Speaker 1: You want to be an a mad Here we go
Speaker 1: Friday Morning Scott Flunds Show, seven hundred WLW. Before we
Speaker 1: get into the fun stuff on Friday Morning's laid dude.
Speaker 1: We got business to take care of, including this. The
Speaker 1: City of Cincinnati's extending its contract with the law firm
Speaker 1: here their independent Council Frost Brown Todd to review the
Speaker 1: effectiveness of leadership within the Cincinnati Police Department of what.
Speaker 1: You may recall that Chief Terry Thiji was suspended, not fired,
Speaker 1: suspended back in October, and so they're going to do
Speaker 1: an investigation. The city is and I guess we have
Speaker 1: more investigating because the contrast was extended till the twenty eighth.
Speaker 1: Of course that's tomorrow. They said we still need more time,
Speaker 1: so we're going to give you another month. And the
Speaker 1: problem with this is its costing taxpayer is more. The
Speaker 1: third round, I guess is on the house. It was
Speaker 1: nine thousand dollars to the extended play to tomorrow, and
Speaker 1: so you're talking close to fifty grand. What's all said
Speaker 1: and done, and again we have the issue here is
Speaker 1: you fired someone in chief, Terry Thiji, and now you
Speaker 1: need months to figure out why you fired her in
Speaker 1: the first place. FOP President Ken Kobra, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: How are you, brother, Hey Scott, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so forty nine k Diji's still on paid administrative leave.
Speaker 1: She's still getting paid her two hundred and three thousand
Speaker 1: dollars salary. I don't know if Henny got a bump.
Speaker 1: I'd imagine he was as interim chief. This is costing
Speaker 1: a ton of money.
Speaker 2: Sure it is. Not only is it costing the taxpayers
Speaker 2: a lot of money, there's a lot of uncertainty right
Speaker 2: now in the police department. It's something that the men
Speaker 2: and women of this department are owed to know who's
Speaker 2: going to be in charge of this place and who's
Speaker 2: going to be in charge permanently. And the longer they
Speaker 2: drag it along, the more uncertain it is of what's
Speaker 2: really going on.
Speaker 1: And at what point does the investigation stop being to
Speaker 1: search for answers and clause and start being a way
Speaker 1: to keep Fiji and Limbo indefinitely. I mean, if it
Speaker 1: were clear cut, and typically when you get fired four
Speaker 1: clause there's something that triggers that in your contracts. It's obvious,
Speaker 1: and yet it's taking October November December January. We've got
Speaker 1: five months of investigation and they still can't find out why.
Speaker 1: What the hell's taken us along?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a million dollar question. You think that
Speaker 2: if you had just caused to fire somebody, you would
Speaker 2: be so blatantly obvious to everybody to see that this
Speaker 2: is why this is happening, and it's just not there.
Speaker 2: They can't find anything. That's that's the whole problem with this.
Speaker 2: It's nothing but a big scam to get rid of her,
Speaker 2: and now they don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: Does this undermine Adam Henny at this point? Because from
Speaker 1: those I talked to outside of you, he seems like
Speaker 1: a good guy. He's certainly qualified to be chief of
Speaker 1: the City of Cincinnati. But this whole thing, as you
Speaker 1: mentioned you alluded to Ken, it doesn't make his job easier.
Speaker 1: There's only so much he can do because he's in
Speaker 1: orm he doesn't have the full title. Yet it undermines
Speaker 1: his authority and his ability to function, and therefore it
Speaker 1: undermines the mission of cpd.
Speaker 2: Oh without a doubt, you know, because like I said,
Speaker 2: with him being just an interim, you're right, there's there's
Speaker 2: permanent decisions that typically aren't made when you have an
Speaker 2: interim chief. You know, it's not fair to him what's
Speaker 2: going on. It's not fair to Chief SIGI to be
Speaker 2: sitting at home going, well, what are they going to do?
Speaker 2: You know, is today the day that they're gonna fire me?
Speaker 2: You know what is today to day that there's gonna
Speaker 2: be some kind of conclusion And clearly that's not gonna
Speaker 2: be the case because they've extended this yet another month.
Speaker 1: Well, I know, Terry, you haven't spoken since she was fired,
Speaker 1: and she's you know, obviously because that's the advice and counsel.
