1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Cincinnati sports station. 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 2: Here we go. 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 3: It's five minutes after four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moeger, 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 3: thank you so much for listening today. We're gonna go 5 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 3: and chat with an expert. There's lots of hundred green 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 3: conjecture out there. Let's talk with a doctor about his elbow. 7 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 3: We'll do that with our guy, doctor John Slaughter from 8 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 3: Ortho Cincy in fifteen minutes. FC Cincinnati is coming off 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 3: a frustrating performance against Minnesota the other night. A key 10 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: mistake leads to a goal on a free kick, A 11 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 3: whole bunch of scoring opportunities go by the wayside. The 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 3: Orange and Blue back at home on Saturday for a 13 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 3: tilt against Toronto. A jig Ziven has the call Apple 14 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 3: TV and always kind enough to join us whenever we ask. 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 3: It is awesome to have you, Jake. 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 4: How are you no? 17 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 5: Doing great? 18 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 6: It's nice to be with you for the first time 19 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 6: in twenty twenty six. 20 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 5: Can't wait to get to Cincinnati this weekend. 21 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's awesome to have you as always. We 22 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 3: love having you. What have you What have you seen 23 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 3: from the Orange and Blue? Let's focus on the two 24 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: MLS specific matches. The win at home over Atlanta. The 25 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 3: lost to Minnesota a frustrating night because they had their 26 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 3: scoring chances. Your takeaways from the first two games or what. 27 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think the team needs a vander right to 28 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 6: be at its best. That's that's an obvious thing. He's 29 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 6: one of the best players in the league. Yeah, they 30 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 6: had chances against Minnesota. Drake Calendar had a good game. 31 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 6: But even you know, looking at the kind of the 32 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,919 Speaker 6: advanced analytics, the expected goals number, which is a staaten 33 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 6: in soccer, used to try to describe kind of a 34 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 6: quality of. 35 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 5: Chances of the team creates threat a game. 36 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 6: It was pretty low. It was just about one expected goal. 37 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 6: Minnesota was close to three. That probably watching the game, 38 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 6: I was surprised it was that big of a discrepancy. 39 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 6: But in the end it probably accurately describes Cincinnati kind 40 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 6: of needing a vander out. There need that magic man 41 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 6: to help create to find that moment. And I think 42 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 6: this club has been so used to playing games like 43 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 6: this over the past several seasons. They're tight games, they 44 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 6: keep it close. 45 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 4: It's a one goal game. 46 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 6: And whether it was Lucho Acasta several years ago or 47 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 6: vander last year and now eventually into this year when 48 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 6: he comes back, they have that match winner and they're 49 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 6: the ones who win the game one nil. Without Evander, 50 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 6: it felt like that was lacking for Cincinnati. Minnesota found 51 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 6: the goal and they lost. I agree with you that 52 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 6: you got to look at the MLS games the. 53 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 5: CONCACAFT Champions Cup. 54 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 6: That was an opponent that was just extremely outmatched by Cincinnati. 55 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 6: Nice score lines, couldn't get confidence, not anything to extrapolate 56 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 6: on going forward, I think, but right now, right that 57 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 6: the team I think has got to kind of figure 58 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 6: out if Evander are just kind of how to do 59 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 6: it without Evander. It doesn't sound like the injury is serious, 60 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 6: which is great, but there's gonna be times throughout this 61 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 6: year they're gonna have to play without him. They're gonna 62 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 6: have to figure out a way to be threatening about 63 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 6: one of the best players in the league. 64 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: Jake Gzibvn is with us some Apple TV. By the way, 65 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: I may have mentioned before, I think I said that 66 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: the game was going to be on Saturday. Is actually 67 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: a Sunday game this week as a nicety Cincinnati Sunday night. Yeah, 68 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 3: so uhay Saturday night soccer. A little bit of the 69 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 3: national spotlight on the Orange and Blue as they host Toronto. 70 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: You mentioned, you know, the other guys, right, the scoring 71 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 3: without a Vander, and that's that's been a theme throughout 72 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: the course of the offseason. Obviously you want him, and 73 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 3: obviously you know we're all breathing a sigh of relief 74 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: that it feels like the injury is not that serious. 75 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: But there have been times, whether it was with Lucho 76 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 3: before that went sideways or Evander last year, where it 77 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,679 Speaker 3: felt like the offensive load was a little bit too 78 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 3: dependent on both guys, and so I do think it's 79 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: an interesting early season test, one that they frankly didn't 80 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: pass this past week, to see if they can generate 81 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: more offense just so maybe when Evander comes back, they 82 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 3: don't need him to do nearly as much heavy lifting. 