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Speaker 1: Mike, Michael, I just got in for it, blowing three

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Speaker 1: feet of snow.

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Speaker 2: I'm tired. It's not even wider yet. It's only December.

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Speaker 3: We got January, February, March, April, oh maybe May.

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Speaker 2: Uh gee, I'm tired.

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Speaker 1: I could tell you're tired, sir, because there's no snow,

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Speaker 1: at least not where I am.

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Speaker 2: I wonder where you are dragged? Where is he? It's

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Speaker 2: bright and sunshiny outside right now. I mean I've tried

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Speaker 2: to close the blinds. The sun is too bright. Oh

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Speaker 2: my goodness.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy sangen Berger here with you from Michael Brown today

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Speaker 1: on this Friday. It is beautiful, very nice and sunny out.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where he's coming from, but you know

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Speaker 1: what I do now is that we have a trade

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Speaker 1: war going on. Actually, we've got several different trade wars

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Speaker 1: going on, and there's so much to be said about this,

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Speaker 1: but some things that also are absent from the discussions,

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Speaker 1: such as a consideration of how you balance issues like

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Speaker 1: the head and the heart when you're concerned about people

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Speaker 1: losing jobs overseas because manufacturing is being shipped elsewhere, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time people are being squeezed by higher

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Speaker 1: prices or difficulties in dealing with the trade issues that

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Speaker 1: are going.

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Speaker 2: On, and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of balancing to go on, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes we don't talk about it, which is why I'm

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Speaker 1: very pleased to welcome here to Koa Jack Butler, deputy

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Speaker 1: opinion editor at the Wall Street Journal, who had a

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Speaker 1: fascinating piece this week that really talks about that balance,

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Speaker 1: confession of a cheap imports enjoyer. Oh my gosh, Brokes,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, we have an enjoyer of cheap imports

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Speaker 1: on the program. I don't know how we should feel

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Speaker 1: about that, except.

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Speaker 2: To say I'm very glad he's here to talk with us.

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Speaker 2: Jack Butler, welcome, Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Guilty of charge.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: That headline and the premise, because you talk about because

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Speaker 1: you just started a couple months ago at the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal as deputy opinion editor, congratulations, And you talk

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Speaker 1: about moving into your Manhattan apartment earlier.

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Speaker 2: This year, which sets the stage.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into the broader trade stuff that

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Speaker 1: you talk about, set the scene for us.

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Speaker 4: Well, the scene is pretty stark. It's an empty apartment,

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Speaker 4: with nothing in it, and that's where I was sitting

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Speaker 4: earlier this year, before my movers got Manhattan. I sort

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Speaker 4: of beat them to the city, and so I had

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Speaker 4: the chance just to sit in my completely empty apartment

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Speaker 4: and think about how the heck I'm going to fill

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Speaker 4: this thing up with stuff. Now. I had a few

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Speaker 4: things that were on the way with the mover's bed

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Speaker 4: dresser a desk, but I still needed a bunch of

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Speaker 4: other st and I needed it fast, and I needed

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Speaker 4: it cheap. And I was able to find a whole

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Speaker 4: bunch of things that are now in my apartment and

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Speaker 4: make my time living there easier. Unfortunately, very few of

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Speaker 4: them were made in the United States, and many of

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Speaker 4: them were made in China. So at the same time

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Speaker 4: that I felt grateful that I was able to fult

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Speaker 4: my apartment quickly, I felt a guilty for some reason

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Speaker 4: that I can't quite explain rationally. But we'll get into

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Speaker 4: this division between the head and the heart in a bit,

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Speaker 4: I'm sure.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I have to say, it's interesting how

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Speaker 5: you felt this little tinge of guilt, because I am

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Speaker 5: Since I first got a smartphone in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: I've always been a Samsung user. That's South Korean. Almost

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Speaker 1: all of my cars have been Hyndais. In some cases

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Speaker 1: I've had bad luck. I'm a three time victim of

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Speaker 1: auto theft, and I've learned some lessons about what I

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Speaker 1: need to do to protect the gets that, especially with Hyundais.

