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Speaker 1: In ten minutes. I won't make you eight that long.

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Speaker 1: This is ESPN fifteen thirty onm Oeggers. So it's now

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Speaker 1: draft season. The Combine starts draft season, and obviously you

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Speaker 1: know free agency here we hope is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: big deal. I'd be stunned if it's not. But we're

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Speaker 1: starting to form opinions about prospects and we've done the

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Speaker 1: whole arm length thing and folks are starting to pour

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Speaker 1: through mock drafts. I'm excited to do this. So Grinding

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Speaker 1: themocks dot com is a website and I'll put this

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Speaker 1: and I think the most simple way possible, and its

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Speaker 1: founder is going to join us here and he can

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Speaker 1: correct me. But what I like about Grinding the Mocks

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Speaker 1: is they kind of look at all the mock drafts

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Speaker 1: so I don't have to because I'm lazy, and there

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Speaker 1: are so many of them. And so what they do

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Speaker 1: is they kind of help set, for lack of a

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Speaker 1: better way of putting it, expectations for how the draft

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Speaker 1: is going to unfold based on a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: But all the good reputable mock drafts are are part

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Speaker 1: of their data collection and kind of what they use

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Speaker 1: to help set those expectations. I'm now just like throwing

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Speaker 1: out their word salad. So let's bring on Benjamin Robinson,

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Speaker 1: who's a Cincinnati guy and is with he runs grinding

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Speaker 1: themox dot com kind enough to join us here at

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Speaker 1: the end of the week. It's awesome, have you Benjamin?

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great, mo, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate you doing this. Did I kind of nail it?

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Speaker 1: Or did I screw up? And talking about grinding the

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Speaker 1: box and what it does?

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Speaker 2: He did pretty good overall. You know, what I'm doing

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Speaker 2: with grounding the MOX is trying to make draft fans

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Speaker 2: smarter and more evidence based in their assessmance of players.

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Speaker 2: You know, it comes from uh, you know, me listening

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Speaker 2: to you know, draft broadcasts and saying, what the hell

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Speaker 2: does mel Kiper even now does he does he ever

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Speaker 2: want a draft strap and saying it's it of you know,

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Speaker 2: asking what is Todd McShane though, has he ever wanted

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Speaker 2: to a draft strap? Collecting data from a lot of

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Speaker 2: different sources and using the wisdom of crowds to come

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Speaker 2: up with what I call expected draft position, which gives

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Speaker 2: us a better insight into where we seek players actually

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Speaker 2: go in the draft.

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Speaker 1: How much does expect a draft position change from this

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Speaker 1: time of year to two months from now.

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Speaker 2: It's going to change a lot. Right now, as you

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Speaker 2: said before, you know, we're we're still living in a

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Speaker 2: pre free agency world, and so that's going to change

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Speaker 2: some things. We're just now getting this combined data which

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Speaker 2: is also going to shake up things a little bit.

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Speaker 2: But also as to get closer to the draft, that's

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Speaker 2: that's when the best quality mock drafts come out. So

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Speaker 2: in my data right now, we're ranking mock drafts, you know,

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Speaker 2: not super highly. We're about you know, two months from

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Speaker 2: the draft right now, so you know, when we get

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Speaker 2: to the draft, we're going to be waiting those mock

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Speaker 2: drafts a lot higher. And also making sure that we

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Speaker 2: were looking at who makes those mock drafts and giving

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Speaker 2: credit to the Dane Bruglers of the world and not

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Speaker 2: to the Benjamin Robinson's of the world. Like when I

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Speaker 2: do my mock draft, I assess my mock draft in

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Speaker 2: the same way that I assess Danes and make sure

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Speaker 2: that I rate his mock draft appropriately and then push

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Speaker 2: down my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Are there some theme as they relate specifically to the

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Speaker 1: Bengals that are starting to emerge that we acknowledge still

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Speaker 1: may change based on a lot of different things over

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Speaker 1: the next seven eight nine weeks.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, so on grinding tomock dot Com and my team