Speaker 1: I get that whole thing, but I don't know for
Speaker 1: me or anyone listening. You're like, Okay, I get two
Speaker 1: hundred and three thousand dollars in full benefits and I
Speaker 1: don't have to do anything. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, you want some closure.
Speaker 2: Well, sure, you know, and she's she's already done, you know,
Speaker 2: her full career. You came back after she retired, so
Speaker 2: it's not like this is about money for her. It's
Speaker 2: not like it's about you know, I'm you know, I've
Speaker 2: got to got to be able to feed my family. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, this is something that she came back because
Speaker 2: she felt driven to lead this department, and now it's
Speaker 2: just everything's up in limbo and it's just not fair.
Speaker 2: It's not how you treat somebody that's spent as many
Speaker 2: years that she has, much less anybody you know that's
Speaker 2: employed someplace. But unfortunately that's where we're at.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, they put her on leave before they
Speaker 1: even hired a law firm to investigator. From your perspective,
Speaker 1: what does that say about whether this is really ever
Speaker 1: about due process?
Speaker 2: Well, we know that it's not. You know, they for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, they decided they were going to get rid
Speaker 2: of her, just like they did Michael Washington, and now
Speaker 2: they're in in a spot where it's going to end
Speaker 2: up costing them. And that's just we knew all along
Speaker 2: that this wasn't about her effectiveness. This was they wanted
Speaker 2: to go in a different direction, and instead of doing
Speaker 2: things the right way, you know, they fumbled, unfortunately, like
Speaker 2: they did many times before.
Speaker 1: The tipping point was and this happened right after the
Speaker 1: Fountain Square shooting and the individual who shot fired those
Speaker 1: weapons at City Bird turns out he's free now because
Speaker 1: it was ruled self defense. Because the two individuals inside
Speaker 1: both under age and both in under disability. Mean they
Speaker 1: shouldn't have a gun fired at him from inside city?
Speaker 1: Bird Chicken, how's that on the chief?
Speaker 2: Exactly? It's not. You know, we still see that there's
Speaker 2: there's still violence going on in this city. There's only
Speaker 2: so much that the chief can do, There's only so
Speaker 2: much that every uniform police officer can do. But to
Speaker 2: try to put your crime stolely at the feet of
Speaker 2: her is just not fair.
Speaker 1: We know Ken Cober that share Long city manager sent
Speaker 1: Chief DG an email in August that essentially ordered her
Speaker 1: to clear all communications through the mayor's officeer go back
Speaker 1: that far that started in August? Does the FLP do
Speaker 1: you guys believe this investigation can truly be independent given
Speaker 1: that context?
Speaker 2: Now it's not. I mean it's in one investigation. I
Speaker 2: mean you can go and look at her personnel file
Speaker 2: and there's absolutely no discipline. And you would think if
Speaker 2: if she was doing things that were so egregious that
Speaker 2: they need to terminate her, you would think that there
Speaker 2: would be at least some kind of paper trail other
Speaker 2: than you know, one communication saying hey, everything needs to
Speaker 2: get through me. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: This is an indictment of Adam Henny, the now interim chief,
Speaker 1: But he was a command officer who signed a citation
Speaker 1: that downtown brawl case the mayor's request. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: they say that didn't happen, but let's just call it
Speaker 1: what it was. You need to charge a white guy
Speaker 1: in this thing because of propriety, even though Chief now
Speaker 1: Chief Henny wasn't on the scene and he took he
Speaker 1: found the sword for his officers, which I think endears
Speaker 1: him to beat cops for sure, saying hey, listen, he's
Speaker 1: the guy who did this knowing he shouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1: But what does that tell you? Though not about Adam Henny,
Speaker 1: but what does that tell you about who the administration
Speaker 1: trusts and why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know Adam was certainly put in a bad
Speaker 2: position that he had to make a decision. He stuck
Speaker 2: up first trips, which I certainly appreciate, but he certainly
Speaker 2: does call into some questions of how the timing and
Speaker 2: things happen afterwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the comments that came out here when they appointed Frost,
Speaker 1: Brown and Todd to extend this now for the third
Speaker 1: time in order to find out why they fired Chief
Speaker 1: Thiji back in October, they fired her or suspend her,
Speaker 1: I should say, fired her, and now they're looking for
Speaker 1: reasons why, and it's taking five months to do this.