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Speaker 1: So that's also South Korean. So I buy all these

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Speaker 1: things that are foreign made, and I don't have a

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Speaker 1: problem with it, generally speaking. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: there is this urge, right, this patriotic sense that, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should be buying more American stuff, and there's

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Speaker 1: too much stuff from other countries.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I feel that at the same time that

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Speaker 4: I look. I attended Hillsdale College, where I got an

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Speaker 4: extllent education economics that worked at the Wall Street Journal,

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Speaker 4: where we heavily what we believe is out free trade.

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Speaker 4: So all this stuff I've internalized and all that I

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Speaker 4: buy on a rational level. Comparative advantage is a thing.

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Speaker 4: Certain countries have advantages in making things over other countries.

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Speaker 4: America still makes a ton of stuff, it's just different

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Speaker 4: from the stuff that other countries make. So I internalize

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Speaker 4: all that again in my head, but in my heart,

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Speaker 4: I'm from Ohio. I've been through, been in driven past.

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Speaker 4: Some of these places Lordstown, Portsmouth, Ironton that have seen

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Speaker 4: better days, and I hope that they'll see better days again,

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Speaker 4: and in some cases they are kind of recovering in

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Speaker 4: certain respects. But I can't in my heart, I can't

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Speaker 4: entirely disentangle this ready availability of cheap goods from the

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Speaker 4: fact that certain places in this country have been concretely

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Speaker 4: and specifically affected by the trade regime. So that's the

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Speaker 4: division between the head and the heart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this brings me to part of your piece

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Speaker 1: Jack Butler again, Deputy opinion editor at The Wall Street Journal,

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Speaker 1: where after describing some of the drawbacks that we've seen

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Speaker 1: or some of the communities that have been disrupted, you

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Speaker 1: talk about if free traders can't figure out how to

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Speaker 1: talk to such people, that is, those whose families used

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Speaker 1: to be in manufacturing or what have you, and feel

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Speaker 1: that they have been hurt by free trade, then they'll lose.

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Speaker 1: And that Ye, it's to such an important point, Jack,

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Speaker 1: especially at this moment when the President of the United

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Speaker 1: States is far from a free trade guy, when a

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Speaker 1: heck of a lot of Republicans have been drawn into

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Speaker 1: the notion that protectionism is the way to go. How

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Speaker 1: can those who believe in and support free trade and

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Speaker 1: understand the real world economics of it all, how can

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Speaker 1: they make the pitch better? How can they talk to

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Speaker 1: such people? As you write, Well, you're very right.

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Speaker 4: I think that to the extent that free traders are

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Speaker 4: on the back foot, it's because of a failure to

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Speaker 4: have communicated properly with people who. Again you see the

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Speaker 4: benefits of free trade, they're often spread throughout the whole

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Speaker 4: economy and can be less visible. Lower prices and the

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Speaker 4: aggregate are nice, but it's hard to point that out.

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Speaker 4: But it's very easy to point out the factory in

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Speaker 4: Portsmouth closed, or the factory in Youngstown closed, whatever whatever

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Speaker 4: place it is. And so I think that to actually

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Speaker 4: make the case, you need to concretely identify instances in

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Speaker 4: which trade is supporting jobs in places, or trade is

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Speaker 4: making goods cheaper, and point out which goods they are

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Speaker 4: and how people's lives benefit from them. You can also

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Speaker 4: point out instances I've been focusing a lot on the

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Speaker 4: the problems that the head faces, but there's problems also

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Speaker 4: that the heart face is too in this. So you've

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Speaker 4: seen the Trump administration itself, which has been more protectionists,

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Speaker 4: also randomly deviate from protectionism when it seems inconvenient or difficult.