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Speaker 2: chart section, I have charts and what I call weighted

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Speaker 2: mock draft shares. So that's taking that same concept that

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Speaker 2: not all mock drafts are created equal and taking those

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Speaker 2: weights so that we're up, you know, weighing up mock

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Speaker 2: drafts that were made closer to the draft and weighing

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Speaker 2: up mock drafts that are made by experts, and eighty

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Speaker 2: five percent of the mock drafts that have been published

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Speaker 2: so far for the Round one for the Bengals have

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Speaker 2: them targeting some type of defensive player, whether that's you know,

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Speaker 2: safety Caleb Downs from Ohio State who's number number one,

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Speaker 2: you know, the defensive tackle Peter Woods from Clemson, or

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Speaker 2: you know your flavor of edge rusher like Auburn's Keldric Fock,

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Speaker 2: Texas texts David Bailey, or Miami's Caleb Downs. So you know, defense,

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Speaker 2: as everyone in town knows, has been a theme the

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Speaker 2: last two years and continues to be a team. The

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Speaker 2: beatings will continue and Phil Morale improves.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned Caleb Towns, right, and there's a great argument

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Speaker 1: about positional value versus you know, I mean some have

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Speaker 1: him as a top three player in the draft, which

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Speaker 1: if he plays another position, he's gone well before the

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Speaker 1: Bengals are on the clock. But he does play safety,

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Speaker 1: it's not regarded as quote a premium position. How often

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Speaker 1: have you seen him going so early that as the

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Speaker 1: Bengals are getting closer to being on the podium with

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Speaker 1: the tenth pick, it's not even something they even have

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Speaker 1: a chance to think about.

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Speaker 2: So right now, in my data, he's the seventh overall

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Speaker 2: ranked player, and so obviously we know the Bengals are

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Speaker 2: picking at ten. So there's some upward pressure on his

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Speaker 2: rankings and my data, and that comes from some other

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Speaker 2: teams that are probably going to be really interested in

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Speaker 2: his services, you know, in terms of the top teams

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Speaker 2: that calm sorry that Caleb downs is mock to Bengals

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Speaker 2: are number one, But like I said, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: if they're ranked number one if a team selects him

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Speaker 2: before them. And so you know you're seeing teams like

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Speaker 2: the Commanders and the Giants where there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: interest in him. And obviously you know when they picked

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Speaker 2: before the Bengals, and so there's a decent chance right now,

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Speaker 2: in my day, I'd say it's about a two thirds

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Speaker 2: chance that he's uh, that he's even that he's gone

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Speaker 2: by that time. So you can wish. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: it's going to happen, And so that's why you want

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Speaker 2: to be showing people the data to say, hey, you know,

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Speaker 2: when we're there on the clock, they may not even

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Speaker 2: have that choice. Here are some other options about players

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Speaker 2: that can really help the Bengals next year on defense,

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Speaker 2: or maybe they'd go Google offense. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: they still could use another offensive lineman to round out

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Speaker 2: that group.

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Speaker 1: Check out grinding themox dot com. Benjamin Robinson is is

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Speaker 1: with this. Has there been a wild change based on

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Speaker 1: knowing specifically for Reuben Bain, knowing specifically how long his

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Speaker 1: arms are?

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Speaker 2: So right now, my site still shows data for before

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Speaker 2: the combine, and I do that on purpose. I think

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Speaker 2: it's really important to have that sort of set expectation

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Speaker 2: of what we thought about a player before the combine

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Speaker 2: and then what we thought about after the combine. So

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Speaker 2: I won't update the site with new data for about

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Speaker 2: a week or so. But in my current pre combine data,

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Speaker 2: he has about an average expected draft position of five

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Speaker 2: and a half, which pushed him as my third ranked player. So,

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Speaker 2: needless to say, people who watch the tape know that

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Speaker 2: he has these physical limitations. People have talked about this

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Speaker 2: for a while. There were some rumblings that some teams

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Speaker 2: didn't even view him but as a pure as rusher,

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Speaker 2: despite that's where he played and had a ton of

