snow

378
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Speaker 2: off their driveways, off their cars, buy extra clothes, probably

379
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,880
Speaker 2: drive on icy roads, pay to park, pay for seats

380
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Speaker 2: at the stadium, which, by the way, just last week,

381
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Speaker 2: just last week, as Alisha Rees pointed out, we spent

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Speaker 2: two hundred and eleven, two hundred and twelve million dollars

383
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Speaker 2: to upgrade. And you show up after doing all that

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Speaker 2: for a team that is just about da and you

385
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Speaker 2: have to clear the seats off using your credit cards

386
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Speaker 2: and your gloves, and you put all that snow where

387
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 2: at your feet to stand on more snow and morice

388
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Speaker 2: to watch them lose twenty for nothing and simply not

389
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Speaker 2: show up and be eliminated from the playoffs for the

390
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Speaker 2: third year in a row. As a Bengal fan, how

391
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,400
Speaker 2: does that make you feel? As a taxpayer, how does

392
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 2: that make you feel? The scary part about this is

393
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,400
Speaker 2: the Bengals, and Alicia touched on it slightly, and that's

394
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 2: the problem with this whole thing is it's the bare

395
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Speaker 2: minimum Bengals. The Bengals have been a bare minimum team

396
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 2: during their existence. That and I'm convinced that the Bengals

397
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Speaker 2: will never win a Super Bowl in my lifetime, and

398
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 2: I know how close we are. I'll get to that

399
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 2: in a second. But we hear about all the seismic

400
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 2: changes that have occurred since Burrow's arrival, you know, the

401
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 2: ring of honor, on and on, which is true. There's

402
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 2: been some changes, But the clear, unchanging, immovable fact, the

403
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: irrefutable truth, is this team will always do the bare

404
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 2: minimum required that existing is plenty. It's plenty, the bare minimum.

405
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 2: If you look at the front office now, granted they've

406
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 2: added some pieces here, but still the league's smallest front office.

407
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 2: We have the small scouting staff and analytics the players

408
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,919
Speaker 2: at one time, and this goes back in history. Remember

409
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 2: when players were told to hey, if you want gatorade,

410
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: you got to stop at UDF and bring bring yourself

411
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 2: with bottle of water.

412
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 3: We got a drinking fount in here, we got bottle water. No,

413
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Speaker 3: bring your own bottle of water.

414
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Speaker 2: There was a time where I think it was a

415
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 2: visitors locker room, or maybe it was also the homelocker

416
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 2: and they had to use hand towels instead of full

417
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 2: sized tolls. They only had hand tols. It was TJ.

418
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: Huschman Zada. That said, the Bengals made us jockstraps the

419
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 2: only option for player, So Willie Anderson went out and

420
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: acts with his own money, bought jockstraps to the entire team.

421
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: There are times where the Bengals refuse to pay for

422
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 2: hotels for a team to stay at the hotel before

423
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 2: home game. Hell, look what they did with Boomer sizing.

424
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Speaker 2: If you, hey, we're gonna induct you in the Ring

425
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 2: of Honor, We're gonna give you two complementary tickets, and

426
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 2: if you want more, you got to pay for those.

427
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: And also we're not picking up the tab for your

428
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 2: travel or your accommodations. We saw the contract stands of

429
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 2: legendary contract stands and makes one wonder why are we

430
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: doing this? You wound up signing Trey Hendrickson anyway, you

431
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 2: wind up signing Shamar Stewart over that standoff, and what happened.

432
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 2: You're just consistently great among the worst teams in the

433
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 2: league when it comes to that, the NFLPA, the player

434
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: Sociation report cards. When it comes to the treatment of families,

435
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: Bengal's always been at the bottom. Remember when the players'

436
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 2: wives are breastfeeding their infants, their new boards on the

437
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 2: bathroom floor. There's no family area there now. Granted, is

438
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 2: that a luxury, sure, but you know, if the rest

439
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 2: of the league is doing it, you probably should do

440
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: that as well. And I bring it up because you go, well,

441
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 2: what do you mean, Sloan, that they're not gonna win

442
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 2: a Super Bowl in our lifetime? I think because the NFL.

443
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: There's such parody in the NFL, unlike just about any

444
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 2: other sport out there, that eventually you can stumble your

445
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 2: way into the Super Bowl. You can stumble your way

446
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: into greatness. And if you don't believe me, how did

447
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 2: the Bengals get to the Super Bowl? Well, they drafted

448
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: a guy named Joe Burrow. They got Jamar Chase. They

449
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 2: have lost for so long and so legendary that they

450
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: amassed unlosable players, players that are a lock to be

451
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 2: successful because they're so good, because that particular draft class

452
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 2: and that particular number one overall, Joe Burrow is so

453
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: spectacular that he will defy odds, can change a game

454
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 2: solely on his own ability. There are very few players

455
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: like that. The Bengals got at least a couple of

456
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 2: those guys. So you look at also the Bengals coming

457
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: out out of nowhere after multiple two win seasons, and

458
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: they came out And that's true. In the playoffs, it's

459
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 2: about health. It's us about sneaking under the radar because

460
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: you know you got an easier schedule and people don't

461
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: see it coming. Like the Patriots. Such a darling story

462
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: this year because no one saw that coming. I think

463
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: if you follow Footblay did because you know the pedigree

464
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: of Mike Rabel and a lot of the players they

465
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 2: had in Drake May fantastic. Now they lost yesterday. I'm

466
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: pretty happy as a Bills fan about that. But to

467
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 2: that point, you know you don't see that coming. I

468
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: think there's a big factor. Then you can prepare for

469
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: that going wow, Bengals with the Super Bowl last year,

470
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: we got it right for their schedule. Got toffer in

471
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: what happened? You missed the playoffs now three straight years,

472
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 2: and so because of your incompetence, because of the bare minimum,

473
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: eventually water will find us, eventually get lucky. And I

474
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 2: think as opposed to a pattern of hey, we've turned

475
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: the Corners a franchise and now we have rebuilt everything

476
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 2: to the point where we're going to see nothing but

477
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: success in a dynasty here in Cincinnati. I mean that

478
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 2: sounded good after Super Bowl and literally could have won

479
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: that game. It was a quarter of a second. It

480
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: was literally if Joe Burrow had a quarter of a

481
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 2: second longer, it's a touchdown.

482
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: Came over.

483
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 2: Of course, the Rams went on and got the World

484
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: championship and we didn't. And it's been downhill since that point.

485
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: I was peak, and we went downhill after that. Unfortunately,

486
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 2: you make playoff appearance which you get bounced, and you know,

487
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 2: three straight with that. So here we are again, and

488
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: I think I'm just absolutely convinced you do the bare minimum.

489
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: You may stumble in every twenty thirty forty years, but

490
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 2: you're not going to build anything that's lasting. And that's

491
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: where we are in Cincinnati. I think that that is

492
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 2: a factual, sound indictment of this franchise.

493
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 3: And it's not.

494
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: Lost on me that just days ago, literally last week,

495
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: the taxpayers of Hamlin County who got boned back in

496
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 2: the nineties, we're on the hook for remodeling. Pay court

497
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 2: of the two and two one hundred twelve thousand dollars

498
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: or two hundred MS or two hundredwelve million dollars, which

499
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: it was two and twelve thousand, two hundred and twelve

500
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: million dollars. And once the check was once we got

501
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 2: the dealing together, it's like, okay, we'll just go back

502
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: to the way things were now. Granted, okay, a few

503
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: things change, got a ring of honor. They opened it

504
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: up for the the Sane ex Elder Game a couple

505
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: of weeks ago. I thought that was great and that's

506
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: going on. But wasn't that wiped out yesterday by showing

507
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: up to your seats after all that and going, wait

508
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 2: a minute, we can't move the snow and then to

509
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 2: be told that, well, you just wipe them all.

510
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: You just wipe it off.

511
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: We're gonna have an usher. You just ask an usher.

512
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: You want to wipe your seat off?

513
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 4: You know?

514
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: By then it's it's a block ice, you know. Do

515
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: we expect the seats to be completely clear? And I

516
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: completely ice and snowflake for of course, not absolutely not.

517
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: But there are plenty of other plenty of other cold

518
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: weather teams that have a plan in place to deal

519
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 2: with it. I was talking to someone saying, well, you're

520
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 2: a Bills fan, you know how bad it is at

521
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: pay Corps or not. How bad is it high Mark

522
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 2: with the snow there like, well, you know, they pay

523
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: fans to come twenty dollars an hour to shovel snow.

524
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: They feed you, they give you food, they turn music on,

525
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 2: they try to make it a good time and community thing.

526
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: A lot of people show up on a pride to

527
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: clear that stadium up. Why can't the Bengals offer people

528
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 2: twenty bucks an hour and free food if they're doing

529
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: that elsewhere to go, Hey, we got to extraordinary circumstances.

530
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: We're fighting for our lives and help something like that goes.

531
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: It's not cheap, that's help helping build community. But you

532
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: got to pay somebody twenty bucks an hour, it's just

533
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: cheaper to go. Oh the hell with it? Where they

534
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: let the fans worry about themselves. That's horrible, absolutely horrible,

535
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 2: And you know today should be the day a lot

536
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: of other franchises would go. You know what, based on

537
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: that performance, it's elimination. You guys got blown out twenty

538
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 2: four nothing against the divisional rival. Just a couple of

539
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: weeks ago. You throttled throttled up. You couldn't put up

540
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: any points against this team against Lamar Jackson. You couldn't.

541
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: Shouldn't someone have to pay for that? In most cities,

542
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: in most NFL clients, the head coach would be canned.

543
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: Today would be the day. And I think you know

544
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: Zach Tayler's fine. No personal animus here. It's just the

545
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: fact that if you lay that kind of egg at

546
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: home with your season on the line, you shouldn't be

547
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: coaching the NFL. There has to be a head rolling here,

548
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: and whether it's his fault or not, it doesn't matter.

549
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 2: But that's also the central theme. You could bring any

550
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: coach in here, the naxtic man up, finding some new,

551
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 2: brilliant offensive mind, some sort of new head. Plenty of opportunities.

552
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: There's plenty of candidates out there that are well qualified

553
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: and many overdue to be NFL head coaches. There's no

554
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: shortages of people who want to run a team in

555
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: this league. But does it really matter who you bring in?

556
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 2: Does it matter who you bring in if the core

557
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: body itself isn't healthy and this team has been healthy

558
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 2: for a long time. How the history of the Bengals

559
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: in the last thirty years has not been good. It's

560
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: an aberration for them to make the playoffs, insane. They

561
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: went to the playoffs is insane. They went to the

562
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: Super Bowl. But again, water is self loveling, always finds it.

563
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: And you know, here we are again the futility of

564
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: the Bengals a third season where with this generational talent

565
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: that you have, arguably the best quarterback that the Bengals

566
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: have ever had, is wasting his prime years. Do you

567
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: think anything is going to change? And it's just it's

568
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: such a little thing, but it's a big thing at

569
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: the same time, going are you making this big a

570
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 2: deal over seats not getting cleaned off slan? I am,

571
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: because it's indicative of the culture of this franchise. You know,

572
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: you you disagree with the notion that they old nickel

573
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: and dime. They throw nickels around like manhole covers, and

574
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: they're notoriously cheap and frugal in that whole thing. But

575
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: that's so tired and all. It's so tired. But again,

576
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: it just keeps happening.