83 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: Would you agree? 84 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 6: Absolutely? And I think there, you know, I get to 85 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 6: send and we were there a lot at the end 86 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 6: of last year, and I have to send. 87 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 5: There's some frustration in the. 88 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 6: Fan base and the support group over you know, maybe 89 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 6: this team not taking another step of being this kind 90 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 6: of dominant team that can win. 91 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 5: Games three nil, four nail. 92 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 6: And I was surprised because, look, no team has had 93 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 6: more success in the regular season the last three years 94 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 6: combined than FC Cincinnati. They've won a Supporter Shield, they 95 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 6: have been at the top of the Eastern Conference every year. Yes, 96 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 6: it's gotten into the playoffs and they haven't quite gotten 97 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 6: over that hill. Same thing in the Open Cup in 98 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 6: twenty twenty three when they went on a great run. 99 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 6: But still it has been a team that has been 100 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 6: the most exemplary week to week consistent success as far 101 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,799 Speaker 6: as winning games of any team. 102 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 5: In the league over the past three years. 103 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 6: But it still felt like there's kind of this anxiety 104 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 6: of taking the next step. And I think what your 105 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 6: question kind of hits on that, because it does feel 106 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 6: like the way that they have gotten wins, that they've 107 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 6: even gotten goals is through kind of individual moments of 108 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 6: brilliance from really special play payers in this game, that 109 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 6: is frequently the difference. But it also means if you 110 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 6: get to the playoffs and your main guy isn't doing it, 111 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 6: which we saw last year with Evander in the playoffs, 112 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 6: what's the plan How do you get wins if Evander's 113 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 6: not going to create one or two special moments of 114 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 6: the game to score goals. So absolutely, I think it's 115 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 6: a big question for Esie Cincinnati and for Pat Noonan. 116 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 6: That being said, you got to assume this team at 117 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 6: its best is going to have a Vander on the field, right, 118 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 6: And so I think when you're talking about Evander being 119 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 6: on the field, it's how do him and Kevin Dank 120 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 6: creating a connection communially? 121 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 5: See it? Last year, right, they East. 122 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 6: Got their goals, but rarely was it Evander two Denk 123 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 6: And that's something Their connection, their ability to play together 124 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 6: I think has got to be kind of priority number 125 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 6: one for Esse Cincinnati throughout this season. 126 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting because I felt like 127 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 3: last season they're both remarkable individual players, but I felt 128 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: like each guy was at times last year. And this 129 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: is no knock on either one of them individually, but 130 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 3: it fell at times last year like both were on 131 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 3: an island. 132 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 6: Yes, I agree, I agree, And and look, it's you know, 133 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 6: that can be be hard. It is a game where 134 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 6: sometimes two great players don't always mesh in their skill 135 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 6: sets and the way they see the game in the 136 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 6: way they want to play the game. 137 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 4: Sometimes it works great, and players seem. 138 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 6: To have this kind of, uh you know, kind of 139 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 6: telepathic connection with each other out of nowhere and they 140 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 6: gel immediately if aner kevint they don't. They didn't have 141 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 6: that right like, they don't have that innately. It didn't 142 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 6: happen right away, but as something that can still come 143 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 6: with time, and you would think in year two with 144 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 6: a full preseason, and they had a full preseason last 145 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 6: year for the most part as well, you know that 146 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 6: that Pat Newton and the coaching staff can can get 147 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 6: that out of them, and uh, that's got to be 148 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 6: the hope, right And I think that is kind of 149 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 6: Sinnati's pass to getting over that hill, is getting these 150 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 6: two guys to really connect better on the field and 151 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 6: then they become a team that can really overwhelm everybody 152 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 6: because I think defensively there's not a worry even with 153 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 6: Matt and the Osgas still working his way back from injury. 154 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 6: You know, they meet Matt Ney Osga, I think to 155 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 6: be at his to be at their best, they need 156 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 6: Matt in the OSGA. But it's still a very good 157 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 6: defensive team even without him. And I think it's about 158 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 6: figuring out that attack and getting everybody connected and on 159 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 6: the same page. 160 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 3: Very early on. But how do you break down the 161 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: Eastern Conference? 162 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Miami. 163 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 6: It's the favorites, right, even though they lost opening week 164 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 6: in the Coliseum and then they were down two mil 165 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 6: at halftime in Orlando. 