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Speaker 4: And if this is the right approach according to the

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Speaker 4: Trump administration, then why is it suddenly cutting tariffs or

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Speaker 4: on certain goods or with certain countries. And maybe this

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Speaker 4: is a preview of we'll get to later, but why

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Speaker 4: is it suddenly agreeing to better trade relations with countries

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Speaker 4: like China? In certain ways the contradictions that protectionist state

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Speaker 4: might be a good place to start for free traders

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Speaker 4: to start making a better case for themselves.

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Speaker 1: I think that's interesting and one of the points when

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Speaker 1: you say that there are factories you can easily see,

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Speaker 1: but what about those benefits to free trade that you

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Speaker 1: might not recognize and connect That would fit along the

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Speaker 1: lines of what the late nineteenth century economist philosopher Frederic

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Speaker 1: Bastiat would say is the difference between the good economists

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Speaker 1: and the bad economists. That the good economists sees beyond

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Speaker 1: that which is seen, and also sees that which is

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Speaker 1: unseen and acknowledges and talks about that. And that's just

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Speaker 1: such an important point when you're talking about anything economics.

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Speaker 1: But you raise a very interesting point too, which brings

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Speaker 1: us to an editorial yesterday or the last couple of

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Speaker 1: days in the Wall Street Journal entitled Trump says chips

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Speaker 1: ahoy to shijen Ping an example of where that protection

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Speaker 1: finess inclination might bend just a little bit.

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Speaker 2: What's going on there with the chips in Nvidia.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I find this very strange because I would say

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Speaker 4: that the strongest argument that protectionists have is that China

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Speaker 4: in China's place in the international trade system is a

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Speaker 4: serious problem, that it has committed genuine abuses, that its

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Speaker 4: government is still really acting to undermine other nations economies

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Speaker 4: in a way that really complicates having a real free

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Speaker 4: trade system. But you'd think that the protectionist president production

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Speaker 4: as administration of Donald Trump, would see this and kind

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Speaker 4: of reserve its antagonism towards China. But in many cases

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Speaker 4: it's actually launching trade wars with countries that we need

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Speaker 4: on our side if we're going to take on China.

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Speaker 4: And in the case of the Nvidia chips that we're

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Speaker 4: talking about, it has just agreed to a deal to

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Speaker 4: sell these chips, which are probably among this country's greatest,

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Speaker 4: most unique economic assets to China. In exchange for a

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Speaker 4: twenty five percent cut for the US Treasury. And I

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Speaker 4: find this very strange because this is essentially a way

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Speaker 4: that we're compromising one of our chief economic and arguably

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Speaker 4: national security advantage advantages. Visit each China for what exactly.

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Speaker 4: I can't really see the payoffs, and so I find

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Speaker 4: this very strange by the Trump administration's own logic, that's

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Speaker 4: doing this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the editorial for the Journal says, we sure

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Speaker 1: hope mister Trump isn't doing this for Nvidia's twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent tax payments to.

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Speaker 2: The Treasury, like that would be the purpose of it.

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Speaker 1: The Constitution, the editorial says, best taxing power in Congress. Yet,

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Speaker 1: mister Trump is essentially trading national security for pennies on

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Speaker 1: the dollar. And that really is, Dak Butler, a striking

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Speaker 1: contradiction between what the administration purports to wanting to do

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Speaker 1: and what they are doing, in this case, for potentially

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Speaker 1: just money coming in to the federal Treasury, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I'm not much of a fan of any

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Speaker 1: kinds of deals with companies, whether it's in video or

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Speaker 1: let's buy a percent get a percentage of ownership of Intel,

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Speaker 1: or some of these other companies under the guise of

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Speaker 1: where the government's going to make a profit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like I said, it doesn't quite make sense on

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Speaker 4: the drum administration's own logic. But also, and this is

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Speaker 4: almost forgotten about now, which is unfortunate. I think there's

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Speaker 4: a very strong case what I'm persuaded by, that this

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Speaker 4: kind of executive centered deal making, especially when it comes

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Speaker 4: to tariff stuff, is unconstitutional on states. I mean, it

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Speaker 4: is true that the United States in its history has

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Speaker 4: used tariffs. There are tremendous debates about them in the eighties,

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Speaker 4: bost says, the ninety eighties and the eighteen eighties. I

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Speaker 4: should say this is a part of our economic history.

