WEBVTT - 2-12-26 Scott Sloan Show 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:05.640 Scott's loan return here seven hundred WLW. Here we go 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.600 back half the week. We all good sew. Here's what 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:14.680 you need to know. Pharmaceuticals very expensive, especially insulin. If 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.680 you are on insulin, you know how expensive that is. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.079 And the Federal Trade Commission a number of states and cities, 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:26.479 and now Hamilton County, Ohio suing three pharmacy benefit managers 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.040 at ECBs, care Mark, Express Scripts and optim Rx, as 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:36.160 well as Eli, Lilly, Novo, Nordisk, and another manufacture. And 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.720 those comprise about ninety six ninety seven percent of the 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.239 insulin market. And the reason they're suing them is for 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.800 allegedly fixing insulin and diabetes drug prices. So right now, 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:46.559 if you look at the cost it would have cost 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:48.960 them because about now less than are around two dollars 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.760 a vile to make that sells for literally hundreds of 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.480 times to that. We're talking one to three hundred times 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.880 what the cost is. And the suit alleges illegal price manipulation. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.120 On this is County Commissioner Denise Treehouse. Welcome back to 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:04.080 the show, Denise. How are you. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.160 I'm good, good morning, Scott. 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.520 Good Mark. You seem healthy. I'm healthy In this regard. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:11.759 I am not on insulin, and I also don't think 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.800 I have anyone of my immediate family on insulin. But 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:15.959 I hear the horror stories. 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:19.800 Oh, there are many, many people that use insulin. It's 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.759 a life saving drugs. And in Hamilton County we've got 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.280 about eighty eight hundred county employees and family members that 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:27.640 use insulin, and that. 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:33.400 I believe is the highest drug category for coverage, right, yeah, yeah. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:37.760 Fromenty twenty three to twenty twenty five, this diabetes medication 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.080 was the single highest cost prescription drug category for the county. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.880 Okay, So what triggered the county to jump in this lawsuit? 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:44.080 Now? 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.240 Was there a particular spiking costs complaints from employees or 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.920 was it because the FTC settled with Express Scripts and said, hey, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.600 there's an opportunity here to go after the other pharmacy 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.280 benefit managers and certainly the drug manufacturers. 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.480 Well, prosecutor pillage this to our attention, to be fair, 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:04.200 I didn't. This wasn't my idea, although I love the 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:09.679 idea because other communities, as you just said, were waging lawsuits. 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.119 They're about five hundred and fifty other entities, whether they're 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.320 state cities, health plans and so they are, you know, 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:19.359 weighing in on this, and we didn't want to miss 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.840 the boat. It kind of reminds me of the opioid 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:26.359 settlements where we were chewing and then we joined others 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.639 in that lawsuit to bring some resources down to Hamilton County. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.280 All right, No, that makes sense. I know that the 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:34.880 defendants here in this is in case the companies point 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.960 out that previous insulin pricing cases have been dropped or 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.799 lost or settled for no money. What makes you think 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.080 this time is the magic charm, the magic bullet in 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.680 Hamlin County and the other areas of successful days. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.560 Well, first of all, we're not paying anything upfront to 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.639 wage the lawsuit because we only pay if we win, 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.839 and so much like the opioid settlement, right, so we're 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:01.280 not no money lost to hear. But also what we 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.000 know is that, as you said, the cost of insulin 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.760 is skyrocketed, but the cost to produce insulin has gone down, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.880 and so we are waging that they are colluding. They 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.720 are it's false price fixing, and so that's what we're 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.560 saying in the lawsuit. And I think we've got a 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.600 really good case in winning, as do five hundred and 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.120 forty nine other jurisdiction. 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.239 Yeah, in the drug manufacturer as they say that the 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:26.720 out of pocket costs are pretty low. Lily's been claiming listen, 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.160 it's like less than fifteen bucks a month on average. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.480 So if the math mass there, if employees aren't paying 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.240 hundreds of per mile out of pocket, who's actually bearing 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.920 the inflated costs? That's the big question is taxpayers to 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.240 the county plan And that's why the county's evolved because 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:41.160 this is taxpayer money. 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.840 Well, we're paying thirteen million dollars for insulin coverage for 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.040 the county. That's a lot of money. And if we 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.640 can reduce that cost because we don't have these folks 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.160 colluding about price fixing, then we reduce the cost to 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.400 the county, and that translates the cost savings for the 0:03:59.400 --> 0:03:59.880 tax payers. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.280 The PBMs argue that they're actually the counterweight, that they 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.440 balance pharmaceutical the pharmaceutical monopoly with this and that they 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.920 can negotiate down prices. How would you respond to that? 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:09.960 Why they included in the suit? 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:14.560 Then well, that's that's a question for the prosecutor. I mean, 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.599 I'm not an attorney and I don't pretend to be one. 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:17.719 But the process. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.400 That's why I like you, Denise, That's why we like you. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.640 Yeah, I only say what I know. But Connie and 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.080 her team have identified the as you say, the drug 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.360 manufacturers and the benefit managers as part of this lawsuit. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.000 I trust that, and I'm more than happy to pile 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.760 on and say, yes, this sounds like a good idea. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.839 We need to go after these guys and say the 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:41.680 taxpayer some money. 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.040 That's what I'm calling you. You were right in the 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:44.800 coach of Cokannie's doing all the talking. You were standing 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:46.600 in the background. I like that. I like that. You're 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.400 get a look crowdit for standing back there and ride 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.920 the vape trail. She is Denniy's freehouse Hamlet County commissioner. 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.960 We're talking about the county now jumping on the lawsuit bandwig. 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:58.760 And no cost to the taxpayers either, because there's a 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.840 contingency basis. They went to the back of the proverbial 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.520 phone book and found lawyers out to think out of 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.880 phillyre somewhere and said, Okay, we're going to try this 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:10.440 as a class and it's Philadelphia. It's also, as I mentioned, 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.440 other states are getting involved with US as well. I 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.960 think Hamilton in the first county to do this, and 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.279 they're upset about obviously high insulin prices. You need that 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.680 to live, and the costs of production are dwarfed by 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.680 the cost it actually winds up paying by taxpayers and 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.160 those people who need that medicine to live. We're talking 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.240 one hundred two hundred three hundred percent mark up on that, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.440 and that is the cause for the suit here too. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:34.880 But part of this is how much of this is 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.440 should be at the federal government's feet though, you know, 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.400 the opia you mentioned at the onset denise about this 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.720 kind of models the opiate lawsuit. But you know, as 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.920 I recall with opiate, it's one of the big problems, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:46.479 was it no one ever addressed was well, you know, 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.120 the FDA mandated, the government mandated that pain be treated 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.040 as a fifth vital sign, and so that encouraged the 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.080 over prescription of these things that later the government said, 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:57.599 well they're bad for you. Well, you had a hand 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.560 of that, you drove that. I think the same thing 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.960 is here. You know. The one of the big problems 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.240 is patent ever greening. I'm out of here familiar with that, 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.400 but the original patents expired a decade ago, and what 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.760 they do is they just slightly reformulated to keep the 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.120 patent alive to make more money. Is that something you 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:13.400 can be cleaned up by Congress? 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.400 Well, I mean I think we should be tackling this 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.680 at all levels, of course, but this one is you know, 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.800 and by the way, we hope to be part of 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.440 a multi jurisdictional litigation that's coming out of New Jersey. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:28.679 So that's what this is about. 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:29.440 So we are. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.200 Filing it individually. And if we don't get to be 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:36.600 part of the multi jurisdiction litification, that's fine, we'll pursue 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.359 it on our own. But the idea here, much like 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.920 the opioids, is to join together with others that are 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.320 doing the same thing to bring down resources to our 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.400 local community. If we don't file suit, we miss out. 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:51.360 And why would we do that. I mean, you know 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.240 so because so many others are in and yes, we 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.640 should tackle this at all levels, but we don't want 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.640 Hamilton County to be left out of you know, what's 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.560 happened in many other states and jurisdictions. 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.599 I always go on record, God, I always hate what 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.520 politics is doing in this country right now because it's 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.320 so mindless in bottom feeding and my side VI your side, 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.680 And I'm not alleging you doing that, but I'd go 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.240 back and go you know, this has been a problem 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.880 for a long time. Why are we waiting until now 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:19.760 to address it? Because this has been a problem under 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.840 Republican administrations as well as Democrats. And the lawsuit targets 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.720 PBS and manufactures. But like I said, you know, the 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.880 rebate system we can get into that is the core problem. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.000 But like I said, you know, whether it's that or 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.120 the patent issue, patent evergreening, or the PBM scheme that 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:40.360 requires legislation to fix, not litigation, what's forcing Congress to 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.560 actually do their job here other than going after the 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:44.960 I guess the people are profiting it from which feels 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.800 good and it's very very populous, but again it doesn't 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.960 address the core issue, and that is government helped create 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:50.440 this whole thing. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.240 Well, and I you know, I can't speak to why 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.600 the government at the federal level is not acting on this. 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:57.920 I mean I can't speak for them. 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.040 No money is why they're not acting on it. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.280 Well, well, you know you have to ask them. And 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.160 again I'm not going to speak for other people. But 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.960 this litigation out of New Jersey is the prompt here. 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.160 That is the reason for the action. Now there's something 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.160 going on, it's got legs. We want to take advantage 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:16.600 of that. We want to be part of it. And 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.679 so that from my understanding, and again and prosecutor brought 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.920 this to it, But that is a prompt on by 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.360 way of timing, because there's something rolling down the tracks, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.840 and if we don't jump on and file suit, we 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.240 miss and so we don't want to miss that. So 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:31.360 the opportunity is now. 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.560 Okay, if you win, though, get what you want in 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.080 your fourth lower prices. What's going to prevent these companies 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:37.840 from simply exiting the Ohio market. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:40.920 I don't know the answer to that. 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.240 I mean, that's a third round. I don't know that 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:44.840 they will, but that's a third round. Like, hey, if 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.400 we can't make money off this, then we're out. We've 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.120 seen that happen elsewhere and I don't know if that 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.640 happened here or not, but that's that's pretty sobering. And 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:54.520 then where you get your diabetes medication. 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:59.800 Well, I'm not suggesting that these companies shouldn't make money. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.560 We're saying that they shouldn't be colluding with one another 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.360 to jack up prices on taxpayers. That's what we're saying. 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.560 I mean, I am not used to be a small 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.960 business owner, as I've told you before. So you know, 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.920 businesses make money. That's fine, they've got their nets, they're 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:18.280 selling insulin, that's great. But to collude and falsely elevate 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.840 prices is something entirely different. And so that's what we're saying. 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.320 We're not saying they shouldn't make money, and they will 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.839 make money, but they shouldn't make as much as they 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:28.400 are by colluding with one another. 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.280 Gotcha, did you guys have to make going into this 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:35.040 to Connie share with you what the estimate of potential 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.720 recovery is here? How much money? 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:37.440 You know? 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:38.920 I asked that question. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.280 So I just told you that we're spending about thirteen 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.679 million for this cost of account. It's a lot of money, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.360 and so I mean, I don't know the answer to that, 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.400 but if it's a few millions, that's really meaningful in 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.280 a budget that's you know, strained and will be strained 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.200 last year, it'll be strained next year. But any money 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.719 that we can find to help with that is going 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:00.920 to be to our benefits. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.839 For sure, who would get the money? Does go back 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.560 in the general fund? Does it? Does it go directly 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.440 towards prescription prices and offset with the county pays? Does 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:14.800 it go to to the Bengals? Where's the money going somehow? 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.760 Wait there, I think Mike Brown gets a percentage. I 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.760 don't know how this sits. Apparently in the master agreement. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.280 Is your preoccupation with the bankers? But no, no, it'll 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.080 go into the general fund. And so then we have 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.120 to make a decision commissioners. You know, the general fund 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.760 pays for the deputies for for nine to one one 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.040 call takers. Are all the things that we've always talked about. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.840 Or is it a benefit to those that are in 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.440 the benefits system the healthcare system of the county. And 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.920 do we offer some relief somewhere else for our employees 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:46.920 or do we put it more towards the general fund 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.840 for more general purposes. And that's something we'll have to 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:50.680 decide down the road. 