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Speaker 1: All right, catching up here Scots Loan seven hundred WLW Live.

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Speaker 1: You heard the voice of Stephen m Attorney from the

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Speaker 1: Finny Law Firm for Terry Thiji. She's on paid administrative

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Speaker 1: leave as chief from the City of Cincinnati, standing behind

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Speaker 1: in the civilian clothes, not speaking obviously, let the lawyer

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Speaker 1: do the talking, for she's always smart. We've heard that

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Speaker 1: Terry Thiji, a cops cop here, a long family cops

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Speaker 1: and law enforcement in Cincinnati from the West Side, was

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Speaker 1: asked to resign. She refused because there's no cause. And

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Speaker 1: on her thirty fifth anniversary of her start on the

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Speaker 1: job as a police officer, she finds out that she's

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Speaker 1: being put on paid administrative leave, meaning we're looking for reasons. Now,

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Speaker 1: we don't have reason to fire you, we're looking for reasons,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to put you on unpaid administrative leave.

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Speaker 1: So what we got right now is a good old standoff.

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Speaker 1: If she stays, she gets the authority to do her job.

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Speaker 1: If she goes, it's going to cost you and missus

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Speaker 1: tax payer millions and millions of dollars that you can

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Speaker 1: will afford. And it doesn't really solve the issue on this.

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Speaker 1: With some instant reaction is the president of the Queen

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Speaker 1: City Lodge of the FFP, that's Ken Kober, can appreciate

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Speaker 1: you jumping in this morning.

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Speaker 2: Sure, thanks you to me. Step.

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Speaker 1: Looks like the no confidence vote you had for this

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Speaker 1: administration really really stands up at this boy.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't it. Yeah. I mean they've fumbled this from the

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Speaker 2: get go. You have the chief fly across the country

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Speaker 2: only the land in Denver go to go to a

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Speaker 2: conference representing the city in the police department, only to

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Speaker 2: tell her to come home. And then I mean what

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Speaker 2: we've seen over the last five days is just absolutely

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Speaker 2: they fumbled this whole thing. It's terrible.

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Speaker 1: Well, in addition to that, the person they appointed chief, Henny,

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Speaker 1: is the interim chief now and according to sheherlong city manager,

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Speaker 1: she said he has my full support. I'm confident in

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Speaker 1: his leadership. I don't know if he's doing the next chief,

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Speaker 1: But this is the command officer who signed a citation

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Speaker 1: against the white guy in the brawl in July at

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Speaker 1: the urging of the mayor, which is purely political, not criminal.

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Speaker 1: Even though Henny wasn't on the scene. He ran the

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Speaker 1: Central Business district and that had the high spike in

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Speaker 1: crime this year. The optics of that are bad for

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Speaker 1: the it gets. It goes from bad to worse for

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Speaker 1: these guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll tell you the optics are certainly not good.

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Speaker 2: But I will say this about Colonel Henny. As you

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Speaker 2: know that whole debackle, he was doing nothing but protecting

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Speaker 2: investigators from having to do what they just said I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to do. And instead of them facing the

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Speaker 2: consequences for standing up to it, you know, he stepped

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Speaker 2: in and he protected cops, which is something that we

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Speaker 2: certainly all appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that from a cops perspective, like

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Speaker 1: he got our backs. I'm not going to let the

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Speaker 1: rank and file take the take the fall on this.

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Speaker 1: But again I don't I don't know what the ethic.

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Speaker 1: I think that's pretty unethical though, is that you're told

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Speaker 1: by the mayor to do something. It's like, that's not

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Speaker 1: how our justice system works. As much as these people

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Speaker 1: spend complaining about Donald Trump, you just did the exact

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Speaker 1: same thing that you're allegedly against. But I digress a

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Speaker 1: little bit. And the other thing too is if she

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Speaker 1: were effective as chief, why would we have so much

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Speaker 1: violent crime? I think that's The big question here is like, well,

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Speaker 1: violent crime has continue to go up. The optics are

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Speaker 1: bad on this. We have Fountain Square, had the shooting

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Speaker 1: in front of the in between. It just keeps coming

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Speaker 1: and coming and coming despite what we do. And yet

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Speaker 1: it wasn't all long ago. He said, hey, you know

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Speaker 1: things are effective. She's doing a good job. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you're effective at something, we should have less violent crime,

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Speaker 1: not more.

