1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: It's NIC's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: news Radio. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 2: It is night Side. Bradley Jay for Dan Colin joined 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 2: the conversation tonight six, one, seven, five, four, ten thirty. 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: And remember you can listen to Nightside anytime. You can 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 2: google Nightside on demand and you can listen to WBZ 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 2: News Radio ten thirty live of course, but online at 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app. And that's easy, and it's all good. 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,599 Speaker 2: We have one of my favorite guests, Bob Allison, who 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: is a professor of history at Suffolk University, and he 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: is on the the Chief I Guess of the Advisory 12 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: Board for a Revolution two fifteen, organization dedicated to marking 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: events related to the Revolution. Hello, Bob, let me ask 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: you right out of the gate. Are there any events 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: that took place significant events that took place on a 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: New Year's Eve during the Revolution. 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 3: Well, two hundred and fifty years ago today, American forces 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 3: were trying to capture Quebec, the citadel of Quebec, the 19 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: capital of Canada. The Americans actually occupied Montreal. A force 20 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 3: had gone up there hoping to get the French Canadians 21 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 3: to join them in the resistance, but it went somewhat okay, 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 3: The French really wanted to see the Americans take Quebec. 23 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 3: The British governor Guy Carlton had managed to get there 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: ahead of them. Benedict Arnold had led an army up. 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: Yes, why did the French want us to take Quebec 26 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: just to kind of prove that we had a shot. 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: So maybe they they. 28 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 3: Had already been through well, fifteen years earlier, the British 29 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 3: had taken Canada from the French, and the French folks 30 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: who were there were a little wary now of getting 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 3: into a fight between the British and other British the Americans, 32 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 3: and why would we subside with them? They could see 33 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 3: some of the rationale. Actually, some of the folks supporting 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 3: the Americans were English folks who had gone there after 35 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 3: England had taken Canada. Kind of a complicated story. But 36 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 3: the Americans thought, yes, they'll join us in this war 37 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: against the British because we don't want the British Empire 38 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: running things here. But some of the French said, well, 39 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 3: we're happy the British basically left us alone. They let 40 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 3: us keep remain Catholic and aren't taxing us the way 41 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 3: they are the Americans, but some we fear what might happen. 42 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: And anything bad for the British was good for the 43 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 2: French at that time, right. 44 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 3: It was, although these folks had kind of made their 45 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 3: peace with the British being in charge, and Guy Carlton, 46 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: who was the Governor General of Canada, was a pretty 47 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 3: effective guy in keeping the peace. And he manages to 48 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 3: escape as the Americans are taking Montreal. The Americans actually 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 3: have boats on the Saint Lawrence River, and he manages 50 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: to get away from them, gets to Quebec and knows 51 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 3: all he needs to do is stay there. The Americans 52 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: are trying to attack Quebec. If the British come out 53 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: and fight, then the Americans could take Quebec. But he 54 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 3: stays inside. 55 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: And I wanted to say, for a while Montreal was American, 56 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 2: but we weren't really. We went the US yet. 57 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 3: We weren't the US, but Americans. The Americans were occupying Montreal. 58 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 3: There were some English folks there who were supportive of 59 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 3: the Americans. And basically all the Canadians wanted to do 60 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 3: was trade. And if the Americans come in and want 61 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 3: to run things and let us keep trading with the Indians, 62 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 3: we will do that, but things go badly as the 63 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: American forces led by Richard Montgomery. He's actually an English 64 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 3: officer who had after that war between the British and 65 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 3: the French in the seventeen sixties, had retired to a 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 3: farm in New York, and now he's pulled into service 67 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 3: to lead this force up into Canada. And he does 68 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: a pretty effective job moving up Lake Champlain and to 69 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 3: the Saint Lawrence River. And meanwhile Benedict Garnold leaves a 70 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 3: force up through Maine to the Saint Lawrence River. 71 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: Because they wanted to also take Quebec. 72 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: Well, Quebec is the capital of Canada. It's the citadel, 73 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: the city that's the gate post to the Saint Lawrence. 74 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: It was a bigger deal in Montreal at the time, 75 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: probably because it was on the ocean, but. 76 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 3: Well almost on the ocean, it's still quite a ways 77 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 3: up the river. And remember in the winter, the river 78 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: is right right, it was on water, So the Americans 79 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: needed to get Quebec before the river thought. The British 80 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 3: get a fleet in to retake Quebec. That's why on 81 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 3: New Year's Eve of seventeen seventy five, Arnold and Montgomery 82 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 3: tried to storm the Citadel of Quebec. 83 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: Right now, right at this moment, two hundred and fifty 84 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 2: years ago. 85 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: At this moment, they are moving in trying to get it, 86 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 3: and Montgomery is killed and Arnold is wounded. He's shot 87 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 3: in the leg, never really recovers, and he has put 88 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 3: out of commission. Another American officer has to come up 89 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: from Montreal to try to shore things up, as the 90 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: British still don't leave the citadel, and now they have 91 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 3: this defeated American force kind of hanging out outside. Remember 92 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 3: this is now January. When you say citadel, you mean 93 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: it's a fortress. Is it still there? In the fortress 94 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 3: of the Citadel of Quebec is still there. 95 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: There's a spot with some cannon looking out over that. 96 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 3: That's it the citadel, and there's a lower town right 97 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: along the river, and that's they tried to thought we 98 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 3: could get in through the lower town if we come 99 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: in through behind the citadel. The British had done this 100 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 3: back in seventeen sixty they had taken Quebec from the French, 101 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: and in that case, the French general thought I'll go 102 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 3: out and give battle to the British outside the citadel. 