166 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 5: We were doing that game last week. 167 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 4: It was Sunday Night soccer. 168 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 5: Last week. 169 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 6: They're four goals in the second half at their rivals. 170 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 6: Messy's celebrating into their supporters section, asking the Orlando bench 171 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 6: if they want his autographs. 172 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 4: I mean, they just flipped. 173 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 6: That switch at halftime, and you're like, yep, okay, this 174 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 6: team is the favorites. It's what they thought. It's whereverybody 175 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 6: thought they would be with all the talent they have, 176 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 6: So for sure they're they're there to be the favorites. 177 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 6: And then Cincinnati have to be right there behind them. Philadelphia, 178 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 6: last your Supporter Shield winners have gotten up to a 179 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 6: rough start, so there's questions whether. 180 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 4: They can do it again. 181 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 5: Surprise to the East or the New York Red Bulls. 182 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 6: This young team that have won two games with three 183 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 6: seventeen year olds or younger in the starting eleven, a 184 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 6: sixteen year old in the starting eleven. They're scoring goals, 185 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 6: they're assisting, they're combining together. It's been incredibly impressive. They're 186 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 6: probably the story of the year, but it's Miami is 187 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 6: going to be the favorite, or Nashville in there as well. 188 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 6: That they added Chris Espinos in the offseason, so they 189 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 6: got even better. 190 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 5: A team that was good last year, but it's going 191 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 5: to be that Miami. 192 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 6: Homp And look, Cincinnati knows all about that, right, I 193 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 6: mean that team that knocked them out of the playoffs 194 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 6: last year at home in pretty emphatic fashion. It's a 195 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 6: team that knocked them out of the US Open Cup 196 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 6: at home in twenty twenty three, and it's a team 197 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 6: that everybody gunning for. 198 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: They're the defending champs and they have. 199 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 5: The best player the world, and that you know that 200 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 5: they're they're at. 201 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 6: US as the favorite in the conference is not changing 202 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 6: anytime soon. 203 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 3: No question about that. Jake Sivens Sunday Night Soccer on 204 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 3: Apple TV. So you'll be here all weekend. Enjoy your 205 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 3: stay in the Queen City and we will talk to 206 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 3: you again. Soo man, thanks so much. 207 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 4: Can't wait anytime, mom, cheers, You're the best. 208 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 3: Jakeziven Apple TV, seven o'clock Sunday Night, FC Cincinnati and 209 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 3: Toronto U. Hunter Green is going to be meeting with 210 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: doctors about his elbow stiffness. We're going to talk with 211 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 3: a doctor about Hunter Green's elbow stiffness next on ESPN 212 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 3: fifteen thirty. 213 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the. 214 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 7: UC Health Traffic Center at the UC Gardner Neuroscience Institute. 215 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 7: The multiple sclerosis experts deliver personalized treatments, groundbreaking research, and 216 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 7: integrated support services. Earn more at ucehealth dot com. There 217 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 7: is still an ex at westbound US fifty that is 218 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 7: on the entrance ramp from southbound seventy one. On northbound 219 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 7: seventy one, traffic is slow from Smith Edwards to Ronald 220 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 7: Reagan Highway right now a ten minute delay. I'm at 221 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 7: ezelic with traffic. 222 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 3: This report is let's talk to a medical expert about 223 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: Hunter Green. We do this on a regular basis, chatting 224 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 3: with the experts from Ortho Sincy Orthopedics and Sports Medicine. 225 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: The great thing about Ortho Sincy is they have specialists, 226 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: locations and services all over the tri State. This includes 227 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: walk in orthopedic urgent care at five locations with extended 228 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 3: evening and weekend hours in Edgewood and Anderson. Learn more 229 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 3: at Orthosinc. Dot com. That's ortho ci ncy dot com. 230 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 3: Doctor Jonathan Slaughter from Ortho Sincy is with us. We're 231 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 3: talking about Hunter Green and elbow stiffness. What comes to 232 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: mind when I say elbow stiffness. 233 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 8: Yeah, elbow stiffness, especially an overhead thrower, especially this day 234 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 8: and night when we're getting so much talk with Tommy 235 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 8: John and the unor collateral ligament or the UCL, that's 236 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 8: always your first thought. Oh great, elbow soreness and a thrower, 237 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 8: especially something that's already had a Tommy John, that's your 238 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 8: first concern is UCL. Okay, But there's so many things 239 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 8: in the elbow being a complex joint, especially with the 240 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 8: forces that sees with throwing, that can cause pain, swelling, stiffness. 241 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 8: So you start thinking, like you said, bone spurs, where 242 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 8: you can get extension, valgus, extension, overload, where you get 243 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 8: abnormal stress, Where you get bone spurs that build that 244 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 8: can pre event stiffness, pain, pinching, ulner collateral ligament. You 245 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 8: can get the golfer's elbow or the common flexor tendon 246 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 8: that attaches over the owner. 