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Speaker 4: But those debates were to a considerable extent happening in Congress.

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Speaker 4: But now Congress is just kind of along for the

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Speaker 4: ride in a way that I don't really think fits

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Speaker 4: with our economic system. So yeah, I'm uncomfortable with this

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Speaker 4: kind of deal making, even when terrorist are involved, because

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Speaker 4: it seems to be all running through the presidentcy itself,

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Speaker 4: and that seems like a recipe for arbitrary policy making

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Speaker 4: that won't really make anyone happy.

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Speaker 1: Ultimately, one final thing, if you can share a thought

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Speaker 1: on this is the twelve billion dollars that the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration announced they're going to do for farm or bailouts.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't help but remember my study of

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Speaker 1: history from the Great Depression and how that was the

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Speaker 1: way that FDR decided to address farmers in the surpluses

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Speaker 1: that they had was I'm going to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: we're going to we're going to ask you to not

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Speaker 1: produce more food, and we're going to bail you out

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Speaker 1: with this money going to you. Only in this case,

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Speaker 1: it's all entirely self induced. This is the impact of

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Speaker 1: some of the tariffs on the products where you have

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Speaker 1: the retaliatory terrifts from China and others. So we can't

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Speaker 1: get soybeans or other products to China or other countries

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Speaker 1: as a result. And so now the solution is what

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Speaker 1: paying farmers?

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Speaker 4: Jack Butler, Yeah, this seems try to follow the logic here.

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Speaker 4: So we impose tariffs, get money from the tariffs. The

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Speaker 4: tariffs imposed costs on farmers, so we use the tariff

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Speaker 4: money that has hurt farmers to provide restitution to the farmers.

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Speaker 4: I feel like this is a very secuitous route that

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Speaker 4: could have been avoided by not imposing the tariffs that

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Speaker 4: have hurd farmers. And when I was talking earlier about

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Speaker 4: there are many things that the United States, which is

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Speaker 4: still the world's largest economy, I mean we should remember

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Speaker 4: that we are still number one, and the world is

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Speaker 4: envious of us, that many people want to come here.

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Speaker 4: Farming is one of the things that we do better

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Speaker 4: than anyone else. And so it is unfortunate to see

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Speaker 4: farmers as one of the victims of these trade policies.

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Speaker 4: And I don't really think that this really, this circuitous

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Speaker 4: route to comment saying them is the way to help

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Speaker 4: them out in a sustainable fashion.

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Speaker 1: As I let you go, Jack Butler, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: read the very end of your column in the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journal this week, Confession of a cheap imports X Enjoyer.

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Speaker 1: But among my new items is a large bookshelf. It

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Speaker 1: took me the longest time to assemble, yet it fits

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Speaker 1: the space I needed it to fit perfectly. It just

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Speaker 1: so happens to have been made in the US. Was

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Speaker 1: that comforting a little bit?

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Speaker 4: Like I said, there's still that patriotism we all have that,

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Speaker 4: even if it's not always economically rational. People are more

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Speaker 4: than economic. So I'm comfortable admitting that or confessing it,

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Speaker 4: since that's the headline I gave that article.

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Speaker 2: So there you go.

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Speaker 1: There it is Jack Butler, Deputy opinion editor at the

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Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal. Always good to talk with you, sir.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for taking your time this morning. We

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Speaker 1: appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me once.

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Speaker 1: Again, Jack Butler with the Wall Street Journal adjoining us.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of the economy, there's some maybe encouraging news. Who

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Speaker 1: knows exactly from the economy standpoint of Colorado. Here's the

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Speaker 1: headline from the Denver Gazak Colorado unemployment fell in delayed

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Speaker 1: September report. It's improving the unemployment rate. According to the

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Speaker 1: Colorado Department of Labor and Employment, the state recorded one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty thirty four thousand unemployed people in September,

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Speaker 1: forty eight hundred fewer people compared to August. State's unemployment

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Speaker 1: rate falling point one percent to four point one percent.