Speaker 1: The quote was I read with the broader goals and
Speaker 1: objectives of the city administration, whether she further those that
Speaker 1: brought her goals? Is that just them? It sounded to
Speaker 1: me like when I read that quote, they're essentially asking
Speaker 1: whether she was loyal enough to the may or, not
Speaker 1: about law and order and the constitution and or swore
Speaker 1: an oath, but loyalty to the administration. And that should ever,
Speaker 1: should that ever be grounds for firing a police chief.
Speaker 2: No, it shouldn't. And this is where Issue five comes
Speaker 2: into play. Deal where the chief only has so much perfection,
Speaker 2: and that's the problem. It's become a politicized position where
Speaker 2: if you don't get along with the people at city Hall,
Speaker 2: even if you're doing the right thing, it's just something
Speaker 2: they don't like, you know, then you're going to end
Speaker 2: up facing these consequences. And that's that's that's why we've
Speaker 2: had so many different chiefs over the last ten twelve years. Now.
Speaker 1: Issue five was sold to the voters like an accountability measure,
Speaker 1: but take us through that. For those who may not
Speaker 1: recall what Issue fives is, how it plays in here,
Speaker 1: describe that.
Speaker 2: You know, prior to it was like twenty ten. You know,
Speaker 2: the police chief and the fire chief as well. They
Speaker 2: were hired and then they were they stayed in the
Speaker 2: collective bargaining unit, so they were protected by our contract.
Speaker 2: Issue five took that away to where they could hire
Speaker 2: anybody from outside the department if they wish, and they
Speaker 2: would have no collective bargaining protection, which is why it
Speaker 2: then became such a politicized position, because you're going to
Speaker 2: do what I want you to do, or I'm going
Speaker 2: to fire you. And we've seen in every major city
Speaker 2: around this country the deal deals with the same thing.
Speaker 2: They have a new police chief every couple of years
Speaker 2: because you know, the honeymoon will wear off, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the chief does something that's city
Speaker 2: hall or city manager whoever doesn't like, and then they
Speaker 2: get rid of them. And it's like that in every
Speaker 2: city in this country.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Yeah, Ken Cober as president of the since the FOP,
Speaker 1: Queen City Lodge and the City of Cincinnats extending their
Speaker 1: contract with Frost Brown Todd here as their independent council
Speaker 1: into looking why they fired Chief Terry Thigi in October
Speaker 1: and their job is to find the reason why they
Speaker 1: fired her in October. And here we are now headed
Speaker 1: into March. So is this about politics? One hundred percent?
Speaker 1: And it's costing the text. There's a hell of a
Speaker 1: lot of money too, because you're still paying DIJI, and
Speaker 1: you're paying Heny, and you're paying the law office the
Speaker 1: law firm to investigate this. And if it was a
Speaker 1: clear cut case of cause for getting fired for cause,
Speaker 1: the reason why why has it taken five months? A
Speaker 1: normal person would ask. So that's Issue five you proposed,
Speaker 1: I believe it was you proposed to those basically the
Speaker 1: many things you said you could do right, repeal Issue five,
Speaker 1: let the chief or Terry Thiej or Adam Hunte whoe ever,
Speaker 1: work independently, or elect a new mayor. So which is
Speaker 1: the most viable option, the easiest path here?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the one, the path that is going
Speaker 2: to be the most permanent is to do something with
Speaker 2: Issue five. That way, regardless of who the mayor is,
Speaker 2: regardless of who the police chief is, they're going to
Speaker 2: have that protection. That's what ultimately needs to be done.
Speaker 2: It's going to be a heavy lift. We'll see how
Speaker 2: it works out, but that's ultimately what needs to be
Speaker 2: done if the people in this city want to have
Speaker 2: a police chief that can make decisions based off of
Speaker 2: safety not politics.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, an issue five. I mean it was sold
Speaker 1: to us as an accountability measure, and I believe it
Speaker 1: was your predecessor way back in the day FP president
Speaker 1: Keith Fangman, who said it would do just what it's
Speaker 1: doing today. I mean that was back in two thousand,
Speaker 1: I believe two thousand and one and two somewhere around there.
Speaker 1: So twenty five years later, a quarter century later, he
Speaker 1: was absolutely right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, we all all predicted
Speaker 2: that this was going to happen, and well here we
Speaker 2: are ken the department.
Speaker 1: I think we're still one hundred and fifty officers short.
