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Speaker 1: Enter this nation on our website.

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Speaker 2: Bank that's bank.

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Speaker 3: Enter it now you've found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 1: All right, here we go. What's up. Good afternoon, I'm

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Speaker 1: all this is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank you for listening.

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Speaker 4: We're broadcasting from Oakley Greens, which we have. One of

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Speaker 4: the things we love about broadcasting from Oakley Greens is

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Speaker 4: we get a chance to know the staff, we get

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Speaker 4: a chance to know the people here, we get a

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Speaker 4: chance to learn about them.

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Speaker 1: And boy, that just happened during the break.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure how much any of that is for air,

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Speaker 4: but you know you could take part in that if

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Speaker 4: you come on out to Oakley Greens. Typically on Tuesday,

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Speaker 4: our friend Paul Danner Junior from the Athletic and the

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Speaker 4: Growlar podcast is here with us at Oakley Greens. But

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Speaker 4: the Bengals play on Thursday, and so today is like

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Speaker 4: the big heavy work day.

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Speaker 1: The players are available, the locker room is open.

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Speaker 4: Paul's got a right, he's got a podcast, and so

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Speaker 4: he doesn't have time to get here and hang out

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Speaker 4: with me. But because he's the best, still kind enough

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Speaker 4: to give us a few minutes on the phone.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Paul, Hello, MO, how are you? I?

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Speaker 3: I gotta say that was very intriguing. I really wish

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Speaker 3: I was there to know what you are referencing. You

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Speaker 3: just learned about the fine people at Oakley Greens before

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Speaker 3: I came on.

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Speaker 1: When you're here next week, I'll give you a synopsis.

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Speaker 2: Okay, good, good. I just I'm very intrigued.

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Speaker 4: So is anything anything big or newsworthy happening down there

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Speaker 4: we need to know about?

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Speaker 3: Well, maybe the absolute crossroads of the season is happening

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Speaker 3: in two days.

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Speaker 2: If you're interested in that.

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Speaker 3: That's a fairly important, fairly important game here. You don't

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Speaker 3: really expect to be saying those types of things this early,

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Speaker 3: but we're kind of accustomed to that around here lately,

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Speaker 3: aren't we are? We are late early around here pretty

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Speaker 3: consistently now, third year in a row, we're dealing with this.

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Speaker 2: But it does feel.

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Speaker 3: Like you either show you've got some fight and you

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Speaker 3: can find some semblance of offense and defense and can

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Speaker 3: deliver a blow to the.

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Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Steelers, or the Pittsburgh Steelers.

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Speaker 3: Are about to run away and hide to the AFC

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Speaker 3: North and you're not going to have any stay in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this feels like game on versus game over.

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Speaker 4: Three and four, it's game on, and you get the

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Speaker 4: mini buy chance to breathe. The Jets are coming here,

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Speaker 4: obviously a winnable game, and we start to talk about

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Speaker 4: the AFC, maybe the AFC North Pittsburgh doesn't run away

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Speaker 4: and hide two and five, and it's who are they

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Speaker 4: trading and what can they get for Trey Hendrickson and

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Speaker 4: how bad might this get? Like three and four versus

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Speaker 4: two and five, The difference is more than one game.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's already on the verge of maybe being

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Speaker 3: too much when you just consider.

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Speaker 2: The uphill path that this team has right now.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you just they're not very good defensively.

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Speaker 2: Their offense is this.

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Speaker 3: Like construction project around Joe Flacco getting up to speed

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Speaker 3: here and you see some signs of life in it,

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Speaker 3: but this is you know, Joe Burrow is not work

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Speaker 3: walking through that door anytime soon. And so the idea

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Speaker 3: that they're just gonna start ripping off a long streak

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Speaker 3: of wins and blow past the Pittsburgh Steelers is just

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Speaker 3: not reality.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna have to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers.