577
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: And we just had this.

578
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: I didn't bring it up much, but like, for example,

579
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: the Ring of Honor thing with Boomer.

580
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: You get two tickets.

581
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: After that you gotta buy your own and you're on

582
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: the hook for your own hotel and accommodations to induct

583
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: a guy who whose name is going to be up

584
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: there in that wall and that ring. For eternity, you

585
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: can't pick up the flight in the hotel for this guy.

586
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you're worth billions of dollars. It's that kind

587
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: of mindset that just continues to percolate from time to time.

588
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: The snow removal thing is small, but it's part of

589
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: a bigger picture that it's about profit over success. And hey,

590
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: if you can make a profit and maximize your profits

591
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: and not spend any money and still achieve success, then

592
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: the team wins. But if you're a Bengal fan and

593
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: you're expected to go and buy the merchandise, you buy

594
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: the tickets, you buy the parking, and then get to

595
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: the stadium to your seat, which costs a small fortune

596
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: to attend an NFL game, to support a team that's

597
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: literally on its last dying guests of the season to survive,

598
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: to go to the playoffs in a snowbell's chance. If

599
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: you have a snowball's chance, if you will and you

600
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: go and you support that team, you got to feel like,

601
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: why am I invested in? Why do I care more

602
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: than the ownership? And I think it's just indicative of

603
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 2: where we are and since then and have been. As

604
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: long as things change, they sure stay the same. And

605
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: we've seen this movie time and time and time again.

606
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: I thought you turned the corner of the Super Bowl,

607
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: and it turns out that was just Lady Luck rearing

608
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: her head. Lady Luck was on your side that season,

609
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: because since that has been typical Bengals. As they say,

610
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: I don't know quite honestly what or how things change,

611
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: But if they were a serious organization, would not they

612
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: be changing head coaches and also moving on from Duke Tobin.

613
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: I would say, who is also and probably has a

614
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: bigger hand in this whole thing. Do they look at going, wow,

615
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: we've got to get more bodies in here. We got

616
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: to take seriously the preparation, the scouting and all that

617
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: stuff should be in play. But they don't do that.

618
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: They add little pieces, but now big ones. And so

619
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: it stands the Bengals eliminated yesterday. But more important than that,

620
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: the fan experience took a big step backwards. Scott's loan

621
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: show seven hundred WW since.

622
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: Now do you want to be an American?

623
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: Tell me back on seven hundred w WELW I don't

624
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: have to tell you about healthcare costs justin like since

625
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: two thousand, they the number there has tripled in most cases.

626
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: And we're tired, and I'm just talking about healthcare, but

627
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: pharmaceuticals and everything. And we know what's kind of driving that.

628
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: Congress is allegedly addressing it and trying to make things

629
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 2: more affordable. I don't know how that's going to work

630
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: with the HSASH. It's a big question. And we've talked

631
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: to a lot of people at the receiving end, patients

632
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: like me and you, healthcare providers, doctors, nurses, et cetera.

633
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: Very well, very rarely we get a chance to talk

634
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: to somebody in the inside, and we do today.

635
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: It's Beth Kaiser.

636
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: She's the West region president for Anthem Blue Cross, Blue Shield,

637
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: joining the show. Good morning, How are you, Beth.

638
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 7: Good morning, Scott's nice to be with you there in Ohio.

639
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: Appreciate it.

640
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: So you know you hear the healthcare We don't have

641
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: to tell you what happened to the assassination of the

642
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: CEO in New York City last year, and a teams

643
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: people certainly have it out for big healthcare companies and

644
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: the like.

645
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: How much of that is on you.

646
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: I mean, you guys are caught up in this as

647
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: well to some degree, but it seemingly always the dirty

648
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: end of the stick is pointed at you guys.

649
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: Is that entirely accurate?

650
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 7: I would say that all stakeholders are filling pressure now

651
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 7: to have you know, the affordability of healthcare.

652
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 8: Be an issue.

653
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 7: And so you know what we say at Anthem is

654
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 7: Anthem Blue Cross, Blue Shield, is that unaffordable healthcare is

655
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 7: inaccessible healthcare. So it's a critical time for us.

656
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: What is the latest affordability to numbers that you guys

657
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: do internally show and how do our out of pocket

658
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: increases in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana compared to other states

659
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: outside the Midwest.

660
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 7: Gosh, you know some people follow the Rand study from

661
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 7: years ago, but certainly show that there's plenty of work

662
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 7: for both of our states to do. But just to

663
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 7: give you some facts, the US healthcare spending grew seven

664
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 7: and a half percent in twenty twenty three, reaching nearly

665
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 7: four point nine trillion, and as you know, that's continued

666
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 7: to escalate. Prescription drugs spending alone increase more than eleven

667
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 7: percent last year. So these trends are putting significant strains

668
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 7: own individuals, employers, and government programs.

669
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: And we also, let's face this demographic demographic issue. As

670
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: baby boomers get older and older, they're going to use more,

671
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: need more care, and there are few people at the

672
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: end to pay for that, and so it overwhelms the system.

673
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 2: And then you factor in people who need assistance, and

674
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: it it's even worse.

675
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 9: This is true.

676
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 7: So that's one of the reasons addressing people's health from

677
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 7: a holistic standpoint, looking at whole health is so important.

678
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's part of the Republican plan. But I

679
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: don't dismiss that because we all have a stake in

680
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: our health. But I mean, let's face it. If the

681
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: healthcare plan is, hey, take better care of yourself and

682
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: your incentivis to do so, that that's fine. But so

683
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: many people and it seemingly there's a story every day

684
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 2: about someone who's you know, the drug cost or something

685
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: for their kid or a loved one is so exorbitant

686
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: they have to file for bankruptcy.

687
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 3: That shouldn't be happening, but it is.

688
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, And delaying and skipping care can affect people in

689
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 7: the healthcare system as well, So we have to keep

690
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 7: it affordable because if those health issues that individuals have worsen,

691
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 7: are they become harder to treat, they certainly become more

692
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 7: expensive as well, And so that a lot of people think, well,

693
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 7: that only impacts the individual, but actually it impacts more

694
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 7: than the individual's health outcomes. It puts a strain on

695
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 7: the broader healthcare system, and it drives up costs for.

696
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 8: All of us.

697
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: How do you determine who gets care for some specific

698
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 2: disease lets, I don't know. It might be I mentioned

699
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 2: the horror stories, right that someone who's denied care clearly

700
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: they're sick, it becomes a news story goes viral and

701
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden and maybe not you guys,

702
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 2: but another health care insurance making sure, maybe like yourself,

703
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: and others will go ay, okay, well we're going to

704
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: take care of this person because of public pressure and

705
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: the outcry. How are those decisions made at the granuar level.

706
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, I would say many employers, individuals, families are determining

707
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 7: how do they access healthcare? How do they make it affordable?

708
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 7: And so we are addressing that by first looking to

709
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 7: see the factors that are causing the increased health care costs.

710
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 7: And those factors include an aging population, people with increased

711
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 7: chronic conditions like you mentioned Scott, escalating drug prices, provider consolidation,

712
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 7: fraud and abuse, as well as ongoing legislative changes. And

713
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 7: then we're working to address that with the stakeholders that

714
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 7: you mentioned as well.

715
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 3: She's Beth Kaiser.

716
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: She's a president of Blue Cross Blue Shilds and and

717
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 2: Blue Cross Blue Shield West Region president. Talking about health

718
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: care costs and the insurance end of this thing, one

719
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 2: of the other elements here is consolidation. We've seen that

720
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: accelerate tremendously here in our region, Beth, And how is

721
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 2: that does that help with rates? And we also worry

722
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: about rural areas too. We're in Cincinnati, you're out in Indy,

723
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of country between us and you

724
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 2: and across both of these states as well as Kentucky

725
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: where rural hospitals and clinics are closing a record amounts.

726
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: How do we address that?

727
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, And unfortunately, you know a lot of people think

728
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 7: just what you mentioned that when healthcare providers going together,

729
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 7: it may be lower costs, but often it means that

730
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 7: patients have fewer choices and the prices actually go up.

731
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 7: So what we're doing at ANT and Blue Cross Blue

732
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 7: Shield to address those challenges is we're prioritizing strategies that

733
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 7: protect affordability and enhance the value for our members. And

734
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 7: the way we're doing that is we're creating benefits and

735
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 7: contracts with our provider partners. It give people access to

736
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 7: mini quality providers and at the same time, we're helping

737
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 7: focus on the think using AI and data to make

738
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 7: sure that we're cutting ways and avoiding unnecessary treatment, which

739
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 7: also helps keep calls down. But when I speak specifically

740
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 7: to waste and fraud and waste, there's things that now

741
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 7: with AI as well as that we're allowed through billing

742
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 7: to look at for unusual charges that may have occurred

743
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 7: in the system, such as phantom billing where they're built

744
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 7: for a service that didn't occur, double billing where they're

745
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 7: bill twice, and then upcoding where they're charged for a

746
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 7: service at a higher rate than what was provided.

747
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 2: And one of the things you hear from government on

748
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: this Beth is waste frawed abuse, waste fraud abuse constantly.

749
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: But you know, I always contended that if you're a

750
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: business like you are, and you're in the business of

751
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: providing healthcare, but you have to be profitable, uh in

752
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: you you probably do a better job than anyone as

753
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: far as that and making sure that those people who

754
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: are using the care, or vendors particularly are getting what

755
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: they deserve, but not more or less.

756
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 5: We do.

757
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 7: It's important though, I mean, you know, we want to

758
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 7: make sure or we're looking at individuals and members in

759
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 7: their whole health, so helping them remain healthy longer in

760
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 7: life and helping them have the tools and the support

761
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 7: they need. Where in the past we were much you know,

762
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 7: we were known health plans, were know more for you know,

763
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 7: just managing the quality, the costs and administration of billing.

764
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 7: We feel at Anton Blue Cross we shield that we

765
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 7: have a larger role to play.

766
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: Let's segue to pharmacy benefits. That's a big one PDM's right.

767
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: Pharmacy benefit managers not quite sure what they do, but

768
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 2: they drive the cost up. That is the constant cry.

769
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: I guess that you probably hear. What percentage of premium

770
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: increases can you attribute to prescription drug costs and specifically

771
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: how do.

772
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 3: You address that?

773
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mentioned just a minute ago that the prescription

774
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 7: drug spending alone has increased more than eleven percent from

775
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 7: last year. But what specifically, we've been focused on negotiating

776
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 7: lower costs around specialty pharmacy as well. That's an important

777
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 7: area for us, and our responsibility is to negotiate lower price.

778
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 2: You know that's the model, but seemingly prices continue to

779
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 2: spiral upward. Where's that coming from?

780
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, I would just say that. I mean, we all

781
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 7: want we all want access to the best and the latest,

782
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 7: and we want to make sure we give our members access.

783
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 7: So we feel like as we negotiate for better drug costs,

784
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 7: especially around the specialty costs, that we can bring those

785
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 7: costs down.