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Speaker 2: success at Miami. So there was even some rumblings that

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Speaker 2: some teams thought of him more as a guy who

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Speaker 2: was play inside, who you know, wouldn't have to, who

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Speaker 2: could kind of go into with his power and really

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Speaker 2: make an impact on the interior. I think he's probably

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Speaker 2: gonna be doing a little bit of both, and so

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Speaker 2: the moment that people start viewing at him as a

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Speaker 2: sort of more of like a hybrid player and less

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Speaker 2: of a pure edge rusher, you might be able to

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Speaker 2: see what teams might be wanting to do with Reuben Bain.

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Speaker 2: But he is so powerful, so he's less of like

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Speaker 2: a overall speed rusher and more of a power rusher,

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Speaker 2: which when you look at ed rushers in the NFL

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Speaker 2: on how a lot of them win. The good ones

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Speaker 2: really actually do win a lot more with power than

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Speaker 2: just with speed. And I think David Bailey, the ed

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Speaker 2: rusher from Texas Tech, who is franked fourth overall on

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Speaker 2: my data now Bengals Frandsoul probably also love to have.

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Speaker 2: He's more of that traditional kind of win with speed

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Speaker 2: rather than that kind of power rusher that you see

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Speaker 2: in Bain.

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Speaker 1: We're obviously very early in the process, but from a

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Speaker 1: Bengals perspective, specifically, what are we learning about some of

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Speaker 1: the expectations for them Day two and three?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Day two and three is a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a different story. When we start looking into the day

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Speaker 2: the second round picks for the Bengals, you still see

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Speaker 2: ed rusher as a team. So you know, when I

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Speaker 2: look at, you know, the top dresser that Bengals are

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Speaker 2: being mocked in the second round, because you know, I

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Speaker 2: collect thousands of mock drafts, and some of those mock

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Speaker 2: drafts go much further than just first rounds. You see

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Speaker 2: somebody show up like Illinois ed rusher Gabe Jackass. So

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Speaker 2: he had a really great Senior Bowl. If the Bengals

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Speaker 2: decided to go, you know, let's say they wanted to

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Speaker 2: go linebacker or safety or offensive lineman like I said,

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Speaker 2: or maybe even cornerback, which is a position that they've

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Speaker 2: been mocked pretty frequently as well. They could go as

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Speaker 2: rusher of the second round with a guy like Gabe Jackets,

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Speaker 2: and if they decide, you know, and this is what

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Speaker 2: these decisions are like. The questions you have to decide is,

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Speaker 2: you know, when we go for a player in the

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Speaker 2: first round at one position, what does that position look

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Speaker 2: like in the next round. And you see the Bengals

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Speaker 2: do this kind of stuff all the time. Teams have

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Speaker 2: to deal with this all the time. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I go back to that Jamar Chase pine Seul decision,

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Speaker 2: and so teams are going to look at, okay, we're

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Speaker 2: interested in this position. Well, when we're picking again in

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Speaker 2: the next round, what does that position look like? So

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Speaker 2: you know, if they decided to go edge rusher in

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Speaker 2: the in the second round with a Gabe Jackis, then

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Speaker 2: in the first round they could do something different. And

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Speaker 2: so similarly, you see a player like USC safety Kamari

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Speaker 2: Ramsey show up as a guy who could be of

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Speaker 2: interest to the Bengals if they decided to go safety

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Speaker 2: in the second round, given their need at safety. So

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Speaker 2: those are a couple of names when I see, you know, edge,

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Speaker 2: rusher and safety show up so much in first round

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Speaker 2: mocks that if they're going a different direction, Bengals fans

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Speaker 2: might want to start getting used to some of those

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Speaker 2: names as alternatives.

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Speaker 1: Since you've been doing this, where has been the the

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Speaker 1: widest difference between where a player was expected to be

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Speaker 1: drafted and ultimately where he was selected.