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Speaker 3: They're gonna have to hang around and hope that that

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Speaker 3: team starts to struggle a bit and gain some momentum

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Speaker 3: with Laco at quarterback, and I just it felt like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how you felt about it, Mo, but

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Speaker 3: to me, everything about Sunday felt like half real game,

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Speaker 3: half preseason game.

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Speaker 2: It was it felt like it was a bridge to

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Speaker 2: this Thursday.

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Speaker 3: Like they needed Joe Flacco in there and playing that

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Speaker 3: game so that he could go beat Pittsburgh on Thursday.

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Speaker 3: And that was you know, and even you can talk

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Speaker 3: and we'll talk plenty about the Barrett Carter decision, it's

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Speaker 3: go go get him in there and see what he's

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Speaker 3: got and maybe he can help you a part of

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Speaker 3: the answer, and he could have a game under his

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Speaker 3: belt when he goes to play Pittsburgh at.

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Speaker 2: Home on Thursday.

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Speaker 3: It's this recognition that this is where the path had

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Speaker 3: to be. It has to be through winning this game.

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Speaker 3: And it felt like everything about that was building towards

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Speaker 3: Thursday night in a game that they get frankly have

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Speaker 3: to hack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The only way I'll part with what you just said

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Speaker 4: is I don't think it was a half preseason game.

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Speaker 1: That was a full preseason game.

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Speaker 4: I was I'm not gonna say uninterested in the result,

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Speaker 4: I thought they had no chance of winning. To me,

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Speaker 4: it was can they do something offensively as that game

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Speaker 4: begins to evolve that makes me feel like, Okay, some

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Speaker 4: seeds have been planted for them to have future success.

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Speaker 4: That maybe ignores the fact that defensively they have all

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Speaker 4: sorts of issues. It maybe ignores some of the changes

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Speaker 4: they're making on the fly in regards to who plays.

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Speaker 4: But I saw what I wanted to see. I expected

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Speaker 4: it to be not great in the first half. I

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Speaker 4: wanted it to be better in the second half. And

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Speaker 4: you pointed out like as the second half went on,

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Speaker 4: I wasn't thinking about the play clock. I wasn't thinking

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Speaker 4: about unnecessarily burning timeouts, delay of game penalties. I saw

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Speaker 4: competent offensive line play. I don't know how much of

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Speaker 4: that is sustainable, but I saw an offense that worked

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Speaker 4: and work again. This is not where we should be starting,

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Speaker 4: but this is this is where we are. It's week six, Okay,

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Speaker 4: it's the Browning thing didn't work. We're trying Flacco show

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Speaker 4: me something that makes me feel like this can work,

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Speaker 4: And over those final thirty minutes, I got what I

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Speaker 4: wanted to see at that point, didn't care about the result.

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Speaker 4: I will on Thursday.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think it looked functional.

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Speaker 3: It looked like one that could operate on time and

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Speaker 3: under control, and looked like it had a plan. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I just went something as simple in the

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Speaker 3: story I have up today, I'm just let's just look

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Speaker 3: at how this team operated from a you know, successful

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Speaker 3: play standpoint on throws to come out in two point

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Speaker 3: five seconds or less. And it's unbelievable. You know, Joe

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Speaker 3: Flacco comes in and it's up around sixty percent. Weeks

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Speaker 3: one and two, it was up around sixty percent. The

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Speaker 3: three middle games with Jake Browning was all the way

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Speaker 3: down in the thirties and forties was bad plays. It's

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Speaker 3: not seeing things fasting, and it's not finding those easy, successful,

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Speaker 3: efficient plays.

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Speaker 2: That kept them ahead of the six more often.

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Speaker 3: And if there's one thing that Joe did, he just

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Speaker 3: came in and when he knew what he was seeing

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Speaker 3: and quickly got the ball to somebody that could help

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Speaker 3: him make a profit. And it helped the whole offense

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Speaker 3: work better. And it's just it made it apparent that

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Speaker 3: so much of what was going wrong was a matter

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Speaker 3: of just a quarterback that didn't know what he.