786
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: I've had this happen personal experience, family experience with this

787
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: to where there's times where insurance and we're Anthem Blue

788
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: Crossbow Shield where we work here at iHeart and have

789
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: very good coverage. I can't complain some people obviously you

790
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: don't have that. Maybe your experience varies, but pay you

791
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: a fair amount of money for that. Absolutely. When it

792
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: comes to the pharmacy, though, I've noticed at times where

793
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: we'll go in and say, okay, here's your prescription, Well

794
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: how much do I pay out of pocket? And it's

795
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 2: less or if I use something like good our ax

796
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: with which is like a discount. Why would that occur

797
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: if indeed we're negotiating the lowest prices? Why do Why

798
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: are medicines cheaper if you get them out of pocket

799
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: or use a discount?

800
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that it depends upon the individuals. So

801
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 7: in your case, I mean, this is the reason it's

802
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 7: so important for us to be talking about affordability because

803
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 7: without I mean, the individual's portion of being engaged and

804
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 7: involved in their health and understanding what tools, what discounts,

805
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 7: what their benefit structure looks like, helps them to be

806
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 7: a more empowered member and to your point, be aware

807
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 7: of costly options.

808
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

809
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: We're talking to Beth Guiser this morning on the Scots

810
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: Loan Show seven hundred Wow. She's a regional president for

811
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield talking to Ensure about what

812
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: can be done about high costs and always, almost always

813
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: we blame the insurance companies, but there's a lot driving

814
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 2: that as well, and we're kind of getting into this

815
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: morning here on the show in a limited time that

816
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 2: we have. One of the other questions too, is surprise

817
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: medical billing. You know, Trump in his first term said, hey,

818
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: we know we're going to disclose prices, you're going to

819
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: know what you're get coming in, and still most of

820
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: those have not been hit. That is a huge complaint

821
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: before federal legislation, and we've had a you know, the

822
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 2: President doing that and moving even more I think in

823
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: this term to do that. But we're still getting unexpected

824
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: bills and costs despite the reforms. Why does that remain problematic?

825
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, I would just say, first, we fully support the

826
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 7: No Surprises Act because the intention was for it to

827
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 7: protect patients from receiving surprise to healthcare bills. But as

828
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 7: you mentioned, Scott, there have been some issues, some unintended consequences,

829
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 7: some fraudulent behavior that have unintentionally raised those costs. And

830
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 7: so we're committed at Vans and Blue Cross Blue Shield

831
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 7: to fixing the No Surprises Act. And in twenty twenty six,

832
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 7: we'll introduce the policy with hospitals for curb out of

833
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 7: network specialists billing through in network facilities and so this

834
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 7: will aid those specialists in wanting to join our networks,

835
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 7: which will lower patient costs and whole facilities accountable for

836
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 7: repeated non emergency use of out of network and so

837
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 7: that will drive down healthcare call uh pers. So you

838
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 7: can't do that, Scott though without faultful collaboration with our

839
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 7: hospitals and our providers. Right right now, that's the key

840
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 7: path to our affordability.

841
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 2: Well, you have the collaboration, and I know there's price

842
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: transparency tools out there and they're required, but the data

843
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: and maybe it's because it's new, few consumers use them effectively.

844
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: Are they confusing? And you know what's driving that? Are

845
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: more people adopting it or just simply they don't know.

846
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 7: We're seeing adoption, least specifically with our Sydney app. We're

847
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 7: seeing great adoption because because of the unaffordability, many members

848
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 7: are wanting to understand their benefit options.

849
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: Beth, I brought this up before, and I would love

850
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: your unvarnished point of view on this. You know, I

851
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: go to my dey, we go to our doctor. You

852
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: look in there, Okay, I've got a doctor. Maybe he

853
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: has a PA or a nurse or something like that.

854
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: And then you have five full of five people who

855
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: just handle coding and billing and insurance and medicare and

856
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 2: medicating and all that stuff, and as we know, it

857
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: drives costs up. I always use the parallel to you know,

858
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 2: you bring your dog into a vet and you know,

859
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: canines felines use some and sometimes the same medicine or

860
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: overlapping meds, and you look at that, go, Okay, that's

861
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: pretty affordable my dog, cat or whatever comes to me.

862
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: There's paperwork, there's bills that come for the next six, seven,

863
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: eight months, and you forget what they're for, and it's

864
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: this whole mess. If we simply took the edict and

865
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: made it an edict for employers in America, Listen, you're

866
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 2: no longer in the business of providing health insurance, can

867
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 2: offer health insurance. You got buy to the free market.

868
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: Is that better for you guys? Is it better for

869
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 2: the patient?

870
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 7: I mean, I believe that the reason that we want

871
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 7: to make sure people remain covered is because if it

872
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 7: becomes unaffordable for individuals. In some cases, many people are

873
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 7: very reliant on their employer to help subsidize their healthcare call.

874
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 7: And again, as I mentioned earlier, if unaffordable healthcare will

875
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 7: become inaccessible health care, so it's important that they get

876
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 7: the resources they need. And I think to your point

877
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 7: on data, and I mean, how we need to become

878
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 7: more efficient and effective with the way we work in healthcare.

879
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 7: That's the job for all of us, and we're doing

880
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 7: our part at anteon Blue Cross, Blue Shield by adopting AI,

881
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 7: by adopting new data technologies, and providing coordination with our

882
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 7: provider partners so that we have access to the whole view,

883
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 7: to the whole health view of you, Scott, so that

884
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 7: we can see your health holistically and that we can

885
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 7: help aid in keeping you healthier longer.

886
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 9: Right.

887
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 2: But I guess the question is more about compliance and

888
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: things like you. You still have to obviously address compliance issues,

889
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: but it seems there's a lot of things elements involved,

890
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: particularly the government in our healthcare. Why can't I just

891
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: buy a plan directly from you and like minded people

892
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: do that? I think we'd say have enough money in

893
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: the long run to be able to take care of

894
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: the indigen and the people who really need it. Looking

895
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: I had five years, what do you? And it's just

896
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: going to continue to get worse. I mean we're going

897
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: to start to see things level off. Or is it

898
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: just simply a matter of demographics that I started with,

899
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 2: where you're going to see baby boomers as they age

900
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: out and eventually pass, we have a younger generation coming

901
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: in replacing them as old folks, and so it goes.

902
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: Is it simply just a numbers game that way, or

903
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: is it going to level out in the next five

904
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 2: or ten years.

905
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 7: Well, my optimistic to you, Scott is that we're going

906
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 7: to work together the stakeholders. They appreciate how urgent this is.

907
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 7: Individuals understand that they certainly can access individual plans, but

908
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 7: many again are reliant on the benefits and the subsidies

909
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 7: that they have in place today. So we've got to

910
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 7: make sure. You know, it's a delicate issue, right, But

911
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 7: what I would say as a society, and what I'm

912
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 7: hoping that in the next few years that will come

913
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 7: together as stakeholders, is making the healthy choice the easy

914
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 7: choice and allowing individuals to have more control over their

915
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 7: health and their healthcare calls.

916
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that doesn't mean prices are going now. That's

917
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 2: the biggest concern, and you know, we're probably pretty bad

918
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: about that ourselves, and you know, you led with and

919
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: it's a good point. If we took better care of ourselves,

920
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 2: eight better you know, exercise, did all that stuff, then

921
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 2: we'd need less health care. It makes it less expensive

922
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 2: for everyone. But we don't do that. But it's not

923
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 2: like we're alone. Other countries have the same problem, and

924
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 2: yet here in America, our health care costs are out

925
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: of control. Administrative costs in the US are substantially higher

926
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 2: in other countries. What percentage of premium dollars goes to

927
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: administration versus.

928
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 7: Actual care, you know, that would be dependent upon the situation.

929
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 7: But I'm not sure Scott, if you're aware that the

930
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 7: majority of employers are self insured. So, and specifically in

931
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 7: the states. I'm in Indiana next to you, ninety percent

932
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 7: of our employers are self insured. So what that means

933
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 7: is they're paying directly for the cost of a procedure.

934
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 7: And as there's a small admin fee that goes on that,

935
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 7: and as you know, health plans are regulated and the

936
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 7: cost that we can charge for that is regulated by

937
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 7: our government.

938
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that all factors into the cost as well,

939
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: because the regulation adds a little bit more overhead in that.

940
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: I guess that's the initial point. As it seems there's

941
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: a lot of hands in the cookie here. There's a

942
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 2: lot of money to be had here, but at the end,

943
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 2: consumers suffer, and some people and I'm making the decision

944
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: to go without healthcare, especially during these times where we

945
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: talk about the ACA and all that being in jeopardy.

946
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 2: Beth Kay is here West Region President for Anthem Blue

947
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 2: Crossbowshield out of Indianapolis. Thanks again for the time, Beth,

948
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: appreciate it.

949
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,800
Speaker 7: Thank you so much, Scott, and I would encourage individuals

950
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 7: that are interested in this topic to go to our website.

951
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 7: It's www dot Anthem dot com. Forward slash Affordability in Ohio.

952
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 7: Thank you Scott so much for the conversation.

953
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 2: Well check news at about four or five minutes on

954
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: the big one and the very latest of course on

955
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: the shocking death of Rob Reiner. He and his wife

956
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: murdered last night, well yesterday afternoon, I believe, with their

957
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 2: home in Brentwood, California. So full details on that, of course,

958
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: the shootings in Australia as well at Brown University. We

959
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: continue to follow all that stuff and more here and

960
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 2: these dangerously cold temperatures are about to change for the

961
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: better in the coming hours as well.

962
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: It's all ahead with news.

963
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: Scott Sloane returns with mental health Monday, and Julie h

964
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: just ahead on seven hundred WW.

965
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: Everyone needs alb every on then and she's here to

966
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: help us get our heads.

967
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 9: Right.

968
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 2: This is Mental Health Monday with mental health expert Julie Hattershire.

969
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,959
Speaker 2: Now we started us back in COVID and continues on today.

970
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 2: Of course, mental Health Monday every Monday morning, because let's

971
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: face it, it's the coldest day of the year so far,

972
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,479
Speaker 2: and you're back at work.

973
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 3: What is there to be excited and hopeful about?

974
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 2: I ask, unless you are one of those just deranged

975
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: individuals like Julie Hattersh here that's happy all the time,

976
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 2: which I don't understand. Her happiness makes me miserable.

977
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 10: This is what this does make miserable.

978
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 3: How are you, friend?

979
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 11: You?

980
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 10: Good morning, my friend. I'm great, thank you. I'm in

981
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 10: South Carolina right now, and it's sunny and thirty one,

982
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 10: so slightly warmer than Cincinnati.

983
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 3: This find of one likes you.

984
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 2: You just drop that nugget in there. Yeah, it's thirty

985
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: it's terrible, Ryan, we are you. I'm in South Carolina.

986
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 2: It's thirty one.

987
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: What do we gather?

988
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 10: Well, I mean that's cold for South Carolina. They're treating

989
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 10: it like it's really cold for them.

990
00:48:59,719 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

991
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the way down to the Florida for that matter.

992
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: Outside of the forecast. Let's get into this new sleep

993
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: study that's come out here too, and the connections only

994
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: sleep in mental health.

995
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: What's the data showing.

