1
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Ray on WVS, Boston's news radio.

2
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,680
Speaker 2: I am delighted to welcome back to Night's Side, William Miller,

3
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:18,960
Speaker 2: William Martin. Excuse me, William martinh an author of renown.

4
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,840
Speaker 2: I think most people who read or read books.

5
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 3: No.

6
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,360
Speaker 2: No, Bill Martin, graduate of Catholic Memorial Harvard College, went

7
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 2: on and studied film at USC. We are obviously in

8
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 2: the middle of a very interesting evening with all of

9
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,640
Speaker 2: the police activity. But my suspicion is that we will

10
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 2: certainly be able to get our hour in with my

11
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 2: guest Bill Martin, William Martin. But if we have to

12
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,159
Speaker 2: break away, if there's some immediate development, I hope all

13
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,440
Speaker 2: of you as well as my guests will understand that

14
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,160
Speaker 2: Bill Martin, Welcome to Nightside. Welcome back. How are you, sir, Dan?

15
00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 4: I'm great? How are you doing?

16
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 2: Just fine? Better to have you here. We spent Saturday

17
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,680
Speaker 2: evening I had the honor of introducing you, and you

18
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 2: delivered just an amazing presentation on your book December of

19
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,120
Speaker 2: forty one or December forty one. I'd just like to

20
00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 2: go through some of the books that you've written over

21
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 2: the years, because what amazes me is that you have

22
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 2: been able to craft a career as a writer, and

23
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,039
Speaker 2: there are very few people who are able to do that.

24
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,200
Speaker 2: You've produced a series of books that your readers know

25
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 2: as the Peter Fallon series, starting with Back Bay in

26
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, Harvard Yard, The Lost Constitution, City of Dreams,

27
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 2: The Lincoln Letter, Bound for Gold. You wrote a book

28
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,600
Speaker 2: called A Life in an Ivory Tower in twenty twenty.

29
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 4: That one's not me.

30
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 2: Go ahead.

31
00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 4: I've written twelve novels, the Peter Fallon books that you've referenced,

32
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,640
Speaker 4: and then a series of other, as we say in

33
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 4: the business, standalone novels that aren't part of a series.

34
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,160
Speaker 4: But you know, there are a lot of William Martin's

35
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,720
Speaker 4: out there, and a lot of them write books. And

36
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,240
Speaker 4: I am given the credit or the blame for those books.

37
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:27,880
Speaker 4: Uh you know? And you know that includes books ranging

38
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:33,080
Speaker 4: from well these were titles like The Rise of the

39
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,520
Speaker 4: Religious Right to My Prostate and Me. All of these

40
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,240
Speaker 4: have been written by guys named William Martin and I

41
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 4: get letters, or or The Tow of Raising Children and

42
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 4: I get letters, and I have to tell these people,

43
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 4: now you got the wrong guy. I'm just I'm just

44
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 4: the entertainer. I'm the one that tells you, not in

45
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 4: novel form, about the history of the United States.

46
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,880
Speaker 2: All right, well that's I'm looking at it. The other

47
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,839
Speaker 2: books that I know you've written, that one was one

48
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 2: that I was unfamiliar with. But I thought, well maybe

49
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:16,840
Speaker 2: he now no one's writing you and I hope mixing

50
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,840
Speaker 2: you up with Billy Martin, the former manager of the Yankees,

51
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,960
Speaker 2: and asking you what what was said actually in Fenway

52
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 2: in the dugout of Fenway Park between you and Reggie Jackson.

53
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,800
Speaker 4: And Reggie Jackson I remember that moment. You know, you

54
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,080
Speaker 4: and I are among the few people who would remember

55
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 4: that moment. So the other night, the other night, we

56
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 4: had some very good fifties red Sox coot going on.

57
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 2: Yes, no, people would be looking at us like saying,

58
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,600
Speaker 2: who is Pete Daily? And both of us knew who

59
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,000
Speaker 2: Pete Daily was. But the other book's The Rising of

60
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 2: the Moon Cape Cod, which of course is a great book.