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Speaker 2: Was seeing and wasn't finding the easy.

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Speaker 3: Yards, the layups that we've spent the last couple of

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Speaker 3: weeks talk about that they're missing, and.

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Speaker 2: I think when you can do that, as they did,

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Speaker 2: as Joe.

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Speaker 3: Figured out what he was seeing, and I know Pitcher

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Speaker 3: with us this week, and Zach Taylors talked about as well,

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Speaker 3: even Flaco that a couple of those in the first

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Speaker 3: half he wasn't seeing it as quick first game with

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Speaker 3: these guys and recognizes that the checkdowns that he was

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Speaker 3: hitting later, if he just would have hit those in

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Speaker 3: those first couple of drives, those drives could have looked

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Speaker 3: more like the last ones. And I don't think it's

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Speaker 3: going to be that simple throughout the course of the season.

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Speaker 3: Like teams are going to see that, and he is

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Speaker 3: who he is, but like that level of.

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Speaker 2: Functionality with these level of weapons around.

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Speaker 3: Him, can beating off to score a decent amount of

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Speaker 3: points and keep you competitive.

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Speaker 2: The problem is they've now.

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Speaker 3: Lost four in a rows and they've got to do

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Speaker 3: that on a fly and get out there and beat

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Speaker 3: Pittsburgh because they put their backs against the wall a

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Speaker 3: little bit trying to find that.

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Speaker 4: I read what you wrote after Friday about how this

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Speaker 4: came together, the decision to bring in Joe Flacco, the

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Speaker 4: process of getting him up to speed with the offense,

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Speaker 4: him joining the team, learning who his teammates are, and

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Speaker 4: I coupled that with listening to him on Friday. Joe Flacco,

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Speaker 4: I've never had strong feelings about the guy. Good career,

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Speaker 4: long career, seems like an okay guy, spent much of

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Speaker 4: his career playing for a team I root against. Never

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Speaker 4: felt like he was one of the absolute best. Certainly

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Speaker 4: respect what the dude has accomplished. I've gone from feeling

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Speaker 4: that way, and this has little to do with how

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Speaker 4: he played on Sunday listening to him and reading what

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Speaker 4: you wrote about getting him up to speed.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Joe Flacco fan.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he has this level of humility and

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Speaker 3: professionalism that mixes well together. You know. It just feels

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Speaker 3: like he understands who he is, where he's at in

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Speaker 3: his career. He's very honest with himself. I mean, he's

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Speaker 3: just a grown adult, you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 3: man has five kids, mo like it changes you. And

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Speaker 3: but he just he has a really, very real sense

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Speaker 3: of appreciating the moments that he's in is what strikes me.

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Speaker 3: Appreciating the fact that, yeah, I mean I am, I'm

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Speaker 3: driving down in the middle of the night, and I would.

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Speaker 1: Have driven myself.

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Speaker 3: May didn't have to send me these cars like I'm

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Speaker 3: driving down because I appreciate the fause I'm about to

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Speaker 3: have another chance, and I appreciate the adversity that I

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Speaker 3: went through in Cleveland, and just and there's an understanding

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Speaker 3: of what the NFL is with him. I just think

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Speaker 3: that you don't get often and that's fine, you just

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Speaker 3: don't out of a lot of younger players when they're

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Speaker 3: out here and they view everything differently. But you can

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Speaker 3: just sense, I mean that that wisdom that he has

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Speaker 3: about appreciating these moments, gratitude for the game, and understanding

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Speaker 3: of how it all works. I just think he certainly

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Speaker 3: comes across as the true true professional.

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Speaker 4: I just I watched that whole thing on Friday, and

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Speaker 4: I thought, this guy understands how absurd this is and

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Speaker 4: handled it with humor, handled it with professionalism like that,

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Speaker 4: and just it helped with how he played in the

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Speaker 4: second half on Sunday, I just thought, like, that's a

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Speaker 4: dude worth rooting for, and like, now I want this

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Speaker 4: to work.