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Speaker 1: The national rate a little higher than that at four

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Speaker 1: point four percent. The state released September's data on Thursday,

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Speaker 1: which was delayed by more than seven weeks due to

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Speaker 1: the federal government shutdown.

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Speaker 2: So that's one of the things.

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Speaker 1: We don't know exactly how we can pinpoint the state

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Speaker 1: and federal data when it comes to unemployment. Because of

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Speaker 1: that lag from the government shutdown, the employment data was

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Speaker 1: collected before the shutdown that ended up being the longest

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Speaker 1: in US history. The Department said that it would publish

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Speaker 1: a report for October's employment data because the government did

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Speaker 1: not collect household survey data during the month and will

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Speaker 1: not collect it after the fact. So, needless to say,

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Speaker 1: four point one percent unemployment rate. That's a slight downtick

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Speaker 1: from where it was before, which is encouraging. Here's the problem,

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Speaker 1: here's the rub. The policies that Jared Polis and the

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Speaker 1: Democrats are instituting in this more and more would be

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Speaker 1: absolutely detrimental to employment, to prosperity, to job growth, to

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Speaker 1: new business creation, and the latest thing that they want

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Speaker 1: to do and they just might get it on the

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Speaker 1: ballot in Colorado is put into place a graduated so

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Speaker 1: called progressive income tax. My column today in the Denver

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Speaker 1: Gazette is on that exact topic of the graduated income

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Speaker 1: tax and the deep concerns we all need to have

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Speaker 1: about it. This would be devastating, devastating for Colorado's economy,

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Speaker 1: and so much more. On the other side, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to break down the devil that is the graduated income

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Speaker 1: tax proposal for the ballot that would completely undermine the

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Speaker 1: taxpayer's bill of rights. That more come up on the

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Speaker 1: other side. Five sixty six nine zero the KOA Common

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Speaker 1: Spirit health text line, Keep them coming. I'm Jimmy Sangenberger

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Speaker 1: in for Michael Brown on KOA zero.

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Speaker 2: Six y one to two.

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Speaker 6: Here, Jimmy, I'm definitely free to trade, supporter and fan,

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Speaker 6: but not when the other countries have their own protections

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Speaker 6: like Canada and our dairy products, China and pretty much

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Speaker 6: everything Japan for decades having protectionists policies against the US.

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Speaker 2: They all cannot have that.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Jimmy Sangenberger, and for Michael Brown. I just want

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Speaker 1: to make one quick point in response to what you shared,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate it. Let's talk about dairy products in

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Speaker 1: Canada because this is a complete misnomer that I think

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Speaker 1: goes to a lot of the different claims about other countries'

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Speaker 1: protectionist policies. And not to say that there aren't, because

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Speaker 1: there are a hell of a lot of them, but

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Speaker 1: on the point of dairy I think that you have

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Speaker 1: this massive tariff on dairy.

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Speaker 2: That's what is it?

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 2: Two hundred percent?

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Speaker 1: Like it's outrageous, But you have to meet a certain

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Speaker 1: threshold of imports from the United States for that tariff

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Speaker 1: to kick in.

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Speaker 2: And guess what, we'd never do.

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Speaker 1: Literally, we have never hit that threshold for that high tariff.

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Speaker 1: So it's just the lower tariff rate that has been

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Speaker 1: the case for a long time. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: just important to recognize and a lot of times people

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Speaker 1: just point to, oh.

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Speaker 2: Dary, it's two hundred percent tariff on dairy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, after a certain threshold that we never hit. So

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Speaker 1: therefore that tariff is never paid at that level, not

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Speaker 1: by a long shot.

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Speaker 2: Now, as for.