Speaker 1: Has that number changed? It all? Correct me on that
Speaker 1: one if I'm wrong. But I mean, you got a
Speaker 1: lame duck chief, You've got a chief and interim, You've
Speaker 1: got morale issues, you got recruitment issues. This can't be
Speaker 1: helping retain or attract officers.
Speaker 2: No, it's not. You still have officers that are that
Speaker 2: are leaving every day. That just said I've had enough,
Speaker 2: I've got my twenty five years and I'm gonna leave.
Speaker 2: I'm not staying and do an extra We are still
Speaker 2: we just didn't just graduate a class of fifty four,
Speaker 2: So that's certainly is help. But in the end, like
Speaker 2: I said, every week we have more people leaving, so
Speaker 2: it certainly continues to be a challenge. We've got a
Speaker 2: class that's supposed to start the end of April, but
Speaker 2: it's still we're going to be significantly impacted by personnel
Speaker 2: shortage for years to come.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Kaji's attorney said, I looked at her jacket.
Speaker 1: She's thirty five years on the job, and she hasn't
Speaker 1: had a significant negative performance review in thirty five years,
Speaker 1: And that just further under reminds us. Are they just
Speaker 1: sitting back I know you probably haven't talked to her
Speaker 1: counsel or her, but are they just sitting back on and going, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna wind up settling and the city is
Speaker 1: going to have to pay all of a lot of money.
Speaker 2: That's what's going to happen, right, Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 2: that's ultimately what's going to happen because anybody's going to
Speaker 2: look at this and see that this person's had a
Speaker 2: stellar career. You know, you have no negative discipline nothing,
Speaker 2: you know, so anybody can look at you have to
Speaker 2: be an attorney to look at this and see that
Speaker 2: there's something more going on here and it has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with performance.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So if the investigation could includes they recommend termination,
Speaker 1: what options does the FOP have to challenge that outcome?
Speaker 1: Presuming you you're involved in this center, are you prepared
Speaker 1: to see that?
Speaker 2: Well, Unfortunately, because of issue five, Chief Figi's not in
Speaker 2: our bargaining in it. So any action that she would
Speaker 2: take she would be doing on her own behalf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why she's hired outside council. Right If
Speaker 1: people go, well the FOPL bit yor no, they can't
Speaker 1: because of again, because of issue five. Hopefully we can
Speaker 1: get that repeal. Is there is there a momentum within
Speaker 1: council to do that or I can imagine that share
Speaker 1: along and up want to do that, But what about council.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I've talked to some council
Speaker 2: members that seem to certainly willing to entertain it. So
Speaker 2: we'll see here in the coming months of whether this
Speaker 2: costiny traction or not.
Speaker 1: Have you spoken to FOP council and just you know,
Speaker 1: maybe what's twisted in the wind out there, and how
Speaker 1: much is this going to cost us? Do we have
Speaker 1: any idea of the scope of the millions of dollars
Speaker 1: to pay Thigi off to design a non disclosure agreement
Speaker 1: and go away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be a very very significant amount of money. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's that's on the city. They're somethings that created
Speaker 2: this mess. You know. I just hope whatever whatever agreement,
Speaker 2: if they do come to one that both sides can
Speaker 2: live with and we can move on, because that's ultimately
Speaker 2: what this police department needs.
Speaker 1: I know. Well, it depends what crime numbers you look
Speaker 1: at right now. We've had a very very cold winter,
Speaker 1: for sure, it tends to scare away the street riff
Speaker 1: raff if you will. But we had high profile shooting
Speaker 1: on New Year's Day of that young girl. We've had
Speaker 1: a streak of homicides and the l like too. I
Speaker 1: didn't look today where we're pacing. But again, if we
Speaker 1: start to see another uptick this summer this spring as
Speaker 1: the weather warms up and people go outside and hang out,
Speaker 1: and you know we're gonna have what a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks away from the time change, we always see a
Speaker 1: ruot rising crime alongside that too. If the numbers are
Speaker 1: where they were this time last year or even higher,
Speaker 1: what does that say about this decision to get rid
Speaker 1: of Thiji. I mean, it's not an indictment of Adam
Speaker 1: Henney at all. But are we in a better place
Speaker 1: with Adam Henny than were Terry?