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.440 If this is successful, does that open the door for 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.199 other suits for other things that might be expensive? I mean, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.520 do you just continue this path? I'm not saying it's 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.120 a bad path, but what open mind? Hey, we got 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:03.720 money we're able to fix this, what's next. 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.200 Well, I think we always should be open to an 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.160 opportunity when there's a big suit going on in multi 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.360 jurisdiction litigation, I think we should always be open to 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.760 piling on it is worthy, right, if it's worthy of 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.640 our attention. Again, we're not paying any money to do 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.000 this right now. It's on a contingent basis, So that's 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.760 the good news for the taxpayers. But yeah, I don't 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.920 know why we wouldn't look for opportunities to write size 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.480 things in Hamilton County. But again, you know, I'm not 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.560 the prosecutor, and so the prosecutor's job literally is to 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.040 file these actions with the support of the Commission, and 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:37.120 so that's what we're doing here. 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.480 Yeah, yeah, I mean this has been a let's face it, 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.280 back to politics. This has been a talking point for 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.200 Democrats for a long long time. I mean, it used 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.240 to be the insulin cost two dollars to make. That's 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.920 been thrown around for a long long time. And now 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:52.240 we're there's action on this. And you know, obviously Democrats 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.760 get hammered on cost of living issues, and now that's 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:56.439 starting to turn the other way. But you know, I 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.360 think this is maybe a populist idea here that has 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.520 some legs, and find out exactly if you can get 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.160 some money back from these companies. I just wonder, why 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:07.800 don't we just address the route. As you said, that's 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.679 outside of your scope as a commissioner. I appreciate and 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.199 understand that. I think we're both frustrated with the system 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.640 the way it is right now, especially with healthcare. I 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.600 don't know if this fixes it, but it does cost 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.240 some of that money back, because you know, if you 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.600 need insulin to live and you can't afford it, that's 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:23.760 a huge problem. And also that thirteen million dollars that 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.000 the county pays, and these are for people who have 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.679 coverage because they work for the county. There's so many 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.760 people that don't, and that's a scary part well. 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.160 And you know, we don't want these companies taking advantage of, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.160 you know, providing a drug that's life saving to people 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.000 in our community. I mean it's insulting, I think. And 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.640 so when you particularly when you talk about insulin, because 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.439 it's not like this is some drug that people may 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.760 or may not want to use. This is life saving. 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.440 People need the drug. And to to collude over the 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.640 prices of insulin I think is an insult. I really do. 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.760 And so we're holding the companies accountable. 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:01.000 I think that's what we should do. 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.400 I think that's what frankly, people expect of their elected officials. 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:06.920 And so you know what we're doing it the time 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.199 is right. I can't really speak to the timing otherwise, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.400 but I know that the timing is right here to 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.360 join this suit coming out of New Jersey, and so 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:16.200 that's what we're doing. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.480 Do you believe there's a collusion going on or is 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:19.400 that is that a fact? 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.920 Has it been proven that that is what is being alleged. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:25.840 Yeah, that's a tough one to prove that they're all 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.880 in on this together than saying, hey, it costs what 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:29.760 a cost? And the way the system is set up 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.079 that that those who regulate the system allowed this to occur. 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.480 I think it'd be more of an indictment of the 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.480 of the politics of those again above us in Washington 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.360 versus the companies themselves. They've they've got to find a 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.160 way to make money, and it's kind of like you know, 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.760 the cries over you know, billionaires paying too few tax 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.920 as well, Okay, then fix the system, close those loopholes 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.240 that you allege are there. That's why are you beating 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.079 down on the people who are smart enough to figure 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:55.400 that out. 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.600 I agree, But we just talked about the cost of 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.920 producing insulin going down, and yet the cost of buying 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:03.920 it is going up. So there's something going on here. 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.200 I think that doesn't make sense, and so I agree 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:08.120 with you that you know. 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:09.600 These are broader issues. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:11.800 We can do what we can do here in Hamilton 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.840 County to protect the taxpayers here. That's my job and 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.480 that's what we're trying to do. And you know, it's 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.520 not as if others don't see what's happening. I mean, 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.520 five hundred and fifty other jurisdictions of files too. So 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.680 this is a big movement and certainly people are paying attention. 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:27.960 Yeah, it's on the heels of tobacco. It's on the 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.840 heels of the opiate issue as well, and this certainly 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.960 fits into that category. Is like, the next thing is 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.520 affordable drugs Insulin for crying outline. I mean, there's other 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.320 drugs out there. I think, like you know, the EpiPen thing. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.680 Epinephrine is another in that effects far fewer people than 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.760 than insulin. But i'd imagine if this is successful, that 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.440 might be something that would be explored. It's a life 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.160 saving medication that you need. And you know, we heard 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.960 that for a long time. It's like, well they only 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:55.840 last I forgot what is ninety days or six months 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.160 or something like that, and we've got to throw them 0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:59.440 out and get a new one and it's just simply 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.560 not affordable. We don't heard those crises as much anymore. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.800 There are some I think there was some regulation that's 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.440 been done, but you know, there are plenty of drugs 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.160 out there that you could wind up going after as 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:07.720 a result of this. 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.160 Well, that's right, and epiethin's are extremely expensive. So I've 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.720 got some personal experience with one of my relatives, right, 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.360 So yeah, I mean, I agree with you. And let's 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.360 not forget though that the benefit and this is a 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.040 little different from the opioid settlement money, but those dollars 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:29.040 that we are investing now because we were successful and 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.880 that lawsuit, are going directly into Hamilton County to save 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.760 lives and get people into treatment. I mean so, and 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.560 then it's coming through the foundation at the state level, 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.240 but there are direct payments coming to Hamilton County and 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:45.760 other jurisdictions in Hamilton County to the benefit of our constituents. 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.280 So this is real. The benefits are real. This is 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.440 a little different because it's going to the general fund, 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.280 but those are taxpayer dollars and so you know, I 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.520 just don't want to understate that there's a real benefit 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.160 here if we win and there's no cast involved to 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.320 do it, so you know, again, to me, it's just 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:08.880 a win win situation. So yeah, but the benefits can 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:10.360 be real and seen on the ground. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.640 Has this fir amount in New Jersey? Have the litigators 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.160 giving you a timeline? No? 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:19.160 I asked that question too, and you know how attorneys are. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.120 They were, Oh, yeah, not sure, you know we're doing 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.880 like all right, all right, I get it. So yeah, no, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.280 I'm you know, I'm not an attorney, and I'm not 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:29.520 I'm not disappointed by it. 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.240 Yeah right, well, I'm Suna. There's plenty attorneys out there, 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.480 some of our good friends of mine, and then there's 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.320 people like yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, get it. Hey, Denise, 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.560 thanks for jumping on this morning. Answer the question certainly 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.680 an interesting perspective. We're going to talk about this a 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:43.400 little bit behind your back, if you don't mind, we'll 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.560 get some calls and from people affected by this, and 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:47.600 you have a wonderful day. Thanks again for jumping on. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.120 Hey can I ask you something? 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:49.560 Yes, ma'am. 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.080 Yes, So, I don't know how much time we have, 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.440 but we did do a big dedication yesterday out at 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:59.080 in Bonds Hill for the big building, the Mercy Building 0:16:59.120 --> 0:16:59.320 out there. 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.720 Yes, right right right, yeah, yeah, please go ahead, yeah yeah. 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.760 So two days we named the street going up to 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.120 the building, Pat McCollum Way. This is a named after 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.439 a woman that took in many, many kids in our 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.840 community both foster care adoptive care, and was tragically killed 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.359 not so long ago, and so we named the street 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.880 after her because of the nexus with jobs and family services, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.440 so we wanted to honor her legacy through naming the street. 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.280 But the building itself was owned by Mercy. We now 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.679 have it. It's a consolidation of county services up in 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:37.359 one site, so lots of efficiencies here for jff d D, 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.680 public health, addiction response, environmental services, and veteran services are 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.240 going to be up there. So it's centrally located in 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.560 the county. And I just want to say there's free parking. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.400 There's free parking at this facility. There are a thousand 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.360 spots out there, and so you don't I always hear 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.359 about the cost of parking, how terrible it is to 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.480 come downtown. That is no longer the case, and so 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.080 we're very excited about this. It's accessible to people that 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.960 need that kind of access, particularly veterans. So we're really 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.000 excited about the opening of the building and we dedicated 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:10.720 it yesterday. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:12.600 You know, we were texting back and forth. I completely 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.160 forgot because I'm stupid to mention. I'm glad you brought 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:16.960 that up because I wanted to definitely get a plug 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:18.760 in for that six I think sixty million dollars is 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:20.960 the cost. Now you also have this is the other 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:22.960 hard part here is this huge levey on the ballot 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.600 for children's services. But love to revisit that maybe the 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:27.560 later date because those two things go together. You got 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:28.760 the building, but now you got a fund. 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.120 Well, the other thing is that we're getting out of 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.280 a bunch of different buildings because of all those departments. 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.760 We're in different buildings all over the city and so 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.240 as we just like the alms and depky Downtown is 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.280 a good example of it that is now going to 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.320 be converted into housing, as will a property up in 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.560 Walnut Hills, and so it's really great for the communities 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.560 because we're and you see this all over the country, 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.400 we're converting office space into residential and we need residential. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.200 So it's just really a great move for the county 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:58.240 and it's going to save money. 0:18:58.280 --> 0:18:59.680 All right, I'm sure we'll talk about that a later 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.520 date with the love come up and Denise all the best. 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.320 Thanks for jumping on. I appreciate you. Yeah, sure, all right, 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:05.760 got right, let me get a news update in. I 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:07.879 want to talk if you're on the insulin. I'm just 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.600 curious because I don't have anyone in my family that is. 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.160 And that's a blessing for sure, because I know how 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.639 hard that is being diabetic. But the impact of that, 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:17.359 I'm your wallet. And also if you think this is 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.040 a good idea ensuing the drug companies to get the 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:21.879 price of insulin down, we'll talk about that, dex. I'll 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.119 give you some reasons as to why you know this, 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.159 this whole scenario exists. I mentioned the government getting involved 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.639 in regulation that can easily fix on the men easily 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.240 but fixed by Congress. I want to touch on that 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:34.960 in just minutes and We'll get your phone calls in 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.320 at five one, three, seven four nine, seven thousand, iHeartMedia 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.000 and seven hundred w WIT Cincinnati's on Procter and Gamble. 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:41.960 If you've got someone there you would like for us 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.480 to recognize on the air, just text us their name 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.600 at five one eight eight one and be listening here 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:58.160 on seven hundred WWT. Here we go, Sloanly on seven 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.399 hundred WLW thanks to Commission Denise three House jumping on 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:07.639 the show this morning talking about this lawsuit involving Prescription 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.160 Benefit MATP Pharmacy Benefit Match, I should say, and three 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:16.000 drug manufacturers for allegedly fixing insulin and diabetes drug prices. 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.600 That there's collusion between the three is the alegation collusion? 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.120 We got collusion because insulin costs two dollars a vile 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.520 to make. That's a manufacturing cost. A mark up on 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:27.639 this thing costs the county thirteen million dollars for the 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.600 eighty eight hundred employees under its healthcare coverage, by far 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:36.000 the highest drug category cost and outline for them. And 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.680 so this on the heels of the FDC. The Federal 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.040 Trade Commission just settled with Express Scripts requiring business practice 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.760 changes and the like, and so they said this kind 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:46.639 of set the pattern. They settled. They see an opening. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.760 They also look at the opioid crisis litigation against drug 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.239 distributors and say, there's money to be regained for at 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:53.800 least the people here in this case, not what they 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.919 do with the money, the commissioners, who knows, but to 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.480 try and cls some of that money back. It is 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.399 a much much deeper issue. However, like anything like this, 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.760 than just going well, there are a bunch of crooks. Look, 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.760 we all pay a lot for prescription medication. Okay. I 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.800 am not a big fan of pharmacy benefit managers, even 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.440 though we have one here at iHeart and I'm lucky 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.600 to have it. Also not a you know, a fan 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.879 of people who are out to, you know, try to 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.000 make as much money as possible where you know, in 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.160 a fact where you're you're it's almost confiscatory. Listen, I'm 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.760 fine with profit, but you here are three hundred percent profit. 