1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVS Boston's news radio. 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 2: Well, I think all of you know I am not 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: a big fan of bike lanes in Boston. I really 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 2: try not to hide that. 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 3: Oh. 6 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: In September, we had a very spirited conversation with Paul Baskin. 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: He's a writer and journalist living in Winthrop. He wrote 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: a very compelling op ed peace in the September twenty 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: second edition of The Boston Globe called It was titled 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: Move Motorized Vehicles out of Bike Lanes. And I thought 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: that that conversation might commend itself to a longer discourse, 12 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 2: and I hope that Paul will be able to stick 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: with us for the next fifty five minutes or so 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: and discuss this issue. First of all, Paul, welcome back 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: Tonight's side. Thank you for coming back. How are you tonight? 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: Thank you, Dan, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for 17 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 3: doing it. 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 4: Well. 19 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think it's a great topic, I really do. 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: I think you and I kind of are looking at 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: it very differently, But I think we can have a 22 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: civil conversation. And I know that a lot of my 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: listeners probably are equally divided on the issue. Let me 24 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,279 Speaker 2: just try to frame the issue and if you agree 25 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: with me, great, If you don't, then you can frame it. 26 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 2: I'll give you the bottom of the first inning here. 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: Your article essentially was entitled moved motorized vehicles out of 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: bike lanes, and so it seems to me that you 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: would like to keep just regular bicycles, pedaled powered bicycles 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: in bike lanes and have the other products, as you 31 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: refer to, the e bikes and other various classes of 32 00:01:53,280 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: smaller transportation modes not in the bike lanes. I can understand, 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: and you're you're feeling on that. But what are we 34 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: going to do with these little mini scooters and these 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: e bikes and all these different categories that they come 36 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: up with. They have these these uh they look like 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: they could be pedal power, not pedal power, they could 38 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: be foot powered. But they just sit up and they're 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: they're motorized there and they they they look like they're 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: just standing on a little slim piece of steel and 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 2: they drive along. What are we going to do with 42 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: all of them if they're not in the bike lanes. 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 3: It's it's it's all great questions, and there's so many 44 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: other questions that come from that as well. And you're right, 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 3: there's a there is a bewildering array of devices you 46 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: see coming in bike lanes these days, and it's a 47 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 3: tough question what to deal with it. I think there's 48 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 3: so many levels on which you could ask this question. 49 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 3: But I think we maybe what I was trying to say, 50 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 3: and again it was a very it was a relatively 51 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 3: brief article, I think maybe eight hundred words or though 52 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: so not you know, not the space to really get 53 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 3: into it. But it's really is a product of car 54 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 3: centric design that are that our communities are built primarily 55 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 3: for even though cars and your drivers don't pay the cost. 56 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: And that's just a sort of a fundamental market failure. 57 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I think a lot of people would agree 58 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: that in most things in life, they would like to, 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 3: you know, all things being equal, they would like to 60 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: have market based decisions about how people do things. Well, 61 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 3: you know, if whatever's most you know, what's more popular, 62 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: what people are willing to pay for that, which should 63 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 3: be you know, that should be given a lot of 64 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 3: difference in consideration. 65 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: I know that if we have I know that in 66 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: your artical poll, and I was going to ask you 67 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: about this later. So since you brought it up. You 68 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: said that in Massachusetts alone, every family is forced to 69 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: pay an astounding average of fourteen thousand dollars every year 70 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: to subsidize private car use. That's according to a Harvard 71 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: study from twenty nineteen. First of all, I'm forced every 72 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: year to pay income tax, but I don't look at 73 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: it like that. I look at it as sort of 74 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: the social contract that I have to pay for lots 75 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: of things will which I don't use. But I was curious, 76 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: how did the Harvard study come up with the figure 77 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: of fourteen thousand dollars. I'm sure you've looked at the study. 78 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: What are they base that? 79 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: Well, it's computed. But just answer to that point about 80 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: income taxes in general, Yeah, you are if you want 81 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 3: to use the word force to pay for things. But 82 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 3: generally the idea would be that what you're paying for 83 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: your for your taxes is public public benefits, public dollars 84 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 3: for public benefits. So the idea, and obviously it doesn't 85 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: always work that way, but the idea of what you're 86 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: going for is to have public spending on public benefits. 87 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I use it. I use the word social contract, 88 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: and I know that there are people who choose to 89 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 2: live in downtown Boston and they only time they use 90 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: a car would be if they take a cab to 91 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: the airport or an uber to the airport. I get that. 92 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: And then there are people who but where did the 93 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: how did they? How did this Harvard study? You know, 94 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: if it's a family of four, the average family four right, 95 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: paying fourteen thousands. The phrase to subsidize private car use 96 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: I don't understand that. I mean, yeah, and I'm serious. 