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Speaker 1: I want this to work because I'm a Bengals fan.

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Speaker 4: I want this to work because I think it'd be

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Speaker 4: a cool story, and I think Joe Flacco at the

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Speaker 4: center that would be neat. I was impressed by how

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Speaker 4: he handled that. It felt to me like he he

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Speaker 4: put himself in a position where he was gonna be

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Speaker 4: very prepared, and his experience certainly allowed him to do that.

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Speaker 4: But I just I don't know, man, I've walked away from.

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Speaker 1: The the early the early early.

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Speaker 4: Returns of the Joe Flacco experience, appreciating him more than

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Speaker 4: I ever did.

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Speaker 1: Because but before this week, I didn't care.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I had Zach Jackson, who has covered

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Speaker 3: the Browns forever, and he's notably sarcastic and critical of

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Speaker 3: the Browns at pretty much every turn whenever I talked

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Speaker 3: to him, so I always, really, I always really enjoy

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Speaker 3: having catching up with Zach whenever it's it's whether it's

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Speaker 3: on my podcast or whatever. But like I had him

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Speaker 3: on last week, We did one after the trade, and

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Speaker 3: I like softballed one up for him to be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's take a shot at the Browns and Flacco and whatever.

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Speaker 2: And it was the exact opposite.

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Speaker 3: He was like, you know, I'm the most cynical human

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Speaker 3: on earth, and I feel like I look at the

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Speaker 3: Bengals and Joe Flacco and think that it can work.

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Speaker 3: And I think there was an appreciation for everything that

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Speaker 3: you just verbalized there, Mo, and it's that he's he's

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Speaker 3: a true professional. He is a real understanding of how

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Speaker 3: the league works. And this gratitude that he has plays

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Speaker 3: well in certain places, and it played well in Cleveland

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that Cleveland is the biggest pony show

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Speaker 3: of what is going on here in the whole league

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Speaker 3: for periods of time. But I think there's an understanding

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Speaker 3: of how to handle that stuff and deal with it.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I was really surprised.

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Speaker 3: And that's somebody who has dealt with Joe Flacco now

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Speaker 3: in different parts for a couple of years, and so

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Speaker 3: that was when my antenna was first raised to it.

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Speaker 3: And I think you've seen that at pretty much every

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Speaker 3: turn thus far since Joe has gotten here.

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Speaker 1: All Right, a couple more because I know you have

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Speaker 1: stuff to do.

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Speaker 4: I've I've beaten up this roster and it's defense, and

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Speaker 4: I've wandered out loud. Are there are five players I

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Speaker 4: want to be on the team next year. I might

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Speaker 4: be completely there yet, but DJ Turner is winning me over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how you're not.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the way that he is playing now is

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Speaker 3: cornerback one stuff that the Bengals have been begging to find,

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Speaker 3: begging to draft, begging to develop for I don't know

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Speaker 3: as long as we can remember in recent memory here,

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Speaker 3: since Chita Beowuzi, you know, towards Aco that one year.

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Speaker 2: I mean that is it feels like they.

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Speaker 3: Needed that to have a guy that they can rely

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Speaker 3: on to make a play, that they can rely on

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Speaker 3: to shut down the other team's best receiver, that can

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Speaker 3: you know, we'll be sticky in because just anything that

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Speaker 3: you can count on in the secondary that isn't some

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Speaker 3: kind of a roller coaster week to week. This is

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Speaker 3: the evolution they've been begging for from Dax Hill, from

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Speaker 3: Cam Taylor Britt and now from Turner. Any just asking

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Speaker 3: for any of them to turn into somebody like what

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Speaker 3: he has played like over the last month.

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Speaker 2: And it's it's great to see.

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Speaker 3: It's hard not to believe even him right now with

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Speaker 3: a way that he's playing.