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:34.800 I hear that, and I go, okay, yeah, who wants 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.480 you know, profiteering and exploitation. I get all that, but 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.159 is this something that's being litigated that should be solved 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.760 by legislative needs? So we're litigating instead of legislating. And 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.040 again back to my central gripe here about government that 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.199 we've lost sight of because we're so polarized and entrenched in, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.120 you know, being ultra progressive and everything that you know, 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.520 the the party or everything that ultra progressive believe it. 0:21:58.520 --> 0:21:59.680 I have to believe so even though I think maybe 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.159 deep inside it's wrong, and I would say in the 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.800 same is true for MAGA, which you'll hear about later on. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.360 President Trump is proposing a ten percent cap on APR 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.400 credit card rates. We'll get into that eleven oh seven 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:13.280 on the show, and maybe a five time a little 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.280 bit more. Here is kind of the tease. But and 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:18.160 you gut to step back and think of that, going, well, 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.719 what is that sound? Well, our guy, our team's champion, 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.320 so it must be right. You know. Sometimes I think 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:26.680 the problems we've got to step back and think for 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.480 ourselves and go, yeah, isn't this going to cause more problem? 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:32.400 Or in this case with insulin, okay, is that really 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.919 driving it? Are they really mustache twirling, corporate, greedy Robert 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:40.400 drug Robert barons that are to fleece us of every 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.800 dime just to keep us alive? I mean, it feels 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:44.320 that way and it makes a good theater, but there's 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:46.360 that reality. You know what I mentioned with the denise 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:51.119 the patient evergreening thing, So what happens is insulin's barrown 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.679 for a long time, so original insulin patients, that patent 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.880 expired decades ago, and so you know, you can get 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.400 a generic human insulin and it's like twenty twenty five 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:05.280 bucks at like place like Walmart, for example. But what 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:09.600 they keep doing is tweaking the formulation in order to 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.399 restart the patent. So if you make a little change 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:16.000 to it, it restarts the patent, and now you're on 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:17.920 the clock again. Now they say it's new and improved, 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.680 and I know that Lily has improved their product multiple 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.920 times since the nineties, and each tweak extends that patent protection. 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.720 But the drugs themselves are just marginally better than the 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.000 previous version, you know, things like are faster acting, or 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:34.119 they stabilize your blood sugar more or something like that. 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.520 So you're locked in that version. It's legal, but it 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:41.720 feels exploitative. The pharmacy benefit scheme through the middleman problem, right, 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:43.439 and this is where it gets really crazy, is the 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.960 pharmacy benefit managers. These are your care marks, your express 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:51.760 scripture optims. They are between manufacturers, insurance, and pharmacy. So 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:55.760 they negotiate these rebates that manufacturers set at a hireless price, 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.239 and that gives the PBM kind of a kickback if 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:00.919 you'l So, for example, if the price and insulance, like 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:03.880 I don't know, the tag on it, like a car, 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:07.280 is three hundred dollars, the pharmacy benefit manager quote unquote 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:09.320 negotiates one hundred and fifty dollars rebates, so it's one 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.280 hundred and fifty dollars net cost. The problem is the 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:15.159 benefit manager's pocket summer most of that rebate instead of 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:19.280 passing the savings onto patients or insurers. Now, you know, 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.479 all for making a profit, but what are we doing here. 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:26.280 You're artificial and fronting the cost here. So the manufacturers 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:30.160 have to participate because hireless prices mean higher rebates, and 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.840 you could see this whole race to the top, and 0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:35.080 it's kind of like a perverse incentive here for drugs 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:38.120 that keep you alive right now, And this is another 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.720 problem that the government can solve, because government largely is 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:44.080 the problem here. There are three companies that are being 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:46.360 sued those are the three companies controlled like ninety six 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.160 ninety seven percent of the insulin market across the globe 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.040 by the way around the world. Question to be okay 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:53.440 with there's so much money in this, why is there 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:57.080 more competition? There's lots kind of be because there are 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:01.560 higher regulatory barriers, the clinical trials expensive because the testing 0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:07.320 process is very, very thorough and very expensive, and that's 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:09.879 also driving this whole thing up as well. So in 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.640 my book, and insurance certainly covers Insulnza, patients still see 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.240 the true cost until they hit their deductibles, and there's 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:20.119 no normal market pressure, so all of these artificial layers 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:22.320 in the market are what's causing the prices to be 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:25.800 absolutely outrageous in people who are going without their medication 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:29.359 to save their lives. It's also a huge regulatory failure. 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:32.760 I mentioned the opioid crisis. No one mentions it's driven 0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:35.560 was driven entirely by the FDA. It's like, why did 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:37.800 so many physicians start writing it? Is it because of 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:40.880 the evil people that are creating the drug? And they're 0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:43.520 looking the other way somewhat because you know, there's greed 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:45.879 there and government is supposed to check that, not encourage it. 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:48.280 What happened though, was the government said, oh, yeah, you 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:51.960 know what, pain is a fifth vital sign, let's just okay. Well, 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:53.920 then if that's the case and we can't allow people 0:25:53.960 --> 0:25:55.680 to be in pain, what the hell do you think 0:25:55.720 --> 0:26:00.119 doctors are going to do if it's being kind of 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:02.880 up to some degree by the manufacturer, like the addictive 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:05.240 nature of it, and the government's going, yeah, let's go 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:08.080 all in. Isn't the FDA's job to make sure this 0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:10.159 stuff is safe before we put in our bodies. And 0:26:10.240 --> 0:26:11.959 it happens all the time, you know, the drug comes 0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:14.480 out and oh, everybody take it, and then wait a minute, 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:18.320 I'm growing a third nipple on my forehead. Well then 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:20.240 they turn around and go The FDA goes, we're going 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:24.520 after the manufacturer. We're stopping them from gouging consumers and 0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:27.800 creating third nipples. You guys are supposed to be the 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:30.439 police here. You're supposed to be responsible making sure that 0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.960 didn't happen. Where's your liability in this, not us or 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:39.639 the government. We're here to help. So the regulatory failure, 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:43.160 in my opinion, the FDA approval, it's expensive, it's slow, 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:46.440 there's no price controls, that starts driving this whole thing. 0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:48.560 So it's yeah, I get it, there's greed involved. We 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:50.960 know that business people are greedy, they want more market share. 0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:53.760 I understand that we know that that is a foregone conclusion. 0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:56.720 But how about it demanding our government be more referee 0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:00.879 and less encouraging that kind of behavior. A lot of 0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:03.120 the stuff could be cleaned up if Congress actually showed 0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:05.600 up and did their job. I know that's that's unique, 0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:07.480 considering they shut down for a little bit on Monday 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:12.240 Tuesday over whatever it is this week. Maybe you see 0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:14.320 these people are running for Congress. Maybe i'd just say, 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.280 you know, what, are you gonna keep the government open? 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:18.679 Are you actually gonna do something besides campaign? Because that's 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:21.000 all I see. I see ads all the time. I'm 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:23.399 getting my phone blown up all the John Housteed's texting 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:25.720 me twenty four to seven about voting. Okay, great, but 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:29.240 what for what what are you guys doing? Are you 0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:32.159 actually getting your asses and like doing anything legislatively or 0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:35.000 just letting Trump signed executive orders and you're sitting back 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:39.080 at in the check five three, seven, four, nine, seven, 0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:42.080 eight hundred the Big One talk back iHeartRadio app So 0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:44.120 maybe you're on insulin. A loved one is how how 0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:46.440 hard is it? So I said, I don't have experience 0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:48.760 in this myself. I'm blessed. Families blessed. We don't have 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:52.560 people with the sugar. Have some few online friends it 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:54.520 might have that issue, but we don't really talk about 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:57.600 insulin prices. And like, I'm curious how this is impacting 0:27:57.600 --> 0:27:59.280 you and your take on this whole lawsuit. Let's go 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:00.960 to Rick and Clean. You searched up this morning on 0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:02.680 the Scot Salon show. Rick welcome, How are you brother? 0:28:05.480 --> 0:28:06.320 Big Ricky with me? 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:07.320 Rick? 0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:07.560 Quick? 0:28:07.600 --> 0:28:07.800 Quick? 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:08.200 Hey? 0:28:08.280 --> 0:28:08.440 Rick? 0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:09.120 What's going on? 0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:14.560 Not much? But I'm not from Cleaves? 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.200 Okay, duly noted. I'll put that on the record. Dave 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:20.000 put that on the official record. Rick is not from Cleaves. 0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:21.400 But are you on insulin? 0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:22.680 Yes? 0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:25.080 Sir, all right, so we're one for two. That'll get 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:27.760 you in the Hall of Fame. What's your how how 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:30.119 much is it costume? Is it the point where you 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:30.760 can't afford it? 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:35.360 H No, I'm actually pretty lucky. I got a good 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:41.560 retirement ood, but it cost me thirty five dollars a 0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:47.760 month and that went down about three or four years ago. 0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:56.040 Gotcha under Biden. Now, last year, my needles that I 0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:58.920 need to use to get the insulin out of the 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:06.200 pens rocketed. They went from being free for twenty years. 0:29:06.640 --> 0:29:09.640 As soon as I'd order insulin, I'd get the box 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:14.400 of pens, right, and I went last year and they 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:19.280 for one hundred pitner needles. I'm sorry for under needles. 0:29:19.320 --> 0:29:23.360 It was costing me, are gonna cost me eighty dollars 0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:27.840 until I complained, and then they quickly brought it down. 0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:29.320 No h. 0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:37.600 Card like h R X card. They just brought it 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:39.160 down to like seven dollars. 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:44.680 And now and now it's almost like it's almost like damn, 0:29:44.720 --> 0:29:46.560 you know, damn close to one thousand dollars just for 0:29:46.600 --> 0:29:47.800 the just for the syringes. 0:29:49.400 --> 0:29:50.360 Yeah, exactly. 0:29:51.280 --> 0:29:53.480 It's it's more expense like the it's like the printer 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:54.640 and turner cartridge scheme. 0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:59.360 Yeah, that that has since come down. I just I 0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:03.640 just got needles probably a month ago, and they're like 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:08.640 ten bucks. But like I say, uh, I used to 0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:11.280 get them for free as soon as I order the insulent, 0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:15.520 that needles would come with it. Yeah, I had no charge. 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:21.400 And also on my oral uh By beds medicine, and 0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:25.320 it actually went up too, so the insulin came down 0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:26.840 and everything else. 0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:30.960 But those companies that did do these syringes for they're 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:32.760 not the same ones that may make the drugs, so 0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:34.440 as I can never really go, well, they're just you know, 0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:36.800 they're switching profit one profit for the other. They're taking 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:38.280 a hit here on the insulin, but we'll charge you 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:40.920 more for the syringes, but it's a different company makes host. 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:42.680 That is true. 0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:46.280 I wonder if that's the pharmacy benefit people though, figuring, hey, 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:47.880 we got to make our money up. We'll just gouge 0:30:47.960 --> 0:30:49.880 on the on the on the uh, you know, on 0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:52.320 the supplies to administer the drugs. It could very well 0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:53.920 be rick thanks to the call. That's I mean, that's 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:55.760 something to think about. Okay, we'll cut this up. But 0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:58.080 you know, it's like if they said, hey, you're only 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:00.720 allowed to sell a gun for I don't know, I 0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:02.920 don't know why they would do this, but yeah, five 0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:05.680 hundred dollars, okay, one hundred dollars okay, great, Well, now 0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:09.280 the bullet's gonna cost ten times there because we got 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:11.760 to make up the difference. I guess if if guns 0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:13.520 were indeed covered by your health insurance, I'm not quite 0:31:13.520 --> 0:31:14.880 sure if there are any plans out there that got 0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:16.560 that one. I have to look that one up. I 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:19.720 mean guess probably not, probably not bad bad analogy, but 0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:23.640 you get the idea. You get the idea where we're going. Yeah, 0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:27.880 I mentioned him complaining about, you know, complaining about the 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:29.880 government not doing their job. And of course today the 0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:33.080 Senate has a test vote. I don't know any to 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:35.680 test vote on the partial shutdown. Maybe it's a test 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:37.760 boat to go. You know, we've been in competent for 0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:39.680 so long we forgot how to do this. Well, you 0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:45.280 had all the ads vote for me. Well wait, the 0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:47.240 last guys said vote for me or re eluct me. 0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:50.560 Why you haven't done anything? You guys are off half 0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:52.200 the year and then when you're supposed to be there, 0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:55.600 you're shutting the government down over different causes. On the 0:31:55.680 --> 0:31:58.320 left hand the right side, what are you guys, what 0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:00.680 are we hiring you to do? Exactly? Maybe we got 0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:05.680 to start examining that on a lawsuit. Maybe we Denise 0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:08.120 get together on that one. It's five three, seven, four, nine, 0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:10.720 seven thousand, the big one talk back iHeartRadio app And 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:12.880 that is the problem, of course, is uh, you know, 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:15.719 drug prices are just they're insane for everybody in healthcare 0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:18.120 and that Johnny, I know I talk often about that, 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:20.760 but that is such a core critical issue in my 0:32:20.800 --> 0:32:23.960 opinion because it affects everybody. Like previous caller Rick there 0:32:24.040 --> 0:32:27.920 for not from Cleaves was you know, he's retired, I'm working, 0:32:27.960 --> 0:32:31.040 I got healthcare. Maybe you are on Obamacare or maybe 0:32:31.040 --> 0:32:34.320 you don't have insurance right now. You know, if you 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:37.400 are someone who is part of this gig economy, and 0:32:37.440 --> 0:32:40.560 it just blows me away just how steadfast around the 0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:42.320 way we've always done things and how slow things are 0:32:42.360 --> 0:32:46.760 to change, despite younger people coming into power seemingly more 0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:49.719 and more every year, how much stays the same in 0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:52.520 that regard is that, you know, we have this untapped 0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:55.080 potential in America when it comes to healthcare. And you've 0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:57.040 heard me drawn on and on about this, but a 0:32:57.120 --> 0:33:00.720 great example is the gig economy. You know, so many 0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:02.840 people are working side hustles and the side hustle became 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:05.320 main hustles and the side hustles have side hustles, and 0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:08.600 it's it's it's kind of frightening in a way, how 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:11.320 quickly it's all changed from Hey, I have an employer. 