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Speaker 1: Protectionism, to address protectionism elsewhere, if that's the objective, okay,

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Speaker 1: I can see that. Well, we want to reduce tariff

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Speaker 1: trade barriers or other non tariff trade barriers, but it's

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Speaker 1: hard to tell with any level of consistency what the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration is actually going for.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's revenue to the federal government, because we love

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Speaker 1: when the federal government gets money, right, we want to

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Speaker 1: praise and celebrate when the Feds get more money.

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Speaker 2: Not me.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to Sometimes it's well, we want to

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Speaker 1: reduce trade barriers. Sometimes it's we want to address the

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Speaker 1: trade deficit or the trade imbalance. Yet we don't have

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Speaker 1: a trade imbalance with some of the countries.

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Speaker 2: Quite the opposite.

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Speaker 1: If we have an imbalance, then it's because we're exporting

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Speaker 1: more to them than they're importing here because of particular

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Speaker 1: products or what have you. It can vary depending on

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Speaker 1: the situation. Sometimes it's, oh, well, we're trying to address fentanyl.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's we want to bring manufacturing back. Like, there

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Speaker 1: are so many different explanations for why these tariffs go

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Speaker 1: into effect. There's no consistency whatsoever that I can't agree

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Speaker 1: with the logic you're presenting, because it's not just about

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Speaker 1: protectionism against protectionism.

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Speaker 2: It's for so many different things.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it changes weekly, it seems, depending on the country. So,

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Speaker 1: like the last conversation we were having with Jack Butler

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Speaker 1: of the Journal, why are we allowing these chips, the

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Speaker 1: sensitive high level chip sales to China because the United

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Speaker 1: States gets twenty five percent? Like suddenly protectionism goes out

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Speaker 1: the window in this.

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Speaker 2: Particular case, to protect.

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Speaker 1: Advanced technology from the Chinese Communist Party because they're giving

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Speaker 1: twenty five a quarter of the revenue to the FEDS.

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Speaker 1: I just there's no consistent logic to it. Now today

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Speaker 1: in the Denver Gazette, my column and I published Tuesdays

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Speaker 1: and Fridays as entitled a progressive tax on Colorado's No thanks,

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Speaker 1: And it's about this new attack on Colorado's flat rate

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Speaker 1: income tax. Remember we have since nineteen eighty seven, when

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Speaker 1: voters put it in place, we have had a flat

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Speaker 1: tax in Colorado. Everybody pays the same percentage in this

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Speaker 1: case it is four point four percent. But now it's

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Speaker 1: under attack, and if the perpetrators succeed, voters will be

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Speaker 1: opening the gates to trojan horses disguise as fairness, priorities,

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Speaker 1: and progress. Aren't those such nice, warm and fuzzy words.

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Speaker 1: We want fairness, we want progress. Well, after two failed

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Speaker 1: attempts to get approval for signatures, because that's the first

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Speaker 1: step you got to get signatures to get on the ballot,

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Speaker 1: there's a thing called the title board, and the title

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Speaker 1: board evaluates is this a single subject? Does this follow

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Speaker 1: the rules?

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Speaker 7: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Okay, then you move on.

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Speaker 1: Well, they provided two versions of this, the proponents that

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Speaker 1: failed the title board. Now this third time the charm

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Speaker 1: third times of the charm situation here. The measure would

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Speaker 1: replace the flat tax that we've again enjoyed in Colorado

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Speaker 1: since nineteen eighty seven, when the state abandoned graduated raids

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Speaker 1: for a single across the board system. But now these

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Speaker 1: progressives want to drag us back to a graduated disaster.

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Speaker 1: In the immortal words Dragon Will like this in the

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Speaker 1: immortal words of Star Wars.

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Speaker 2: Is Admiral Akbar. It's a trap.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, Colorado's current universal tax rate is four ero point

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Speaker 1: four percent.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, this.