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Speaker 2: Well, this just proves what we know all along, and

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Speaker 2: it proves what I've been saying all along, which is

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Speaker 2: we need to keep politics out of policing. And when

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Speaker 2: you have the city manager, the mayor who over over

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Speaker 2: at city Hall, is telling her what she can and

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Speaker 2: can't do, it's proving that that's failing. You know, Chiefdiji

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Speaker 2: has the ability to be an effective police chief. Unfortunately

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Speaker 2: she's not given that ability right now, and when she's

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Speaker 2: told what to do by city Hall, she's told what

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Speaker 2: she can can't do. The end result is that this

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Speaker 2: is what we have. And this is ultimately why you know,

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Speaker 2: the rank and file voted for voting no confidence against

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Speaker 2: the mayor, because they should allow the chief independently to

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Speaker 2: do what she wants to do. And if she was

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Speaker 2: screwing it up them then vile means do something about it.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that they didn't fire their asking her

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Speaker 2: to resign says everything you need to know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this isn't her exit, this is about keeping

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Speaker 1: yours with Steve im said, So she has no desire

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Speaker 1: to go quietly. Actually she's going to go rather violently,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to cost a lot of money to

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Speaker 1: make her go away. I'm just wondering would the city

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Speaker 1: give up authority because this is issue five. So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about that the background, and that it came after Timothy

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Speaker 1: Thomas was shot and killed in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: caused the riots. We had a charter amendment the issue

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Speaker 1: that passed I believe in November that year with just

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Speaker 1: over fifty percent of the vote. I think fifty fifty

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Speaker 1: one fifty two percent. But essentially the issue five you've

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Speaker 1: mentioned that a lot ken is that the city manager

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Speaker 1: in this case, shere along has the power to hire

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Speaker 1: and fire a police chief, fire chief, department heads at

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Speaker 1: whim at will. And there's no balance in that whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: In the past, it used to be the FOP you

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Speaker 1: guys had a little bit of a say in that

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Speaker 1: you don't have that anymore. Is that what led to this?

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Speaker 2: Well, sure, you know, and ultimately with that passing allowing

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Speaker 2: one person to have sole authority as to whether you

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Speaker 2: fire a police chief or a fire chief. It's been

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Speaker 2: proven with the fire chief. It's now been proven with

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Speaker 2: what's going on with Chief Eage that this is a

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Speaker 2: terrible idea. There has to be changes to Issue five

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Speaker 2: otherwise we're going to continue to see the same thing.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who you make the police chief. As

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Speaker 2: long as city Hall still is making the decisions as

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Speaker 2: to what's going to go on with the police department,

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Speaker 2: this is what we're going to have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's Ken Cobert, President the FOP. The reaction to

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Speaker 1: Attorney Steve IM's press conference he heard live on seven

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Speaker 1: hundred Wow and on the stream via the iHeart radio

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Speaker 1: app too, and that is saying we're fighting this. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to let Terry Thiji take essentially be a

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Speaker 1: sacrificial lamb is what he called her, and said, this

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Speaker 1: stole thing is disappointing, and there's no justification or cause,

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Speaker 1: which is a legal term, no cause because she took

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Speaker 1: no action or inaction on her part to cause her

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Speaker 1: termination or it looks like at least her suspension no wrongdoing,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to fight this thing tooth and nail

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Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens. But relative to Issue five

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Speaker 1: in this case, I had some notes here from back

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Speaker 1: in the day in two thousand and one, the manager

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Speaker 1: for Issue five that we're talking about here said, this

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Speaker 1: is how other cities do it. And of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: if other cities do it well, then it's got to

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Speaker 1: be successful for Cincinnati. At the time, your predecessor, Keith Fegman,

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Speaker 1: remember Keith Keith was the fop P president, and said,

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen is it's going to politicize departments.