247 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 4: Collateral ligament can get strained. 248 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 8: You can get tennis elbow, which is your wrist and 249 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 8: finger extensors, the common extensor tendon. There's many things that 250 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,119 Speaker 8: you can look in that can cause pain, swellowing, stiffness. 251 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: He says, the UCL is okay, the scans are clean. 252 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 3: Yet he's going to go see a couple of different doctors. 253 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 3: Could could a scan really be clean? And which would 254 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 3: suggest things are going to be okay? There's nothing really 255 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 3: structurally wrong here, but he's still dealing with discomfort. How 256 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 3: do those two things mesh? 257 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, So when he says the UCL is okay, I 258 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 8: am assuming he's referring to his prior MRI that he had, 259 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 8: because I have not heard he had us had an 260 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 8: MRI yet after this recent announcement of stiffness. So I 261 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 8: would imagine when he was having the pain at the 262 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 8: end of last season, they got the MRI then and 263 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 8: the ligament was intact. It wasn't showing any tear, it 264 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 8: wasn't showing fluid signal changes within the ligament, it wasn't 265 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 8: showing fluid getting underneath the ligament where it attaches to 266 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 8: the bone. So I'm guessing that scan the ligament looked fine, intact, 267 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 8: and you can still get There are people we see 268 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 8: all the time with pain swelling that of any joint 269 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 8: we can get in the MRI doesn't show anything specific, 270 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 8: but a lot of times you will see inflammation or 271 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 8: other changes elsewhere. 272 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 3: Opening Day is three weeks from Thursday. Should I assume 273 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: that Hunter Green will not be on the mound for 274 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 3: that game? 275 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 8: My assumption, again, all this is assumption without knowing exactly 276 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 8: where his pain is and seeing things. My assumption is 277 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 8: I'd be surprised if he's active for opening Day, just 278 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 8: because he had this similar pain and stiffness at then 279 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 8: the last season. I think it was going to be 280 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 8: a little bit after Opening Day before he hit the active. 281 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 3: He said he had an injection right before spring training. 282 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 3: What may have that. 283 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 4: Involved depends on what they were targeting. 284 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 8: If they were targeting something like extension or valgus extension, overload, 285 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 8: or impingement with the bone spurs, it could have been 286 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 8: an intra articular steroid injection or as steroids into the 287 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 8: joint to try to calm the inflammation down. If it 288 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 8: was maybe some inflammation in one of the tendons, not 289 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 8: the UCL but one of the tendons, it could have 290 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 8: been a PRP or plasma rich protein to try to 291 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 8: get that to heel. 292 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: When you hear that he talks about you know, last 293 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 3: year I felt discomfort, but I pushed through. From a 294 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: pure baseball perspective, great, right, they were trying to make 295 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 3: the postseason. But from a medical perspective, what things come 296 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: to mind when you hear him refer to pain that 297 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 3: he pitched through late last. 298 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 8: Season, especially an overhead thrower. If it's pain on the 299 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 8: inside of the elbow where the ucl is, you're always 300 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 8: worried or great, if you're just having some light sprain, 301 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 8: just very partial tearing, but. 302 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 4: The ligaments, okay, well it's weakend. 303 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 8: If you're pushing through, could you then turn that into 304 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 8: something that more severe and more significant tear? So from 305 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 8: a medical perspective, you're always really thinking could you make 306 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 8: it worse? But I'm sure they were on top of them. 307 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 8: Got scans looked okay, Everything looked okay. It's likely some 308 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 8: impingement or something like that you can push through without 309 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 8: causing more damage. 310 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: Should I fear the worst case? And what is the 311 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 3: worst case? Here? 312 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 8: Worst case would be the ucl as torn? Right now, 313 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 8: I would be optimistic and hopeful. It's not worth getting well. 314 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 8: As my mother in law always tells, me, don't trouble, trouble. 