Speaker 1: We do it every single Wednesday.
Speaker 2: We get together with our buddy pastor Chad, the lead
Speaker 2: pastor at the Horizon Community Church in Newtown, right on
Speaker 2: the banks of the Little Miami River.
Speaker 1: Good morning, sir, How are you today?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm doing great. How about yourself?
Speaker 1: Doing all right?
Speaker 3: Little rainy day, but had some wonderful crisp fall days
Speaker 3: coming up to usn't night last couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it looks like we're gonna have some good
Speaker 2: ones over the weekend after some rain today and tomorrow
Speaker 2: and clearing up apparently tomorrow night. You know, in the
Speaker 2: news a lot lately, and there was a big story
Speaker 2: that's on going up in Waynesville, Ohio about a man
Speaker 2: who's been an administrator there, a coach for forty seven years,
Speaker 2: or an athletic director, and now all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: people sort of I guess, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 2: coming out of the woodwork some thirty plus years later
Speaker 2: about inappropriate behavior. Whether it's true or not, we don't know,
Speaker 2: but it is an ongoing big story in Waynesville, and
Speaker 2: it brings to mind the role of not only coaches
Speaker 2: but also parents. And you know, let's start with parents
Speaker 2: because I heard a lengthy, uh.
Speaker 1: What's a word, a sermon for lack of a better term.
Speaker 2: I think it was from Chip Ingram the other day
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, structure in the household and closest.
Speaker 1: So so let's start with parents.
Speaker 2: It seems to me a lot of the parents that
Speaker 2: I'm around right now, Chad Hoban want to be a
Speaker 2: friend of their kids. Can parents be friends of their
Speaker 2: young kids?
Speaker 3: Well, I guess it depends on how you define friendship.
Speaker 3: I mean, when I first had my kids, when I
Speaker 3: were first born, my vision statements for my parenting was
Speaker 3: a fifty year friendship with my kids. However, that doesn't
Speaker 3: mean every stage you're accommodating to them or acting like
Speaker 3: they are moral equal. But my goal is to raise
Speaker 3: kids who would be you know, responsible adults, would have
Speaker 3: the tools they need for that and have the emotional
Speaker 3: closeness so that we would have a fifty year friendship.
Speaker 3: So I'm not sure it's either or. But if you
Speaker 3: define friendship as a lack of structure, a lack of discipline,
Speaker 3: that I'd say you're missing out. It was a study
Speaker 3: in Minnesota years ago called the Minnesota Study, and they
Speaker 3: rated on an X and Y axis. What's needed for parenting,
Speaker 3: for coaching, for mentoring, in any relationship, and that was
Speaker 3: structure on the Y axis, and it was emotional closeness
Speaker 3: on the X axis. And strangely, they found that parents
Speaker 3: and coaches who had high emotional closeness I care about you,
Speaker 3: I love you, I appreciate you, they had all emotional
Speaker 3: closeness but no structure, no discipline, no calling to account,
Speaker 3: no accountability. Strangely, the parents who had the most emotional
Speaker 3: closeness but the least amount of structure, without any at all.
Speaker 3: On the other side, they raised the most insecure kids,
Speaker 3: which you think would be the oppoctity. Now, the other
Speaker 3: contrast was those who had high discipline. I'm not listening
Speaker 3: to your perspective. Your voice hasn't heard. I'm not trying
Speaker 3: to understand the whole side, but just discipline, discipline, discipline.
Speaker 3: I'm the authoritarian, I make the rules and you obey it.
Speaker 3: Those parents raise the most rebellious children because they had
Speaker 3: all that structure. But the minute that structure was gone, there,
Speaker 3: out of there. And it's actually a little verse in
Speaker 3: the Bible that says where the law increases, sin increases
Speaker 3: even more. And you've probably see in your own life.
Speaker 3: You're walking along on a path, suddenly see a sign
Speaker 3: that says stay off the grass. I wasn't even thinking
Speaker 3: about stepping on the ground. Show that I see the sign,
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, maybe I want to. So really, the
Speaker 3: key is not rules for rule's sake, But how do
Speaker 3: you teach principles? I would say all the time, I
Speaker 3: got a little inner rebel in me. I've never found
Speaker 3: a rule I didn't want to break, but a principle
Speaker 3: I don't want to love. So part of coaching and
Speaker 3: part of parenting is trying to teach this principle behind
Speaker 3: this application is so important. It's important to your life.
Speaker 3: It's going to serve you well. And so what we
Speaker 3: want to do we want to combine emotional closeness and
Speaker 3: the structure and discipline because those who actually combine both
Speaker 3: of those raise the most secure children. And same thing
Speaker 3: in a boss situation, you say, wow, my boss Ray
Speaker 3: loves me, But man, this place is run an incompetent way.