0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:13.520 I got my healthcare too, all right. I can go 0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:15.640 out and door dash, or I can go out and 0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:18.040 whatever it is I'm doing on the side to make 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:20.800 a little extra cash because I need it. Or how 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:23.720 many people cobble together a bunch of those kind of 0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:26.520 things because they have severe ADHD like me and go, hey, 0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:27.800 you know what, I'm just not married to one job. 0:33:27.800 --> 0:33:30.040 I got do a bunch of different things. It'd be 0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:31.479 great if you could take your health care with you. 0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:33.360 It'd be great if you didn't have to rely on 0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:37.560 an employer for that, or you know, a bloated government 0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.840 where I have to have subsidies because it's not affordable. 0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:44.200 The affordable character is anything, but it's extremely expensive. It's 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:46.800 just like you're getting a subsidy. You're getting a coupon 0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:50.320 paid five paid before by the American taxpayer to get 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:54.560 that healthcare doesn't really address the issue. You know, we 0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.520 gave you the medicine, but we have the cure and 0:33:56.560 --> 0:34:00.400 we refuse to use the cure. That's really what's driving 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:02.400 this whole thing. We're going to time out in coming 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:05.880 up next on the show on seven hundred WLW and 0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:08.759 interesting A lighter case here by the way out of 0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:13.880 a Newark, Ohio. And it involves a man who, speaking 0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:17.799 of government intervention, simply wants to enjoy his life and 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:21.200 make his own bourbon. You know there's a law against 0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:24.120 that that he might go to federal prison. I really 0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:26.320 visit the story a few times. I like just keeping 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:28.239 on top of these to revisit these stories like this, 0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:29.759 and I will in just a second of Bob Alt 0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:33.239 from Buckeye Institute in Columbus. But you know, it's on 0:34:33.280 --> 0:34:36.080 the heels of the whole CBD beverage band, Like why 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:37.680 are we doing that? So many people enjoy it, they 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.040 like it. It seems to be a better alternative to 0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:42.000 alcohol for a lot of people. It's the fastest growing 0:34:42.000 --> 0:34:44.880 segment as far as beverages go, and craft beer is 0:34:44.880 --> 0:34:48.640 fading and THHG and fuse beverages are exploding. And yet 0:34:48.640 --> 0:34:51.399 the federal government and the state government don't want any 0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:53.719 part of it because well, it's a vice and we 0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:59.400 can't have that. And no, Ohio, that's problematic. But the 0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:02.000 idea that like, Okay, I can make my own beer. 0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:04.279 I could make my own my grandfather, you grandpa used 0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:08.600 to make dandelion wine. Uh, And as I recall it 0:35:08.640 --> 0:35:10.279 was awful and I didn't live because I was a 0:35:10.320 --> 0:35:12.799 little kid then, but I remember my dad going, it's 0:35:12.840 --> 0:35:16.040 just as awful. It's an acquired taste from the home country, 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:19.279 from Italy, the Paizon making his dandelion wine or whatever 0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:22.040 it was. You can do that. You can't make your 0:35:22.080 --> 0:35:27.440 on Burt, Why why not? It gets back to you 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:29.120 don't big government doing what they do, and that has 0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:31.080 overshadow everything we do. If you just opened it up, 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:33.479 let it roll, I think we'd be much better off. Really, 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:35.160 that is a central theme here on The Scots Loan 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:36.760 Show and the Home of the Red seven hundred WW. 0:35:36.920 --> 0:35:38.839 Since then you want to be Americ? 0:35:40.520 --> 0:35:43.919 Good morning, Scott Floon Show on seven hundred wallswts question, 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:47.600 will you be willing to go to prison for your hobby? 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:50.560 Guy's name is James Reem, and mister Reem lives in Newark, Ohio, 0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:53.160 dress up the road from us and he wants to 0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:56.800 distill small qualities of alcohol. He likes bourbon, he likes rye, 0:35:57.040 --> 0:36:02.479 he likes whiskey, and uh yes, fascination with brewing. Owns 0:36:02.480 --> 0:36:04.279 a Burrow Mini Broad micro burw as a matter of fact, 0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:06.600 and I wants to make some alcohol own home for 0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:10.040 his personal consumption. If he decides he's going to do that, 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:15.680 he is subject to felony conviction ten thousand dollars in fines. 0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:19.560 We're talking about five years in prison, longer than a 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:22.879 murderer might get simply because he is making his own 0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:25.600 distilling his own alcohol in his own home for his 0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:27.840 own use, not giving it away, certainly, not selling it, 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:31.600 but of his own use. That is a crime in America, 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:35.240 and I think that is a crime overall. Robert Alt 0:36:35.520 --> 0:36:38.759 is President and chief executive officer of the Buckeye Institute 0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:41.920 in Columbus. Let's talk about John Reems case here. He 0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:46.839 lives in Newark, Ohio, retired engineer, I think, and he 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:48.960 owns a micro brewer. And his wife said, hey, you 0:36:49.000 --> 0:36:51.319 know what, here, here you go. Here's a home brewing kid. 0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:53.399 He does that making money. It's great. It's called trek brewing, 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:56.080 by the way, and now wants to get into home distilling. 0:36:56.320 --> 0:36:57.440 Why is that illegal? 0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:01.000 That's a darn good question. And the answer is, there's 0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:03.160 a there is a law on the book. This is 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:06.640 a federal law. This isn't the state law which prohibits 0:37:06.640 --> 0:37:11.040 you from distilling any alcohol. For for consumption in your 0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:13.640 own home, even if you don't sell it, even if 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:16.560 you're just doing it as a hobby. So you can. 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:18.040 You can make beer in your own home. 0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.960 That's perfectly legal. You commit find in your own home. 0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:23.359 I don't necessarily advise it. I don't know if I've 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:25.719 ever had good homemade one, but you can do it. 0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:28.720 But if you make any amount of whiskey, it's a felony. 0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:32.000 And not only you listed off these penalties on the 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:35.960 website for the enforcement agency, they they make clear not 0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:38.200 only can you get fined, not only can you get 0:37:38.239 --> 0:37:41.759 imprisonment imprisonment, but they'll go after your house. They'll go 0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:44.400 after wherever it is that you were engaging in this 0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:48.239 unlawful conduct and potentially try and seize that as well. 0:37:48.560 --> 0:37:53.240 The penalties here are absolutely draconian. But the real issue 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:56.160 here is how is it that the federal government has 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.600 the authority to go ahead and regulate what you do 0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:02.040 in your your own home as a hobby. If they 0:38:02.040 --> 0:38:05.480 can regulate this, there's literally nothing that the federal government 0:38:05.600 --> 0:38:06.360 can't regulate. 0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:08.920 It's a victim of crime. Now, if you sell it 0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:11.400 distributed to get maybe there's something there. But if you 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:15.520 make something, whether it's alcohol, whether it's bread, whether it's 0:38:15.560 --> 0:38:20.319 a pie, then the only person you're gonna harm is 0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:23.279 yourself if you get it wrong. Does this law let's 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.239 go back in history, is this Does this stem from 0:38:25.239 --> 0:38:28.520 prohibition when people were literally poisoning others but with things 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:29.759 like best of gin. 0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:36.279 This actually the law I believe actually predates prohibition. But 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:40.560 you know, if we're concerned about regulating the production of 0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:44.479 alcohol for public safety, you know who's actually really good 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.040 at do it at handling these sorts of regulations are 0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:49.719 the states, and in fact the Constitution of the under 0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:52.920 the twenty first Amendment, the states have you know, special 0:38:53.000 --> 0:38:56.600 authority to regulate in this space. Uh. And if you 0:38:56.640 --> 0:38:59.280 take a look, I mean Ohio regulates in this space. 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:01.840 But I'll Hio actually doesn't have any. 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:03.600 Prohibition on home distilling. 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:06.880 There are some states that do in addition to the 0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:10.080 federal government, but Ohio doesn't. And so there's really just 0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:11.759 no purpose for this law. 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:16.279 You know, maybe there was a time where people get 0:39:16.280 --> 0:39:18.640 sick in poison and maybe that stems from this, but 0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:21.240 now it just reaks it protection. Because we have science, 0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:23.160 you know, you could learn how to do anything really 0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:25.319 in the comfort of your own home, if you're going 0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:27.239 to use it for your own consumption, or if you're 0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:29.600 you know, if you're a neighbor like, hey, I'd like 0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:32.240 to try some of your whiskey. As long as money's 0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:36.080 not changing hands, there's no violation. But if he wanted 0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:37.600 to do this, would he then have to go through 0:39:37.600 --> 0:39:40.359 the process of getting a federal license? And what does 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:40.840 that look like? 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:44.520 So he would have to get a federal license, he's 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:49.120 actually lawfully prohibited under the statute. It is not permissible 0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:52.560 to distill in your own home, and the statue is 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:55.719 written in a very bizarre fashion. If you happen to 0:39:55.719 --> 0:39:58.560 have a large piece of property and potentially had a 0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:01.360 shanty way out in the woods, perhaps that would be lawful. 0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:03.600 But if you're trying to do so where most people 0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:06.279 are going to actually try and engage in this, if 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:08.399 they're doing as a hobby, you know, in your own home, 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:11.799 say in your basement or in your garage, that you 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:13.880 can't get a permit to do that. And if you 0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:18.359 if you engage in distilling without a permit, that will 0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:21.720 rack you up felony felony charges. 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:23.799 I go to this. 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.239 The big question here is, you know you take a look, 0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:29.440 and you would ask the question, how is it that Congress. 0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:30.400 Has the authority to regulate this? 0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:34.600 To begin with, Congress only has limited and enumerated powers 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:37.520 on the Constitution. They can't just regulate anything willy nilly. 0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:41.239 And so the big claim that they make here is 0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:46.560 that they're regulating interstate commerce. But this is a situation 0:40:46.840 --> 0:40:50.000 in which they're regulating something which is neither commerce nor 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:53.560 interstate I mean, literally, what's happening in the confines of 0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:56.600 your own home. If they can regulate this, they could 0:40:56.640 --> 0:41:00.720 regulate bread baking, they could regulate your having a home garden. 0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:04.960 It really doesn't matter how local, how non commercial it is. 0:41:05.360 --> 0:41:08.040 It would be within the ambit of congressional regulation. And 0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:12.640 that's just not what the Constitution says. Yeah, not at all. 0:41:12.840 --> 0:41:16.840 And if you're selling it different stories, there's no commerce 0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:19.719 going on here. So you said interstate commerce, but there's 0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:21.799 no commercial enterprise. Doesn't it fail that? 0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:26.480 Tesk absolutely? And to the extent, and the interesting thing 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:29.120 here is to the extent that there are some court 0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:32.720 decisions that have had more expansive interpretations of what that means. 0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:35.799 Congress still has to be regulating the interstate market. It 0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:39.080 has to be necessary and proper to regulate the non 0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:43.640 commercial market. In this particular case, the home distilling prohibition, 0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:48.080 it's not regulating an interstate market. This really is getting 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:49.719 to non commercial activity. 0:41:50.800 --> 0:41:55.279 Okay. The argument from the government on this one basically 0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:59.280 is it's the reason why this is prohibited. It's uniquely dangerous. 0:41:59.360 --> 0:42:03.000 Unlike home bread baking or vegetable gardening or whatever it 0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:05.879 might be. No, no one's die. People may die if 0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:08.520 you don't do this right. It probably could say the 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:10.440 same thing about beer or wine. I suppose it may 0:42:10.440 --> 0:42:12.719 not taste good and it's why, But someone can get 0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:16.240 sick and die from a poorly made homemade whiskey. However, 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:18.799 I would say, if you grow vegetables and you have 0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:20.520 a surplus of vegetables, a lot of people like to 0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:22.680 can My mom used to do that, make your own 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:25.280 pickles and put up tomatoes and stuff like that as well. 0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:29.960 I'm sure it's very rare. But what about food born botulism? 0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:32.960 What about food borne illnesses from poor canning techniques? If 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:35.600 I gave my neighbor a can of I don't know, 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:37.919 pickled beets or something like that, and it turns out 0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:39.879 that I didn't do it right, they got sick and died, 0:42:40.680 --> 0:42:42.600 how much? How is that any more dangerous than we're 0:42:42.600 --> 0:42:43.239 talking about here. 0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:48.120 Well, and here's the other thing. Ultimately, that doesn't give 0:42:48.160 --> 0:42:51.120 the federal government anymore authority. The fact that they may 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:54.320 come up with, you know, and they really haven't pressed 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:57.439 too hard on the health rational But even if they do, 0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:02.640 there isn't a general protection health clause in the US Constitution. 0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:08.200 They're protecting health and welfare. That is traditionally a set 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:12.000 of powers which belongs to the states. And so if 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:14.640 we're concerned about that, the states have the ability, they 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:17.880 have the authority, and they do regulate actively in that space. 0:43:18.280 --> 0:43:20.400 And so if that's our concern, there are other governmental 0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:23.160 eneities that can do that. The fact that the federal 0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:26.839 government might be able to point to some justification that 0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:29.239 doesn't create a fount of new power for them. 0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:33.440 He is a Robert Oll President CEO of the Buckeye Institute. 0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:36.920 Interesting story about your hobbies. Guy named James Reem and 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:41.640 New York, New not New York, Newark, Ohio. He wants 0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:44.600 to sell small quantities alcohols on home, make his own whiskey, 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:48.080 basically for his own personal consumption, not for distribution, not 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:51.080 for given away just because he's into it. That's his hobby. 0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:53.520 If he does that, though, he's looking at five years 0:43:53.520 --> 0:43:56.239 in prison. He's looking at a felony conviction and up 0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:58.680 to ten thousand dollars in fines just for creating alcohol 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:01.160 for his own use. We allow home brewing with a 0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:02.960 home wine making and a whole bunch of other things 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.640 you can do in your house. Why is alcohol so 0:44:05.840 --> 0:44:09.200 dangerous that you need a federal exxemption and a license 0:44:09.239 --> 0:44:11.760 in order to do it? That is the argument before 0:44:11.800 --> 0:44:15.120 the court, and the Buckeye Institute is leaning into that 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:17.359 as a friend of the Court and a friend of 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:20.400 mister Reem, and he's on the show this morning to 0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:23.760 discuss here on seven hundred WLW. You know you mentioned 0:44:23.760 --> 0:44:27.400 earlier about Article one and the authority to criminalize home distilling. 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:30.160 If you go back to prohibition, the federal government needed 0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:34.560 the eighteenth Amendment to ban alcohol production and consumption. Does 0:44:34.680 --> 0:44:38.640 that show that Congress lacks the authority to criminalize home distilling? 