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Speaker 1: What's going to happen is you're going to have politicians

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Speaker 1: making decisions of law enforcement. And anytime that the something

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Speaker 1: happens it's bad, the chief is going to be a

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Speaker 1: sacrificial and we'll have a revolving door. And in that

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Speaker 1: case he illustrated the Cleveland when they implemented this, they

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Speaker 1: went through nine police chiefs, I believe in less than

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Speaker 1: eight years because of the system. And now Terry Fiji's

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Speaker 1: gone after what three not quite three we had a

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Speaker 1: chief before them. It's just going to be a revolving

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Speaker 1: door because the political will power exists and there's cover

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Speaker 1: of politically speaking to terminate the chief when in fact

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Speaker 1: it's not the chief. It's kind of like our foot

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Speaker 1: our sports teams can it's it's never the coach, the

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Speaker 1: assistant coach, the line cut, it's always the ownership in

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Speaker 1: the front office. That's what he's saying without a doubt.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Keith, he was spot on when he said it.

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Speaker 2: That was twenty four years ago. We saw it with

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Speaker 2: James Craig. He was the first chief to hire outside

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Speaker 2: this police department. The rank and file loved him. He

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Speaker 2: refused the cave to pressure from city Hall and after

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Speaker 2: two years they went thanks, but no thanks for gone.

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Speaker 2: You know, we got another chief that came in, made

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Speaker 2: it eighteen months they fired him. So this is no

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Speaker 2: surprise that this is all coming to fruition and it

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Speaker 2: needs a change.

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Speaker 1: Can this change before you overturn issue Fiation five? I'd

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Speaker 1: have to go back on the ballot. You'd have to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to work around that. Because there was

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Speaker 1: a charter amendment that passed in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: A lot of work to overdo that, and the will

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Speaker 1: of the voters, of course, but can Chief thee Is

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Speaker 1: there room for her to come back and do her job?

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Speaker 2: I don't know why she'd want to at this point,

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Speaker 2: the way that she's been treated. I mean, you treat

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Speaker 2: somebody as thirty five years you've given to the city,

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Speaker 2: and this is how you're being treated. And I can

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Speaker 2: tell you right now the cops are going if they're

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Speaker 2: going to do this to the chief, what will they

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Speaker 2: do to me? I don't know why you would want

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Speaker 2: to come back. I just don't see a scenario where

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Speaker 2: that happens, because then she's going to be constantly looking

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Speaker 2: at her shoulder. What are they going to do to

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Speaker 2: me next? I feel for them, Like I said, this

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Speaker 2: is this fight with the FOP in the city is

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Speaker 2: just as much about Chief Figi as it is for

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Speaker 2: the next chief, for the chief after that, the chief

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Speaker 2: fifty years from now. There has got to be change made.

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Speaker 2: And if I have to put all the effort in

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Speaker 2: the world to the FOP to make sure that Issue

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Speaker 2: five is changed, and that's exactly what we're going to do.

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Speaker 1: Ken Kober, the name that was mentioned that caused Steve

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Speaker 1: m to just simply pause, consider it and then say,

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Speaker 1: I can't comment on that was the name Iris Rawley,

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Speaker 1: how much? How many fingerprints are on this? Her fingerprints

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Speaker 1: are on what's happening right now?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's hard saying it wouldn't surprise me. But

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Speaker 2: the problem is there was no transparency at city hall.

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Speaker 2: That is the absolute problem. You had the mayor say

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Speaker 2: after the press conference that we're exploring all options. We're

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Speaker 2: not sure if if the chief's going to stay or not,

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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, you know, nothing happens.