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Speaker 2: Oh strae Door Sanders. I knew though, yeah last year. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so last year, you know, I my data, my public data,

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Speaker 2: you know, was in line with what a lot of

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Speaker 2: people were saying about Shador, which was, you know that

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Speaker 2: they thought that he would be going into Pittsburgh and

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Speaker 2: with their pick and the you know the thing, it

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Speaker 2: was like twenty third or something in the first round,

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Speaker 2: and he didn't go there. And yeah, he fell and

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Speaker 2: he fell and he fell and he fell, and even

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Speaker 2: the most advanced models, you know. So I was just

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Speaker 2: in Indianapolis with the Combine and I was talking to

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Speaker 2: you know, a team and I asked him, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was talking about my data and my insights and

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Speaker 2: where they had Shador and they said, you know, there

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Speaker 2: was only so many times we could tell our you know,

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Speaker 2: the general manager that the probability was zero that he

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be here. So you know, he was

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Speaker 2: the biggest foller in recent memory. Before that, it was

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Speaker 2: Malik Willis the year that there was only one quarterback

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Speaker 2: drafted in the first round with the Steelers, you know,

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Speaker 2: taking Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis. Who's now? You know,

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Speaker 2: the bell of the ball of free agent quarterbacks shows that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the life in the NFL is long. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: Chador was. It was really unexpected. You know, even my

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Speaker 2: more advanced numbers had him in the like late first,

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Speaker 2: early second round, so I was surprised. I was surprised

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Speaker 2: that he was. He was still over there in the

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Speaker 2: fifth round. At a certain point, I thought maybe the

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Speaker 2: best might want to take a gander on that, but

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Speaker 2: it seemed like it probably would have been more trouble

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Speaker 2: than it was worth, giving the same sort of rumors

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Speaker 2: about him in Baltimore that Baltimore was interested in inflecting him,

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Speaker 2: and he told them that he wouldn't like that because

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Speaker 2: he wanted to be in a place where he could play.

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Speaker 2: And you know, he made a Pro Bowl. So you

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Speaker 2: know what else we have to say that's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he did. He did a Pro Bowl. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: did Joe Flacco this year. So do what you want

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Speaker 1: with that. And here's my request. The week of the draft,

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Speaker 1: can I bring you back so we can kind of

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Speaker 1: see where things are at that point relative to where

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Speaker 1: they are right now and maybe set some expectations for

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Speaker 1: draft weekend.

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Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah, and the data will be a lot more

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Speaker 2: rich and interesting and yeah, the storylines evolve, and that's

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I love doing this. It's

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Speaker 2: all about the stories and the journeys of these prospects

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Speaker 2: as they go from college to pro and the data

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Speaker 2: does a really good job of telling that story.

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Speaker 1: That's Ben Johnson, the website grinding themox dot com on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at grinding Mocks. Awesome conversation. Man, We'll do it

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Speaker 1: again as we get closer to the draft. I really

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Speaker 1: do create at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no problem, Thank you, mom.

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Speaker 1: You got it. I appreciate it. Cincinnati native Bengals fan

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Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, grinding the moockx dot com. I became familiar

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Speaker 1: with his website reading a piece in The Ringer last

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Speaker 1: year right after the Shador Sanders thing went down the

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Speaker 1: way it did, and they used him to sort of illustrate, like,

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Speaker 1: here's where everybody thought that guy was gonna go, and

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Speaker 1: look at the difference between where he was expected to

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Speaker 1: be taken and ultimately where he was taken. All right,

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Speaker 1: as promised. Sports headlines are a service to Kelsey chev

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Speaker 1: LA home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval

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Speaker 1: from their family to yours for life. Kelseeshev dot com.

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Speaker 1: Reds are playing the Angels right now in Goodyear. They

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Speaker 1: have played six and a half. LA leads that ballgame

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Speaker 1: four to two. Rehet Louder started for Cincinnati pitch well

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Speaker 1: when three innings, did not give up a hit walk

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Speaker 1: the guy struck out three. Julian Aggiar gave up three

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Speaker 1: runs and his two innings of work offensively. The highlights

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Speaker 1: include a good day for jj Blade two hits, he

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Speaker 1: has scored a run, Jose Travino is driven in a

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Speaker 1: round he has two hits, and Reese Hines has a

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Speaker 1: triple again for two Angels, Reds getting set to bat

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Speaker 1: in the bottom of the seventh inning. Those games are

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Speaker 1: always weird because both teams were red college basketball. Tonight,

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Speaker 1: Miami puts its undefeated record on the line. On the

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Speaker 1: road tonight, taking on Western Michigan. Miami won the first matchup.