0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:45.640 I think this goes to, yes, the limitations on government power, 0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:49.360 the fact that you couldn't just simply have Congress go 0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:52.319 ahead and restrict it across the board, you needed a 0:44:52.360 --> 0:44:57.640 constitutional amendment to actually get to a flat prohibition broadly 0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:01.839 on this if you take a look in this particular case. 0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:04.160 I mean, the other argument they meant that they make 0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:06.640 in this case is that it's somehow necessary to the 0:45:06.719 --> 0:45:11.080 taxing power. But it's it's interesting in this case, producing 0:45:11.200 --> 0:45:15.319 alcohol is potentially subject to an excise tax, but the 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:19.400 prohibition actually prevents the federal government from collecting any tax. 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:22.560 As we've said in this case. Uh, and we actually 0:45:22.840 --> 0:45:25.160 not just a friend of the court, we directly represent 0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:30.040 mister Reim in this particular case. Mister Reim would be 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:33.600 willing to pay a tax on producing the alcohol, uh, 0:45:33.680 --> 0:45:36.840 if they would just let him actually produce the alcohol 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:41.239 for his own consumption. So the interly, the oddly, the 0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:44.440 federal government is preventing itself from getting the tax revenue. 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:48.400 I mean, what would cost for a like I'd imagine 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:50.200 it's a lot of mind. It's like a federal firearms 0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:52.759 later to distribute firearms or something like that. It's it's 0:45:52.960 --> 0:45:58.040 exceptionally expensive to do that. Yeah, I I I look 0:45:58.080 --> 0:45:59.600 at this and it's like the same thing. And this 0:45:59.640 --> 0:46:01.640 guy's willing to do it to pay the tax, and 0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:04.879 they still won't let them. There's no, there's no, that's unreasonable. 0:46:04.920 --> 0:46:06.560 I guess that's a great exist I think that's a 0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:08.319 helpful illustration for your cake Stone. 0:46:08.360 --> 0:46:08.400 You. 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:12.880 Oh absolutely, uh. Well, and you know, we we just 0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:16.160 had oral arguments down there in Cincinnati last week before 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:18.680 the Sixth Circuit Quarter Appeals and I'll tell you it 0:46:18.719 --> 0:46:21.440 was I felt like it was it was a bad 0:46:21.560 --> 0:46:25.520 day to be the federal government's attorney. The the the 0:46:25.520 --> 0:46:28.640 the government actually had tried to just argue a very 0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.920 narrow set of issues in the briefs. The court asked 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:36.720 the government to be ready to discuss the constitutional arguments 0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:42.120 beyond the narrow standing arguments. Uh, and the government essentially 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:45.680 refused to do so, so the the court. The court 0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:48.839 was none too please. There was some test the exchanges, 0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:53.120 and the court actually went ahead and sent an additional 0:46:53.239 --> 0:46:57.880 order to the government to provide additional briefing responding to 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:01.760 the Back Eye Institute and mister Eam's constitutional clients. 0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:04.480 I'm not an attorney. I'm a simple layperson with a 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:06.680 simple mind. But I would read that is they don't 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:08.719 even have an argument as to why this is the law. 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:09.960 That's what it sounds like. 0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:13.520 Well, you know, we'll we'll, we'll, we'll see what We'll 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:16.480 see what they come up with. But suffice it to 0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:20.439 say it was, it was. It was a better day 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.400 to be representing mister Reeve. I'll leave it at that. 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:26.399 Well, I guess the question would be is if their 0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:28.680 job is to enforce the law and fight for the 0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:30.480 law in this case and they can't even come with 0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:32.560 a reason why making your own alcohol for your own 0:47:32.600 --> 0:47:36.520 consumption and your home is illegal, is that indicator that 0:47:36.560 --> 0:47:37.799 the state should just give up? 0:47:39.560 --> 0:47:39.799 Well? 0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:43.399 Yeah, again, as someone who's arguing on behalf of mister Reem, 0:47:43.600 --> 0:47:47.719 I will say, I don't think that the government should 0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:49.960 be regulating in this space. I don't think they've been 0:47:49.960 --> 0:47:53.920 able to articulate a good reason. You've actually articulated stronger 0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:56.560 reasons for why it is that they might be able 0:47:56.600 --> 0:48:00.560 to regulate in this space I think than the government has. 0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:03.160 That's frightening. Either I'm in the wrong place or the 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:07.279 government's really stupid. Anyway, Bob altis here, President, Robert Hall, president, 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:10.560 chief executive for the Buckeye Institute. So what's next here? 0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:13.120 Before the sixth Circuit? It sounds to me like and 0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:14.759 you never can read the tea leaves when it comes 0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:16.920 to a court and a judge obviously, or judges obviously, 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:19.200 but it sounds like they're they're going to side with you. 0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:21.320 What happens if that's the case, and moving forward? 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:26.919 Well, right now, the government actually has a brief due 0:48:27.040 --> 0:48:32.240 next month. The court has given us a very short 0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:35.960 one week time to respond to that brief. If the 0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.160 Sixth Circuit were to rule in our favor, as we 0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:44.200 hope that it does, presumably at that point the government 0:48:44.320 --> 0:48:46.759 might appeal the case to the US Supreme Court. So 0:48:46.800 --> 0:48:50.040 we will see. But I have a feeling that whoever 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:53.280 loses this case, it's it's likely to keep on going 0:48:53.719 --> 0:48:55.719 up through the courts, and the next stop would be 0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:56.480 the Supreme Court. 0:48:56.840 --> 0:48:59.400 You recall, there's an argument, in all your years as 0:48:59.400 --> 0:49:02.239 an attorney and studying the law, Robert, that there's been 0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:05.080 an instance where the government has no solid reason as 0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:07.480 to watch something is banned or is the law, and 0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:10.120 yet they continue to fight for keeping the status quoe. 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:12.120 Why is that if they represent the people and it's 0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:14.520 in the people's best interest, Going, yeah, I mean, maybe 0:49:14.560 --> 0:49:16.520 there's a time in America where we needed that, but 0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:19.000 clearly that time has passed, especially when you look at 0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:23.759 the deregulation of things like marijuana for example, and guess what, 0:49:23.880 --> 0:49:25.759 you know, gay marriage, whatever it might be. You know, 0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:28.360 the earth is still spinning and we're just fine despite 0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:30.760 all of these horrible things going to destroy the fabric 0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:34.200 of our country and our makeup, and yet we continue 0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:38.399 to march on forward. Alcohol home distilling of alcohol seems 0:49:38.440 --> 0:49:41.399 to fit into that category as well. So if they 0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:43.080 represent the people and they are fighting for the people, 0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:46.720 because that's the state the people versus in this particular case, 0:49:47.239 --> 0:49:48.480 why they continue to fight. 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:52.440 For this, you know, that is an excellent question, and 0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:56.959 it's one that you know, at times, I do think 0:49:57.040 --> 0:49:58.799 sometimes the government just you know. 0:49:58.800 --> 0:49:59.840 There there is this. 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:05.880 There is a practice within the Justice Department to defend 0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:08.480 any statute that's on the book so long as there's 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:14.840 any conceivable legal justification for doing so, you know, and 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:18.279 and I this is this is the policy, regardless of 0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:21.520 who the administration is. But this is one of those 0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:23.680 cases of that I think really makes you scratch your 0:50:23.719 --> 0:50:27.360 head as to why is it that we're spending government 0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:30.839 resources to defend a statute that really doesn't serve any 0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:34.040 good purpose and for which the government really, you know, 0:50:34.200 --> 0:50:37.160 lacks the authority to have regulated here to begin with. 0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:40.640 If you start distributing this stuff and selling it, we 0:50:40.719 --> 0:50:42.680 know that, you know there will be federal agents. It'll 0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:43.680 be breathing down and re acting. 0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:47.239 You're facing rightly, so stiff finds penalties, jail time if 0:50:47.239 --> 0:50:50.200 you're selling and distributing your alcohol. We have a law 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:52.360 in Ohio that says I can grow up to twelve 0:50:52.400 --> 0:50:54.759 pot plants and do with it what I believe. And 0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:58.840 yet somehow home distilling is is something worth fighting for. 0:50:58.920 --> 0:51:02.040 It makes this argument makes no sense whatsoever, which tells 0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:04.600 me this argument will continue to go on for years 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:04.959 to come. 0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:11.080 Unfortunately, sometimes it seems like the things that are the 0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:13.960 most common sensical those are the things that are the 0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:17.240 hardest to actually succeed on in government. 0:51:17.320 --> 0:51:20.040 This is what we're fighting for. Robert All, President CEO 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:23.960 of the Buckeye Institute, representing James reim out of Newark, Ohio. 0:51:24.000 --> 0:51:26.800 And I'm definitely on team Alt and Tim Reen. Thanks 0:51:26.800 --> 0:51:29.840 again for the time, Robert, thanks for having me the 0:51:29.920 --> 0:51:32.960 latest on the Nancy Guthrie disappearance. I found a clue yesterday. 0:51:32.960 --> 0:51:35.200 I will say how much closer they are to maybe 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:37.919 catching the caps in the subject or the subjects. I guess, 0:51:37.920 --> 0:51:40.560 as the case may be, and your full forecast just ahead. 0:51:40.560 --> 0:51:47.560 Scott Sloan returns after noon seven hundred WLW Sloany, seven 0:51:47.640 --> 0:51:50.319 hundred wl W Cotton throw it back half the week. 0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:54.760 We're good, were good, were good, and in studio as usual, 0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:59.360 Shavor Cremani's here are a resident physician and health and 0:51:59.400 --> 0:52:02.239 fitness and food expert at dine Wall. Doc Sanjay, good morning, 0:52:02.280 --> 0:52:04.080 how are you brother? I'm doing well? Slowey, how are you? 0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:07.080 I'm doing well. Valentine's Day? You have a fiance? What 0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:08.359 are you doing? What's the deal? 0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:10.600 We're actually going to keep it low key, so we're 0:52:10.640 --> 0:52:13.400 actually having some people over close friends and we're just 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:15.600 gonna have a dinner at home and all the mess 0:52:15.640 --> 0:52:18.759 of restaurants, but uh, it's the mess just being because 0:52:18.760 --> 0:52:21.200 it's hard to get a reservation, so just keep it 0:52:21.320 --> 0:52:21.640 at home. 0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:24.640 Are you a chocolate dip strawberry gar or not? 0:52:25.400 --> 0:52:28.200 I do like them, yes, just on those days though. 0:52:28.239 --> 0:52:30.040 And yeah, Matt and Parrett with a champagne. 0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:32.600 Okay, got you? Because Dorothy Lane market up and Mason 0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:35.800 dropped off. I'm not a big strawberry chocolate kindic. I 0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:38.520 like strawberries like chocolate for some reason. It's not my jam. 0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:41.839 But I watched women and some men davorro the They 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:44.120 have chocolate cover strawberries there that are as big as 0:52:44.120 --> 0:52:46.600 an onion. I mean, they're ridiculous. I don't know what 0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:50.399 kind of superhuman chocolate strawberries they brought in. All the food. 0:52:50.800 --> 0:52:52.600 This is the this is the opposite. 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:54.359 Luck. 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:56.520 I think in the back I had their their bougie 0:52:56.520 --> 0:52:58.360 orange juices fresh squeze, the best orang juice you have 0:52:58.440 --> 0:53:01.480 ever in your life. But they dropped off kish this morning. 0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:06.160 Some uncured bacon. Oh no, nitrates are night nitrotes night nitrogens. 0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:09.040 Uh and it's delicious. So I ate all that and stuff. Well, 0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:12.160 thanks for saving me. No, you can smell my burp 0:53:12.360 --> 0:53:12.680 later on. 0:53:13.239 --> 0:53:13.560 Uh no. 0:53:13.680 --> 0:53:15.600 So thanks again to a door lit the Dorothy Lane Market. 0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:17.719 So if you're like sounding, maybe cook at home or something. 0:53:17.719 --> 0:53:19.239 You can go there and get some stuff pre made, 0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:21.600 which is fantastic, or get your ingredients it's all fresh, 0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:23.680 and cook something nice and special. You're giving me good 0:53:23.680 --> 0:53:25.200 ideas because I know you love there. 0:53:25.360 --> 0:53:27.839 You haven't hather pecan pile yet, not yet I'm saving 0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.200 it for a special day, and that might be the Saturday. 0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:32.200 I'll do it. Yeah, I'm telling you it's the best 0:53:32.200 --> 0:53:33.920 in the world, thanks to our friends at the Dorothy 0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:36.200 Lane Market. All right, h we'll talk this morning. I'm 0:53:36.200 --> 0:53:38.160 gonna throw a curveball at as I usually do, because 0:53:38.200 --> 0:53:39.520 I know you like to prep for the segment. But 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:40.960 you're the smartest guy in the room. You should know 0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:44.880 the answer to this stuff. Doctor's physicians, especially eedy doctors 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:47.560 like yourself. Your physicians will go, oh, doctor Google, because 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:49.400 you know my daughter does that. I think I have 0:53:50.200 --> 0:53:52.960 I think I think I've got ebola, Like you don't 0:53:53.000 --> 0:53:56.799 have a bolo. It's what it says. So now it's 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:59.680 a chat. It's chat ebt or clawed or whatever it is. 0:54:00.000 --> 0:54:03.000 Here's an interesting story though. So this woman goes to 0:54:03.440 --> 0:54:05.920 present to the EAD and the nurse says, well, you 0:54:06.000 --> 0:54:09.000 got gout. Okay. She goes home, she's like, I don't 0:54:09.000 --> 0:54:10.520 know if that. She takes a picture of it, puts 0:54:10.520 --> 0:54:12.480 it in an AI client and it comes back and 0:54:12.520 --> 0:54:15.239 it diagnosed her correctly with something far more serious than gout. 0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:18.560 So it was a misdiagnosis. So now you're confirming the 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:20.680 biases of the people before going see I don't trust doctors. 0:54:20.719 --> 0:54:22.560 I'll just do it. I'll just google it, I'll just 0:54:22.560 --> 0:54:24.880 put it into AI. How do you respond to a doctor. 0:54:24.680 --> 0:54:28.120 That it's tough. I mean, you know, we're still human 0:54:28.640 --> 0:54:31.160 as physicians, and we have to be humble about that. 0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:31.520 Now. 0:54:31.920 --> 0:54:34.359 Will our computer is better than we are right now 0:54:34.600 --> 0:54:37.400 in certain things, for sure, but they will also be 0:54:37.440 --> 0:54:39.280 wrong a lot of the times too, and we can't 0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:41.480 have that. They don't have the same interaction that we 0:54:41.600 --> 0:54:44.319 can with a patient. And so I understand it for 0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:50.000 people that are already mistrustful of doctors or healthcare in general. Sure, 0:54:50.040 --> 0:54:52.480 like you might see this one story and say, there 0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:55.760 it is, I can't trust it. But overall, by and large, 0:54:56.400 --> 0:54:58.560 we still encourage you to see someone. 0:54:58.440 --> 0:54:59.080 In real life. 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:02.480 I understand the you know, the appeal one you don't 0:55:02.520 --> 0:55:04.760 have to pay a copay to log on to chat GPT, 0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:08.400 and too, you don't have to divulge anything to another 0:55:08.480 --> 0:55:11.560 human and so yeah, I get it. But at the 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:16.160 same time, be careful of completely relying on AI to 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:17.000 to be your physician. 0:55:17.040 --> 0:55:19.719 If you suspect something I can you could probably do 0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:21.359 it and get a second dig but you still need 0:55:21.400 --> 0:55:25.000 to see someone because you know it's it's certainly imperfect. 0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:27.040 At this point, I wouldn't put all my trust in AI. 0:55:27.239 --> 0:55:29.480 No, and it's it's tough with the whole doctor Google 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:31.960 thing that that took a lot of change for myself 0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:35.239 to you know, increase my humility to say, all right, 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:37.640 there is thing. There are things that a patient may 0:55:37.640 --> 0:55:40.440 bring to me that I know nothing about or that 0:55:40.480 --> 0:55:44.319 I haven't thought about, and it's blending that with my expertise. 0:55:44.400 --> 0:55:46.480 That that's how I've been able to navigate it and 0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:48.839 just say, you know, there's I know a lot of things, 0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:51.360 but I don't know everything, and you know, the Internet 0:55:51.360 --> 0:55:54.080 can help me with certain things. I mean, there's more 0:55:54.120 --> 0:55:56.880 and more to learn every day as a physician, and 0:55:56.960 --> 0:56:00.000 so if I just say I know more than everybody else, 0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:03.439 I'm going to be in trouble. And so just having 0:56:03.440 --> 0:56:05.560 a little bit of humility is the way I navigate it. 0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:08.560 And I encourage patients to read up on their illnesses 0:56:08.640 --> 0:56:11.680 or what they might have its just to eventually have 0:56:11.760 --> 0:56:14.960 a conversation as opposed to me telling them exactly what's 0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:17.000 wrong and them telling me what's wrong. 0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:20.920 Instead, let's talk about it. Yeah, okay, Yeah, it's a 0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:23.520 concern too, because any other element of that too would 0:56:23.520 --> 0:56:25.480 be I would I'd run from a place where I 0:56:25.520 --> 0:56:27.120 went to and go, yeah, I don't know what this is, 0:56:27.160 --> 0:56:29.200 and you look at it and go, holy crap, I 0:56:29.280 --> 0:56:32.200 gotta google that. I like, I'm probably gonna go see 0:56:32.200 --> 0:56:35.200 another doctor and I get to get a picture of 0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:35.920 me with this hold on. 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:36.400 You know. 0:56:37.440 --> 0:56:40.000 I think that's going to evolve too, I think, you know, 0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:43.120 I remember fifteen years ago, I had a patient who 0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:44.920 had a sore throat and the light was off in 0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:47.120 the room or the you know, the tomoscope, so I 0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:49.120 couldn't look in their throat, and I took out my 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:50.839 phone and I was like, I'm just going to show 0:56:50.840 --> 0:56:53.880 this flashlight back there. And the patient's like, you're going 0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:56.680 to use your phone to look at my throat. I'm like, yeah, 0:56:56.680 --> 0:56:59.719 it's got a flashlight, and like today, that's how I 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:01.120 do it most of the time, because that light is 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:02.880 more powerful than anything on the wall, and a patient 0:57:02.880 --> 0:57:05.719 doesn't blink twice, you know. And so I think the 0:57:05.760 --> 0:57:08.759 same thing's going to happen with patients understanding that, like 0:57:08.840 --> 0:57:11.240 we're we still have to fill in some blanks, especially 0:57:11.239 --> 0:57:13.920 as an emergency position where I have to I'm expected 0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:16.560 to understand and diagnose everything. 