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Speaker 2: And then the mayor comes out and says, oh, this

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Speaker 2: is show a Long's decision. It's not my decision, it's hers.

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Speaker 2: And of course then she makes the decision. Oh, I

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Speaker 2: completely support her decision. It's just the lack of transparency

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Speaker 2: is staggering coming from city Hall.

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Speaker 1: Well, the fact of the matter, she goes to Denver,

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Speaker 1: she gets recalled, there's an urgent message, there's an urgent

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Speaker 1: issue in Cincinnati. We already had the Fountain Square shootings

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Speaker 1: at this point. She's off to Denver. She comes back

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Speaker 1: and now they go, well, we're going to suspend, you'll

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Speaker 1: put you on paid leave. Why, Well, we can't say,

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Speaker 1: we don't know, but here's the interim chief, and this

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Speaker 1: whole thing has been handled so poorly. In drag, Effer said,

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Speaker 1: but it's decision after decision like this, you know, like

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Speaker 1: when way after food carts and red bikes, in breaking

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Speaker 1: up the probation departments, all these things that actually made

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Speaker 1: crime worse or had no impact on whatsoever. And now

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Speaker 1: ultimately the last thing they have, the last quiver in

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Speaker 1: their arsenal, is firing the chief. And I'll point out

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Speaker 1: ken I read this earlier in the show, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's worth pointing out again that when she was

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Speaker 1: hired in twenty twenty two to replace Elliott Isaac, she

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Speaker 1: was an executive assistant chief, first woman to lead the department,

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Speaker 1: and she said in her first interview or her swearing

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Speaker 1: in her priorities upon taking off us, We're dedicated to

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Speaker 1: ensuring CPD is as inclusive as possible, and I'm committed

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Speaker 1: wholeheartedly to continue the work of the collaborative agreement. That

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Speaker 1: sounds like someone who's saying that because she know how

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Speaker 1: she got the job, Like those are the marching orders

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Speaker 1: she was given by the administration as opposed to well,

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Speaker 1: dealing with street level crime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, you know, it's funny how this is all transpiring. Now,

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Speaker 2: It's like making an arrest and then deciding what the

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Speaker 2: crime is. I mean, that's literally, that's how ridiculous this is.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna put you on leave until we can figure

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Speaker 2: out why it is that we're actually going to fire you,

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Speaker 2: and then we're going to do it. It's absolutely nonsense.

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Speaker 2: And the rank and file recognizes that. You're regardless of

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Speaker 2: how they feel about her as the chief, how they

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Speaker 2: feel about her as a police officer, none of that

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Speaker 2: matters the rank and files when this is at right

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Speaker 2: to treat somebody this way. And that's why I said

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Speaker 2: that the police department of the rank and file has

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Speaker 2: certainly been united over this.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a terrible thing, and that normally, if you're

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Speaker 1: looking to get rid of somebody, and I've worked for

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Speaker 1: places and work for places where they're always looking to

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Speaker 1: you know, cut, cut some baggage, lose, they build a file.

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Speaker 1: They go, okay, well this person is doing this. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've got a file. We've got to and you build

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Speaker 1: a history so that if you have to terminate someone,

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Speaker 1: you can point to that and go it's not discrimination,

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Speaker 1: it's for cause. Here's the causes. They don't have that here.

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Speaker 1: They suspended her paid administrative leave, and now they're looking

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Speaker 1: for reasons to go back and say, here's why we

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Speaker 1: put you on leave. And this could go on for

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Speaker 1: weeks and weeks and weeks to try and funds find

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Speaker 1: some dirt on Terry Thiji that may or may not

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Speaker 1: probably doesn't exist because you would have.