996
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 10: Well, So I thought this was a good thing to

997
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 10: do because so many of us don't get enough sleep,

998
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 10: and so many of us think that we don't really

999
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 10: need sleep. I mean, I hear a lot from my

1000
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 10: clients I'll sleep when I'm dead. They've got things they

1001
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 10: want to accomplish and things they want to do, and

1002
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 10: they've got busy lives.

1003
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 6: But the more and more we.

1004
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 10: Learn about the connection between sleep and mental and emotional

1005
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 10: and cognitive health, the more important it becomes to get

1006
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 10: seven to eight to nine hours of good sleep most nights.

1007
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: And there's a.

1008
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 10: New sleep study out several actually that are really starting

1009
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 10: to hone in on the connection between sleep and depression,

1010
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 10: sleep and anxiety, and sleep and dementia, which I think

1011
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 10: is really important for those of us who are in

1012
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 10: our forties, fifties and six because early onset dementia seems

1013
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 10: to be on the rise in our country, and one

1014
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 10: of the theories is that it may have to do

1015
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 10: with how little sleep we actually get and how poor

1016
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 10: quality our sleep is when.

1017
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 6: We do get it.

1018
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 2: Sleep is relative though some people need ten hours, some

1019
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 2: people can get by with three or four allegedly, what's

1020
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 2: the truth.

1021
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 10: Well, so, actually, one of the things that they're finding

1022
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 10: is that people actually don't perform well with less sleep.

1023
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 10: They become accustomed to it. So when you say get by, yes,

1024
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 10: they can get by with very little sleep, but they're

1025
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 10: not at their best and it takes a huge toll

1026
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 10: on them over the long haul. So you can become

1027
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 10: accustomed to very little sleep by you know, pumping yourself

1028
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 10: up with nicotine and caffeine and by just getting used

1029
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 10: to it, but it isn't actually beneficial for you. Your

1030
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 10: body doesn't truly adapt adequately to it. Most adults need

1031
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 10: between seven and nine hours of sleep. Some need more,

1032
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 10: a few need less, but most people, the best majority,

1033
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 10: seven to nine hours is the gold standard.

1034
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 2: There's a fine line here between back to mental health, Julie,

1035
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 2: in that you know, you get seven eight hours sleep,

1036
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: you're good, nine hour, seven nine hours, you said, But

1037
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: you start getting above nine hours for a lot of people,

1038
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,439
Speaker 2: that signals a different issure.

1039
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 3: That signals depression, doesn't it.

1040
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 10: If you want to sleep a lot, it can, It

1041
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 10: can definitely signal depression. It can signal anxiety as well,

1042
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 10: that it's just too paralyzingly frightening to get out of

1043
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 10: bed and.

1044
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 6: To face the world. But the quality of the sleep

1045
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 6: you get.

1046
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 10: Is as important, or maybe more important, than the number.

1047
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 6: Of hours you get.

1048
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 10: So if you're in bed sort of us sleep I

1049
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 10: use air quotes around that nine hours, but you're actually

1050
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 10: only sleeping four of that and the rest of the

1051
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 10: time you're kind of tossing and turning and dozing in

1052
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 10: and out.

1053
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 6: That's not the same as getting.

1054
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 10: Three complete sleep cycles, which tend to run about two

1055
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 10: and a half hours.

1056
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 6: Okay, So.

1057
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 10: The quality of the sleep matters just as much as

1058
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 10: the number of hours you get.

1059
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: Because the question is, you know, as a licensed mental

1060
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: health therapist, is you are how do you assess whether

1061
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 2: patients sleep problems are the cause of the mental health

1062
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 2: issues or it's the other way that the mental health

1063
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: condition is disrupting.

1064
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 9: Your sleep exactly.

1065
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 10: And in the past, we have more thought that people

1066
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 10: with depression and anxiety didn't sleep well. We thought it

1067
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 10: was more that the depression in the anxiety and our

1068
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 10: health condition came first and sleep was one of the

1069
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 10: impacts of that. What we're now understanding is that it

1070
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 10: works both ways, that poor quality or inadequate sleep can

1071
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 10: cause or exacerbate mental health issues, and poor sleep is

1072
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 10: a symptom of mental health issues. So when I'm talking

1073
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 10: to my clients about this, what I suggest is we

1074
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,360
Speaker 10: tackle the easiest one first, And for most people, the

1075
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 10: easiest one is Let's see if we can clean up

1076
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 10: your sleep hygiene. Let's see if we can get you

1077
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 10: more regularly getting said into nine hours of sleep a night.

1078
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 10: Let's take away screens at night. Let's cut down on

1079
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 10: the caffeine, let's cut down on the alcohol, and let's

1080
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 10: see what impact that has on the mood challenges that

1081
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 10: my clients are having. And because that is an easy,

1082
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 10: concrete one for most people to wrap their heads around,

1083
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 10: it doesn't often it doesn't require medication. Sometimes it requires

1084
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 10: some cognitive behavioral therapy, which works really well for insomnia

1085
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 10: and sleep disorders, but it typically doesn't require medication. It

1086
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 10: requires some habit changes, some lifestyle changes.

1087
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 2: And so when you do that to someone, say hey,

1088
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 2: you need to sleep more. And if they can do that,

1089
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 2: what changes in brain function do you see when they

1090
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: improve their sleep.

1091
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 10: Well, one of the things that sleep does, and we're

1092
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 10: learning so much more about it in the last few

1093
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 10: decades because we have functional MRIs, so we can actually

1094
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 10: put people in sleep labs, cook their brains up to MRIs,

1095
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 10: and watch what happens when they're asleep. One of the

1096
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 10: things we're learning that sleep does is it helps memory

1097
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 10: consolidation and it helps take out the mental garbage in

1098
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 10: your head.

1099
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 6: So if you get good.

1100
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 10: Quality sleep, it helps clear away all the clutter that

1101
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 10: keeps you from performing at your best, and it helps

1102
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 10: consolidate your thinking and your memories. So think of it

1103
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 10: as cleaning up all the papers on your desk and

1104
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 10: putting them in the right files, or on your desktop

1105
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 10: on your computer and putting them in the right file

1106
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 10: so you know where to find what you want when

1107
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 10: you're looking for it. That all happens in r EM sleep,

1108
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 10: BRIM sleep, and so people who get good quality sleep,

1109
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 10: their brains just tend to function more efficiently. They have

1110
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 10: less clutter they have to cut through to get to

1111
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 10: what they're looking for at night. It's like sleep cleans

1112
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 10: up your desk for you, or cleans up your desktop

1113
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 10: for you, so when you wake up, everything is where

1114
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 10: you can find it more easily, and it increases your

1115
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 10: tolerance for distress and irritation and frustration, so it keeps

1116
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,439
Speaker 10: you from blowing up quite as easily when things don't

1117
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 10: go your way. It helps you keep your mood more

1118
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 10: regulated and that's better for everybody in your life as

1119
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 10: well as for you.

1120
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 2: She's Julie hattersh here, our licensed mental health therapist, Mental

1121
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 2: health money in the Scotsland Show on seven hundred WLW

1122
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: and new studies showing that sleep and getting seven to

1123
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 2: nine hours is critical because of your mental health and

1124
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 2: your mental health will software what kind of things manifest

1125
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 2: when you get like a like to sleep you talk

1126
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: about mental health?

1127
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 3: Is it depression?

1128
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 10: Generally, depression is one, anxiety is one. Irritability is huge.

1129
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 10: Most people will get really cranky when they get sleepy.

1130
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 10: And if you think about the impact that has on

1131
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 10: your relationships. Let's say you're someone who's chronically sleep deprived

1132
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 10: and you live with other people in your life. If

1133
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 10: you're perennially irritable and cranky and short tempered, they're not

1134
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 10: going to like you very much and they're not going

1135
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 10: to want to be around you very much, which means

1136
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 10: that you're going to be more isolated, perhaps less connected,

1137
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 10: and less loved and less having less fun in your life,

1138
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 10: which just may life seem bleaker and can certainly lead

1139
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 10: to depression. The anxiety ramps up when you're not getting

1140
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 10: enough sleep, so things that would normally not bother you

1141
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 10: too much can take on an outsized importance. You can

1142
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 10: become frightened or easily startled, or easily flip your lid

1143
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 10: at things that don't go well, so you're just more

1144
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,280
Speaker 10: on edge much of the time, which decreases the quality

1145
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 10: of your life and the quality of your relationships, both

1146
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 10: at home and at work.

1147
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 2: So how do you balance those treatment recommendations if you're like, so,

1148
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:36,280
Speaker 2: let's say a shift worker.

1149
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 10: Yeah, shift work is really hard, and shift workers have

1150
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 10: their own protocol and there are several out there and

1151
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 10: they should be following it for how to get the

1152
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 10: best possible sleep under the circumstances. The easiest kind of

1153
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 10: shift work for people to adapt to is when they

1154
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 10: work and off shift consistently. So let's say they consistently

1155
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 10: work nights or they consistently work evenings, so that they

1156
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 10: can just adapt their life to it. The hardest is

1157
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 10: when they have to go from sort of normal daytime

1158
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 10: hours to evening or overnight hours and then back to

1159
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 10: normal daytime hours again, so things like blackout shade so

1160
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 10: that they can get sleep during the day. Sometimes medications

1161
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 10: like melatonin can help. That would be something they should

1162
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 10: discuss with a physician.

1163
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 6: Which I am not.

1164
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 10: Making sure that they practice their best sleep hygiene no

1165
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 10: matter what shift they're working, not trying to catch up

1166
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 10: too much with the things they don't do when they're awake,

1167
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 10: and not trying to catch up too much on sleep

1168
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 10: when they can so that they're off their schedule.

1169
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 6: But that one is really really tough.

1170
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 10: Luckily, that's a relatively small percentage.

1171
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 6: Of the population overall, but if you are one of

1172
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 6: those people.

1173
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 10: It's really hard, and there are actual professionals and protocols

1174
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 10: that can help you maximize and optimize for that.

1175
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 2: What about that teenagers talk about sleep schedules because we

1176
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 2: expect them to get up early to go to school

1177
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 2: at the exact same time their body clock says you

1178
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: should be going to bed because they're.

1179
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 10: Night outactly exactly, So teenagers actually need as much sleep

1180
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,439
Speaker 10: as children do, and children need a lot more sleep

1181
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 10: than adults do. They need closer to ten hours eight

1182
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 10: to ten hours. Teenagers actually need as much sleep. But

1183
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 10: the problem is that their clock, their biological clocks cir

1184
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 10: Katiean rhythm, shifts by about two hours later, and so

1185
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 10: they tend to stay up later. School tends to start earlier,

1186
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 10: and the reason for that, I've been told one of

1187
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 10: the reasons for that is so that the older kids

1188
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 10: are home when the younger kids get home from school,

1189
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 10: and or they've got practices or meetings in the mornings,

1190
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 10: and so they have to early, so they're chronically sleep deprived.