0:57:17.040 --> 0:57:18.040 It's hard to do alone. 0:57:18.200 --> 0:57:20.480 Yeah, And the more that I can lean into my 0:57:20.520 --> 0:57:22.760 own humility and the patient can understand it, the better 0:57:22.800 --> 0:57:23.080 I think. 0:57:23.120 --> 0:57:24.760 For truth, I don't know everything. I think that's good, 0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:27.200 all right. I want to pivot to this thing because 0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:29.160 I've seen it around before, and I don't know how 0:57:29.200 --> 0:57:31.080 many people are doing this or not, but the cold 0:57:31.120 --> 0:57:34.680 plunges in cryo thing right now, where people are freezing, 0:57:34.680 --> 0:57:37.680 the freezing themselves. It's like the hot cold new trend, 0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:40.320 if you will. And I've done it before. I've done 0:57:40.320 --> 0:57:42.680 the ice bath before after you know when when they 0:57:42.720 --> 0:57:45.200 used to do more physical workouts and stuff like that, 0:57:45.320 --> 0:57:49.240 and after that first five to ten seconds as a man, 0:57:51.680 --> 0:57:53.760 it's very you don't look forward to it, but after 0:57:53.840 --> 0:57:56.440 five ten seconds it does have therapeutic effects. I know 0:57:56.440 --> 0:57:58.320 this is a very small segment of the population that 0:57:58.320 --> 0:58:00.760 it's even interested in doing this, but it's one of 0:58:00.800 --> 0:58:02.560 those new grottes of people go, well, it's an ice bath. 0:58:02.600 --> 0:58:04.840 I mean, you know, you could get a tub or 0:58:04.920 --> 0:58:06.880 you get something on Amazon for like fifty bucks where 0:58:06.880 --> 0:58:08.520 you fill it with ice water and you jump in it, 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:10.760 and I've done them after like a boxing workout before, 0:58:10.760 --> 0:58:13.400 and it feels really really good. But it's not for 0:58:13.440 --> 0:58:15.680 everybody for sure. Why Why is this thing taken off now? 0:58:15.680 --> 0:58:18.760 And it's it also claims to heal and cure a 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:21.040 lot of things, a lot of things outside of muscle 0:58:21.080 --> 0:58:21.360 sort of. 0:58:21.480 --> 0:58:23.600 Yeah, and then you said the magic word. There is 0:58:23.640 --> 0:58:27.040 claims and there is not a ton of evidence on 0:58:27.080 --> 0:58:29.520 this stuff. Now I'm not saying it's not beneficial, but 0:58:29.640 --> 0:58:32.920 at the same time, there's there's mixed evidence and there's evidence, 0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:35.240 but it doesn't show a huge benefit in a lot 0:58:35.280 --> 0:58:38.040 of cases. So, yeah, you've nailed it as far as 0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:40.720 what it is. You know, this is submerging yourself or 0:58:40.840 --> 0:58:45.680 cold water immersion, so submerging your body in colder water. 0:58:46.400 --> 0:58:48.560 You know, some people go to extremes. If you've seen 0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:51.160 a lot of influencers, you know, it's just all ice 0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:53.000 in there and then they just submerge themselves. 0:58:53.080 --> 0:58:55.320 The Swedes, yeah exactly. 0:58:55.320 --> 0:58:57.000 But they're doing something right up there because they're like 0:58:57.000 --> 0:59:01.040 the happiest nations out there. You know that the happiest 0:59:01.120 --> 0:59:03.240 or the Scandinavians, and that's where it's cold and dark 0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:04.920 all the time, although. 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:06.720 I think it's the threat of if you don't you 0:59:06.720 --> 0:59:09.320 don't quit be depressing, I'm gonna throw an ice water. Yeah, exactly, 0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:10.040 they forced it. 0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:12.200 It's not really happy to assign you you will be happy, 0:59:12.280 --> 0:59:13.160 whether you like it or not. 0:59:13.200 --> 0:59:15.960 It's all in act. They're visible. They're cutting themselves and 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:17.240 drinking themselves silly. 0:59:17.520 --> 0:59:20.600 Yeah, so the you know, the the optimal temperature for 0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:22.840 a bath is fifty to fifty nine degrees, So we're 0:59:22.880 --> 0:59:26.520 not talking thirty two degrees, not forties. It's fifty to 0:59:26.560 --> 0:59:29.200 fifty nine, so kind of pretty cold, but not to 0:59:29.280 --> 0:59:31.120 a point where you're like you think you're gonna die. 0:59:31.560 --> 0:59:33.320 There's certainly not where you want to get to. But 0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:35.720 there are benefits and you've mentioned them already, which is 0:59:35.760 --> 0:59:39.080 the physical ones. You know, your body kind of after 0:59:39.400 --> 0:59:43.280 a workout of some sort and just recovery, and it's 0:59:43.320 --> 0:59:47.080 not to help due to decrease inflammation, but also you know, 0:59:47.160 --> 0:59:49.320 kind of numbing your body a little bit by making 0:59:49.360 --> 0:59:52.360 it cool. That being said, you don't really want to 0:59:52.400 --> 0:59:53.880 do this for more than ten minutes at a time 0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:56.880 because that's when that's when the second round of dangers come. 0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.640 Because there are dangers in the early phase of a 0:59:59.680 --> 1:00:01.280 cold lunge and then later on too. 1:00:01.800 --> 1:00:03.920 Hypothermia is right, Yeah. 1:00:03.680 --> 1:00:06.880 The hypothermy of the frost bite, more circulation, the whole 1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:10.720 bit that can happen with either you know, really cold 1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:14.360 temperatures are really prolonged times underneath and again it could 1:00:14.400 --> 1:00:16.120 be more than just ten minutes that can actually do 1:00:16.160 --> 1:00:16.640 some damage. 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:18.640 Okay, so on the cold thing, but the other side, 1:00:18.680 --> 1:00:20.240 the hot So how come you can sit in a 1:00:20.320 --> 1:00:22.520 hot tub for like two hours drinking. 1:00:22.440 --> 1:00:24.360 Yeah, so hot, you know, it's not going to burn 1:00:24.360 --> 1:00:27.919 your skin necessarily unless you've done something whatever degrees. Yeah, 1:00:28.000 --> 1:00:30.360 and and what that will do? You know, the main 1:00:30.480 --> 1:00:33.680 risks at hotter temperatures or you know, all your blood 1:00:33.720 --> 1:00:35.040 is going to your skin, so it's not going to 1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:37.120 your head, and then you can feel lightheaded and pass 1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:39.960 out right, and you could also become dehydrated because you're 1:00:39.960 --> 1:00:42.640 losing a lot of extra sweat that way. So those 1:00:42.640 --> 1:00:44.720 are the two Those are the main risks of hot 1:00:44.760 --> 1:00:47.640 but it's not as dangerous as cold. And so what 1:00:47.720 --> 1:00:50.480 happens with cold You initially get in you've you've referred 1:00:50.520 --> 1:00:53.600 to it men and women alike. On the initial hit, 1:00:54.240 --> 1:00:57.160 which is a burst and heart rate and blood pressure, 1:00:57.200 --> 1:00:59.360 so both of those will go up because of the 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:01.560 stress to the your body's like what is going on 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:04.080 and it freaks out and your heart rate and blood 1:01:04.080 --> 1:01:07.280 pressure go up, which aren't necessarily bad things, but they 1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:10.800 can be bad things for patients with heart disease, any 1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:14.360 any type of heart disease, high blood pressure, history of stroke, 1:01:14.840 --> 1:01:17.160 a lot of things that can kind of go haywire 1:01:17.240 --> 1:01:19.760 in the very first few seconds of doing a cold plunge. 1:01:19.800 --> 1:01:22.640 Okay, what are the therapeutic benefits of that cold bath 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:26.320 or cold plunges that were in that? I mean, is 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:29.800 it more of a placebo effect? It does it? What 1:01:29.840 --> 1:01:31.960 does it do to your muscles? I guess to alleviate 1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:33.960 the pain or the joint pain, whatever you have. Is 1:01:33.960 --> 1:01:36.200 it just throwing your mind off, going hey, now it's cold, 1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:37.520 you got to worry about this as opposed to the 1:01:37.560 --> 1:01:39.600 chronic pain. There's probably something to that. 1:01:40.560 --> 1:01:44.439 It's also yeah, it's physical decreased inflammation, and so they've 1:01:44.440 --> 1:01:47.120 done some research with markers, but it's hard to reproduce 1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:50.080 a lot of the studies, so it's not very conclusive 1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:53.280 as far as the evidence, But overall it looks to 1:01:53.280 --> 1:01:56.160 be helpful. That being said, a lot of a lot 1:01:56.200 --> 1:01:58.400 of the things, a lot of the benefits are to 1:01:58.400 --> 1:02:01.760 do with mental resilience and how it's affecting your mind. So, 1:02:02.200 --> 1:02:04.880 you know, starting off the day with a cold plunge, 1:02:04.920 --> 1:02:07.200 or what I prefer to do, which is the easy, 1:02:07.240 --> 1:02:10.480 accessible and cheap thing, is have my warm shower and 1:02:10.520 --> 1:02:13.480 then turn the dial to complete cold. For the final 1:02:13.640 --> 1:02:17.160 thirty to sixty seconds, I'll just take five deep breaths 1:02:17.160 --> 1:02:19.640 in and out, so ten total breaths under the cold, 1:02:19.800 --> 1:02:22.120 and then it just starts my day. And what they've 1:02:22.160 --> 1:02:25.080 actually have found is that that will actually increase your 1:02:25.120 --> 1:02:28.960 mental clarity. It helps you overall deal with things through 1:02:29.000 --> 1:02:30.680 the rest of the day, and it actually gives you 1:02:30.840 --> 1:02:34.280 a boost. Your neurotransmitters go up, your brain functions a 1:02:34.320 --> 1:02:36.200 little bit better, and it really wakes you up. 1:02:36.400 --> 1:02:38.120 Some people are doing the cryo therapy, which is the 1:02:38.120 --> 1:02:39.880 extreme of that too, that's really really. 1:02:39.640 --> 1:02:42.880 Cold, really really cold, and that's where you know, is 1:02:43.680 --> 1:02:44.920 the juice worth the squeeze? 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:46.880 And then what are the risks of that too? Cost 1:02:46.960 --> 1:02:48.200 for that matter, it's not cheap. 1:02:48.080 --> 1:02:50.560 No, it's not cheap. Every you know, every session does 1:02:50.600 --> 1:02:53.440 cost money. There are some benefits there, but again the 1:02:53.840 --> 1:02:56.880 shower version is cheap and free, and that's why I 1:02:56.920 --> 1:02:59.080 prefer to do it. And it's you know, you don't 1:02:59.080 --> 1:03:00.360 get as cold temperature, just. 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:02.000 Take a cold shower, is what you're saying. It's the 1:03:02.200 --> 1:03:03.320 same thing essentially. 1:03:03.320 --> 1:03:05.840 So there was a study done a couple of years 1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:10.240 ago in the Netherlands where they took people and they said, okay, 1:03:10.320 --> 1:03:12.880 we're gonna have a control group that's take a normal shower, 1:03:12.960 --> 1:03:16.880 and then people take finish off their warm shower with 1:03:17.040 --> 1:03:20.200 a cold shower thirty seconds, sixty seconds, ninety seconds, so 1:03:20.240 --> 1:03:22.400 not a ten of time under the cold after their 1:03:22.440 --> 1:03:25.040 initial warm shower. And what they found was that there 1:03:25.040 --> 1:03:27.920 were less sick days taken for the people that did 1:03:27.920 --> 1:03:29.960 a cold shower. So if you did a cold shower 1:03:30.000 --> 1:03:33.800 after your hot one, you reported less, you called into 1:03:34.040 --> 1:03:39.320 work sick less often, which makes you think, what, oh, 1:03:39.400 --> 1:03:40.560 you're helping the immune. 1:03:40.280 --> 1:03:42.560 System, which is the that's one of the claims right 1:03:42.920 --> 1:03:43.120 to make. 1:03:43.240 --> 1:03:48.520 Ok Yeah, However, everyone reported the same incidents of being sick, 1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:51.680 and so every whether you took a warm shower only 1:03:51.800 --> 1:03:55.160 or followed up with cold, you got sick just as often. However, 1:03:55.200 --> 1:03:59.040 you called into work less often if you were doing 1:03:59.040 --> 1:04:02.920 the cold plunge call off of work. So the question is, 1:04:02.920 --> 1:04:05.000 well why, and then what they think is. 1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:07.000 Go, yeah, I want to hear your answer. 1:04:07.160 --> 1:04:10.840 So they're thinking it builds up your mental resilience. Okay, 1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:13.800 I'm sick. I can deal with this. And that's what 1:04:13.840 --> 1:04:15.600 I kind of like about the cold thing. I start 1:04:15.640 --> 1:04:17.560 off the day being like, man, I just I just 1:04:17.600 --> 1:04:20.840 took that on. I was cold, and I stuck with 1:04:20.880 --> 1:04:23.000 it for one extra breath, and I thought I could. 1:04:23.560 --> 1:04:25.640 I'm a I'm a beast. I can start the day. 1:04:25.720 --> 1:04:28.720 I can take on anything. And and they think that's 1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:31.920 part of it. Yeah, you have fortitude, like, okay, it's 1:04:32.040 --> 1:04:33.800 it's the sniffles. Of course, I'm going to be safe 1:04:33.840 --> 1:04:36.400 around my colleagues and everything. And you wash my hands. 1:04:36.400 --> 1:04:39.920 But I think I can work today. I got it 1:04:39.960 --> 1:04:40.240 at all. 1:04:40.600 --> 1:04:42.880 Yeah, you spend a long more time, the more time 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:44.959 in the shower, less exposure to germs and other people. 1:04:45.040 --> 1:04:47.760 Yet you just wash it in the shower all day. 1:04:47.800 --> 1:04:48.760 You're not going to get sick. 1:04:49.040 --> 1:04:50.920 Well, why don't you bring your shower with you? I 1:04:50.960 --> 1:04:53.320 expect you to expected to see a. 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:57.320 Tug and just carrying around that shower cloud following me 1:04:57.360 --> 1:05:01.439 around side. Shave A Kramatis series are Resident Physician and 1:05:01.560 --> 1:05:04.800 also Health and Fitness. We're talking about the new trend 1:05:04.800 --> 1:05:07.440 and well maybe not new trend, but the cold bath thing, 1:05:07.520 --> 1:05:10.360 and and also cryo therapy, and it claims it to 1:05:10.400 --> 1:05:12.919 boosts your immune system, which doesn't look like it's true. Also, 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:15.240 weight loss is one too. I mean, it's kind of 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:18.280 like drinking cold cold water, drinking ice water stimulate your 1:05:18.480 --> 1:05:20.920 your but how much like a couple calories? It can't be. 1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:23.320 There's no prolonged you're pretty close to, right, a couple 1:05:23.360 --> 1:05:23.800 of calories. 1:05:23.880 --> 1:05:27.240 Yeah, So the thought is it activates your brown fat, 1:05:27.840 --> 1:05:30.800 which we all have, and if that brown fat is activated, 1:05:30.840 --> 1:05:34.600 it melts away. So the thought is with prolonged exposure, 1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:36.800 that will burn away more. 1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:37.720 Because it's activated. 1:05:38.080 --> 1:05:40.120 Really, what it amounts to is like one hundred to 1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:44.000 two hundred calories probably, but not a ton. And you know, 1:05:44.040 --> 1:05:46.440 there's other things we could be doing, and in fact, 1:05:46.480 --> 1:05:48.880 like taking a walk that could do the exact same right, 1:05:49.880 --> 1:05:50.640 with less danger. 1:05:51.560 --> 1:05:53.360 Yeah, but you're actually gonna walk as supposed if I 1:05:53.440 --> 1:05:54.400 just take a cold bath. 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:57.920 We love a good hack, you know, and we as 1:05:57.920 --> 1:05:59.840 a society love a good hack, but at the end 1:05:59.840 --> 1:06:00.840 of the day, it's the basics. 1:06:01.120 --> 1:06:03.080 Just take a shower, eat a pizza at the same time. 1:06:03.080 --> 1:06:05.240 But like cancels. Have you ever tried it? Cancels it out? No, 1:06:05.320 --> 1:06:10.640 but they're encouraged have beer shower, but pizza shower. Different story. Also, 1:06:10.680 --> 1:06:13.480 I would imagine the anti aging thing is probably a 1:06:13.520 --> 1:06:17.120 little overdone that people tend to use cold showers. Is 1:06:17.120 --> 1:06:18.840 that more of the fact that like, well, if you're 1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:20.640 doing this in the first place, you're probably living a 1:06:20.640 --> 1:06:21.720 fairly healthy lifestyle. 1:06:21.920 --> 1:06:24.479 Yeah, I mean we talk about confounders all the time. 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:27.040 You know, the people are cold showering are probably doing 1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:29.480 other things to make sure they stay alive. And it's 1:06:29.520 --> 1:06:32.480 just one more thing that being said in the in 1:06:32.520 --> 1:06:38.280 that Norwegians or Netherlands study, the people who did the 1:06:38.280 --> 1:06:40.800 cold plunge or did a cold shower after their warm 1:06:40.840 --> 1:06:45.880 shower and exercise regularly, they had fifty percent less sick 1:06:45.960 --> 1:06:49.360 days called in And so, you know, as opposed to 1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:52.160 just exercise or just cold plunge, this is actually the 1:06:52.200 --> 1:06:54.120 group with the most So the more things you can 1:06:54.160 --> 1:06:57.400 do to stay healthy, uh, the better. And that seems 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.440 like basic stuff but the evidence show what was it 1:07:00.680 --> 1:07:03.480 that being said? Again, you know, if you're not exercising 1:07:03.640 --> 1:07:05.800 this the cold plunge thing. You know, if you're not 1:07:06.000 --> 1:07:08.520 if you're not eating healthy, if you're not sleeping well, 1:07:08.560 --> 1:07:10.640 if you're not reducing your stress, the cold plunge stuff 1:07:10.680 --> 1:07:14.080 is like peanuts. Yeah, you really want to focus still 1:07:14.680 --> 1:07:17.200 on on the core stuff and then this is extra 1:07:17.240 --> 1:07:19.320 stuff if you have the time and ability. But again, 1:07:19.760 --> 1:07:22.280 just adding it to the end of your shower is 1:07:22.360 --> 1:07:23.720 probably the easiest way to do it. 1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:27.520 Yeah, why is it we would go, oh, man, a 1:07:27.600 --> 1:07:29.600 nice hot tup is great, but getting in cold water 1:07:29.680 --> 1:07:31.120 very few people want to do that. What is it 1:07:31.160 --> 1:07:33.560 about the way humans are built that wou'd rather be 1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:35.040 warm and warm water than cold water? 1:07:35.080 --> 1:07:37.520 Well, I think you know the thing is getting into 1:07:37.520 --> 1:07:40.280 cold water. It's a true shock to the system. It's 1:07:40.320 --> 1:07:42.360 a stress to the system where all of a sudden, 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:44.120 again your heart rain and blood pressure go up, your 1:07:44.120 --> 1:07:47.439 flight or flight goes crazy as opposed to warm water, 1:07:47.440 --> 1:07:50.920 which is soothing, relaxing, and that does the same thing 1:07:50.960 --> 1:07:52.800 to your muscles. You know, your muscles tense up in 1:07:52.840 --> 1:07:55.680 the cold, whereas in heat they're just going to relax. 1:07:55.720 --> 1:07:57.920 And your brain's going to relax and everything's going to relax. 1:07:58.080 --> 1:08:01.000 Right, Yeah, it's it's more calming, I guess than tensing. Weder. 1:08:01.040 --> 1:08:03.440 They common intense. We love contents already. I don't know 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:04.880 what we're talking about this. We just suffered for the 1:08:04.920 --> 1:08:07.400 last what month of subzero temperatures. You want to you 1:08:07.440 --> 1:08:09.640 want to cold bath? Just go outside, go start trying 1:08:09.640 --> 1:08:12.200 to take one deep breath, Start to start your car. 1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:15.960 He's a son Jay Shavcremani. He's a physician also our 1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:18.360 health and fitness guru on the Scott Sloan Show at 1:08:18.600 --> 1:08:21.000 Dinewell Dock. We'll talk next Thursday. Appreciate you, thanks so much. 1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:23.840 How about a news update. Let's do that and more 1:08:23.840 --> 1:08:26.000 to follow here afterwards. Scott's Loan Show Home the Red 1:08:26.000 --> 1:08:26.920 seven hundred WTW. 1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:31.920 Since then, all right, here I goes long back, got 1:08:31.960 --> 1:08:33.240 seven hundred WLW. 1:08:33.400 --> 1:08:35.880 We have a record at five credit card debts. 1:08:36.439 --> 1:08:37.960 The average household. 1:08:37.520 --> 1:08:41.080 In Ohio, Kentucky can carry about sixty three one hundred 1:08:41.080 --> 1:08:46.120 dollars per household on average stom So the President proposing 1:08:46.400 --> 1:08:51.520 a ten percent future three camp Now that sounds like good, populous. 1:08:51.240 --> 1:08:55.120 Middle finger fu to banks. But this could actually hurt 1:08:55.120 --> 1:08:57.559 those it intends to help by putting a cap on 1:08:58.160 --> 1:09:01.639 how much credit card companies can check to use their money. 1:09:01.680 --> 1:09:03.320 Kerriy Scheffler is here. She used to be with a 1:09:03.360 --> 1:09:05.519 political in the Hill. She's now a senior policy analyst 1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:08.040 at the Independent Women's Form. Kerry welcome, How are you. 1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:09.800 Here? 1:09:09.960 --> 1:09:11.320 I'm great, Thanks for having me. 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:15.000 Yeah, so it's kind of funny. I mean, the right 1:09:15.280 --> 1:09:17.800 got all worked up about Mamdani in New York City 1:09:17.800 --> 1:09:19.960 with rent price control, that scheme in New York which 1:09:19.960 --> 1:09:22.760 has been tried and broken, because well then you just 1:09:22.800 --> 1:09:25.880 have empty buildings. And we saw what happened in the 1:09:25.880 --> 1:09:28.679 seventies in New York City. If you're called that or 1:09:29.120 --> 1:09:31.400 our student of history of that, you see what happens 1:09:31.400 --> 1:09:34.000 when you try. Our government tries to artificial control prices. 1:09:34.720 --> 1:09:37.160 And I think conservatives are right to look at that 1:09:37.200 --> 1:09:39.400 and go, well, that's a bad and horrible idea. Is 1:09:39.439 --> 1:09:41.880 it hypocritical not to call out the same here, because 1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:44.439 price controls are price control. Isn't it a price control? 