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Speaker 1: That game was at Mallett Hall, won by eleven points.

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Speaker 1: Tip Off is early tonight at six pm. Also Tonight,

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Speaker 1: Dayton's at George Washington, the Flyers looking for a fifth

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Speaker 1: consecutive win. Tomorrow, Xavier hooks up with Georgetown, a pair

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Speaker 1: of teams that are each five and twelve and Biggies play.

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Speaker 1: Musketeers won the first match up. Tomorrow's tip off is

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Speaker 1: at one thirty. XU trying to break a three game

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Speaker 1: losing streak at Cooley's team trying to break a five

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Speaker 1: game losing streak. You see hooks up with Oklahoma State Tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: That game tips off at two pm on seven hundred WLW.

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Speaker 1: The Cowboys are seventeen and eight, five and ten in

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Speaker 1: Big Twelve Play. Kentucky battles Vanderbilt. Commodores whipped Kentucky in

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Speaker 1: the first game by twenty five. Tomorrow's game tips off

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Speaker 1: at two o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty. Also in the area,

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Speaker 1: Louisville's at Clemson at two o'clock. NKU plays its final

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Speaker 1: regular season game tomorrow against Wright State. That game at

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Speaker 1: NKU tips off at seven pm. I rolled through the

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Speaker 1: scenarios before, but just in case you didn't jot all

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Speaker 1: this down, the Norse can still get a home game

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Speaker 1: in the very confusing Horizon League Tournament. The Norse need

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Speaker 1: to win tomorrow and get a Detroit Mercy loss and

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Speaker 1: get a Purdue Fort Wayne loss and get a green

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Speaker 1: Bay win. That I mentioned that a Green Bay win,

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Speaker 1: a Detroit Mercy loss, and a Purdue Fort Wayne loss.

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Speaker 1: That's what the end. They got to win tomorrow. Lots

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Speaker 1: of stuff has to happen. Hopefully it does. Sunday, Ohio

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Speaker 1: State takes on Purdue and Indiana battles Michigan State. Both

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Speaker 1: the Buckeyes and the Hoosiers could badly use wins against

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Speaker 1: really good teams this weekend. FC Cincinnati and Minnesota tomorrow

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Speaker 1: at four point thirty. That game is on the Project

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Speaker 1: one hundred point seven and one oh sixty three, and

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Speaker 1: the Cyclones played tonight on the road against Fort Wayne

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Speaker 1: and then home tomorrow for Kalamazoo Skyline Chile three way

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Speaker 1: Jersey Day, and then an afternoon game on Sunday against

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Speaker 1: Kalamazoo as well. Uh, there you go, there you go.

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Speaker 1: Five one three, seven, four, nine, fifteen thirty. Uh, take

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Speaker 1: some phone calls. I guess eleven away from five o'clock.

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Speaker 1: This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports.

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Speaker 2: Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 3: Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center at UC Health.

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Speaker 3: They never miss a beat. Your heart shouldn't either. If

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Speaker 3: you have signs of a cardiac rhythm disorder, don't wait

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Speaker 3: to be seen. Schedule online at ucehealth dot com. Northbound

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Speaker 3: four to seventy one. The off ramp now reopen to

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Speaker 3: southbound seventy one on both the truck and the debris

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Speaker 3: now removed from that ramp. Southbound seventy five between Western

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Speaker 3: Avenue and Ezrad Charles drive an accident onto the left shoulder.

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Speaker 3: Two minute delay going through there. I'm at exelic with traffic.

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Speaker 2: This report is sponsored by the Tudor Dixon