103 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 3: He does, and it's a disaster. And so the British General, 104 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 3: now fifteen years later, says, all I need to do 105 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 3: is stay in here. They'll won't be able to take 106 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 3: the citadel, and they don't. 107 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: Okay. The reason I had you in is because I 108 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: focus a lot on Boston things. But I am making 109 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 2: a concerted effort to be more inclusive to the rest 110 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 2: of the state and the rest of New England, and 111 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 2: towards that end, I'm hoping that after this break you 112 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: will chat a bit about some of the things that happened, 113 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: some of the events that took place in the towns 114 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: and cities and the outlying areas. I don't mean to 115 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: say you are that outlying Worcester or Portsmouth, but not Boston. 116 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: It's not all about Boston, and I want to include 117 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: I want to enfranchise the rest of Massachusetts and New 118 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: England as well. And stuff did happen, like a lot 119 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: like the Pine Tree Rebellion, et cetera. And we'll find 120 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: out about that. And of course, Henry Knox, who brought 121 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 2: the cannon from Taekwona Roga to Dorchester Heights, went through 122 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: a lot of Massachusetts towns and we'll get into that 123 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: as well. On WBZ. 124 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. On WBZ, Boston's. 125 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: News Radio, we continue with Bob Allison, is one of 126 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 2: our history guests, focusing especially on the Revolutionary War period, 127 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: and we're including the rest of Massachusetts and New England 128 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: in our talk of the Revolution because we usually focus 129 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: on Boston. So I'm from New Hampshire. I'm curious to 130 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: know about a couple of things that might have happened 131 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: in New Hampshire. New Hampshire was very involved. They raised 132 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: Regiments one, two and three for the Revolution. But some 133 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: things happened up there. 134 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 3: Some things did in seventeen seventy two. The Pine Tree 135 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 3: Riot is it's called in weird New Hampshire. Wig name 136 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: for a band. It is Weird New Hampshire Pine Tree Riot. 137 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: They have pine That is a good name for a band. 138 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: Pine trees were reserved for the Royal Navy. The Royal 139 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: Navy needed big, tall pines for masts and so they 140 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 3: were off limits for anyone and what In fact, New 141 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: Hampshire was started as a lumber colony to provide masks 142 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 3: for the Royal Navy. 143 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I went to school in Durham, 144 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: and they had a road called Mast Road which was 145 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 2: the road that they would go out and cut down 146 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: trees for masts. That's which is consistent with what you said. 147 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so what happens in Weir is folks resist 148 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: this and the sheriff tries to arrest folks who are 149 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 3: preventing either taking the masts for themselves because remember New 150 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 3: Hampshire guys are banking ships and they have they have 151 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: use for mass as well, and the sheriff tries to 152 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: arrest them and stop them. A riot breaks out, there's 153 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 3: a jail break and indictments are handed out for the 154 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 3: ring leaders, but no one can be prosecuted or convicted 155 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 3: because juries aren't going to convict any of these people. 156 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: And they were under British law at the time. 157 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 3: They were, in fact the governors appointed by the crown. 158 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 3: Benning Wentworth or John Wentworth I think was the governor 159 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 3: at this time. They do have an assembly, but it 160 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 3: really is it's a royal colony. 161 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: So you had a jury. 162 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the British believe in trial by jury, but 163 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: again it's a jury of your peers and these guys 164 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: aren't going to find anyone guilty, and Wentworth realizes that 165 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: things are really slipping away here, that we don't have 166 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: the same authority that we used to. And this is 167 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 3: really one of the big conundrums of the revolution. It's 168 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 3: really not necessarily the guys and conquered with their guns. 169 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 3: It is town by town people deciding, Hey, we're going 170 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 3: to govern ourselves. And that's really the story of the revolution. 171 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: And it's something happening in New Hampshire and Massachusetts and 172 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: other places in towns as people have always governed themselves 173 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 3: in this way, and they the Parliament is making new 174 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 3: rules and enforcing old rules, and that's really what brings 175 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 3: on this resistance in the seventeen seventies. 176 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: So this was going on in these little towns. They 177 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 2: were deciding early on in each little town where they stood. 178 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: So by the time it became time to decide on 179 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: are we going to sign the declaration of independence? Are 180 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: we going to go with the patriots that had mostly 181 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: been decided adjudicated in these little towns already well. 182 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: In fact, in the spring of seventeen seventy six, the 183 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: Massachusetts Provincial Congress asks the towns for instructions how should 184 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 3: we vote on independence? So every town at its town 185 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 3: meeting debates this, and every town in Massachusetts except one 186 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 3: says yes, we would support independence, which is interesting. 187 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: They are about one hundred and fifty towns in Massachusetts, 188 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: and that one town begins with a bee. 189 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: It does begin with a bee, and it's on Cape Cod. 190 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,599 Speaker 3: It's the town of Barnstable. And it was kind of 191 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 3: embarrassing because Barnstable was the home of the Otis family, 192 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: or among the leading patriots in Massachusetts, and James Otis 193 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: Senior was the moderator of the town meeting. His son, 194 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 3: James Otis Junior, was this real firebrand lawyer, Mercy Otis Warren, 195 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 3: one of the daughters is writing plays. And Barnstable votes 196 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 3: against independence, really because there's another patriot family in town, 197 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 3: the Crockers. And the Crockers and the otis Is hate 198 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 3: each other and we don't really know why. Yeah, we 199 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 3: don't know. It made a lot of sense to them. 200 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 2: But they were both patriot families. 