1191
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 10: We expect a lot out of them during the day

1192
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 10: in terms of school and sports, sometimes taking care of

1193
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 10: younger siblings, often working a job, and then when it

1194
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 10: comes time to go to added a reasonable hour, there's

1195
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 10: still two hours from being tired and from their bodies

1196
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 10: being tired. So teenagers have a really rough time. There

1197
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 10: are some school districts that are experimenting with a later

1198
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 10: start and a later end time for kids and finding

1199
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 10: that that has a lot of benefit to their ability

1200
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 10: to stay awake in school. I remember falling asleep with

1201
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 10: my head on the desk many a time. And also, yeah, yeah,

1202
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 10: stay awake in school, perform better in school, perform better

1203
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 10: in sport. It's challenging for a lot of other reasons,

1204
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 10: but some high schools are finding that that shift to

1205
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 10: a later start time is really beneficial for everybody involved.

1206
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 2: I fall asleep before during my show while I'm talking.

1207
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 2: That's to show you just how pervasive this whole problem

1208
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 2: is here when it comes to sleep, and so horrible.

1209
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 3: It's a terrible, terrible time.

1210
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: I think the reason why we forced kids to get

1211
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 2: up then and got laire and the outside their ball

1212
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 2: its class because it's to do it otherwise would be

1213
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 2: inconvenient for mom and dad, but also especially inconvenient for

1214
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 2: the teachers and the administrators because they don't They can't

1215
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: stay up that lad either.

1216
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 10: Right exactly. Yeah, we want kids to get up early

1217
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 10: and get on with their day. We want them to

1218
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 10: operate like we do in our lives with adults who

1219
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 10: go to work, but their biological clocks are very different

1220
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 10: than ours. And that does start to return back to

1221
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 10: adult hours in their early to mid twenties, but those

1222
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 10: teenage to early twenty years, they really are operating on

1223
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 10: a different biological clock than adults.

1224
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 6: Are most of the time. They will never be it's challenging.

1225
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll never be a solution.

1226
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 8: For the bus is coming, Boss, get up getting bass

1227
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 8: the boss.

1228
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 3: What parents do exactly eight years?

1229
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 7: Boss, that's kind of boss.

1230
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 3: She's Julie.

1231
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 2: That bus now right, the bus is coming. It's mental

1232
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 2: health Monday in the Scotsland Show on seven hundred w OLW.

1233
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: How much is sleep apnea involved? I mean, every time

1234
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 2: you hear this, okay, you're not getting enough sleep, it's

1235
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 2: got to be sleep apnea. I'm not saying it's over

1236
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 2: diagnosed anything like that, but how common is that from

1237
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 2: your experiences that that that is the core of interesting what.

1238
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 10: I've read is been actually underdiagnosed in certain populations. So

1239
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 10: one of the one of the things that is common

1240
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 10: for women.

1241
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 6: In menopause is sleep apnea.

1242
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 10: But because we don't snore quite as loudly as men do,

1243
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 10: generally speaking, certainly there are women who do. It's not

1244
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 10: it's not tested for and caught as much. It's about

1245
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 10: the lowering of estrogen lowers our muscle tone and our

1246
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 10: throat and our throat.

1247
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 6: Muscles collapse when we hit menopause.

1248
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 10: So sleep apne is underdiagnosed in some populations and adequately

1249
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 10: diagnosed in others. Tends to be overweight. Men tend to

1250
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 10: be diagnosed adequately with sleep apnea. But sleep apnea obviously

1251
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 10: contributes to all of the symptoms that we've been talking

1252
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 10: about that that poor quality sleep does, but it also

1253
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 10: carries with it an increased risk of physical problems like

1254
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 10: heart attacks and strokes, and cognitive problems, high increased risk

1255
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 10: of dementia and early onset dementia because of the lack

1256
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 10: of oxygen to the brain associated with sleep apnea. And

1257
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 10: that's not the same thing as associated with just plain insomnia.

1258
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 10: There's no lack of oxygen to the brain and insomnia,

1259
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 10: but in sleep apnea there is, and so it has

1260
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 10: long ranging consequences as well as the more immediate consequences

1261
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 10: that we are aware of.

1262
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 2: All right, connection between mental health and sleep and before

1263
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 2: you probably could even not hear that last segment, Goh, yeah,

1264
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 2: I get that, but it's it's a lot deeper than

1265
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:40,919
Speaker 2: you think.

1266
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 3: So talk to a professional. She's Julie hattersh here.

1267
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 2: She's our licensed mental health therapist in the Scotsland Show,

1268
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 2: practicing out of Clifton. Hey, Julie edb connected dot has

1269
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 2: let her be connected dot care. If you have a

1270
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 2: question or maybe a future topic for us to discuss.

1271
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:56,439
Speaker 2: She'd love to hear you, Julie. Thanks again, Well chat

1272
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: next week. Stay nice and warm down in the Carolinas.

1273
01:02:59,080 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: Appreciate it.

1274
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 6: Thanks.

1275
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, gotta go because the bus is coming. The bus

1276
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 2: is the bus is here. I gotta go, I gotta go.

1277
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 2: News is coming up in just minutes on the Big

1278
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 2: one seven hundred. Wo that includes the tragic and confusing

1279
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: murder of Rob Reiner and his wife. If you're just

1280
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 2: hearing this for the first time, they found his he

1281
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 2: and his wife both dead of stab wounds at their bed,

1282
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 2: and their son is now a prime suspect in custody.

1283
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 2: Will continue to follow that story as well. Just absolutely bizarre.

1284
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 2: Of course, we've had these cold temperatures, but for how

1285
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 2: much longer? I mean, we will get up to close

1286
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 2: to freezing today, but the rest of the weeks starting

1287
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: to look good. We got that, we got traffic, a

1288
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 2: lot of black ice out there. Just be advised you're

1289
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 2: gonna hit some of that today. If you're on the

1290
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 2: highways for suare a'ready hearing now day. That's kind of

1291
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 2: a steady drumbeat of those type of accidents from the

1292
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 2: police today, So just be advised. We'll do news and

1293
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 2: at eleven oh seven he's Kevin Werner from Ohioans to

1294
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 2: Stop Executions related to the Elwood Jones case, which County

1295
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 2: pillachers throwing Joe Dieters under the bus and Joe Deeters

1296
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 2: may respond to this whole thing nonetheless, is it time

1297
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 2: for the death bones to go away? Simply because of

1298
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 2: how inefficient it is and seldom used? It is Scott

1299
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 2: Sloan Show, Home of the Best Bengals coverage seven hundred

1300
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 2: WW Cincinnati.

1301
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 1: You Want to be an American Scott Bloon Show on

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Speaker 1: seven hundred and W well Wan.

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Speaker 2: One of the big stories that just happened is the

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Speaker 2: name Ellwood Jones. He may recall this had been Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: While he has become the twelfth convict in the history

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Speaker 2: of our state to be exonerated from death row after

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Speaker 2: Hamilt County Prosecutor County Pilach announced that she is dismissing

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Speaker 2: all and any charges against him, and nationally there are

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Speaker 2: over two hundred exonerations. We know how the death penalty

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01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 2: is supposed to work, but in practice doesn't work like

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Speaker 2: it should.

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Speaker 3: On that is Kevin Werner.

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Speaker 2: He's the executive director of Ohioans to Stop executions. Kevin,

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Speaker 2: welcome back.

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Speaker 3: How are you?

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Speaker 9: Thank you? Scott him Well, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is kind of, I don't know, a shocking

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Speaker 2: surprising news. In the case of Countye pilach mate saying no,

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Speaker 2: we should throw this out. Let's talk about this case.

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Speaker 2: Most of us weren't around back then. In nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: four when he was convicted for beating sixty seven year

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Speaker 2: old wrote to Nathan to death and blue ash it

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01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 2: was aggravated murder, robbery and burglary. Here we are now

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five and he's completely exonerated.

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Speaker 3: What's the narrative of that case? Refreshers.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, you know, missus Nathan was traveling into

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Speaker 11: the area, you know, some kind of family. I think

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Speaker 11: it was a wedding or a family celebration. And you know,

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Speaker 11: Ellwood Jones happened to work at the hotel where she

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Speaker 11: was murdered.

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Speaker 9: And so.

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Speaker 11: The narrative here, I think is that, you know, even

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01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 11: back in nineteen ninety four, there was all kinds of

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Speaker 11: evidence that mister Jones.

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Speaker 9: Did not commit this crime.

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Speaker 11: What happened though, I think investigators got that tunnel vision

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Speaker 11: where started to sort of try to make things fit

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Speaker 11: even when they did not, And it took decades for

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Speaker 11: all of the evidence to come to come out. And

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Speaker 11: what we know today is that four thousand pages of

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Speaker 11: documents were withheld from mister Jones, and within those four

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01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 11: thousand pages was all sorts of evidence that the viability

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Speaker 11: of other suspects, the fact that you know, he could

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Speaker 11: not have committed this crime. And so you know, thirty

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01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 11: years later, we have finally for him a result that

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Speaker 11: that you know, exonerates him. But you know, for the

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01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 11: Nathan family, I can only imagine that this is this

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Speaker 11: must be devastating. You know, they were told thirty years ago,

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Speaker 11: we got the guy, We're going to get justice for

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Speaker 11: your mom, for your family member. And you know, had

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Speaker 11: they not withheld the evidence that was withheld, we certainly

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Speaker 11: wouldn't be having this conversation today.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, granted the evidence was held the four thousand pages,

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Speaker 2: was there anything in there that directly showed that he

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Speaker 2: didn't do this? Because as I recall that he worked

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Speaker 2: at this hotel, he had a master key to the rooms.

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Speaker 2: There was bruising on the victim that aligned with items

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Speaker 2: found in his toolbox. Also the cut and shape, the

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Speaker 2: byte pattern on him because he had an infection, and

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Speaker 2: we know now that there's a particular bacteria that's only

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Speaker 2: present in human saliva, and this type of infection you

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Speaker 2: can only get from that type of contact. And so

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Speaker 2: a bite, definitely we see that president not all the

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Speaker 2: time because there's a particular bacteria he tested. He was

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Speaker 2: swabbed and tested negative I believe for that bacteria if

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Speaker 2: he carried himself. But this infection on his hand could

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Speaker 2: only be gained by punching someone, possibly striking their teeth,

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Speaker 2: punch in the mouth. And so those, as I recall,

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Speaker 2: were the circumstances that led to his conviction. Are those

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Speaker 2: disproven in the four thousand pages?

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Speaker 9: Oh?

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Speaker 11: What the four thousand pages show is that first of all,

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Speaker 11: there's hepatitis bee was not something that mister Joe's ever

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Speaker 11: had or contract, and that was part of what medically

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Speaker 11: made it not possible for him to be involved in

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Speaker 11: this in this offense. And so you know, I think

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Speaker 11: what we have to recognize Scott is that you know,

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Speaker 11: the investigatory techniques and the science that we have today,

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Speaker 11: and when we look at crime scene evidence, what we had,

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Speaker 11: what we haven't understand today, what we know today or

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Speaker 11: that the theories that we had thirty years ago have

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Speaker 11: been have been proven incorrect. Not related to this case,

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Speaker 11: but things like shake and baby syndrome, things like certain

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Speaker 11: kinds of bitemarks, things like certain types of uh, you know,

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Speaker 11: blood piping, which used to be you know.

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Speaker 9: Is it A, is it B? Is it a positive?

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Speaker 11: Well, now that we have better techniques to figure out

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Speaker 11: and use science to see whether or not someone is

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Speaker 11: in fact culpable or did play a role in a

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Speaker 11: homicide like those are the things that we need to do.