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Speaker 2: Had this stuff already, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I guess it does have a chilling effect in

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Speaker 1: police officers. But you know, we also mentioned that the

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Speaker 1: city just went in their pocket for money, even more money,

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Speaker 1: another four and a half million dollars to pay police

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Speaker 1: officer try and recruit police office because as you know,

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Speaker 1: and you often said, were what one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: to one hundred and fifty cops down? Which is also

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Speaker 1: part of the problem too, because we spent money out

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Speaker 1: of the other stupid things getting keeping boots on the ground.

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Speaker 1: But what does that due to recruitment efforts? And Simmon

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Speaker 1: sees this from I don't know, we're talking about lateral recruitments,

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Speaker 1: meaning you're stealing cops from other jurisdictions, go come to shiny,

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Speaker 1: sunny Cincinnati and work here. It's great, how does that

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Speaker 1: undermine the cause that you're trying to do, and that

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Speaker 1: is getting more cops signed up, not less. This to

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Speaker 1: me sounds like it make cops want to leave, not

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Speaker 1: to stay.

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Speaker 2: Without a doubt, I mean it is. It is certainly

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Speaker 2: going to have a devastating effect on retention because we're

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Speaker 2: going to see even more people say, as they get

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Speaker 2: twenty five years on that leave and then anybody that

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Speaker 2: actually pays to pays attention to the media, Uh, they're

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Speaker 2: not gonna want to come here. So it's gonna it's

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Speaker 2: gonna also affect recruiting. And it's just every time we

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Speaker 2: finally get out of the news over the you know,

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Speaker 2: the attack at Fourth and Elm and how that was handled,

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Speaker 2: and we finally get passed out and then now we

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Speaker 2: have this, and it's just unfortunately City Hall seems to

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Speaker 2: not be able to get out of their way when

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Speaker 2: it comes to, uh, dealing with these issues. And it's

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Speaker 2: certainly going to have a terrible impact on recruitment and retention.

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Speaker 1: How long you think this drags out, what's your gut say?

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Speaker 2: Who knows? I mean weeks? Who knows? I mean it's

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Speaker 2: already drug out five or six days. I just who knows.

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Speaker 2: I hope it ends quickly. It's what the men and

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Speaker 2: women of this police department deserve, it's what the residents deserve.

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Speaker 2: So just to be handled very quickly and let's move

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Speaker 2: on whatever that looks like, whether it's her coming back,

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Speaker 2: her not coming back, they need to resolve this very

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Speaker 2: very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I know the rank and file weren't enamored with Terry Thiji,

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Speaker 1: but man, what the city just did is solidify every

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Speaker 1: man and woman on that thin blue or white line

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Speaker 1: as it is in Cincinnati, on her side. This is incredible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, without a doubt.

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Speaker 1: He is Ken Kobert. He is the president of the

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati Lodge at the FOP joint of the show with

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Speaker 1: his reaction following the press conference involving Terry Figi's administrative

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Speaker 1: paid administrative leaves. They look for reasons to fire her,

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Speaker 1: supposed to having reasons. Now we're gonna put you on leave,

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Speaker 1: pay you, and then look for is to fire you.

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Speaker 1: That's completely as backwards as it gets for any big city,

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Speaker 1: or any city in America for that matter. But that's

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Speaker 1: our town, that is Cincinnati, USA. Can all the best

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Speaker 1: be safe? Thanks again?

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Speaker 2: All right, thanks very much, Scott News.

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Speaker 1: On the way. We'll shift it up a little bit here.

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Speaker 1: Tim Holloway is the president of the Hamlin County Associations

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Speaker 1: of Chiefs the Police. His reaction to this and also

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Speaker 1: some of the areas that were pointed out in the

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Speaker 1: press conference to get a chance to get to and

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Speaker 1: that would be judge's role in this whole thing, and

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Speaker 1: the accusation by Steve Im that Aftaed Pirrival won't engage

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Speaker 1: county judges to force them to get tougher when it

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Speaker 1: comes to bond and releasing people who are violent criminals

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Speaker 1: on their own recognizance. Chief Holloway his reaction next seven

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Speaker 1: hundred WWT, Cincinnati