201 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 3: They were leading patriot families. In fact, the Crockers owned 202 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: a tavern, the Crocker Tavern, and it used to be 203 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 3: open to the public. Now it's a private residence. But 204 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 3: they said this was the Fanuel Hall of Cape Cod, 205 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 3: where the Crockers and the Otises met to plot independence. Well, 206 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 3: actually the Crockers and the Otises did meet there, but 207 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 3: it wasn't a plot. Independence was after a riot broke 208 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: out on the militia training ground when some Joseph Otis, 209 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 3: another Otis son was a captain in the militia, Seth 210 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 3: Crocker was a captain in the militia. Each had raised 211 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 3: his own militia company, and some of the Otises failed 212 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 3: to salute Captain Crocker as he went by, and the 213 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: Crocker said, you've got to salute Captain Crocker. They said, well, 214 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 3: he's not our captain. We don't have to salute him. 215 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: They said, well, yes you do, because he's a captain. 216 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 3: And you'll never guess what happens. All these armed guys 217 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 3: start fighting with each other, and the Otises chased the 218 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 3: Crockers into the Crocker tavern, and there are sword marks 219 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: in the beams of the Crocker tavern made by the 220 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: swords of the Otises trying to whack the Crockers over 221 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 3: this affront to Captain Captain Crocker's dignity. 222 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 2: So it wasn't just a you know, a brew if swords, 223 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: there's sword marks. They were having him. 224 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: That's right there. Yeah, it's a serious business. Yes. At 225 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 3: the next town meeting, they're debating, then should we be independent? 226 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: And there's a lead. There's a loyalist in town, a 227 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 3: guy named Edward Bacon. He says, what's going to happen 228 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 3: if we don't have anyone interceding between otises and crockers here, 229 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 3: they'll try to kill each other. This is what democracy 230 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 3: will be. There will be no check on this. Do 231 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 3: you really want that? And the people of Barnciple said no, 232 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 3: we don't. Furthermore than then elect Bacon to be their 233 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 3: representative to the provincial concess. 234 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: So they voted no because they thought this is what 235 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 2: democracy would. 236 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 3: Be, Yeah, be people trying to kill each other, and 237 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 3: what will stop them from doing that? And I think 238 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 3: one which is a good question, it's a very good question. 239 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 3: I think one of the real triumphs of the American 240 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: Revolution is we do replace the bad old government, but 241 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 3: we replace it with one that isn't worse. In fact, 242 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 3: one that is better, that's prevented us, for the most part, 243 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: from killing each other. When we get into political arguments 244 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 3: than the subsequent two hundred fifty years. 245 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of revolutions around the world. 246 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 3: That's right. 247 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: You're right. The subsequent government's worse. 248 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 3: That's right, and that's been usually as much worse. I 249 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: just want to mention, since we're on the subject of 250 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 3: New Year's Eve, New Year's Day tomorrow, two hundred and 251 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: fifty years ago tomorrow, the first Union flag was raised 252 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 3: in what is now Summerville at Prospect Hill. And in 253 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 3: fact they're commemorating that a parade le a procession leaves 254 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: from Somerville City Hall at eleven thirty and then from 255 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 3: eleven to twelve or twelve to one on Prospect Hill, 256 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: they're going to have ceremonies, they'll have flag making for kids. 257 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 3: This was really a signal for the unification of the colonies. 258 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 3: And the Union flag has thirteen red and white stripes, 259 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: and then in the field, as it's called, is the 260 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 3: Union Jack. So we're fighting for self government under still 261 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 3: the Empire, but we these thirteen colonies are united. It 262 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 3: still wasn't clear that independence was the goal, but this 263 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 3: was really a signal of a unification of the colonies 264 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 3: into one. 265 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 2: Cause you're a historian and well, this is maybe out 266 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: of here, out of your area, but we've been a 267 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: democracy or a form of representative government for two hundred 268 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: and fifty years now exactly? Is that worldwide a long 269 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: time for one government, especially a democratic type of government, 270 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: to survive. 271 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: Oh, yes, it's phenomenally long. 272 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: Which means it's hard to keep a democracy going. It's 273 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 2: very hard. And we assume that it's going to keep going. 274 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: But yeah, if you look historically, it may not. And 275 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: it's quite if history is any guide, it's unlikely that 276 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 2: it would continue. 277 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 3: It is at the Constitutional Convention they're talking about this 278 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 3: government they're creating, and someone talks about, well, what will 279 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: it be like in one hundred and fifty years, and 280 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 3: Nathaniel gorram Medeligate from Massachusetts is is it likely that 281 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 3: this country, including the western country meaning up to the 282 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 3: Mississippi River, will remain under one government one hundred and 283 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 3: fifty years from now? So it really is an achievement 284 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: to do this, to create a government that's lasted this long. 285 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 3: It's important to note too, the Massachusetts Constitution is the 286 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: oldest written constitution that is still functioning in the world. 287 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: Which you can see, Yes, where. 