97 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: I think this is an important point you're making. I 98 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: want to give you a chance to amplify on it. 99 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 3: Sure, and it just is. And some people don't like 100 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: the word subsidy because it's it's somebody has a particular 101 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 3: economic meaning. But the term what it means is essentially 102 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: cost that you as a family incur, regardless of whether 103 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: it is so there's some of them are very complicated 104 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: to tease out. For instance, maybe the cost of people 105 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 3: being dying and being killed, the cost of of the 106 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 3: pollution that you have to breathe, the cost the cost 107 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 3: of the noise. Matter of fact, you just had on your 108 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 3: on your show a little while ago. I'm just moments ago, 109 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 3: somebody talking about stress. Well, stress is very much an 110 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 3: effect of cars, the noise that the noise that they produce, 111 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: the smells, the that kind. So there's those are those 112 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 3: are more difficult. 113 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: So that's how they that's how they get to the 114 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: figure of fourteenth every Well, I'm not done. 115 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: Yet, but I'm just I'm gonna trying to give you 116 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: some of the more complicated ones. Some of the more 117 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 3: simpler ones are the fact that you don't know if 118 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: you know what it costs to have a parking permit 119 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: in in Boston if you want to if you have 120 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 3: a in Boston and you want to park your car 121 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 3: on a public street, that the that the taxpayer paid 122 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: for and cleans and plows and rebuilds. What do you 123 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: know what the cost is for that for a for 124 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 3: a person in Boston. Go ahead, it's the answer. The 125 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: answer is zero. The answer is zero. In the town 126 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 3: I live in, the answer is five dollars. Now, these 127 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 3: are not obviously, I mean, I think you can clearly 128 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: see that's not reflecting the actual cost. That's a giveaway 129 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: because I thought. 130 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: I thought, I thought, I thought your question, Paul, was 131 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: what was the actual cost of people who live in Boston? 132 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: Uh? 133 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: And you know part one of the benefits I guess 134 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: of living in Boston if you are a resident, or 135 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: if you're a renter or I believe, and I haven't 136 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: lived in Boston in a while, if you can prove 137 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: that you live in the back bay, you can get 138 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: a back bay parking permit. Because what are you supposed 139 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 2: to do with your car? I mean, leave it? 140 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: If we don't have to have a car, No, that's 141 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 3: the well, that's the point, you don't. I'm that car 142 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 3: is a choice. So it's so you don't have to 143 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: have a car. 144 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: You could a choice. It's not a choice. If let 145 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 2: us say it's always a choice. There's a million choices 146 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: in the world. But a lot of people in Boston 147 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 2: work twenty miles from Boston. They work out a route 148 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: one twenty eighth. They're not going to ride your bike 149 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: out every day. I mean, let's you know. I mean, 150 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: that's that's sort of weighing the scales here. A little 151 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: bit I get from your I get from your set, 152 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: from your piece, And I want to be honest, and 153 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: I'll give you every opportunity I get. In your world, 154 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: there would be no cars in your ideal world, do 155 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: you know? 156 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: No, that's that's No, that's not true. That's that's definitely 157 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: not true. 158 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: Can I removel the piece that you wrote? 159 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: Sure? 160 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: Sure, academic studies, to be fair, do suggest that motorized 161 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: bikes will get to the motorized bikes in a second 162 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: reduced car use, and that should be encouraged. Okay, nice 163 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: concession by you. There So many of our major societal 164 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: problems are worsened by heavy governmental subsidient subsidiation, subsidization of 165 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: private motoring. There is an abress, there is the obscene 166 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: roadway carnage. Forty thousand people die every year, and heavy 167 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: car use is tied to cancers and other diseases, chronic 168 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: noise and anxiety, and intensified societal division and anger. In 169 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: Massachusetts alone, every family is puced and this is what 170 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: I quoted from before, forced to pay an astounding average 171 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 2: of fourteen thousand dollars every year to subsidize private car use, 172 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 2: regardless of whether or how much the family actually drives, 173 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: according to a twenty nineteen Harvard study. I read that 174 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: paragraph and I say to myself, the person who wrote 175 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 2: this obviously doesn't like cars. You don't own a car, 176 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: I assume, right. 177 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: No, Actually, I actually do no, I do because I 178 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: have to live. I don't have to. I don't have to, 179 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 3: but I don't have to. But I mean, it's it's 180 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 3: the system that you do. 181 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: You have any sort of internal conflict because of that 182 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: or no, I. 183 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 3: Mean all the time. I mean, I would wish. I 184 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 3: wish the system wasn't set up that way. It's a 185 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 3: very expensive thing to have. I do know. He saw 186 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 3: it was just an article in the Globe of days 187 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 3: ago to talk to about. I think the cost being 188 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 3: like fifty thousand dollars for cars these days. I mean, 189 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 3: it's an astounding amount of money that we're basically expecting 190 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: everybody to pay just everyone's going in their lives. 191 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: I've never spent fifty thousand in a car, but but 192 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: there they are a luxury cars some people buy cars 193 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: for that are safe, safer cars. I used to be 194 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 2: a big voval believer because I felt they were studies 195 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: that said that vovos were very safe. And my wife 196 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 2: was she was up for new cars, she was pregnant. 197 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: And I don't like vovals anymore. To be really honest 198 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: with you, I think that they have they're not as 199 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: good as they used to be. But that's a you know, 200 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: a personal choice that that people can make. Let's do this. 201 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 2: Let me I got to take a pause for commercial. 