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Speaker 9: And I give the.

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Speaker 11: Prosecutor a whole lot of credit here because the easier

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Speaker 11: thing would have just to be to continue this case

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Speaker 11: and to continue the ape and continue to go down

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Speaker 11: the road. But I think what the prosecutor's office did

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Speaker 11: now was recognize that this is not in the interest

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Speaker 11: of justice and the evidence that we have today, and

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Speaker 11: when you stand that up next to the science and

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Speaker 11: the techniques that we use today, Joe clearly that mister

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Speaker 11: Jones could not have committed that offense.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I think you said something critical there.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people see this.

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Speaker 2: At the time, the prosecutor was Joe Dieters, and that

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Speaker 2: somehow that hey you know what, we just found a guy.

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Speaker 3: Let's pin it all on him.

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Speaker 2: You kind of intimated that's not what at least what

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Speaker 2: you're thinking is is the fact that the science has

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Speaker 2: gotten better over the years seems exonerated, not be because

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Speaker 2: of any necessarily miss misdoings on the part of the

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Speaker 2: prosecutors offer though, or are you making that contention still?

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Speaker 9: Well, I think it's both.

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Speaker 11: I think that both things certainly can be true. At

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Speaker 11: the same time, it's hard to square a voluminous number

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Speaker 11: like four thousand documents being withheld from a this was

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Speaker 11: just the case of our science was wrong. I think

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Speaker 11: that that the when you look back, you say, how

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Speaker 11: did this occur? I think both of those things are true.

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Speaker 11: I think investigators and prosecutors with held evidence that they shouldn't.

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Speaker 11: I mean, the court found that. That's why mister Jones

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Speaker 11: was granted a new trial that ultimately never happened. And

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Speaker 11: the second thing, of course, is that you know, evidence

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Speaker 11: today is different, and capital cases today, what would be

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Speaker 11: brought is the death penalty case today, if ever, vastly

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Speaker 11: different than the types of cases that were brought in

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Speaker 11: the mid to nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 2: Okay, makes sense, Kevin orders here. Executive director of Ohio's

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Speaker 2: Stop Execution Elwood Jones has just been exonerated from death

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Speaker 2: row in the murder of Rhoda Nathanson back in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety four and are beating death and evidence. Cornem was

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Speaker 2: with Hell in the court. The prosecutor sided with him

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Speaker 2: on this one. And I think there's people that still

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Speaker 2: think this is political. Connie Pilach comes in, Democrat, It's

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Speaker 2: going to go, hey, you know, I'm know there's a

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Speaker 2: different regime in town. I think some do you think

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Speaker 2: some politics are at play here? Or does that even

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Speaker 2: concern you because you're solely focused on justice.

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Speaker 11: I don't think that it's politics. I think that it's

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Speaker 11: a different view of the cases. Right is the prosecutor's

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Speaker 11: job to uphold the conviction at all costs?

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Speaker 9: Or is the prosecutor's job to do justice? And I

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Speaker 9: think that.

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Speaker 11: You know, when you have a changeover an administration, you

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01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 11: have a different set of eyes that are looking at

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Speaker 11: at at cases. And you know when you have things

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Speaker 11: like all of these documents was held, and when you

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Speaker 11: have you know, the science saying you know this, this

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Speaker 11: person could not have committed this offense, you know, doing

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Speaker 11: the right thing here with certainly to the charges. I

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Speaker 11: don't think it's political as much as I think that,

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Speaker 11: you know, there may be a different view towards these cases.

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Speaker 11: Is our job to just uphold the convictions at all costs?

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Speaker 11: Or is our job to actually figure out did we

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Speaker 11: get it right? And in those cases when we didn't

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01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 11: get it, it's the responsibility of the prosecutor's office to

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Speaker 11: set a course that can begin to make that right.

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Speaker 11: And I think that's what the prosecutor's office did last

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Speaker 11: week with the Elwood Jones case.

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Speaker 2: Maybe listening to this Kevin Werner and go, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: it's justice for Elwood Jones after all these years?

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Speaker 3: Is justice? So what about justice for rode to Nathan.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, that's a great question.

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Speaker 11: I mean what we see here with this case is

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Speaker 11: an example how the death penalty system fails across all sectors, right,

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Speaker 11: And we're talking about failing victims family. So, you know,

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Speaker 11: the trauma and sort of the readliving that that worst

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Speaker 11: day thirty years ago is now right back front and

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Speaker 11: center with the with the Nathan family, they probably have

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Speaker 11: more questions than anybody at this point. And so what

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Speaker 11: we see is when you deploy all your resources towards

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Speaker 11: this one thing, the death sentence that will likely never occur,

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Speaker 11: and you and you and you do that at the

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Speaker 11: expense of making sure that victim family members have the

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Speaker 11: resources that they need to move forward to heal, to

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01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 11: kind of put their lives back together after.

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01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 9: This kind of these kinds of events.

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Speaker 11: We're doing it exactly wrong, where we're not taking care

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Speaker 11: of the families who were involved in these kinds of

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01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 11: horrific offenses. If we flip the script and put the

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01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 11: resources toward those family members instead of trying to chase

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Speaker 11: death sentences, I think that the Rona family, for example,

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01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 11: would be in a different place today than they clearly are.

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Speaker 2: The other argument of the saying is is you're making

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01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 2: the case against the death penalty. I'm going, well, this

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01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 2: is an example. It's the two hundredth person, two hundred

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Speaker 2: and second person I think nationally to be exonerated. Ohio,

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Speaker 2: that this is happening again for the twelfth time. One

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Speaker 2: may turn around and go, well, this is what it

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01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 2: should prove. The system works right because you have an

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Speaker 2: appeals process, pellet process, you have interested parties, and so

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01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 2: we're not going to execute anyone on death row. Who

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01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 2: doesn't deserve it now. I think the other way to

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01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 2: look at that is go, well, does that mean we

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01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 2: have or will in the future, And that's a big

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01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 2: question mark.

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Speaker 3: We don't know.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, so you know, big picture, we're forty four years

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Speaker 11: into having this system. It doesn't work very well at all.

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Speaker 11: It gets the wrong person. This is the twelve persons

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Speaker 11: say there are other guys on Ohio's death row that

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01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 11: have really concerning claims of actual innocence. Right, it costs

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01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 11: an arm and a leg, and for what for thirty

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01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 11: years later to overturn a case that leaves one family

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01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:36,639
Speaker 11: trying to put their lives back together, the other family

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01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 11: trying to catch up on thirty years of lost time.

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Speaker 9: I mean, that's what this system does. All it does

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01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 9: is cause harm.

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Speaker 11: And so even if you say we're absolutely certain that

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01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 11: this person is we have the right person, you can

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01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 11: effectively hold that person accountable by a much less expensive

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01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,720
Speaker 11: sentence and one where we're never going to have the

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01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 11: one or did we execute the wrong person? Because Ohio

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01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 11: has come frighteningly close. You know, if mister if Governor

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01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 11: DeWine for example, had not caused executions and executions were

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01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 11: just happening as they as they had under previous governors.

1515
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 11: You know, could Elmwood Jones have been executed in the

1516
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 11: past seven eight years. Yeah, I mean, this is what

1517
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 11: we're talking about. And so the death penalty just risks

1518
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:29,679
Speaker 11: way too much and we're getting nothing in return except

1519
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,680
Speaker 11: harm to county budgets to victim family members, and.

1520
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 9: So we should stop doing it.

1521
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 2: It feels like the all against execution that you've kind

1522
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 2: of won the war of attrition are And I will

1523
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 2: point that out because years ago, when I was younger,

1524
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 2: I thought, yeah, death penalty, it's fair eye for an eye, Biblical.

1525
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 2: It's like, there's some crimes that are just so heinous and

1526
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 2: so gross that the only way to do this is

1527
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 2: to execute. And people go, well, it's it's murdered to

1528
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 2: it's not because there's an absence of malice. You know,

1529
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 2: the person who murdered that woman in Blue Ash in

1530
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 2: ninety four had malice. Issue is murdered. When we execute someone,

1531
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 2: there's no malice. It's sterile, right, You're not doing out

1532
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 2: of hate, you're doing out of justice. It's a different motive.

1533
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 2: That said, though, it confounds me that so many people

1534
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 2: in victims' families is what I worry about, And when

1535
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 2: you talk about justice is the fact they've got to

1536
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 2: sit around for ten twenty thirty years or more and

1537
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 2: sometimes never. The odds of the person on death row

1538
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 2: dying of old age is greater than them seeing the

1539
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,719
Speaker 2: executioner's hand, the needle, the electric chair, that the noose,

1540
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 2: whatever it might be, whether or the mechanism is and

1541
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 2: it seems like there's no justice there. For a long time,

1542
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 2: I was very pro death penalty, and I think the

1543
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 2: way things have changed where death penalty is not a

1544
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 2: death penalty anymore, essentially is a life sentence because you're

1545
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:42,559
Speaker 2: a lot more likely to die of natural causes on

1546
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:44,599
Speaker 2: death row or at the hand of another inmate than

1547
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,639
Speaker 2: you would be from the executioner's hand. If that's the case,

1548
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:50,080
Speaker 2: it seems like a tremendous waste of time, effort, and

1549
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 2: resources to continue fighting for something we don't use.

1550
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 9: That's absolutely correct, you know.

1551
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 11: And the other component that we have to think about

1552
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:00,680
Speaker 11: and we talk about executions and the death penalty, and

1553
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 11: you know what the outcomes are is we put a

1554
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 11: lot of state workers and a lot of state prison

1555
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 11: officials in positions where they are negatively impacted, and they

1556
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 11: have post traumatic stress, and they have lots of mental

1557
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:19,759
Speaker 11: health issues as a result of being part of the process.

1558
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,600
Speaker 11: And so you know, add that other layer to this

1559
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 11: and it's just clearly not worth it. It's clearly not working.

1560
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 11: And we have, you know, for more than forty four

1561
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:34,760
Speaker 11: years of evidence that shows us that, you know, one

1562
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 11: of the things we don't cost And I don't want

1563
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 11: to get ahead of what and where you know, lawyers

1564
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:43,599
Speaker 11: what they may do for on behalf of mister Jones.

1565
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 11: But you know, we talk about the expense of the

1566
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 11: death penalty. We don't count the wrongful conviction awards that

1567
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 11: people get for millions of dollars for being you know,

1568
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 11: on death row for thirty years. So like you know,

1569
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,719
Speaker 11: there's only going to be more more pain, There's only

1570
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:04,639
Speaker 11: going to be more you know, problems that come along

1571
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 11: with these types of cases. And so again we should

1572
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:09,599
Speaker 11: just stop doing it.

1573
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 2: He's Kevin Werner with ohioan to stop executions. Thanks again

1574
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:16,959
Speaker 2: for the time, Kevin, appreciate the insight, great conversation.

1575
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 9: Thanks Scott.