61
00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,720
Speaker 2: Annapolis Nerve Endings, Citizen in Washington and now December of

62
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 2: forty one, and I thought that the speech that you

63
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 2: gave the other night, and I had the honor of

64
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:05,120
Speaker 2: introducing you at the Clover Club, the thought that the

65
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,400
Speaker 2: theme that you had was that it was eighty four

66
00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,680
Speaker 2: Decembers ago if you were nineteen forty one, and as

67
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 2: bad as many people find this December and we're watching

68
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,919
Speaker 2: play out on television tonight, this this horrific story that

69
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,760
Speaker 2: started at Brown University now apparently is leading to the

70
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 2: murder of a professor in Brookline. We were never we

71
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,000
Speaker 2: were never at a lower point than December of.

72
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 4: Nineteen forty one, Probably not when you consider the shock

73
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,920
Speaker 4: of the bombing of Pearl Harbor for most Americans who

74
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,480
Speaker 4: had spent the previous ten years crawling out of the

75
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:56,240
Speaker 4: depression to suddenly have the war thrust upon them. And yet,

76
00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 4: and yet Roosevelt had been preparing us for or he

77
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 4: had done his best to help the British, who needed

78
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,039
Speaker 4: all the help they could get in their resistance to

79
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:19,040
Speaker 4: the Nazis, particularly before the Nazis invaded Russia in June

80
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 4: of nineteen forty one, six months earlier. But Americans had

81
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 4: to be observant of what was going on in the

82
00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,000
Speaker 4: rest of the world and hoping that they wouldn't get

83
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 4: involved with it, on the one hand, but knowing that

84
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 4: it was inevitable. Consider the way that the world worked.

85
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 4: I opened in one of the versions of that book.

86
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,600
Speaker 4: I opened it with a kind of a newsreel taking

87
00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:57,479
Speaker 4: you around the globe, showing you the Japanese assaulting the

88
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,039
Speaker 4: Chinese in Manchuria in December of nineteen forty one, and

89
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 4: then traveling out toward the west, toward Moscow, where the

90
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 4: Germans had reached to within sight of the city of

91
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 4: Moscow before the Russians had finally launched a counter assault

92
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 4: that had driven the Germans back. The Nazis were ascended

93
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 4: across Europe, and then I stopped in England, which was

94
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,839
Speaker 4: surrounded by the German U boats, finally dropped down to

95
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:38,640
Speaker 4: where FDR was preparing his Day of Infamy speech, and

96
00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 4: that was where I decided, ultimately to open the book.

97
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 4: Because what Roosevelt provided on December eighth and in subsequent

98
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,839
Speaker 4: months with his fireside chats and his other speeches was

99
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:58,120
Speaker 4: tremendous leadership. He told he did not tell the American

100
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 4: people everything on December eighth, but he told them enough

101
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 4: and inspired immediate commitment from everybody across every political party.

102
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 4: You know, America First, the first version of America First,

103
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 4: had been founded in the thirties and had done rather

104
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 4: well as an isolationist organization. They dissolved themselves on December eighth,

105
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 4: nineteen forty one. They completely closed their doors and ended

106
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:36,320
Speaker 4: business because now we were all united by a common threat,

107
00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,640
Speaker 4: and FDR did a great job of reminding us of that.

108
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 4: On December eighth, nineteen forty one, one of the darkest

109
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 4: mornings in our history. And yet, as I said the

110
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,080
Speaker 4: other night to the group the other night, and as

111
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 4: I write in the book Action, the Action of that

112
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 4: of my novel, which is a suspense thriller about a

113
00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,360
Speaker 4: Nazi assassin who has to get from Los Angeles to

114
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,280
Speaker 4: Washington to shoot FDR on the night that he likes

115
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,000
Speaker 4: the National Christmas Tree on Christmas Eve. But I'm not

116
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 4: giving anything away to tell you that he is going

117
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 4: to be stopped by Americans who find it within themselves

118
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 4: to do things that they might never have thought that

119
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 4: they were capable of. And that's what happened with the

120
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,080
Speaker 4: whole country once that war started. And that's the hopeful

121
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,359
Speaker 4: aspect of December forty one. It was a dark Christmas,

122
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 4: but we rose out of it.

123
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:39,439
Speaker 5: Well.

124
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,640
Speaker 2: The thing that's always interesting is that when you do

125
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 2: the math World War II from December forty one to

126
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 2: August of forty five, and knowing what.