202 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: When we come back, I want to get us back 203 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: to what we're going to do with these scooters and 204 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: motor bikes and e bikes. There are so many, you know, 205 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: the people who were running around with the food delivery people, 206 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 2: the people who were darting in and on track. We 207 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: might have some areas of agreement on that, actually, so 208 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: let's hope. So my guest is Paul Baskin. He is 209 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: a writer and a journalist. 210 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 4: Uh. 211 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: He lives outside of the city in Winthrop. Uh. And 212 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 2: he does own a car, which which surprises me. But 213 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: that's that's he has every right to do that. And 214 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: I did not ask that question to in any way 215 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: shape perform embarrass you. And you should not be embarrassed 216 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: by that that question. The article. The article is a 217 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: really good article. It's written. It's called more motorized vehicles, 218 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: Move motorized vehicles out of bike lanes. Well, take a 219 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: quick break if you'd like to join the conversation. And 220 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: again I ask you, whatever position you take, I ask 221 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: you to be polite and be civil with my guests, because, 222 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: as I've always explained, a guest of my show is 223 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: like a guest in my home, and we can have 224 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 2: a civil conversation about this if you want to get 225 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: your thoughts in six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty, 226 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: six one seven nine. I have to concede bike lanes 227 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: aren't going away, particularly in view of how this last 228 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 2: mayoral election came out. I think there's going to be 229 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 2: more and more bike lanes, and maybe we may get 230 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: to the point where it's just Carl lanes if that, 231 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: but we'll talk about some of that, and let's have 232 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 2: a little bit of fun with this as well, serious 233 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: topic we can talk about and still have fun. Back 234 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: on night Side six one seven, two, five, four thirty 235 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 2: or six one seven, nine three one thirty will come 236 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 2: on right back on night Side with Paul Baskin. 237 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's 238 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: news radio. 239 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 2: My guest is Paul Baskin. He's a writer and journalist 240 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 2: living in Winthrop, and Paul, I want to get to 241 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: the to the to the to the meat of your article. 242 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: You essentially want to make sure that the bike lanes 243 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: that have been constructed around Boston are maintained for people 244 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: who are riding bicycles, not from motorized vehicles. Go ahead 245 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: and make your case is what is wrong with having 246 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: these smaller motorized vehicles in bike lanes? And if they're 247 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: not in bike lanes, what do we do with them? Right? 248 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 3: Well, again, the reason I started off by talking about 249 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: car centric design was because that gets to the question 250 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 3: of why why so much of the road is set 251 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 3: aside for one type of one type of conveyance essentially, 252 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 3: And that's and that gets to what that gets the problem. 253 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: The problem is that because you know, basically, if you 254 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 3: look at a road around here, pretty much every lane 255 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 3: is set aside for cars. You might get a bike 256 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: lane here and there, and then then that's sort of 257 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: what's going on now is we're saying that everything other 258 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 3: than a car goes in the bike lane, and that's 259 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 3: not really that's not really a reflection of public demand, 260 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 3: of of of public you know, of free free choice essentially. 261 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: So miss you said that, you said that that there 262 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: are a few the bike lanes, a few. 263 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: And far between, but they are, yeah, really they are. 264 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 3: And then sure there's most roads don't even most roads 265 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 3: don't have one. Most worlds don't have one and. 266 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 2: Would Yeah, okay, so therefore, just so we know where 267 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: you're coming from, you'd like to see a bike lane, uh, 268 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: on every major road? 269 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 3: I assume, well, what so what doesn't not as much 270 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 3: what I would like to see? I guess I think 271 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 3: the questions what does the public want to see? And 272 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: I don't think we know that because right now we 273 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 3: are we are basically designing. 274 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 2: Tonight from some of my listeners. 275 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: But well, because they're in a system, because they're living 276 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 3: in a world in which which the world just set 277 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 3: aside almost entirely for cars, and therefore it'd be sort 278 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 3: of like if you went into a store and the 279 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 3: only choice of ice cream was vential ice cream, and 280 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 3: everybody bought vital ice cream, You'd say, well, people must 281 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: really like vnyal ice cream. Well, it's because it's the 282 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 3: only choice you're giving them. Then that's what they're buying. 283 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 3: And that's essentially what our road look like, which is that, yes, 284 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 3: you would say, all your listeners or all the people 285 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 3: would say, they want Carlan, let me ask this. 286 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: Choice bike lanes for I'm going to say, you know, 287 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: going back to Mayor Menino, my dear friend who I 288 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: disagreed with on this issue, but he believed in bike lanes. 289 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: What percentage of people do you think on an average 290 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: day in Boston, And I know this is always a 291 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: tough question because no one has done a study of this, 292 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: what percentage of people do you think use their bike 293 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: to get a rind with their business? So let's just 294 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: say within grater within greater Boston. 