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Speaker 1: Would amend the state's constitution to allow for graduated tax

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Speaker 1: rates and create the graduated tax rates at five different

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Speaker 1: brackets to start. Now, it's billed as a tax break

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Speaker 1: for lower and middle income people because under one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars in income, you'd pay four point two percent

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Speaker 1: instead of four point four.

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Speaker 2: So it's a nice little tax rate cut for you.

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Speaker 1: But for everybody up to five hundred thousand dollars, it's

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Speaker 1: four point four percent.

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Speaker 2: Like now, that's the trap they.

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Speaker 1: Want to suck you in by saying, well, most Colorados

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Speaker 1: make less than five hundred thousand dollars, so go ahead

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Speaker 1: and vote for this because it's not going to affect you.

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Speaker 1: Once you get above five hundred grand, it hits seven

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Speaker 1: and a half percent. Then once you're above seven one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty th thousand dollars, then it is eight

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Speaker 1: point five percent, and then once you're a millionaire, nine

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Speaker 1: and a half percent. That's for individuals, for couples, businesses alike.

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Speaker 1: Of course, a graduated income tax means it's a marginal

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Speaker 1: tax rate.

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Speaker 2: So your first one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Is tax four point two percent, the next four hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars is four point four percent, and so on

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Speaker 1: than anything above a million gets taxed at nine and

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Speaker 1: a half percent. Now, supporters call it progressive because the

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Speaker 1: rates progress from low to high, and that's progress toward fairness.

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Speaker 1: But frankly, this is not fair. It's quite the contrary.

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Speaker 1: Right now, it is fair everybody, regardless of your income,

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Speaker 1: is the same rate. That is fair four point four

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Speaker 1: percent for everybody. So that means, in a hypothetical someone

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Speaker 1: earning seventy five thousand dollars pays three grand in tax,

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Speaker 1: well making another making two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: pays eleven.

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Speaker 2: Thousand dollars both at four point four percent.

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Speaker 1: More money paid by the wealthier person, but the same percentage.

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Speaker 1: That is fair, it's simple, it's straightforward, it's pro growth,

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Speaker 1: easy to plan all of that. But well, dragon, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go there. I'm going to say this next line,

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Speaker 1: which I write in my column today because it was

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Speaker 1: inspired in my mind by Yoda, and that's because that's

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Speaker 1: the kind of nerd that I am.

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Speaker 7: But once we start down the graduated path, complexity, confusion,

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Speaker 7: and capital flight will forever dominate Colorado's destiny.

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Speaker 2: Not bad, is it?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: That's pretty good? All right, good?

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Speaker 1: So on paper, it starts with five bracket ironers get

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Speaker 1: hit harder at first, but more brackets in the future

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00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: will be easier for voters to prove. Not because they

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Speaker 1: necessarily realize it or are all on board with it,

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Speaker 1: but it is much less of a of a sticking

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Speaker 1: point in your mind.

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Speaker 2: If we're all paying four point four.

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Speaker 1: Percent and there's a proposal to jump it up to

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Speaker 1: five point four percent, it's obvious.

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Speaker 2: Right, everybody's doing it. But if you say, well, we're just.

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Speaker 1: Gonna take the fourth bracket, so the amount from seven

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand to a million dollars is gonna

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00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: be taxed at nine percent instead of eight point five percent.

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Speaker 1: Well you might go, okay, I'm fine, I guess I

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00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: guess that makes sense. Lolled into passing that. But then

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00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: there's the boiling frog scenario. Voters won't feel the impact

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Speaker 1: of each incremental taxic until it's too late.

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Speaker 2: Look at California, look at New York.

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Speaker 1: And this also does an index for Ana, which is

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Speaker 1: a silent tax. Over time, you will be sapped more

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Speaker 1: and more because the percentage stays the same, so they

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Speaker 1: don't need to go to a vote of the people

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Speaker 1: to raise the tax. But they're bringing in more money

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Speaker 1: because of inflation. And then of course they earmark this

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Speaker 1: money that comes in to fund education, healthcare, childcare, and

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Speaker 1: workforce programs. It's just a little more next down the line,

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Speaker 1: we just need a little more to help these programs.