288 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: Can you see it at the Massachusetts State Archives at 289 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: Georcha and Dorchester, Columbia. Point the State Archives is a 290 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: wonderful museum, the Commonwealth Museum, or they have the first 291 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 3: page of it. They left one of their eight sheets 292 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 3: of parchment. They left the last one blank, anticipating there 293 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 3: might be amendments. But this parchment is it, and periodically 294 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 3: someone will come to see is there a comma here 295 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 3: or a period here? There have been numerous amendments since then, 296 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: but the structure of government remains the same. Really the 297 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 3: work of John Adams, who recognized human imperfection, the fact 298 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 3: that people often disagree, and that there are different interests, 299 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: rich versus poor, urban versus rural. So you create a 300 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: government that will balance these different interests and check each 301 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: one can check the other. So the legislative branch and 302 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 3: the executive branch, he said, our natural rivals. And if 303 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 3: one doesn't have a check on the other, the weaker 304 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: will ever be the lamb and the pause of the wolf. 305 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: So sometimes there are complaints about gridlock. If one party 306 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: can rolls one branch and not the other, they say, oh, 307 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: the gridlock is a bad thing. Gridlock was designed to 308 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 3: prevent majority tyranny. 309 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: In that building out on Columbia Point. That's the building 310 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: that I went and met you. Yes, okay, And there 311 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 2: was a man there who showed me a there's a 312 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 2: drum there that was actually in the Battle of Bunker Hills. Yes, 313 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: that is that astounds me. You can see right in 314 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: front of your face a drum that was at the 315 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: Battle of Bunker Hill. 316 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 3: They also have a Hessian helmet that was captured at Saratoga, 317 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: a helmet worn by a German soldier at the Battle 318 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 3: of Saratoga. It's tremendous the number of artifacts they have, 319 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 3: as well as documents there, and documents that really tell 320 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 3: the story of the beginning of government in Massachusetts, the 321 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 3: creation of this system of government. 322 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: All right, for this next question, do the best you can. 323 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: If you don't want to answer it, you don't have to. 324 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: As you look at what the four Fathers put together, 325 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: the founding fathers put together, is there anything, in having 326 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: the benefit of hindsight, that they you feel they should 327 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 2: have added or not included anything they should they just 328 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: couldn't foresee that didn't force Maybe the four saw it 329 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: but couldn't hammer anything out to control it. Would you 330 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: have added or subtracted from it. 331 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 3: Oh, what I have done versus what they might have done. 332 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 3: I think one of the big questions we have is 333 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: over the institution of slavery. Remember, the whole fight is 334 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 3: over liberty, and yet there are people enslaved, and many 335 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 3: of the enslavers are members of our revolutionaries. Samuel Johnson asks, 336 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 3: how is it we hear the loudest yelps for liberty 337 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: from the drivers of negro So that's one of the 338 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 3: great contradictions here. On the other hand, many of them 339 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 3: recognized this hypocrisy. 340 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: And I never would have happened though at all. 341 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 3: We don't know what would have happened. And we know 342 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 3: actually what happens with Native Americans. Know that the town 343 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 3: of Mashpee on Cape Cod, most of the men go 344 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: off to fight on the side of the rebels, and 345 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 3: most of them die in the war. And the Native 346 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: Americans are affected by the war in different ways. So 347 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 3: what could they have done differently? I don't know. I mean, 348 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 3: this was one of the most astonishing generations in the 349 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 3: history of the world. You know, try to imagine political 350 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 3: leaders today having the same ability to create a system 351 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 3: of government that will last two hundred and fifty years. 352 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 2: One thing that seems markedly different from than from today 353 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: is generally those funding fathers seem to have best interests 354 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: of the country at heart. I mean, I maybe Naiven, 355 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: they might have had financial reasons. It might have been 356 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 2: costly for them to exist in status quo, and they 357 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: figured way, you know, all these future potential British taxes 358 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 2: are hassled, they want to be done. But they seem 359 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: generally more altruistic and now and honest, maybe they weren't. 360 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: Maybe they were all just like politicians today, But now 361 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: I don't think you can even come close to get 362 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: elected to anything if you're completely honest. 363 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 3: I think there was a different idea of civic virtue, 364 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: that is, you put your interest aside as you put 365 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 3: in the interest of something greater. That's how we are judged. 366 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 3: And there was this idea that republics could only exist 367 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: where in a place where there was civic virtue, this 368 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 3: sense of an obligation to something greater than yourself. And 369 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 3: that really what was driving this, that everyone had to 370 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 3: feel this same sense of this. And there were people 371 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: then canivers self interested folks, there were crooks, there were others. 372 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 3: In fact, it's somewhat reassuring to look at history and 373 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 3: see just how much depravity there was. 374 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear that. 375 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that they weren't all Washington or Franklin, and so 376 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 3: we get this idea that everyone was. Those guys were 377 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 3: somewhat rare in their own day, which is why they 378 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 3: out so much. 379 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: Well, if you say that a democracy can't really exist 380 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: with our civic virtue and we don't have a lot 381 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 2: of civic virtue, I fear for the future. 382 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 3: So do I. You know, Franklin wrote it. He said 383 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 3: he thought this government would operate tolerably well as long 384 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 3: as there was a civic virtue. He said once that 385 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 3: was gone, it likely would devolve into tyranny if the 386 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 3: people couldn't be governed any other way. There's a great 387 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: moment at some point during the Constitutional Convention when Elizabeth 388 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 3: Willing Powell, who's a Philadelphia socialite, asks him what kind 389 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 3: of government are you creating? Is it a monarchy or 390 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: is it a republic? And he said it's a republic 391 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 3: if you can keep it. 392 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 2: By the way back, one quick thing, referring back to 393 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 2: what happened two hundred and fifty years ago. Right now, tonight. 