127
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,679
Speaker 4: Three and a half years I mean, yes.

128
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 2: I'm doing my math correctly, a little more than three

129
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 2: and a half three three and a half plus years.

130
00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 2: But world wars on fronts in Africa, Europe, as China,

131
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,480
Speaker 2: BREHM in India, UH, in the Atlantic, and we were

132
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,200
Speaker 2: able to pull that off. Now, the last war that

133
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 2: we've had is the war in the Middle East, which

134
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,200
Speaker 2: has gone on now for twenty years. The UH. It's

135
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 2: it's an entirely different theory, I guess, and we just

136
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 2: came together as a nation. What I want to do is,

137
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to open up phone lines. I'll tell you

138
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,719
Speaker 2: that we're also being told in my ear that there

139
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,760
Speaker 2: may be a press conference making and some announcements on

140
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 2: this in down in Rhode Island. Okay, if we have

141
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,280
Speaker 2: to break for that, I will beg your indulgence and

142
00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,840
Speaker 2: we will. But we will then finish up later on

143
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 2: or I will we can pick this up tomorrow night.

144
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 2: This is a huge news story. But at the same time,

145
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:56,120
Speaker 2: you're an important guest to me, and sometimes guests have

146
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 2: to have to stand aside for the breaking news but

147
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,040
Speaker 2: I know you above all, you know you will understand that,

148
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,959
Speaker 2: and I apologize for that in advance. But oftentimes when

149
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,760
Speaker 2: they say there'll be a news conference at nine thirty,

150
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,120
Speaker 2: well that's you can be sure it'll be ten thirty then.

151
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,360
Speaker 2: So I've been through enough of these in my career,

152
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 2: so we'll keep we'll keep our eye on it in

153
00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,079
Speaker 2: the meantime. And if you'd like to talk with Bill Martin.

154
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 2: William Martin, the author of so many great books. Here again,

155
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 2: he's someone who writes historical novels. These are these are

156
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,600
Speaker 2: history lessons, but there there is the story that he

157
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,320
Speaker 2: has to craft in order to bring that history lesson

158
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,680
Speaker 2: to life, and he does it magnificently well in all

159
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 2: of his books. If you're a William Martin fan and

160
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 2: you'd like to stop by and say hello, six one, seven, two, five, four,

161
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,080
Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one, ten thirty.

162
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 2: We're balancing some interest here, but we have one of

163
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,760
Speaker 2: the most interesting guests I could imagine, someone who knows

164
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,359
Speaker 2: how to write books. He learned it at Catholic Memorial

165
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 2: and of course a little bit at Harvard as well.

166
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,760
Speaker 2: But your English teachers at Catholic memorial must be very

167
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 2: proud that that student from the mid nineteen sixties went

168
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 2: on to have the career in literature that you've had.

169
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 2: We'll be back with William Martin. Maybe some phone calls

170
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,839
Speaker 2: and some more conversation six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,

171
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,000
Speaker 2: thirty six, one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty Nightside

172
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:20,640
Speaker 2: with Dan Ray.

173
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,760
Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,

174
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: Boston's news radio.

175
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 2: CBS News is now reporting that the Brown University shooting

176
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 2: suspect found dead in New Hampshire. According to sources, the

177
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 2: suspect in the December thirteenth mass shooting on the campus

178
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 2: of Brown University has been found dead in a storage

179
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,680
Speaker 2: unit in Salem, New Hampshire. Sources have told CBS News

180
00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 2: the shooting killed two students and moved to nine others.

181
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: Multiple sources familiar with the investigation have told CBS News

182
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 2: early Thursday that a person of interests have been identified

183
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 2: into shooting. Law enforcement is investigating possible connections between the

184
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,199
Speaker 2: Brown University shooting and the December fifteenth shooting death of

185
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:04,679
Speaker 2: forty seven year old Nuno Lurero, an MIT professor at

186
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,440
Speaker 2: his home in Brookline, Massachusetts. Multiple sources have told CBS

187
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,320
Speaker 2: News the Brown shooting occurred in the school's Embarrassed and

188
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,560
Speaker 2: Holly Engineering building during final exams. The shooting took place

189
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,320
Speaker 2: in the first floor classroom where students were taking part

190
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 2: in the study session. So at this point we now

191
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,080
Speaker 2: are looking that we have a conclusion to this story.