1:09:46.240 --> 1:09:50.000 You're right, it is a price control. It's constraining the 1:09:51.000 --> 1:09:55.120 market forces and the market signals, because that's what a 1:09:55.200 --> 1:09:59.599 credit card interest rate is really a signal to the borrower, 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:06.600 signal also to the lender about the credit worthiness or 1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:10.040 the credit history, and all of the components in coming 1:10:10.120 --> 1:10:13.080 up with a credit rate and a credit offer, and 1:10:13.400 --> 1:10:16.840 you're basically distorting that by putting this interest rate up. 1:10:17.240 --> 1:10:20.400 And look like you said, this is a I think 1:10:20.400 --> 1:10:24.639 it has good intentions. I think the desire to help 1:10:24.680 --> 1:10:28.599 people who are struggling financially the good desire. The problem, 1:10:28.840 --> 1:10:31.920 there's going to be a lot of unintended consequences if 1:10:31.960 --> 1:10:35.000 this happens federally, because we've already seen this at the 1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:37.040 state level, because some states have already tried this. 1:10:38.560 --> 1:10:41.280 Yeah, it's nothing new. I would think the biggest one 1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:44.960 would probably be a credit desert occurring. Right, So, if 1:10:45.000 --> 1:10:47.959 you're low to middle income in your first time bower, 1:10:48.400 --> 1:10:50.479 you could wind up losing your credit line entirely, right, 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:52.519 because they don't want to take that risk because they're 1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:55.080 not going to get their money back because they can't 1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:56.160 charge an IRPR. 1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:02.000 You're exactly right. And we saw for example in Illinois 1:11:02.320 --> 1:11:06.120 where they did put an interest rate cap, and what 1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:09.400 ended up happening is that fewer people were able to 1:11:09.439 --> 1:11:12.439 get access to loans and more people who were shifted 1:11:12.479 --> 1:11:16.439 into the dangerous black market. And so if the intention 1:11:16.560 --> 1:11:19.559 is to protect people, it has the unintended consequence of 1:11:19.600 --> 1:11:23.440 actually putting people into more harmful types of lending products. 1:11:23.720 --> 1:11:28.160 So the the and and the thing is it's not 1:11:28.520 --> 1:11:31.439 This isn't just for the poorest families. And I say 1:11:31.439 --> 1:11:34.080 this as someone who was When I was a child, 1:11:34.120 --> 1:11:36.160 we were homeless. My brother was born in a tent. 1:11:36.680 --> 1:11:39.280 My dad used to have to go to pawn shops 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:41.680 in order to get loans. He had to pawn his 1:11:42.120 --> 1:11:45.400 watch or his ring just to feed us. This isn't 1:11:45.439 --> 1:11:49.080 a great situation for poor people, but for anyone who's listening, 1:11:49.320 --> 1:11:52.679 this is also for people who have great credit scores 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:58.519 and strong finances. Because if there's a study for Ohio, 1:11:58.640 --> 1:12:03.000 for example, super primed cardholders, those are people with credit 1:12:03.040 --> 1:12:06.360 scores above seven hundred and eighty, They are also going 1:12:06.400 --> 1:12:13.320 to experience gative consequences. It means higher fees, reduce rewards, 1:12:13.560 --> 1:12:18.160 higher credit standards, lower credit limits, fewer bonus points when 1:12:18.160 --> 1:12:20.680 you're talking about miles and things like that. So this 1:12:20.800 --> 1:12:23.760 affects people across the income spectrum. 1:12:24.320 --> 1:12:26.599 Yeah, if I get Jennifer Garner smiling, at me one 1:12:26.640 --> 1:12:29.200 more time about what's in my wallet and getting these 1:12:29.200 --> 1:12:31.560 great rewards. And I'm traveling and beautiful people around me 1:12:31.600 --> 1:12:33.800 in this lounge where I'm getting steak and lobster, and 1:12:33.800 --> 1:12:36.240 I'm flying these exotic locations, and all I have to 1:12:36.240 --> 1:12:37.720 do is spend more on this card and I'll get 1:12:37.720 --> 1:12:40.599 those points. That's going to largely dry up, isn't it. 1:12:42.120 --> 1:12:46.960 Exactly? And just in general, the ability to open a 1:12:47.040 --> 1:12:51.719 credit card in Ohio alone, there's been an estimate based 1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:56.719 on study that between seventy three and eighty five percent 1:12:56.920 --> 1:13:00.360 of people in Ohio are going to see their credit 1:13:00.360 --> 1:13:05.200 lines reduced. And this is again, this happened already in 1:13:05.240 --> 1:13:10.520 the Illinois and there was a study comparing Illinois to Missouri, 1:13:11.040 --> 1:13:13.160 which did not have a rate cap, and it was 1:13:13.160 --> 1:13:16.920 the perfect natural experiment because their neighbors and I lived 1:13:16.920 --> 1:13:20.200 in Missouri, my family lives in Missouri now, so Missouri 1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:23.320 versus Illinois. What happens in this natural experiment with the 1:13:23.400 --> 1:13:27.960 rate cap in Illinois, Well, it turns out that many 1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:31.880 people said that their financial well being declined after this 1:13:32.640 --> 1:13:35.280 and seventy nine and this is according to a study 1:13:35.280 --> 1:13:38.120 from the Federal Reserve. So this is a government federal 1:13:38.160 --> 1:13:43.400 government study, and seventy nine percent of people in the 1:13:43.439 --> 1:13:46.200 study said that they wanted the option to return to 1:13:46.240 --> 1:13:49.120 their previous lender after this rate caap happened in the 1:13:49.160 --> 1:13:49.919 state of Illinois. 1:13:50.000 --> 1:13:54.160 Yeah. Yeah, she's Carrie Sheffield, and we're talking about Trump's 1:13:54.200 --> 1:13:57.519 proposal to cap aprs for credit cards to ten percent. 1:13:57.560 --> 1:13:59.679 Now that's a popular study. Sounds good, right, It's like, oh, good, 1:13:59.680 --> 1:14:01.799 screw the those guys, they're gouging me. But the problem 1:14:01.880 --> 1:14:03.880 is it's going to ruin credit for a lot of 1:14:03.880 --> 1:14:06.599 the people it's intending to help. And if you're also 1:14:07.560 --> 1:14:09.599 have a good credit score and you use your credit 1:14:09.680 --> 1:14:11.879 card for the points as opposed to carrying a balance, 1:14:12.080 --> 1:14:14.080 you're gonna get hammered that way too, because those points 1:14:14.120 --> 1:14:16.479 are going to kind of go away. So if they 1:14:16.479 --> 1:14:18.439 got to cut it to ten percent, then how do 1:14:18.479 --> 1:14:20.479 they make money? And not that I'm worried about the 1:14:20.479 --> 1:14:22.280 banks not making money. They'll find a way to make 1:14:22.320 --> 1:14:25.360 money carry for sure, But it squeezes both then, So 1:14:25.720 --> 1:14:28.679 who would their core target consumer be? Because you don't 1:14:28.680 --> 1:14:31.000 want the people at the low end, they're going to 1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:33.320 get priced out with interest rates. The people at the 1:14:33.400 --> 1:14:35.840 upper end that are paying their credit card every month 1:14:35.880 --> 1:14:38.840 are basically leeches because they're not making money off of 1:14:38.880 --> 1:14:41.240 us technically, and they got to give us points to 1:14:41.240 --> 1:14:42.200 do that. Who do they want? 1:14:43.960 --> 1:14:46.120 Well, they're going to increase their fees. I mean even 1:14:46.160 --> 1:14:49.599 a lot of people with super prime high credit scores, 1:14:50.720 --> 1:14:53.320 a lot of credit cards they pay annual, they charge 1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:56.599 annual fees for example. You're going to see those fees 1:14:56.720 --> 1:15:00.720 go up. You're going to see the points dropped, you're 1:15:01.000 --> 1:15:05.439 I mean, it's the cost goes somewhere, and uh, it's 1:15:05.560 --> 1:15:09.400 and it's usually a combination of consumers and companies paying 1:15:09.520 --> 1:15:14.040 higher prices as a result of price constraints. So uh, 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:16.320 that's really what it's going to happen. And when we're 1:15:16.320 --> 1:15:19.640 talking about inflation, this is this is one way to 1:15:19.680 --> 1:15:24.679 make everything more expensive rather than here's the thing. When 1:15:24.680 --> 1:15:29.679 you have competition, you can naturally lower uh whatever whatever 1:15:29.720 --> 1:15:33.840 it is, including an interest rate, through more competition. But 1:15:33.920 --> 1:15:36.280 this is going to have less competition in the end 1:15:36.320 --> 1:15:39.200 because there'll be fewer lenders who will be able to 1:15:39.360 --> 1:15:43.680 enter these markets. And here's the other interesting part about it. 1:15:43.720 --> 1:15:48.040 When people mention, you know, a credit card interest rate, 1:15:48.120 --> 1:15:53.639 and it sounds astronomically high. Most people, like you mentioned, 1:15:53.920 --> 1:15:57.559 I mean, a lot of people don't carry balances from 1:15:57.640 --> 1:16:00.840 months to months. And for those who do, a lot 1:16:00.840 --> 1:16:04.920 of people it's only for a short period. And when 1:16:04.960 --> 1:16:08.759 you're talking about such a high interest rate, quite often 1:16:08.840 --> 1:16:11.920 it's actually for a fairly small amount. And so there's 1:16:11.960 --> 1:16:15.400 a thought experiment that the economist Thomas Bold did. He 1:16:15.479 --> 1:16:19.479 gave the example of a hotel room. If you if 1:16:19.479 --> 1:16:22.240 you go to a hotel and it charges you one 1:16:22.320 --> 1:16:25.519 hundred or two hundred three hundred bucks a night, you 1:16:25.640 --> 1:16:28.920 annualize that that's an insane amount. So let's say two 1:16:29.000 --> 1:16:33.040 hundred bucks times three hundred and sixty five days. I mean, 1:16:33.040 --> 1:16:37.680 that's that's just it sounds like you're totally gadging someone, right, 1:16:37.720 --> 1:16:40.080 But this doesn't make sense because you're only using it 1:16:40.160 --> 1:16:44.840 for a few nights. Maybe, So annualize that that's seventy 1:16:44.880 --> 1:16:48.160 three thousand dollars just for using a room. And so 1:16:48.520 --> 1:16:50.400 if you're going to let your hair on fire because 1:16:50.400 --> 1:16:55.360 someone's charging me at seventy seventy three thousand dollars annualized price. 1:16:55.520 --> 1:16:56.240 It's insane. 1:16:56.800 --> 1:16:59.800 And so most people's credit cards, and same thing with 1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:03.000 what they call quote unquote pay day lending. Most of 1:17:03.000 --> 1:17:06.240 this is short term landing, and so it sounds so 1:17:06.360 --> 1:17:08.720 much worse than it actually is when you actually look 1:17:08.760 --> 1:17:12.080 at how people use credit. And so again, study after 1:17:12.160 --> 1:17:16.000 study shows that when you construct a credit market, people's 1:17:16.040 --> 1:17:19.320 financial wellbeing goes down, their choices go down. And there's 1:17:19.360 --> 1:17:21.400 a lot of Hyperboleave that's not based impact. 1:17:21.560 --> 1:17:24.400 Well, Kerrie, if this goes through and they wind up 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:28.120 capping aprs at ten percent, you know you mentioned payday lenders. 1:17:28.160 --> 1:17:29.640 I'm glad you did. I wanted to bring that up 1:17:29.680 --> 1:17:32.479 because back in the day, payday lenders here in Ohio, 1:17:32.520 --> 1:17:34.400 ay where were getting cracked down. It's like, oh my god, 1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:37.400 these are ConA confiscatory and you can't do this to 1:17:37.439 --> 1:17:39.080 the working man, the working men, the whole thing. And 1:17:39.080 --> 1:17:41.320 then they tried to clean things up. But by and large, 1:17:41.320 --> 1:17:44.280 people who are on the lower end of the economic scale, 1:17:44.360 --> 1:17:47.439 right lower middle even you know, middle income people. For example, Hey, 1:17:47.439 --> 1:17:50.120 you know what, I'm living paycheck Most Americans live paid well, 1:17:50.200 --> 1:17:51.920 not most, but a lot of Americans live in paycheck 1:17:51.960 --> 1:17:56.519 to paycheck, especially the younger you are. And so the 1:17:56.760 --> 1:17:58.920 problem is this, It's like, all right, well, I got 1:17:58.920 --> 1:18:01.479 to get to work, transmission goes out of my truck. 1:18:02.240 --> 1:18:05.040 I don't have several thousand dollars laying around. I got 1:18:05.040 --> 1:18:06.880 to go to the payday lender. I can't use a 1:18:06.880 --> 1:18:08.880 credit card, maybe they're maxed out, or maybe the credit 1:18:08.880 --> 1:18:10.400 card option isn't there. I can't go to a bank 1:18:10.439 --> 1:18:12.439 and on a collateral. I don't have a choice here 1:18:12.479 --> 1:18:15.280 to go to a payday lender. So we're back in 1:18:15.280 --> 1:18:17.200 that game again. And if we've cracked down on pay 1:18:17.240 --> 1:18:19.679 day lending, does that mean the rise of loan sharks? 1:18:19.720 --> 1:18:22.439 So maybe my job someday is like I look at 1:18:22.439 --> 1:18:23.640 this and go, you know what, I'm just gonna go 1:18:23.640 --> 1:18:25.320 in the loan shark Business'm gonna put some money out 1:18:25.360 --> 1:18:27.400 in the street, get a couple of head crackers out there, 1:18:27.560 --> 1:18:29.760 and you don't pay, I break your leg. Is it 1:18:29.800 --> 1:18:30.679 going to be that way again? 1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:37.759 That's again, that's what we see people doing. When payday lending, 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:42.120 it's more foral more name it's called installment lending. When 1:18:42.240 --> 1:18:46.200 you go after installment lending, when you go after a 1:18:46.200 --> 1:18:50.439 credit card interest rates through rate caps, Yes, more people 1:18:50.520 --> 1:18:55.160 are forced out into the so called black market, into 1:18:55.160 --> 1:19:01.400 scenarios that are far more exploitative and dangerous versus having 1:19:01.479 --> 1:19:04.880 them in a financial system that is regulated, that is 1:19:04.920 --> 1:19:09.200 designed to protect the consumer. This we've seen this happen, 1:19:09.560 --> 1:19:11.160 and this as an analogy. 1:19:12.000 --> 1:19:12.759 When you look. 1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:16.839 At you know, I for my church, I traveled to Peru. 1:19:17.600 --> 1:19:22.719 There is like an insane amount of transactions that happen 1:19:22.800 --> 1:19:26.759 outside the financial system that is reported to the government. 1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:29.519 And it's because, well, there's a lot of corruption there. 1:19:29.920 --> 1:19:33.400 But here's the thing. We're going to see an increase 1:19:33.400 --> 1:19:36.040 in that here in the US if the federal government 1:19:36.160 --> 1:19:40.320 follows some of these states and in strict credit lending, 1:19:40.560 --> 1:19:43.519 there's going to be even more shifting into the black market, 1:19:43.560 --> 1:19:46.240 which means less tax revenue because these are transactions that 1:19:46.240 --> 1:19:47.599 are going to be happening in the shadows. 1:19:47.680 --> 1:19:50.519 Yep, yep, yeah, exactly, You're going to create a bigger body. 1:19:50.520 --> 1:19:54.839 So anytime you prohibit or you know, artificially doctor something 1:19:55.360 --> 1:19:57.720 in this case it's a it's rate caaps, you're going 1:19:57.720 --> 1:20:00.320 to create a black market for it, which under minds 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:03.439 everything because there's no transparency and it's not secure. It's 1:20:03.479 --> 1:20:06.840 also extremely dangerous as well. So this is the Trump 1:20:07.000 --> 1:20:10.559 proposal to cap interest rates on credit cards at ten 1:20:10.600 --> 1:20:13.439 percent of the annual fee ten percent. That's the worst 1:20:13.479 --> 1:20:15.479 case scenario. The best case is, oh yeah, I know, 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:18.240 people are going to be able to afford to live again. 1:20:18.520 --> 1:20:20.360 You know, that doesn't address the core issue in that 1:20:20.400 --> 1:20:23.080 as affordability. For sure. This kind of plays into it, 1:20:23.120 --> 1:20:27.000 but it treats the user end and the diagnosis and 1:20:27.040 --> 1:20:29.040 not really the cause and the symptoms of this whole thing. 1:20:29.640 --> 1:20:33.040 How many politicians? Where's Congress on this whole thing? Is 1:20:33.080 --> 1:20:35.320 there bipartisan support for it? Or is it pretty much? 1:20:35.600 --> 1:20:37.400 Because it seems like he was when you work with 1:20:38.040 --> 1:20:40.599 Elizabeth Warren, I think Watson wanted to push this. Gavin 1:20:40.640 --> 1:20:42.680 Newsoon wanted to push things like this as well too, 1:20:42.760 --> 1:20:45.960 and they were criticized during the election. And now we're 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:48.639 talking about proposing it. So who's forward in Washington. 1:20:50.560 --> 1:20:54.799 We're definitely Democrats who are supporting this, including Bernie Sanders 1:20:54.960 --> 1:20:58.559 in the Senate, and there are some Senate Republicans who 1:20:58.640 --> 1:20:59.760 are starting. 1:20:59.439 --> 1:21:00.680 To go for this. 1:21:01.479 --> 1:21:05.440 And I think again we we it's good to acknowledge 1:21:05.520 --> 1:21:10.120 the intention that good intentions do not equal good outcomes, 1:21:10.400 --> 1:21:12.840 and we're not over and over. I mean, the whole 1:21:12.920 --> 1:21:18.720 socialist experiment is good intentions that have disastrous outcomes. So 1:21:19.000 --> 1:21:22.760 we really need to look at this from you know what, 1:21:22.760 --> 1:21:27.280 what are the better angels of our nature to solve 1:21:27.360 --> 1:21:31.160 the affordability problem for families? And the Trump adminstration is 1:21:31.200 --> 1:21:34.599 doing amazing things forward that end, and that's those are 1:21:34.600 --> 1:21:38.120 the things that we need to see more in our economy. 1:21:38.200 --> 1:21:42.000 For example, in the regulations. Last year, President Trump put 1:21:42.000 --> 1:21:44.840 in an executive order that if any agency wanted to 1:21:44.880 --> 1:21:49.240 create one regulation, they had to ten regulations before they 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:53.240 could do that. And it's it's phenomenal because it unleashes 1:21:53.600 --> 1:21:58.360 competition and unleashes innovation. And you know what's really interesting 1:21:58.439 --> 1:22:00.680 is that in the United States, for exams, we have 1:22:01.840 --> 1:22:05.800 such a more dynamic system economically compared to the rest 1:22:05.800 --> 1:22:10.439 of the world. We hit a stock market high last week. 1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:19.200 It's fifty thousands for a doubt. The US market capitalization 1:22:19.520 --> 1:22:23.120 for our companies here in the US, for our publicly 1:22:23.160 --> 1:22:27.479 traded companies, it's worth more than seventy trillion dollars. To 1:22:27.479 --> 1:22:30.400 put that in perspective, the European Union is only fifteen 1:22:30.439 --> 1:22:34.320 point seven trillions for the entire European Union, China is 1:22:34.360 --> 1:22:38.800 only eleven trillion. Japan less than seven trillions, So we 1:22:38.840 --> 1:22:42.960 are orders of magnitudes above any other country in the 1:22:43.000 --> 1:22:46.360 world when it comes to our economy and our innovation, 1:22:46.479 --> 1:22:49.559 and a big part of that is through what they 1:22:49.560 --> 1:22:55.200 call animal spirits in economics, which means competition driving down prices. 1:22:55.520 --> 1:22:58.280 And credit card rate caps are the opposite of that. 1:22:58.439 --> 1:23:02.040 So I think it's important again not to shame anybody 1:23:02.080 --> 1:23:04.960 for a good intention, but to just really focus on 1:23:05.120 --> 1:23:07.080 what is working and let's do more of that. 1:23:07.720 --> 1:23:09.679 Well, yeah, you know, granted, and you know the idea 1:23:09.720 --> 1:23:12.519 that the two sides are Trump is the greatest thing ever. 1:23:12.560 --> 1:23:14.599 He makes no mistakes and if it is, it's somebody 1:23:14.640 --> 1:23:17.360 else's fault. And the other side is he's evil. He's 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:19.880 a manipulative genius at the same time the dumbest man 1:23:19.920 --> 1:23:21.200 ever to hold the presidency. I don't know how he 1:23:21.200 --> 1:23:22.800 could be a genius and dumb at the same time. 1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:25.720 But those are the the tired narratives that they fire 1:23:25.760 --> 1:23:27.960 right and the far left. The real reality is is 1:23:28.560 --> 1:23:30.559 I look at this policy, and you're right, there are 1:23:30.600 --> 1:23:33.080 policies that he's enacted and more for that matter, that 1:23:33.160 --> 1:23:35.559 are putting us on the right track. It's not catching 1:23:35.640 --> 1:23:37.719 up when you do know, the tariff thing, for example, 1:23:37.720 --> 1:23:39.479 that's a long slow burn. I don't know if we've 1:23:39.520 --> 1:23:41.200 got the patience for it. I don't know, quite honestly 1:23:41.200 --> 1:23:43.760 at this point how much more we should pursue it, 1:23:43.800 --> 1:23:47.320 because it's driving costs up as well, among other factors. Now, 1:23:47.680 --> 1:23:49.400 Wall Street and Main Street, as you know, are two 1:23:49.439 --> 1:23:52.200 different things entirely. But I'm looking at some of these policies. 1:23:52.200 --> 1:23:53.680 This one just doesn't make any sense to me. It 1:23:53.680 --> 1:23:57.200 seems counterintuitive and shooting yourself in the foot. It sounds good, 1:23:57.439 --> 1:23:59.439 but once you scratch the surface, it's terrible. 1:24:01.680 --> 1:24:04.479 Yeah, And there are so many other ways. One thing 1:24:04.560 --> 1:24:08.680 that we are working on at Independent Women's Voice is 1:24:08.880 --> 1:24:11.120 we are in the process of putting together our Commons 1:24:11.160 --> 1:24:16.160 drive to support the Trump's Department of Labor because last 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:20.000 year President Trump issued in executive order to allow for 1:24:20.280 --> 1:24:24.439 one case to invest in private equity, which means private 1:24:24.479 --> 1:24:28.640 real estate deals, startup deals that are private deals that 1:24:28.680 --> 1:24:32.439 are outside the publicly trained stock market, to allow for 1:24:32.600 --> 1:24:35.400 one case, which means private sector workers to be able 1:24:35.400 --> 1:24:38.400 to access these deals. And we think it's great because 1:24:38.520 --> 1:24:42.240 it will, as you to your point, tear down that 1:24:42.360 --> 1:24:46.160 wall between Wall Street and Main Street and have more 1:24:46.600 --> 1:24:50.200 ownership by people in the private sector. Because currently these 1:24:50.240 --> 1:24:54.240 private equity deals they are accessible to public sector pensions, 1:24:54.320 --> 1:24:58.360 which means we well connected government workers already have access 1:24:58.360 --> 1:25:02.240 to these deals as well as a credited investors, which 1:25:02.240 --> 1:25:05.439 are high net worth individuals making above a certain threshold. 1:25:06.600 --> 1:25:10.559 Trump wants to bring that wall down between Wall Street 1:25:10.560 --> 1:25:12.240 and Main Street when it comes to private equity, and 1:25:12.280 --> 1:25:16.400 private equity has a long track record of a higher return. 1:25:16.960 --> 1:25:21.559 And when you bring in a different asset crossed into 1:25:21.560 --> 1:25:23.960 your four one kke, that also improves the safety of 1:25:23.960 --> 1:25:26.439 it because you have more diversification. And that's one of 1:25:26.479 --> 1:25:28.280 the first rules investing is to diversify. 1:25:28.560 --> 1:25:30.840 Yeah, I mean there's higher risk, but also I mean 1:25:30.880 --> 1:25:33.000 it's higher reward but also higher risk along that too 1:25:33.000 --> 1:25:35.800 when you're dealing with private equity. But the buyer has 1:25:35.840 --> 1:25:37.800 to beware. It's it's my money, and I choose to 1:25:37.800 --> 1:25:41.240 invest it no matter how conservative or risk averse I am. 1:25:41.760 --> 1:25:44.280 There's always an alternative that as well. That's how it works. Again. 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:47.760 She is Karrie Sheffield over at Independent Women's form of this. 1:25:48.040 --> 1:25:49.680 Thanks again, care, I appreciate. 1:25:49.240 --> 1:25:51.400 It, Thanks for having me. 1:25:51.479 --> 1:25:53.639 God bless take care. We got a news update coming 1:25:53.680 --> 1:25:56.680 up in just minutes on seven hundred WLW the very 1:25:56.760 --> 1:25:59.799 latest on what's going on with Savannah Guthrie's mom, Nancy Guthrie. 1:25:59.840 --> 1:26:03.000 That a little bit more evidence. Hopefully that brings us 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:05.160 thing to conclusion, and a positive one at that. We'll 1:26:05.160 --> 1:26:07.519 get full details coming up. Any big warm up continues 1:26:07.520 --> 1:26:10.280 here in Cincinnati. Added more in news five minutes away 1:26:10.320 --> 1:26:11.080 seven hundred. 1:26:13.240 --> 1:26:13.839 The bells. 1:26:14.920 --> 1:26:17.920 Do you hear the bells? It could only mean one thing. 