295 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 3: And I think there is data on that, and I'm sorry, yeah, 296 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 3: I think there is data on that. I don't have it. 297 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 3: But the amstra obviously is very low, and I mean 298 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: relatively speaking to cars. And the reason is because if 299 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: you walk outside and look at the look at the 300 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 3: road out there, it's almost all designed for cars. So therefore, 301 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 3: and you would say there's been bike lanes since mayor Menino, 302 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 3: but yes, there really hasn't been a bike network. There 303 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: still isn't one. I mean, if you if you go 304 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 3: I go out on a bike and in effect, you know, 305 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: that's how I get around a lot, and you find 306 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: very quickly that there's not a coherent network. You could 307 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: be biking down, you know, a road for a couple 308 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 3: of blocks and then suddenly the bike lane goes away 309 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 3: or suddenly it's on the other side of the road 310 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 3: and you have to cross dangerous traffic to get or 311 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 3: suddenly there's a as a light pull in the level. 312 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: Ye. 313 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 2: Then when you come into Boston, and again, do you 314 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: use the tea to come in? And do you ride 315 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: a bike? 316 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: I do all these things. I do. I sometimes ride 317 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 3: the tea, and sometimes I take the I take a 318 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: bike on the ferry. Sometimes I bike around. Well, that's 319 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 3: one thing that will point out to you too, is 320 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 3: coming from where I am, there's a there's two tunnels, 321 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: and there's a bridge, and none of them have have 322 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: capacity for bikes on them. I mean, it's just it's 323 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: full of it. I mean, if you bike around, you're talking, and. 324 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: Again I'm just trying to I'm just you're going very 325 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: fast and I don't mean to interrupt. I just want 326 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 2: to make sure that you're making your points so people 327 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: understand them. You'd like to see bike lanes on the 328 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: bridges in and out to Boston as well as the tunnels. 329 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 3: I'd like to see free choice. I think maybe what 330 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 3: we should The way to think of it is, yes, 331 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 3: you're asking what I personally will like. Yes, I think 332 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 3: to the democracy that should be a democracy, and we 333 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 3: should let people freely choose. What we're not doing is 334 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: letting people freely choose. We right now have the government 335 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 3: imposing on everybody one particular way of getting around, and 336 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: then we're then you're saying, well, that's because everybody wants 337 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 3: to get around that way, and it's just I'm not trying. 338 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to play that game with you. I'm 339 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: taking your arguments quite seriously. What I'm saying is that 340 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 2: if if you were to put a bike lane, and 341 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 2: I don't know if you'd have to put two, say 342 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: through the O'Neal tunnel, through the Sumner or Callahan or 343 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: over the zac And Bridge, you're in your opinion that 344 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: would be value. That would be a good addition to 345 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 2: our traffic situation here in Boston because I assume some 346 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: you believe that more and more and more people would 347 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: use those bike lanes and they would not be in cars. 348 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: I think that's what you're what you're what you're suggesting, 349 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: which is fine. 350 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's plenty of evidence that to that effect. 351 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 3: When that's done in another places, that's exactly what happens. 352 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: Okay, So now you know Boston if we did put 353 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: a bike lane in the you know, the major bridges. 354 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: We put a bike lane on ninety three and ninety five, 355 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 2: all the different roadways so that you could have a 356 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: continuous lane to safely you take your bike from Winthrop 357 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: into Boston, tunnels everywhere. Yeah, what do you think that 358 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: would do to traffic congestion in Boston? And do you 359 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: think that enough people you know, would use the bicycles 360 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: twelve months a year so that the there would still 361 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: be some people I guess who would cling to the 362 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: to the automobiles. I would be one of those. 363 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: So I think what you're a puzzle that I had 364 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 3: a car, and I think that's that's maybe one of 365 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 3: the misunderstanding is that it's like a lot of things, 366 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 3: you don't do everything the same way all the time. 367 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: You're certain some cases you might take those subway, some 368 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 3: case you might drive something. 369 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: Might I asked you, Yeah, I asked you. Did you 370 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 2: take the tea? So come to me question if you could. 371 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: And that is, let's assume that what you're proposing, which 372 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 2: is reasonable. You're you're a very great advocate. You're the 373 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 2: best advocate I've ever dealt with on this issue. So 374 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 2: let's assume we got We got bike lanes in the tunnels, 375 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 2: we got bike lanes on the Zacom, we got bike 376 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: lanes on ninety three, we got bike lanes and and 377 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 2: and obviously, because cars are going faster on a lot 378 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 2: of those roads, if we're going to have bike lanes, 379 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 2: I want to see protection there. I don't want to 380 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: just draw a line down the road and give people, 381 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: you know, three feet to ride a bicycle. That that 382 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: would be suicidal. So we we put those bike lanes. 383 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: My view is that very few people, very few people 384 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 2: would continue to use bicycles, and all we would do 385 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: is we would choke Boston even more. That's my view. 386 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: You don't agree with that, so tell me what you 387 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 2: would be like. 388 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 3: I think science shows that the research into the question 389 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: shows is something doing to induce demand, which is essentially 390 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 3: that if you add more lanes to car lanes, you 391 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: just get more cars. And if you do, some people 392 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 3: find other ways of getting around, especially when you give 393 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 3: them alternatives. You made a comment that that people can't 394 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 3: bike you around, Well, people can't drive you around either 395 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 3: around except the fact that we plow the roads. We 396 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,719 Speaker 3: pile roads for them to help them do it, So 397 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 3: the same thing could apply for cars, and people also 398 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 3: also can't drive life around. You can't drive until you're sixteen, roughly, 399 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 3: and you can't drive if you're if you're you know 400 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 3: a lot of people who are older or people who have, 401 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 3: you know, in some kind of physical issues, so or 402 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 3: you can't afford a car, and there's it's a very 403 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: expensive way to get around. So so the argument is 404 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: made that bicycles aren't realistic because you can't ride them around. 