394 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 2: I didn't know this, and I bet no very few 395 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: others know. Ben Franklin was in Quebec, he was in Montreal, Montreal, 396 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: he was in Canada. Yes, and he was doing what 397 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 2: he does, what he did in France, he was trying 398 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: to do in Canada. 399 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, Congress sends him a small delegation, Samuel Chase from Maryland. 400 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 3: They also send John Carroll, who's a Catholic priest, knowing 401 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 3: that the French are mainly Catholic, that Franklin is someone 402 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 3: who is universally known, they will help bring Canada onto 403 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 3: our side. And by the time Franklin and Carol and 404 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 3: Chase get there, they realize this is kind of a 405 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 3: hopeless cause that there's no way the Americans can maintain 406 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 3: the loyalty of the Canadian people. So they essentially Franklin 407 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 3: and Carol are part of the exodus. But yeah, Franklin 408 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 3: is in Montreal in April of seventeen seventy six, and 409 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 3: I just. 410 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 2: Picture how different it was. Then they say, Ben, look, 411 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 2: we really need you to go up to Canada and 412 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 2: try to fix things. So Ben says, okay, which means 413 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 2: he's got to go all the way up there. Far 414 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: far right. 415 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 3: They get to upstate New York. They're in Saratoga with 416 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 3: Philip Scott, who is the General in charge of the 417 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 3: Northern Army, and there's still about more than a foot 418 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 3: of snow on the ground. This is April of seventeen 419 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 3: seventy six, and they have to continue on to get 420 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 3: to Montreal. Going along the ice is just broken on 421 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 3: Lake Champlain and they're on a boat. They pull over 422 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 3: at nights they can light a fire, and this guy's 423 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 3: in his seventies and it's a miserable trip, but they're 424 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 3: doing this out of this duty, this obligation to this 425 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 3: cause greater than themselves. 426 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a break, and after the break, we 427 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 2: will continue with events during the Revolution that took place 428 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: other than Boston, so we can include an enfranchise the 429 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 2: surrounding area, the towns and cities in our conversation on WBZ. 430 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: E's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's News Radio. 431 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: Let's continue with our guest Bob Allison talking about the 432 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 2: Revolution which happened well two hundred and fifty years ago, 433 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 2: and some it has took place tonight, but we're going 434 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 2: to we've covered those and we're going to get in 435 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 2: some others that happened in the towns, in the cities 436 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: and towns around Massachusetts and New England. We did talk 437 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: about New Hampshire a little bit, but there was another 438 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 2: event called that took place in Portsmouth. Can you talk 439 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: about that a little bit. 440 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was actually in seventeen seventy four. There's a 441 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 3: Fort William and Mary and General Thomas Gage, who's the 442 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 3: commander of the governor of Massachusetts also commander of the 443 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 3: military forces, realizes that there is munitions up there that 444 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: he wants to get so that the patriots don't get 445 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 3: their hands on them. So he sends up a force, 446 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 3: but first Paul Revere gets there, alerts the local militia 447 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: and they wind up taking the garrison and getting all 448 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 3: the munitions out and bringing them to the rebels, which 449 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 3: is what Gauge didn't want to happen. And by the way, 450 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 3: another thing we recently learned is a Gauge, realizing the 451 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 3: British couldn't blockade the entire American coast, thought about having 452 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 3: a fifty four mile chain strung from the tip of 453 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: Cape Cod to Cape Ann that would keep shit out 454 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 3: of the Yeah, yeah, Yeah, a chain maybe six feet 455 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 3: under the water. I don't think anyone ever builds it. 456 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 3: He puts out a contract saying, hey, can anyone help 457 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 3: me build this chain? 458 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 2: Well that's what that's what Russia does to protect itself 459 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 2: against Ukrainian subs in their subject pens. Yes, and this 460 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: was just on a larger scale, a bunch. 461 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 3: Of larger scale. 462 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: Yes. 463 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. In fact, one of the big things that was 464 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: happening actually in the winter of seventeen seventy six at 465 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: this time was Henry Knox was bringing cannon from Fort 466 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 3: Tykonder Rogan Lake Champlain to lift the siege of Balls. 467 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to talk about all the cities and 468 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 2: towns involved with that. That's a good time to begin that. 469 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 3: Yes, So actually we will be commemorating these things. So 470 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 3: on the tenth of January, a week and a half 471 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 3: from now, in Great Barrington as well as An Alfred 472 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 3: on the Massachusetts border and in Great Barrington at the 473 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 3: Mahawi Theater, there will be a ceremony. We'll have Oxen, 474 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: we'll have cannon to commemorate the noble train of artillery. 475 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 3: And then every Saturday through February will be at another 476 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 3: place in Massachusetts commemorating this In the nineteen twenties, Massachusetts 477 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 3: and New York put up markers along this roadway. Some 478 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 3: guys in Otis realized that it wasn't really marking where 479 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 3: the trail happened. So they went into the woods and 480 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 3: they found the original route of Knox's artillery well by 481 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 3: looking at maps, going to the state archives, and looking 482 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 3: at documents that also traced the map. 483 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 2: So they were Knox's group was taking notes as they went. 484 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: I guess the Knox has a journal, so you know, 485 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 3: maybe we. 486 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: Should back up and explain Henry Knox who he was 487 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 2: and what he did, and then get back into the route. 