1576
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 2: We'll get a news update here in just minutes on

1577
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 2: the Scott's Long Show. And the pain continues the pain

1578
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 2: of being a Cincinnati Bengals fan. Is this a turning

1579
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 2: point for the organization? Which has been said a lot

1580
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 2: a lot in the last several decades. I've been a

1581
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 2: Bengals fan, But is this a turning point? With the

1582
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 2: loss yesterday and especially how the fans are too to

1583
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:40,680
Speaker 2: James Rapen is here, we'll talk about that coming out

1584
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 2: to heads for the lunch hour and Willie seven hundred

1585
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 2: ww Hoday Morning, Scott's Long Show, seven hundred WW. So

1586
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 2: with the munch how we're approaching one of the tops

1587
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:55,839
Speaker 2: of conversation, as always this time of year, will be football,

1588
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 2: and that will be the fact that the Bengals are

1589
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 2: now eliminated completely from play off contention. Yes, fans to

1590
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 2: get up early, clear ice and snow, off driveways, off

1591
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 2: cars by extra closed drive on icy rose, pay to park,

1592
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 2: pay for seats, and just last week County taxpayers out

1593
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 2: there on the hook for over two hundred million dollars

1594
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 2: for the pay Corps upgrade. And then you get to

1595
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 2: your seat and you have to clean them and then

1596
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 2: sit with your feet and your ass on more snow

1597
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 2: and ice to watch them lose twenty four to nothing

1598
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 2: to Baltimore and get eliminated for the third year in

1599
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:28,519
Speaker 2: a row. The Bengals will miss the playoffs with all

1600
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 2: this talent on offense for the third straight season. On that,

1601
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 2: James Rapine from Bengals Talk dot Com and Locked on Bengals. James,

1602
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 2: you were at the game yesterday, give me your take

1603
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 2: on the conditions.

1604
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:49,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was surprising. No on the seats as there was,

1605
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 8: And I totally agree with you. If I paid to

1606
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 8: go to that game and I was in the elements

1607
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 8: and doing everything that it took to get there, I

1608
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 8: certainly would expect my seat to close to it and

1609
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 8: that that wasn't the case. And then after that, fans

1610
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,640
Speaker 8: obviously rewarded with a store performance on the field, and

1611
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 8: it really was not the way you want to make history,

1612
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 8: but certainly the Bengals did.

1613
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I start to see the unraveling now. Granted, last

1614
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 2: two games here, Joe Burrow did not look like Joe Burrow.

1615
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 2: He said, one of the worst games he ever played.

1616
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 2: If you can't get up for an elimination game at home,

1617
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 2: and Joe Burrow loves says he loves playing in the

1618
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 2: cold and the pass. He's played very well in the

1619
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 2: cold over the last couple of games and maybe even

1620
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 2: since coming back from injury in the past two games.

1621
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 2: In particular, he doesn't look like Joe Burrow Joe. He

1622
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,559
Speaker 2: looks like the bengalized version of Joe Burrow. He looks

1623
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 2: like Carson Palmer, he looks like Andy Dalton. He started

1624
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 2: to turn into that guy. Granted it's a small sample

1625
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 2: size of two games, but he hasn't even officially become

1626
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 2: bengalized after yesterday.

1627
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 8: I mean I wouldn't even say two games. I think

1628
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 8: he was the best player on the field in Buffalo

1629
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:01,560
Speaker 8: for three quarters. Yeah, and that includes Josh as I

1630
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 8: wouldn't go full two games now, but no, he was

1631
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 8: awful on Sunday, and so bullvangalized. I wouldn't say that.

1632
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 8: My question would be why why did this team look

1633
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 8: like that? Why did they not have any answers at

1634
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 8: any point during the game and make any adjustments that

1635
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 8: worked in a winn or go home scenario? And that

1636
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 8: that's what's concerning to me, is they were a pickoff

1637
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:31,799
Speaker 8: from the jump. But someone needs to figure out something

1638
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 8: to get some points on the board and get some momentum,

1639
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 8: and they just never not once could do that, and

1640
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 8: I think that at this stage it's fair to stay

1641
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 8: there too. Joe Burrow centric for lack of a better term. Now,

1642
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 8: if Joe doesn't go, they don't go, and they need

1643
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 8: to be able to go, even if Joe had an

1644
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 8: off game.

1645
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:55,640
Speaker 2: Well NFL NFL's worst deference and several metrics here and

1646
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: that of course looked every part of it yesterday, although

1647
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 2: for you know, for the first half it was competitive,

1648
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 2: they were there, and then the wheels just fell off

1649
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 2: and it was too few and far between. They just

1650
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 2: simply couldn't score. Two interceptions, no touchdowns for Joe Burrow,

1651
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 2: two pick sixes in consecutive weeks. And this, by the way,

1652
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 2: also followed his side eye producing comments about not having fun.

1653
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:18,879
Speaker 2: I can't imagine it was fun for him yesterday.

1654
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 9: What does that mean?

1655
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, it certainly wasn't fun for him yesterday. And I

1656
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 8: think that's that's sick. Winning is fun. Joe's a winner.

1657
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 8: Joe's one, Joe one in high school, Joe one in college.

1658
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 8: Joe won early in his career here, and that's the plan.

1659
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 8: And so to think about this and to think of

1660
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 8: three straight years without missing the playoffs, like people in

1661
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 8: Kansas City are freaking out today because the Chiefs missed

1662
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 8: the playoffs once with Patrick Mahome, right, and obviously you

1663
01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 8: have the injury and everything like that. But I even

1664
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 8: look and I think of how all right, well, Brian

1665
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 8: Peyton Manning, they never missed the playoffs in Indianapolis. Never

1666
01:22:57,240 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 8: Now did they run into Tom Brady and the Patriots

1667
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 8: and they stubbed or telling the playoffs when they shouldn't have. Yes,

1668
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 8: but they were winning twelve games a year, and so

1669
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,719
Speaker 8: how in the world is this team with its talent

1670
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 8: not finding ways to win some of these games? And

1671
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 8: I mentioned Joe Burrow centric they went one in eight

1672
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 8: without Joe that that should be impossible. You should be

1673
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 8: able to go four and five without Joe. So you're

1674
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 8: not coming back and having to win out and all

1675
01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 8: these ridiculous, ridiculous scenarios that we've really had to discuss

1676
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:30,360
Speaker 8: for two years now. Oh, if they win out and

1677
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 8: this happens and the easter Bunny comes up, it does this, Well,

1678
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 8: they're gonna make the playoffs. Well, I don't want to

1679
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 8: talk about the Easter Bunny in December.

1680
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 2: It's like the Reds, you know, we got to find

1681
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:40,679
Speaker 2: other teams need to screw up for us to win.

1682
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 9: That's right.

1683
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, the Doctors has four guys and maybe we can

1684
01:23:46,479 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 8: get two hits in a row.

1685
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, If you win, you control everything.

1686
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 2: James Rapeing from Bengals dot dot com Lockdown Bengals hashing

1687
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:59,679
Speaker 2: up yesterday's cataclysmic disaster at pay Corps. Uh, the focus

1688
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:00,759
Speaker 2: should be on the franchise.

1689
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 9: You know.

1690
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 2: The entire team, as we all know, is built around

1691
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow. Okay, and Joe Burrow says, look, winning means fun.

1692
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,560
Speaker 2: I'm not having fun. I gotta I gotta win. I

1693
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 2: gotta have fun. Okay, So let's let's look at that.

1694
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 2: Examine that for a second. If you're not winning, that

1695
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 2: means you're not having fun. And if you're gonna keep

1696
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,600
Speaker 2: him happy, you've got to make it fun again and

1697
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 2: start winning. Today should be the day after being eliminated

1698
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,519
Speaker 2: from the playoffs, after being embarrassed twenty four to nothing

1699
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:29,679
Speaker 2: and showing no push on offense and especially defense. Should

1700
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 2: today if this team were serious about that, I'm serious

1701
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 2: about winning, would Zach Taylor and or Duke Tobin be

1702
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 2: fired sometime today?

1703
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,559
Speaker 8: I'm gonna answer. I'm gonna answer your question with a question,

1704
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 8: and it's the question that you have to ask any

1705
01:24:44,280 --> 01:24:47,639
Speaker 8: time you make a decision like that, do you think

1706
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:50,719
Speaker 8: and this is the question Mike Brown has to answer,

1707
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 8: But I'm gonna ask you, do you think Zach Taylor

1708
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 8: is the man to lead this team to a super Bowl?

1709
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:03,000
Speaker 2: I would say it doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter

1710
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 2: that you could bring in Andy Reid here, you could

1711
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:08,800
Speaker 2: bring in the ghost to George Hallis, you could bring

1712
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 2: in Bill Belichick, you could bring in any of those guys.

1713
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 2: I don't think it matters in Cincinnati, and I think

1714
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 2: it's because of what we're talking about. They do the

1715
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 2: bare minimum all the time, and the bare minimum because

1716
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 2: a parody in the NFL will get you a playoff appearance. Hello,

1717
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 2: we'll get you an AFC title. Hello, we'll get you

1718
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 2: to the super Bowl, and you're an eyelash away from

1719
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:28,920
Speaker 2: winning at all. That's not because of anything. I don't

1720
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:31,120
Speaker 2: think now that you have a sample here of missing

1721
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 2: the playoffs since that Super Bowl in the last three years,

1722
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 2: James Repene, I think what to show you is the

1723
01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:37,799
Speaker 2: parody of the NFL that anybody can get lucky once

1724
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:39,800
Speaker 2: and get into this is the fat was and I all,

1725
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 2: we've built this championship. No, the reason you got there

1726
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 2: was because you were so bad for so long. You

1727
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,800
Speaker 2: have massed so many to first round draft picks and

1728
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 2: first choice choice that you it was unbeatable by sheer luck,

1729
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 2: by your incompetence. You stumbled into this. That's the way

1730
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 2: the NFL is set up. But it wasn't sustainable. That's

1731
01:25:57,160 --> 01:25:59,519
Speaker 2: the issue. That is not that's above Zach Taylor.

1732
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 8: I think that's a good answer. So that's one, and

1733
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 8: this is how I would answer it. And should one

1734
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:09,600
Speaker 8: of those guys be out, I would not be against

1735
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,680
Speaker 8: getting rid of anyone in the building because this is

1736
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 8: a once in a lifetime. A lot of people listening

1737
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 8: haven't seen a quarterback like Joe Burrow with a guy

1738
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 8: like Jamar Chaf and will never see and I'm thirty

1739
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 8: four and I'm not sure i'll see it again type

1740
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,519
Speaker 8: of talent at Paid Course Stadium. I think Joe is

1741
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 8: the best quarterback in franchise history right now. I wrote

1742
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 8: a history book about the ben This is some young

1743
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:39,320
Speaker 8: nist guy. Just no, I've looked at the Kent Anderson

1744
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 8: years and Boomer and all those things and so you

1745
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 8: need to have that urgency. And you're right though, it

1746
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 8: doesn't matter who's there. If that person that you get

1747
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 8: isn't able to make you change, isn't able to push

1748
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 8: this franchise forward. And I think that's where the conversation is.

1749
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 8: Marvin Lewis did it. He pushed it forward in two

1750
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:00,000
Speaker 8: thousand and three when he got here. Obviously not far enough.

1751
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,400
Speaker 8: I do think that they've made some changes in the

1752
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:06,160
Speaker 8: Zach Taylor splash Joe Burrow era. Yeah, they need to

1753
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 8: whatever it's going to be, Maybe it is Zach, I

1754
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 8: don't know. But whoever's going to push them forward needs

1755
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,640
Speaker 8: to push them forward now. And it doesn't feel like

1756
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 8: they have all the answers in the building.