Speaker 2: And that's the question. You know, I don't know what
Speaker 2: the crime stats are going to show up to see
Speaker 2: what kind of impact changes that he has made have
Speaker 2: on crime. We'll see hopefully they're positive ones. But I mean, ultimately,
Speaker 2: you can't you can't blame Chief Figi and you certainly
Speaker 2: can't blame Chief Henny, Yeah, for the problems with crime.
Speaker 2: What you can do is blame the people in society
Speaker 2: that don't know how to behave that that don't value life,
Speaker 2: that decide where we're just going to pick up a
Speaker 2: gun to shoot somebody because you said something mean to me.
Speaker 2: Until any of that changes for the better, we're going
Speaker 2: to likely see some of the exact same things regardless
Speaker 2: of who's in charge of the Police Department.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the Bengals, isn't it canon that
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter with the head coaches. You can pick
Speaker 1: back George Alis or the second coming of Jag or
Speaker 1: Hoover in your case. And if your hands are tied
Speaker 1: by the administration and it's all political, you really don't
Speaker 1: have any chance here, No.
Speaker 2: Without a doubt. And if you remember, I think the
Speaker 2: last press conference that Chief Fiji did, some of her
Speaker 2: closing remarks, we're talking about how the expectation is for
Speaker 2: Since Saint police officers to go out and enforce low
Speaker 2: level crimes. That way we can make this city a
Speaker 2: safer place. And then two days later she's on administrative leaf.
Speaker 2: So I know there's certainly a good group of officers
Speaker 2: that certainly believe that this was a direct result of
Speaker 2: coming out and saying we're going to start enforcing low
Speaker 2: level walls that maybe we haven't enforced in the past,
Speaker 2: and that was something that city hauled didn't like, because
Speaker 2: we're going to have officers go out and be proactive
Speaker 2: and try to reduce crime. Yeah, well there's a copy
Speaker 2: punch for that. And of course now she's on administrative leaf.
Speaker 1: Now finally, Ken Cober, I won't keep you longer. What
Speaker 1: do you think this wraps up? I mean, how much
Speaker 1: longer can they keep extending? It's a third time to
Speaker 1: extended this deal with the law firm investigating why they
Speaker 1: fired Fiji back in October? Is this going to go
Speaker 1: six months and a year? Do they just simply want
Speaker 1: to drag this out till we forget help me out here.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I was surprised myself when I heard
Speaker 2: yesterday that they ended this. You know, I guess from
Speaker 2: her perspective, you're being paid yo to sit at home.
Speaker 2: But I also understand it's like, look, she wants some
Speaker 2: finality to this. I want to let's move on. Let's
Speaker 2: see what's going to happen. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: know how long they drag it out. But every month
Speaker 2: that they drag it out, they're costing the taxpayers more
Speaker 2: and more money, right, and it's just an irresponsible thing
Speaker 2: to do. But at this point it's it's certainly not surprising.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. Maybe reparations will fix.
Speaker 2: This, you never know. Maybe maybe No, that's the chiefs
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: I'll get into that a little bit later on. That
Speaker 1: was a proposal from jan Deshellaman cured. I'll try to
Speaker 1: get her on the show next week if she wants
Speaker 1: five million reparations for the way people have colored retreated
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati. Legitimate concern for sure, because it's true, but
Speaker 1: there's reparations to fix things. You can make a case
Speaker 1: it makes it worse. We'll get that a little bit
Speaker 1: later on in the show. Ken Cober, President the FOP,
Speaker 1: thanks for jumping on this morning, brother, Be well and
Speaker 1: have a great weekend.
Speaker 2: Thanks you, Misch. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, Ken, And a lot of questions
Speaker 1: if you're a city taxpayer, going, yeah, well, what about
Speaker 1: five months to figure this out? Clearly they fired her,
Speaker 1: got rid of her, put her and leave whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and we'll try to find something. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: she did in nineteen eighty three, she tore off a
Speaker 1: mattress tags that don't remove this tag on her pedalty
Speaker 1: the law that you're fired. I thought it's gonna come
Speaker 1: down to Scott's Loan show, News on the way in
Speaker 1: just minutes and Will Gantz, our guy from ABC. We've
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Speaker 1: I should say, and we also have a reboot of
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Speaker 1: years I believe to bring this thing back. We'll find
Speaker 1: out what took so long, or'll find out why we're
Speaker 1: bringing it back from Will. He's next after news on
Speaker 1: seven hundred WLW Scott Slunsha