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Speaker 1: Why is the logan Wilson thing gone south so quickly.

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Speaker 3: It's a great question, and uh, you know, Logan's obviously

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Speaker 3: not thrilled with it. And I think that there is

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Speaker 3: a general direction that the team wants to go in

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Speaker 3: terms of being young, and they feel like if they're

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Speaker 3: gonna be good at some point this year, Barrett Carter

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Speaker 3: is probably going to have to be a part of

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Speaker 3: that answer. And the only way that he's going to

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Speaker 3: start to be a part of that answer is if

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Speaker 3: he gets reps, and he's not gonna get them right now.

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Speaker 3: It is a It's one of the more stunning moves

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Speaker 3: in recent years, just because I don't think Logan Wilson

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Speaker 3: was playing that bad. Okay, I don't think that of

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Speaker 3: all the of all the things happening out there. Defensively,

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Speaker 3: he wasn't in the top of my list of things

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Speaker 3: to worry about. And the one thing he was was

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Speaker 3: the one veteran out there amongst all of these kids

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Speaker 3: who have had roller coaster careers. As far like, there's

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Speaker 3: so many young players that are out there around him

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Speaker 3: and guys that don't know what they're doing totally, and

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Speaker 3: to take away the guy who has the seat on

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Speaker 3: his chest and the green dot on his helmet that

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Speaker 3: has been was just praised a week or two ago

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Speaker 3: for getting everybody lined up correctly, And as far as

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Speaker 3: I can tell, isn't one of your top three or

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Speaker 3: four or five liabilities in terms of the way he's playing.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't make a ton of sense to me, And it's

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Speaker 3: just really surprising to see as it felt rash, But

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Speaker 3: it feels like this is just the direction that they

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Speaker 3: want to go, that they just feel like they wanted

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Speaker 3: to see if Barrett Carter can bring them some kind

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Speaker 3: of a jolt.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we just talked to Logan in the

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Speaker 2: locker room and he.

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Speaker 3: Didn't feel like he got much of an explanation for

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Speaker 3: why the move happened. And he's doing everything he can

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Speaker 3: to help Barrett and is going to be the good teammate.

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Speaker 3: But I think there's a sense of him being as

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Speaker 3: befuddled as some of the a lot of the other

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Speaker 3: thus are.

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Speaker 1: I don't get it.

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Speaker 4: And number one, I don't know that Barrett Carter has

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Speaker 4: played so well that he has distinguished himself that you go,

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Speaker 4: you know what, you got to get this guy in

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Speaker 4: the field more. And he's a rookie, so he's not

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Speaker 4: supposed to but I'm with you. I said to you

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Speaker 4: after the first game that that was the first time

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Speaker 4: in over a year that I had watched Logan Wilson play,

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Speaker 4: where I said during the game, like.

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Speaker 1: Hey, there's Logan Wilson.

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Speaker 4: He maybe hasn't been that good since I just I

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Speaker 4: feel like I feel like the leash for him has

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Speaker 4: been shorter than a lot of other guys they've had,

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Speaker 4: and it's it's hard for me to wrap my brain

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Speaker 4: around why.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you, and I think that.

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Speaker 3: To me, it just goes back to the fact that

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Speaker 3: they need somebody who knows what they're doing out there,

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Speaker 3: and that was apparent. You know, you look at the

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Speaker 3: second half of that game. I mean the touchdown against

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Speaker 3: Green Bay. You've got two rookie linebackers and nobody goes

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Speaker 3: to the A gap and Josh Jacobs runs right up

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Speaker 3: the middle for a touchdown.

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Speaker 2: It's just, you know, that's.