192
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 2: This shooter, this coward who walked into a classroom at

193
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,079
Speaker 2: Brown and indiscriminately killed two and wounded nine, has proven

194
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 2: himself to be the coward that he is and did

195
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 2: not surrender to police, but took his own life. Bill Martin,

196
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,520
Speaker 2: we're going to continue with you, and as they say,

197
00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 2: if this news conference comes along, I got a bunch

198
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 2: of people want to talk to you, and so let's

199
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 2: go immediately to callers, and we're going to also talk

200
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,280
Speaker 2: about I just think the December forty one book is

201
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,800
Speaker 2: an amazing book for those of us who enjoy history,

202
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 2: and it also gives such hope to all of us.

203
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,720
Speaker 2: Go first to David, did you make a plane? David?

204
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,200
Speaker 2: You were on with William Martin, the author of so

205
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 2: many great books, many of which are based here in

206
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 2: New England. You're next. Your first is Houray Nights Side.

207
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 1: David Oh, well, thank you, thank you, And it's incredible

208
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: to speak to a talent. You know, I wish I

209
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 1: knew you were better, so you would be my brush

210
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: with greatness, you know. I mean, You're.

211
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,680
Speaker 4: I taplay that world tonight.

212
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,600
Speaker 2: We do bill on Friday nights. Occasionally we do your

213
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 2: brush with Celebrity, and I think that's what David is

214
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 2: referring to. But go right ahead, David, You're getting a

215
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 2: chance to talk to William Martin that very few people

216
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 2: would get you. Go right ahead.

217
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,960
Speaker 1: Well, I just think that, you know, if you can

218
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: capture when we weren't, when we weren't fat and soft

219
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 1: in this country, you know what I mean, when men

220
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,959
Speaker 1: were men, you know what I mean, it's just uh, incredible, incredible.

221
00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,959
Speaker 4: Well, well, one of the things, one of the things

222
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 4: is that I try to get across to you in

223
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,240
Speaker 4: all of my historical fiction, and it's really why we

224
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:11,719
Speaker 4: read historical fiction is to see people that that are

225
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,920
Speaker 4: just like us, really, who rise to the occasion in

226
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 4: ways that I think all of us would or will

227
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 4: rise to the occasion if we are ever called upon

228
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 4: to do so. We might think we're fat and soft,

229
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 4: but I don't really think so. Hitler made that I.

230
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 1: Mean, there are there are heroes among us that we

231
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,760
Speaker 1: don't even know of, you know what I mean, that's

232
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 1: what that's what defines. That's what defines to me a

233
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,040
Speaker 1: man or a woman that rises to the occasion. It

234
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,320
Speaker 1: is a hero standing right, that's you like that guy

235
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 1: that grabbed the shooter in Australia. I mean, I mean

236
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 1: talk to me about I mean, I know that I

237
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,720
Speaker 1: was a little bit what do they call that when

238
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 1: you say something extraordinary or outlandish or whatever I believe

239
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,120
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, we're not that soft, but we are

240
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 1: capable of.

241
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 4: The Germans did not really understand that. Uh And and

242
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,240
Speaker 4: it was one of the reasons that Hitler felt just

243
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 4: perfectly comfortable on Thursday, December eleventh, just four days after

244
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 4: Pearl Harbor uh In declaring war in the United States.

245
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 4: It wasn't Roosevelt who declared war, it was it was Hitler,

246
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 4: and he felt that and his general staff was was

247
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 4: shocked that he did it because they had no plan

248
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 4: for fighting the industrial colossus on the other side of

249
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 4: the Atlantic. And he thought that Americans were soft. And

250
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 4: yet when if you go back and look at how

251
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 4: Americans responded to the calls of Roosevelt to a sacrifice. We,

252
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 4: even on the home front, did more sacrificing than the

253
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 4: Germans did at the beginning of World War Two.

254
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,680
Speaker 1: Well, I thank you, well, I thank you for turning

255
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 1: the clock back and letting us look at that through

256
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,440
Speaker 1: your words and in your book.