315 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 8: In other words, until it's here, don't don't fret about it. 316 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 8: And so the worst to me would be it would 317 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 8: be a second Tommy John required if it's a UCL 318 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 8: and outcomes with those are much more guarded. I mean, 319 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 8: he could come back, but that would be the worst 320 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 8: case scenario. But in the words of Jill and Pelsary, 321 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 8: don't trouble, trouble very nice. 322 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 3: Sorry, Jill gets a shout out. Worst case is often 323 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 3: not the most likely case. So I'm gonna try to 324 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 3: take your advice. I'm gonna try to take your mother 325 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 3: in law's advice. It's not gonna work because I'm gonna 326 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: fret over this, and I think most Reds fans are, 327 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 3: but we'll be paying attention. He is going to have 328 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: two consultations with doctors. Put yourself in the exam room. 329 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 3: Give me an idea of the things you're looking at. 330 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 3: Looking for. 331 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 8: One where the pain is, especially with his motion when 332 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 8: he's getting the pain and his motion. And then certain 333 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 8: test maneuvers where we're really stressing that honor collateral ligament 334 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 8: is that lighten it up. Then I would we would 335 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 8: throw an ultrasound on it and measure how much his 336 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 8: joint is giving way to stress. Every joint gives some, 337 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 8: but as he lacks, is he giving too much? 338 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 4: That's what would be really focusing and. 339 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 3: On awesome insight. Making a bit of a house call, 340 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: answering our call last second. Appreciate the time, Doctor. 341 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 4: Slaughter, thanks so much always, Mom. 342 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 3: That guy's the best doctor. Jonathan Slaughter from Ortho Sinsey. 343 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: I say this every single week because it's true. The 344 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 3: great thing about Ortho Sinsey is they have specialists and 345 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 3: locations all over the tri State, including walkin orthopedic urgent 346 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: care weekdays from nine am to nine pm and on 347 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 3: Saturdays from nine am to one pm at both Edgewood 348 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 3: and Anderson. It's easy because you do not need an appointment, 349 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 3: and it's definitely cheaper than going to an er. Whenever 350 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,959 Speaker 3: you have an urgent orthopedic injury. Got Orthosinc dot com. 351 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 3: That's Ortho ci ncy dot com. What a difference two 352 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: years makes. 353 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: Next Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic. 354 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 7: From the UC Health Traffic Center at the UC Gardner 355 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 7: Neuroscience Institute. The Multiple Sclerosis experts deliver personalized treatments, groundbreaking 356 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 7: research and Integrated support Services earn more at UCHealth dot com. 357 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 7: Northbound seventy one seventy five, the left two lanes are 358 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 7: blocked from an accident between Buttermilk Pike and Dixie Highway 359 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 7: with a thirty minute delay back from two seventy five 360 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 7: in Erlanger. Also an injury accident Glendale Milford Road at 361 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 7: Wayne Avenue. I'm at eazelic with traffic. 362 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: This report. A couple of quick programming notes. We've got 363 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: the Mark Pope Radio Show tonight at six o'clock on 364 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 3: ESPN fifteen thirty. The Kentucky Wildcats last night. I'm not 365 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 3: sure that lost did anything to hurt their tournament chances. 366 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 3: It probably had some impact on their seating, I guess, 367 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 3: But I think what last night was was a reminder 368 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 3: of just how wholly unreliable Mark Pope's team is. NKU 369 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 3: basketball Tonight in the Horizon League Tournament, the Norris take 370 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: on Oakland as the seven seed. That game tips off 371 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 3: at seven o'clock. You'll hear it live on Fox Sports 372 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: thirteen to sixty. Pregame is gonna be at six thirty. 373 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 3: If you're a UC fan, there's lots of games to 374 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 3: pay attention to tonight. Now the Bearcats win, which is great, 375 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: but it wasn't night last night where a lot of 376 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 3: bubble teams helped their chances. And I think there were 377 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: more than anything teams that at least to this point 378 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 3: put themselves in the tournament. Maybe didn't make themselves locks, 379 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 3: but like UCLA winning last night, A and M's went 380 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 3: over Kentucky, TCU's road win against Texas Tech, I felt 381 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 3: like TCU was in anyway. I feel like they're now 382 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: safely in VCU winning, Virginia Tech winning. There are some 383 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 3: games worth paying attention to Tonight Ohio State and Penn State. 384 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: Buck guys took a major step toward the tournament with 385 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: that home win over Purdue. On Sunday, they're on the 386 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 3: road against the Nitney Lions. New Mexico is worth paying 387 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 3: attention to. One of those bubble teams. And I'm not 388 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 3: I'm not using any one bracketologists first four out, next 389 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 3: four out. I'm just these are teams that are generally 390 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: assumed to be vying for those remaining spots. By the way, 391 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 3: first time i think I've ever used the word vying 392 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: on this show. New Mexico takes on Colorado State, tonight Indiana. 393 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 3: Indiana cannot afford a lost to Minnesota to go Golden Gophers. Sorry, 394 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: Hoosiers fans. Usc has lost five consecutive games. They've got 395 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 3: to stop their slide. They take on Washington tonight. Cal 396 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 3: coming off a bad loss to a very shaky Pittsburgh team, 397 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 3: has a game against Georgia Tech tonight. So some games 398 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 3: worth paying attention to. Above and beyond Cincinnati's win last night. 399 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 3: I thought last night was really cool for Dayda Thomas. 