1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:22.920 It's real estate time with Michelle Sloane, Remax time agent 1:26:23.040 --> 1:26:27.439 and proud proprietor of sloan sellshomes dot com. Heed her 1:26:27.479 --> 1:26:33.000 words or face her wrath on seven hundred wl WI. 1:26:33.920 --> 1:26:34.519 Good morning. 1:26:34.960 --> 1:26:39.400 Are we going to fight about dishes? I'm ready. 1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:42.920 You don't need them because we've got high speed internet, 1:26:43.080 --> 1:26:44.320 so you don't need a satellite dish. 1:26:45.240 --> 1:26:46.880 Shush. Oh my gosh. 1:26:47.000 --> 1:26:49.479 You would think after three hundred and seventy years of. 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:52.120 Marriage, no longer than that, there wouldn't be. 1:26:55.360 --> 1:26:58.200 There wouldn't be anything for us to really fight about. 1:26:58.920 --> 1:27:03.519 But there is one issue where we just cannot not 1:27:04.640 --> 1:27:11.200 agree on, and it's dishes. How to dry dishes if 1:27:11.240 --> 1:27:17.040 they're not in the dishwasher, right, you will tend to 1:27:17.360 --> 1:27:20.960 wash them and put them on the right side of 1:27:21.000 --> 1:27:22.639 the sink to drip dry. 1:27:22.800 --> 1:27:27.200 Now, stand by, those aren't dishes, if you notice. When 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:34.200 I do the dishes, okay, dishes, oversized pans, cutting boards, 1:27:34.360 --> 1:27:37.679 things like that, I will put them on the side 1:27:37.720 --> 1:27:39.800 to just kind of drip dry, and then eventually you 1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:42.240 just touel them off, get get the stains off, and 1:27:42.240 --> 1:27:44.120 then you just put them away. You will lay a 1:27:44.160 --> 1:27:45.800 towel out on the counter and then put them to 1:27:45.920 --> 1:27:48.760 glasses and everything down. And then what happens is you know, 1:27:49.080 --> 1:27:51.240 drips seat hold on. I'm giving you my side of it. 1:27:51.280 --> 1:27:53.400 Then I want to hear your side. Environment is you 1:27:53.400 --> 1:27:55.439 put then you put the glass down on the thing. 1:27:55.439 --> 1:27:57.599 It drips down good, and then that water sits there 1:27:57.960 --> 1:28:00.719 and then it makes the glass stinky because because it 1:28:00.760 --> 1:28:02.559 gets kind of moldy and musty, and so you got 1:28:02.600 --> 1:28:03.719 to clean them all over again. 1:28:04.080 --> 1:28:05.439 It's not there that long. 1:28:05.800 --> 1:28:08.040 Yeah, they are. I did so my job. I did 1:28:08.080 --> 1:28:11.120 dishes on Sunday because I cooked meals for you because 1:28:11.120 --> 1:28:13.679 you're an invalid. And the thanks I get is while 1:28:13.680 --> 1:28:15.040 they're on that say, if you put them in there, 1:28:15.080 --> 1:28:17.360 I'm not put them on a way like, oh okay, well, 1:28:17.360 --> 1:28:19.040 then I'm going to go in and get the fork 1:28:19.080 --> 1:28:20.559 that I used out of the dish one, I take 1:28:20.600 --> 1:28:22.320 the dishwasher out. I'm just going to get the things 1:28:22.400 --> 1:28:24.599 I used and put it. If you want to be roommates, 1:28:24.640 --> 1:28:29.880 then separating dishes. Now, some people have separate finances. We 1:28:29.960 --> 1:28:33.040 have separate dishes because you're a pain in the ass 1:28:33.080 --> 1:28:33.360 with it. 1:28:33.680 --> 1:28:37.400 No, no, seriously, how hard is it though, because when 1:28:37.439 --> 1:28:40.880 you set let's say you wastle glass, you set it 1:28:40.960 --> 1:28:44.080 on the side of the counter, on just the counter 1:28:44.720 --> 1:28:48.760 halfway leaking into the sink, and that glass is going 1:28:48.800 --> 1:28:53.160 to fall over and break. If it's on a dish towel, 1:28:53.360 --> 1:28:55.840 My god, what a dish towel is it won't fall 1:28:55.920 --> 1:28:57.559 over and break as easily. 1:28:57.720 --> 1:29:00.400 I ask you a question, now, who leaves bred dishes 1:29:00.400 --> 1:29:02.080 and glassware around the house? Mir or you? 1:29:02.479 --> 1:29:05.839 Oh, that's me. I will totally I will totally totally 1:29:05.880 --> 1:29:06.160 take you. 1:29:06.200 --> 1:29:08.120 Now, when I leave the glass with just a little 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:09.640 bit of it over the edge so that so the 1:29:09.680 --> 1:29:12.320 air can flow and dry the glass out. 1:29:11.800 --> 1:29:12.679 Then just put it away. 1:29:12.720 --> 1:29:14.280 If it's such a big deal, well it's got to 1:29:14.360 --> 1:29:18.599 dry first, Oh god, okay, this is this is one 1:29:18.600 --> 1:29:22.559 of those things, a drip dry, and you should just 1:29:22.600 --> 1:29:24.880 get a sink rack like your mom had. 1:29:25.400 --> 1:29:27.000 See this is where it comes back. 1:29:26.840 --> 1:29:29.320 To what you put a towel down. Isn't that the 1:29:29.360 --> 1:29:31.280 same thing as a sink rack? 1:29:32.240 --> 1:29:33.960 Well, why can't you just put it on the towel 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:34.880 that and make me happy? 1:29:34.920 --> 1:29:38.599 Because it stinks. It the same work all over again, 1:29:38.680 --> 1:29:40.799 and it's like the same day. You're just like repeating. 1:29:40.840 --> 1:29:43.559 Labor is like the dishrushers open, but you'll still put 1:29:43.560 --> 1:29:46.120 bolls and utensils in the sink and I'll pick them 1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:47.400 up and go, oh, dishrushers. 1:29:47.600 --> 1:29:50.559 Well, it's going to get there. Eventually, it'll get where 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:51.040 it's going. 1:29:52.240 --> 1:29:54.000 Get on my next wife. 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:57.800 Oh sorry, that tell us part maybe, and it may 1:29:57.840 --> 1:30:00.240 be sooner rather than lay. 1:30:00.160 --> 1:30:08.920 Each other, by the way, happy Valentine's Day at what towels? Good? 1:30:09.280 --> 1:30:09.559 Thank you. 1:30:09.560 --> 1:30:11.479 I'm gonna lay them all over the counters and then 1:30:11.520 --> 1:30:14.200 I'm gonna put the wet. 1:30:14.040 --> 1:30:16.160 This is one right exactly. 1:30:16.720 --> 1:30:18.840 Oh, for heaven's sakes, we do have real estates talk 1:30:18.840 --> 1:30:22.040 about though. I know that doing your dishes is part 1:30:22.040 --> 1:30:23.880 of real estate sort of kind of not really. 1:30:23.960 --> 1:30:27.479 But what if we just want the paper. We're just 1:30:27.520 --> 1:30:28.120 trying that. 1:30:28.120 --> 1:30:32.479 That's the possibility. That's an incredienty We'll just go chinae sold. 1:30:32.520 --> 1:30:34.280 But a lot of people just eat out every meal. 1:30:34.320 --> 1:30:36.120 We could do that, I suppose to somebody else's problem. 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:38.479 I would now, Yeah, No, I like to cook, so 1:30:38.920 --> 1:30:40.960 you do like to and I like to eat your food. 1:30:41.000 --> 1:30:46.160 I know you do. And she yells at because I'm 1:30:46.240 --> 1:30:49.639 leaving the stuff up. Anyway, Let's get into real estate 1:30:49.680 --> 1:30:52.720 related stuff, including the Twenty first Century Act. I know 1:30:52.760 --> 1:30:54.080 you want to talk about that. What is that? 1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:54.400 I do? 1:30:54.479 --> 1:30:56.720 Yeah, So there's something new going on how to make 1:30:56.800 --> 1:31:00.599 housing more affordable. That's been the goal for the last 1:31:00.800 --> 1:31:04.040 I don't know, twenty years, right, But the House just 1:31:04.160 --> 1:31:08.920 passed a major bipartisan bill, the Housing for twenty first 1:31:08.920 --> 1:31:13.960 Century Act. It's pretty comprehensive. What it does is whether 1:31:14.040 --> 1:31:16.720 it happens or not again is sort of up in 1:31:16.760 --> 1:31:19.800 the air. It's going to streamline zoning and permitting to 1:31:19.840 --> 1:31:23.200 make building new homes easier because we have a shortage 1:31:23.200 --> 1:31:27.280 of homes. It's going to boost affordability of housing and 1:31:27.360 --> 1:31:31.679 financing grants, which also could help some development block grants 1:31:31.800 --> 1:31:36.360 things of that nature in zones that are determined to 1:31:36.439 --> 1:31:39.880 be ready to be developed, but there's just no money available. 1:31:40.479 --> 1:31:45.000 Modernizing federal affordability housing programs. That's going to be kind 1:31:45.040 --> 1:31:47.920 of a nice thing to have as an option for 1:31:48.040 --> 1:31:53.519 young buyers especially, and some protections for renters and buyers. Now, 1:31:53.560 --> 1:31:56.479 I'm always a little bit skeptical when the government gets 1:31:56.479 --> 1:32:01.080 involved in housing because it's not always been a good thing. 1:32:02.320 --> 1:32:07.400 I'm not sure that they're asking me my opinion, but 1:32:07.520 --> 1:32:12.479 it's definitely something that I'm glad that somebody's trying to 1:32:12.520 --> 1:32:15.200 do something. And I do think that the zoning and permitting, 1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:19.639 streamlining some of those actions and activities. Now you've got 1:32:19.640 --> 1:32:21.760 it at the federal level, but it does have to 1:32:21.800 --> 1:32:23.800 trickle down to the local level as well. 1:32:23.920 --> 1:32:26.040 So all right, so what does it mean for the consumer? 1:32:26.080 --> 1:32:26.240 Though? 1:32:26.240 --> 1:32:29.240 Okay, this is all good government stuff, but well, you know, 1:32:29.240 --> 1:32:31.880 speeding up permitting for example, or is reducing zoning. But 1:32:31.920 --> 1:32:32.960 what does that mean to the consumer? 1:32:33.520 --> 1:32:37.519 It means the possibility and again it's not a short 1:32:37.640 --> 1:32:40.559 term goal. It's the possibility that homes will become more 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:43.920 of affordable because there are going to be incentives to 1:32:44.080 --> 1:32:47.600 build affordable housing, and that's really what it is. But 1:32:47.680 --> 1:32:51.600 I will say more housing supply will certainly be a 1:32:51.640 --> 1:32:55.840 benefit to buyers. It's going to reduce the barriers for 1:32:56.000 --> 1:32:59.439 a lot of builders, speeding up permitting. It's going to 1:32:59.479 --> 1:33:02.000 cause you know, it's going to create a lot of jobs, 1:33:02.040 --> 1:33:05.280 which is a good thing. But you know, in places 1:33:05.320 --> 1:33:10.479 in Ohio, Cincinnati, Columbus, we've had such tight inventory on 1:33:10.520 --> 1:33:15.720 those starter homes and having builders because everybody wants to 1:33:15.760 --> 1:33:19.880 make the most money, it does have to be a 1:33:19.920 --> 1:33:25.000 group effort to create a home for that is affordable 1:33:25.120 --> 1:33:27.560 for all. You know, the old Seer's home where you 1:33:27.600 --> 1:33:29.679 could buy a home for I don't know, ten thousand 1:33:29.760 --> 1:33:32.240 dollars or something like that. That's never going to happen again. 1:33:32.479 --> 1:33:37.000 But these federal incentives could be helpful. It still has 1:33:37.040 --> 1:33:39.080 to go to the next step. It has to go 1:33:39.120 --> 1:33:41.320 to the Senate, so we'll keep an eye on that. 1:33:41.439 --> 1:33:43.920 The other thing that is not in this bill, which 1:33:43.960 --> 1:33:48.000 we talked about at one point, is the investor restrictions, 1:33:48.439 --> 1:33:52.160 So it's not included to limit the number of homes 1:33:52.160 --> 1:33:57.520 that investors are able to purchase. So that's another interesting 1:33:57.600 --> 1:34:01.679 factor because you know, as I'm sting homes and selling homes. 1:34:02.320 --> 1:34:05.760 At least one or two offers that I receive are 1:34:05.920 --> 1:34:11.720 from institutional investors, whether or not they are large that 1:34:11.800 --> 1:34:16.680 own more than one hundred properties. Almost every time, if 1:34:16.720 --> 1:34:20.880 it's an affordable home, it will there will be an 1:34:20.880 --> 1:34:24.840 opportunity for an investor to buy that property because it's 1:34:24.880 --> 1:34:27.360 in that sweet spot. So that makes it more difficult 1:34:27.400 --> 1:34:30.400 for first time home buyers and buyers in a lower 1:34:30.439 --> 1:34:34.519 income bracket and affordability bracket. It makes it more difficult 1:34:34.560 --> 1:34:37.040 for them to get it because if a seller sees, 1:34:37.080 --> 1:34:41.439 here's a cash offer, here's a financed offer, Faha, they're 1:34:41.479 --> 1:34:44.479 both the exact same price. I can close on the 1:34:44.520 --> 1:34:47.120 cash offer in two weeks. It's going to take thirty 1:34:47.200 --> 1:34:51.080 days plus an inspection, plus maybe some more red tape 1:34:51.320 --> 1:34:54.120 to get through the one that needs financing. Which one 1:34:54.120 --> 1:34:55.240 are you going to pick? 1:34:55.680 --> 1:34:55.920 Now? 1:34:55.960 --> 1:34:58.439 Some sellers will say, I'm not going to sell to 1:34:58.680 --> 1:35:03.000 an institutional and that is the seller's right to decide. 1:35:03.479 --> 1:35:07.240 Even if the institutional investor is a higher price point, 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:11.280 sellers do not have to accept that offer if they 1:35:11.320 --> 1:35:13.040 don't want to sell to them. Now, you have to 1:35:13.040 --> 1:35:17.920 be really careful about why you're choosing. You know, you 1:35:17.960 --> 1:35:20.559 got to be careful about fair housing. But if it 1:35:20.600 --> 1:35:23.439 comes down to it and you make a decision as 1:35:23.439 --> 1:35:26.799 a homeowner to sell to a person, a real person, 1:35:26.920 --> 1:35:29.160 and that's that's on you, you can totally do that. 1:35:29.240 --> 1:35:31.840 Okay, got it? No, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, 1:35:32.040 --> 1:35:33.800 you hear the things. I guess on an answer to 1:35:33.880 --> 1:35:35.400 two things that I think are driving off the cost 1:35:35.439 --> 1:35:38.120 of housing because there's a barrier to entry with the money. 1:35:38.400 --> 1:35:40.920 This will reduce it to some degree because you're speeding 1:35:41.000 --> 1:35:43.720 up the permitting and zoning process and creating more usable land, 1:35:43.720 --> 1:35:45.920 which I think, quite honestly, the zoning laws have been 1:35:46.000 --> 1:35:47.479 jacked up for a long time in this country. There's 1:35:47.479 --> 1:35:49.720 no doubt about it. Cincinnati is allowing you to you know, 1:35:49.760 --> 1:35:51.400 and I think it's a good idea to take your 1:35:51.920 --> 1:35:55.040 freestanding garage, for example, and make that a livable using space. 1:35:55.120 --> 1:35:57.360 You can rent that out. You know, it's like a 1:35:57.360 --> 1:36:00.880 small house basically. But the cost of labor and the 1:36:00.920 --> 1:36:02.960 lack of labor is a huge factory and we always 1:36:02.960 --> 1:36:04.880 talk about that we need more people in the trades, 1:36:04.920 --> 1:36:07.240 and people are responding to that, but it's going to 1:36:07.320 --> 1:36:09.200 take a long time. For those numbers to catch up, 1:36:09.280 --> 1:36:12.439 because you know, people in their fifties are leaving the biz, 1:36:12.479 --> 1:36:15.400 fifties and sixties are leaving the business at greater rates 1:36:15.400 --> 1:36:17.679 and were replacing those bodies, and we're already behind because 1:36:17.720 --> 1:36:20.639 of that for the last several at least the last generation, 1:36:20.720 --> 1:36:23.400 if not too. The other element here is with tariffs 1:36:23.400 --> 1:36:25.960 and all that other stuff, the cost of materials is 1:36:26.120 --> 1:36:29.559 really really expensive too. So does what they're proposing with 1:36:29.600 --> 1:36:31.600 this twenty first Century Housing Act off set that. 1:36:33.080 --> 1:36:36.320 It's gonna only time will tell really if it passes. 1:36:36.600 --> 1:36:38.639 We're just going to have to wait and see how 1:36:38.680 --> 1:36:41.560 it affects it. And again, you can't build a house overnight. 1:36:42.000 --> 1:36:44.960 It's going to take months. And even though you are 1:36:45.720 --> 1:36:48.439 that red tape is going to you know, they're trying 1:36:48.479 --> 1:36:50.160 to cut a little bit of that out, so things 1:36:50.160 --> 1:36:52.960 are going to move a little bit quicker. We'll be 1:36:53.040 --> 1:36:56.840 able to see the results of this act potentially if 1:36:56.880 --> 1:36:59.840 it passes, maybe two or three years down the road. 1:37:00.160 --> 1:37:03.160 So it's nothing that's going to happen immediately. The other 1:37:03.240 --> 1:37:06.880 thing that the rising costs of owning a home, and 1:37:07.520 --> 1:37:11.280 this is really really difficult. It's hard for homeowners to swallow. 1:37:11.320 --> 1:37:15.160 But did you know that homeowner's insurance now makes up 1:37:15.200 --> 1:37:20.519 nearly ten percent of the average monthly housing payment ten percent. 1:37:21.760 --> 1:37:23.760 And so then on top of that, you know, you 1:37:23.800 --> 1:37:27.320 have your insurance, you have your utilities that we know 1:37:27.560 --> 1:37:30.600 are going up, the cost of utilities, We know that 1:37:30.680 --> 1:37:36.680 your taxes are increasing. Yes, so all of that actually 1:37:37.200 --> 1:37:41.920 lumped in. That's also part of the housing affordability and 1:37:42.000 --> 1:37:47.000 the lack thereof. And so these are issues that a 1:37:47.000 --> 1:37:51.600 lot of new homeowners are like, or young people especially, 1:37:51.720 --> 1:37:54.920 or like I'm out. You know, you have to you 1:37:54.960 --> 1:37:57.559 have to spend so much to have a home of 1:37:57.600 --> 1:37:58.040 your own. 1:37:58.640 --> 1:37:59.559 Why not just rent? 1:38:00.280 --> 1:38:03.160 And I don't have to be bogged down by all 1:38:03.240 --> 1:38:06.880 of the extras and if the investors want them again, 1:38:06.920 --> 1:38:10.160 we're in a bit of a vicious cycle. And just 1:38:10.320 --> 1:38:13.519 lowering the interest rates, which I know that something President 1:38:13.560 --> 1:38:16.720 Trump wants to do, and he's talking about lowering you know, 1:38:16.880 --> 1:38:21.680 lowering rates. Again, that's not going to solve all of 1:38:21.720 --> 1:38:26.720 the issues that homeowner's face, yes, and so you know, 1:38:26.800 --> 1:38:29.200 it's one of those things where we talk about it 1:38:29.320 --> 1:38:31.960 and I know for just the general public it's a 1:38:32.120 --> 1:38:37.240 really difficult pain point. But you know, you definitely. If 1:38:37.280 --> 1:38:40.080 you're buying a home, you have to be really careful 1:38:40.439 --> 1:38:43.559 because there are so many additional fees on top of 1:38:43.600 --> 1:38:47.920 the mortgage that will never go down. You know, as 1:38:47.960 --> 1:38:50.880 long as we've been on this earth, right, have you 1:38:50.960 --> 1:38:55.840 ever seen truly taxes or utilities decrease? 1:38:56.120 --> 1:38:58.280 Well, it makes it up in other areas. Is the problem. 1:38:58.320 --> 1:39:00.160 I mean, we're fighting the property text battle nowe in 1:39:00.200 --> 1:39:03.160 Ohio obviously, as you know, yes's funny as you guys 1:39:03.160 --> 1:39:06.640 you're talking about this. Somebody just DMed me and asked about, well, 1:39:06.680 --> 1:39:09.320 what about three D printed houses? You know, isn't that 1:39:09.360 --> 1:39:12.280 a cheaper alternative to this? And that is you know it, 1:39:12.479 --> 1:39:14.360 You don't need as much labor to do it, and 1:39:14.400 --> 1:39:17.000 you could put them up pretty quickly and alleviate that. 1:39:17.240 --> 1:39:19.120 I think there's some problems. I mean, first, as you mentioned, 1:39:19.120 --> 1:39:21.960 there's a lot of regulatory and code challenges there. But 1:39:22.240 --> 1:39:24.040 if you can wipe some of that out, that helps. 1:39:24.320 --> 1:39:27.400 I know, the construction industry, like any industry that's entrenched, 1:39:27.680 --> 1:39:29.560 doesn't really want to give up ground. So you know, 1:39:29.600 --> 1:39:33.360 you've got local contractors, trade unions, supply chains all built 1:39:33.400 --> 1:39:35.920 around the way we've always built things right and that 1:39:36.080 --> 1:39:40.519 is you frame and stick and also too, I think 1:39:40.520 --> 1:39:42.240 it's too true too in to tell I mean, you know, 1:39:42.240 --> 1:39:44.479 it sounds cool that you get a video from someplace 1:39:44.520 --> 1:39:46.719 in Germany where they're putting up a three D printed 1:39:47.200 --> 1:39:48.360 concrete building, and an. 1:39:48.520 --> 1:39:50.760 Oh, I love watching it, if you I mean, I 1:39:50.800 --> 1:39:55.280 love watching those be built because you know, the concrete 1:39:55.320 --> 1:39:58.880 is going around and they seem like very stable structures. 1:40:00.479 --> 1:40:03.400 It's interesting how you're going to insulate that and do 1:40:03.439 --> 1:40:05.840 all of those things. Again, there's a lot of there's 1:40:05.840 --> 1:40:09.200 a lot more questions now three D printed homes. We've 1:40:09.240 --> 1:40:12.000 been talking about that for probably five years or more, yep. 1:40:12.479 --> 1:40:16.160 And you certainly don't see anything like that in Cincinnati 1:40:16.280 --> 1:40:17.200 as far as I know. 1:40:17.320 --> 1:40:19.519 I know they're doing them in I think in Austin, Texas, 1:40:19.520 --> 1:40:22.760 for example. But the prize you mentioned though, it's just like, 1:40:23.280 --> 1:40:26.479 you know, you still need roofers, you still need glaciers 1:40:26.479 --> 1:40:31.560 to put windows in doors, electrical party elected, kay. And 1:40:31.600 --> 1:40:33.519 the other thing is, and you probably don't think of this, 1:40:33.560 --> 1:40:36.800 but you need specialized concrete in order concrete mixtures for 1:40:36.920 --> 1:40:39.160 that stuff to go in. And there's still you know, 1:40:39.280 --> 1:40:41.360 again it's in an infancy. We don't know twenty what 1:40:41.680 --> 1:40:44.439 the life of these things are twenty thirty years from now, 1:40:44.479 --> 1:40:47.840 because it's so new what happens over decades of these 1:40:47.840 --> 1:40:50.400 buildings and so is it like aluminum wiring, you know, 1:40:50.439 --> 1:40:52.280 you put it all in and then wait a minute, 1:40:52.280 --> 1:40:54.120 we got a problem. We're going to tear it all out. Well, 1:40:54.160 --> 1:40:56.360 you can't really do that with a building. And if 1:40:56.400 --> 1:40:59.000 you're a bank, you're a lender, you're looking at going 1:40:59.640 --> 1:41:00.800 I can invest in that. 1:41:00.920 --> 1:41:03.200 Yeah, I'm not going to touch that, especially with the 1:41:03.200 --> 1:41:08.840 freezing thal in Ohio. I think a concrete will always crack. 1:41:08.960 --> 1:41:11.479 That's just one of those mantras that we will say 1:41:11.520 --> 1:41:13.120 over and over again because people. 1:41:12.920 --> 1:41:15.280 Are like, there's a crack in the in the foundation. 1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:17.679 Yeah right right, yeah, it's just in nature. But anyway, 1:41:17.680 --> 1:41:19.360 I mean, I throw that out there. So my wife, no, 1:41:19.439 --> 1:41:21.840 it's interesting, Yeah, my wife, Michelle Stone. It's called the 1:41:22.439 --> 1:41:27.519 Housing for the Twenty first Century Act. Congress just passed this, the. 1:41:27.479 --> 1:41:31.000 House of Representatives have passed it. It's onto the Senate. 1:41:31.640 --> 1:41:35.200 You know, it's definitely something to keep an eye on. 1:41:35.760 --> 1:41:39.040 It seems to be bipartisan, meaning maybe it will pass, 1:41:39.160 --> 1:41:41.280 but then of course there's always somebody that says, well, 1:41:41.320 --> 1:41:44.479 I want something else in it that's going to benefit me, 1:41:44.720 --> 1:41:46.600 So we'll keep an eye on it. 1:41:46.600 --> 1:41:49.479 All right. So the takeaway from my perspective is to 1:41:49.520 --> 1:41:52.040 show you just how terrible our government, our leadership and 1:41:52.080 --> 1:41:54.920 congresses on both sides. We have something called the Housing 1:41:54.960 --> 1:41:57.000 for the Twenty first Century Act that may or may 1:41:57.000 --> 1:42:00.360 not pass over a quarter away through the Senate injury. 1:42:00.720 --> 1:42:03.160 My wife, Michelle Sloan is here from Sloan cells Holmes 1:42:03.160 --> 1:42:06.480 dot Com and avi ad dishwasher on the show A dishchowl. 1:42:06.479 --> 1:42:08.240 I'm I'm pro dishchowel. 1:42:08.520 --> 1:42:10.960 I'm just saying, yeah, if you use it, it's not 1:42:11.040 --> 1:42:15.760 a drying rack. You're a woman. You're supposed to be 1:42:15.800 --> 1:42:16.519 good at this stuff. 1:42:16.800 --> 1:42:21.360 Oh now, oh no, don't you dare. 1:42:22.120 --> 1:42:24.520 It's Valentine's Day, son. 1:42:24.920 --> 1:42:28.840 It was. Yeah, No matter how nasty and filthy are, 1:42:28.840 --> 1:42:31.200 I still love you more than anything. So all right, 1:42:31.240 --> 1:42:32.360 I'll talk to you, l I love you. I here 1:42:32.439 --> 1:42:32.559 to go. 1:42:32.720 --> 1:42:33.080 I get that. 1:42:33.320 --> 1:42:37.599 Uh all right, we gotta get to Willie coming up next, 1:42:37.920 --> 1:42:40.560 Scott Sloan Show. I may be dad, I maynad me 1:42:40.600 --> 1:42:42.320 back tomorrow. I don't know. We'll find out. Seven hundred 1:42:42.320 --> 1:42:43.479 ww Cincinnati have a going