488 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 3: Okay, So Henry Knox was a bookseller in Boston. He 489 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,719 Speaker 3: had a bookstore in Cornhill, which is near Government Center today, 490 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 3: and he sold a lot of He was interested in 491 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 3: military science, and so he had built a fort in 492 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 3: Roxbury and on his own. He with a group of guys. 493 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 3: He had been part of a militia company. But he's 494 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: a guy who understood military stars and he impresses Washington. 495 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 3: Knox is twenty four years old at this time. 496 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 2: How did he meet in Washington to impress him? 497 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 3: Washington arrived in July of seventeen seventy five. Henry Knox 498 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 3: knows Washington is going to go inspecting all the way 499 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 3: to Dorchester Heights and so knocks him down on the road, 500 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 3: sees him, flags him down and says, come see the 501 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 3: fort I built. And so Washington goes and sees it 502 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 3: and is impressed. Here's a guy who understands how to 503 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 3: build fort. 504 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 2: Interesting. 505 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: So he gives Knox kind of a good news bad 506 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: news proposition. The good news, I'm going to put you 507 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 3: in charge of all the artillery in the Continental Army. 508 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 3: The bad news is you have to go to Fort 509 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 3: Taykonderroga three hundred miles away and get it and bring 510 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 3: it back. 511 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: So I'm not right then, not right on the spot? 512 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: Or was it right? 513 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 3: It wasn't on the spot, but unders And so he 514 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 3: asks Knox to do a survey of all the artillery 515 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 3: that the army has, what's what they need, and then 516 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 3: sends him off. And Taykonderoga had been captured in May 517 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 3: of seventeen seventy five by Benedict Arnold and Ethan Allen. 518 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 2: And basically without a fight, right, without. 519 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 3: A fight, Yeah, And so Knox knew that's where the 520 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 3: artillery is, So in December of seventeen seventy five he 521 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: goes to Fort Tykonderoga as well as to another of 522 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: Fort George on Lake Champlain and gets this artillery, builds sleds, 523 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 3: and then hires teamsters to start dragging it back along 524 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: the frozen roads. They need to have the roads frozen 525 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 3: because each piece of artillery weighs about one thousand pounds, 526 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: so it's really heavy artillery they are bringing back on 527 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 3: sledgs pulled by horses and oxen. How many pieces about 528 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 3: sixty pieces of artillery fifty nine to sixty two, somewhere 529 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 3: in that range. And they're also tied to ropes because 530 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 3: if they're crossing a frozen river or a frozen lake 531 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 3: and they start to break through, they need some way 532 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 3: of pulling them out. It do have a few drop through, 533 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 3: and then the men have to pull these cannon from 534 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 3: the bottom of the river or the bottom of the lake. 535 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 2: I can't imagine we none of us can imagine how hard, 536 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 2: how tough people had to be back then they really Oh, 537 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: by the way, if this cannon breaks through the ice, 538 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 2: you need to figure right away to pull it back 539 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 2: up and it weighs, by the way, it weighs one 540 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 2: thousand pounds. Yeah, and as ice on top. 541 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 3: That's right, yes, And Knox would go out, have guys 542 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 3: go out the night before if they're going to cross, 543 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 3: and drill holes in the ice, so then water will 544 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: come up and form on top of the ice and 545 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 3: harden it the next day and by the next day 546 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 3: when they're crossing with oxen horses, and if something starts 547 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 3: to break through, they are going to cut so that 548 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 3: the oxen and horses aren't pulled in. 549 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: Wow. 550 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 3: But they also have barrels attached to the cannon, and 551 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 3: that kind of like booyze to mark the spot where 552 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 3: the cannon is. So a great deal of planning goes 553 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 3: into this. Knox writes about holding these things then houlding 554 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: them up the mountains, up the Berkshires is one challenge. 555 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 3: Getting them down is also a challenge, because they're going 556 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: to run over a horse or an ox And who's 557 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 3: in front of the artillery. 558 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: How many miles is that trip? 559 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 3: It's about three hundred miles. 560 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 2: Three hundred miles. How long did it take them? 561 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 3: They started actually in early January, and Knox writes to 562 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: Washington in December, saying within two weeks I expect to 563 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 3: deliver and noble train of artillery. They actually don't get 564 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: it too until the toward the end of January, so 565 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 3: it's about six weeks that they are in motion. 566 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 2: Six weeks getting up and back. 567 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 3: No, no, six weeks getting back. Okay, First Knox had 568 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: to go to New York to see if New York 569 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 3: would loan them any artillery, and they said no, the 570 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 3: Army the Continental Congress still hasn't paid us for We've 571 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: already loaned them. We're not giving them any more. So 572 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 3: they have to go up to Tekondoo get to get it. 573 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 3: Knox had left Boss left Cambridge in November and gets 574 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 3: back at the end of January, gets the can into 575 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 3: Framingham and then goes to tell Washington this is where 576 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: the cannon are. And then John Adams goes to look 577 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 3: at the canon the next day as he's on his 578 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: way back to Congress. 579 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: Okay, now back to the back in the twenties, they 580 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 2: decided to mark the actual exact room, which is something 581 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: I'm very much interested in. I don't want a vague 582 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 2: they came through town. I want to know. I want 583 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: to stand right here and know that they came right through. 