405 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 3: But cars, for that same argument, aren't realistic either because 406 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 3: you can't use them life round. So this is not 407 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 3: like one is a clear argument other. 408 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 2: Go ahead, fair enough, so, but but I'm just asking you, 409 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: and again I got to get to a to a 410 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 2: news break here, and I'd like to just not leave 411 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: this question hanging. Let's assume that we went all in 412 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 2: and as we've described it, and as you've described it, 413 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: and as I've described it, where we have some bike 414 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: lanes in the tunnels and on the bridges and on 415 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: the major roadways. And let's assume we do that experiment 416 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 2: for five years, what percentage of people coming into Boston. 417 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 2: Obviously right now it's a very small percentage, and you said, 418 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 2: it's a small percentage because you know you don't have linkage. 419 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: But if we had the linkage that you that you 420 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: would hope for, right, what percentage on an average day, 421 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 2: and even pick a nice day. Let's let's leave the 422 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 2: weather conditions all out of it. Where do you think 423 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 2: would be five years from now? Do you think that 424 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: ten percent of the people coming into Boston will be 425 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: riding by or do you think would be substantially higher 426 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 2: or lower? 427 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 3: So we don't have to guess at this. We can 428 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 3: look at other countries that have done this and we 429 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 3: can see what goes on and will what goes on 430 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 3: is that very large percentages of them, I mean majorities 431 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 3: in some cases of the people get around by by bike. 432 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 2: If you shine it up that way in China would 433 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: be an exist. 434 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 3: China not just no, no, I'm try China is going 435 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 3: away from that probably as much as anything. I mean, again, 436 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 3: I'm not an expert in this, but I know I 437 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 3: think that what I'm thinking maybe as a place like 438 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 3: the Netherlands, which which you can see examples there where 439 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 3: there's communities where they where they where they have networks 440 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 3: of bikes matter. You can go up to Montreal, you know, 441 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 3: have to go that far. You go up to Montreal 442 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 3: and see where that goes on where. 443 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: They have I was in Montreal in May. I didn't 444 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: see any evidence of that to be realised. I was. 445 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: I was in Netherlands a few years ago, and you're correct. 446 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 2: In Netherlands there were a lot of people on bikes. 447 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 2: There's no question about that. But that. But you know 448 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: how they say, all real estate is unique, all cities 449 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: are unique. Netherlaniness is a city in Europe. It might 450 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: it might work again, just give me your percentage five 451 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 2: years out. I think it would be less than five 452 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: percent of the people who would be relying on bikes. 453 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: You think it would be higher. I'm just curious how 454 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 2: far I am. 455 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 3: So just so just for I don't I'm not sure 456 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 3: why that matters what my guests would because it's I 457 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 3: have no basis on forguessing, except for the fact that 458 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: you're not your your suggesting, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with. 459 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 3: But that's not the question because it would take a lot. 460 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 3: It might take longer than that. For I think maybe 461 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 3: in some of these countries that maybe have taken you know, 462 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 3: twenty or thirty years for people to really shift on. 463 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 3: And one thing, and one thing you've got to please 464 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 3: keep in mind too, is that what you're talking about 465 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 3: is the way cities are built right now. And so 466 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 3: these built right now are spread apart, artificially, spread apart 467 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 3: by cars, so the distances that people need to bike 468 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: or walk, and that gets into motorized vehicles too. Why 469 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: we're having them right now is because we've we've we've 470 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: built our cities and our communities to car side dimensions, 471 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 3: and that's what's creating the pressure for these motorized vehicles 472 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 3: that you that that this show is you know, primarily about, 473 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 3: which is that you know, people, people are reaching for 474 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 3: these motorized vehicles because of the fact that we still 475 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 3: have communities built these dimensions that are made for cars. 476 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 3: And with time, with time, you would see that that 477 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 3: would start. People would start building in different ways, in 478 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 3: more affordable ways. The problem is that living spread out 479 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 3: like that, it's just a much more unaffordable way to live. 480 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 3: That's why we have communities in this country that are 481 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 3: going bankrupt and people too. 482 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have, we had in the nineteen fifties. The 483 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 2: eyes are our administration invested in interstate commerce and people 484 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: can drive from from here to New York in, you know, 485 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: on a good day, four four and a half hours. 486 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: I guess we can take a little longer to bike. 487 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: Let's do this. Let's just I got to go. I'm 488 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 2: five minutes later for the news. I've enjoyed this conversation immensely. 489 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: I think that, and it's a good conversation to have. 490 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 2: By the way, I think that the bicyclist who whose 491 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 2: interest I think you represent very effectively have broken down 492 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 2: barriers and have established bike lanes, and now there are 493 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: others coming behind in these e bikes and these small scooters. 