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Speaker 2: Well, guess what.

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Speaker 1: Not only does that create permanent constituencies for these particular

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00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: interests that want to see taxes go up, but the

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00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that this proposal would allow

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Speaker 1: the government to keep all that money instead of it

481
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: basically allows you to dismiss all the taber caps, because remember,

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00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: on the Taxpayer's Bill of Rights, not only do we

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00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: get to vote on what a whether or not to

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Speaker 1: raise taxes. Not only does it protect and ensure a

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Speaker 1: flat tax, but it also says as the government can

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00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: only keep so much money, and anything above that has

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00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: to be returned to the people that goes away. And

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00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: there's more that's pernicious. Read my column for the additional details.

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Speaker 1: We got to run to the break a progressive tax

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Speaker 1: on colorad In's no Thanks in the Denver Gazette. I'm

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00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: Jimmy Sangenberger here with you in for Michael Brown. It's KOA,

492
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: stay with us.

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Speaker 3: I love Carolyn Love. It's takedown of Caitlyn Collins and

494
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 3: asking about the inflation, and Carolyn just tells them that

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00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 3: her predecessor stood up there and told them that there

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00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: was no inflation and the borders were closed. But reporters

497
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: just took her at a word and didn't do an

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00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: investigation on their own. And what Carolyn tells them has

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Speaker 3: facts behind it, and they keep questioning it. So ironic.

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00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: Jimmy sanging Berger in for Michael Brown. Here on KOA

501
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: bring in some of the best bumper music known to man.

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00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: The best Christmas bumper music.

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Speaker 1: No to man, I should add and I have to

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00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: as I was listening. Now that's Alexa leaving the talk

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00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: back and yeah, Caroline Levit, I don't have that clip

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00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: to share, but I was about to share. It's perfect

507
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: timing you are reading my show prep materials.

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Speaker 2: She does that, alexis creepy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I've got something else about Caroline Levitt to

510
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,239
Speaker 1: share and some audio. But you're absolutely right. She's so

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00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: good at that, and that was fantastic. Listen to this

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00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: one where they're ask about the Obamacare subsidies and she's like, well,

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00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: let me just remind you who's actually responsible for the

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00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: expiration of these enhanced premium subsidies for Obamacare.

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Speaker 8: As for the subsidies that are set to expire, I

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00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 8: would like to remind you and everybody at home why

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00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 8: this is on the brink of happening. Democrats wrote Obamacare,

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Speaker 8: they passed it without a single Republican vote, and then

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00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 8: they ballooned it with these expensive COVID subsidies that completely

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00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 8: distorted the health insurance market. And then they doubled down

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00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 8: extending those subsidies and setting their own expiration date right

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Speaker 8: now in twenty twenty five, which the administration is obviously

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Speaker 8: well aware of, and we are working. The President is

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Speaker 8: working with his healthcare policy team here at the White

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00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 8: House as well as Republicans on Capitol Hill to find

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Speaker 8: a solution.

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Speaker 1: Game set match, I mean, absolutely brilliant. I don't have

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Speaker 1: enough time to play this other clip now. Maybe in

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00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: the next hour we'll get to it where she talks

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00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: a little bit about solutions and reminds again how Democrats

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00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: created this problem. Look, Obamacare was created by the Democrats.

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00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: In twenty ten. I was in college hosting college radio

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00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: at Regi's University on KRCX ninety three point nine, The

534
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: Real Deal, talking about how much of a danger it

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00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: was going to be and how expensive healthcare costs and

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00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: insurance would be with Obamacare. And now here we are

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00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: fifteen years later, and that's what's happened, and the Democrats

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00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: have done jack fill in the blank to address it.

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Speaker 1: Brilliant by Caroline Levitt. I'm Jimmy Sangenberger here with you

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00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: another hour up ahead, as I'm filling in for Michael

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Speaker 1: Brown on KOA