584 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: And so there are those markers. Can you run through 585 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: the times that the towns and that he came through 586 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 2: and the towns that will be involved in things you 587 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 2: do well. 588 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: Fortunately, I have a Revolution two fifty scarf which if 589 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 3: you go to our website Revolution two fifty Revolution two 590 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 3: five oo dot org you can find one of these 591 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 3: that has all of the towns from Fort Ticonderoga Alford 592 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 3: in Massachusetts is where they cross the border, and there 593 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 3: will be a ceremony there Saturday the tenth, Alfred Egremont, 594 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 3: Great Barrington, Great Barrington's We're going to have our settlement Monterey, Otis. 595 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 2: So the scarf lists all the towns on the route. 596 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 3: Yes, up to Brighton, Roxbury, South Boston, March seventeenth. In 597 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 3: South Boston we will commemorate evacuation Day. 598 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: And it says Henry Knox twentyes. Oh and it's it's 599 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: not cheap, it's not this is a nice, super nice. 600 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: I should have brought you one now I'm sorry. Yes, 601 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 2: you bring that next time by buy one of these. 602 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 2: Where where can. 603 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 3: The Revolution two five zero dot org The Revolution two 604 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 3: fifty website. We have a couple of different scarfs, and 605 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: make sure you look for the Knox Trail one. 606 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of it says Knox Trail two fifty. 607 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 2: It's got a picture of a cannon on it. Yep, 608 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 2: but it's not the My point is, folks, it's not 609 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 2: this cheap stretchy ill. This is this is made by 610 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 2: these It seems like somebody from back then would have 611 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: made it. 612 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,479 Speaker 3: It does, it's very well and it made Extub, a 613 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 3: company that makes scarves for European soccer teams. 614 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 2: It's wool. 615 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 3: I think it is wool. Actually that is nice. 616 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: So uh, now, did you run through all the towns? 617 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 3: Not all the towns there there are quite In fact, 618 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 3: there are about thirty markers in Massachusetts. 619 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 2: YT's break and we will go through the towns and 620 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: you can talk about you have in detail the events 621 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 2: that are taking place along these dots. 622 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 3: Okay, it's night Side with. 623 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: Boston's News Radio. 624 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 2: Our guess is Bob Allison. He's, you know, kind of 625 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 2: one of the bosses of Rev two fifty, an organization 626 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: very involved in marketing events related to the revolution. On 627 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 2: the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, I just want you 628 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: to all to know that I have purchased with my 629 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 2: own money. I did not beg one from Bob the 630 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 2: Knox Trail to fifty scarf because it's it's fantastic. If 631 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 2: you're in the history and you see this thing, you're 632 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 2: going to flip out. If you wear it out, Everyone's 633 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: going to say, Wow, that's beautiful. Who's Henry Knox. 634 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: I find people staring at me now when I'm wearing 635 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 3: it and asking it, wondering who is Henry Knox and 636 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 3: what's the Knox Trail. And we're commemorating the Knox Trail 637 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 3: in January and in February, stopping in different towns. Actually, 638 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 3: because there are so many towns, a lot of towns 639 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 3: are doing their own events, but we are having big 640 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 3: events in a couple of centers. So in Great Barrington 641 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 3: on the tenth of January we'll have Oxen cannon canon 642 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 3: demonstration other things than the following week and the seventeenth 643 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 3: and spring Field at the Springfield Armory. Henry Knox, by 644 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 3: the way, thought this would be a good place to 645 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 3: put an armory in Springfield. And then on the thirty 646 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 3: first in Worcester, and Worcester was an important place for 647 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 3: revolutionary events. And then in February actually February thirteenth in 648 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 3: Framingham and framing him is where the Knox placed the canon. 649 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 3: He went off to tell Washington, but then in Or 650 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 3: in mid February, and the twenty actually end of February, 651 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 3: in Cambridge on the twenty seventh, and then in Roxbury 652 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 3: the following weekend on the seventh, and then Dorchester Heights 653 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 3: on March seventeenth. That's evacuation Day every year, always a 654 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 3: big event. 655 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 2: We have to go through Evacuation Day very briefly, but 656 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 2: with as much detail as we can get in briefly. 657 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 2: It's a big deal. These it's the you know, the 658 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 2: this frosting on top of this, a trail of sixty 659 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: thousand pounds artillery pieces through the winter, three hundred miles 660 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: incredible thing. And then when they get here they bring 661 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: him to the top of Dorchester High where that results 662 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 2: in the British leaving. There are a couple of details 663 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: to talk about there. How long after they got here 664 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 2: into town did they get them up on the hill. 665 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 3: They actually started the operation to move them up on 666 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 3: March fourth, and on March fifth they have put the 667 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 3: fortifications to the top of Dorchester. 668 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 2: The fortifications include more than cannon. They include breastworks rest 669 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: where breastworks. 670 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 3: The Americans were afraid of getting shot in the legs, 671 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 3: so they would make a fence and actually they made 672 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 3: this with things called chandeliers. They would put a couple 673 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 3: of pieces of wood together and make a frame and 674 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 3: then fill that with sticks and logs. The ground was 675 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 3: too hard to dig into, so they had to make 676 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 3: all of this stuff in Roxbury and Dorchester cutting down trees, 677 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 3: then haul all of that stuff up along with rocks. 678 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 3: They had webbing filled with rocks. They called this barrels, 679 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 3: and then those also acted as part of the fortification. 