Speaker 3: People getting away with murder around here, and there's no accountability.
Speaker 3: What you're calling for is some degree of structure increase.
Speaker 3: Other times you have a boss or situation where it's like, man,
Speaker 3: you know this place is run well, but I think
Speaker 3: I'm a cog in the wheel. No one cares about me,
Speaker 3: No one asks about me, No one ever says anything
Speaker 3: nice about my contribution except the once a year when
Speaker 3: I do an annual review. So how do we combine
Speaker 3: both those things? And I think if you are a
Speaker 3: person who's been coached, you realize the benefit of coaching.
Speaker 3: You know, whether your parent died well or coached well,
Speaker 3: or the other side, you weren't coached well, or you
Speaker 3: weren't parented well, you felt a deficit of that. Man,
Speaker 3: you know what I want to do better than what
Speaker 3: was trusted to me. That's really what a coach does.
Speaker 3: It creates a whole environment in a family, all environment
Speaker 3: in an area of your company. Who can't control the
Speaker 3: whole environment in your department, you see, I want to
Speaker 3: coach people who can coach people to coach people. I
Speaker 3: think about like a parenting. I want to coach my
Speaker 3: kids so they end up being able to coach my grandkids,
Speaker 3: so they can coach my great grandkids. It's a culture
Speaker 3: of humility, it's a culture of teachability. I mean, I'm
Speaker 3: been a public speaker now for I don't know, forty
Speaker 3: five years if you take the time back when I
Speaker 3: was on stage and doing plays and stuff to be
Speaker 3: a professional communicator, and every week I have six people
Speaker 3: critique me because I watch my videos every single week,
Speaker 3: because I want to be communicating and doing my best
Speaker 3: work next week, next month, next year, not last week,
Speaker 3: last month. But that requires humility. It's not well, you know,
Speaker 3: I've got a covered bob. You know I've learned a lot,
Speaker 3: but other people are going to see things I don't see.
Speaker 3: Doesn't mean I always jump at all the feedback on
Speaker 3: hundred percent, but I want to be open to feedback.
Speaker 3: I want to be open to other perspectives so that
Speaker 3: I can be my best by having the proverb in
Speaker 3: the Bible says iron sharpens iron, we need other people
Speaker 3: to sharpen us unless we get dult.
Speaker 2: You know one word, and I've read that Minnesota study,
Speaker 2: one word that seemed to creep into the conversation quite
Speaker 2: a bit. That seemed to be, if not the most
Speaker 2: important word in all of that. Now, I'm going to
Speaker 2: talk specifically for a second and ask you about parenting
Speaker 2: has to do with the word obedience and how you know, look,
Speaker 2: you're trying to raise your kids, and look, whether you're
Speaker 2: a deeply spiritual person or not, is to get them
Speaker 2: to understand. And this is where we see in society
Speaker 2: so frequently now where either parents aren't doing it, parents
Speaker 2: aren't around, and all of a sudden, kids just don't
Speaker 2: understand the importance of obedience as they are growing up.
Speaker 2: And then perhaps from a more spiritual standpoint than obedience
Speaker 2: to how they live.
Speaker 1: Is that fair? I think it's very fair.
Speaker 3: In fact, I always say, you don't break God's laws,
Speaker 3: you discover them in the same way. It's not just
Speaker 3: spiritual things, but you don't break the law of gravity.
Speaker 3: You discover the law of gravity when you think a
Speaker 3: step off of a building, and so the same way.
Speaker 3: If a child doesn't learn that there is structure and
Speaker 3: there's truth, and there are things that you need to
Speaker 3: submit subordinate yourself too, then you're going to be in
Speaker 3: trouble because hey, I finally got rid of mom and dad. Well,
Speaker 3: you still got a landlord. I've covered my landlord. Well,
Speaker 3: I guess, but you still have roommates, you still have
Speaker 3: a boss, you still have These are principles that apply
Speaker 3: in every area of life. And if you think you
Speaker 3: can circumvent reality like the hang glider can temporarily circumvent gravity,
Speaker 3: but you're eventually going to go down. And so you
Speaker 3: want to say, I'm teaching my children how to deal
Speaker 3: with life. Part dealing with life is dealing with truth.