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Speaker 3: The type of stuff when you're really serious about trying

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Speaker 3: to win games right now, you know, those are those

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Speaker 3: are risks that you can't be that you're just not

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Speaker 3: taking in terms of having that level of an experience

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Speaker 3: with two rookie linebackers out there together. And there's other

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Speaker 3: there's just other ways to work them in. You know,

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Speaker 3: there can there can be rotational stuff. You can have

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Speaker 3: you know, bigger sub package work or or alternate drives

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Speaker 3: for a little while and see how it's going and

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Speaker 3: get reps in that way.

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Speaker 2: Or it's just for it to.

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Speaker 3: Immediately be Barrett Carter plays one hundred percent of the

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Speaker 3: snaps in Green Bay.

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Speaker 2: It's just it was just a much.

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Speaker 3: Riskier decision, uh than I feel like this point in

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Speaker 3: the season warrants.

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Speaker 4: I have found that sometimes in life, this thing happens

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Speaker 4: where you're doing your job just fine, everybody seems to

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Speaker 4: like you, and then they just pull the plug for

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Speaker 4: no reason, and uh, I don't understand it, and it

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Speaker 4: defies explanation sometimes. But you know, that's that's why I

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Speaker 4: search for answers eternally on the search for answers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the Bengals are eternally on the search

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Speaker 3: for answers right now too. It feels like that's a

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Speaker 3: big part of what's happening around here. And we'll see

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Speaker 3: how lost they are on Thursday.

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Speaker 2: I suppose we'll.

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Speaker 1: See Paul, I missed you here today, but we'll see

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Speaker 1: you next week.

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Speaker 2: Thank you as always, I look forward to it. Talk

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Speaker 2: to everybody.

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Speaker 4: Likewise, Paul Danner Junior catch the podcast The Growler Podcast,

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Speaker 4: read him at the Athletic dot Com his piece and

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Speaker 4: he wrote it on I think he wrote it Friday,

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Speaker 4: wrote about just what they did to get Joe Flacco

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Speaker 4: up to speed is really good and again, man, like

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Speaker 4: they've lost four consecutive games. This seasons is at a

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Speaker 4: tipping point. We're already breaking the glass and applying the

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Speaker 4: must win label to the game on Thursday, like things

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Speaker 4: are knock wing great, the defense is not good.

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Speaker 1: They're on their.

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Speaker 4: Third quarterback in seven games, Like, this isn't good, but

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Speaker 4: Joe Flacco has never elicited strong feelings and maybe that's

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Speaker 4: his legacy, Like you know when we were doing this

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Speaker 4: thirteen years ago after they won the Super Bowl. The

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Speaker 4: whole like, is Joe Flacco elite? And IM like, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna sit this one out because the answer is no.

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Speaker 4: But we'll argue over Joe Flacco if you want.

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Speaker 1: I've become a fan this week. I thought like he'sat there.

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Speaker 4: Friday and handled the questions about this just ridiculous situation

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Speaker 4: with humor, and it it felt like he did everything

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Speaker 4: he could to prepare himself ready to play, to get

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Speaker 4: ready to play on Sunday. It felt like the team

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Speaker 4: did respond to him on some level, certainly in.

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Speaker 1: The second half.

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Speaker 4: I don't have uber high hopes that this is gonna

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Speaker 4: be sustainable. He can't move The offensive line, while it

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Speaker 4: played decent in the second half, is not great. They

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Speaker 4: all have a great running game even if they score points.

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Speaker 4: The defense doesn't feel like they can stop anybody right now.

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Speaker 4: But you know, we said it last week. It's at

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Speaker 4: least interesting, and I think Joe Flacco, the way he

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Speaker 4: has handled this and the way he played in the

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Speaker 4: second half have made it even more interesting.

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Speaker 1: It is twenty three after four o'clock. We're at Oakley Greens.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna hear Joe Flacco and Jamar and He've been

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Speaker 4: waiting all day for this. You'll hear from Joe and

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Speaker 4: Jamar coming up in twelve minutes on ESPN fifteen thirty

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Speaker 4: Cincinnati Sports

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Speaker 2: Station, Cincinnati's ESPNI