400 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 3: And it was cool for Dayda Thomas because a guy 401 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 3: who's at anyone school for three years that feels like forever, 402 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 3: and so relative to a lot of his teammates, it 403 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 3: feels like Dayda Thomas has been here since Mick Crodin 404 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 3: was the coach. But if you go back two years 405 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 3: ago and be honest with me, okay, it was Dayda 406 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 3: Thomas and Gisel James, and frankly, for a lot of us, 407 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 3: it was Dayda Thomas or GIZZL James. And you would 408 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 3: hear audible groans Dad Day's first season when Wes would 409 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 3: put him in the game and replace Gigsel j or 410 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 3: audible groans. When you know people talked about day Days 411 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 3: starting and Jizsel coming off the bench. I'm not sure 412 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 3: there's a lot of folks who really wanted Wes to 413 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 3: keep Dayda Thomas after that first season, and last night 414 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 3: fans were chanting his name. He's now an indispensable member 415 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 3: of this team. He's been a great Bearcat and like 416 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: not an all time great bear Cat. But Wes Miller 417 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 3: has had a lot of really good things about Dada Thomas, 418 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 3: And say what you want about the way the last 419 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 3: three years have unfolded. Can you imagine where you see 420 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 3: basketball would be right now without Dayda A Thomas. So 421 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 3: I just if you go back two years ago, like 422 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 3: you would hear it man like Dada's in day Day's 423 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 3: replacing Gigsel? What are we doing here? Good for Dayda 424 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 3: Thomas last night? Coming up in the next hour, Jeff 425 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 3: Carr locked on Red's on Hunter Green and a few 426 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 3: spring training storylines now that we're midway through, and a 427 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 3: Bengals free agency overview with James Rapeae, both of those 428 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 3: coming up in the five o'clock hour. We're gonna talk 429 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: with the guy who has written my favorite sports book 430 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 3: of the year. Next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports. 431 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic from. 432 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 7: The UC Health Traffic Center at the UC Gardner Neuroscience Institute. 433 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 7: The Multiple Sclerosis Experts deliver personalized treatments, groundbreaking research, and 434 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 7: integrated support services. Earn more at UCHealth dot com. Northbound 435 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 7: seventy one seventy five, the left two lanes are blocked 436 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 7: from an accident between Buttermilk Pike and Dixie Highway. Up 437 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 7: to an hour's worth of delays. Right now back from 438 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 7: Burlington Pike and westbound State Route one twenty nine accident 439 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 7: at Hampshire Drive. I'm at exelic with traffic this ree. 440 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 3: We'll talk Hunter Green's injury and its impact on the 441 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 3: red starting rotation with our guy Jeff Carr coming up 442 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 3: at five oh five, and a little bit later on 443 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 3: a Bengals free agency overview with our man James Erpeen. 444 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 3: All that coming up in the five o'clock hour. I 445 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 3: am not necessarily a Larry Bird fan. As a Knicks fan, 446 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 3: I kind of can't be. And I'm not an Indiana 447 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: State basketball fan, and I'm not old enough to remember 448 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 3: the nineteen seventy nine NCAA Tournament title game between Indiana 449 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 3: State and Michigan State, and yet the best sports book 450 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: I have read so far this year is about those 451 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 3: two things. It's written by Keith O'Brien, who we've had 452 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 3: in the show before because he wrote a book about 453 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 3: Pete Rose called Charlie Hustle, which I think is the 454 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: best Pete Rose book ever written. Keith's latest project is 455 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 3: called Heartland, A Forgotten Place and Impossible Dream and the 456 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 3: Miracle of Larry Bird. Keith is going to be in 457 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: town for two different events coming up this weekend, so 458 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 3: he's going to be discussing the book, signing the book, 459 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: and a great chance to meet one of the best 460 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: sports book authors. We have Friday at the Fort Thomas 461 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 3: Branch of the Campbell County Public Library. That's going to 462 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: be at seven o'clock, and then on Saturday at Joseph 463 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 3: Beth Bookseller's five pm. Keithob dot com to get more 464 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 3: from Keith O'Brien is with us. Keith, I love this book, 465 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 3: Thanks for the time. How are you. 466 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 5: I'm great, No, thanks for having me back again. 467 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 4: Great to be with. 468 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 3: You, great to be great to have you. Why this 469 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 3: project right? Because there are a few sports figures who 470 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: have been written about and talked about as much as 471 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 3: Larry Bird. And so my first takeaway when I found 472 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 3: out about the project was, all right, Keith has written 473 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 3: a book about Larry Bird, and he's obviously the central figure, 474 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 3: but it goes beyond that. 475 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: Why this project, Well, I just felt like we've been 476 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 2: telling the Larry Birds story the wrong way all these years. 