257
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 2: I just want to add, David, I just want to

258
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 2: add one thing to what Bill said. Hitler should have

259
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 2: learned about the strength of America at the nineteen thirty

260
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 2: six Berlin Olympics when Jesse Owens embarrassed him in the world.

261
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 2: And to carry on your thought, David, that people rise

262
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,120
Speaker 2: to the occasion. We were talking the other night before

263
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 2: this dinner about a long forgotten Red Sox catcher named

264
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:49,680
Speaker 2: Pete Day when William Martin, as a young lad, attended

265
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,200
Speaker 2: his first Major League baseball game at Fenway Park. Bill

266
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 2: tell that story. Who rose to the occasion that day

267
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 2: for the Red Sox. It wasn't Ted Williams.

268
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 4: Go ahead, Willim, It wasn't Ted Williams. It was Pete Daly,

269
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 4: who hit a three run home runs from the Red

270
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,679
Speaker 4: Sox to defeat the Baltimore Orioles in some game in

271
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 4: the summer of nineteen fifty seven. I was about seven.

272
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 4: I was seven years old when I saw that game,

273
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,440
Speaker 4: and I still remember it.

274
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the point is that you we expected well

275
00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 2: who hit the three run home run? Ted Williams man

276
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,160
Speaker 2: Jackie Jensen? Who knows? But if I think brun Stevens

277
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,200
Speaker 2: was no longer with them, but here's the backup catcher

278
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,600
Speaker 2: who he put the ball up where they had the

279
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,920
Speaker 2: luxury seats now and back in those days, it was

280
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 2: simply a big net.

281
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 4: It was the net.

282
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,359
Speaker 1: I think I think he might have been a communist.

283
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Thanks Pete. I'd rather thank thank you,

284
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 2: David talk.

285
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 1: So you got it, my friend, thank you.

286
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 2: All right, let me try to get one more caller

287
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 2: in here for William Martin, and if we have to

288
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 2: take the news conference, we can take. We will take

289
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 2: the news conference in time. But let me go next

290
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 2: to the phone lines have just blown up here for you,

291
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 2: mister Martin. Now you've got a lot of fans out there.

292
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 2: This is Pete in South Carolina. Pete, you're on with

293
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 2: William Martin right ahead.

294
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 3: Dan. I don't know how you do it, but every

295
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 3: time you you always get great guests. And mister Martin

296
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 3: I read some of your books. I am a fan

297
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 3: of World War Two. I am already ready to buy

298
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 3: December forty one, and maybe you could follow it up

299
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 3: with May of forty two for those of you who

300
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 3: know their history, they know it well, yeah, and June

301
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 3: of forty two.

302
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 4: But d you mean the Battle of Midway?

303
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 5: Absolutely well, you go back, if you go back in

304
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 5: my in my canon, you will find that in a

305
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 5: novel called Annapolis, which I published in nineteen ninety six,

306
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,640
Speaker 5: I write about the Battle of Midway.

307
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 3: So I will go back and reread it, and.

308
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,119
Speaker 4: For that for that which, which, by the way, for

309
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 4: anybody that's interested in military history of any kind, is

310
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 4: one of the most amazing battles you could ever study,

311
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:24,199
Speaker 4: because of all of the little the what ifs. You know,

312
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 4: what if the Japanese scout plane had been able to

313
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 4: land at French frigate showals, et cetera, et cetera. We

314
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 4: can go on and on and on with things that

315
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 4: most of the listeners right now wouldn't even know about.

316
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 4: But but it's a it's a battle filled with with

317
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 4: tiny twists. And you know, there's a great line in Shakespeare,

318
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 4: A horse, a horse my kingdom for a horse. Well,

319
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 4: the Japanese admirals made a lot of calls during that

320
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 4: battle that requirt that would have led them to hope

321
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 4: for a another horse in the middle of that.

322
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, I'll have to go back and read it.

323
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 3: But Dan, you caught me off guard again. You've got

324
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 3: a great guest, and I'm looking forward to reading the book.

325
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 3: And I know other people are waiting, and you've got

326
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 3: the news seed coming in. So Dan and Bill have

327
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 3: a happy holiday and a Mary Chris you.

328
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 2: Right, thank you so much, Thank you, take care, bye bye.

329
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 2: All right. What I would like to do Rob here

330
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,639
Speaker 2: is I'm going to hold off on the news because

331
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 2: at some point we're gonna have to take this news conference.

