1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: This is this is our last show before Christmas, and 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: you know things. I didn't want things to end on 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: a sour note. Fortunately, we have tracked down our friend 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Bill Rabinowitz, whose book Buckeye Brotherhood outlines the inside story 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: behind last year's twenty twenty four Ohio State National Championship 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: football team. Bill covered Ohio state sports for years for 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: the Columbus Dispatch, now for his substack Bill on the Buckeyes. 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: The book is terrific. Bill is terrific. He's with us now, Hi, Bill, Hello, 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: how are you. I'm well, it's awesome to have you. 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like fifty three weeks ago, you know, Ryan 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Day is getting set to coach in the College Football Playoff. 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: He's just lost to Michigan. It feels like the walls 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: are closing in. He's coaching for his job and he 14 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: has since won a national title. They're the odds on 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: favorite to win another one he beats Michigan. The Michigan 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: programs in tatters. What a difference twelve twelve months and 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: a week make. 18 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is crazy to think how things changed. I mean, 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: I think everyone went to that Tennessee game thinking, you know, 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: which team's going to show up. 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 3: Are they going to mail it in? Or are they 22 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: going to come out inspired? 23 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: And they blew the doors down and then rolled through 24 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: the playoffs in one of the great turnarounds in college 25 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 2: football history. I mean, they were as low as a 26 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: team can get after losing in Michigan, because all those 27 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: guys came back primarily to beat Michigan. You know, oh yeah, 28 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 2: they wanted to win the national championship, but that was 29 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: the most immediate goal is to beat Michigan. When they 30 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: lost that game, inexplicably, they're like, what do we come 31 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: back for? Then they had the you know, team meeting. 32 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: It's kind of become famous, and then they went on 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: that role and yeah, it's crazy, and you think about 34 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 2: what's happened in Michigan since then, and look, that's it 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: was kind of in some ways a. 36 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 3: Bit of a house of cards there, right especially after 37 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: Harball left. And it is sad. 38 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: Because obviously there's you know, the human the toll it 39 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: has taken, but the boy, it's the programs are on 40 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: different footings right now. 41 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: About brotherhood and football, and sometimes it can sound cliche. 42 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: I actually talked with Patrick Hurt, who played for the 43 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: Bearcats this year was on that Ohio State team and 44 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: outline just for me, you know how how legitimate and 45 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: real that was. That is I think one of the 46 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: it's the central theme of your book. You've been around 47 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: a lot of Ohio State teams. Was this the most 48 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: close knit one? 49 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: I think so, just because they've been through so much together. 50 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: You know, they stayed for four years, which is pretty unusual. 51 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: And honestly, if you had asked me at the start 52 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: of the process of writing the book whether I would 53 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 2: have a title like Buckeye Brotherhood, I probably would have 54 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: said no, because it seems like a cliche. Right Every 55 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 2: team is, oh, we're a family, We're so close, or 56 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: so this, and usually it's it's kind of a this 57 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: is not really the truth. But these guys were, I mean, 58 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: and and time after time that brotherhood sustained them. And 59 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: as I kept doing their research and writing this, it 60 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: just was obvious that that had to be the title, 61 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: because that was that's what it was. I mean, you 62 00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: can kind of roll your eyes at it, which is 63 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 2: the temptation, but it was real and I think that's 64 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 2: what carried the day for them. That's really what got 65 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: him through it. That and the fact they were really 66 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: talented too. I mean, don't overlook that they were really talented. 67 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: That that brotherhood, if you will, it's hard to achieve 68 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: in the old way the college football was played. I 69 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: think that's what stands out to me, right and in 70 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: this era where you're you're seeing coaches across sports have 71 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: a hard time, you know, cobbling together teams and building 72 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: culture and and and keeping it keeping it going from 73 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: one year to the next, I think to me, and 74 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: you're much closer to it than I am. Obviously, that's 75 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: what made what they had last year stand out. 76 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 77 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: Again, you know, these guys could have gone to the NFL, 78 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: could have made you know, look, they got nil money. 79 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: It's not like they were, you know, poor, but they 80 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: could have in some cases made a considerably uh you know, 81 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: bigger amount and gotten closer to the second contract that 82 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: every NFL player, every football player once. But they they 83 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: just felt like it was unfinished business. That they couldn't 84 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: in good conscience leave Ohio State without having beaten Michigan 85 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: and making a run at the national championship, and and 86 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: to have the adversity that they did, to have, you know, 87 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: to have lost Oregon in October, which was a tough loss, 88 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: but not devastating, But then to lose to Michigan was devastating. 89 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: It was not a good Michigan team and and they 90 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: did not expect nobody expected that. I don't think Michigan expected, 91 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: you know, that that outcome. So yeah, that was that 92 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: was a big. 93 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 3: Part of it. 94 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: But also, and I think the heart of the book 95 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: is the are the personal stories that I that I 96 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: really tried to dig deep and get to Ryan Day's background. 