477 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: You know, every time someone comes to this story, they 478 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 2: always end up doing the Bird Magic thing, the Larry 479 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: Bird Magic Johnson story. And you know, I get it. 480 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: I understand why you would tell the story that way. 481 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: Of course, Bird and Magic are going to play against 482 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: each other in March nineteen seventy nine in that most 483 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 2: watched television basketball game you just mentioned, and then they're 484 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: going to go on to define and save the NBA 485 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties. 486 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 5: So I do get it. 487 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 2: But when you tell the story that way, you end 488 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 2: up looting one of the great underdog stories of all time, 489 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: and that is the story of the rise of Larry 490 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 2: Bird and rural Indiana in the nineteen seventies and this 491 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 2: enduring miracle of his nineteen seventy nine Indiana State team. 492 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 2: And so what I wanted to do here is really 493 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 2: just almost tilt the camera in a different direction. You know, 494 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 2: come at this story from a different perspective, really focus 495 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: on Indiana in the nineteen seventies, and when you do that, 496 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: what you really have is an entirely different story. 497 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 3: I think what I enjoyed more than anything were the 498 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 3: conversations you had with sports information directors and Larry's former 499 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 3: Indiana State teammates. Who do who do? Who did you 500 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 3: enjoy talking with most? 501 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, I mean you know so many people. 502 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 2: I mean you you get it as as a man 503 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 2: who works in broadcasts and interviews people. I mean, you've 504 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 2: interviewed so many people. 505 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 4: You love them all. 506 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: You know, there are incredible characters around Larry in the 507 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. Some of these people shape him, create him. 508 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 2: Others of them frankly save him. You know, I do 509 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 2: think the story of his head coach in nineteen seventy 510 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 2: nine is an untold story, and he's an unsung hero. 511 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 2: I know, Bill Hodges, now in his eighties, still alive, 512 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 2: you know, really saves Larry Bird in nineteen seventy five, 513 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 2: and a moment when Larry is about to disappear forever 514 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 2: where people have completely forgotten about him. It is Bill Hodges, 515 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 2: down on his luck, assistant coach at Indiana State, on 516 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: his third job in three years, you know, goes down 517 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: to French Lick in search of Larry Bird. 518 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 5: And these, you know, two men are very similar. 519 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 3: You know. 520 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 5: Bill Hodges is from rural Indiana. He's from another small town, Zionsville, Indiana. 521 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: He knows what flag to be poor and overlooked, just 522 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: like Larry Bird. 523 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 5: They really do connect. 524 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 2: And it's Bill Hodges who coaxes Larry to come back 525 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: to college, tools them back from the brink. And I 526 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 2: do think mo in some alternative universe, you know, were 527 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: it not for Bill Hodges, we would never have known 528 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 2: Larry Bird's name. 529 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 3: How much of this story, the recruitment of Larry Bird, 530 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 3: his decision to originally attend Indiana, the story of those 531 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 3: Indiana State teams and how they were built, how close 532 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 3: they came to the NCAA Tournament in the years prior 533 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 3: to nineteen seventy nine. How much of all of this 534 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 3: is completely unrecognizable compared to what we see when we 535 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 3: watch college basketball in twenty twenty six. 536 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 5: I mean almost all of it. I mean, let's start 537 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 5: with the basics you. 538 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: Know, in twenty twenty six, can a great talent like 539 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: Larry Bird slip through the cracks and end up at 540 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: a smaller program. Yes, of course that can still happen, 541 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 2: but we're to happen today. 542 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 5: You know, it would be everything would be different afterwards. 543 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 5: You know, Larry Bird gets the Indiana State and proves 544 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 5: right away that he is a legitimate star. 545 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 2: You know, in that first season he plays there, he 546 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 2: averages thirty points a game. Well, I mean, in today's game, 547 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: Larry Bird's not sticking around at Indiana State anymore because 548 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: you know, Indiana State today has an nil budget of 549 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 2: about three hundred thousand dollars. To put that in perspective 550 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: for listeners, you know, Cooper Flag last year was reportedly 551 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: paid roughly four point five million dollars. So Bird in 552 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: today's game, after one year at Indiana State would have 553 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 2: moved on to Indiana or Ohio State or Notre Dame 554 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: or Duke and gotten paid three four million dollars a year. 555 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: You know, that's just the reality of the world we're 556 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: living in. 557 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 5: And of course it was different back then. 558 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 2: And I want to be clear, like I believe personally 559 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 2: that the system we had before was wrong, you know 560 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 2: at the NCAA, and maybe your college programs profited for years, 561 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 2: for decades, off the backs of amateur college athletes, you know, 562 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 2: churning them up, eating them up alive. 