Speaker 3: The part dealing with truth is understanding I need to subordinate,
Speaker 3: subordinate myself to the truth here. And so as a parent,
Speaker 3: you want to teach first time obedience. Yes there's a
Speaker 3: place for negotiation. Yes there's a place for appealing and
Speaker 3: what we can talk about that too as a parent,
Speaker 3: but we need to start with if dad or mom
Speaker 3: tells you to do this, I want your first thing
Speaker 3: you say is I'm going to do it. I'm going
Speaker 3: to call you to first time obedience. Now, of course,
Speaker 3: none of us are really good at that head and
Speaker 3: that's why as a parent, you're a teacher. And I
Speaker 3: think a lot of people think of themselves as you know,
Speaker 3: generals or drill sergeants's parents. But the primary role you
Speaker 3: want to see yourself as a teacher. So if your
Speaker 3: child is not giving first time obedience, how can I
Speaker 3: teach them that? How can I show what the consequences
Speaker 3: that they don't, but also lovingly teach what it looks like.
Speaker 3: Then also say, now, when you're characterized by first time obedience,
Speaker 3: there is a place to respectfully disagree, but we don't
Speaker 3: teach that either. How what does it look like to
Speaker 3: respectfully disagree? Well, after you say, dad, i'll do it, it's
Speaker 3: okay the next day an hour later to come up
Speaker 3: and say can I talk to you about something dead?
Speaker 3: Or even in the phrases we taught our kids is
Speaker 3: can I appeal? Sometimes answer is no, you can't, that's
Speaker 3: not on this one. Yeah, other times it's yes, you
Speaker 3: can appeal on this one, I'm willing to listen. I'll
Speaker 3: give it a second.
Speaker 1: Listen.
Speaker 3: And many times I came back and changed my mind.
Speaker 3: I came back and apologized by the way I handled
Speaker 3: it because I wanted to demonstrate to my kids not
Speaker 3: only do I want them to be teachable, but I
Speaker 3: want to be teachable, And so I think you can
Speaker 3: combine both those things. The question you want to ask
Speaker 3: yourself as a parent to coach a boss is am
Speaker 3: I living an imitatable life? Like when people see how
Speaker 3: I'm leading, how I'm acting, how I'm parenting, But your
Speaker 3: kids say, you know, Dad's not perfect, but he owns
Speaker 3: it when he's not. That's an imitatable life and that's
Speaker 3: what a coach does.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Before I let you go, though, I want to ask
Speaker 2: you. You know, we get into vicious cycles, right, you know,
Speaker 2: over and over. Okay, let's it's him for a second.
Speaker 2: That you were a kid who didn't grow up with
Speaker 2: a lot of these things. Maybe you didn't get a
Speaker 2: lot of love, Maybe you didn't have a lot of structure.
Speaker 2: How do you change that so when you become a
Speaker 2: parent it's different.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I just read a great story the
Speaker 3: other day about the movie Maverick with Jodie Foster and
Speaker 3: Mel Gibson, and mel Gibson kind of lost his temper
Speaker 3: on set and and Jody tooka is this good chemistry?
Speaker 3: I After you saw Maverick?
Speaker 2: It was pretty cool.
Speaker 3: A little movie with James Gardner. And he gets all
Speaker 3: upset and he comes back to the next shot and
Speaker 3: he knew he'd stepped in it. And he bought her
Speaker 3: some flowers and he wrote her a note and he said,
Speaker 3: I was raised by a man who taught me to
Speaker 3: fight first, but I'm trying to be a better man,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. There's somebody who acknowledges I didn't come with
Speaker 3: all the tools I needed, and certainly mel Gibson got
Speaker 3: the whole train wreck of bad decisions. But he's trying
Speaker 3: to make progress. And I think that's what you want
Speaker 3: to do as a parent, to say it's not perfection.
Speaker 3: I'm pursuing progress. And I tell you that grace goes
Speaker 3: a long way. When you come back and your kids
Speaker 3: for the first time, I'm in a long time here,
Speaker 3: you say, you know what, I could have handled that better.
Speaker 3: So like, oh my goodness, the klophone is going off
Speaker 3: and my dad's answering it. The kluphone is shrinking, and
Speaker 3: my mom answered it. Same thing you think with your kids.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh my goodness, the son the klophone has
Speaker 3: been ringing for like six months and it's founding on
Speaker 3: your door. It's going to be painful if you don't
Speaker 3: pick it up. So again, you want to model the
Speaker 3: same thing. It's okay to say I'm not good at this. Guys,
Speaker 3: you know I'm not good at this. You watch me
Speaker 3: every day. But I want to at least be better
Speaker 3: at this. And you'd be amazed at the forgiveness and
Speaker 3: grace people give each other when they realize you're at
Speaker 3: least trying to aim in the right direction.
Speaker 2: Great stuff as always, Pastor Chad Hoven. Can't thank you
Speaker 2: enough for your time and hope you have a great
Speaker 2: rest of your week and UH and thanks as always, sir,
Speaker 2: Great talking.
Speaker 3: To you, sounds good talking a
Speaker 2: Pastor Chad Holen always great talking with him, always incredible wisdom.