494 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 2: That's what we will talk about. I want to go 495 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 2: to phone calls. I have callers already. We'll get to them. 496 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: I'll remind them to be polite and be conversational, ask questions, 497 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 2: and we'll be back right after this news break. At 498 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: the bottom of the air, my name is Dan Ray. 499 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 2: This is Nightside. I'm enjoying it. I hope you are 500 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: as well. A little bit later on tonight, we will 501 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 2: talk with Bill Brett at ten o'clock about a couple 502 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 2: of his new books, one dealing with the Marine Corps, 503 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: the other dealing with veterans who live in the Greater 504 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 2: Boston area. And then we will talk with the general 505 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 2: manager of Centerfolds. That is an emporium of interpretive dance. 506 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: Some people refer to them as strip clubs. We did 507 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 2: an hour on Monday night. There's concern in Chinatown about 508 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: these the move, the physical move of this club from 509 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 2: a kind of a side out of the way area 510 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: of the Grain Street on to Stewart Street. We'll deal 511 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 2: with that during the ten o'clock hour. My guest right 512 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 2: now Paul Basking, a writer and journalist living in Winthrop. 513 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: He obviously feels as deeply about this issue as I do. 514 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 2: We've kept at civil, and I think I know we 515 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: can keep it civil for the balance of the album. 516 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: We'll be back balance the hour back on Nightside right 517 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 2: after this, It's night Time with Dan Ray. 518 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: I'm WBZ, Boston's news Radio. 519 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: Hi. 520 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 5: I'm Carrie Olandy of Milburgh Modula Homes. We build affordable, 521 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 5: custom made attached to in law modular editions for family homes. 522 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 5: See floor plans in our contact form at Milburgholmes dot com. 523 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: Hi. 524 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 6: I'm Melissa Butler, founder of menu Order AI, the app 525 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 6: to make smarter food choices and seconds find high protein 526 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 6: GLP one friendly, low carbon, lowpointmeils at order app ai 527 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 6: dot com. 528 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 2: Hi. 529 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 7: This is Russ Hackman, host of The Wall Street Sweeper 530 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 7: and author of the book Wall Street Is Not Your Friend. 531 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 7: Join me this Sunday, ten am on WBZ NewsRadio. This 532 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 7: week twenty twenty five is winding down, but there's still 533 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 7: time to make smart strategic moves before the ball drops. 534 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 7: From rmds and roth conversions to charitable giving and portfolio cleanup. 535 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: We'll walk you through what to do and what to 536 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 2: avoid so you can. 537 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 7: Enter twenty twenty six with confidence. FOT hope you'll join 538 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 7: us for The Wall Street Sweeper this Sunday at ten 539 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 7: am on WBZ NewsRadio. 540 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 8: Every Sunday morning, Russ Hackland discussed his financial and retirement 541 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 8: strategies to consider. 542 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 7: It's all about income and cash flow and where does 543 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 7: that cash flow come from and retirement. 544 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 8: Russ Hacklan is president of Hackland Wealth Partners and author 545 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 8: of the book Wall Street. 546 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 2: Is Not Your Friend. 547 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 8: Hackland Well Partners six one seven, six seven four two thousand, 548 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 8: six one seven six seven four two thousand. 549 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 2: The Wall Street Sweeper with Russ. 550 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 8: Heckman Sunday Morning, set ten on WBZ News Radio, the 551 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 8: free iHeartRadio app. 552 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 6: Live Radio twenty four seven News, Live Sports. 553 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: And your favorite podcasts of pure connection to what moves you. 554 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: The best part, it's all free. 555 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 8: To join the millions who already have it on their smartphone. 556 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: The free iHeartRadio app the number one app for radio. 557 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: I want to go to Kristin k right now. She's 558 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: over the downtown area. A lot of people have said 559 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: to me, I wave to Kristin when she goes by. 560 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: Can she see me waving to her? Here's Kristin k 561 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: now in the WBZ News Radio traffic copter. I care 562 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: as see you that. 563 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 2: I think this would be a good time to remind 564 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 2: everyone that Hello is all five. 565 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,959 Speaker 1: If you are trying to get a message to our 566 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: traffic reporters, you can always call the WBZ Phone Force 567 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: six one seven seven oh one, ten thirty, but please 568 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: keep it cleaning five figures. Hello Traffic on the threes. 569 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: On WBZ Boston's news Radio. 570 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 6: I'm Madison Rogers with a quick check of the stories 571 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:26,239 Speaker 6: trending right now on WBZ news Radio ten thirty. At 572 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 6: the nation's airports, it's already begun. Flights are being cut 573 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 6: due to the shutdown. Bostin Logan is one of dozens 574 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 6: of busy airports where airlines have been told to reduce 575 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 6: traffic by ten percent starting tomorrow, and there are fears 576 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 6: of chaos mass bordering. Anyone with travel plans to check 577 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 6: their flight status before heading to the airport. Stay with 578 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 6: WBZ News Radio for the latest. There's also been another 579 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 6: major development on SNAP benefits out of Rhode Island Federal Court. 580 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 6: A judge now ordering the Trump administration to fully fund 581 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 6: the grocery benefits for November and send that money out 582 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 6: by tomorrow to forty two million Americans. I'll be really 583 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 6: directed about things what's happening right now in our country, 584 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 6: and President Trump's decision to withhold SNAP benefits is unconscionable. 585 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 6: That's Governor Healey speaking at an annual event at the 586 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 6: Greater Boston Food Bank in Madison, Rogers. 587 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: If you've listened to my show for nineteen years, you've 588 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: heard me talk a lot about Windoworld of Boston. Eric 589 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 2: and ren Apvidy of owned Window World of Boston for 590 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 2: over twenty years. 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It 609 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 2: is time to love where you live, and no no 610 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 2: full service exterior of remodeler will make you love where 611 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 2: you live more than Window World of Boston. Window World 612 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: of Boston dot com. You will never regret dealing with 613 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: Window World. I have windows that I'm looking at right now, 614 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: and I can tap on him there within reach of me. 615 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 2: These windows have been there for fifteen years, and they 616 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 2: look as good today as the day they were installed. 