1757
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 2: Well, yes, it was an example bare minimum, right, we

1758
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 2: bare minimum requirements to remove snow from the seats for

1759
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:25,639
Speaker 2: the fans a week ago. We just spent over two

1760
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 2: hundred and twelve million dollars on extending the Bengals least

1761
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:30,680
Speaker 2: for another eleven years, with all the improvements going on,

1762
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 2: and they turn around and go, yeah, you clean your

1763
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 2: own damn seats off.

1764
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 3: It's no big deal.

1765
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:38,680
Speaker 2: Draymond Jones made some comments eye opening comments after the game,

1766
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 2: saying the Bengals weren't ready to play.

1767
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 3: It was too cold for them.

1768
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 2: There are times where guys take shots at teams and

1769
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 2: you go, it's them just chirping because of the division rivalry.

1770
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 3: I think he made some good points.

1771
01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 8: I don't think the Bengals are ready one bit. I

1772
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 8: think it was an uninspired per playments. I think they were.

1773
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 8: I think they were somewhere else, somewhere else. And yeah,

1774
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 8: the defense made some plays early, and you know who

1775
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 8: was making plays, Guys that had to be right there

1776
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 8: because they're playing for jobs and contracts, right And it

1777
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 8: was good to see Miles Murphy with a couple of sacks.

1778
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 8: Demetrius Knight Junior. I've been very critical of stepping up

1779
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 8: and making some plays early, and so do you know what?

1780
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 8: They should have been up ten nothing, thirteen to nothing,

1781
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:25,240
Speaker 8: fourteen nothing early in that game, and they weren't. And

1782
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 8: why weren't they? Well, the guys that Zach Taylor should

1783
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:32,840
Speaker 8: be winning with Joe Burrow, jamar Chie, these guys would

1784
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:35,600
Speaker 8: just were out of sync, completely out of sync. And

1785
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:41,320
Speaker 8: I don't know why, but that why is an indictment

1786
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 8: on the entire team and how this season has gone

1787
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 8: because they should have came out with their hair on

1788
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:50,960
Speaker 8: fire yesterday, putting out the snow on all the seats,

1789
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:52,679
Speaker 8: and it was the exact opposite.

1790
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was a letdown from beginning. And then

1791
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:57,639
Speaker 2: James Rapine this morning chopping up the Bengals twenty four

1792
01:28:57,640 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 2: to nothing elimination loss there four and ten, now no

1793
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 2: hope of the postseason. Three years of this and James

1794
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:06,559
Speaker 2: is over at Bengals Talk dot com, the only daily

1795
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:10,000
Speaker 2: Bengals podcast locked on Bengals, and the book entered the jungles.

1796
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 2: Of course, the Bengals drafted seventeen defensive players. I believe

1797
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 2: it was the number since twenty twenty two. And how

1798
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 2: many of those guys have panned out to you know,

1799
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 2: to show you it's not just Zach Taylor, it's within

1800
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 2: the organization itself. How many how many defensive studs canna

1801
01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 2: go wow, Okay, DJ Turner great?

1802
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:25,639
Speaker 3: Who else?

1803
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:32,360
Speaker 8: I mean that as of now, I do think I

1804
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:35,640
Speaker 8: do think that Miles Murphy is showing a promigrant and

1805
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:39,639
Speaker 8: he's gone from like a guy that you're wondering if

1806
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 8: he anything to oh, well, he can be a useful

1807
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 8: piece moving forward. And what his feeling is is interesting,

1808
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 8: and that's what the final three weeks of this year,

1809
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,479
Speaker 8: that's what it should be used for. I honestly, because

1810
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 8: there's gonna be a lot of talk about Zach Taylor.

1811
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 8: I don't think the final three weeks should matter when

1812
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 8: it comes to Zach Fays. I think we've seen enough

1813
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 8: and you're making a decision one way or another, do

1814
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 8: tob and same thing, right your whatever your decision is.

1815
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 8: I don't think the results of these final three weeks

1816
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 8: should matter from that standpoint, because you know what I

1817
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 8: want to do. I want to evaluate all these young guys.

1818
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 8: I'm not necessarily focused on the result of the game

1819
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 8: as much as I am. All right, well, how's Minles

1820
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:21,000
Speaker 8: Murphy progressing? How are some of these young guys progressing?

1821
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 8: Is Jordan Battle doing everything he can to be a

1822
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:27,200
Speaker 8: building block because he's had an up and down season

1823
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 8: and even yesterday, nice interception, but it happens three plays

1824
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:33,240
Speaker 8: after an awful misstackle where he should should have made

1825
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:35,559
Speaker 8: the play in the gap on the running back, so

1826
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:40,120
Speaker 8: that there are evaluation mode, for lack of a better term,

1827
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 8: is the way to describe it. But yeah, as far

1828
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:46,720
Speaker 8: as overall stars on defense, Yeah, you might have DJ

1829
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:50,759
Speaker 8: Turner and then as of now there's we're still star hunting.

1830
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,240
Speaker 2: I would say, yes, I guess and any Shamar Stewart,

1831
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:54,920
Speaker 2: you know, you look at some of the guys they

1832
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 2: drafted and go, okay, well, events is going to pay

1833
01:30:58,040 --> 01:31:01,519
Speaker 2: dividends and it hasn't. And again, you know, to the

1834
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 2: to the point you made about well, is it really

1835
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:06,680
Speaker 2: Zach Taylor, I don't know. We changed coordinators from lou

1836
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 2: Ana Aruma, who did pretty well until the Colts cell

1837
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 2: A Park by the way, no fault of his, I

1838
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:13,960
Speaker 2: don't think, but we have al Golden in there, and

1839
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:17,439
Speaker 2: the statistically the defense, well, I think they've regressed. I

1840
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 2: just again, you keep bringing guys in that's not the problem,

1841
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 2: and I don't think it's a problem that'll ever get

1842
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 2: fixed until the ownership realizes that they're the problem.

1843
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 8: Well, I think ownership made that change because Zach Taylor

1844
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:35,160
Speaker 8: said that's a change that needed to be made, and

1845
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:38,800
Speaker 8: that's my words, not back, but that's that's how I

1846
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:41,680
Speaker 8: kind of perceived it. And obviously it hasn't worked out.

1847
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:43,640
Speaker 8: Now are there reasons for that?

1848
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 9: Yeah?

1849
01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 8: I think so. I think the Bengals should have went

1850
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:49,800
Speaker 8: out and been more aggressive and free agency to your point,

1851
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:52,439
Speaker 8: and they didn't. And then in the draft it puts

1852
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:56,639
Speaker 8: unnecessary pressure on Demetrius Knight, Jamar Stewart and all these

1853
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 8: guys that, yeah, may end up being good players, but

1854
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:02,839
Speaker 8: you'll look at their pre draft evaluations, no one expected

1855
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:05,640
Speaker 8: them to be plug and play starters right away. Yeah,

1856
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:09,280
Speaker 8: And so that it's just a tough, a tough situation.

1857
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 8: Like I don't even know if al Goin's an awful coach.

1858
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 8: Obviously the Fats say he's an awful defensive coordinator in

1859
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:16,679
Speaker 8: the NFL. I don't know if that's the case because

1860
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:21,000
Speaker 8: of the talent issues. So what's wrong right now? Everything?

1861
01:32:21,439 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 4: Can it be fixed?

1862
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 8: Of course it can, but a lot of aggressive things

1863
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 8: need to happen for that to be the case. And

1864
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 8: I'm just not sure that the powers that be are

1865
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 8: willing to do that. They're still thinking about those seats,

1866
01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:35,880
Speaker 8: I think.

1867
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean those two things together, the abysmal

1868
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:41,040
Speaker 2: loss of seats and everything else. They are oblivious and

1869
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 2: they simply don't care about what everyone else thinks about them.

1870
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 2: That's been a consistency as long as I've been a

1871
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:46,800
Speaker 2: Bengals fan and.

1872
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:47,719
Speaker 3: You as well.

1873
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:49,639
Speaker 2: That's just as sure as the sun's going to rise

1874
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:52,120
Speaker 2: and the east said in the west, that's a given. Especially,

1875
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 2: I will say let me let me went at one point.

1876
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 2: I think it's especially true now that the least extension

1877
01:32:57,400 --> 01:32:58,439
Speaker 2: for eleven years is done.

1878
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,519
Speaker 8: I get it. I do get that, and that, no

1879
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 8: doubt was a huge factor in that building. I will

1880
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 8: say this, Mike Brown is the one that would sign

1881
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 8: off on any major change anything you're thinking of Zach, Duke,

1882
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:14,880
Speaker 8: anything like that. He'd be the person that said, all right,

1883
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:18,280
Speaker 8: we need to make this change. Not Katie, it's not Troy,

1884
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:20,200
Speaker 8: it's not whoever else you think might be.

1885
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 9: Mike.

1886
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:25,240
Speaker 8: He saw all those MPCs, he was there for that game,

1887
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 8: he saw against the division rival, with the season on

1888
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 8: the line, how awful that that performance was. That does

1889
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 8: hit them, they like he does take a note of that.

1890
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:39,639
Speaker 8: I'm not saying that it's going to be the difference

1891
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:41,360
Speaker 8: and Zach is going to be gone or this kind

1892
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 8: of I'm not saying that, but I do think that

1893
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,160
Speaker 8: that's probably the first time this season where I look

1894
01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:49,719
Speaker 8: at it and I'm like, all right, well, what's your excuse?

1895
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 9: You had?

1896
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,800
Speaker 8: Joe? The seasons on the line. You're at home. It's

1897
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 8: the team to be thirty two to fourteen two weeks

1898
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 8: ago and you get boat race and shut out for

1899
01:33:58,439 --> 01:33:59,679
Speaker 8: the first time in the Borough era.

1900
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:04,040
Speaker 2: If that's not a wake up call, James, I don't

1901
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 2: know what is now we see you wait, I mean

1902
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,640
Speaker 2: today the cases, man, it would be that like today tomorrow,

1903
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 2: that's a day where Zach and Duke Tobin especially, we're

1904
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 2: moving on from you guys. We've got to do something

1905
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:17,599
Speaker 2: to show the fan base that we actually care about

1906
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:20,680
Speaker 2: winning football games, not just making money. But here's me

1907
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:23,839
Speaker 2: and you and everyone listening holding their breath. James, appreciate

1908
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:26,000
Speaker 2: as always. We'll talk again next week, win or lose.

1909
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:26,799
Speaker 2: Will you be here.

1910
01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:28,599
Speaker 9: All wait?

1911
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 2: I'm always. I appreciate you, buddy. Thanks again, Have a

1912
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:35,320
Speaker 2: great day. James Rapine over at SI's Bengalstalk dot Com

1913
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:38,600
Speaker 2: and Lockdown Bengals podcast. Scott Sluan Show with Willy on

1914
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:40,680
Speaker 2: the Way to Pick It Up and See Gate continues

1915
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 2: on the Home of the Best or Worst Bengals covered

1916
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 2: seven hundred w Dowt Cincinnat