332
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 2: If that's my call, I'll stand by it. If that's okay,

333
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 2: I want to accommodate the callers here. Okay, let me

334
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,439
Speaker 2: go next to George Is in Bridgewater. Hey, George, you're

335
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:47,479
Speaker 2: on with William Martin.

336
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 6: Hey, how you doing Dan and William? George? Oh good, great, William.

337
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 6: I have a question. I studied World War II history.

338
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 7: I watched probably a thousand videos, but do you and

339
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 7: there's always been some talk about whether or not Roosevelt knew.

340
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 6: About the attack on Pearl Harbor. You what's your feeling

341
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 6: about that. Well, I've read, I've.

342
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 4: Read a lot of books about it, and I think

343
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 4: what what they knew was that something was up and

344
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 4: something was going to happen somewhere in the Pacific, and

345
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 4: they they had sent out bulletins to the commanders in

346
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 4: the Far Pacific, including MacArthur, saying something something's up. We

347
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 4: think it's going to happen in the Philippines. MacArthur should

348
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: have been more ready than he actually was, because eight

349
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 4: hours after the bombing of Pearl Harbor they hit the

350
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 4: Philippines and the planes were still on the ground in

351
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 4: the Philippines wingtip to wingtip. However, the suggestion that that

352
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 4: f knew that they were going to strike in the Hawaii,

353
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 4: I have always felt it's a little bit more than

354
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 4: I can swallow. First of all, what president is going

355
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 4: to weaken himself by destroying his Pacific fleet, basically by

356
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 4: allowing an enemy to destroy his whole left flank. The

357
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 4: the battleships were sunk at Pearl Harbor, though most of

358
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 4: them were all but two of them were raised and

359
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 4: used again. But I don't think Roosevelt fully understood that

360
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 4: the war in the Pacific in nineteen forty one to

361
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 4: forty five was going to be a war waged by

362
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 4: aircraft carriers, and yet all of our aircraft carriers were

363
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 4: not at Pearl Harbor. Did Roosevelt engineer that, I don't

364
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 4: think so. I think that was just it was good

365
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 4: luck on our part. Do you know if you go

366
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 4: to Pearl Harbor today, there is a monument on the

367
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 4: far side of Ford Island to the target ship, an

368
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 4: old battleship that had been turned into a target ship

369
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 4: called the Utah. It was at the ten ten dock,

370
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: as it was known. The Japanese flyers had been carefully trained.

371
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 4: Each of them had a task that day. One of

372
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 4: them was supposed to drop bombs on the Arizona, one

373
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: of them was supposed to run torpedoes at the Oklahoma,

374
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 4: and one of them was supposed to come around on

375
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 4: the other dock on the other side and fire all

376
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 4: of their torpedoes. One squadron into the vessel at the

377
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 4: ten ten dock, which normally was where the USS Enterprise,

378
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 4: the aircraft carrier, was normal, that's where it was moored,

379
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 4: but Japanese flyers came in and said, well, that ain't

380
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 4: no aircraft carrier, but we're gonna sink it anyway. So

381
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 4: they expected the carriers to be there. The carriers weren't there,

382
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 4: and that was a matter of luck for us, because

383
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 4: if the carriers had all been sunk at at Pearl Harbor,

384
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 4: the Battle of Midway, which we just referenced the moment ago,

385
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 4: never would have even been fought, you know. So that's

386
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 4: the long form answer. I don't think Roosevelt. Roosevelt wanted

387
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 4: us in the war. He knew we had to go

388
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 4: into the war, but I don't think he expected it

389
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 4: to happen like that.

390
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 6: Great George, welcome comes to Yeah, I probably don't it.

391
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 6: Buy that book, Dan, You have a very good all right.

392
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: George, Merry Christmas. Okay, talk soon, Yeah, Bill Martin. The

393
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: group is assembling and is going to tell us what's

394
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 2: going on down in Rhode Island. So as much as

395
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: I would like to keep our conversation going, I'm gonna

396
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 2: let you off and let's maybe pick this up right

397
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: after the first of the year. If that's what been

398
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: with you, okay, I would love it, Dan, Thank you

399
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 2: very much. Bill Martin.