680 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 3: And also if the British start coming up the height, 681 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 3: they can push these down the role that rolled down. 682 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 3: And so they make these fortifications on the night of 683 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 3: March fourth, by the morning of March fifth there there 684 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 3: then they have been firing from Leechmere Point in Cambridge 685 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 3: at the British diversion as a diversion, also to cover 686 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 3: the noise. The British will think we're coming from that direction. Meanwhile, 687 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 3: we're putting fortifications south of town. And then they put 688 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 3: another fortification at what's then Nook Hill. It's now roughly 689 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 3: the corner of b Street and Broadway in South Boston. 690 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 3: I know we wanted to talk about things outside of Boston. 691 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 3: Now we are talking about this. And by the way, 692 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 3: another thing to remember is most of the men involved 693 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 3: were from other places. In fact, over the course of 694 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 3: the war, more men from Massachusetts serve in the Continental 695 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 3: Army than from any other state. That's for the next 696 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 3: eight years, and every town is going to be involved 697 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 3: in this, having to fill its quota of soldiers. And 698 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 3: just I want to make sure I have time to 699 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 3: mention a thing happening in April, either the nineteenth or 700 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 3: twenty at the town of Medford is putting up a 701 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 3: statue to a woman named Sarah Bradley Fulton. This was 702 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 3: considered the mother of the Boston Tea Party, and so 703 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 3: they're building a statue to her in Medford. A very 704 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 3: exciting event that will be happening around Patriot's Day. But 705 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 3: back to evacuation Day, A. 706 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 2: Couple of questions, Sir, why didn't they start building these 707 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 2: fortifications prior to the cannon coming up there? 708 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 3: Because then the British would storm the heights and take them. 709 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 3: And that's what they thought. The British were going to do. 710 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 3: And in fact, on about the ninth or tenth of March, 711 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 3: the British do try to storm the heights, and it's 712 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 3: kind of a good thing. 713 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 2: Happens. 714 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 3: A big storm disrupts the British attack, and it's a 715 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 3: good thing because it disrupts the attack. Also, because Washington 716 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 3: really wanted to have a battle, he wanted to go 717 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 3: into Boston. When the British left to go attack Dorchester Heights, 718 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 3: he wanted to bring his force across the back Bay 719 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 3: from Cambridge and attack Boston, and that probably would not 720 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 3: have worked. Washington kept wanting another battle. His generals kept saying, well, 721 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 3: was Washington knew about Bunker Hill, what a big blow 722 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 3: that was to the British. And Washington thinks, all we 723 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 3: need to do is do that again, as generals say, 724 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 3: that was really a fluke. Next time we get into 725 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 3: a big battle, we're likely to lose, right, and we don't. 726 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 2: Have been catastrophic at that point. It would have been okay. 727 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 2: So they get up there in one night, they build 728 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 2: these breastworks and they drag the cannon and how many 729 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 2: did they actually drag up that? 730 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 3: I don't know. What we do know is not all 731 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 3: of the guns the British thought were pointed at them 732 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 3: actually were guns. They also brought up some logs they 733 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 3: had painted black to look like guns. And also they 734 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 3: didn't have a whole lot of ammunition. They didn't have 735 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 3: a lot of gunpowder or cannon balls. There was one 736 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 3: cannon ball at least lodged in a church steeple in 737 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 3: Brattle Square, roughly where the government's Center Tees station is now. 738 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 3: Henry Cabot Lodge, who spoke at the dedication of the 739 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 3: doorch Chester Heights monument in nineteen oh two, talked about 740 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 3: that cannon bull imagining being fired from Dorchester Heights. You 741 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 3: know that far. But they don't have that many cannon 742 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 3: balls to fire. 743 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: Very short time. The British could have burned down Boston 744 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 2: before they left, Yes, they could have. They so they 745 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 2: looked up and they said, oh, there a cannon They 746 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 2: could hurt our ships. We got to leave. But they 747 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 2: could have burned down Boston. And why didn't they? Was 748 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 2: there some sort of deal made that? 749 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 3: Actually the chairman of the Board of Selectionment of Boston 750 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 3: comes to the lines with a message for General Washington, 751 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 3: and it says he had heard General House say if 752 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 3: the Americans don't fire on the British fleet as they 753 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 3: are leaving, the British won't burn Boston. 754 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 2: As a deal. 755 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 3: Well, it wasn't really a deal. Washington says. This is 756 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 3: not an official communication, but it gives him an indication 757 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 3: the British are going to leave, so they don't. They 758 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 3: do fire, but not they're not going to attack Boston. 759 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 3: They're going to let the British leave. And so they 760 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 3: watch and on March seventeenth, they see the British have 761 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 3: loaded all the ships. They've also loaded about eleven hundred 762 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 3: loyalists onto the ships, and then they sail off. By 763 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 3: this time, Washington realizes the fight's going to go to 764 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 3: New York. So we started sending men to New York, 765 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 3: and the British evacuate Boston on March seventeenth, and that 766 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 3: really is Massachusetts' independence. 767 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, great, great, great hour, Bob Allison, thank you so 768 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 2: very much. And again there's a lot of if you're 769 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 2: into the Revolution and things like this, Henry not knock Scarf, 770 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 2: it's the Revolution two fifty dot org. What all I 771 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 2: did was google Revolution two fifty Henry Knock Scarf, and 772 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 2: I got to all the merchandise. 773 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 3: Now I will tell you about the other events happening 774 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 3: to commemorate the Knox Trail. 775 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 2: Okay, that's right, Well, thank you so much. We have 776 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 2: Brian Kane coming up, who is the executive director of 777 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 2: the MBT Board of Advisors, to really explain to us 778 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 2: how important transportation is and how it affects everything from 779 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 2: how much money you make to your healthcare, to where 780 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 2: you live, et cetera. And that's next on WBZ.