563 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 5: You know often, you. 564 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: Know, many of these guys and women won't go on 565 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 2: to professional careers. But the system we have today is 566 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 2: also flawed, and you know we see it. 567 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 5: You know when we turn on the television. 568 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 3: Keith O'Brien is with us. By the way, he will 569 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: be at the Campbell County Public Library, the Fort Thomas 570 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 3: Branch on Friday at seven o'clock and then at Joseph 571 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 3: Beth right there in Hyde Park five o'clock on Saturday. 572 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 3: You can learn more at keithob dot com. The name 573 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 3: of the book is Heartland, A Forgotten Place and Impossible 574 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 3: Dream and the Miracle of Larry Bird. Another few minutes 575 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 3: with Keith O'Brien. What sort of things about Larry specifically 576 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: were you looking forward to finding out when you dove 577 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 3: into this project. 578 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 5: You know, I really. 579 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 2: Wanted to del into his early life, you know, his 580 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 2: life in french Lick, growing up there. You know, French 581 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: Lick is in Orange County, Indiana, in the nineteen seventies, 582 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: Orange County was the second poorest county in the state, 583 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 2: in a state that was one of our poorest in 584 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 2: the country. So you know, he is facing adversity after 585 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: adversity there. And you know, because of those adversities. You know, 586 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: in those early years, Larry Bird, a young Larry Bird, 587 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: wasn't dreaming of playing college basketball, wasn't dreaming of playing 588 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 2: professional basketball. 589 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 5: Those were impossible dreams. There was no sense in having 590 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 5: such dreams. 591 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: His only dream in the nineteen seventies is that maybe 592 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: he might be as good as his older brother Mark, 593 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: who you know, at that time was considered the best 594 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: shooter in Orange County fifteen feet and in and was 595 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: able to play on the varsity basketball team at Springs 596 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: Valley High School. And that's really all all that Larry 597 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: Bird wanted and and you know, it was a meager dream, 598 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 2: but it was an obtainable dream. And I just found 599 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: like that those kind of things just so fascinating and 600 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: enlightening about this this character that we think we know it's. 601 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 3: An American icon, who is now more of a rekulus 602 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 3: like you do you don't see you right about this. 603 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 3: Towards the end of the book, he doesn't make a 604 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 3: ton of public appearances. He's hard to get how I 605 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 3: don't know, can you dive into sort of how onto 606 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 3: his own how reclusive Larry Bird is these days. 607 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 2: You know, a big part of my narrative in the 608 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies is how much Larry Bird wanted to escape 609 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: the spotlight in seventy seven, seventy eight, seventy nine, when 610 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 2: the national media finally caught on to what was happening 611 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: in Tarahue, Indiana, you know, Larry recoiled from that spot like, 612 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: you know, like a spider trying to find refuge in 613 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 2: the shadows, and as a result, you know, was really 614 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: at war with the national media, you know, in the 615 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: in the final years of his college career. In a 616 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 2: lot of ways, Now in twenty twenty six, Larry has 617 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 2: finally done what he said he wanted. 618 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 5: To do fifty years ago. He has disappeared. 619 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: You know, Larry gave his last interview at the veiling 620 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 2: of the Larry Bird Museum in Tarahoe, Indiana about two 621 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: years ago, and at that unveiling that day he said 622 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 2: out loud, I think this is going to be the 623 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 2: last interview I ever give. And you know, one thing 624 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 2: I've learned about Larry Bird in the reporting for this 625 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 2: book is that you know, for better or for worse, Larry. 626 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 5: Bird is a man of his word. If he says 627 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 5: he's going to do something, he does it. 628 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 2: If he says he's not going to do something, he 629 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 2: doesn't do it. And so I think Larry Bird is 630 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 2: simply living the life that he wants to live. 631 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's more of those details in the book. Thick enough, Keith, 632 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 3: have a great stay in town this weekend Fort Thomas 633 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: Branch of the Campbell County Public Library on Friday at 634 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 3: seven o'clock and then josepheth Booksellers on Saturday at five. 635 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 3: Get more information on those events and the book keithob 636 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 3: dot com. Can you imagine a world where fifty million 637 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 3: people watch the NCAA Tournament title game? Indiana State and 638 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 3: Michigan State had that audience in nineteen seventy nine. Our 639 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 3: audience is gonna hear Jeff Carr on Red Spring training 640 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 3: and Hunter Green and what the Reds are probably gonna 641 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 3: have to do without him. Coming up next on ESPN 642 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 3: fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. 643 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 5: Jason