97 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, most Peolho State fans know that 98 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: his father died by suicide when he was eight. You 99 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 2: know just what that impact was on his life, and 100 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: and that was kind of the first chapter of the book. 101 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: And then there are other players, you know stories. Jack 102 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 2: Sawyer has a had an arc to his story where 103 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 2: a five star guy from Pickerington, a suburb of Columbus, 104 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: and his career was just kind of okay until the end. 105 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 3: Of his junior year. Senior year. 106 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: He wanted to make a big splash and he was 107 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: one minute late to a workout and thought that he'd 108 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: blown his chance to be a captain, you know, and 109 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: he obviously makes the most famous player of the season. 110 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: That's the cover shot of the book is the Sawyer 111 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: scoop and score against Texas. And I've got a whole 112 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: chapter on just that one play, just what dissecting it 113 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: from every angle, what he saw, what coaches saw, what 114 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 2: players and coaches and Ross by York the ad what 115 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: they experienced watching that play. I mean, that's that's kind 116 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: of one of the fun chapters of the book is 117 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: his people reliving that play. But the heart of the 118 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 2: book is just the stories of these players, one after 119 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: the other, who overcame adversity, whether it was injuries or 120 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: whether it was not feeling like their career had gone 121 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: the way they wanted it to. 122 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: That was kind of that's the essence of the book. 123 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: Buckeye Brotherhood. How Ohio State navigated a new world to 124 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: win a national championship. Bill Robinowitz, if if you are 125 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: thinking of a very last minute gift for an Ohio 126 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: State fan, highly recommend really quick. With the college football 127 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: Playoff quarterfinal looming, how much should the performance against Indiana's 128 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: defense in the Big Ten title game give folks pauses 129 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: they look ahead to next I guess next Wednesday night. 130 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: Well we'll find out, But I do think it could 131 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 2: be a blessing in disguise. 132 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 3: I think that day that was kind of a weird week. 133 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: It was signing day. 134 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: They Brian Hartline took the South Florida job. They had 135 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 2: to try to hold onto Chris Henry Junior, of course, 136 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: the son of the former Bengal receiver. 137 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 3: It's weird. 138 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: I covered Chris Henry Senior as a Bengal for the Dispatch, 139 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: and now we covered Chris Henry Junior. I saw him 140 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: at a recruiting thing last year or camping last year, 141 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: and I total, man, he was, oh man. 142 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 3: You're old. But kind of a weird week. And yes, 143 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 3: I think that they probably it will. 144 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: Probably help them to be humbled some and and realize 145 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: that they're not invincible. 146 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 3: But they have to fix some things too. 147 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: You know, the offensive line did not play well in 148 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: that game, and they've got to get some things sticked. 149 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: But I'm not convinced that Jeremiah Smith or Carnell Tate 150 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: was all that healthy in that game. 151 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: I think it. You know, we'll see. Look, you'd never know. 152 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: Last year all the teams they had to buy lost. 153 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: Now some of those were the teams that probably shouldn't 154 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: have gotten buy. But you know, there is that concern, 155 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: and Miami is talented enough to beat them, and I'm 156 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: not sure that they have been consistent enough and they've. 157 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: Got some holes. But but you know, that's going to 158 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 3: be an interesting game. We'll see. 159 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: Look and probably to answer a question you might be thinking, 160 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: or somebody might be thinking, no, I do not have 161 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: plans to write another book. 162 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 3: Championship. 163 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: You write a book. That's how it works. 164 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: That's it's a little tough, you know, doing a book 165 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: in four months with the level of reporting that I 166 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: that I do is. I don't think mentally or physically 167 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: I can do that back to back years, but but 168 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: I do. Ohio State fans follow me on substack Bill 169 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 2: Rabinowitz dot substack dot com. That you know, I left 170 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: the Dispatch in September on very good terms. It was 171 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: my decision strictly. I've just been looking for something different 172 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: and substack gives me freedom to write, you know, covered 173 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: team the way I've always wanted to do it. Yeah, yeah, 174 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: I am charging. I mean you could get a free subscription, 175 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: but I obviously you know what pays. The bills are a 176 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 2: paid subscription. So I appreciate if people would do that, 177 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: you know, and I want to keep doing what I do. 178 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 3: And so. 179 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a weird year because they didn't really 180 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 2: have much of a regular season that was that had 181 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: any drama. I mean it was Texas at the beginning 182 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 2: and Issue at the end, and not much in the middle. 183 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: But now it heats up, you know, now it gets interesting. 184 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: No question. Bill on the Buckeye Substack and Buckeye Brotherhood available. 185 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: As we say, Bill, where you get your books. Appreciate 186 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: the time, man, have a great Christmas. Thanks so much. 187 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: All right, thanks man, I appreciate it.