617 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: And they are as air tight as the day they 618 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 2: were installed as well. Great products, great prices. Windoworld of 619 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 2: Boston dot com. 620 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio. 621 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 2: Back to the calls. My guest is Paul Baskin, a 622 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: writer and journal and he wrote a piece in The 623 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: Boston Globe and late September called move motorized Vehicles out, 624 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 2: e Bikes and scooters out of the bike lanes. Diana 625 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,959 Speaker 2: in Malden, Diana, you are next on Night Side. I 626 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: got pack lines, quick comment or question, whichever you prefer. 627 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: Go right ahead, Diana. 628 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 9: Good evening, Dan, thank you for taking my call. 629 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 2: You're welcome. 630 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 9: Thank you. 631 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 3: Paul. 632 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 9: Just wanted to make a different type of a question for. 633 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: You from me. 634 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 10: So I respect bike lanes and respect bikes and any 635 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 10: type of motorized vehicles. However, I wanted to I've always wondered, 636 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 10: why is it that if we're. 637 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 9: In the if we are a motorized vehicle moving vehicle, 638 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 9: and we have to pay for insurance and stuff like that. 639 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 9: How come bicycles and other types of mopits or whatever 640 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 9: aren't required to pay some kind of insurance for protection 641 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 9: like we're doing on the road if we're sharing the 642 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 9: road with everyone else that you know has to be 643 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 9: licensed and registered. And you know, that's my question. I 644 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 9: always wonder about that. 645 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 3: Well. I think part of the answer is that cars 646 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 3: kill about forty thousand people a year in the in 647 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 3: the United States, and bikes kill I think zero or 648 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 3: maybe one if it happens. So, and if you're talking 649 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 3: about motorized motorized vehicles motorized bikes, there's a lot of 650 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: actors active debate as to whether they should actually have 651 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 3: some kind of insurance since they are motorized vehicles. That's 652 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 3: that's part of the debate that that the end has 653 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: been talking about here. 654 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also think I also think Diana, and 655 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: this is a point Paul and I might agree upon. 656 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: In the motorized vehicles, I would say that if you're 657 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 2: taking up road space with bike lanes, you should have 658 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 2: not a lot, but you've got to have some skin 659 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: in the game here. In my opinion, and I don't 660 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 2: see where the forty deaths of motorized vehicles. I'm not 661 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: sure that that is still that high. By the way, 662 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 2: I'd have to double check that figure out, but I'll 663 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 2: accept your figure for arguments argument purposes. We also lose 664 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: a lot of people in airline crashes, and unfortunately that's 665 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: the decision people. Every time I get on an airline, 666 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 2: I'm always convinced, Paul, this is going to be the 667 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: one that hits the deck. And we saw that horrific 668 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 2: crash in Louisville. That's part of the society. We could 669 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: we could go back to living in caves, I guess, 670 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,719 Speaker 2: and get rid of cars and airplanes and and huddle 671 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 2: around bonfires every night. 672 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 3: But cars, you just look theysics by mile, cars are 673 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 3: more deadly than these other options. You're talking about that, 674 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 3: but they will. 675 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 2: Tell you that, they'll they'll say that air that airplanes 676 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 2: are safer than uh than cars. But when an airplane 677 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: goes down, generally there's a lot of folks that go 678 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 2: down with it. Diana, you had a great question. Thank you. 679 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: I don't know if you've called before, but please, this 680 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: is a busy night, call back anytime. 681 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 10: Thank you, so much, thank you, thank you, welcome. 682 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 2: Thank you. Let me go next to Arthur and Boston. 683 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: Arthur got to be quick for me. My guest is 684 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 2: Paul Basket. Say hi to Paul. What's your comment? A question? 685 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 3: Hello Paul. 686 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 11: So here's my thing, and I live at Downtown crossing 687 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 11: and drive through this every day when nobody is in 688 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 11: the bike lane. But how about we go back to 689 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 11: the same road and the same rules for everybody. And 690 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 11: bikes also have a headlight and a tail light at night, 691 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 11: so when I'm walking through the crosswalk, they're not running 692 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 11: me over when I'm crosswalking on Tremont Street or weaving 693 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 11: in and out of me when I'm leaving in the 694 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 11: Boston in the morning, trying to get through ninety three 695 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 11: racing up to the light in front of me. 696 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 3: Yep, So I think the same rules is good. I mean, well, 697 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 3: we're all sharing the same road. We should have the 698 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 3: same rules. So what you're you're referencing is all the 699 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 3: rules are pretty much built for cars, and then so 700 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 3: people people are doing it with not car based rules. 701 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 11: No they're not, No, they're not. 702 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 3: I see a lot of bikeycles in the morning. 703 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 11: At outshakes and and the bicycles are weaving in and 704 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 11: out getting in front of me when I'm heading to 705 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 11: the highway. That's that's not that at all. 706 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 3: All right, Arthur, you've. 707 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: Made your point. I think that you and Paul might 708 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: be going around here, but you've made a very uh 709 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 2: you know, interesting interesting point. Paul, give you a quick 710 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 2: final word if you want with Arthur, but I got 711 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 2: a couple more left to work in as well. Go ahead. 712 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: I mean, one example of stop lights, stop lights are 713 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 3: built solely for cars. There bicycles have no need for them. 714 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 3: So so when you're talking about the same rules for everybody, 715 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 3: then then. 716 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 2: You would presumably bicyclists have have a need for red 717 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 2: lights at intersections. I mean, if you want to blow 718 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 2: through a red light, good good. 719 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 3: Luck because of a car. But but I'm talking about 720 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 3: in terms of in terms of in terms of what 721 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 3: the bike. The need that the bike creates is not 722 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 3: one for a for a red light. That's that's the 723 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 3: device that's solely for the. 724 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 2: Well, if we got yeah in our car in the 725 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: perfect world for you, Paul, and there are no cars 726 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 2: in the road, you just have to make sure you 727 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: don't get sides wiped by another bike. But that's not reality. Hey, Arthur, 728 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: thank you for your call. Appreciate it very much. Let 729 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: me go to Tom in North Carolina, and we actually 730 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 2: do have listeners all over the country. Paul, go ahead, Tom, 731 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 2: you're next with Paul Basking go right ahead. 732 00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 12: Yeah, this is Tom. I'm seventy two, retired frequent listener 733 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 12: and a second time caller, right and I've bicycled in 734 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 12: New Jersey, North Carolina, Colorado, Switzerland, and the Netherlands, and 735 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 12: I would love to get you Dan and you Paul 736 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 12: together to go to the Netherlands and a bicycle for 737 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 12: four or five days, all kinds of weather. The first 738 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 12: time I ever went there, I was on a rented bike. 739 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 12: And then the first day I rode in the rain 740 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 12: in November comfortably on bike trails with sick what it 741 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 12: called synchronized stoplights for bike trails so that you could 742 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 12: ride safely through the traffic, and did fifty eight miles 743 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 12: that first day with no problem at all. And I'll 744 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 12: just say, have Paul, have you have you been to 745 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 12: the Netherlands. Have you investigated how the Netherlands got to 746 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 12: where they are, because I know it. 747 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 2: Wasn't by the way, Tom, so I agree. And by 748 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: the way, thank you for calling, because this is a 749 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 2: call that I think fundamentally supports Paul's position ahead. 750 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 12: Damn, have you ridden the bike trails in the Nean? 751 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 2: No? I have not, but I I have stood and 752 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 2: watched people ride bikes in the Netherlands, so I I 753 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 2: understand it's very different. But that's okay. I want to 754 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 2: get a quick. 755 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 12: Comment, talk a video on line of it. 756 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that. Give give Paul 757 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: a quick Paul, if you can be quick. I got 758 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 2: one other caller I'd like to try to sneak in 759 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: as well. 760 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 3: Well, you can move on. I take a point and 761 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 3: we can get time. Let's move on. 762 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: Fure enough, okay, Tom, thank you for the call. Stay 763 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 2: safe out there, my friend to keep calling night side. 764 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 2: Thank you. Let me go. We're gonna wrap it up 765 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 2: here with Phil in Boston. Phil, I only got a 766 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 2: minute for you. You're with call basket. 767 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 4: Ask the question, what's this ultimate goal? 768 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 13: And I suspect this no vehicles out there? 769 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: Okay, that's hold on, that's a great question. Is your 770 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 2: ultimate goal no cars in the roads? 771 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 3: No question, No, not at all. You're obstruct your first 772 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 3: caller made the point that he comes from Hanson and 773 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 3: drives up for work reasons. He brings his vehicle because 774 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,959 Speaker 3: it's for work. The people blocking him or the people 775 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 3: driving their cars up there just to drive them up 776 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 3: and put them in parking rodgers. And then working in office, 777 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 3: that's who's blocking him from getting in. 778 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 2: And people do do they do they relocate? 779 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 3: No, they continue, They would have they would have a 780 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 3: train service. And that gets the up second point he 781 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 3: talked about working on the Big Dig. The Big Gig 782 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 3: is a great example of of misplaced priorities. We've dug 783 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 3: that ton of underneath downtown Boston and filled it with cars, 784 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 3: and we did not put the space in it for 785 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 3: the train to go from North Station to the South. 786 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 2: When when the Big Dig is completed, traffic is going 787 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 2: to be absolutely perfect. That's what that's what they're telling us. Yeah, 788 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 2: I wanted to end on the juckle. Phil, Great question, 789 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 2: great question. 790 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 4: It's almost a cult. 791 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 10: Well. 792 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 4: I was surrounded one day by cow Abor ten years ago, 793 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 4: a circle of bicycles, bicycles Coso Goso, go Gozo bicycle. 794 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 13: That was getting very violent. Like I think it's the 795 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 13: pointer is is that they drive I drive a truck 796 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 13: so they wouldn't have their little bikeis if I wasn't 797 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 13: delivering the bikes on Phil, fill your cud late. 798 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 2: I got you in, but they gotta let you go. 799 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 2: Thank you, my friend. Talk to you soon, call again, Paul. 800 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 2: You you're great sport. I thank you. Is there some 801 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 2: sort of group you want to plug or anything? Uh, 802 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 2: And we'll do this again if you'd like. I'd love 803 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 2: to do this. 804 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, I like Boston Cyclic Union and 805 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 3: Math Bike. Although they don't agree me with me on 806 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 3: some of the stuff too, but but I think they 807 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 3: they're doing it. They're both doing a very nice job 808 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 3: for that, you know, for in a positive direction, and 809 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 3: I'm git grateful for them. 810 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 2: Well, thanks, thanks for joining us tonight. It was fun 811 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 2: and maybe we'll do it again as we we can 812 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 2: do it some night when the blue this was going 813 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 2: on and we can really get people riled up. Thanks Paul. 814 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: I appreciate it very much. I enjoyed that. 815 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 3: Thank you. 816 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 2: Thanks, have a great night on the Here comes the 817 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 2: ten o'clock news. We got a couple of interesting guests 818 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:11,439 Speaker 2: coming up in ten